Why Casual and Competitive Yu-Gi-Oh! Players Argue
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
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#YuGiOh #dzeeff
Competitive players: fking casual scrub
Casual players: bloody meta sheep
Zhao Yikang Rest if the population: You play yugioh, weirdo.
Brother Tracy Stone The plays are what matter, but you will always have a significant advantage if you bought better cards and someone else already figured out how to play your deck.
What if they use the more link-focused Trickstar stuff (or just anything post Circuit Break)?
Adam Le I also don’t mind spyrals and I was on tcg player the other day and it is at lower than $90 mainly without hand traps.
I don’t mind competitive players or casual players but when I watch a video on pro play games or thecardguys cause they have no emotion in the videos and thumbnail
Meta Shape?
Konami loves this. It keeps players from uniting against the real enemy of the people.
Maskedduelist 13 real enemy? Are you serious? It's just a card game dude
Riccardo Saccà That's what they want you to think. Keep playing right into their hands.
ha nice pun
oh Trump?
Maskedduelist 13 If you spend hundreds of dollars on a game, that makes you a whale.
You're just salty that Panik lost against Yugi because of swords of revealing light...
Technically he lost because they went away.
Matt Cornell , Raphael did nothing wrong when he beat up Muhammed in response to 9/11/2001.
LUL
You mean when he used his catapult turtle to launch his dragon champion at the castle of dark illusions, thereby shattering its floatation ring and causing it to collapse on top of the monsters?
... the anime was a load of bollocks
What about the time when Kaiba blocked a Mirror Force with a negate attack? Just some more anime BS
I think my dislike of the meta and competitive players stems entirely from one guy who used to go to my locals. He was the only guy there who really played competitively, and he was one of the most smug assholes I've ever met. He always had the top deck as soon as it came out, and was sure to let everyone know about it. I distinctly remember him buying a full Inzektor deck the week the set released, and then proudly proclaiming that "anyone who isn't playing this deck is either too poor to afford it or two stupid to know it's broken." He had an open and vocal contempt for everyone there, and was clearly less interested in an actual competitive match, and more interested in easily beating down casuals with his expensive meta decks.
I realize now that most competitive players aren't like that, and I've grown to understand and accept the competitive community as peers who are having fun in their own way, but my early experiences with that guy shaped my perspective of the game; It's what drove me to want to beat the meta with cheap rogue decks.
I wonder how many people are the same, how many casuals have let one bad player paint their perspective of the entire competitive playerbase?
Likewise, how many competitive players have had the same happen in reverse? I could certainly see how listening to one person angrily rant about how great Neo Spacians are could make it seem like the casual community is as a bunch of unreasonable idiots who don't know how to play the game.
td;rl: I think they argue because there's a minority of jackasses on both sides that people come to associate with the entire group.
I agree however a deck like blue-eyes can beat pendulum magician if you side deck and your opponent starts with a less good hand and your hand is the best possible by the way I love the deck build challenge that is what casual play should be not people arguing with other players how there Deck is unfair.
Did that same player have a little brother, was very smug, a lot of money, and an obsession with someone who beat him with really weird hair?
Are you also a blonde Japanese kid with a Brooklyn accent who up till recently has been playing with 40 monster cards?
Man hardleg I ran into a guy like that once back in the day. He was mad annoying and made me hate meta players for a while. Then one day me and my friends playing just told dude to shut the f*** up or catch these hands. He left everyone alone after that.
Was he saying : "Screw the rules I have money!"? ;P
I topped my locals with a deck made out of only casual players. Very expensive.
Gavin Erickson Fuck yeah it would be expensive. You're using actually casual players as cards.
no shit sherlock
with skin or without skin?
@@TheBosc Well I had to put them in sleeves, otherwise I'd be cheating.
Both casual and competitive elitists can be some of the worst people you will ever meet. I unfortunately had experiences with these people.
Divine_Wrath Arent all elitists always the worst part of a fandom?
Elitists are terrible. Both for the Meta players and the casual players
elitist are always bad but casual elitist are the worst in everything. they think they know every in and out but they understand nothing about the topic.
@@itsthekid9815 That's a extremely general Statement
@@itsthekid9815 they truly are Dunning-Kreugers
The competitive players I know at locals actually enjoy playing casual players because they are surprised by some card choices I play casual and play fluffals they done me good at few regionals too and have gotten respect by the competitive players because of how well I done
I feel you buddy, but there's the flufal level of casual players, and there's the yugi muto's 2005 deck level
I played convulsion of nature in my fluffal deck at a tournament so I could always know what I was going to draw with toy vendor. I got wreck by Chaos Max Dragon in a 0-2 game, got salty and quit after only 1 match.
Buddah A-1 fluffals if they are built correctly are rogue not casual
I have a friend that is an actual Pro. I play Magical Muskets, and we go toe to toe he plays things like Danger! Thunder Dragons... it is hard he makes me better when I play him, and he always provides constructive criticism which also makes me a better player.
yeah, its refreshing seeing different decks outside the Meta
This isn't "Top 10 'Do Something' Cards" :(
Honestly, casual and meta players should be less at each other's throats and be more upset with Konami for how small the competitve-tier card pool is and how net decking can't really be avoided. Sure, you can 'evolve' the last champion deck by throwing in new cards, but often times they're from the same limited card pool. I feel like if the game were slower and more cards were relevant in meta decks, casual players would stop being salty for not being able to use their favorite cards, and meta players would stop being annoyed by fringe decks trying to be competitive.
Holly Perry but compeditive players don't want a large compeditive pool. That format a couple years ago that had like 9 compeditive decks was a nightmare for them because it "so hard to build a side" that a top 3 deck format is comfortable for them to stay in
Rarity Opalescence You love yugioh?
It doesn't look like that
Yugioh has always been a fast deck and that's what most competitive players like about it
Noah Martinez it's not necessarily the game's pacing, it's the speed of the game as a whole. Entire card types are being power crept because they're too slow and dat doesn't feel right. Like traps used to be a core part of Yu-Gi-Oh! but no one even plays them anymore. Combo plays r rly fun and I love big plays, but things like monarch ,back when they were meta, don't necessarily have crazy combos but they win if they simply play first. Same with handtraps, there's no thought or player interaction, it's a simple negate anytime, anywhere that wins games instantly :/
stephen lee I kind of understood you when you said handtraps
I really don't know what you people want
You don't want big boards that don't let you play if they start
But you don't want handtraps to stop them
That's what make me think that you all just don't like yugioh
You just like your illusion of yugioh of playing like in the anime
I honestly like yugioh the way it is
I don't want to be playing one duel for 20 minutes, I love how fast it is
I also don't want to be playing or facing the same deck for more than two months
I like the variety this "powercreep" provides
If you are uncomfortable with the way yugioh is today maybe you should consider looking for a game you actually like
Sorry if I'm being rude but that's just the image you all give me
Rarity Opalescence pacing issue? I don't see it, most of the competitive players like yugioh because of its pace
There is no issue to be solved
And except for zoodiac and one or two weeks of spyral we haven't had a tier 0 format in years
Even zoodiac wasn't really a tier 0 because you had a lot of zoodiac variants
Of course you will hate it if you didn't want to spent in the zoodiac core but it was a really fun format
Spyral might not be fun but you can beat it with trickstars, pend magician, infernoid, lightsworn zombies, etc
It is not a tier 0 format after the last banlist
This sounded more like a rant.
Gilgamesh almost every video he uploads is a little rant in disguise
fhsrthj jtryhjert lol yea kinda
So it's not just me
Dont all of his videos?
@Shannon Randolph You're literally repeating what he says casual players typically do.
You didn't really talk about why they argue. You just talked about how casual players are wrong for 12 minutes.
And he wonders why casual and competitive players argue.
I think there are two kinds of "casual" players:
a) Players that think Blue Eyes are meta and hate Pot of Desires.
b) Players that understand the metagame and choose to play decks with 443508375037 engines for the meme cred and are trying to get a win against meta players as the underdog.
basicaly the difference between a scrub and a casual player
I follow the conpetable meta and adapt and overcome to get some wins with my blue eyes Dragon deck during a tournament at my shop! If you want to win tournaments you have to spend money and I choose to play causal because In my opion to play meta in yugioh is to expensive! Players? Have respect for both sides we are one community if we are trash talk to the other side new players keep away!
jogabonito1848 I used to be a, then I threw a copy of Pot of Desires in my Blue-Eyes deck and discovered how much I liked the card. Although I came to realize Blue-Eyes isn't Meta in Zoo format when I couldn't beat that shit if my life depended on it.
Now in SPYRAL format I had hope until I got bodied by good ol' Firewall bouncing.
I'm either gonna play the Pendulum Magicians that I'm testplaying when they become better or make my Blue-Eyes unbeatable.
Pokémon Trainer Jacob every thing loses to somthing
I just like to play the decks I think are cool and that have a mechanic i enjoy, what can I do if they are not top tier? i personally love gimmicks and crazy mixes, I have phantasm spyral, the normal monster deck and a Demsie Felgrand ft.Speelbook, I also have a Dinomist ft.Symphonic engine
Dzeeeffff was TRIGGGGERRREDDD by that salty comment.
Im waiting on a deck of alchemists so i can play a full metal alchemist deck
metalfoes
weeb play some cheap competetiv deck instead you can probably get 60 card ls for like 50 bucks
DRAG Lol i play pendulum magicians. Hush up.
Craig Wortham ive played metalfoe for a bit. Its pretty alrightvbut the deck is just psychic motocross. Im talkin alchemic beasts or something liike that.
That wacky alchemist
I think that its less casual players whining in the comment section and more idiots whining in the comment section
True that
Its really just depends on the person.
I'm sorry, but as much as you claim you were a casual player and understand casual players, I just paused this video at 8:11, and for this entire video so far you've done nothing but put down casual players and have argued like a lawyer why your client, Mr. Competitive, is innocent of all crimes.
Every single point you make is how casual players are wrong about competitive players.
Not once have you defended a casual player.
Now, if I finish this video, will you suddenly change focus for the next 6 minutes to attack competitive players?
Possibly, but probably not as when I paused this you were in the middle of talking down to casual players.
So even if you switched sides after the point at which I paused the video, you have spent more time telling casual players they are wrong about competitive players than anything else.
Side note: Finding fun in winning is not the same as finding fun in Yu-Gi-Oh. If winning is what you find fun, then the subject of the card game or even which card game it is doesn't matter. This could be Magic, Heathstone, Pokemon TCG, fricken even Cardfight Vanguard. You just happened to pick up Yu-Gi-Oh first and it's the one you bothered to study, but it could have been anything with a decent competitive scene. If you define fun by winning, the game doesn't matter as long as you win. If Yu-Gi-Oh suddenly vanished from Earth, you'd simply switch to another game to get your fix of winning.
Don't bother finishing the video.
At the very end he quite literally says "And hopefully I've brought up some points about why the casual players are wrong about competitive players being toxic and why competitive players are right about casual players being toxic".
And he wonders why the two sides argue?
Drew Armstrong, The Glorious Lobster Emperor In a way, he's actually explaining it perfectly. Look at it like this: the points he made weren't the actual points as to why there's a huge division between a lot of competitives and a lot of casuals. The real point (unintentional though it may have been) is the way he went about it and his general tone. Elitist dickishness (which can happen on all sides and the blame is split mostly evenly, though I'd personally say It's a little worse from the comp extreme, which he displays quite effectively) is the cause of division, which he perfectly characterised. That's the real toxicity of our city.
Of course, that's not what he meant, but it's overall a more fitting and true interpretation of this video. Which is a shame because he's clearly got smarts and does put a lot of good information into a lot of his videos. He just can't resist the urge to unilaterally try to dunk on people who enjoy the game differently than he does.
@Millennium iDuskk Cap: Competitive + Tony: Casual = Yugioh Civil War
Sparks is broken because I won a game with it when I FTKd my opponent in a 1 LP sudden death duel
Comment section's gonna be fantastic calling it now....
*grabs popcorn*
Starts playing William Tell Overture
I am a 15 year casual player, never put too much money in the the game. It just seems like some competitive players c a deck profile and just copy it, or make a bunch of decks that they can't play because they just slap them together. I use ancient gears and accept that I will lose to spyrals and other arch types. It's not that serious, especially for a 40 Dollar investment. It's fun testing my crap on good decks, and it's actually pretty good.
*im not really meaning to super call anyone out
Only focuses on trashing casual players.....
Personally to me the reason they argue is just that people love this game, thus when they see someone who doesn't fit their ideology about what the game should be played like, they will get upset with them. Note this applies to everyone, casual and competitive. As such people need to chill out some and just enjoy the game. It's a game the point is to have fun, i think thats something everyone can agree to.
TheReapers520 I agree with this, I have heard that casual players wish the game was played with ppls own original deck aka random cards, but competitive players have much more structured decks and what they love is winning, which is much different ideology
did you know: FANS DONT LIKE TO BE ALIANATED
im sick of konami keep releasing op cards, that is why pokemon is more popular than yugioh 7 times. when pendulum were released, i think its going to have a major backlash for dissmissing the reason behind tribute summon and normal summon,but no, the community just go with it
lets look at xyz monsters, when they were released, their concept was simple, they have short lasting effect but effective nothing too op, but today, we have card like baguska,ebon magician and s39 that define xyz monsters existence
pokemon is a good example of why yugioh population decreased, the game know clearly what should and should not be a fair pokemon, it have a clear stadard for its franchise. pokemon never alianate the fans, it keep things evolve slow enough making sure nothing over the top and know when to stop.
@momiji lily Yet cards like Lysandre's Trump Card came out in recent years plants which it had to be banned and the Expanded format constantly has to ban cards like Forest of Giant Plants due to piss poor card design.
Pokemon has their share of design blunders too.
I think I’d be able to appreciate this video more if its title felt more fitting. As it stands, the title, “Why Casual and Competitive Yu-Gi-Oh Players Argue” makes it sound like you’ll be talking about both groups’ reasons for arguing - but you spend basically the entire video arguing against things you’ve seen casual players say, and all the things they “can’t seem to accept.” Sure, a title like, “Debunking Casual Arguments” would spark some controversy, but if it’s literally what the video is, I think you should own that. Otherwise, the video comes off disingenuous, and honestly, in some places (“the most asinine argument”) like a poorly masked rant.
I agree with you whole hardheartedly but he is a competitive player so his view will lead more toward complaining about casuals
You're just salty because you lost to dark bribe mill :3
"I fight for both sides" proceeds to bash casual players the whole video
funny guy YUP
Casual players tend to be the people getting butthurt about his videos, regardless of how well supported his arguments are, not the other way around. This isn't bashing casuals, if anything he's being way too nice.
The important thing is having fun doesn't matter if your a budget player, a competitive player or a meta player just play the game do your best and always have fun
EXACTLY
personal experience: Competitive players are more likely to be toxic to casuals than the opposite way around.
Personal experience:Competitive elite and casual elite are the prolem, form my personal experience i meet more casual elite then competitive elite
I am a casual and my Pro friends are the best people I play against. They provide very useful constructive criticism, and it makes me a better player. While there are toxic pros and competitive players. I've personally seen more casual players be toxic (I've done it). There is a good chance that the competitive is trying to help you by giving constructive feedback and the casual player takes it as them being elitist, when no, they want their opponents to be better so they can have more fun.
While I can agree with you, especially when you win or lose, casual players can't take advice. I've tried to help a casual player with deck building and he always asks "Why?" in a hostile tone when I tell him he shouldn't play this. Like one situation in general: "You shouldn't be running Magic Cylinder, it's popped easily and can be negated easily." He looked up and replied "Well, I won like 8 duels with this so you're wrong." Now normally, I would take this with a grain of salt, but this is a guy that couldn't touch top 64 of a locals because of his choices.
I agreed with pretty much everything you said here, however, you're totally ignoring the things that competitive players do wrong to the casual playerbase or in general.
"Wah wah im virtue signaling bc MUH FEELINGS ARE HURT"
Grow up. Competitive players know what they are doing and will give advice for players who WANT to learn, not whiny scrubs like CapG. He thinks Lunalights are good of all things so you know his opinion doesnt mean squat.
Competitive player opinion> Casual player opinion on optimal decks,techs,engines etc.
DeltaTheAwsome PSYFrame You either got bait or you’re just plain stupid. Casual players play for fun and don’t necessarily have to know every interaction with ever card or ever situation. CapG is a casual player and he has admitted that Lunalitas will never be a good deck. You are one of the reason why causal players hate on competitive players. You completely undermined this guy’s opinion.
ya I undermined it bc its misinformed. DUH
Mans out here dont know what common sense is
The point is who cares? Nobody. Casuals will be casuals and competitives will be competitives. If you like talking to either one then do as you like. Same if you don't.
@Pascal Projecting much? Did I strike a nerve? Cant handle brutal honesty? GTFO The internet softy.
You heard it casuals: The reason why Casuals and Competitives argue is because Casuals are just too mean! It's not because Competitives like Doug call every card a casual might like bad and they're bad for liking it, it's because Casuals go out of their way to be mean to Competitives who are just trying to be nice. You heard it here first.
Nightmare Troubadour well put
Morty let me tell you something
Here's a reframe: When the two groups argue, comp players can say "I am right and have proof". Casual players don't like that because they feel entitled to having their opinion be seen as equally valid.
Table 500 decks are the heroes we need in this game.
f. g i really miss you
Yeah, I really miss myself too.
Strangely enough that's where you'll find HEROes.
I think Dzeeff is just salty cause he always loses to casual players.
not sure if you trollin or you really mean it
he realy means it dua
pretty sure its trolling
Doug gets regional tops and goes to YCS's. Casual players appear in locals and regionals more often than YCS's. If they were that common, how did he manage to get an invite? Thinking..
The only point I disagree on is the "fun" one. We've got our little table of competitive guys at my locals and they sit at a table in the back and scowl at everyone for 5 hours
Almost like exceptions exist.
Fun is subjective :)
Pretty sure he’s talking in a more general sense, there are still those casual nice people and those competitive assholes
Which is problematic when the entire video is generalizations...
Which he specifically called out near the beginning. "X sort of players *generally* don't think this about Y sort of players." Exceptions will almost always exist for anything you say about groups of people.
Ive been playin Yugioh since 2002, Pokemon since 99, and MTG since 2005. Still to this day. Competitive and casual. And i can tell everyone from experience that for the most part, the competitive tryhards WILL look down on the casuals. That is just a fact. The toxic crowd exists in all these communities. And casuals do indeed show salt when they try to outdo a tryhard with a gimmicky strat but then fail. But u have to understand that the yugioh crowd specifically is the most notorious for this toxic behavior. I see it all the time at tournaments where player crowds dont even look at you, kinda with disgust. And at locals, if u try to play with a fun deck, everyone just ignores you like youre not worth their time. Good ideas could come from anywhere so while some overlooked cards are being used by scrubs, tryhards could get inspiration from that and build upon it. Casuals also need to understand that the game will evolve over time and that what was a good card a month or 2 ago is now banned or irrelevant. Now imagine those old cards they try to play with from '03. Yet they expect to outspeed or dominate the board in the current meta. Yea, not gonna happen. The point is we, the yugioh community, need to get better and less toxic when playing or strategizing and not shun the competitive or casuals for doin the game how they want to play. Actually enjoy the game with everyone instead of segregating each other.
I thought this was "Why Casual and Competitive Yu-Gi-Oh! Players Argue"? This is "Problems With Casual Players." You mention your casual roots but there is an obvious bias for being competitive man.
I feel like this video was very one sided. While you pointed out a lot of problems with casual players, you hardly did with competitive players. While casual players are at fault for the argument, so are competitive players.
This video would have been done better if you made it sound less bias.
+Shourockow After being both a casual player and a competitive player, I objectively think casuals are the ones making false arguments the loudest and most often
dzeeff I believe the reason you hear more casuals getting angry is *because* of the fact your on the more competitive side. Usually you wont hear that many insults from the people that agree with all you say. As a casual myself, i get that some of the people on our side are very intolerable. But you cant just look at the bad apples in our group then call them the majority than ignore the bad apples on your side as if their the extreme minority. Think about it, if you look at most of the supposed *good* casuals in the room, most of them just let themselvez get beat down by the competitive player. As a casual, you must constantly trash the decks you love by calling them terrible, because if you even make the mistake of feeling a little bit proud about them and you get beaten you are labeled a scrub or that you suck for playing certain cards. Your telling me you had fun letting people trash your deck and joining them on it too? Because not everyone likes to constantly put down their favorite cards just to appeal to the competitive players egos. Theres nothing wrong with making fun of ones own casual deck for being bad, but when thats the only thing your allowed to do that kind of takes the fun out of it. You made a point in your video that some competitive players spend days on their deck trying to make them good, but did it never come to mind that casuals do that too? I have spent hours and hours on decks and even spent days on some of them just to fail miserably. I dont know about you, but working hard on a deck you like trying to make it work just to fail and be called bad isnt fun and most people would agree with me there. Again im not saying casuals are all innocent, but despite you used to being a casual you still seemed to be extremely biased towards the casual side as if we are the main source of most of the beef between the two when in reality the entire player base needs some work. You tried to make it seem like you were being objective but only spoke about the bad ways casuals looked at things.
dzeeff A conclusion drawn from your own experience isn’t objective; it’s anecdotal.
dzeeff I don't see that as true because the majority of people who play Yugioh (at my locals at least) are competitive. That has been the same for the different locals I've been to as well. Maybe in the comments causal mentality seams loud, but it isn't the majority.
For example:
There are scrubby competitive players and smart casual players. Players who pay $80 for each Ash and are still bad at the game.
Competitive players sayin you should use card A instead of card B, when you can't afford card A (and argue about it). Unless you are going to give me the card for free don't force me play it.
Competitive players mostly never stick with a deck, they buy whatever deck is the most powerful despite if they like it or not.
That last one gets to me because I used to play blue eyes casual until 2016 when it hit meta, and now I play pend magicians. But I still have my blue eyes deck and will never get rid of it. I completely understand why casual players use the term "meta sheep" because it's mostly true.
I don't understand why someone will go to locals without their favorite deck and won't play outside the draft.
dzeeff But that last bit is just me pointing out the competitive side (and you already did for the casual side). I truly think the problem is about 50 50, and you can't get a solution just attack one side's faults.
I think that you're spending too much time falling for obvious troll behavior. Casual or competitive players don't matter in the end. Konami wants and gets our money.
The only issue I have with your videos is your very dismissive stance towards people just getting into the community or very casual players. Your idea that you're giving the advice you wish you got when you were casual isn't an excuse for the attitude of superiority you take.
With the platform you have, you should be doing more to inform without the attitude. Remove the ego and teach players why things work or don't work without insulting the person learning.
Paul VonEvil fr
+meme Hierarchy No, you love him very conditionally; I doubt that you would continue watching if this suddenly turned into a makeup channel.
Hooded Man lol I watch Jeffree Star so yeah...
Ysee. I think Dzeef may get too triggered by his own comments section. Granted, its given him some good content tho. Explaining the same thing over and over again ad nauseam would make anyone have an attitude.
You've explained the correct way to make a PB&J, 3 times. And then you have people making very specific complaints and specific scenarios when you're being general.
"Oh I use spoons to spread my PB and J, you just dont know how to make it"
"Only a scrub uses white bread, wheat bread is meta"
And I dont think he has an attitude, that's just the way he talks. I sound very sarcastic naturally, so I get it.
Hey man!
I find it hard to believe that those comments weren't trolls -- Your community seems to find "much humor" in the "cards Dzeef has called trash" memes (especially that card trade/solemn wishes comment; eventually, there will be "50 card combos" posted here [each card in the combo, will be a card that you gave a poor review]).
Hey Hill Win, I was looking through the comment to see if anybody commented on that part since I'm the one whom wrote that comment, but he seems to have gotten my comment mixed up with someone else's since I didn't leave any salty comment to those whom was kind enough to reply.
Here Is the original comment:
-
So I'm super casual and probably wouldn't be here if I wasn't binge watching Little Kuriboh (YGOTAS) at the moment. So correct me if wrong, but wouldn't Solemn Wishes combined with Card Trader be super useful in a Ra deck or something like that? That's 1000 LP per turn and being able to replacing the cards on your hand is amazing when you're looking to fulfil some specific summening condition. But the game has changes, SoulExchange is apparently a bad card now, so what do I know.
I also stumbled upon a comment whom said:
"I don't think Solemn Wishes is that bad. It's probably one of the cards that makes the Original Winged Dragon of Ra work the best (without Sphere Mode) That doesn't mean it's good, and the deck isn't either, but it's not useless."
And that was kind of the Idea I was going for, but I haven't played Yu-gi-oh in 6 years or something like that, so it was more ment as an offhand remark (something to notice). I kind off feel bad for the casuals whom still play the game, since I accidentally undermined the points they were trying to make.
Title of the video: "Why Casual and Competitive Yu-Gi-Oh! Players Argue"
What the video is actually about: "Don't touch me, you filthy casual!" xD
I am pretty sure you misunderstood everything. I'm my experience casual players (myself included) can be toxic to the game. There are toxic pros he never denied that... it is just few and far between.
For real.
You didn't watch the video
@@imarock6497you're an idiot
Video title does not match video content. Basically entire video is an argument for "The casual community is the problem."
Alright, I tried my reasonable comment. Now here's how I actually feel.
This video isn't answering the question of why casual and competitive players argue. It's sucking the competitive group off and listing every reason why casual players are bad.
Starting to see why we argue now?
llmao
Yea, i like dzeef but this video is pretty bad.
So basically the real name of the video is "why casual players don't understand competitive play". Not complaining, just saying.
Fun. That's the only reason that I really play. A game if supposed to be fun, so if you take it too seriously, then you may wind up taking all the fun out if it.
Fun is also subjective. I have fun making a deck with a high win rate and solidifying my ratios. I like to examine every game I play and find the best course of action. That's fun for me
NoobSlayerAdvanced
Indeed. :) My own definition for fun is just to play, and if I had a good time, it was fun.
So this video was suppose to be why they argue, and instead you spent the video defending competitive and saying why casuals in your opinion "whine". I play both ways, and so am unbiased as to either side, but this is my observation of your video. Not good form, dude..
Literally the only reason this video will spur more arguments is because you spent the video being one sided, instead of speaking on the negatives of competitive players as well. You put all the heat on casuals.
He quite literally spends the entire video bitching about how competitive players are all perfect and casual players are toxic.
And he wonders why the two sides argue.
In my experience I’ve only meet a few competitive ass hats, more often then not it’s the casual player who is the snob. And they always used decks that main characters used too.
Lee High he literally said in the video that he's played both ways as well
You're talking a lot about the super casual players, the ones that use things like dark bribe in their mixed decks. There's a whole another topic that I think people want to hear is competitive and rogue players. From what I've seen over all the tournaments I've judged and online play there's more rogue players than those super casual players, where they actually argue cause rogue has actual potential to beat meta moreover than the magic cylinder ftw, and that gets into actual arguments because a spyral player loses to a kozmo player 2-0, and now has to drop cause he won't get the top.
Dzeef: I've been both a competitive and a casual player
Also Dzeef: Casual players are wrong, competitive is right and here's why
Dude, at least try to hide your bias.
Mario Banegas Glad you noticed too
"They care about the game more than you do" is where i stopped listening
They do. They invest more time in deck profiles, in card searches, in engines and interactions and matchup knowledge and practice. Casual players have no idea what is required to be competitive.
What shows more that you care about the game: A mentally-conjured flame of passion or time spent? Results speak.
@@itanocircus2077 that perspective really strikes at the core of the problem. You only see one valid avenue to invest in the game, competition and optimization. It is possible to invest time, energy, and passion into this game that aren't a rush toward high-level competition. The fact that competitive players assume that less competitive players are less invested just because they invest differently is why the groups don't get along. Competitive players simply don't respect other ways to care about this game.
@@JusticeFrogs Competitive players are invested, casual players are divested.
At the end of the day, it's still a card game, and we are weebs with no life.
We? Dont project yourself onto us.I just body people with cards. Thats it. I dont say MONSTA CARDO or anything like that
DeltaTheAwsome PSYFrame It's a card game based on a over the top anime. If you're not even a little bit of weeb, then this game isn't for you.
MasterSwagKing Ah yes. The old "I'm a big shot on the internet" gag. Yesterday I met a special forces member who trained in ninjitsue.
MasterSwagKing I can't even respond to that because I don't understand what the hell you just said.
🤣🤣
Rename this video "Bashing Casual Players", it's a much more accurate title.
I love your videos, but you specifically say you're pointing out faults on both sides, yet 95% of the video is about only casual players and the faults of the most toxic players and those faults being applied to "casual players" as a whole.
Anyway, I think most of it stems from the fact that--over the last some years of *all* kinds of gaming, including, if not mostly, video games--arrogant, condescending assholes have changed the defintion of "casual" from simply "non-competitive" or "for fun" to "invalid drooling babies". To call someone a casual player no longer simply means they don't play competitively or (in the case of single-player games) don't min-max their character or 100% every game, because it now means that that player knows nothing about the game/has no idea what they're doing/is ruining the game or series/deserves to be condescended to/etc. Don't act like competitive players are innocent here, and "oh they're only being neutral and helpful and objective", because there are plenty of competitive players, even for non-competitive games, that utterly shit on anyone even slightly less-skilled than them or anyone that even plays differently.
"they aren't considering your match as part of there 'real tournament experience' and they are basically considering you a 'free win'".
That's it. That is the problem. That's why casual players hate competitive players.
It has nothing to do with them playing meta decks.
It has nothing to do with them being a competitive player.
It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that competitive players have no respect for casual players.
Competitive players largely consider casuals to be the "trash" of Yu-Gi-Oh. And this can be said for any competitive game.
Casual players wish competitive players would simply lighten up and not EVERYTHING so God damn serious all the time.
But competitive players wish casuals would go the fuck away. Especially if they ever lose to a casual.
Couldn't tell you how many times I've heard competitive players say some shit like "I lost to the fucking scrub playing magnet warriors. I just bricked like hell both games. Fucking loser is gonna fuck up my tie breakers."
Yes, casuals quite often hate competitive players, but they hate them for legitimate reasons.
Competitive players hate casuals solely because they're casuals. They wish casuals didn't exist at all.
maxie fuqua Try to avoid generalization. Not ever competitive player thinks like that.
I play on both ends of the spectrum, and I encourage all players. Want to play fabled? Crystal beast? Pure psy-frames? Cool, we can work it to make it competitive as possible. Not interested in that? That's fine, but don't start complaining that the meta is too strong because you can't play your technically inferior deck.
I do agree the competitive scene can be toxic at times, but that is in all games out there with a competitive and fun aspect to it.
My biggest gripe is the select few casuals who refuse to change everything and want you to be on their level, and even when you stoop to their level , they lose and are just as salty.
Towards the competitive seen is, in the end, it is a game, so don't start attacking the player that you "scrubbed" out. Even the strongest deck can hilariously lose to something jank.
I used to be in the casual portion of the game for 6 or 8 years of ygo, if that's any consolation?
Alex Garcia Fantauzzi
I typically do try to avoid generalizations, but in this instance it's completely justified.
Sure you can say "not all competitive players", and that's a completely valid argument. The same can be said for ANY generalization. But most people already know generalizations aren't entirely true. There's really no need in the "not all..." Comment.
But the OVERWHELMING majority of competitive players I've interacted with think like this. It's not that they hate casuals, it's that they have no respect for them. They believe that you should be playing competitively or not playing at all.
To be fair, if you are playing some un-deck with no notable tournament usage, Im not learning anything as the deck you play isnt relevant. The matchup isnt statistically significant enough for me to care. As a competitive player would like to win and learn from losses and know my matchups.
maxie fuqua Generalizing again are you? No one cares if you want to play a casual deck at locals. But when a competitive deck steam rolls you and you get salty you don't get to complain. Most meta players really just want to help people get better at the game.
Not really though. It's nice to go against a sub-optimal monarch deck after going 4 rounds against SPYrals, Reincarnation+Droll, Bagooska turn 1 and Dragon Buster Turbo. They don't hate casuals for being casuals. It's just often casuals with casual decks cannot get on the same level as a $700 meta deck with triple 5head and triple Ghost ogre. That's the thing though. Competitive players are competitive, casuals are casuals. If you try to lighten up at major tournaments, you go 0-7. Hence why they're COMPETITIVE. They want to win. It's not that hard to get my dude
"What do you enjoy, playing the game or winning?"
I still don't get how I'm supposed to justify $500 on cardboard
ElTwOJaY YOU DON’T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING!!!
ElTwOJaY play Pokemon their are actual cash rewards for winning and thier cards are alot cheaper the price doesn't jump that high because you can common every card I play bolth casually my money goes mostly to videogames lol
Its a truth, if you Wana be competitive in Yu-Gi-Oh there's a pay wall
ElTwOJaY oh ya I was agreeing with ya man just telling be ya pokemon just plain better when it comes down to rewarding their players Konami is trash in that sense. still love both card games tho
The cost of a meta deck is generally irrelevant considering what your end goal is. At any major event most players are on a considerably more even playing field than in a casual setting.
Thank you for bringing up that point about fun from different perspectives. I have found my fun in Yugioh by making different decks. I have 116 online decks and I still find it fun to look at the combinations I can make. I doubt any of these would hold up at a truly competitive event, but I'm glad that my fun is not necessarily looked down upon for it.
Dear Dzeeff admit it, you hate casual players cuz they popularized the use of Chaos Max, the God of meta. 10/10 best ritual (obvs because it's unsearchable)
Chaos Max is searchable. Melody of Awakening Dragon is a card (alos, Bingo Machine GO! GO!) and being a ritual, Manju and the Impcantations searchs it.
I do also get the sense that the video was essentially just criticising casual players for trying to enjoying the game in their way, whilst ironically pointing out that casual players aren't getting how competitive players enjoy the game. I do understand and agree that people who think that weak arguments justify card choices are dumb arses, no argument there, but as I say, I get the gist that the whole video was kind of justifying the outlook of competitive players. But it was a good video and has raised some good (and not so good) discussions in the comments. Nice videos btw Dzeeff (if you read this 'D)
How about “cherry picking evidence to hate on an entire community of gamers “
Should of called this video: "14 minutes and 37 seconds of beating down the casuals, a competitive players view"
May as well just change the title to "I hate my comment section." It's cool you seem to read way more comments than people might think, but almost every video lately seems to have a mini rant of sorts grilling people in your comment section.
@@whatthefrick9315 I can confirm through thorough analysis that hoes are indeed mad.
Oh boy another "Competitive players are right, casual players are wrong" video. Fucking love these.
One thing that is constantly tripping me up with your videos is that you seem to take the stance that being a competitive player inherently makes you a better player, which is something I simply have a hard time agreeing with.
I'm just getting into YGO, but I have competitive experience with Magic, HS, ShadowVerse, and a few more I'm sure I'm forgetting.
Maybe it's fundamentally different in the YGO community, but there is definitely a divide between having a meta deck and going to tournaments ( A.K.A. competitive player ) and actually being a good player.
Definitely not arguing that people arguing the Magical Cylinder is a top tier card are good players, but likewise, I don't think just going to tournaments makes you a good player either.
4:30 If you only want to win then you'll never learn and never hope to lose then you'll never learn, if you never learn you cannot see your weak spots. If you cannot see your weak spots then you'll never be able to know why your losing all the time. I learn that from Yu-Gi-Oh! When fighting meta sheep, as a noob at the time I learn how to put my best foot forward on my strat and crushed a competitive player all because I had a strong strategy up my sleeve, my own custom OP version of rescue rabbits and playing the frog deck.
this video was basically casual and competitive players argue alot have issues with each other....now let me tell you why casual players are just mad and wrong about everything....... the main reason casuals don't like "competitive" players is simple, a pretty good majority of them are smug assholes who only play the current metas op deck and insult and belittle people who sho any originality, and while they do have fun otking people with broken cards they also make the game totally unplayable for anyone who can't obtain the current op cards
I play Competitive casually. And play casual competitively.
I enjoy both a lot. I have a shit ton of fun pulling of a weird wombo combo with 4000 atk fluff tokens, as well as the fast intense competitive matches. Competitive for me is a big adrenaline rush, and the feeling of outsmarting your opponent is amazing. As well as the feeling of being outsmarted, and just sitting back and admiring what your opponent pulled off.
Though since zoo format, I have taken a break from competitive play, just to let the meta cool off. I typically take a break every time a new mechanic is introduced, I prefer to go back to casual and toy with it there, and just pay attention to what the meta does, without doing that myself.
Just remember the time doug made a crystal beast deck with fire and ice hand back in hat format, and casuals complained for years beacause he used these meta cards
I think a good comparison to make is my local Smash Bros community. In general with smash, there are always players who dislike specific characters or playstyles, and argue that the game isn't being played "Right." The players that say things like that are the ones that always go 0-2 at tournaments and drop out of the bracket first. Meanwhile, our best player is an advocate of "If it helps you win, do it." Although he doesn't really play this way himself, he argues that if you can't appreciate slow, stally gameplay or unfair combos, you don't love the game, you like it in very fringe cases where it fits what you want it to be. However, because he spends no time complaining about people playing "lame," he actually takes the time to learn how to play around and beat them, and the results are being top 5 in the state and number 1 in the city.
Im a casual player trying to go comp and my friends hate me for it saying i take it to serious and i only win because i have good decks. When in reality my only good deck is Trickstar and they cant even get past my ghostricks and traptrix but even when i try to help they dont wanna hear it
Not So Friendly Squidd you need knew friends haha
Jesus Gonzalez i di
Jesus Gonzalez do*
I made a typo too new* how ironic lol
Zed it is try having a friend ask for deck help you give him help and he says "but i need this card it works in my deck" 🙄
My friend, comes with me to my Locals, and should hopefully be coming with me to Regionals in April, and he plays Rainbow Neos Turbo.
He goes to have fun, but at the same time, very much cares about the meta (I call him a 'half-competitive'), and at my Locals, you can see both sides of competitive play, not really being many casuals there.
Many Players there laugh and pat him on the back, applauding him for playing such a deck, where as there are a few, who are so into Winning, that they belittle his deck, and call it trash, when he's spent a lot of time with myself as well, putting effort into that deck for the most consistent way to bring out Rainbow Neos, and it works, he rarely bricks, and usually gets it out Turn 2 or 3 on Average.
However on the other side of th3 spectrum, I run a club at my local school, and everyone that goes there (bar myself, my friend and 1 other player) is a casual player.
They often complain that his deck is too powerful, and that Rainbow Neos is too good. Which, upon having a Meta styled deck in casual play, is fair enough, when they're either running Mixed decks, or very weird varients of things like Magicians.
Also at my club, you have what I call 'half-Casuals' who play to win, but also don't care about the meta.
And when they beat him, they often lord it over him, calling his deck worthless, or useless and to be honest, it stinks, because you can get this attitude from both sides.
So to Conclude, Both sides have their faults, equally, and its just what we have to put up with in the YuGiOh community.
One thing you said in your video though was something along the lines of "Competitive Players play to Win." ~ Sort of implying that the Competitive Players will go out of their way to make the best decks like SPYRALS etc
I play competitively myself, having been to YCS London last year and planning to go again this year, and I know with my deck, I won't get anywhere close to top 32. I play to win, but not at the expense of my deck. I play to win with my favourite deck, which is Graydles (Although I have just finished building my Qlis and played with them at my Locals yesterday) not play to win by using the most Meta decks.
But that's just my Opinion, so, uh, Yeah.
This video sounds like casuals need to just admit or accept they are bad and we are cool, in a healthy relationship sometimes you need to suck it up and just let the other person be wrong or feel right. The fact that competitive players draw that line and divide the community into casual vs competitive is the real issue. If someone is genuinely better at something it should not effect you so much as to their opinion of a card. A competitive player should be the bigger person and not force people to admit their cards are "bad".
Your OP is misinformed and panders to feelings. Cards are optimal and sub-optimal. Nothing more.
you do not have love for your monsters you will lose you will have no shanny draw and be crush
I am a casual player myself I do not look down or look up to competitive players I think everybody has their own way of playing the game and good luck to each and every one that plays this game and keeps it alive if I had the money I could be a competitive player but not everybody can be a competitive player
To quote my boi Lair. ">bad players often have more confidence than competent players because they lack the skills to recognize their own flaws".
Sergio Garcia Salad git out :^(
som ppl are retarded and some time even thos retards can be good at times
but it sonds a little bit retarded
Fun in Yugioh: Not fighting the same deck over and over again, not relying on cheap bullshit.
After playing the game for over 10 years I can say I have a lot more fun with casual decks than meta decks. Because everyone in the meta is looking to win while casual you are just having fun. But that is okay. Some people just want to win, but don't let those people spoil your fun.
Except in Duel Links, where the casual vs competitive hate is real all because name colour came into it. I really hope they get rid of name colours in DL, the constant colour wars in the chat are annoying. If you're grey (aka Casual) you get told to shut up in the chat and constantly mocked for your 'idiocy' (aka The fact your primary goal isn't winning). If you're orange/red (aka Competitive) you're called a meta slave (because apparently strategy can't be fun) and usually get more targeted hatred because your name stands out more. It's one of the worst aspects of the game right now, because it takes away from any sense of community.
Note: I know the video isn't talking about DL, it just inspired me to talk about my observations of how casuals/competitives are treated in DL.
Wow, that sounds ridiculous. Wonder why they have that as a feature
dzeeff It's supposed to be a reward for achieving ranks in PvP. The default is grey, and you're supposed to be motivated to rank up by the reward of a coloured username. In a twisted way it works: people don't want to have a grey username because then they get mocked. That's a really shitty way to motivate players though, and it's not like everything is great for orange/red players. I don't see them removing the colours too soon though because the username colours are seriously the best reward there is for ranking up. You get very few gems for ranking up, and it'll likely stay that way so people buy gems. There are decent rewards for cumulative wins, but you can get those without ranking up; some people purposefully stay in lower ranks to get the cumulative win rewards easily. So they'll need to create another PvP rank-up reward to replace the coloured usernames before they get rid of the colours.
I’m a month late, but yes we KoGs get yelled at in the rooms for having no life, so I usually just avoid talking to anyone in anything except DL discords
Yeah, there are a whole bunch of casuals that like to defend their casual tech card since the love to play them and as a result are unable to see the actual value of those cards because they have a biased view towards those cards. I myself like Magic Cylinder as a card, I don't play it anymore for obvious reasons, but when I did it messed up my opponent quite a bit and either allowed me to win a game or allowed me to Cowboy for game. It may not have been the most effective card choice but on a casual level it's a fun card to mess with people since they never expect it. I'm also the guy who tried Supply Squad in Yang Zing variants for the draws, it didn't work out.
Dark Bribe actually did see play at the top decks in 2012?
That's 6 years ago though
I'm not saying it's good
"That's 6 years ago though"
and that's why dezzef is stupid for two reasons
1 time like you side 6 years ago shit comes and gos and if one day BECMD EVER becomes meta he will look vary vary stupid
2 he side dark bribe was shit but back then that shit was saw after
he's BIGEST MISTAC it not saying in the begging of the videos that this is for the meta of the time and that's why he's come under fire by "SCURBS" whooow idk why ppl here are using words form 2014 but i fell like ther trying to be to cool for skool and if he did say this is thur a meta players perspective that video of blue eyes would have gon over mush more better
"casual players are irrational idiots who don't know how to play the game. Also they don't understand how fun works"
are there even bad competitive players dzeef?
That videos reminds me of the 3 types of Magic The Gathering players : Tim, ... um and 2 more. XD
But yeah, those 3 types of players value different things and the people at Wizards of the Coasts makes differents card for those 3 archetypes of players,
some meant to be effective, other to be awesome to play but not necessarly practical and so on.
+Mewseeker Timmy, Johnny, and Spike! I'll maybe make a video about that sometime
dzeeff As a full on Timmy I'd love to see it!
+dzeeff that would be nice
Chaos Max aka The Timmy Deck
MIMMY MUST NOT FUCK APOUND AND BE A FAN OF THE ANIME caps was on and im not retyping
timmy must not fuck around and be a fan of the anime* idk who mmmm is
me: i hate yugioh all the players ftk me instantly
also me: *plays a casual deck in dueling nexus*
still also me: *has no idea how to make a combo*
ALSO ME STILL AGAIN: *makes a T.G deck*
I feel like this video has revealed a few new angles for me to view both sides of an argument from. Not for just Yugioh, but debates in general. Thank you.
I don't think this is the best place to learn about how to argue and analyse stuff.
This is quite literally dzeeff sucking competitive players off.
Drew Armstrong, The Glorious Lobster Emperor
Aww... Now that is a closed-minded attitude if I ever heard one. To each his own I guess.
However, it is not for you to decide what I did or did not learn. What are you even adding by saying that? Nothing, except trying to ruin a good sentiment with your drama-bait.
This sadly spans all game communities where there is any form of competitiveness or challenge, there's always a portion of the community who (understandably) can't afford the same time, money, or effort as the competitive players can and instead of just excepting that, they insist that the competitive players ruin the gay by this reason or another ("these tryhards make the game inaccessible" those communities exist but aren't the majority) and sometimes demand that the game be made simpler/easier to decrease the divide or to make it "more accessible".
You are just salty that you lost to a casual player :)
i just play casual because konami looks upon me with joy rather then rage
when our dark god turns to the meta players, it shakes its head and bans they're evil cards
when it looks upon the casuals, it gives no such punishment, and instead only asks that we spend far too much money for our decks
10:52 TeamSamuraiX1 would like to have a word with you 😂
My swords of revealing light killed my opponent in one of my games. Then he fell asleep because we had been playing for 80 straight hours (on the fifteenth occasion of course) waiting to get a win with swords of revealing light. Then everyone else on the bus got up and clapped.
While it’s unfair to turn the finger towards competitive players as a whole and blame problems experienced in the community on them, I really don’t think you accomplished as much as you’d like with this video. A lot of the heat you directed towards hardheaded casuals (who do exist, and don’t seem to want to think at least a little deeper into the game) without also acknowledging that there are a few too many competitive players who bash their views on other people’s heads, or who envelop their arguments in such a toxic attitude or smugness that it basically ruins anything they’d “contribute” to a discussion. In other words, this video definitely steers too far in one direction to accurately describe what’s going on. Having said that, I think people often forget a major part of the problem with any toxic members of a player base (or any group for that matter): the anonymity of the internet. Most trolls/online assholes wouldn’t have the guts to act the way they do in real life, and so they adopt that smugness or unnecessarily sharp attitude in the only place where they know they can get away with it. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of these elitists don’t even own physical copies of the cards they so religiously defend. In my personal experience, most casuals and competitive folks I’ve personally met are perfectly fine people.
As a casual I understand what cards are garbage and won't defend them. Honestly the only reason I consider myself a casual is because I like building weird decks like Predaplant Entities.
I was once a casual player who was super narrow minded until i actually started playing against good decks thats when i started realizing that i was a bad player and then i started getting a lot better at the game and i went from getting 10 places away from very last place at regionals to getting 56th place at regionals
Saying competitive players care about the game more in a video in which your talking about why they dislike each other is not a good move
Read my mind. Its stuff like that that gets non conpetitive diehards feathers ruffled. This presumed inate superiority and additude that casual players are just competitive players that cant get on their level.
the thing that piss me off most is when causal players ask for help and you say the truth that his deck is not good and need some improvement they get mad. Like, they ask for help, you help and they get pissed just because you said that what they are playing doesn't work on the competitive level.
+Eduardo Baumgratz When their deck is literally just 40 random cards and they ask you what cards to add to boost their "strategy"
dzeeff i actually saw this happening once. I saw a kid in a regional playing a deck made from 5 boosters he bought.
@OP PREACH!!!!
All of these triggered crybabies cant handle solid criticism for shit.
If someone were to tell me PFs were shit bar 4 cards, Id agree. Tells someone their old nostalgia 2005 deck is shit for 2018 standard, and they lose their minds.
DeltaTheAwsome PSYFrame a thing I just say to every casual playe is "it's OK to like a bad deck" I really like agents and know that they do nothing nowadays, I really try to make them playable in the casual scenario but I know that the deck is bad, and that's OK.
have you ever thought that you probably don't know how to talk to someone
I lived on the border of casual competitive, I play off meta as a source of pride in my TCGs. During Yu-Gi-Oh, I've managed to top 8 regionals with a 'Fear of D.D.' and Dark Scorpions deck. But as I built it up from casual with extensive testing. For Fear of D.D. it took anti meta elements to oppress most main strategies my opponents were running, such as Royal Oppression despite running Reborn/Return and such. Knowing full well my opponent would spend resources getting rid of these instead of the slow build win condition. It wouldn't work these days or around the time I stopped playing(xyz being new) but it was a hell of a rush building it up from scraps. Inspired to build it from a DS game against one of my favorite monsters. My Scorpions fell out of competitive chances with Blackwings being meta. It built around making them masters of combat and taking advantage of their effects, but it was too difficult when one would only have Battle damage to zero effects on board.
The difference will always be there, but what matters more to me as a fellow player is to respect the other's goal. Whether its practically netdecked, could be to better understand the deck before a major tournament. Could be a deck that has no business winning, but could be a blast to play and watch your opponent's confusion in the meantime. We all also have pet peeves, mine is stall decks in any TCG.
Keep making these videos. It’s miserable playing lopsided games where your opponent constantly berates you for know rules, rulings, and card advantage. It’s miserable explaining your deck decisions only for them to be dismissed as too Meta or too “easy” or (and here we eye roll) missing the “spirit” of the game or fun. Somehow the way competitive players enjoy the game is wrong because I’m not so sure why.
A particular frustration is not that casuals play bad cards or play (sometimes but not always) poorly, but that matches end with bitter comments about careful, efficient choices. When your opponent is annoyed that you know what their deck can do but they never bothered to even casually read your cards, somehow that’s your fault. You become miserable for losing to situations that were certainly in your control (knowledge of the game, card choices) and we become miserable because we become bad people for playing well.
You meta sheep
Kappa
I find that many casual players have that "scrub" mentality and think that the way you play isn't "fun" for them, and wonder why are they losing. Competitive players have fun too, we just have fun winning.
Scrub: A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
From: www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub
I'm ok with newbies because they are people just starting out, I'm not ok with scrubs who play with self-imposed rules, complaining that people aren't as "skilled" as them because they aren't using handicapped decks and then conclude that others aren't having fun.
I adore that scrub page.
I also agree that playing newbies is cool. You need newbies otherwise the game dies. Skilled players should help weaker players. Yeah, sometimes we do it wrong and say a card or deck is trash, but I suspect often we just call bad cards bad and it's taken as an insult. Like magic cylinder being trash. Or Harpie's being a good rogue pick. You might like the deck and it can do cool things but it ain't played for a reason and choosing to ignore those reasons is a you problem.
Weird on honor codes, "pure" ideas about fun, and an unwillingness to learn the game you're playing ruin it for everyone. No one has EVER said not knowing a game makes it more fun. That is ridiculous.
Allow me to explain where the ire comes from within my more casual brethren. We have fun playing the game. We don't care if we win. But if we face a deck that vastly out paces ours because you have more money and time to improve your deck and skills with, what often happens is that we can't play the game when we face you. Because every moment is just watching our opponent play solitaire as they destroy is. If I wanted to watch someone else play I'd come to youtube. But in the end I can't dislike you because of how you express passion for your game, but I certainly don't have to like going against you. Again I don't need to win, I just want to play.
Asthmere Sivolisk Yea it’s pretty miserable looking at other people play solitaire. No one likes it.
But if you’re playing the yugioh were casuals summon once and pass, or if they think this is still game where backrow is viable then something is off with the understanding of the game. It’s changed. It’s evolved. Yes decks have fallen to the wayside, but these old decks- like crystal beasts - are still being played the same two ways (abundance and rainbow dragon turbo), despite there being cards to The cars pool for different strategies.
We have an absurd number of ways to interact with our opponent on their turn, and we know this is true based off the ridiculous hand trap.decks this format. Choosing not to innovate is on the player, even with the cheap stuff like veiler. And accepting that not all decks are equal is also on the player.
I may really like aromages but I also know I need to Tech the deck out with the plant engine and predaplants and the like because it’s core strategy is piss poor, and even then the final boards are weird and inconsistent. You may really like raidraptors but maybe in link era you decided to shift your deck to Ultimate Fake Blackwing xyz turbo and turn it into a protect the tower deck. But if all else fails just buy a cheap combo deck for yourself. Why stay miserable in a game you love? No one like sitting around doing nothing so why play the same cards that force you to sit?
I see and feel for the points here, but like a few other comments, Competitives cant see how a casual appreciates a yugioh match. We want it to last a few turns not to be 2 turn locked out and beaten. I built a random ass warrior modgpodg deck only kinda built on Zub General, and S Swordsman. My coworker used to do locals and has this casual-buster deck of dark magicians(I mean he uses it as a complete douche just to curb stomp a casuals deck, mine included). I managed to xyz Zub General and equip him to like 5500 and make his ass sweat for a turn. He said his local tournaments almost never did that because of all the field wipe and turbo game ending strats. For me as a casual, I build for 2 different reasons; gimmick (Toons, Timelords) or for theme strat (Warrior Spam, Spell Counter + S Magician). If I end a duel on turn 3 I feel like I didnt get much out of it. Competitive players just want to race to the top tables at a tournament. A drawn put game might entertain them, but they'd go without every time to just win. Winning is nice, but it's not as fun if you (and this is exaggerated) draw your hand to go first and get a complete exodia. You win with minimal effort. How is that fun? You didnt even use 80% of the deck you meticulously built for this. I take a competitive players opinion on cards as a strong suggestion when building a deck, but I rarely go "Oh this card is TERRIBLE for tcg tournament!" and leave it out. Too many times have I CASUALLY played a competitive and used Swords of Revealing Light and hear them gripe "Ugh, Swords?! Are you serious?!" like forcing them to play around it is too much for them to be bothered with. If it's banned, usually I dont play it unless it's for the joke value, chicken game for example. Its effect is friggin stupid overall (not that I have ANY idea how it got banned) but I thought it was funny enough to side deck for the warrior mess I call a deck.
Point is, competitives dont appreciate a drawn put game as much as a casual would. As for a certain few types of casuals I can think of... I know the type, and they're just spiteful. Nothing to be done of it.
The only problem I have with competitive is that they make prices of cards waaay too extreme. A good example was Linkuriboh which would've been a really nice and fun addition to a kuriboh deck, but instead became a meta card for degenerate reasons, causing the price to skyrocket as soon as it came out, leading it to be impossible to afford in the Kuriboh deck.
Zave Smith That's not the competitive players fault.
chai zaeng
Technically no, but the card's price spikes because of hype or relevance in the meta which is decided by players' actions during tournaments. So it's indirect cause the only people who would know to spike the price would have some knowledge about the meta
Yet another issue with casual players, they don't stay informed and take losses because of it. There were precautions you could take to get Linkuriboh for $21 and not have to worry about a price spike. Even beyond Linkuriboh, it's not hard to look at the OCG meta and figure out what cards have potential to go up in value.
GamerSastn Fair point, but you can't blame them for wanting to play good cards. For example Linkuriboh, it's a very good card, it's easy to summon and very versatile. You can't blame people for wanting to play good cards. In the end, the competitive players are just spending their money to get more good cards to play with. I don't see how that's bad. Sure the prices skyrocket but then again that's just how basic economy works. If the demand is high, then prices will go up.
Dominique Johnson
Key word is potential, cause they're two different formats. But it should be clear if he's saying the price spiked, this means he knew it was coming and was readying to purchase until he noticed a price change unless you want your cards in another language. Like, sometimes you can go to the card section of stores and the new packs can be null: no rng.
it felt more like why casual are bad compared to competitive rather than why they argue.
This also apllies to favorite decks. Casual players tend to cling on their favorite archtype for ever woth sheer hope of it being good again insteas of adapting. Like there are so many other decks to build; why insist on playing the same deck over and over? Like yeah I adore Atlantean Mermail and I always try to find a way to make them work in any format but I have accepted the fact that the deck is pretty much powercrept to death and doesn't stand a chance.
Because I like Hero.
I don't WANT to play anything else. Lol
Personally as a casual all I have to say is that I watch meta videos to see what everyone else is playing because I just love learning about Yu-Gi-Oh and just like these videos.
Expect a lot of casual hate in the comments below. You better get ur counters ready
Expect a lot of uninformed scrubs hating on competitive players. Get those counters ready
@God The joke, your head
"Get those counters ready" i thot meta ppl did not play trap cards ? because there S L O W
i actually have one thing that i disagree on. whenever i play online, if i dont play meta, then meta players make a point to talk down to me. and if i get a game they say it was a fluke and then rub it in my face when they win the next game like "oh i told you so" so it goes both ways
I always being called a dirty netdecker by casuals.
Typical shaming language from scrubs, Dont listen to em.
It was hard to hear them from the top tables.
Good shit OP. Good shit. :) Ima happiboi
Kunx990 well are you?
I am a competitive player but I don't want to run the best deck, I play world chalice for example and the only reason I complain about decks on the top is because they are there as an issue rather than being there because they are necessarily creative or good, Ill take it up the ass form lightsworns, trickstars, or even odd eyes and I wont bat an eye because they arent running the tier 0 deck, or burn, burn players have no place in this game.
But the reason I'm not mad at tier one decks is because they seem like worthy adversaries, people i have a chance to beat, I have an underdog complex and I will always have fun playing what isnt meta in a competitive fashion.
The problem with casuals in ANY game is that they constantly try to refute the knowledge of players that have invested much more time into the game than they have. Every competitive game has the same problems, competitive players consistently beating casuals and then casuals crying about unfairness or "competitive players don't like fun" or some BS. Even in this comments section I see casual crybabies whining about how you were "too hard" on casual players and didn't say enough about bad things competitive players do. The thing is, competitive players in general are usually pretty chill people who just care and know about the game more than you do. When competitive players lose, they learn from it. When casual players lose, they rant about how "the game sucked when synchros were introduced I miss OG yugioh". I'm a very casual yugioh player who only messes around with starter decks and plays duel link/legacy of the duelist in my free time, but I've still been in the community since like 2012 and I can completely vouch for everything dzeeff said in this video. In general casuals are crybabies who refuse to get better in the name of "fun". The only toxic competitive players are the ones in chatrooms that never actually go to locals and jerk off to their dueling book wins.
To be fair, if you ever put a game up on RUclips or w/e you'll get tons of people ragging on you for misplays and (more problematically for this discussion) odd or "poor" card choices. And even if you don't put them up yourself, sometimes someone else is recording the game and if you discover somewhere it was tossed up, you can have the lovely experience of having a good quarter of your choices thrashed or so.
And that's not necessarily "competitive" players doing that, but I think you might see why casual players might think it's all the highly competitive sorts getting down on them (as opposed to the usual array of RUclips jerks...).