Yeah, basically the moral is that every writer you ever talk to will tell you it's about finding a process. Every writer in this video gave reasons for their method, but always said that the other method is viable. It really is about honing a craft, and finding what works for you. I'm writing my first script at 18 and find that I'm using a hybrid strategy. I've done a denser outline up to the midpoint, and left most of the second half open. Now I have time to explore the characters, get the plot moving, and then I can see where I am halfway, and continue driving in the right direction. Also thank you to Film Courage, your videos have been inspiring and informative while I have been urging myself to start my first script.
This is one of my favorite compilation videos from FC. I am on an ego-restructure day today and FC never lets me down. I consider these interviews like motivational tapes. Thanks FC! You’re doing a great service subjectively speaking! ✌🏾 ❤️
I think once you have a collection of works... you can see that you may have a process... but then you may architect a certain idea and the garden others. Some passion decides the process.
I love Danny Strong's advice. It allows for structure and creativity - the gardener is the architect first, building the structure then tending and nurturing each of the plants within it, fertilizing, making sure it has everything it needs to grow, pruning it when needed, paying attention to making it beautiful and healthy.
I love outlining. My outlines and character breakdowns take only a couple pages for me. Doing it this way allows me to float throughout the script and watch it come to life.
As a beginning screenplay writer, I've watched most of these videos before but after struggling through trying to learn the whole process of writing and reading about outlines (Adam Skelter helped a great deal with his chart) being a major part of that process.. I'm starting to finally get it as of tonight.. Outlines are simply a way to organize your story for each plot point written in a paragraph or bullet point for each point while following a structure. It allows you to think about each Sequence in terms of how it fits your overall story plotting (the ups and downs, decisions and number of Acts that define your medium your writing for) so that your story is complete and makes sense logically. From there you take it to the page and write scenes and dialogue for your characters and write the actual script. Its a tool more than anything but helps people who are not writers understand where the story is going. I now see each side and understand what the writers are talking about.. Perhaps you can be both an architect and a gardener? All that stands in your way is re-writing.
I'm also currently learning to write scripts, for my own project, and it's tough going teaching yourself everything. Resources like these video, script archives, how-to-guides, everything. I have no hopes of ever getting a job in the "industry" but I would like to see my story be the best it can be. I would love to hear how you are doing with your writing. Do you do videos like that on your channel?
Karr and Garret, I'm with you both except I have a few written - except for the middles. I hate the idea of doing an outline mostly because, if I can't do it with every lot point filled in, I may never start the actual screenplay - but then I am left with 5 SPs with no middle. Perhaps now that I know how it starts (kind of) and how it ends (kind of), I'll sit and do an outline to make sure I'm hitting the plot points and help me discover how I get from beginning to the end with plenty of ups and downs. These videos are great. I usually listen at night and end up falling asleep then the next night, start again. Eventually I hear the whole thing but it's drilled into my head by that time. I have no ideal of landing a movie and o don't listen to the "selling your script" videos - although writing the perfect lifetime movie seem in my wheelhouse. I am starting a website describing what I think I doing which I hope to start soon: ScreenplayPlayng.com but it's not up yet. Soon, once I know I can commit to keeping it up. (I've started a few blogs before and they are like my screenplay - writing interuptis. Meanwhile, I love these vids too.
@@GarretMarks Thanks for asking! my RUclips channel is not writing focused however I am trying to incorporate more story and script elements into my content. Im naturally a visual person (im into photography and cinematic gear) as well as someone who enjoys the creation part of writing. Most of what im learning is for side writing projects for myself however id love to be able to write something at some point and submit to a contest.
I am glad to hear from both of you guys. I would really like to talk to both of you guys. What do you guys think of livestreams for people interesting in story creation? Kind of like this channel, except live (because nobody will be watching anyway) and instead of stars and experienced professionals it's just average people like us talking about story, available resources used, and their own projects.
The. Outline is the blueprint for your story. Basically, it is the idea you are laying out, on pen and paper. Once it's on paper, the hard work is done.
This is such a wonderful channel. Thank you for helping me start my screenwriting journey, just about to premiere my first film at Venice Film Festival :)
Thanks for compiling all this info into one video. After hearing Gary describe his 12 Sequence method at 11:34, I tried it myself and it has been immensely helpful. I'm working on the 2nd draft of a script, and had felt unsure about what revisions were needed. Now it's clear that my 5th sequence needs my protagonist to be more active, my last sequence needs to be completely rewritten, and my 1st act has the right ingredients to set everything up.
Also, for me my 1st draft is written with a sparse outline, to facilitate exploration between each plot point, like swimming freestyle from buoy to buoy. Controlled spontaneity. My second draft is written with a more robust outline, to hone in on the journey and trim the fat. It's like having finished a road trip and now you have to tell a stranger about your adventure, except you have to cut out the boring parts and embellish the good ones. Your outline is your road map to help you remember what happened when.
@@ckrug32 My outlines are a living document, a dynamic document from start to finish. How much gets written depends on what stage I'm in. However, I don't start drafting until that outline has some meat on the bones. Otherwise, whole scenes, dialogue and characters need to be cut out.
That works sometimes, but not always. You need to know your catalyst first. That leads you to the end. The catalyst is part of that initial idea. What makes your hero do or not want to do something that leads to a climax?
Helpful beyond words for I am in the process of writing my first screenplay and everything I have read about it -- which amounts to a massive volume of material -- over a period of 3 YEARS -- still leaves me perplexed, whereas now I have clarity and know what to do first to get the actual writing under way without the mental guessing game ... thanks to these insights from actual screenwriters, some of whom whose work I have seen on screen! -- not some book or blog writer whose expertise is unknown, after all some people who write don't really have the actual experience they're writing about or they do, but they suck at it.
My favorite thing is what Aaron Sorkin says about how there's an Oscar winning script right there in your English dictionary. All there, right in your hands.
So helpful, these interviews and the brilliance and faith that each interview restores. The big blockbusters are so formulaic and of little interest to me. The transformation of the inner life; our protagonist because of experiences shared between them and us, the viewer is what interest me. Thank you. Thank you.
I think outlining is falsely equated with a sheet of bullet points and some dude going “boom, boom, boom,” spitting out short sentences for each scene. In my experience, there is a world of mental visualisation and “writing” occurring in my head as I think through the major outline turns. I’ve written and re-written elements of a story several times over in my head to work out ideas but I have yet to start a “first draft” of my current project. The difference between a pantser/gardener and plotter/architect might be akin to the difference between a person that talks (here writes) to figure stuff out on the fly vs the person that has to go away and analyse/think before presenting his/her idea to the world.
My professor used to say we're the CSI of emotions. We have that feeling we want to convey in the writing and then we have to solve for how to do it. And you're right, even when you're not writing you're always thinking about the case. You make bullet points, you cross off suspects until you finally have a plausible story of "the crime".
Yea. I'm definitely a gardener. I tried outlining a couple times, and I found it to be a painfully boring process. Jumping right into the script, and letting everything unfold organically and spontaneously as Markus Redmund talked about in this video, is very freeing and enjoyable. I do get frustrated, of course, but it's fun to work through.
Funniest thing I ever heard about "plotters" vs. "pantsers" was from the Writing Excuses podcast. "What's one thing that a plotter can learn from a pantser?" "Joy." I'm a plotter - architect - myself, but that's funny.
I find myself being able to be both a gardener and an Architect. I love structure, for example, I love Baroque music, especially the most intricate forms, ie, Canons and Fugues. The craftsmanship of being able to write a fugue is similar to that idea of the seed, but only interms of theme (motiff), but after that its all craftsmanship of the highest order. For the composer, their understanding of theory and harmony, namely, counterpoint, inform or set the guidelines for the piece and their choices for developing that motiff. Most are familiar with the music that starts Fantasia, that is Bach's Tocatta and Fugue in D. Anyway, without a full understanding of theory and harmony, and counterpoint, one cant "intuitively" write a Fugue, unless your a genius and have internalized the fugue form and your brain outputs that without effort. I think with screenwriting, which is just another form. a quite strict form, of storytelling, one has to have internalized what makes a great story. But even that is not enough. But the GOOD (or can we say working) gardeners, have to understand this, either intuitively or have learned it. They have got the important concepts of story telling and character arc already internalized and bring them out at will. For me, I could just let it flow, but because of my lack of understanding of story and character arc, I've found myself writing the infamous PASSIVE protagonist. Rookie mistake. Moreover, I find that my first ideas aren't always working for me. I can imagine my characters acting in the world, and its fun to let my mind play, but to what end? This is where having an outline, for me, is becoming more appealing. I know it will save me time in the long run. I don't want to rewrite 7 or 8 times just because I haven't worked out the story problems. I enjoy the process of working those problems out before writing myself into them. For me, its lazy to not outline and think through the story and all the important elements that need to be there. Maybe after having written dozens, and read 100s of screenplays, I'll have enough experience to never outline, but I know for me, eventually, it will become second nature. Where I think folks get into trouble though is when you dont allow yourself the freedom to break a rule here and there, but at least you want to know you are breaking it, and breaking it because the story doesn't work without breaking that little rule. However, the studio could decide to change everything to fix the rule you broke, so I guess what is important is that the story is working on all the right levels, then following the rules (from the outside looking in) dont matter as much, if its working, its working.
32:00 This explains why so many movies are bad today. It takes time and dedication and several rewrites and edits to craft your script to perfection but the bizz only cares about deadlines. A two draft screenplay is a JOKE and not a funny one.
They're not reading enough that's the problem.If people did both who jniws what could be again.It's hard to be original but reading a good book that's what really matters.
Sometimes directors and new writers brought onboard ruin an already great screenplay. Directors come onboard with their on bright ideas and will tear apart a screenplay. That's why the original writer or writers aren't most times allowed on set. Another reason I think most movies are bad is because a paid writers often times won't be passionate about the the script they're being paid to write. They spend 3 weeks to 3 months creating a Frankenstein monster of a script and turn it in. Imagine Tarrintino writing a script and giving it to a director, and the director rewrites it his or herself, or brings another writer onboard and shoots it. Lol I'd be willing to bet it would be a mess of a movie.
Personally, I think their is too much material out there. Writing is something that should come natural, meaning their are a chosen few who are gifted enough to do it. There are exceptions that some can learn the craft. I meet people all the time who have an idea for a movie and never write it or can sometimes crank out one good script. The true gifted writers can crank out 1 to 3 good to great scripts a year. I like to sit on an idea for weeks or months and piece it together in my head. I do jot about 3 to 6 pages of notes before I start writing.
My usual process, 1 paragraph idea > 1 page outline > 20-30 page treatment > 50-60 page treatment with some dialogue > 120-130 page first draft once formatted and adding remaining dialogue > completed script goes in the bin and I have some beers
I like that process. It resembles my process a lot. I start with an idea that is crafted into a logline (which could change as the story develops with the final version matching the actual script). Your 50-60 treatment is my three-act beat sheet with sluglines, that could include some dialogue, but I usually let the dialogue develop as the script is being crafted. Have pre-canned dialogue lines can sound corny, contrived or over-handed. It has to live and breathe within the scene, the moment.
I'm bit of a hybrid. I first spill out the general idea of the story, vomiting on the page. Then outline each scene and add structure to the story not the other way around.
i once was hired to co-write an action thriller. there was a HUGE problem: I'm a gardener and my co-writer was an architect. we couldn't stand each other. LOL i was like, write the story already! he was like, we have to list out the story beats, outline, etc. and exactly like Tamika, i was like "what is this outline stuff???" LOL
When I write an outline it feels very organic. I’m just doing a paragraph or so per story beat, then move onto the next one. Sometimes there’s dialogue sometimes not. It’s just whatever’s relevant to the story beat. But it’s still putting one foot in front of the other in terms of discovering the story. I don’t know where it’s going to go specifically, I’m just feeling it out in an organic way. And I don’t get caught up in writing scene description or all the dialogue, which tends to happen (to me at least) when I try to write the script from page 1 in Final Draft. So I guess you could say it’s like a Gardner developing blueprints.
I think if a script is plot driven, an outline is time saving, suit-pleasing, and effective. But if a script is equally or more theme and story (emotional value) driven then any outline beyond 3-5 pivotal beats might be a waste of time.
Loved this, but wanted to ask about the "raw in media" mention at 3:41. Is there a link to it? Would love to watch or read what he is speaking on more.
Well, outlines are really subjective as everyone has their own approach to them. Gary Goldstein explained his system in this video, he went in great depth with regards to his structural process. He breaks his outline (which he sections into 4 equal parts) up into 12 sequences (3 sequences in act 1, 6 in act 2 and 3 in act 3), and each sequence is just a scene list of about 6 scenes. What's hard about that?
Also loved hearing that It is an experiment. I say that about my actual garden and am suddenly excited to look at my book in this way. I think I was close to this discovery yesterday, then this video popped up and hit everything on the nail. Thank you so much!!
I feel like calling the outline a blueprint isn't quite accurate because I view the script itself as the blueprint for the film. Judging from what I observed, there are some misconceptions from both sides which make them think they are so different. Some of the gardeners were describing their process which included elements that sound like what architects describe as outlines and vice versa. I think what the gardeners are against is the studio version or structure of outlining but they have their own version of outlining, just like how the architects leave room for spontaneity within the actual scriptwriting/storytelling.
I would love to know the personality type MBTIs of the Architect vs the Gardener. I am an INTP and have to be careful "outlining or plotting out too much because once I "solve a problem" I lose interest in whatever it is including my writing and it ends up never written. I find I am better off "Instinct writing" . I will write out characters but everything else is in the moment, scene by scene in no real order till I reread what all I have written in a week and arrange them in order then the following week figure out where those chunks of writing goes in the slowly growing work.
That's great. You know your limitations and respond to that with a process that works for you. That's the whole idea. This isn't a one-size-fits-all thing, as seen in this video.
If i had to guess i would think it has a lot to do with p vs j. J's (intj here) would probably be more inclined to outlining but it is an interesting question. I tried writing without outlining and my script just died so now I do a ton of prep work before I try to actually type out the script.
i feel like an idiot ive started writing a screenplay for a few weeks now and i didn’t write an outline?? basically i went straight into it as a full script with direction and dialogue :(
Organic, intuit and the evolution of a characters soul is not going to happen based upon a formula, however, to know that as a writer, my own intuit is on mark, or close or actually has an innate rhythm is powerful.
If the gardener approach plants a seed and lets it grow (assuming a successful screenwriter using this approach), why does the plant consistently end up with 90-120 pages and plot/transition points in the conventional places? It's not a random development - it's probably that the author just can't articulate their process.
It's better to take an hour or two to outline your story, than to get to page 65 and wonder "what happens next?" If you know where you're going, then it's harder to get lost. But you still need to check your outline every once in a while, when you're writing the first draft, to make sure you're on track. Some of the writing is organic and it can change, due to character decisions that you hadn't thought about before, but the main story should still adhere to your original idea, unless you come up with something better.
Create that skeleton and add enough bone on the meat to get that general storyline written down. That should leave enough creative room to let your muse run free. Then, when complete, see what you have. Are there enough pages? Does it flow nicely? Is the protagonist active or passive? Is there an arc for the main characters? What are the flaws? Does it make sense or is it forced? etc., etc., etc.
I know that guy didn’t read Song of Ice and fire series because no one thought that about the books. GRRM should write an outline if it get us Winds of Winter!😅
There are some things you can surmise based on the available script drafts and the behind-the-scenes glimpse we get of the process. To me what it seems like is he starts off with a brainstorm. He collects various ideas and thematic material and then makes notes of them. Those notes will spark other ideas. On the earlier movies he wrote treatments which is kind of a mid-level step between an outline and a screenplay. Lucas had one advantage in that he had a bunch of artists on the payroll. What they gave back to him would often spur other ideas. For example, in the earliest two drafts of Star Wars, Darth Vader didn't wear a mask. Ralph McQuarrie thought he needed a breathing apparatus because in the second draft Vader has to cross the vacuum of space to board the Rebel ship. And so the mask was born. Lucas then got the idea that it would be neat to have Vader always be in the mask. McQuarrie observed that Lucas then saw him as more of a tragic figure. And in the third draft, Vader gets a backstory where he hadn't had one before. He was just a bad guy doing bad guy things and then he dies in the end. Now he's a fallen Jedi with some connection to Luke’s past and he lives at the end.
Get used to writing outlines and treatments. Most writing jobs are writer-for-hire and your contract will specify a number of treatment and outline drafts before you get the go ahead to deliver the script.
You know I always make an outline before starting to write the script. Then when writing the script, I'd still figuring out the story not necessarily locked by the outline.
Anyone here really knows how a gardeners mind work, I mean an experienced one? Onviously you will have to make a plan. A Garden is far from just letting it grow, when you do this it‘s called nature!
This will be very controversial, but most creatives or anyone as of fact, do not realize the potential they have to create their own path. You can create your own project. I see way too many talented people, creating amazing work, but yet they don't know how to take the next step to produce their own work. If you are relying upon your script only, for the majority it is not going to work. You need to tell the world about you.
It's a collaborative work. Doing it yourself with drive you insane and leave you a bag of regret. But, be the leader of the three-ring-circus. Producer means something other than Writer. You have to market yourself. Having an agent or manager who believes in your art is also a great thing to have. Two heads are better than one. Three heads are a strong, unbreakable thing.
A failed writer moves back home to live with his parents, only to discover their old room falling apart and mysterious glowing plants growing up from beneath the floor boards. He falls in love with both the Architect and the Gardener, but is soon forced to choose which one he will spend the rest of eternity with..
I dont agree with the whole excessive outlining thing though, if I am honest. I mean, the extreme of neither is good but really my feeling is that when you outline a whole fucking sotry inn20-30 pages you can not understand you characters too well, because you end uo writing them based on rules. You dont give them space to breath. But on top of that, i find for myself that when i outline everything straight away, I lose some creative touch-the part of my brain that goes bizzirk when I can't find an idea doesnt exist-i place limits to myself, and thats very frustrating. So i think the best way to do it is firstly, always watch films and be an observer of story so that you jever lose those instincts. I think thats key. Secondly, in the actual writing, i outline my character within that world, i develop that world in which the story should take place, and then once I know that I often know my ending-or atleast have a vague idea of it-because of certain story elements and genre pieces that are already beginning to show. So once I know all this, I will usually write my first act super fast, coz its all outlined, but the second act has not been written, yet the next scenes are clear in my head. I know how my character would behave next, what should happen next when its a family comedy-drama, or horror or whatever. And thats it man. Dont make writing into this intensely maticulous process because I genuinely believe that creativity is often a problem solving response to bordom. Let yourself get bored in that middle part so your mind wonders of and comes up with some crazy shit.
I must be on another planet. I either know what I am going to write or I do not. In the former case, an outline is unnecessary. In the latter case, an outline is impossible.
Not related to this greate video. But have noticed something about female writers, it seems like whenever they tell advice or a way to write is always emits from a very personal experience which touched them deep enough to dilute thier fictional creativity with reality. While Male writers tend to create something out of nothing. In fact they tend to avoid their personal reality.
Never go full free-write or else you'll get a RWBY. Never just outline without writing a story or else you get Hollywood. I often free-write while listening to a song, that song acting as kind of a mental outline. and then I'll outline what I felt in that song. *Counterattack from Xenoblade* is a recent song I've gotten inspiration from.
As soon as I start writing an outline and doing all that stuff I LITERALLY lose the want to write that shit. Its not that I think Im above an outline its just that that's not how I operate but I guess I might as well learn but no one ever has a clear cut example they all have a different way of outlining and I just...idk that shit ain't for me. I'll still try but...it doesn't save me time at all. Just makes me annoyed and bored.
How long do you let your story concept ruminate and breathe? Just opening up a blank page with no idea seems to be very risky and could lead to a dead end story or driving off a cliff. However, that's me.
Too long a process and a gamble based on the sales of your book. How do you know your book will be well accepted and liked as a story that is dying to be made into a movie? It's faster and easier to write a screenplay.
@@99percentproof adaptation means taking it from one form to the next. Usually, an existing IP. I got confused with your use of the word. What you're saying is write the story out in prose form, like you would find in a book. Then use that as an outline for the screenplay. I get it, just not the use of the word, adaptation. It doesn't mean what I think you think it means.
![Pro Writer's Advice: Plot Points, Loglines, Beat Sheets And Outlines - Steve Harper [FULL INTERVIEW]](/img/1.gif)
Yeah, basically the moral is that every writer you ever talk to will tell you it's about finding a process. Every writer in this video gave reasons for their method, but always said that the other method is viable. It really is about honing a craft, and finding what works for you. I'm writing my first script at 18 and find that I'm using a hybrid strategy. I've done a denser outline up to the midpoint, and left most of the second half open. Now I have time to explore the characters, get the plot moving, and then I can see where I am halfway, and continue driving in the right direction. Also thank you to Film Courage, your videos have been inspiring and informative while I have been urging myself to start my first script.
This is one of my favorite compilation videos from FC. I am on an ego-restructure day today and FC never lets me down. I consider these interviews like motivational tapes. Thanks FC! You’re doing a great service subjectively speaking! ✌🏾 ❤️
My view: We're all both Architects and Gardeners... the point is to know when to be which so that it better suits you as an individual!
Yes! Love it! Perfectly said💯
I think once you have a collection of works... you can see that you may have a process... but then you may architect a certain idea and the garden others. Some passion decides the process.
This just shows that writing screenplays isn't an exact science in the sense that there's no one truth. Everybody's process is different.
Word
A greenhouse takes both an architect and a gardener.
good answer - spot on dude
And plenty of fertiliser
But a greenhouse is not necessarily the most desirable building nor garden. (not all stories are greenhouses).
Ehhh I’m no architect and I built a pretty good greenhouse
@@theplasticdesert2408 cocaine?
Wow. I'm learning more from these interviews, than film school.
Thanks, glad to see our work can supplement what you are learning at school.
You should see a doctor about that lean*, you might just be getting scoliosis lol.
I love Danny Strong's advice. It allows for structure and creativity - the gardener is the architect first, building the structure then tending and nurturing each of the plants within it, fertilizing, making sure it has everything it needs to grow, pruning it when needed, paying attention to making it beautiful and healthy.
Fascinating seeing/hearing the difference between the two
I love outlining. My outlines and character breakdowns take only a couple pages for me. Doing it this way allows me to float throughout the script and watch it come to life.
My outlines usually run around 10 pages or so. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Depends on the story background, characters and premise.
Do you usually give the characters names before or afterwards?
@@anthonymoreni3005 in my latest script I did both. I even allowed the main characters to suggest names and I went with their selections.
I was a gardener who learned architecture. I feel like an trained architect could make a great gardener.
That's a great statement.
As a beginning screenplay writer, I've watched most of these videos before but after struggling through trying to learn the whole process of writing and reading about outlines (Adam Skelter helped a great deal with his chart) being a major part of that process.. I'm starting to finally get it as of tonight.. Outlines are simply a way to organize your story for each plot point written in a paragraph or bullet point for each point while following a structure. It allows you to think about each Sequence in terms of how it fits your overall story plotting (the ups and downs, decisions and number of Acts that define your medium your writing for) so that your story is complete and makes sense logically. From there you take it to the page and write scenes and dialogue for your characters and write the actual script. Its a tool more than anything but helps people who are not writers understand where the story is going. I now see each side and understand what the writers are talking about.. Perhaps you can be both an architect and a gardener? All that stands in your way is re-writing.
I'm also currently learning to write scripts, for my own project, and it's tough going teaching yourself everything. Resources like these video, script archives, how-to-guides, everything. I have no hopes of ever getting a job in the "industry" but I would like to see my story be the best it can be. I would love to hear how you are doing with your writing. Do you do videos like that on your channel?
Karr and Garret, I'm with you both except I have a few written - except for the middles. I hate the idea of doing an outline mostly because, if I can't do it with every lot point filled in, I may never start the actual screenplay - but then I am left with 5 SPs with no middle. Perhaps now that I know how it starts (kind of) and how it ends (kind of), I'll sit and do an outline to make sure I'm hitting the plot points and help me discover how I get from beginning to the end with plenty of ups and downs. These videos are great. I usually listen at night and end up falling asleep then the next night, start again. Eventually I hear the whole thing but it's drilled into my head by that time. I have no ideal of landing a movie and o don't listen to the "selling your script" videos - although writing the perfect lifetime movie seem in my wheelhouse. I am starting a website describing what I think I doing which I hope to start soon: ScreenplayPlayng.com but it's not up yet. Soon, once I know I can commit to keeping it up. (I've started a few blogs before and they are like my screenplay - writing interuptis. Meanwhile, I love these vids too.
@@GarretMarks Thanks for asking! my RUclips channel is not writing focused however I am trying to incorporate more story and script elements into my content. Im naturally a visual person (im into photography and cinematic gear) as well as someone who enjoys the creation part of writing. Most of what im learning is for side writing projects for myself however id love to be able to write something at some point and submit to a contest.
I am glad to hear from both of you guys. I would really like to talk to both of you guys. What do you guys think of livestreams for people interesting in story creation? Kind of like this channel, except live (because nobody will be watching anyway) and instead of stars and experienced professionals it's just average people like us talking about story, available resources used, and their own projects.
I just finished this video and let me save you all 35 minutes.
If you want to, then do it. If you don't, then don't.
The. Outline is the blueprint for your story. Basically, it is the idea you are laying out, on pen and paper. Once it's on paper, the hard work is done.
This is such a wonderful channel. Thank you for helping me start my screenwriting journey, just about to premiere my first film at Venice Film Festival :)
Congrats Lucas! That is a major accomplishment. How did it happen? What is the film about?
@@filmcourage and he forgot to reply,lol
@@kailashsingha4073 hopefully means he's busy writing.
hahaha I think it was a joke. But it got me to check this vid of his which is pretty amazing: ruclips.net/video/713T4x89kMk/видео.html
Outline prevent writers block and developes a clarification of the structure of the story even if its protagonist
Thanks for compiling all this info into one video. After hearing Gary describe his 12 Sequence method at 11:34, I tried it myself and it has been immensely helpful. I'm working on the 2nd draft of a script, and had felt unsure about what revisions were needed. Now it's clear that my 5th sequence needs my protagonist to be more active, my last sequence needs to be completely rewritten, and my 1st act has the right ingredients to set everything up.
Also, for me my 1st draft is written with a sparse outline, to facilitate exploration between each plot point, like swimming freestyle from buoy to buoy. Controlled spontaneity.
My second draft is written with a more robust outline, to hone in on the journey and trim the fat. It's like having finished a road trip and now you have to tell a stranger about your adventure, except you have to cut out the boring parts and embellish the good ones. Your outline is your road map to help you remember what happened when.
@@ckrug32 My outlines are a living document, a dynamic document from start to finish. How much gets written depends on what stage I'm in. However, I don't start drafting until that outline has some meat on the bones. Otherwise, whole scenes, dialogue and characters need to be cut out.
Love that point, visualize the ending of the film, start from the end and work your way back.
That works sometimes, but not always. You need to know your catalyst first. That leads you to the end. The catalyst is part of that initial idea. What makes your hero do or not want to do something that leads to a climax?
Helpful beyond words for I am in the process of writing my first screenplay and everything I have read about it -- which amounts to a massive volume of material -- over a period of 3 YEARS -- still leaves me perplexed, whereas now I have clarity and know what to do first to get the actual writing under way without the mental guessing game ... thanks to these insights from actual screenwriters, some of whom whose work I have seen on screen! -- not some book or blog writer whose expertise is unknown, after all some people who write don't really have the actual experience they're writing about or they do, but they suck at it.
Both interesting and reassuring that different writers have different methods...all with positive outcomes.
A wonderful series of interviews, much more comprehensible on second listen too 😃
My favorite thing is what Aaron Sorkin says about how there's an Oscar winning script right there in your English dictionary. All there, right in your hands.
So helpful, these interviews and the brilliance and faith that each interview restores. The big blockbusters are so formulaic and of little interest to me. The transformation of the inner life; our protagonist because of experiences shared between them and us, the viewer is what interest me. Thank you. Thank you.
I think outlining is falsely equated with a sheet of bullet points and some dude going “boom, boom, boom,” spitting out short sentences for each scene. In my experience, there is a world of mental visualisation and “writing” occurring in my head as I think through the major outline turns. I’ve written and re-written elements of a story several times over in my head to work out ideas but I have yet to start a “first draft” of my current project. The difference between a pantser/gardener and plotter/architect might be akin to the difference between a person that talks (here writes) to figure stuff out on the fly vs the person that has to go away and analyse/think before presenting his/her idea to the world.
My professor used to say we're the CSI of emotions. We have that feeling we want to convey in the writing and then we have to solve for how to do it. And you're right, even when you're not writing you're always thinking about the case. You make bullet points, you cross off suspects until you finally have a plausible story of "the crime".
Yea. I'm definitely a gardener. I tried outlining a couple times, and I found it to be a painfully boring process. Jumping right into the script, and letting everything unfold organically and spontaneously as Markus Redmund talked about in this video, is very freeing and enjoyable. I do get frustrated, of course, but it's fun to work through.
Do you find your stories lacking in depth? Do you rewrite? How much do you rewrite?
Funniest thing I ever heard about "plotters" vs. "pantsers" was from the Writing Excuses podcast.
"What's one thing that a plotter can learn from a pantser?"
"Joy."
I'm a plotter - architect - myself, but that's funny.
Lol
I find myself being able to be both a gardener and an Architect. I love structure, for example, I love Baroque music, especially the most intricate forms, ie, Canons and Fugues. The craftsmanship of being able to write a fugue is similar to that idea of the seed, but only interms of theme (motiff), but after that its all craftsmanship of the highest order. For the composer, their understanding of theory and harmony, namely, counterpoint, inform or set the guidelines for the piece and their choices for developing that motiff. Most are familiar with the music that starts Fantasia, that is Bach's Tocatta and Fugue in D. Anyway, without a full understanding of theory and harmony, and counterpoint, one cant "intuitively" write a Fugue, unless your a genius and have internalized the fugue form and your brain outputs that without effort.
I think with screenwriting, which is just another form. a quite strict form, of storytelling, one has to have internalized what makes a great story. But even that is not enough. But the GOOD (or can we say working) gardeners, have to understand this, either intuitively or have learned it. They have got the important concepts of story telling and character arc already internalized and bring them out at will.
For me, I could just let it flow, but because of my lack of understanding of story and character arc, I've found myself writing the infamous PASSIVE protagonist. Rookie mistake. Moreover, I find that my first ideas aren't always working for me. I can imagine my characters acting in the world, and its fun to let my mind play, but to what end? This is where having an outline, for me, is becoming more appealing. I know it will save me time in the long run. I don't want to rewrite 7 or 8 times just because I haven't worked out the story problems. I enjoy the process of working those problems out before writing myself into them. For me, its lazy to not outline and think through the story and all the important elements that need to be there. Maybe after having written dozens, and read 100s of screenplays, I'll have enough experience to never outline, but I know for me, eventually, it will become second nature.
Where I think folks get into trouble though is when you dont allow yourself the freedom to break a rule here and there, but at least you want to know you are breaking it, and breaking it because the story doesn't work without breaking that little rule. However, the studio could decide to change everything to fix the rule you broke, so I guess what is important is that the story is working on all the right levels, then following the rules (from the outside looking in) dont matter as much, if its working, its working.
Beautifully put! I salute you, Sir!
32:00 This explains why so many movies are bad today. It takes time and dedication and several rewrites and edits to craft your script to perfection but the bizz only cares about deadlines. A two draft screenplay is a JOKE and not a funny one.
They're not reading enough that's the problem.If people did both who jniws what could be again.It's hard to be original but reading a good book that's what really matters.
Sometimes directors and new writers brought onboard ruin an already great screenplay. Directors come onboard with their on bright ideas and will tear apart a screenplay. That's why the original writer or writers aren't most times allowed on set.
Another reason I think most movies are bad is because a paid writers often times won't be passionate about the the script they're being paid to write. They spend 3 weeks to 3 months creating a Frankenstein monster of a script and turn it in.
Imagine Tarrintino writing a script and giving it to a director, and the director rewrites it his or herself, or brings another writer onboard and shoots it. Lol I'd be willing to bet it would be a mess of a movie.
Personally, I think their is too much material out there. Writing is something that should come natural, meaning their are a chosen few who are gifted enough to do it. There are exceptions that some can learn the craft. I meet people all the time who have an idea for a movie and never write it or can sometimes crank out one good script. The true gifted writers can crank out 1 to 3 good to great scripts a year.
I like to sit on an idea for weeks or months and piece it together in my head. I do jot about 3 to 6 pages of notes before I start writing.
My usual process, 1 paragraph idea > 1 page outline > 20-30 page treatment > 50-60 page treatment with some dialogue > 120-130 page first draft once formatted and adding remaining dialogue > completed script goes in the bin and I have some beers
I like that process. It resembles my process a lot. I start with an idea that is crafted into a logline (which could change as the story develops with the final version matching the actual script). Your 50-60 treatment is my three-act beat sheet with sluglines, that could include some dialogue, but I usually let the dialogue develop as the script is being crafted. Have pre-canned dialogue lines can sound corny, contrived or over-handed. It has to live and breathe within the scene, the moment.
I'm bit of a hybrid. I first spill out the general idea of the story, vomiting on the page. Then outline each scene and add structure to the story not the other way around.
“For me...” -every writer (main take away)
I love what Markus said...makes the most sense
i once was hired to co-write an action thriller.
there was a HUGE problem: I'm a gardener and my co-writer was an architect.
we couldn't stand each other. LOL
i was like, write the story already! he was like, we have to list out the story beats, outline, etc. and exactly like Tamika, i was like "what is this outline stuff???" LOL
I think the title of this video should be "To Out line or Not to Outline"
I got more ideas about screen writing and wil be trying with these information which is very helpfull.Thank You
When I write an outline it feels very organic. I’m just doing a paragraph or so per story beat, then move onto the next one. Sometimes there’s dialogue sometimes not. It’s just whatever’s relevant to the story beat. But it’s still putting one foot in front of the other in terms of discovering the story. I don’t know where it’s going to go specifically, I’m just feeling it out in an organic way. And I don’t get caught up in writing scene description or all the dialogue, which tends to happen (to me at least) when I try to write the script from page 1 in Final Draft. So I guess you could say it’s like a Gardner developing blueprints.
Great intro! Love the editing with the definition followed by alternating perspectives by example.
Thanks, we appreciate it. It was nice to have the different perspectives to piece it together like that.
Tamika, you're great. Thank you. That's exactly the way I do the so called "outline".
3:40 what's this ron meda 24 platform thing?
Thanks for asking Brennen, and thanks for replying Adam.
What?
ruclips.net/video/amW7864Lcn4/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/6Zmv3EQlA7g/видео.html&t
I think if a script is plot driven, an outline is time saving, suit-pleasing, and effective. But if a script is equally or more theme and story (emotional value) driven then any outline beyond 3-5 pivotal beats might be a waste of time.
Good point. Whether to "outline" may depend more on the story idea than what type of person one is.
As a inspiring architect and filmmaker this hits home. #starttofinish
Loved this, but wanted to ask about the "raw in media" mention at 3:41. Is there a link to it? Would love to watch or read what he is speaking on more.
I'm for sure a gardener...and my fingers get greener with every word...
Edit: 17:44 I'm with this guy!!
0:13 i believe he was referring to GRRM, who often describes the the two types of writers with this analogy.
I wish I could do some writing instead of watching all these great videos!
That's the best wish you could have. One you could grant yourself.
30 seconds in and I already understand. Great video!
Thanks Matt, glad this one is helpful.
Amazing work thank you for this
People who believe in outlines never tell you or show you what an outline actually looks like. It's a mystery and a subjective enigma.
Well, outlines are really subjective as everyone has their own approach to them. Gary Goldstein explained his system in this video, he went in great depth with regards to his structural process. He breaks his outline (which he sections into 4 equal parts) up into 12 sequences (3 sequences in act 1, 6 in act 2 and 3 in act 3), and each sequence is just a scene list of about 6 scenes. What's hard about that?
David Timber because you can do it however you want thought that was pretty obvious
Wonderful video.
Wow! I am not alone in my wild tossing of seed in my mental garden!😄👍😂💕
Also loved hearing that It is an experiment. I say that about my actual garden and am suddenly excited to look at my book in this way. I think I was close to this discovery yesterday, then this video popped up and hit everything on the nail. Thank you so much!!
I think outlining everything is better but it does take some fun out of it
Plotting really helps you save time by finding the big flaws faster. Fixing an outline on page two is way easier than fixing the script at page 55.
26:30 😂😂😂 love her!
19:42 XD the interviewer saying the word he was thinking of after he already said it hahaha
1 why only 130 comments smh, I feel like this is the best video
I feel like calling the outline a blueprint isn't quite accurate because I view the script itself as the blueprint for the film. Judging from what I observed, there are some misconceptions from both sides which make them think they are so different. Some of the gardeners were describing their process which included elements that sound like what architects describe as outlines and vice versa. I think what the gardeners are against is the studio version or structure of outlining but they have their own version of outlining, just like how the architects leave room for spontaneity within the actual scriptwriting/storytelling.
I would love to know the personality type MBTIs of the Architect vs the Gardener. I am an INTP and have to be careful "outlining or plotting out too much because once I "solve a problem" I lose interest in whatever it is including my writing and it ends up never written. I find I am better off "Instinct writing" . I will write out characters but everything else is in the moment, scene by scene in no real order till I reread what all I have written in a week and arrange them in order then the following week figure out where those chunks of writing goes in the slowly growing work.
That's great. You know your limitations and respond to that with a process that works for you. That's the whole idea. This isn't a one-size-fits-all thing, as seen in this video.
If i had to guess i would think it has a lot to do with p vs j. J's (intj here) would probably be more inclined to outlining but it is an interesting question. I tried writing without outlining and my script just died so now I do a ton of prep work before I try to actually type out the script.
i feel like an idiot ive started writing a screenplay for a few weeks now and i didn’t write an outline?? basically i went straight into it as a full script with direction and dialogue :(
Maybe you are a gardener? Keep at it and you will find the process that works best for you.
@@filmcourage really appreciate that thank you!!🙌
Cheers! We should note that the majority of writers we talk with do outline. And if you want to write for television you will need to outline.
3:40 can someone please tell me what Mr. Skelter is referring to with those 22 plot points? (he said "Ron" something..)
Believe he said "Ron Mita - 24-plot points." Thank you for watching!
@@filmcourage thank you so much! do you possibly have a chart or something written for this model? :-)
@@tiko545 Sorry, we don't. Believe it was a former instructor of Adam's? Unfortunately, we don't have access to his plot point model. :(
OMG Todd Krakow is a script writer??? Awesome!
Who are the speakers? I want to find out more about them but there’s no info in the description box
thank you
What is the exactley meaning out OUTLINE?
Where interesting to see how every screenwriters' process look differently.
Organic, intuit and the evolution of a characters soul is not going to happen based upon a formula, however, to know that as a writer, my own intuit is on mark, or close or actually has an innate rhythm is powerful.
Can somebody provide an outline ?
Do writers read any good books before writing the actual screenplay
Architects are great for puzzles. Gardeners must know how to prune.
If the gardener approach plants a seed and lets it grow (assuming a successful screenwriter using this approach), why does the plant consistently end up with 90-120 pages and plot/transition points in the conventional places? It's not a random development - it's probably that the author just can't articulate their process.
It's better to take an hour or two to outline your story, than to get to page 65 and wonder "what happens next?" If you know where you're going, then it's harder to get lost. But you still need to check your outline every once in a while, when you're writing the first draft, to make sure you're on track. Some of the writing is organic and it can change, due to character decisions that you hadn't thought about before, but the main story should still adhere to your original idea, unless you come up with something better.
I'm really confused now.I'm writing my first script and think both sides make a fair point that I can relate to.
Maybe try a little of both.
Create that skeleton and add enough bone on the meat to get that general storyline written down. That should leave enough creative room to let your muse run free. Then, when complete, see what you have. Are there enough pages? Does it flow nicely? Is the protagonist active or passive? Is there an arc for the main characters? What are the flaws? Does it make sense or is it forced? etc., etc., etc.
I know that guy didn’t read Song of Ice and fire series because no one thought that about the books.
GRRM should write an outline if it get us Winds of Winter!😅
I'd really like to hear Lucas talk about his writing formula
@Concept Gaming. I second that! Bring in George Lucas...
There are some things you can surmise based on the available script drafts and the behind-the-scenes glimpse we get of the process. To me what it seems like is he starts off with a brainstorm. He collects various ideas and thematic material and then makes notes of them. Those notes will spark other ideas. On the earlier movies he wrote treatments which is kind of a mid-level step between an outline and a screenplay.
Lucas had one advantage in that he had a bunch of artists on the payroll. What they gave back to him would often spur other ideas. For example, in the earliest two drafts of Star Wars, Darth Vader didn't wear a mask. Ralph McQuarrie thought he needed a breathing apparatus because in the second draft Vader has to cross the vacuum of space to board the Rebel ship. And so the mask was born.
Lucas then got the idea that it would be neat to have Vader always be in the mask. McQuarrie observed that Lucas then saw him as more of a tragic figure. And in the third draft, Vader gets a backstory where he hadn't had one before. He was just a bad guy doing bad guy things and then he dies in the end. Now he's a fallen Jedi with some connection to Luke’s past and he lives at the end.
Get used to writing outlines and treatments. Most writing jobs are writer-for-hire and your contract will specify a number of treatment and outline drafts before you get the go ahead to deliver the script.
You know I always make an outline before starting to write the script. Then when writing the script, I'd still figuring out the story not necessarily locked by the outline.
Act Two is the destroyer of souls when writing movies lol. Just like in tv, episode 5 (give or take) is the destroyer of souls
17:44 I am like him.
Anyone here really knows how a gardeners mind work, I mean an experienced one?
Onviously you will have to make a plan. A Garden is far from just letting it grow, when you do this it‘s called nature!
And now George Martin doesn't know how to end his story, because he didn't think of the ending...
Nah, he definitely has the ending, he just having trouble getting to the ending he wants
Either way he needed an outline.
There's only one kind of writer...YOU! For better or worse.
This will be very controversial, but most creatives or anyone as of fact, do not realize the potential they have to create their own path. You can create your own project. I see way too many talented people, creating amazing work, but yet they don't know how to take the next step to produce their own work. If you are relying upon your script only, for the majority it is not going to work. You need to tell the world about you.
Thanks DIAR, that is so true. Life is too short.
It's a collaborative work. Doing it yourself with drive you insane and leave you a bag of regret. But, be the leader of the three-ring-circus. Producer means something other than Writer. You have to market yourself. Having an agent or manager who believes in your art is also a great thing to have. Two heads are better than one. Three heads are a strong, unbreakable thing.
Good advice perhaps, but it has nothing to do with outlining scripts.
Chauncey Gardner?
'The Architect Gardener' - Coming Soon.
A failed writer moves back home to live with his parents, only to discover their old room falling apart and mysterious glowing plants growing up from beneath the floor boards. He falls in love with both the Architect and the Gardener, but is soon forced to choose which one he will spend the rest of eternity with..
and he's actually a dead person
Jack Ridge Gold! When can we start the co-write. ;)
@@joeygonzo Love it!
Anyone notice that Marcus Redmond sounds like Heath Ledger as Joker?
Who’s that at 24:00?
Rewind it to 21:58
I dont agree with the whole excessive outlining thing though, if I am honest. I mean, the extreme of neither is good but really my feeling is that when you outline a whole fucking sotry inn20-30 pages you can not understand you characters too well, because you end uo writing them based on rules. You dont give them space to breath. But on top of that, i find for myself that when i outline everything straight away, I lose some creative touch-the part of my brain that goes bizzirk when I can't find an idea doesnt exist-i place limits to myself, and thats very frustrating. So i think the best way to do it is firstly, always watch films and be an observer of story so that you jever lose those instincts. I think thats key. Secondly, in the actual writing, i outline my character within that world, i develop that world in which the story should take place, and then once I know that I often know my ending-or atleast have a vague idea of it-because of certain story elements and genre pieces that are already beginning to show. So once I know all this, I will usually write my first act super fast, coz its all outlined, but the second act has not been written, yet the next scenes are clear in my head. I know how my character would behave next, what should happen next when its a family comedy-drama, or horror or whatever. And thats it man. Dont make writing into this intensely maticulous process because I genuinely believe that creativity is often a problem solving response to bordom. Let yourself get bored in that middle part so your mind wonders of and comes up with some crazy shit.
👍 👍
I must be on another planet. I either know what I am going to write or I do not. In the former case, an outline is unnecessary. In the latter case, an outline is impossible.
Erik Smith If you know what you are going to write, then it is outlined, just not printed.
Is that the guy from Gilmore Girls??!!
Yes, he also helped to create the tv show Empire among many writing credits.
Not related to this greate video. But have noticed something about female writers, it seems like whenever they tell advice or a way to write is always emits from a very personal experience which touched them deep enough to dilute thier fictional creativity with reality. While Male writers tend to create something out of nothing. In fact they tend to avoid their personal reality.
Never go full free-write or else you'll get a RWBY.
Never just outline without writing a story or else you get Hollywood.
I often free-write while listening to a song, that song acting as kind of a mental outline.
and then I'll outline what I felt in that song.
*Counterattack from Xenoblade* is a recent song I've gotten inspiration from.
eh, that show isn't THAT bad.
Yes!! I'm a gardener!! 99% of the time.
Great to see you check this video out. Hope this revelation helps you with your writing process.
@@filmcourage Amen!
👍
As soon as I start writing an outline and doing all that stuff I LITERALLY lose the want to write that shit. Its not that I think Im above an outline its just that that's not how I operate but I guess I might as well learn but no one ever has a clear cut example they all have a different way of outlining and I just...idk that shit ain't for me. I'll still try but...it doesn't save me time at all. Just makes me annoyed and bored.
If writing is like music then teach me how to make people dance
I don't outline. I just open up final draft and start from page one
How long do you let your story concept ruminate and breathe? Just opening up a blank page with no idea seems to be very risky and could lead to a dead end story or driving off a cliff. However, that's me.
I don't outline. But I also don't go in blindly. Outlining is not a story.
But it's a map of what the story should be.
I love my Sci-fi story with the songs I have created.
Nice to take notes from people whose movies no one knows and have the lowest imdb scores I've ever seen.
TL; DW version:
Write your story first, then adapt it as a screenplay.
It's common sense really.
Too long a process and a gamble based on the sales of your book. How do you know your book will be well accepted and liked as a story that is dying to be made into a movie? It's faster and easier to write a screenplay.
@@jjkhawaiian
Write your STORY. I didn't say anything about a book.
@@99percentproof adaptation means taking it from one form to the next. Usually, an existing IP. I got confused with your use of the word. What you're saying is write the story out in prose form, like you would find in a book. Then use that as an outline for the screenplay. I get it, just not the use of the word, adaptation. It doesn't mean what I think you think it means.
@@jjkhawaiian
I know exactly what I mean when I use the word adapt. The dictionary agrees with me.
Take away is be a gardener