Harsh Truths About Working in the 3D Industry
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- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2024
- In this discussion, we are talking about the harsh truths of working in the 3D and art industry. It's an amazing place to work, but there are things nobody talks about, which we're discussing here.
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I'm 51 and have been working in the 3D Industry since1998... I rememeber times when there was no GI, no Area Ligths, no HDRI, no Ambient Occlusion, no geometry subdivision. It was really difficult back then to coax decent looking visuals out of a renderer. It's so much easier now, you can literally create anything your imagination can conjure.
Tell me about it John, my interior 3d renders back in the mid-90's (of a reception desk) had something like 30-50 lights, all there to fake all what you say ! Yes, I developed a great skill back then, and my visuals were truly best in the industry, but when I returned to CGI in the mid 2000's, GI was a completely weird feature, it took quite a while for me to get my head around it. Now of course it's easy peasy :)
Man even musicians get tired of making music and it becomes a job so I understand whacha mean but nothing compares to having your creations be out there and loved ❤️
I have been doing 3D art for 10+ years now. I have gone freelance, from home. People don't realize that you can do this. And I hire ppl to do repetitive work like modeling and UV-s, tech stuff so I have the fun parts like working in Substance. There are thousands of indie studios that hire low and average skilled guys as well, so anyone can do 3D art, if they want.
You don't want to do mundane stuff as well? Then you gotta put in the time and be very good so you can hire others to do this for you.
Hey, I'm new to the 3D art, I'm really looking for a mentor and someone who could just show me the right direction. Please let me know if you're interested
@EXODST I don't think anyone really cares. If you can do the work you can do the work. Get your portfolio out there and let your work speak for itself.
@EXODST yeah, that's what I do, your portfolio says more then a paper
Can we communicate through email please?
@@ghassanjneinaty4421 sure, where can we talk?
Love the part about being self-taught, that's the key to keeping your workflows and understandings of the industry fresh. I've had teachers who are stuck in the past and it sucks. Keep an eye on GDC talks or comic-con art presentations, whatever you can get your ears on, any insider industry information on how so-and-so did project-x. Have people you follow who are pushing the envelope, that will keep you from slipping behind on how great 3d work is accomplished. Even if you work in the industry you should be keeping your ears perked about what is the next evolution of workflow or tool. What is going to save you time or make your life easier? Any advantage you can take, you have to try and at least explore the options. This is how you stay present within the 3D/Art industry. It's an industry of art built on technical tools, and the tools are always evolving. Don't be afraid to revolutionize yourself often.
Perfectly summed up - thank you! You hit it.
One of the reasons I love working at a small studio, is the greater variation in work. It's hard to get burnt out, when I switch between rigging, modelling, texturing, animation etc. I don't get extremely skilled in any of it, but I'm a lot more involved in the final picture than at a larger studio.
Where you at now?
Where do you live)
Victim of the "wow that's awesome!" here - all through school until I graduated. Really hard to come back to "reality" after all that time.
Damn, is it really that bad?
@@emeritus3136 Yeah. I mean, at least for me it was. It's the coping part that sucks the most - when you're in school, you never learn how to avoid comparing yourself to people who are better at art, because there *is* nobody better to compare yourself to. But then, once you're an adult and you leave school, you're suddenly exposed to all these amazing artists, and you have no idea how to shut off the comparisons. Additionally, after being "propped up" for so long, and being told you're amazing, based on the quality/skill of everyone else's art around you, it can be real disheartening when reality no longer seems to reflect that. It's a pretty steep and stressful learning curve.
I'm in a similar situation right now, I'm not from a particularly artistic background. Art has been a hobby but not part of my academic life until now that I'm in uni. No one around me is particularly artistic so I've always been more or less praised for it, while now that I'm in uni I find that everyone is at a similar level of mine so it is definitely a wake up call.
Guys this stuff applies to nearly EVERY Industry in the "creative field".
Graphic design suffers from all this And more. ( like even lower pay! ).
The only advice I can give. is to get Good , and find a studio that values your skills.
Because every studio is geared dif and you will go nuts trying to fit into all of them.
Some want grunts, some want amazing Zbrushers. It depends where you are at.
It's creative problem solving at best.
The BEST thing you can ever do is to learn to sell your stuff. Don't spend your life trying to
make someone else's dream come true. Make your own art / game /music and so on.
Yes indeed! This is not just about VFX - it applies to all jobs.
Thank you, your comment really inspired me.
I can't take you seriously with that name.
*Don't spend your life trying to make someone else's dream come true. Make your own art / game /music and so on.*
I will mark these words in my wall or something :D
you can't compare graphic design and 3d........get two graphic designers, one junior and one senior.....give their portfolios to an untrained eye, it becomes a guessing game.....now on the other hand, the gap between junior and senior 3D artist is tremendous, you could ask your grandma which portfolio is junior and which is senior, she will get it correctly every time.
I've been watching your channel for quite some time now and I just want to say; Thank You. Your videos are exactly what I need in my life. However, this particular video and content is literally what I needed to hear today. As someone looking to transition into the Animation field after spending the better part of a decade in his current field; a lot of us get tunnel vision and believe that the grass is greener on the other side. This brings video brings things back into perspective and vision without perspective is reckless. Keep up the great content and keep the truths' coming; regardless of how harsh they may seem.
Hi Tom - thank you so much for your very considerate and kind words - we really appreciate it! Best of luck to you transitioning into the animation field.
/Henning
I was one of those students who was praised in school for his work then I got out and reality hit me in the face. I think one of the problems specially in school is that they need their customers, so if they started being comepletly honest with feedback lots of people will fail classes which will drive students away from the program. I am not defending this, I am just saying that is how it is. Once I got out of school and started getting proper feedback I improved a lot and faster
TechYK just a fun comment on this:
When I studied 3D for games at uni, we got a new teacher the second year. She failed EVERYONE in class at the first course she had. I sort of fell in love with her after that. If it wasn't for her, I think I would suck a lot more today:) she made us work hard.
I had the same problem in school too. And I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that they don't get too many extremely interested students that are willing to go above and beyond rather than just pass the course. So when they do get someone like that, the teachers themselves get a bit overexcited and over enthusiastic and tend to put that person on a pedestal because it is so rare for them to see the majority of the time. That was my experience anyway! :)
Yep, that is exactly how it was. I even won awards in my school for my art. Then I got out and the truth hurt. Nothing against my school, I learned the basics, but after that it was mostly search online
This is why I respected my strictest professors the most. But unfortunately, it is the students who gave them negative reviews and complained to the school about how hard they are that would turn them off from being a teacher who is serious about our growth and instead more worried about keeping their job as teacher.
Well that may be how some of these bad schools like full sail or art institute are, basically a machine to pump out students. I went to University of the Arts and if you didn't keep your grades up you were OUT.
I work at a Triple A video game studio. It was my dream job until I actually got the job. Turns out I'd rather play video games than make them.
same.
is it really that bad?
I feel the same after few years in it.. Repitative 😅 that's how I ended up watching them.. But I don't complain I love flipped normals and their talks are like therapy to stay in the field
I'm at 24 min into this video laughing my ass coz i'm actually a blacksmith for a living learning how to sculpt on Zbrush for a hobby!
that's metal
@@Ma_genta bruuuuhhh
"In a parallel universe..."
A guess better stay a blacksmith ))) great profession.
wow
this is really what I needed!
I post my art on social media and show it to my friends and family and all of them appreciate it and say it’s amazing but the next day in my class when my teacher who is in the industry as of now gives me feedback on my work and asks me to redo it, it’s disheartening to hear because of the praise I received which helped me build up confidence making myself think that oh wow I’m actually improving
sometimes when my work is perfect or up to the mark it isn’t attractive to the audience as it’s not something amusing but the details and everything on my work is better than anything I have made before!
I have come across my friends loving what I have made but not my teacher as it isn’t what was supposed to be done
It really does not matter how many people like your work but who likes you work!
This channel has so much good content, and it's all free knowledge. Thanks for putting out good information out there that a lot of us pay for otherwise. Very good to watch alongside currently studying in Animation.
ive interviewed people with work that once you dug into it , asked questions about how they did it , was barely their work . they were very confident though . work to real world restrictions , time limits , tech limits . you cant work on an amazing character for six months when the reality is you'll get 3 months with lots of iteration , revisions to fit the skeleton , heirarchy , master shaders and all that stuff (its all beyond me to be honest) ... ive been doing games for almost 30 years. everything ive done couldve been better in a non working environment , but get deadlines , put it in game engine , ensure things are adaptable and reality kicks in.....
doing character work ? ... learn anatomy , muscles etc , clothing design , fabrics .. ... in terms of 'behind the scenes footage ' .. entire characters can be remade , scrapped , environments changed and re-lit , dropped as the gameplay for the location is no longer achievable ... get used to feedback and changes thats not the fault of your own ability ....
environment work ? learn the mechanics and collision requirements for the main player to traverse the environment ... making an awesome piece of environment is great but if the climb heights / jump heights are wrong it'll need a lot of fixing...
I'll stop now...i'm sure thats enough... expect long hours , highs and lows ..... but it can be very very rewarding too.
Thanks!
It really helped. After 6 years I never looked into what I'm doing as a job before. And right before watching I was in questioning phase. You got a subscriber. Thanks
I feel ya
This is why 3d is my hobby and programming is my job. I have spent 4.5 years on a car model I'm still passionate about blender specifically
isnt programming just as difficult to learn
@@topy706 yes. but it pays better. on top of that (depending on the country ofc, probably not applicable to USA) there is often more jobs around for programmers vs 3d artist. in my country i literally see the same 10-15 job offers for weeks for 3d modelling jobs. In UK for example if you search for 3d artist jobs on linkedin you get about 180 results, but if you search for Angular or React jobs you get 2500+ results. so more demand and better pay, while being as hard.
However, maybe I am biased, because I am a burned out 3d artist who is currently switching over to programming so that my reasoning - the same amount of effort but for a better pay and more job stability/security due to higher demand (vs always feeling fear of being thrown out of the company because the project ended and being scared of how long it would take to find another 3d artist position)
@@ergohash2517 good porn animators make a shitton of cash, the popular ones make anything from 4-10k a month. if i was serious about a career in that field thats what i would do, either r34 porn or find another popular nieche like making tabletop maps/3D figurines people can print, theres alot of money to be made
@@ergohash2517 also you're not constricted to shitty pipelines and you can work in blender, not outdated software like maya or zbrush
This is really good to hear. I've been wanting to really get into the game industry as an artist. My eventual goal would be to have my own studio. But it would be great to actually talk to people more about this kind of stuff.
hey, guys, I'm just a 19-year-old student doing my bachelor's in animations here in Dubai I'm in my 2nd trimester so I'm pretty new on the board and every day since my trimester 1 of college I have been seeing you guys for a while now and I get so motivated when I hear you guys and when you do things here on this platform. Thank you so much, sir.
as someone who is going into the 3d industry, this helped clear alot of douts and fears i had, thank you so much for this
Fantastic episode as always and can't wait to hear the one about overtime. You guys are killing it with all this content!
I just found your channel, and I am loving all the videos so far! I find it so great that you do put out tutorials as well as discussions on anything regarding the 3D industry. Keep them coming! in regards to the discussion of this video, I really appreciate all the sincerity and your thoughts on the reality of this. It is for sure a wakening moment when you get to feel like its a job and not just playtime doing cute things. But regardless of that moment of realization, you can still find lots of moments of joy and achievement withing your personal growth and the kind of projects you can get to work on. Also the importance of getting feedback on your work, true honest feedback from artists you find have a better understanding of what they are doing is so important! So one can actually improve on their skills and grow as an artist. I feel sometimes young and upcoming artists are vulnerable as to getting honest feedback, that they rather just ask someone that will praise and will be kind, instead of actually pointing things out that can be improved. It's part of a learning process to not take feedback too personal.
Hi! Thank you so much for your kind words - we really appreciate it!
I also really like the point you're making here too - It really is a process which takes time to learn. For sure took some time for myself.
/H
Hi there!
I'm Liam and a fellow modeller (currently in previs!) about 3/4 months ago I gave a lecture at a London university which pretty much covered all the points you guys mentioned in this video. It's so refreshing to hear two experienced artists like yourself cover these topics as well, I love your channel and what you guys are doing with it! I look forward too more!
all the best!
Liam
Great video! I work in games, and I went through the same thing where I had to realize this was a job. In fact, for me, i ended up switching fields from illustration to ui to start enjoying work more, which I could have never predicted as a student.
As a current animation student, I feel really lucky to have great professors with recent experience. We regularly critique projects in class and they always push students to do their best. The program even offers a career prep class that I cant wait to take in another semester or two.
loving this channel. great stuff to listen to while you work. Keep it up guys!
Droppin truth bombs guys! Props.
As a former teacher (before I even had industry experience) I can totally confirm that teachers are the worst source for feedback.
It's so interesting to hear you say that you are learning new things and forging at a smithy. It's my opinion that innate artistic people seem to be insatiable about art and at one point begin to search for new mediums. I'll be teaching myself to spray paint during my paternity leave :D
Just finished another 60 hour week, can't wait to see your video on overtime.
lol 60 hours man i would be in vacation with this!
@@petertremblay3725 hope you're working for yourself
@@MatthewsWd0 7 days weekly 12 to 14 hr daily since the past 10 years with no vacation! Yes i know i am a fool! And yes i am an indie game developer.
@@petertremblay3725 it's time to start investing.
Hey :) I've been a video editor for pretty much 13 years now, I love editing. but yes.... it is very much a job, totally agree. there are days where i'm literally logging hours of footage, I do art and character designs for games as a hobby and interact a lot with the indie community, its a really good way of getting my fill of "doing super cool video game and art work" without relying on it to make a living. so that's my way of looking at it. so far i'm happy with that, i'm doing a job I like and the HOBBY is something that can earn money from time to time, but I never get jaded by it. :)
I find this talk incredibly grim and for anyone reading this, please ignore most of it. To be truly successful, you have to ignore most of the things being talked about here. I currently work at Blizzard and it certainly wasn't easy to get here but I can assure you that, if I actually considered all the negative aspects being talked about here, I would not be were I am. Optimism and creativity should be a happy marriage. Be an adult and handle the challenges that may come and continue to be that creative force you believe yourself to be. Studios will eventually see your value but think of them as experience for greater things that will eventually come your way if you maintain a healthy level of awareness.
This may seem random, but do you think you could offer some feedback?
www.artstation.com/danielmitchellart
You seem like a naive fool. The exception to the rule. I’ve survived multiple layoffs. That changes your rosy glasses.
@@danielmitchell2463 hey dude that barbarian sculpt is awesome
@@projektraven4149 Thanks so much. :)
@@danielmitchell2463 anytime m8 keep up the good work
you guys are super cool, I enjoy listening to your discussion
"At some point EVERY job is just a job" is 100% true and also the first time I have heard someone on youtube stating it. Great down to earth talk with a lot valid points. Something more people need to hear early in their career.
Thank you - really appreciate it! It's a harsh truth to accept, but the earlier you do, the better.
As an engineer, I've been a bit jealous of the art careers because you get to hone your craft during work. However I could see how you might not want to take up Art as a hobby if it's your 9-6 job.
What kind of engineer are you?
Data Scientist here and I totally agree. The grass always seems greener on the other side - especially the art side, lol.
Oh, I used to do 2D art commissions for a source of income, not even something as a real job, and it was just... it changed my way of thinking that I am STILL trying to get over, which is "should I even do personal art, is it a waste of creativity, time, and a potential customer's money to do something for myself or my partner as a gift?" and it really burnt me out creatively. I loved drawing so much, I think I'm at the very least a higher intermediate artist now, and I still would never work a job that I would have to draw for 8-10 hours a day. I would never be able to do it for myself if I am creatively spent from my job.
Yeah, so any job is still a job, feedback must be honest to be valuable, It's just that simple. I think you guys nailed the main points.
I think it's important to always be improving your craft to not get stale, and also keep looking at other areas you might be interested in, just in case you need a break sometime (maybe not a hard-braking-industry-changing jump in careers, but maybe a sidetrack into a different specialization). Otherwise comes the burnout.
Looking forward to the overtime discussion. Lots of talk about it and the bad treatment of artists in the movie industry. Would be nice to hear what you can say about it.
I love your videos. And I laughed so hard and nearly spat my coffee all over my keyboard when you said Podcast-Land and when you were talking about the behind the scenes "Look busy." XD
:D hah! Happy to help.
As a student, I completely agree with your assessment of over confidence creeping in. I've had to definitely focus more on learning the software, techniques, and developing my artistic style to get good enough to apply to jobs, which will be a ways off because I know that I'm just scratching the surface. What I want to ask is since you two are free now, would Flipped Normals possibly offer a few workshops to help aspiring artists develop the skills to break into the industry.
Im at Texas A&M College Station and as some of you may know it is pretty popular for attracting big companies. However, I recently began to realize how important it is to hone your craft. Most universities, especially this one, do not do that too well, teaching us a wide variety of softwares and disciplines but never allowing to focus on just one or two. Self teaching and practice imo is the best way to improve and get notice. It is rare that schooling alone will be enough to prepare you for the industry.
I'm glad you guys are able to do this full time now! You were talking about not being able to get honest/good feedback. I bet people would pay to get a professional review of their art from you. It would be worth it if you went into detail. Hell, a guy could start a company if they recruited people specifically employed/qualified in each area. I'd pay $20 for a paragraph on one asset if I *knew* the person reviewing it was qualified. $50-100 for a general assessment of all the work on an art station portfolio.
Hey Tyler! We've actually been toying with the idea of making a FN mentorship where we can properly give people feedback :)
I think this is a great idea, I and im sure lots of others would definitely pay for this as long as the price wasn't stupendously high. I would say it would be quite successful, you could even upload the videos of you critiquing the portfolios if the artist agreed to it as that would be very useful to watch.
Hey guys, Ni hao! (How's the Chinese going?) I just found your channel. I work in the film / VR games industry in Taiwan and you had me laughing (and crying) at the 9 till 6 working day. No doubt it's a tough industry but it's also a fantastic job. Thanks for your videos!
This discussion is right down my alley since i am a 17 years veteran in 3d game development and in these i was 3 years as an Art director in well known studio in Montreal and 7 years as a teacher in various college and currently on an indie game project. First thing that come to my mind is that 99% of the studio are own by people from the boomers generation and they exploit the naive side of young wannabe artists and they are all mostly underpaid while the studio owner swim in millions!(big studio of course). When crush time come it is the closest thing to slavery you can see in modern time and here many studios don't pay them the overtime but just the regular hours wage, the trick is to order pizza and give them a room with playstation in it and they never complain. If you are an indie developer everybody in the industry will make money except you the crazy developer whit no social life working 7 days a week, the asset sellers get paid, the software corporations will get paid(outrageously), the game channel will get paid but not you the indie developer. If i could get back in time i would slap my self in the face so i stay away from the 3d industry and if you are young then be warned and try something that will let you have a minimal decent life or else you will spend endless time in front of a screen missing the real life out there. Also keep in mind that your generation don't have for long before societal collapse due to resources dwindling and habitat destruction and if you think i am crazy then you will quickly see in the next 5 years that thing are going to go south.
People should seriously enjoy what's left of the relative peace we still have at least in country like Canada and a few others because the change are going to be so quick and drastic that no one will be prepare to deal with it. Some scientists are ringing the alarm since a few month but no one want to listen, food supply is getting dangerously low and crop failure are growing because of rogue climate.@Sasori Tobi
Agree with you and we had so much potential as a specie but we decide to commit collective suicide with the wrong decisions. There is some great people doing their very best but they are unfortunately a minority.
@@petertremblay3725 global warming is a hoax
@@user-jd1hy9bg1d No you are a hoax !
@@petertremblay3725 yes all is in a way, me and you included, but the global hoax is a scam.
Awesome channel ! I'm about to jump in the industry (now that my Demo Reel is done), and this is what I needed to know. Thank You FlippedNormals
I'm 42 and I struggled to get inside the industry back when I was young. One thing you mentioned that i liked was how getting 200 likes on Facebook isn't the best way. I'm glad that you said that cause I felt that in order to be the best, getting 200 plus likes was the goal, it isn't. There was a student who was pretty good with his 3D and so far, I found out he isn't working in the industry. The other problem is that is who to trust in your network. That's the other issue. I'm still not in the industry, but I found myself doing better on my feet. There is a lot to learn on my end when it comes to 3D and I am not even sure if I am ready. :)
Great information, guys. When speaking about which software to learn for the industry, etc., of course it will all depend on what feild you're specializing in, but outside of Motion Graphics I would suggest that having a good familiarity with Zbrush is a must these days. Zbrush is used in so many genres of 3d, and in so many different facets of a pipeline, it's almost a staple in the 3d industry now. Would you guys agree there? For example, I've been to studios using Maya as the primary workhorse software for modeling, rigging, and animation and a couple which focused the pipeline around 3dsmax. However, the one thing all these studios had in common was they all used Zbrush at some stage of the process. In fact, many of them used it for everything up to the animation and rigging stations. Have you guys seen the same penetration of Zbrush in the larger studios?
It differs from studio to studio. Ubisoft primarily uses 3DSmax, Zbrush and the Substance Suite if I recall correctly. Many of their artists are also familiar with other tools including Blender. I have used Rhinocerous 3D, Hexagon, Maya, 3DSmax, Lightwave and Blender and a wide variety of other supporting tools. These days my weapon of choice is Blender, it has come a long long way from what it was in the '90s and if you haven't had a chance to look at the newest iteration 2.80, it is worth a good look.
I think you briefly hit on an important point and that's the sacrifices involved. I've seen a lot of industry people suffer low wages compared to the cost of living where required (industry jobs are typically in the most expensive places.) They do a lot of OT and depending on the studio that's often not paid. Both these things make it nearly impossible to enjoy other aspects of life such as having a family that would be attainable doing another job in a less expensive place. I think it comes down to searching deep to know what you really want in life which is often very hard to do at the age you make that decision.
Hi guys, just dropping by to say that I love the content you guys are creating on youtube!
My question is, are there any plans for the future to create game art related contest as well?
6:00 yeah! In my area most graduates from 3D and all of that IT courses ending up teaching new wave of students and not even making anything at all. And in those rare cases when they do, it looks like stuff is from 1996 at best. And I not mean good '96, it's pretty average even by 96's standards.
Bohdan Lvov I discovered that myself just watching all sorts of blender trainers on YT. They're pretty average, which makes me shocked since they know so much...
Chri AAtor at least they're free. Those courses I'm talking about is payed and you'll get the diploma after it.
Chri AAtor Well that's sort of a case of getting what you pay for, free training is a luxury regardless of the end result being medicore. This is an industry that hasn't had such good learning opportunities for long, go back to before youtubes huge growth of tutorial content and it was a nightmare to learn for free from home to even a fraction of the same level of knowledge that you can today.
Bohdan Lvov, I'm guessing those students weren't working as hard all the time, as they could have benefitted. Good guidance and discipline included
It's a fun job, but even my buddies that work at Pixar will tell you it's just that, a job. Manage you expectations and don't let yourself get exploited.
Great video. I went to a tech college where the teachers had some industry experience. Later on. I tired a community college where the instructor was self taught. He pushed the students harder, and got better results. The self taught teacher was more straight forward with constructive criticism.
I guess this video really applies to every job. The points in this video should be relevant especially to students in the field, these could be things that really make or break career plans.
I found out the same when I re-trained as an artist and took a dive into the creative industry. Most times if not always, you are creating and realising someone else's dreams. Or, even worse if you end up in the wrong place, nobody's dreams, only mass-produced 'creation'. Depending on talent and practice it might be 5, 10, or 20 years, or never, before you ever get to decide how a film/game looks like, if that's ever a goal. For me after the realisation, I reached for the big red EJECT button and returned to my day job designing real airplanes. Since, I was getting no better sense of achievement and a fraction of the pay. I still keep up with practice, but probably won't return as a job as I still prefer working on my own ideas.
All these thoughts may be a little naive for seasoned artists (or should I say, workers in the creative industry). But for those who haven't stepped into this industry there are bound to be such overtly positive expectations.
17:44 You get to move around? I've been working in 3D for 16 or 17 years. I think the most I've ever been able to move is an hour train ride into the city.
7:34 it's a competitive field, yet MANY times, MANY, MANY times, the most skilled artist is overlooked for an average artist because the leads on the team are intimidated by someone coming in with more skill! This happens a lot at service studios! I knew 2 supervisors at a big game studio who passed on an excellent reel outright! Despite the reel showing that the modeler could work on their games. Thankfully the modeler ended up at a better studio! Sucky people do end up in positions to say "yes" or "nay" to an artist applying. So it doens't always come down to skill here.
Seems like that might be an extremely rare occurrence
I don't get why they would fear the skillful artists they were looking for in the first place... to me it makes absolutely no sense.
@@hyperdrive5777 Maybe they look for good artists but not better than them. It happens in other fields as well. My boss got pissed when he hired slightly more talented programmer thn him ,
its not intimidation, it is a bad idea to hire someone above your budget and then have them walk out on you for a bigger studio shortly after, having then to go back to screen people again. Mid tier hires mid tier.
@@j.2512 you'd be surprised. I remember reading in 48 laws of power how often a boss will avoid hiring or favoring an underling whose skills are greater than their own. This is especially true when a team or project lead does their own hiring. The moment someone under a bad boss starts to show too much potential they fear being replaced. This is ancient group psychology. It makes the hiring process difficult because you want a 3D artist to hire your 3D artist, someone who can tell a good demo reel when they see one, but you don't want it to be someone who would feel threatened.
I have a question. For making characters would I have to do modeling texturing unwrapping and rigging all by you?
A very good video as always guys! But, you simply grazed one of the more important subjects, in my opinion, in which I would actually love to know more. How to find a mentor, if your school doesn't help you find one, or you don't go to school for art. I know that what you say about Facebook groups, for the most part, is true, although sometimes people there actually give constructive feedback. So finding someone who actually criticizes your work and evaluates what you do with the industry standards seems very important. Thank you again for the great content, keep it up!
I’ve worked as a concept and comic artist my whole career... At least 25 years at this point. And trying to explain to someone it becomes just a job... people really don’t understand. Like you’ve said, I am so grateful for the career I have had, but it still gets to the grind panel after panel after panel of talking heads, page after page after page of the same designs trying to find the right one for an idea the person who had he idea doesn’t really know what they’re looking for...
It’s amazing work, of course... but it’s still a job... and like all jobs, it gets to the point where it’s maybe not enough, so you branch out to new things. I a, here because I m currently learning 3D modeling to add new work to what has become stale work... I want to be able to flesh out what I do in a new way, and so I want to be able to 3D print my own work. But I already know, at some point, this exciting new skill... will become another part of the flow.
It’s just the nature of work...
thank u guys for this. i graduated college a year ago and didnt realize how unprepared i was, equipped with the stuff i learned from school. it wasnt until my last year my capstone teacher set me straight. wish i woulda seen Flipped Normals a year ago
Thank you! Much appreciated. What kind of stuff do you wish you knew back then?
FlippedNormals Just about everything! But seriously the power of Zbrush, substance painter, any sets of classes dedicated to 3dsMax. To even have known Mari existed, or the Rookies. We were only taught Maya, basic navigation of Zbrush and Unity at school and had just one Substance Painter class. I basically have re-self taught myself everything from school through channels like Flipped Normals and others
I get burn out from time to time, i have learn to just accept it as part of life, its gonna happens with anything you will do in life. Just make sure you go out, do something different, learn new things and comeback to you thing. Remember for something to be magical it needs to exist other things that are not so much magical, you have to experience both to appreciatte it.
Another Exactly, thank you for sharing your thoughts
I'm currently in school for 3D Art and I've noticed that the instructors have two different ways of doing critiques. There are the "You are the Golden Child" critiques that are pretty much what you guys said. Then, there are the "Your work is absolute garbage, fix it" critiques that come later. These are the critiques where the instructor looks at your work, points out all of the flaws and then tells you that you should have learned not to do this a long time ago, why didn't you use this tool that you've never heard of, and dammit this is simple stuff!
Have you done that talk about working overtime and weekends :? I'd really like to hear about it! If so, where could I find it?
You nail it. Industry makes big dreams come true and in the same time, kills the creativity.
In the 1800's with the industrial revolution everyone wanted to go to work in a fabric working, because screwing nuts and staying inside (not out in the field) was really cool, today it's a bit more complex than screwing nuts, but get repetitive as well.
This is why computer graphics as an artist/modeller is just a hobby for me and my primary focus is computer graphics as a programmer.
It's always a big pleasure to see your videos, thank you for them. Hope its wont become a routine for you :D
About the model in the video, the mouth specifically , how did you bake it right even when the mouth closed?by cage? Or did you open the mouth first ,bake ,then edit the mesh to close it ? Btw this video is really good ! Nice video !
been practicing cinema 4d for a month now, learned a lot, but there's still a massive load of information to learn, haven't even started with plugins yet
On the same boat too! Lol
You guys are awesome. I'm a modeling student and this was a really good listen.
LOL!! Yeah...so true, glad that you made that video. I worked for a big Game studio, got bored to death, then went back to school. People in school were like "Dude, you left that job to go back to school". My answer was: "Yeah man..after a few years you realize it IS just a job, might be super fun most of a time, but at the end of the day it is just a job". I did have my share of "Look busy" while recording behind the scenes as well. That part was so funny.
Hey guys! im really interested lately in the 3d world, and especially in the character modelling part. im just curious that if i want to work in the industry where should i start to learn good basics, what i can use later on, or should i go to a school?
ahaha, this is crazy accurate!! I have been in the film and game industry for 13 years, from my experience also, you guys are bang on.
Thank you for the information, its been really helpful, especially the talk on burnout and working in your spare time/having a hobby. I've always been in the mindset that I need to keep improving and work on personal art in the evenings after work, or on the weekends. The problem is that it becomes very easy to burn out, not to mention your life becomes about work, there's no balance, so you may start to question if this is really for you. I've definitely struggled with overworking in the past to improve and when I didn't feel like doing it in my spare time, I get that horrible dread of "well maybe this just isn't for me anymore, I should do something else".
Dedicating every waking minute to it can be great if you're obsessed with it, but that can also backfire without any life balance and make you feel more resentful of the craft, so being able to do what you love for your career can be a blessing and a curse. Sorry for that uber wall of text, its just something that is rarely talked about and usually addressed with "If you feel unmotivated, just make yourself do the work," when in fact some people just need some more balance in their lives.
TL:DR: Its all about work/life balance!
Thanks for your comment, Phil! Really appreciate it. Youre so spot on here. At the end of the day, it becomes a job and you need to find your work/life balance.
One statement hit me in particular - get a hobby besides work. That really hit me hard. (I'm very new to the industry) You are right but you speak form the standpoint of an established professional artist. Currently every minute I spend with my other hobbies like gaming, watching movies or even hanging around with friends feels wasted. And that feels terrible I tell you that. But at the same time it feels like I've absolutely no time to waste I have to get really good as fast as possible to get my claws into the industry and finally fully make a living out of this.
Honestly, it's a really fine balance to hit. In the beginning it might be worth sacrificing some of your social parts of life if it can seriously improve your career, but it's all about finding the balance :) Good comment, thanks!
Not sure what I enjoyed more. The talk or the texturing video.
Thank you! Really happy to help out :D
@FlippedNormals Great video! As I would expect from the guys at FlippedNormals. You guys say Harsh but I feel you're actually being nice & telling us the honest truth. The ones who are harsh, are the ones who don't tell you the honest truth in my opinion.
I actually like the fact, where you talk about working in a 3D industry as a job & not neglect everything else. Like having hobbies, having fun outside of work. :) You need balance in life, even if you work in the industry.
I love playing Badminton with friends on weekends, at least once a month. :)
Does Morten really like Avocado on toast?
Wow starting since you were 15-16 yrs old really is a good way to have gotten a thorough handle on the CG medium before entering the industry. About young entry level professionals now - I was worried that was the case. I think I am one of the harshest critics of my own work even though I have general encouraging comments on my work even from employers who hired me, i know i have a lot to learn to be at the level I need to be to land my desired jobs more consistently. Yet we have to find a job... and its scary 5 years after college, still not meeting the standards of the jobs Im applying to. Im totally aware that I dont quite match up to the requirements yets I give it my best shot. Time and learning technical challenges and artistic feedback is the biggest challenge. and focus- as a 3D generalist. I love what you said about realizing the struggle and the behind the scenes effort put into getting to the next level vs looking at hilight reels- the end results. I agree it is just a job sometimes, and dont mind doing mundane tasks even if its merging vertices of a wall- yes its still something to enjoy -because its part of our profession. Sometimes the non-glamorous tasks are a relief to me on others, since I am more confident I can do technical clean up sometimes, rather than showing my design skills so its a nice balance sometimes.
You guys are so wise and I wish someone would have told me all this 10 years ago
I know i'm a decent draftsmen and a 3d noob, but even tho i receive positive coments an attention, i've made a habit of not losing sight of the quality present in the work of people who have jobs in the industries i'm interested in. That has always kept me grounded and focused on the level I need to have to feel comfortable with my own work.
I helped my classmates a lot in the end of the second semester of 3DDA at Noroff. It definitely started feeling like work then.. but I like working with 3D, 2D, and now programming. Haven't found a job in this industry yet, but keeping an eye out while working on some personal projects.
Nice Ruben! It's really helpful to help others, as you learn a lot. How was your experience at Noroff? I've heard mixed things about it.
I really enjoyed it, and I'm thinking about giving it a try on making tutorials here on RUclips as well! Don't have ZBrush anymore, and can't really afford it at the moment. But that was mainly what I helped my class mates with as some of them had a harder time wrapping their head around the program. The past 1,5-2 years I've been teaching myself Blender, and now especially with 2.8 coming out later this year, it's starting to look really good.
About Noroff, the first 12 weeks when we had Modeling, Texturing, and Lighting & Rendering weeks in that order for 4 cycles was probably when people was the most enthusiastic. When the rigging, animation, and character creation came along in the second semester people starting to slack off, but who can blame them. Learning rigging and doing manual key frame animation is really tedious work... xD I don't think this was the teacher's strongest field either as some weeks he had vacations and they had to hire in some comics artist, which didn't really know what we were doing, but tried non-the-less to explain us how to create interesting characters. At the end of the year we didn't have any education really, the goal was just to make the animations for the final assignment of the semester and for out portfolio. It felt like a letdown when we had to use Low Max or Dee Rig after creating and rigging our own characters.
Honestly I’ve had a bit of a parallel story to the narrative being told here, I was constantly being pushed down by my lecturer telling me to find or chase a different section of games design (I was really into character art) And while I understand my stuff back in late 2018 wasn’t great, I didn’t end up listening. I really started improving around early 2019 without anyone’s help or feedback, just looking at YT tuts. While I could say I was pretty arrogant about my own skills, it was only fabricated because of the way I was constantly comparing myself to my previous work. It’s definitely a good thing to compare yourself to actual professionals and chase their level of work. But self-drive is super important, just making sure to recognise your own level and skills and what you need to aspire to is one of the good things you can do. I’ve definitely improved but I know there’s still much to learn.
I think in videos like this the inevitable question will always come up "Do I need to get a degree in game art for this, do I need to go back to school or complete some online game art program to land a job" etc...
Before I answer that please bear in mind that the people you are competing against probably went to school specifically for Game art, to study 3d modeling, environment art etc... and they will also have portfolios. So the question you have to ask yourself is: how confident are you in your portfolio alone when up against someone who went to school/got a degree in game art and they also have a portfolio- and if you are confident that your portfolio alone is enough to get a job then yeah forget/screw school.
It was really nice to listen on the background, can you do a series about stuff like this ?
I'm glad i'm on par with what you're saying in this video. I'm getting ready for it to hit me full blast in the face when I finish next year
man, even I'm finishing up next year and the way people are speaking about this industry I think I should stop taking 3D this seriously. Thinking of some other option I guess.
100% agree with you guys, this is another great video from you. Thanks !
the video in the background is also a lot helpful!
the hard thing of having professionals in the teaching field, in our country (mostly) is that they choose to stay in the industry field because they can earn higher than teachers/professors do, so having a teacher with industry experience is great, but suuuper rare.
I am getting into modelling as a hobby. Making things in VR is so fun
What is a good site/platform you suggest to post arts and receive feedbacks to improve? :) great video as always!
Artstation is great for posting your art. For feedback, I'd really recommend finding a few people you trust and then asking them for feedback. Know that they know what they are talking about and then get their honest opinion on your work.
Our Discord is also pretty good. You can find a link here:
hub.flippednormals.com/
thank you so much!
I'm naturally very talented and I gave up 4 years ago, and don't regret it at all. You don't 'have' to follow your talents if they make you miserable.
Hey guys, couldn't agree more! lol .. people often fail to understand why i dont work in studios anymore, and this definitely touches on why. For me it's more about quality of life and pursuit of realizing my own ideas. Some years ago i worked for a very well known company, and one my supervisor said to me; "if you keep this up, you'll be here in 10 years just like me" .. while he meant it as a compliment, it was a terrifying realization; i left the next day lol These days i'm doing my own thing, building my own content and working more in pre-production; this is definitely where the fun side of the film work is! :) Touching on your earlier subject of finding good sources of critique, it's important to find a good, long term mentor, establish a relationship with someone in the industry who can be there to give a little one to one feedback every now and then. I had this early in my career and definitely helped, and since then i've mentored a number of artists who have gone on to have very successful careers. Maybe some kind of mentorship matching making could be a thing for Flipped Normals one day! .. and the topic of overtime LOL ... OH YES! learn to say NO! .. your health and family comes first! .. the stories i could share!!! LOL
I had a similar moment, about one year into my first job the manager asked me to do a change to a seniors image while he was gone. I had no idea and he gave me shit after shit for it, called me in to his office and berated me. I sat there knowing this guy can’t do what I do yet he was giving me shit for it so I gave my notice the next day. They kept me there for 3 months before they let me go and the two weeks later asked me to work freelance for two weeks, that turned into 4 years freelance work before I asked to be hired full time again (to get a house) but it really made me realise how fucked these managers or even seniors can be without the talent and skills of people like myself. I really can’t wait till I know I can make a living freelance.
Great video! I'm just wondering, do 3d modelers also have to make reference art or that's provided to them?
Not really
I used to work as a level designer but the long hours, very little pay and no job security eventually just got to be too much for me. I suddenly realised I just wasn't even enjoying it. So I am now quite happily out of the industry and I even started a new hobby ... going out with women. Turned out that was a lot more fun than decimating meshes.
read & heed
This video is still so down to earth. Thank you so much.
Look at this great thing I did... oh yeah that‘s a great thing you did 😂👍🏼
Great video guys, can really relate from my first experiences in the VFX industry!
6:31 Was it full sail?
When I need feedback, I always tell the person I ask to "be mean about it." "Tell me what is wrong with it I want to fix flaws and I can not fix the flaws if I cannot find them."
I wish I could at least find a decent job doing 3D stuff. Here where I live. It sucks. Just doing 3d stuff for events. And it's boring as hell. Nothing related to 3d gaming industry. Plus is pairs poorly
But in my spare time im working in a portfolio, to try luck out there and hopefully be able to move abroad.
Jhono Gudiel any tips on finding even the boring jobs ?
keep your chin up and push on mate.
I'm in exactly the same position. Except I have a family to feed too :/ and that's tough as shit.
Hard work pays off
I would have thought a job like this it doesn't matter where you live? You can just work remotely from anywhere and send people the files over the net?
IGarrettI I don't know bro. Just send some CVS. The problem here is that they'd make you work until midnight and get paid around 300 USD. I wouldn't want that for you.
MateiTheMachine damn sigh. At least you've got a family to fight for bro. My girlfriend just left me and that's been rought. But I get you. Keep pushing, you too bro. Chin up
I think i spent way too much time laughing during this video you guys are great!
Sooo, best way to live from 3D is have normal job and use 3D like hobby where you create stuff to sell online and make people buy it ?
Haha, pay for your day to day while growing your sculpting skills so you can ultimately figure out a way to make a product from your sculpts and sell them. That is a very entrepreneur thing to say and is indeed a very good way to think.
No I think the message here is for people to understand that it is a very saturated field and you have to keep improving yourself in order to make it, but also that it can get stale if you doing for to long so the best thing to do is find different hobbies
And be stoked when you make £10 a week on the catalogue of 100+ items you’ve spent 500+ hours making where you could have earned £5k in overtime at your day job.
@@Chris-jo1zr Wow, is that what it's like?
I make 3d animated safety videos (ah, the glamour) and we buy in a fair few stock models which are generally of an exceptional standard.
I always wondered what the reality was for the people who make them.
I suppose that when you make a model, you're never really sure if it's likely to sell and it's basically a punt.
My work is all set on oil rigs and generally very specific parts so pretty niche I guess.
@@yancowles I think it depends on the item and use obviously but almost every website offers tiered subscriptions so when I sell items on Adobe Stock I can earn anything from $1.20 to 0.38 per download depending on what subscription the buyer has, I imagine it's much worse for people on 3D Sky as they require you to not only upload so many a year to earn more per download but also decide themselves if what you do is even worth being "pro" status or just free, I lost out on 2000+ sales because of that.
Of course there are very talented ZBrush artists who can sell their models for 3D Printing, I've yet to try that but I can see they might make a little more money per download, there's a few other good marketplaces, Unreal Marketplace and Artstation but I fear what I make is what most every able modeller can make and they're not even willing to pay $5 for a whole set of chairs.
do you guys release the audio of these podcasts anywhere? I want to listen to it as I work without loading youtube videos up.
We do! Check apple podcasts
Hello guys. Very informative video. You guys talked about people trying to get into the industry these days who are overly confident about their work and stuff. I was just wondering about the opposite side, the not so confident people who got into the industry, probably got his/her very first job but still have doubts on their skills level.
Well I saw the opposite view in Art Academy that I went to. There was 1 teacher that knew how to teach, and he gave design history class. And then there were only designers. And oh boy, some knew how to teach, but many had no idea how to talk to group of people, how to motivate people etc. More often then not, they were just shiting in our souls. And crushed the remains of the ego that anyone had. That was more like a boxing match than school.
You guys are amazing!! thanks for the video!!
Im glad I have a family that can actually tell me if my artwork is shit. If it's good my brother will say nothing and leave my room. If its okay he will say its bad. If its bad hell critique it in a way that will actually help me out with imporovement
LOL "The Making of" morph target trick... to funny!