The Mystery Of The UNBREAKABLE World Record
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- Опубликовано: 30 окт 2023
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"never failed a drug test"....was before randomised testing was introduced and before HGH could be detected properly
Drug test are easily beat! If you think they're not still using drugs to this day you're a fool!
It’s easy to tell there’s still a lot of that stuff going on given the countless people getting busted the season. Hopefully we can find a way to eventually to get around all this negativity but it’s just a bummer when you peel back to reality..
Hgh is almost impossible to get popped for.
@@stephenwilliams7200even if there easily beat they save the urine and test it again that how they got Russia they save that piss until they got new ways of testing but it did take 4 years
@@benben6054 I'm pretty sure marion Jones and Lance Armstrong both told on themselves after years of taking drugs. Like I said the test are easy to beat. Testing will always be two steps Behind.
I have never had to stop watching one of your videos before but I had to this time after three minutes… East German original documents that became available after the fall of the iron curtain show Koch used the anabolic steroid Oral-Turinabol (4-Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone) from 1981 to 1984 with dosages ranging from 530 to 1460 mg/year… this is where you should start, and if you think these documents are correct, this is where you end…
that would make for a boring ass video
Yep, they were all at it. Renate Stecher and Barbel Wochtl were the other two of the triumvirate. East Germany dominated women's athletics. If you didn't know that they were busted years ago the fact that German women are now useless in world terms tells you all you need to know. I don't understand why these "records" are allowed to stand.
He covers that
There are still some issues. 1) It looks like she didn't suffer any of the major side effects. 2) Turinabol is a milder steroid than Jarmila, who looked like a man. Yet she was still faster 3) Many users were given it and told they were vitamin. If she were one of them, she would not know. 4) Torinabol stays in your system longer along with being milder. Does it give much more of an advantage than HGH? Doubt it. 5) Being the fastest of a bunch of drug takers is still impressive. Similar to Ben Johnson and Mark McGwire. 6) By now someone should've beat this record with the advancement in track technology, nutrition, equipment, foot wear, training, etc. Ben Johnson mark's was supposed to be untouchable but Bolt, Blake and Gay matched or better it. Powell got close. The fact nobody is close now puts her in the same athletic freak category as FloJo except she did it for so many years.
@@zk4761 "5) Being the fastest of a bunch of drug takers is still impressive. Similar to Ben Johnson and Mark McGwire." Nope
Koch was dosing on Oral Turinabol (aka CDMT) from 1981 to 1984. Berendonk & Franke saved documents written by the East German drug research programme and she listed by name in those documents listing her dosing from 530 to 1460 mg per year under State Plan Topic 14.25. She can say she didn't take it, but she would be hard pressed to not admit that she received 'vitamins' under her training program. The thing about CDMT is it is designed as a tablet.
wow, smoking gun there. I didn't read it but it's being saved by NIH so not just some dubious magazine article somewhere.
That would put her at the equivalent of an 18-25 year old man. I'm most impressed by the dose. High but not crazy high where health problems or over masculinization would emerge. Very conservative edge.
@@miltkarr5109you contradicted yourself...yes very conservative edge at best. Oral turinabol was the weak version of dbol...even if she was on the higher end as documented it was a low hit.. it didn't make her equivalent to an 18 to 25 male...The 1460mg for the yr possibly cycled into months but still low
Your mother uses oral steroids 😂
Look at her prominant adam’s apple(thyroid cartilege) she was using anabolic steroids since she was about 18. 🙄
Out of the top 10 fastest 400m times ever she holds 5! The soviet woman in 2nd in this race also ran the 9th fastest time ever in this same race. Only 3 of the top 10 times ever were ran outside the 1980's. All Eastern block countries were taking performance enhancing drugs at the time as well as some U.S. athletes. Every womens world record from the 100m to the 800m (not including hurdle races) was set in the 80's.
This is a bit like weightlifting. Most records were set in the 80's by eastern bloc countries. They have re-arranged the weight classes to nullify these but outside of a few exceptions almost all the best lifts were done during this era.
Lifters like Lasha who were also caught using PED's aren't able to use the same types of drugs and for the duration that those athletes were. Kind of impressive he was able to match those all time lifts on lesser PED use I guess.
What do you really "know"? Western state propaganda? Come on - they are always lying
Flo Jo?
Steroids give ur head a shake 💪
Her time was as legitimate as Flo Jo's times.
Both are doping cheats
@@pedropelaez yup
@@pedropelaezFlo Jo still had perfect form. She has the most technically perfect form ever.
Speculation@@pedropelaez
@@pedropelaezI bet you most all of them are doing the same thing. I doubt any of the, are completely clean.
I remember seeing Koch and Kratochvilova run in the '80s. The entire Soviet bloc (Russian, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, etc.) was hopped up on steroids and "blood packing." It wasn't even that much of a secret. it was all sports, not just track & field. There were no tests that could detect all of the different steroids then so their federations just dared people to prove it. Occasionally someone would get caught in the urine testing, but not enough of them. Of course Koch is going to deny she was doping. That's like Kratochvilova saying she was just "a big country farm girl" and came by her muscle mass naturally. It was the stance of the Soviet Union that if they couldn't win the cold war - they'd prove their superiority with athletics. You know...since that worked out so well for Hitler in 1936..
А американцы питались только святым духом? О , Ха- Ха- ха. Просто тогда влияние СССР и США было равным в международных структурах. Льюис в 1988 попадался трижды, ему все сошло с рук. , Гатлин попадался дважды, все сошло с рук. Бегун на 400м Петтигрю признался что принимал допинг и эстафетная команда США лишилась великого рекорда 4 по 400м 254.20 1998( против чего я категорически против) и нескольких титулов чемпионов мира( я тоже против этого) Все были в равных условиях. Но социалистическая система в СССР и ГДР позволяла получить доступ к спорту широким слоям населения и система отбора талантов была лучше чем в США и странах Запада. Кстати в 1984 году американцы вывели из под проверок на допинг 80 проб своих спортсменов и это общеизвестный факт. Да и сам допинг появился в США. Так что не надо ля- ля
Its the same today, but they just use different stuff. Acting like pro athletes are clean today is just dumb. Anyone who understand even in slightest human performance and can read studies and look at the testing records must understand that everyone in pro sports dope today.
Thank you for beating me to this massive fraud that for some reason no one likes to address. All we hear about is FloJo "suspicions" but these Soviet Bloc broads were literally running as pros and doing everything possible to get as fast as possible.
It’s not like they aren’t doping today and with potentially more potent drugs. It was a tremendous run that should stand.
There was also no out of competition testing and the eastern block tested their athletes before any competition. Anyone testing positive withdrew due to a mystery injury.
Germans simply had the better chemists. Everybody was taking something, USA included.
Marita wasn’t on drugs; she was on cutting-edge drugs
Just like today.
@@thebigpicture2032 oh yes…greatest dopers of all time are in contemporary times :)
Obsolete by today's standards.
@@thebigpicture2032 Today's drugs don't seem as good
@@Teucer9 true, queludes were da bomb!
Any Eastern Bloc record from the 80's should be suspect.
5:09 she was onto something special. All this consistency and then wham, maybe she was ON something special.
Armpit hair....tasty
Well of course as they are all using Drugs.
Every record, since the 80's, from any nation should be suspect. PEDs are endemic, the difference between then and now is better understanding of how to avoid testing positive.
Not just suspect any more. We have the actual GDR data which identifies all of the athletes and what junk they were forced to take. They were all forcibly doped without any consideration to their health. Tokens for the glorification of the regime.
As should any U.S. WR held from the 80s-90s.. ask David Jenkins
As natural as Ronnie Coleman
I would like to see a video analyzing Coe's 800 race from 1981. It still stands as the 3rd in the all-time list. And Jonathan Edward's triple jump world record.
Records by Coe and his Great Britain teammates Cram and Ovett are certainly suspect. The same is true of Lasse Viren and his Finland teammates as well as many distance runners prior to 1985. Many were lab rats using blood doping but who and to what extent remains unknown. But this became a Europe normal practice once distance runners became aware of Viren's use of blood. This led to the banning in 1985. Of course eventually EPO came around and more cheating and bans. There is one World Championship 1500 where they verified subsequent use of EPO or similar drugs with better testing of saved samples. In that one race 9 of the women were identified as verified cheats with two undergoing final stages of their hearings. This was the first time it brought the focus on African nations. In that race the first clean runner was a Canadian in 3rd place. The next clean runner was an American in 7th place. The problem is nobody can go back and recreate the excitement of the race of what would have happened and giving them medals many years afterwards without a stadium cheering is not justice. Now we have super shoes making a mockery of track. Winners are being created in a lab as Nike, Adidas and other shoe companies acknowledge that they continue to try for technological advancements to give their sponsored runners an unfair advantage. It has gotten so bad that the shoes are now being designed to be broken in and worn by world class distance runners with a short run of 5 to 6 miles. Then to be used in only one race for a marathon, 10K or 5K. This happened in the Chicago Marathon when the World Record was just set. But the governing bodies overseeing track and field like these shoes as it has brought back viewers and money into the sport and great profits for shoe companies. But will the International Olympic Committee allow their use as they are creating fake records which the shoe companies have acknowledged has occured since 2017.
For Coe's 800 meter race form 1981, see the second part of the video at ruclips.net/video/QhAtzVvRXfI/видео.html
Coe was awesome.
Got his autograph at the Drake Relays in Iowa, USA about that time. There was an Irishman there who was fast as well, OShaunassy or something.
@@philipgates988 Eamonn Coghlan was the best Irish miles back then and they used to call him the chairman of the boards because of his ability to win the indoor mile. The other best Irish runner was John Treacy.
As they used to say back in the 80's ..."If you're not on it, you're not in it."
She, Koch, may not have known that she was being doped, but many GDR athletes admitted that after taking the "Pills" they were ordered to take, their performances increased dramatically. The women's voices deepened. Koch's autopsy will eventually reveal all.
lol
Unless there is a medical reason for an autopsy, such as sudden unexpected death, which applied in the case of Flo Jo, autopsy will only be made if the relatives request it.
Oh she mos def knew. I mean u cant give a profesional runner "vitamins" and all her records are getting better and then breaking wr and be like "hmmm i think those pills are helping out a bit" she knew what was up, same as everyone else that competed back then
......she was the best of that time though
@@fungus_am0nguz644
Koch and Jamila wrote letters, I learned this from one of the other comments on this page, in which they referred to their consumption of PEDs. The Stasi records by themselves would not be conclusive proof as a number of Eastern German athletes had adverse reactions and didn't take their prescribed medications. The letters show they knew and consumed.
Oh, Koch knew it! There is a letter Koch wrote about Wockel receiving higher doses of steroids than Koch!
Would be interested on a deep dive into the women's 800m world record.
One thing that astonishes me about the 800 meter WR is that it was set with slightly negative splits (56.82 and 56.46, with a very fast last 100) indicating that it could have been quite a bit faster with better pacing.
You’ve got my vote 👍🏾
@@WithBACON I think that negative split was actually the best possible pacing in this situation. She wanted to take place in a 200m race, but had an injury that didn't allow a fast acceleration which allowed her to not start the 800m race too hard, allowing that negative split world record.
@@jojolords4523 Generally speaking, the way to run 800 meters as fast as possible (at the world-class level) is to have the 1st lap about 2-3 seconds faster than the second. This holds true for women as well as men. In this race ideal pacing would have been something like 27-28-28.5-29. JK's 200 PR was 21.97; obviously an opening 200 in the 27 range (or slightly faster) would not have been a problem.
@@WithBACONyou have to also remember the 800n WR holder could also run 48s 400m the first lap must have felt like a slightly harder jog to her hence the negative spilt
Thanks for this. Also see Marita's interview with Donna de Varona after the race.
This is a well presented history of the time and as a Track Aficionado from the 60’s through the 2020’s. I saw Ludmilla at an International meet in Eugene Oregon’s and it was obvious steroids that made her so strong. I ran in the 4 minute Miler era and as a distance runner in that era. Ludmilla admitted it and died young. So looking at Koch and this time I believe it was the perfect combination of Athletic performance build up and an East German mercedes class drug program which took her below 48. Read on yes thought I remembered that East German story about their evidence of CMBT
Please be more clear - what exactly did Lyudmila admit and die young, is it that you saw her in Oregon, or that you were a distance runner?
Don't forget the track and altitude : the fact the best time Koch achieved the year before and after, was the same, gives away the importance of having an ideal track, when new, for a fast time.
The fact that she was doping has been proven. There are East German records that detail the doping.
7:35 ....FINALLY .....gets to "performance enhancing drugs". "Overwhelming evidence which suggests a governmental state sponsored building program. And over the years, many athletes have actually come forward, admitting it's doping." So the East German scientists figure out how to hide the many drugs used ...making them undetectable at that time. These training records have been published showing this activity .....there should be no "statute of limitations" to stripping ALL records ......particularly when there was INTENT ......which very clearly there was.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marita_Koch
"The documents list the dosage and timetables for the administration of anabolic steroids to many athletes of the former DDR, with one of them being Marita Koch. According to the sources, Koch did use the anabolic steroid Oral-Turinabol (4-Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone) from 1981 to 1984 with dosages ranging from 530 to 1460 mg/year."
There is one other factor. Marita Koch does NOT appear to have the typical female body structure. She has no "hips" and has much wider shoulders than most every female. The muscle mass all over, particularly in the thighs and shoulders for driving when she is running is very clearly over-developed ....yet lean. She is the ideal candidate for doping.
It's too bad she would not admit to cheating. It shows her character .....untrustworthy. She is not deserving of any respect ....and the same applies to the Olympic organization.
.
A friend saw this race live.
Your video is informative as I did not realise what a fine 100, 200 and 400 metre she was. We may never know about the underpinnings of her success.
Your context explanation is greatly appreciated from an athletics fan,
Living in the Soviet bloc, during those times, their athletes would be under orders to take whatever PED, prescribed by the State Doctors....it was POLICY.
Their athletes were propaganda objects of the State and were treated like machines.
Any refusal of these tenets, would result in banishment of the athlete and his/her family.
....and we all know the word Gulag and Stasi, don't we.
Do you actually think the U.S. & Europe weren't experimenting with drug use? Come on!
They were on PEDs but the rest you wrote is the fiction.
Exactly. I've been making that same point on these videos. Check out my comment. They were used and abused. I used to hate them but I now feel great pity for them.
Yes they were but FloJo was also on drugs. I propose to get a tennis-like "era division" in athletics. The new era should start from 1989 when random testing has been introduced. I just don't believe anything that happened before that regardless of nationality.
@@bm9504nb12
Remember BALCO ? And the cheating methods available now are designed to exit the body in 30 seconds.
If Koch hadn't broken it then we'd still be talking about the 47.99 of Kratochvilova as the Czech was an embodiment of the caricature image of a soviet era athlete, she was built like Ben Johnson.
And her 42 year old indoor record got broken this year by Bol.
She was also the front man for the Who.
@@jamezkpal2361 🤣
It is one of the few races in which MARITA KOCH. He didn't put his head into the finish line. If he had done so, he would have dropped the 48
The woman who came second ran 48.27 so should probably feature on the all time list though I appreciate it says since 1985. Amazing they ran those times from lanes 1 and 2.
Very good observation! And I believe that the (former record holder, and still in 800m.) was running on lane 7 in this race.
The woman who finished second won Olympic Gold in the 1988 400 meter and Olympic Silver in 1992.
yea, goofball voice over all lane 1 got was "slightly challenged by inside""
Also enhanced.
Lane 2 isn't so bad. Lane 8 is the worst in a 400 meter, it's good at the beginning, but the last curve is just a long, long way around.
why is the time of the 2nd runner not listed in "fastest times since 1985" at 1:32 ? Russian Olga Wladykina-Bryshina finished 48,27 s in this race.
It is no surprise that the record has lasted. Firstly, we have to accept that the coaches in the GDR used every chemical aid their state funded sports science industry could come up with. That is an indisputable fact.
However, in addition those same coaches came up with ways of training in the sprint events - 60m to 400m. Read Charlie Francis' book "Speed Trap" which is mainly about his relationship with Ben Johnson. In this book Francis is very open about the huge amount of knowledge he absorbed from the GDR coaches. Their methods were very different from those used by most sprint coaches in the western world.
In an interview she explained how the short distance indoor races were part of the preparation for the outdoor 400. It was based on the theory that most top athletes have the same maximum speed. So you have to win the race on the first 60 meters.
The majority of athletes in history have been using (and are still using) every chemical aid they can get away with, or think they can get away with. Even going back to the late 1800s baseball players were using performance enhancers. They have just changed what they use and how they use as laws, rules and tests have changed.
We don't even have to speculate if she did steroids. There is actual documentation of the amounts she took and when she took them.
If technique mattered, where have all the great German sprinters gone since then? What Francis "learned" from the GDR is how to use steroids for his own runner , Ben Johnson, arguably the most infamous cheater of all time.
Thanks for your video. It brings back memories. I am astonished that IAAF (or whatever the sanctioning body) said they'll only act if the athlete admits to cheating. Why would the athlete admit to cheating and disgrace himself/herself? Why would the IAAF bother to issue such an idiotic statement.
On a more positive note, I suggest the 1991 long jump competition between Mike Powell & Carl Lewis at the World T&F Championships in Tokyo. That was, in my mind, by far the greatest long jump duel ever.
Another drug infested competition.
Carl Lewis was one of the world's biggest drug cheats ever..
Maybe she was accelerating at the end. Secretariat, who won the triple crown in 1973 was actually running faster the last quarter mile of the Kentucky Derby than the first quarter.
Well, Secretariat was a freak of nature. His heart was twice as large as other race horses. His lungs were larger too. He could pump way more blood and oxygen as other horses. The 1973 Belmont Stakes (which I watched live on TV) was the greatest sporting even in history, in my opinion. If you watch it on RUclips, take note of what happens in the back stretch. He's neck and neck with Sham, then something amazing happens. Secretariat suddenly puts himself in a totally different gear, his legs start stretching out, he starts pulling effortlessly away from Sham. He and Sham were already WAY ahead of the other horses by this time, and yet Secretariat was just warming up. He was, and is the greatest athlete to ever live!!
I would like to see on Beamon/Lewis/Powell and why no one else could come close.
Carl Lewis was on HGH his whole career while trumpeting that he was squeaky clean. Sickening.
It will be very hard to break.but Sydney McLaughlin I have my eyes on to break that archaic 400m world record.. Sydney is extraordinary. and it takes a extraordinary athlete to do it. So I think she is the one to do it.agree guy's?
If she's not juiced up... she might find it hard.
Yes her or Mboma
@@JappaKneadstrack athletes not juicing !!?!?
Yeah that’s just impossible
Yep Sydney or Athing. 👏👏
Bol
I mean, it’s really no secret though.
Drugs drugs drugs.
Just like every athlete today....
One point to consider, probably best phrased as a question: the 47.60 400m performance happened in Canberra, Australia. That track is at an altitude of 1,900 feet above sea level. Could that altitude have influenced the finishing times for the first two placed finishers who ran PR's (due to thinner air, and less aero resistance)? An online calculator suggests a benefit of 1 - 2 10ths of a second benefit over 400m at that altitude. This question isn't meant to detract from the obvious doping debate.
Very very salient point. It is my view that this fact in addition to being doped to her eyebrows is why this record WILL NEVER EVER be broken or even approached.
Altitude is a point almost no one realizes, also, it was a brand new super quick track on which even club runners had run stunning times just a few days prior to the WC meet.
Same argument to the Mexico City Olympics...... it's an old argument.
@@SuperChuckRaney 1900' in Canberra is nothing compared to Mexico City's 6800', and likely gives only a negligible advantage
@@markcaporale2559 The advantage would be training there and then running at a much lower altitude immediately after. Granted though, if you are not used to the altitude you will not do well, but that would be a case of underperforming until you got acclimatized to your "normal" self.
Doped to the gils. Athletes are getting better every year. Better training, better equipment, better nutrition, etc. Just look at the improvements in performance in other sports. All these track and field records that have held up 30 years mean one thing.
athletes have much better shoes and tracks now too
"Mean one thing": one meter had 95 cm in the 1980s.
The gal in lane 1 smoked it pretty well as well
She was Olga Bryzgina of Ukraine, yet another Eastern Bloc athlete who was probably doping.
That is still the 4th fastest women’s 400m of all time
@@bram99494that's crazy!!
Her lastname wasn't Koch for nothing
She was a Kochin.
Yeah she has a Kochin her pants
Kochs talent covering 60 metres through to 400 metre races, is freakish. She could be an outlier, regardless of whether she doped or not
Absolute outlier 100% the 60 up through 400 require very different skillsets
It doesn’t happen anymore. Jamaicans also don’t run indoors.
Irina Privalova was world-class from 60m up to 400m hurdles in the 90’s.
That's the thing. The GDR sporting authorities would have recognised her talent when she was very young. From that moment on she would have been forced to dope whether she wanted to or not and the authorities would not have cared less about any risk to her long term health.
She was most likely a phenomenal talent. But she absolutely doped as it was mandatory under the USSR in order to be able to compete, and she willingly complied and then has lied about it for decades since. Her talent is far superior to her character, because she was a winner, but much more a cheater.
@@Kissypoohyou do know USSR and GDR were two entirely different countries?
The fact that she took a victory lap and seemed hardly out of breath after such a fast time, was a suspicious sign that something was not normal. Who breaks 30+ world records?
just a genetically superior human
i've had some of my best times and won many events without showing any signs of being warned out. why? the joy takes over and you don't feel any pain.
A man
Everybody knows that the East Germans were dirty. It's not a mystery.
@@gumbi79 ....yet none now from Germany...umm ok.
Would love to see more videos about unbroken world records from this era.
High Jump , Sotomayor
@@BlueHopi144 and high jump - Stefka Kostadinova...
@@pandaplutten2573
Indeed
Would be interesting to now the drug regimes of various athletes of the time...
Kratochvilova ended up looking like a fella- yet Koch looked like a typically fit female...
Of course Flo Jo did the same thing. Her voice dropped as fast as her times
8:20 THAT INSIDE LANE TOOK A BAD FALL!!! It looks like sand from the long jump 😂🤦♂️
For you to even mention PED'S about Koch and not talk about PED'S in the video's you've done about FloJo, Carl Lewis. Is simply wrong, when you see the evidence against these athletes. Especially FloJo.
Well, this one is about a race FloJo was not in, so why should he. FloJo was absolutely doped, and doping was prevalent already at college level in USA. Several athletes from Norway that went to USA to study, were later caught with doping, especially throwers.
@@bjornlangoren3002he is saying he didn’t mention them in videos about the other two.
Untouchable record after 30+ years 😂 I understand most athletes at the top are on something but this is just next level doping right here
Her PR was only .17 faster than McLaughlin until she was almost a year and a half older than McLaughlin, who didn't event have a chance to race during peak this summer. Totally dumb, click bait video.
PEDs these days are much better. So are recovery methods and shoes.
@@robertbucks5537yet the record is still untouchable suggesting the amount of drugs they were doing was higher then those today
@@robertbucks5537so why hasn’t it gotten broken yet. Yes peds a better now but athletes obv take less of them nowadays, otherwise this record would have already been smashed. It’s obv that in the DDR they had some insane shit.
@@xithr5674Well its a lot about genetics if you have extraordinary athlete in one generation, yes then the record can stay for long periods of time.
Reminds me of the SNL all drug Olympics skit. He's attempting to dead lift 5000 pounds and he pulled his arms off. Oh He's gonna feel that in the morning.
Apart from all the controversial scenarios regarding her performances, the only thing I can say about Marita is that she is an extremely talented being, very humble, very warm and kind, I thiank I have never met someone like her before, and it is probably too late to meet agai. She is definitely the best friend I ever had, and she was so good hearted and so offering that I would name her as "The unforgotten Marita". She gave to me so many participation numbers that decorated her chest while she was crossing the line with another world record registered, so much love and care, so much tender care, that she will definitely be my last thought when I will leave this world for the big trip... She inspired a whole generation and I was in tears of joy when she brought for me one of her gold medals of one of her world records (in 200m), a medal that was a huge inspiration for me to be a long distance runner under her golden aura. For the ones that never met this super humble girl, the only thing I can say is that you would definitely love to the bottom of your hearts her as all people who were lucky to meet her felt. Definitely the eternal record holder of a golden heart record in the world of sports and not only... The great Marita Koch.
Controversial? There's documentary evidence she was doped up to the gills. No one who uses drugs to win a game can be considered either humble or great.
And they have only gotten better . . . at avoiding positive drug tests
People really think They still don't use drugs nowadays.!😂😂
Exactly. People are so naive it hurts
While we are faster than ever before, things like training, nutrition, recovery, race strategy, and also shoes and equipment has improved a lot.
We arent even that much faster in many events than some, or even many years ago for than matter. Weather also plays a large role in some events mlre than others.
Javelin: we won't be throwing anywhere close very often anymore because of new stadiums blocking the wind for example.
Also if nike's original 4% shoe was actually 4% faster, the 2:00:25 2h attempt of kipchoge was actually only 2.04% faster than the at the time world record. If we take the shoes at 4% fasterthan at the time conventional flats (what Kimeto used in 2014 for example), then Kipchoge would only need to be 97.96% as good as Kimeto.
This doesn't even include the fact he ran with pacers and all that stuff, just the shoes. Which shows that improving a world record should not be harder at all with better technology.
What it does show is that the older the record the more inpressive it is.
In case of javelin throwing Jan Zelezny was just good and probably had favorable wind conditions, with smaller stadiums obstructing less of the outside wind in which case we essentially made it harder for ourselves to break that record ever again.
So if there actually were no favourable conditions and definetly no modern shoes for Marita Koch, she was either just very good or probably used doping of some sort.
Edit: and yes equipment des not play a large factor in javelin throwing anyways, it's a standard javelin and pretty standard equippement. How much has it improved our performance anyways? I considder Zelezny's record to be legit, because Johannes Vetter has thrown 97m recently so if he had better conditions he might as well have throw 99m. After all, it seems doable, however we never have the best conditions in majour tournaments so it seems we are so far off even if in fact we could easily throw a wr in good conditions. Stadiums block all the wind....!
Finally a video that shows the History of the enormous 47.60 in 400, a story that lasted 8 years, not from one year to the next like another of 100 and 200 FINALLY......
That’s why Leon edwards had the most aesthetic physique
Indeed
I'm going with the "East German Training" as the explanation.
Many of these Eastern Euro athletes were institutionalised in training facilities for years at a time. They didn't query why their muesli had extra white powder added. In a number of cases, once they were married the state facilitated adoption of children for them when they discovered they were unable to produce their own.
I think with the new shoe technology and other technological advances in tracking the bodily functions with smart programs and AI tracking, the athletes will be able to break this record within ten years i believe. And with the new backtracking system of doping tests and bloodpass, it will be possible to root out cheaters. I hope that they do a preemptive approval system of shoe technology so that the shoes must be pre sertified for a WR or IAAF world events for the results to be valid, so no new hidden secret clips to the cracks that would give one specific athlete or athletes an unfair advantage over the competition in any moment. Then the records of the future and those old controversial records will fall, including this one and finaly we will feal good about the WR in stead of fealing a little off about it.
Truly amazing what performance enhancing drug can do.
More like hard work and drugs. I mean everyone in pro athletics is on drugs today too
@alexmichl3137 We are talking about banned or prohibited drugs.
@@benden5095 Ok *PEDS
disregarding to the East German doping system, Marita Koch had by far the best and most efficient running technique of all Sprinters I have seen over the decades. That certainly helps being the fastest, too....
The reason the record still stands out is because at that time it was still quite easy to use massive doses of steroids without getting caught. Contrary to what many people may think there's no modern drug that comes close for building strength and explosive power (or muscle mass).
If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck. IT IS A DUCK!!
Everyone knows that the PEDs that Koch and co were on back then are not even close to the PEDs we have today, especially EPO which became a thing in the 90s
The reason why Koch was so good in the 400m is because she was primarily trained as a short distance sprinter and was exceptional , the extra endurance from steroids enabled a quick transition from the perfect style of being a fast sprinter to the 400m
The 47.60 shows the different styles very well, there you have Jarmila in lane one catching Koch on the last straight her endurance was unmatched but Kochs fast twitch genetics put it out of reach by the 200m mark
One thing is pretty sure, give Koch EPO and she wouldve run a shade over 46 seconds and obliterated her WR, she had the speed to do it which was genetics.
Its a shame the 400m isnt a popular event for sprinters to run alongside the 100m and 200m, if it was Im sure there would be a lot more closer times and in most likelihood a new WR
The problem is with PEDs, their illegality force athletes to cycle off before majors, yes even in 1985 Koch passed drug tests because she wasnt running with any in her system, she just kept the excessive gains made by training on them. This cycling off means that athletes will be more depleted if they run in multiple events and with fine margins at the top level its simply not worth it in most cases.
Allowing athletes to use safe PEDs (not cocaine, amphetamine, pcp etc) would enable the best athletes to take part in multiple events due to the recovery
A number of athletes in the past had the potential to challenge the 400m WR but simply didnt take part in the event, a few examples are:
Irina Privalova (entered the 400m hurdles late in her career and won the gold medal, current 50m +60m WR holder)
Flo Jo (Ran 48.1 split in the relay, current 100m and 200m WR holder)
Marion Jones (wouldve smashed the 400m WR if she wasnt training specifically for the 100m WR, she had the advantage of not having to cycle off PEDs and wouldve had access to EPO, she wouldve achieved 46)
Shericka Jackson
Carmelita Jeter (4x100m WR holder)
Dafne Schippers
Elaine Thompson
Koch is really the odd one out of the elite sprinters that also did the 400m, most athletes with exceptional fast twitch fiber % go into the shorter sprints and stay there, even Michael Johnson wasnt great in the 100m, the 400m required a lot of dedication and the athletes doing it usually arent the elite at the shorter sprints (Kerley is an exception) but they master the optimum speed maintained during the whole lap.
The epitome of mastering the speed during a whole lap is Syndey and Karstens 400m hurdles WRs, and many people think that Sydney is the athlete to challenge Kochs 47.60
I think its possible but I also think that someone like Shericka Jackson has far more potential to do it as she is way faster in terms of raw speed. PEDs dont make someones fast twitch fiber % change you are either fast or you arent and while Marion Jones was very fast this is why she never beat Flo Jos times but with the PEDs available to her during the 1990s she absolutely went after the wrong world record, the advantage someone like her wouldve had in the 400m trained properly wouldve made the 1980s records look like they were done by athletes on wartime rations.
You can tell by looking at the 47.60 that Koch had more potential arguably losing over a second in the final 100m, certainly over half a second to Jarmila.
Its like all the best tall athletes going to the NBA instead of making new world records in track and field, or everyone thinking Jamaica has some special genetics that make them the best sprinters, truth is its just popularity and soon enough someone will smash that record but it will be a pure sprinter that does it, not an 800m specialist or rangy 200-400m runner who currently populate the 400m event
Safe PEDs need to be legalized, they are always omnipresent in sports but demonizing them forces athletes to specialize and has robbed us of athletes like Bolt competing in the 400m, long jump and decathlon. Imagine an alternate timeline where PEDs were celebrated as sports science and being cutting edge and Bo Jackson or Wilt Chamberlain winning 8 gold medals in track and field in a single world championships
The only argument about Kochs 47.60 and PEDs is why hasnt anyone smashed it yet considering how much better modern PEDs are in endurance events? Koch was as legitimate an athlete as anyone and should be celebrated, she was also the cream of the crop in an environment where talent was heavily scouted far more than modern times, an exceptional athlete genetically. I listed a number of athletes who couldve beaten her WR but if you take them all in their primes with the same PEDs I think Koch is hard to beat.
Its the cross section of the leg muscle devoted to the fast twitch which counts. Women typically have 50% fast and 50% slow. Weight training increases the cross section of each fast twitch fibre and as the fast twitch becomes larger, they also respond faster.
Marion Jones was never interested in 400m because the 100m had much greater financial potential : she divorced TJ Hunter to maximise her advertising revenue.
@@michaeledwards2251 genetics determines how much % , all weight training does is tear the muscle to promote more growth so they get more fast twitch but also more slow twitch and athletes with poor genetics for sprinting (higher slow twitch %) will carry more weight. Steroids just promote recovery and therefore growth of muscles with training, as well as extra endurance which further helps training. There comes a point where too much muscle growth will slow someone down which is why most sprinters dont resemble Ronnie Coleman and athletes like DeGrasse and Tyson Gay with slim build are sometimes just as fast as a roided up bodybuilder physique like Maurice Greene, Linford Christie and Yohan Blake etc. If your example was true with fast twitch becoming faster there would be no way in hell that Andre could ever run as fast as Maurice due to the big difference in the amount of muscle but DeGrasse clearly has a heavy fast twitch % and didnt need to bulk up as obviously as Greene. Also Marion Jones professional steroid use in an 8 year span (probably more like 16 years) she never got any faster which proves she was already on the limit of weight to muscle from being quite a heavy athlete already
"Safe PEDs need to be legalized" Do you really think that's a good idea? To me what's going to happen is that kids everywhere looking for an edge in competition will turn to these drugs. Kids will get their hands on them you can be sure. Do you want your kids hopped up on ped's? How safe can ped's be anyhow, no one knows for sure. IMHO drug testing needs improvement and ped's need to be wiped out of competition. I think people want to see natural athletes not mysterious drug induced athletes.
Dude sure could run. 😊
@bobsbbcards I always thought he,sorry, she was pumped full of something.
Por fin un VIDEO que comenta los 9 años que duró la carrera de marita koch gracias ella se lo merecía
She is amazing, especially considering that she did this WITHOUT superspikes or a fast mondo track. Imagine what she would have gotten if she had those advantages.
For those that mention ped's, the drugs available then do not even come close to the super drugs available today, such as: hgh, igf, peptides, insulin, epo, beta agonists, etc. If she was using the incredible drugs of today, along with super spikes and a mondo track, she would probably be a sub 45.
An Aussie Raylene Boyle kept coming second to the east Germans back in the day. It saddens me that a legendary athlete never got the accolades she deserved. World & Olympic Gold were stolen by not the athletes, but a evil German athletics program you would only imagine seeing in China, Russia or some other godless nation. Your a immortal of Athletics Raylene & one day you will be recognised for your greatness, ambassador for sport & as a humble human being 🏅🎖️
Boyle was almost certainly also on PED's.
Any running record that is 20+ years old is probably doped.
It's not just that they were doped, it's what they were doping with. They were on stuff way stronger than anything an athlete could even dream of taking today, if they planned on passing a drug teat.
All the records have been done by athletes who were using performance enhancing drugs of some kind. In the 80s they were able to get away with more.
Eventually something will have to be done to certain WRs. While the remaining running ones, specially 100/200/400m seem like they could be beaten even with runners active today, some if not all of the throwing ones are not possible to be beaten without doping. And when those get looked at, I'd imagine rest of that era's WRs would get taken down as well. But will that happen in 5 or 50 years, who knows.
Yeah, I remember when the state of Virginia just scrapped all the fish/fishing records and started anew. At some point you just have to wipe the slate.
There should be an old era (before 1989) and the times set should be called old era records. From random drug testing, so 1989 we can consider times as world record. It is not perfect nor entirely fair, but much much better than keeping these times.
There is a mistake. Olha Bryzhina, Olga Arkad'evna Vladykina. Bryzhina's 400m personal best of 48.27 seconds is the women's 4th best result of all time in a laned 400m race.
She achieved this in the same race that Marita Koch set the current 400m world record of 47.60 seconds on 6 October 1985 at the Bruce Stadium in Canberra (Australia).
As you can see in your video, Olha is faster on the last 20 meters. Olhna's daughter stroke in 2012 with a great clocking over 200m. At min 1:32 she would be third in the list you show. Please correct.
This was pretty interesting. I'm still suspicious of her 47.6. However this just make me think that performance of hers was just one of those insane feats an athlete can pull off once.
Kinda like Eddie Hall dead lifting 500kg. He could never replicate that feat ever again, but still had world class strength.
except we know she was using PEDs from the Stasi records
@@NonFlyiingDutchman just like Eddie Hall was.
Im surprised that record still stands. And i believe the women that could easily challenge that record doesnt prefer to run the 400. There are quite a few women running the 200m in the 21s and its very common to run in the 200m in th 22s so it seems to me the women that could challenge that record doesnt like running the 400m. If she can run a 21 200m seems like she could run at least a 47 or even a 46 400m if she endurance trained to do it. The ones running it now has the endurance to run a 400 but not the speed to run a competative 200m you have to have both
If you trained a world class 200m sprinter to run the 400m they would break that record in no time. Its just 200m sprinters stay away from the 400m because its grueling
@@thelog86 Great idea! Wonder why they haven’t thought of that.
Would be interested in the men’s high jump world record.
A NATURAL TALENT IMPLEMENTED BY THE WORK CULTURE AND THE SPIRIT OF SACRIFICE TESTIFIED BY A VERY LONG CAREER YOU HAVE TOP... THE INTEGRATION OF DOPING COMMENSURATE WITH THE HISTORICAL PERIOD AND NO MORE NOR LESS THAN THEIR AMERICAN COLLEAGUES. IT REMAINS A DIFFICULTLY MATCHABLE EXAMPLE
I was going to mention the well known doping that went on back then...but you covered it. Given how long the record has stood doesn't this boil down to 2 possibilities. Maria Koch was a genetic unicorn or she was doping. I'll bet some examination of her earlier times prior to major events could reveal and improvement delta well outside of human norms. Or she was always that good and continued to improve at a rate acceptable for a human that is not doping. Sorry Im betting she was doping even if she was unaware of it. Anecdotal stories about the program include accounts from athletes describe being given a drink or a pill and told it was just vitamins or other necessary supplements but never told it was PED's. She might have never known.
There will always be doubt on the validity of this record and we seem to think that sport will inevitably get better over time. However, Mike Powell's long jump record of 1991, Javier Sotomayor's high jump record in 1993 and Jonathan Edward's triple jump record of 1995 still stand to this day so it is possible that Koch was just an incredible talent.
Or, more likely, many athletes at the time were getting away with massive doping, and never got caught, officially.
It's possible that Lance Armstrong is an incredible talent as well and he is according to Lance Armstrong.
In the triple jump, the optimum jump requires an unstable transition. Jonathan Edwards was able to calm his mind before a jump which why his record stands to this day : It could be unbeaten for a hundred years or fall tomorrow : it requires a world class triple jumper with a special mental skill under competitive stress.
The banning of a somersault long jump has prevented 10m + long jumps becoming standard.
Javier had exceptional bounciness, combined with the right musculature : a very rare combination in low cash event such as high jump.
It happened. Whether she used or not is immaterial. We watched it happen, it’s valid.
Let's see. All the other runners competing against Kock have stated that they have used some type of doping, but Kock has said that she did not take any substance to enhance her performance, then she is one incredible athlete.
В 1962 году Питер Снелл пробежал , на травяной дорожке, 880 ярдов за 145.1( 144.3 800м по ходу) Как рекорд Океании он продержался более 50 лет, хотя там хватало классных бегунов , беги он на современном Мондо в современных шиповках, его рекорд был бы не менее 142 Много бегунов бежало быстрее по прошествии 60 лет? Ещё Лидьярд писал, что если генетически одаренный бегун , на пике формы, установит рекорд, то побить его будет очень сложно. А у Кох была потрясающая базовая скорость 7.04 60м , возможно в этом секрет ее успеха. Что касается допинга, то все были в равных условиях. Просто в ГДР это поставили на научную основу, а немецкая педантичность и широкие возможности в поисках талантов( социалистическая система давала огромные возможности) - секрет успеха спортсменов ГДР
It's mere coincidence she has the legs of a race horse and the hair of a man. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Watch the runner in lane 1 actually closed up on the Koch as they came to the line? She was much farther back in the turn.
Jose Canseco, the baseball player, juiced up and went from barely running bases to stealing bases and became a serious all star player.
@@user-wy8sj3ed3f all the dope in the world wont matter if she doesn't do the work. She must have REALLY worked hard to gain so much.
@@SuperChuckRaney Кох, в отличие от Кратохвиловой, на мужчину совсем не похожа и никак, внешне, не отличалась от других бегуний на 400м
@@user-wy8sj3ed3f I looked again, you are correct, I had them backwards
One of britains top athletic coaches told me many years ago it would be nearly impossibe to win at national level let alone international level without using drugs in most athletic events,britains most famous sprinter generated so much money for the sport the governing body turned a blind eye and even let him know if he was about to be tested so he could pull out of the meet with injury
If we can accept flo Jo’s record then we have to accept world records for other athletes.. .. that being said there were a lot of drug users around that time
Her teammates admitting to using drugs
If Flo-Jo can run 10.49 then 47.60 doesn’t seem that unbelievable 😊
flo was definitely on roids too and the wind was like +5 that day
@@h1dd3n11 Flo was quickly cremated following her unexpected & sudden death. Nothing to see here, folks...Move along...
@@Lifetalk849 After her heart exploded.
@@TheJhtlag 😢
@@h1dd3n11 10:49- if the wind was a factor (which i do not deny) why didn't 2-8 lanes run super times as well
Same as with Wang Junxia and few other from China and East German swimmers have said - never deliberately cheated but were told to take vitamin tablets that didn’t know what was in them
The 10 year statute of limitations on PED use is appropriate because while testing has gotten better, so has masking. People like Victor Conte and Balco create not only designer steroids that are increasingly harder to detect, but alternate it with HGH use as well as advanced masking techniques. If she was using she was using crude, easily detectable steroids(like the oral tablets some have suggested here). Now athletes and their coaches know better so to bust her and take away her record would pretend that modern athletes records are done totally clean which is absurd.. Modern athletes have only learned to get away with it better. She's just as much a champion as the majority of other world track record holders. Great athlete and amazing record.
With better tests those performances were not repeated.
Doped or not we must give credit where is due. Koch was a prodigy. Running everything from 60 to 400 is insane.
Also 400 is the event where the biggest time difference is made. Woman have been winning medals with 50.x and 48.x so it isn’t as unusual.
I believe Perec was able to dip sub 48 and Naser, Sydney, SMU and possibly Bol are also capable of doing it.
Doped gets NO CREDIT
@thomasgreen1914 That’s not the point, take the best runners ever and dope them to the gills and they still wouldn’t beat this mark
@@ccbgaming6994 sir thomas won't get it. Folks that like think drugs are the sole reason someone can reach that. There has to be something there to begin with and if it isn't. Well no amount of drugs will fill the gap.
@@thomasgreen1914all the pros are doping as well guaranteed. You think they’re running just. Drinking protein shakes. And using creating. And eating fruits and vegetables.
How do you have any idea of what somebodys progress on steroids would be ? DDR women started growing beards back in the day, suggesting testosterone use, and surely a lot of men can run sub 47, as could many women on testo and anabolic steroids@@ccbgaming6994
Thank you for this commentary, and now please address Kratochvílová’s 800m record…
A record set by an East German runner in the 1970s/80s that has stood for almost 40 years.
Of course, nothing whatsoever to do with the systemic drug abuse by them and the Soviets at that time.
He would be a sick bantamweight in the ufc 🤣🤣🤣
IMO this record is definitely drug fuelled, but I also believe that is true for the women's 100m, 200m and 800m WRs.
The difference is that the 100m and 200m WR are under real threat because there is a group of athletes pushing each other closer and closer to breaking it. 400m has been different for over 30 years because so few athletes break 49s, so breaking 47s looks impossible. For far too long, there has been a big psychological barrier to even going after this record, I would go so far as to say that the barrier is at 49s flat. However, now we have 3-4 athletes who are clearly capable of sub 49s on a regular basis. Once 49s is no longer seen as a barrier for the elite performers they will push closer and closer to the WR.
Bodies have limits
The one behind Marita Koch in that race may have made a great timing as well. Many subtances that are not allowed now were allowed back then.
What was the time of the second place runner?
She was juiced to the gills, as was the woman who owns the 800m world record.
It's possible to take steroids during training (because steroids are used to allow someone to train harder and recover faster) and then let them leech out of your system before testing is done - you reap all the benefits and don't get caught.
The fact that nobody has gotten close to either of these records since the mid 1980s, despite advances in training and running shoe technology, says that these records were definitely enhanced.
imagine her running in a better lane.
I remember when Lance Armstrong was stripped of the 7 tour titles and they claimed Motorola/US Postal was the highest level most highly organised doping operation in sports history and thought you really should be aware doping in Olympic sports in the DDR was almost the primary government activity along with encouraging everyone the inform on their neighbours, family and friends
I cannot exclude the possibility that exaggeration may have been used in above comment
Not feeling like you are shedding light on this situation, certainly not new light. I feel like someone should still be able to get to the bottom/truth of this b4 time berries it for good. It will def take someone or “journalist “ to but in harder work than a script, highlights and attachments 🤞🙏
Let's see how serious investigators get to confirming their suspicions when FLO JO's name gets thrown in the ring. . . . . . . . . . . Oh, y'all thought her record was without performing enhancing drugs?? GTFOH!
She was a massive cheater and everyone knows it
Marita Koch was an incredible athlete. And as you say, never failed a drug test. You can't ask for more than that!! She was running for more than just medals and records. In East Germany, the only chance they had to see the world, was too be a world class athlete. The more motivation the better, believe me. And I've been 5 times world powerlifting champion 😂😂😂😂😂
maybe she had a koch
@benson3086 maybe, I've no idea!!
Lance never failed either.
I can ask for more than that. What an idiotic statement. In the last 10 years the Russians have been caught falsifying drug tests for their own athletes who have all been doping. Those Russians didn't "fail a drug test" because the testers were corrupt Russians. Do you have a brain?
Bingo, the athletes are corrupt, the testers are corrupt, and the national federations are as dirty as a tootsie roll that's been lying in the corner of a pub for 30 years. @@stuartmisfeldt3068
ped's were around when during every world record set.. Are we going to question those also. Bob Beamon broke the long jump record by 2 feet in 1968, Flojo's 100 m record in 1988, and on and on..
East German women had 5:00 shadows from what I remember as a kid. Totally natural.
Some actually transitioned into men. I watched a documentary about them.
To dominate from 60m to 800. Can’t be done without cheating. They should do a Timelapse of her coming down the straight mixed over the years and check out her changes in physique.
They don't have to do an analysis. They documented everything. We know what drugs she took, how much, and when she took them
While I think its very likely Koch was doping I think a lot of people overestimate how much doping can improve your performance especially in sprint/power events. The main benefits are you can train more and it makes you more consistent. That 0.8 of a second faster than the fastest trustworthy athlete I think is more than just drugs!
Mind-blowing stuff that Is, but It's so hard to believe that with modern-day fast runners they have not come close.....really
I believe the real world record belongs to Poland's Irene Szewinska, who beat Koch in some high profile races. She was not doped.
Ok. I can beleive that.
Congratulations Marita!!! You were an amazing athlete and fun to watch. Great video too. Cheers
"Congratulations dirtbag cheater!"
This time in comparison to her 200 meters times makes this record truly suspect.
Having a best of 21.71 makes an opening 22.4 reasonable. She slowed at lot 25.2 makes a 2.8 sec difference reasonable. What is suspect is her being able to run 21.71
in comparison Van Nikirk ran 19.94 and ran 20.5 in his opening. That is a difference of 0.6 seconds compared to Koch's 0.7 seconds which falls in line.
@@thomasdematteo2281He didn’t focus as much on the 200 and that 0.6 sec difference is much larger when you take into account the fact that even a tenth of a second when you’re already going that fast is massive. The difference between a 19.94/20.5 and a 21.71/22.4 isn’t directly comparable. Nikirk proportionally had a much slower opening and expended far less energy in his first 200m of his 400m than he did in his 200m pr (when compared to Koch). I’m not saying it’s hugely different, but these two factors are important to consider
@peterparker1724 It is impossible for us to know how much effort each runner expended so numbers are all we have. Van Nielirk ran 97.268% of his top speed in the first 200 while Koch ran 96.919% her best 200. Both have competed often in the 200 and 100 so there 200 best should be considered absolute.
@@thomasdematteo2281 But we do know that at higher speeds athletes expend more energy to get proportionally the same decrease in time… a 20.00 to a 19.50 is a way larger jump than a 20.50 to a 20.00. This is more apparent with slower times. The gap between a 30 and a 25 isn’t anywhere near that of the gap between a 25 and a 20. Obviously he’s a male so he’s going to run faster, but we’re talking about proportional times here
@@thomasdematteo2281 To address that second point, it’s simply incredibly misleading. Yeah, he ran both, but calling him a 200m runner would be like calling Noah Lyles a 100m runner. It’s technically not wrong, but come on now. She was far more of a 200m specialist than he was. Again, I’m not necessarily completely disagreeing with your main point, these are simply some major factors that we must consider
In '64 my missus could go under 60s for the 400m, on a regime of nicotine, alcohol and no training. If she had been East German(and not Scottish), she would still be the WR holder.🤗
How many women have doped after her and never ran close to her times. Considering all modern training techniques (which can be considered doping as well) I think she was pretty unique.
Sidney will get it.
No.
@wilhelmw3455 Koch's PR was was practically the same as Sydney's at hee age: .17 seconds difference, until she was 1 year , 4 months older...Sydney didn't even get chance during peak last summer. Gonna come back to this RUclips comment to trash talk you when she breaks it
Drugs.... Simple.
It was obvious even when I used to watch these Eastern block athletes (when I was a high school track athlete) that they appeared oddly male in their appearance---particularly their muscle definition---that they were on something that was improving their performance. Later in the 80's it turned into an epidemic.
There's no mystery here @Total Running Productions. She was on juice (same with Joyner), it's just that they simply did not have the ability to see these peptides.