I've been composing for orchestra since 1998, which is like 24 years. This video has made me aware of something that never crossed my mind before and will from now on make my composing a lot easier. I've never thought of an orchestra like a pipe organ before, but now I see it that way and see all the stops I can open and close to get the sound I need. Thank you so much
Att least you know how to orchestrate a pipe organ, and perhaps a sketch in a DAW? Despite your 24 years of experience you haven't learned the value of a process concept for beginners, that piano and the organ are instruments that attempts a full range sound with modulation, and are in fact the ultimate composition tool. Using a DAW as a piano with instruments is very useful indeed. I have taught music for 28 years. Does that really matter? My students find this idea very useful.
@@SecondTierSound am i to orchestra music past 1 year after i was not satisfied with so many videos out there but the way u explained orchestra it self it eq thats really next level super thanks
I worked with Classical orchestras for several years and I was always intrigued by the "production techniques" of any of that time especially . Which was then called "composing". I try to think about this everytime I Produce anything. It is so great that someone made a Video about this. You discuss very important topics on your channel and you do this very well. Great work!
Thank you for this excellent learning example. How you apply this feels very scientific in a musical way. It’s fascinating to imagine and realize not only the considerations of the composer of a piece but also the conductor, what they want and how they actually arrange the numbers of players but also their physical arrangement in a space. All just natural eq.
"The tapping you hear is actually the EQ plugin(s), wondering if they are going to be needed as much any more..." signed, your best friend, Orchestration.
I almost skipped this one cause not that interested in EQing. But this turned out to be an amazing lesson for anyone trying to learn orchestration in a daw without first having studied orchestration and classical orchestras. Bravo!
Another awesome video from you... thank you so much for putting in your time to help improve other musicians improve to get closer to their goals... not many people would do that ... full respect... again thank you 🙏
Wow, excellent tutorial! I never thought of mixing from this perspective. I created (taking your model) a similar long chord played by all the instruments. And then, as you did, I muted and unmuted different tracks observing how the overall sound of the chord changed. Really good stuff! One request if I may :) it would be awesome if you'd do a follow-up video, kind of like a cheatsheet with the instruments to use in high, mid, and low registers. Thanks!
This is actually how I started thinking in college. Back in 1845 they didn't have EQ, it's all based on how the music is written for the instruments. You basically do sound design in a more archaic way.
Thank you. Actually it is more about post processing than what mic, and I've just changed my mic actually. The old one was just a really cheap basic audio Technica mic. Now I have a CM2 pen mic, but that one will be outside the frame.
I would say that any info is good, if the price is reasonable. These books usually have instrument ranges-charts, specific techniques and examples, which can be very useful. But you need a good knowledge of music theory to grasp them, and they are also designed toward real orchestra orchestration. Nothing wrong with that, but it might not be that useful if you work primarily within a DAW, and these special techniques can truly only be applied by a real musician. Some people say that some of the examples to this book cost quite a bit extra, but if you don't need that it might not matter. Cheers!
Hello, I agree with you, but I have a more technical question. Why do some people cut frequencies above 16,000 Hz in their mix ? What's the advantage ? Several compressions are done in parallel on each instrument. Does this suppress the noise that could be generated in softer moments ?
Well, I don't do it myself, but the argument could be that you most people don't really hear those frequencies, and just simply want to cut out the noise that "could" be coming from recording equipment and instruments. In orchestra music, I am quite careful with compression. I do still use them, but I want them to be transparent. A parallel compression has the advantage of sounding more transparent, but still doing quite a lot of compression. Could be useful to take care of difficult frequencies, yes, but I have never used compression for removing noise in orchestral music. But perhaps a dynamic EQ? There are also some noise suppression plugins. But hey, keep experimenting :)
@@SecondTierSound What I wanted to say for the parallel compression is that you have this technique to increase the frequencies less strong so you also increase the noise. So to cut the noise that could be generated by parallel compression we cut the frequencies at 16,000 Hz with an Eq ? And yes I am doing tests at the moment with covers to check with the reference track how my arrangements, my mix and my mastering sound. I think it's a good technique to improve when you start !
I think the best way is to think what you are after, not what kind of technique you should or shouldn't use. Start with what you are trying achieve, then try with techniques that might seen logical to help with the challenge. I wouldn't use a cut of 16 mhz or, using a specific compression technique just for the sake of it. Let me know how it goes 🙂
Can you name the libraries you are using in this example?! Dominus is the one I see. I'm discovering what sound is that I'm up to, and I think this may help me. Do you also use a specifical reverb for all/ or in some tracks, or the reverb within the libraries, or another specifical processing aside from the samples. I Like the sound! Kudos for your videos!
@@SecondTierSound Hi, without wanting to bother you, I 've read in the comments down below, that you said 8 months ago, you were using Cinematic Studio Solo Strings for this example , I am searching for "that sound " for a project, without being so easy to find what I am looking for, and your example is close to that. So could you please be a bit more specifical and clarify this point! It would help me make sure I am on the right track in my Vst's purchases! Thanks a lot ! Greetings!
Hello. You are not bothering me😊. I'm pretty sure this is opus/play. I might have confused my videos with all the comments, but I'm pretty sure this is an orchestral library, and for my strings I mostly use opus. They are really good and versatile. Cinematic studio strings I actually don't own as of yet. I do have the solo strings from them, but I wouldn't use them in this scenario. Both opus and cinematic studio strings have truly excellent strings. Css is newer, a little smaller is size, and probably a little bit better legato. Both libraries require a lot of work to sound good, but can both yield fantastic, realistic results.
Texture is created by combinations of instruments or sections. Rather than "fixing" the sound with av eq, the arrangement is mostly what needs fixing, in most cases. This video is a very simple example, and the art of orchestration is a skill that needs a lot of time and dedication. Still, this is not a bad starting approach, rather than just putting on an eq. As mentioned in the video, eq is of course very appropriate as a later step when fine tuning details, but won't fix the arrangement. And no orchestrator of the 19th century thought of EQs. This video is just a way to shift your focus from plugins towards orchestration.
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I've been composing for orchestra since 1998, which is like 24 years. This video has made me aware of something that never crossed my mind before and will from now on make my composing a lot easier. I've never thought of an orchestra like a pipe organ before, but now I see it that way and see all the stops I can open and close to get the sound I need. Thank you so much
Att least you know how to orchestrate a pipe organ, and perhaps a sketch in a DAW? Despite your 24 years of experience you haven't learned the value of a process concept for beginners, that piano and the organ are instruments that attempts a full range sound with modulation, and are in fact the ultimate composition tool. Using a DAW as a piano with instruments is very useful indeed. I have taught music for 28 years. Does that really matter? My students find this idea very useful.
@@SecondTierSound am i to orchestra music past 1 year after i was not satisfied with so many videos out there but the way u explained orchestra it self it eq thats really next level super thanks
Yes, Sam! It's good what you say: "The Orchestra is the EQ"! Great! I like it!
Yes, this really made a change in my approach when I realized this.
Very interesting way to look at this. You've given me a new approach to doing my orchestration. Thanks, Sam
Ah, great! New perspectives give new possibilities.
I worked with Classical orchestras for several years and I was always intrigued by the "production techniques" of any of that time especially . Which was then called "composing". I try to think about this everytime I Produce anything. It is so great that someone made a Video about this. You discuss very important topics on your channel and you do this very well. Great work!
Thank you. I am honored to hear that from you. :)
@@SecondTierSound I am actually looking forward to your future Videos!
@@petercinfinite Ok, great!
Thank you for this excellent learning example. How you apply this feels very scientific in a musical way.
It’s fascinating to imagine and realize not only the considerations of the composer of a piece but also the conductor, what they want and how they actually arrange the numbers of players but also their physical arrangement in a space.
All just natural eq.
Yes, it is complex but very fascinating. Thank you.
Another brilliant video with some great insights. Man, I learn so much from all the experience you share. Thanks again!
Great to hear. Thank you!
"The tapping you hear is actually the EQ plugin(s), wondering if they are going to be needed as much any more..." signed, your best friend, Orchestration.
He he, perhaps. I'll make sure I'll use them now and then so they don't feel abandoned.
I almost skipped this one cause not that interested in EQing. But this turned out to be an amazing lesson for anyone trying to learn orchestration in a daw without first having studied orchestration and classical orchestras. Bravo!
Thank you! I'm glad you didn't skip it. Yes, I wanted to put a twist to the "normal EQ tutorial". Cheers!
Another awesome video from you... thank you so much for putting in your time to help improve other musicians improve to get closer to their goals... not many people would do that ... full respect... again thank you 🙏
Thank you for your kind words. I am happy it is useful
Well said, Robert.
Thanks a lot for the video 💙🎵
As someone who is just starting out with music creation on computers, this was very interesting
Great!
"The orchestra itself is an EQ" 🤯🤯🤯
Yes of course🙂
Nailed it with the opening line LOL
"The live orchestra itself is the EQ..." Very smart!
Thank you. It is the way orchestrators have always thought, especially before the invention of the EQ.
Wow, excellent tutorial! I never thought of mixing from this perspective. I created (taking your model) a similar long chord played by all the instruments. And then, as you did, I muted and unmuted different tracks observing how the overall sound of the chord changed. Really good stuff!
One request if I may :) it would be awesome if you'd do a follow-up video, kind of like a cheatsheet with the instruments to use in high, mid, and low registers. Thanks!
Ok, I will come up with something soon. Cheers!
Excellent!! Subscribed!!!
Cheers!
This is actually how I started thinking in college. Back in 1845 they didn't have EQ, it's all based on how the music is written for the instruments. You basically do sound design in a more archaic way.
Yes, and there is no eq in a live performance either 😊
Ty!
What mic do you use to talk with. Sounds amazing! Thank you in advance! Great video my friend!
Thank you. Actually it is more about post processing than what mic, and I've just changed my mic actually. The old one was just a really cheap basic audio Technica mic. Now I have a CM2 pen mic, but that one will be outside the frame.
Wonderful!❤️
Cheers!
Hello. Love your channel. What VST did you use for this orchestra? It sounds very good
Thank you! In this example I was using the Cinematic Studio Solo Strings. Yes, it is a good library. All of their libraries are.
How to eq an orchestr: learn orchestration. Nice.
Btw, I've heard that Samuel Adler's book of orchestration is good for learning. Do you recommend it?
I would say that any info is good, if the price is reasonable. These books usually have instrument ranges-charts, specific techniques and examples, which can be very useful. But you need a good knowledge of music theory to grasp them, and they are also designed toward real orchestra orchestration. Nothing wrong with that, but it might not be that useful if you work primarily within a DAW, and these special techniques can truly only be applied by a real musician. Some people say that some of the examples to this book cost quite a bit extra, but if you don't need that it might not matter.
Cheers!
Hello,
I agree with you, but I have a more technical question.
Why do some people cut frequencies above 16,000 Hz in their mix ?
What's the advantage ?
Several compressions are done in parallel on each instrument. Does this suppress the noise that could be generated in softer moments ?
Well, I don't do it myself, but the argument could be that you most people don't really hear those frequencies, and just simply want to cut out the noise that "could" be coming from recording equipment and instruments.
In orchestra music, I am quite careful with compression. I do still use them, but I want them to be transparent. A parallel compression has the advantage of sounding more transparent, but still doing quite a lot of compression. Could be useful to take care of difficult frequencies, yes, but I have never used compression for removing noise in orchestral music. But perhaps a dynamic EQ? There are also some noise suppression plugins. But hey, keep experimenting :)
@@SecondTierSound What I wanted to say for the parallel compression is that you have this technique to increase the frequencies less strong so you also increase the noise.
So to cut the noise that could be generated by parallel compression we cut the frequencies at 16,000 Hz with an Eq ?
And yes I am doing tests at the moment with covers to check with the reference track how my arrangements, my mix and my mastering sound.
I think it's a good technique to improve when you start !
I think the best way is to think what you are after, not what kind of technique you should or shouldn't use. Start with what you are trying achieve, then try with techniques that might seen logical to help with the challenge. I wouldn't use a cut of 16 mhz or, using a specific compression technique just for the sake of it. Let me know how it goes 🙂
That si where I am now after too many years mixing ISO orchestrating ....
You and me both!
Can you name the libraries you are using in this example?! Dominus is the one I see. I'm discovering what sound is that I'm up to, and I think this may help me. Do you also use a specifical reverb for all/ or in some tracks, or the reverb within the libraries, or another specifical processing aside from the samples. I Like the sound! Kudos for your videos!
Thank you. I think that in this video it is all opus, and then the built in convolution reverb from cubase.
@@SecondTierSound Hi, without wanting to bother you, I 've read in the comments down below, that you said 8 months ago, you were using Cinematic Studio Solo Strings for this example , I am searching for "that sound " for a project, without being so easy to find what I am looking for, and your example is close to that. So could you please be a bit more specifical and clarify this point! It would help me make sure I am on the right track in my Vst's purchases! Thanks a lot ! Greetings!
Hello. You are not bothering me😊.
I'm pretty sure this is opus/play. I might have confused my videos with all the comments, but I'm pretty sure this is an orchestral library, and for my strings I mostly use opus. They are really good and versatile. Cinematic studio strings I actually don't own as of yet. I do have the solo strings from them, but I wouldn't use them in this scenario.
Both opus and cinematic studio strings have truly excellent strings. Css is newer, a little smaller is size, and probably a little bit better legato. Both libraries require a lot of work to sound good, but can both yield fantastic, realistic results.
@@SecondTierSound Thanks a lot! Very much appreciated indeed!
This is so wrong. What if I do want those secrions playing? Then what?
Texture is created by combinations of instruments or sections. Rather than "fixing" the sound with av eq, the arrangement is mostly what needs fixing, in most cases. This video is a very simple example, and the art of orchestration is a skill that needs a lot of time and dedication. Still, this is not a bad starting approach, rather than just putting on an eq. As mentioned in the video, eq is of course very appropriate as a later step when fine tuning details, but won't fix the arrangement. And no orchestrator of the 19th century thought of EQs. This video is just a way to shift your focus from plugins towards orchestration.
Man didn’t eq anything
Well, you missed the point of the video :)