Near the end of MoP a dev (could have been Holinka) posted that more players participated in PvP than Raids or the SoO raid finder. This was in the days of oQueue, but even without that, even if you mainly PvE'd, it was always worth while to jump into a BG or two to end the night because you got decent rewards. My entire Horde guild transferred 1 character each over to Alliance so a group of us could get instant queues and we'd win 80% of the BGs. I've unsubbed and subbed many times since then, but that was the last time I PvP'd at a serious rate because after MoP Arena became the only thing that mattered. Hopefully 10.2 fixes this with the Brawl. BGs are the feeder system for Arena.
It was on its deathbed coughing in BFA, then it was on life support in Shadowlands, then it literally fucking died in Dragonflight. It's just dead. I'm sorry. Blizzard literally, does not, will not, care. Add-ons damaged PVE too. They literally design the fights around DBM. its pathetic.
Occam's Razor: The simplest reason is often the correct one. If it seems like the devs don't care about PvP, it's because that's correct... They don't care.
the fact the Tool Tips have had 0 change the past 15 years is pretty rough lol the PVP changes or effects should have always had its own gray toolip info. I think on the rewards side they should heavily incentivize rewards for even Random BGs and Brawls titles/appearances etc.
I played launch to cata. Came back last patch bfa through first patch shadowlands. Started a character 2 weeks ago. Everyone has 27 stuns ccs and speed boosts. I have kids now I don’t have time to memorize 1000 spells from other classes for pvp. Got to 1800 with my resto Druid with no add ons. Googled Reddit and RUclips to figure out what I needed. So much shit I can’t even tell what’s going on. I’ll just stay at my 1800 with no add ons. Lastly why am I winning 4or5 out of 6 solo and only gaining 10mmr? Going 3 for 3 and losing 200mmr. Fkin life of a healer.
Healers have it very bad in solo shuffle, I don't understand why blizzard isn't acknowledging just how horrible it really is. It's a huge part of the problems with solo shuffle. I commend you for even trying healer out after returning from such a long break. It's an incredible amount of information to learn, and even the information is hard to learn because there aren't pvp tooltips (WHY BLIZZARD)
True man, as soon as solo que came out the ease of accessibility destroyed 3v3. I was lucky to even see a group queuing at the end of season 1. I like solo shuffle but i didn't like how they didn't address the issues it would cause to everything else. Right now it just feels like a casuals way to get rewards. I miss world pvp man
Very few people actually buy gold. Can people get discouraged from playing if they think others are buying gold and "cheating" the system? Sure. IMO, the reason why WoW and WoW PvP is dying is cuz the game is too old, most people have moved on to other things. This is just the nature of games. The fact that WoW has done this well for this long is a testament to how successful a game it is, if you're a WoW fan, you should be proud. The only other game that has WoW beat in this department is the Korean anime MMO "Dungeon Fighter Online." That game is as old as WoW but still makes 1.5 billion dollars a year and claims to still have hundreds of millions of active players. How this game manages to not decline all that much after all this year is nothing short of astounding.
not just pvp, but the game as a whole. there is hardly a “prestige” in ANYTHING. sorry not sorry but I will gatekeep shit like titles & mounts that were an absolute rarity to come across, everything is just handed out now or can be bought for 20 IRL dollars. I’ve played for 18 years, every xpc. if it weren’t for HC classic, I wouldn’t be subbed.
That is true, I mentioned a little bit about PvE towards the end, but just mostly talked about PvP since it's always been Blizzards red-headed stepchild as far as care goes so it's been hit harder. Definitely affects all of the game
Good to see you back! I always enjoyed your Elemental Shaman videos. You are actually one of the inspirations that pushed me into creating my own channel. (I know I'm late to the show) but we'll see what happens. Content creation is all new to me but its fun.. so far.. Thank you Metallurgy!
Apparently they are adding the solo que RBG's, but it'll be unranked. I think they want to test it first to see if they want to make it ranked which is understandable. More solo que stuff, the better imo. Solo shuffle was a great start. And I agree, delete all the addons
@@metallurgy_gaming I believe the solo queue RBG's are ranked/rated. Now you can't get the mounts but you can climb and get the armor cosmetics and such. IMO they need to make mounts available in solo queue as well. More skill required imo, as like you stated you can simply buy carries with gold. However solo queue not exactly an option. Also adding my sub to you, I agree with all your view points here. Also enjoy you play Shaman :D
I dont think its dead. I played in DF at the start of s1 and now at the end of s2, honestly I dont have interest to go back and doing mythic plus keys, it just feels wrong
I agree with most of this tbh - but I think another issue with healing is that it's too stressful, give healers more damage and less healing, give dps better healing/survival. playing healer won't feel like you're just spamming buttons and getting ccd
Everything you said is Based and true. Only thing I personally disagree with is the cc issue. I think back to MoP when most win conditions were setting up complex cc chains and that was a skill gap... But for new players cc chains can be frustrating and make you wanna quit for sure so I can empathize. What's crazy is Twitch as we know it today was practically born and evolved on from WoW pvp... Most people back in the day on twitch watch WoW pvpers.... it was the #1 section and pve didnt get anywhere near as close to the amount of viewers so it makes you think that if you were Blizzard, don't you think you'd triple down on PvP since it's getting the most attention? Idk it just seems like a MAJOR internal leadership problem with modern Blizz probably because it's all about the profits and that's all that matters anymore. "F*ck the players (AKA THE CUSTOMER)" - Blizzard 2010-2023 Edit: Forgot to say this but my take is melee are WAY too mobile in the game now... there's just a million gap closers - so hard casting spells and kiting is completely destroyed.
It stems from blizzard homogenizing all the specs. The skilled cc that everyone wants is a chain cc from everyone in the group where if it's messed up, then they fail and might die or at least lose their kill window. But as of today, a single class can lock down a target all by themselves. Every spec has silences, stuns, cc's, knockbacks, mobility, immunities, etc it just feels terrible to play into. Especially when the cc has so many types of DR's. It's just unnecessary. If my druid clones and I miss my hex off that, I should get punished. Not just lasso him right after or kick his cast or knock him off blades edge. The cc chain is fine, but there has to be cooldowns and limits to how much it can happen. If a rogue and mage play perfect together, they can prevent someone from playing forever. That's horrible class design imo
@@metallurgy_gaming I couldn’t have said it better myself. If they want cc-chains to be in the game then they need to un homogenize the specs but if they’re going to keep it the way it is then yes cc nerfs are needed! I’m just not a fan of a pvp system where “whoever can pve harder wins” - to be that’s just kinda boring (just my opinion) I want some more skill gaps, not less Also get rid of addons. That shit 1000% scares new people away
The game got awful in Wrath of the Lich King. A lot of the PVPers that I played with since classic quit that then (I was rank 1 from s2 to WoTLK). It got super unbalanced and every PVP and PVE encounter became increasingly a disco light show and it was harder to tell what was actually going on. Beyond that, the game itself was becoming unrewarding and the PVP skill cap was being lowered all the time to allow for people with less time to compete at a higher level. Gear availability in PVP was a whole issue in itself but all these core factors combined made it unappealing for those that enjoyed PVP in the first 3 iterations of wow (vanilla, tbc and wotlk).
@@metallurgy_gaming personally I think first season of WoTLK was completely broken. Certain classes we're just broken for the entire season (BM Hunters + Prot Paladins). PVE was great in my opinion at the start, Naxx was a lot of fun. The game didn't become more balanced until S6. Matches were very quick but the skill cap was quite visibly lowered for PVP permanently which ate away at the PVP player base. Though agreed ToC was really out of place and not that enjoyable.
@@levantos Yeah I remember ret paladins and dk's being gods in wrath. I didn't pvp as much in wrath as I did pve, but it definitely wasn't as good as BC
As a healer main, I hit 1800 for the mog then stop pvping on that toon. Not worth the craziness for me. Love me some pvp, but just a hamster spinning on a wheel otherwise.
I strongly disagree with the gearing part, but agree with everything else. Also I think there should be diminishing return on interrupts too (maybe shared with cc) and all cc should be in the same DR (the game would be more playable in general and more comp would be viable). As a healer (or caster in general) there are games where I can not cast a single non-instant spell cause chain cc-stun-interrupt. I am not a pro I get it (I play between 1,8k-2,4k with my characters) , but you shouldn't be big pro to cast a f4cking spell...
The gearing part seems to be my hot take for sure, but yeah all cc including interrupts are just too much. Something I didn't mention, but even the spell pushback needs removed imo
@@palfotta yeah I thought they reverted the change cuz it was empowered with the tierset from 10.1. Since this patch has nothing to do with the season 1 it makes no sense it's still nerfed. They same happens with enha. They nerfed wolves and elementalist build cuz of the tierset (instead of nerfing the tierset per se). Now I wonder if they are gonna revert the nerf for 10.2 cuz there will no mastery increased with tierset. I see this is another problem in general. They nerf things because the class breaks the dps meter with the tierset. Then comes a new patch with other tiersets but the nerf are still there. I'm main ele, recently I'm playing bummy and it's ridiculous to see star waves with 130k when an earthshock only does 70-80k buffed with lava burst
It feels like an FPS when you have cds and hide and seek when you don't. I played rp pvp from BC to Legion. There is progress in DF, but it is still far from enjoyable. First of all they have to make the game fun again, only after then focusing on rated options!
As someone who tried pvp season 1 the overwhelming feeling I got was all the effort required to push above 1800 rating really really wasn't worth it. The amount of class knowledge of everybody's over bloated tool kits. Someone my other issues were just playing Marksmanship, I hate BM but feel like I'm stuck in their shadow. I got the pretty armor set and now I'll never come back just doing brawls, random battle grounds, and warmode if anything
It’s simple…Look at LOL the barrier to entry is learning a class that’s has 4-5 buttons and and no UI addons…Wow is overly complex and just to play a new class you have to invest hours and hours just to lvl and or gear and it’s too much vs a game like League where I go oh I wanna play a new character boom I pick him and I’m queued up 10 seconds later…In WoW I go I wanna play a new class…Oh wait that’s too much work, I think I’ll just take a break from WoW for now and maybe come back and maybe play a new class if/when I find the time, but probably never or not until next expansion
I have been on and off playing this game for 17 years. I've gone hard in every expansion for the first few months of their release. PvP has almost always been my favorite/most memorable experiences with this game. Enhancement shaman/arena was so demoralizing at the beginning of dragonflight that I was very close to quitting for good. I've recently returned and I'm hoping things have or are getting better lol
Simple answer ? Blizzard does not give a damn about pvp. They stopped giving a damn long long looooong ago. Accept that its a PvE game with PvP just put on long ago but never proper developed.
It's just gotten too serious and sweaty. I used to play WoW PvP all the time. I had over 100,000 honourable kills on my Warrior alone. I remember queueing into pug 2v2s purely for conquest(Not a fan of arena, I don't like the game-mode. I mainly liked Bgs and World PvP) Try that now, people get uppity and toxic if you lose a game. It's so cringe, so I don't bother any more.
I think you can disable chat altogether now, but that's still isn't good enough. Blizzard needs to do better at banning harassment and toxicity and preventing them from making new accounts
Havent played WoW in over ten years but theyve always been trying to get rid of PvP. It started with eliminating World/Open PvP and making it so you can teleport to raids and instance PvP battlegrounds and Arena as well.
I will probably get hated about this comment but worse decision they made was seperating pvp and pve gear. It used to give alternative gearing path and a reason to play the other type of content to players. Now only real reward from pvp seasons are sets and glad mount . Sets are usually lazy recolors and glad mount is mostly unreachable to players that doesnt pvp so they wont even bother now. Pvp needs actual reward progression
I think I would agree if competitive pvp didn't need gear at all and you could use pve gear for unranked pvp, but even that's hard because pve gear almost always ends up being better than pvp gear. It's a tough call and the community seems to be pretty divided on that. I think I lean more towards the pvp gear just because pve trinkets have traumatized me lmao
@@metallurgy_gaming im not saying it wasnt problematic but participation perspective atm for a casual heroic raider for example there is not a real reason to go out of their way to pvp. Back in bfa people did that to get extra weekly chest and shadowlands for a chance to get a weapon or something. Realistically those people will not reach the actual rewards like titles or glad mount and mostly they know that. When they removed the gearing part most of them stopped participating
@@baris9444 Yeah I think it is good for an MMO to incentivize you to participate in the other areas of the game. I think the reason so many people had issues with it like in BfA for example, was because the PvE gear was just way better and easier to target. Remote Guidance Device, Writhing Segment of Drest'agath, were just one shotting people the entire expansion and they didn't change it at all on top of requiring corruptions. There can be a healthy balance, but Blizzard is terrible at finding that balance lol
probably 10 people can be sufficient enough to go around and ban bots on the spot for all WoW servers. Gold farming bots that is. It's also not hard to find out if a dungeon or instance is being gold farmed; literally look at classic wow zone in Dire Maul... And to be honest; if your character name is oidqw coiqzjl or ddszzwi, I would watch your for 5min and tell if your a bot or not. But for PVP; im sure there's some way to figure out the cast to interrupt time stamp. If you happen to have a godly amount of interrupts that dont seem human; then flag the person, GM watch them in some games and make a determination. This is easily a full time job!
It's crazy how every single time I've seen something like this, it was an ongoing problem for months that had to be addressed by the community before being acknowledged by the devs and even then takes sometimes several weeks to implement fixes for. The gold botters and stuff are just hilarious, it's so bad haha, but yeah they definitely need people to watch these flagged potential abusers
Been playing wow since say 1 done hardcore and pvp. Not interested in it anymore. I want more adventure immersion, fun as do many people. Raiding and PvP is dying in mmos, people want more story, more adventure.
I think mmo pvp CAN thrive, especially WoW, it's just they don't ever do anything with it. Whether that's with innovation or bots, they're apathetic towards pvp and it sucks because it has so much potential. Group content is I think what is dying because it's just too difficult to bother doing *get 20 people for 1 person to consistently make a mistake* or *get 2 specific specs for a comp at a specific rating just to leave after the 1st loss* Look at solo shuffle for instance, that absolutely popped off when it first came out. Biggest engagement in wow pvp in a long time. Then they did nothing after that and it all died again
I play with 2 addons bge and plater witch is not a pvp addon and i got pretty far 2k its really not that bad just needs a few tweaks and ot will be better
Meh it died because people have become lazy, entitled and they don't pvp just to pvp anymore they have to have rewards and incentives. Ill give also Blizzard since they don't do shit about bots which ruin non rated BG's. Rated BG's and Arenas are all sweaty filled crap and pre-mades. Open world pvp every day in classic at Taren Mill and South Shore was where it was at it's hayday.
I don't see much point in this rant at this moment, Activision Blizzard has been sold to Microsoft and most higher up devs at Blizzard are only profit driven (not to mention the whole board). Truth be told I've played PVP most of the time in WoW until the end of Cata and then I continued on private servers (Wotlk too) and in my opinion pvp was never good. Like you mentioned before gatekeeping and toxicity was unreal and all the specs I wanted to play with were garbage most of the time so I was forced to play meta which quickly became really discouraging. And of course let's not forget the "flavor of the month" type of balancing the specs by Blizzard, Cata Warrior was the best example of it - balancing was anywher but where it should be, Fury became a one shot spec even for a blue geared warriors but in 4.3 Warrior was nerfed to the ground while the rogues were given a very moderate nerfing and been given the legendary daggers. Another big fuck up for Blizzard - post TBC legendary weapons like Shadowmourne and rogues daggers... These should have either never exist or never be as strong as they were made at that time. I know it's a bis weapon but itgives such a boost to dmg that even braindead morons could own people pushing 1800 rating at the time.
I'm sorry mate, but for a Point of View of a Father and a Husband, the Pvp is finally again fun. I don't need that much time for gearing and u can play good pvp. Wasn't possible the last 6 Years, cause of the Legendary or artefact or rift system we had. Also the point that pvp gear is better then pve gear (in pvp) , is absolute Spezial. And nice to have again. Actually I don't need add-ons, it's just routine. And the time invest I have there like in a Ui is never so frustrating as playing everyday Keys for getting enough gear to break trough 2k. Now it's all Possible, it's just all have that again, and for the PVE players it feels hard, but for the old school pvp boys it's a gift. We finnaly can play with blue gear and get better geared persons, because they aren't good enough. I actually feel like pvp is again more in his peek than ever before mate.. ^^
That's great that you're having fun again! I'm speaking on the more objective facts that the pvp isn't fun for the majority however, as is shown in any of the data. People have quit in large numbers and just don't enjoy it. I wanted to detail the reasons for the quitting in this video. But fun is subjective and if you're having fun, don't let anyone stop you! It is a game after all haha
#1 killer of world pvp, Flying mount
That is true for sure
Good, world pvp is trash anyways.
@@bobjones4469 you must be the dude who gets killed all the time in it
Yeah and that harpoon gun they added never works 🤣
Yeah because rogues ganking quest hubs and lowbies is great PvP right 😂
Open world pvp was always a joke and just enjoyed for griefers and gankers
Near the end of MoP a dev (could have been Holinka) posted that more players participated in PvP than Raids or the SoO raid finder. This was in the days of oQueue, but even without that, even if you mainly PvE'd, it was always worth while to jump into a BG or two to end the night because you got decent rewards.
My entire Horde guild transferred 1 character each over to Alliance so a group of us could get instant queues and we'd win 80% of the BGs.
I've unsubbed and subbed many times since then, but that was the last time I PvP'd at a serious rate because after MoP Arena became the only thing that mattered.
Hopefully 10.2 fixes this with the Brawl. BGs are the feeder system for Arena.
It was on its deathbed coughing in BFA, then it was on life support in Shadowlands, then it literally fucking died in Dragonflight. It's just dead. I'm sorry.
Blizzard literally, does not, will not, care. Add-ons damaged PVE too. They literally design the fights around DBM. its pathetic.
MMR system is a great tool for ranking how good players are, but in a game like WoW it's a hugely disincentivizing system for actual participation.
Unless you're a healer, then it just fucks you haha
I quit in cata and do not regret it man. Sorry to see the sadness bro. I get it.
Occam's Razor: The simplest reason is often the correct one.
If it seems like the devs don't care about PvP, it's because that's correct... They don't care.
Yep were all just pvp pauls to them
the fact the Tool Tips have had 0 change the past 15 years is pretty rough lol the PVP changes or effects should have always had its own gray toolip info. I think on the rewards side they should heavily incentivize rewards for even Random BGs and Brawls titles/appearances etc.
Yeah not having pvp tooltips is very sad, I just want to understand all the modifiers without having to look up something or find out the hard way
I played launch to cata. Came back last patch bfa through first patch shadowlands. Started a character 2 weeks ago. Everyone has 27 stuns ccs and speed boosts. I have kids now I don’t have time to memorize 1000 spells from other classes for pvp. Got to 1800 with my resto Druid with no add ons. Googled Reddit and RUclips to figure out what I needed. So much shit I can’t even tell what’s going on. I’ll just stay at my 1800 with no add ons. Lastly why am I winning 4or5 out of 6 solo and only gaining 10mmr? Going 3 for 3 and losing 200mmr. Fkin life of a healer.
Healers have it very bad in solo shuffle, I don't understand why blizzard isn't acknowledging just how horrible it really is. It's a huge part of the problems with solo shuffle. I commend you for even trying healer out after returning from such a long break. It's an incredible amount of information to learn, and even the information is hard to learn because there aren't pvp tooltips (WHY BLIZZARD)
Solo Que Killed the Rest of Arenas and Classic Killed Outdoor pvp in retail :(
True man, as soon as solo que came out the ease of accessibility destroyed 3v3. I was lucky to even see a group queuing at the end of season 1. I like solo shuffle but i didn't like how they didn't address the issues it would cause to everything else. Right now it just feels like a casuals way to get rewards. I miss world pvp man
Very few people actually buy gold. Can people get discouraged from playing if they think others are buying gold and "cheating" the system? Sure.
IMO, the reason why WoW and WoW PvP is dying is cuz the game is too old, most people have moved on to other things. This is just the nature of games. The fact that WoW has done this well for this long is a testament to how successful a game it is, if you're a WoW fan, you should be proud.
The only other game that has WoW beat in this department is the Korean anime MMO "Dungeon Fighter Online." That game is as old as WoW but still makes 1.5 billion dollars a year and claims to still have hundreds of millions of active players. How this game manages to not decline all that much after all this year is nothing short of astounding.
not just pvp, but the game as a whole. there is hardly a “prestige” in ANYTHING. sorry not sorry but I will gatekeep shit like titles & mounts that were an absolute rarity to come across, everything is just handed out now or can be bought for 20 IRL dollars.
I’ve played for 18 years, every xpc. if it weren’t for HC classic, I wouldn’t be subbed.
That is true, I mentioned a little bit about PvE towards the end, but just mostly talked about PvP since it's always been Blizzards red-headed stepchild as far as care goes so it's been hit harder. Definitely affects all of the game
Good to see you back! I always enjoyed your Elemental Shaman videos. You are actually one of the inspirations that pushed me into creating my own channel. (I know I'm late to the show) but we'll see what happens. Content creation is all new to me but its fun.. so far.. Thank you Metallurgy!
That's awesome! Thank you and good luck with the videos, it's tough out here! Hopefully we get some crazy news at blizzcon!
I'd come back to PVP if there were solo queue RBGs and solo 5v5 arenas. Oh and they'd have to ban all addons cuz I ain't playing those games anymore.
Apparently they are adding the solo que RBG's, but it'll be unranked. I think they want to test it first to see if they want to make it ranked which is understandable. More solo que stuff, the better imo. Solo shuffle was a great start. And I agree, delete all the addons
@@metallurgy_gaming I believe the solo queue RBG's are ranked/rated. Now you can't get the mounts but you can climb and get the armor cosmetics and such. IMO they need to make mounts available in solo queue as well. More skill required imo, as like you stated you can simply buy carries with gold. However solo queue not exactly an option. Also adding my sub to you, I agree with all your view points here. Also enjoy you play Shaman :D
I dont think its dead. I played in DF at the start of s1 and now at the end of s2, honestly I dont have interest to go back and doing mythic plus keys, it just feels wrong
Its funny, I like shooting boars with my wand in classic more, than doing m+ in retail. There is too much stuff going on the screen
I agree with most of this tbh - but I think another issue with healing is that it's too stressful, give healers more damage and less healing, give dps better healing/survival. playing healer won't feel like you're just spamming buttons and getting ccd
Yeah playing healer is immensely stressful, not even just because of the gameplay, but because of the stupid ways the mmr system works for them
Everything you said is Based and true. Only thing I personally disagree with is the cc issue. I think back to MoP when most win conditions were setting up complex cc chains and that was a skill gap... But for new players cc chains can be frustrating and make you wanna quit for sure so I can empathize.
What's crazy is Twitch as we know it today was practically born and evolved on from WoW pvp... Most people back in the day on twitch watch WoW pvpers.... it was the #1 section and pve didnt get anywhere near as close to the amount of viewers so it makes you think that if you were Blizzard, don't you think you'd triple down on PvP since it's getting the most attention? Idk it just seems like a MAJOR internal leadership problem with modern Blizz probably because it's all about the profits and that's all that matters anymore.
"F*ck the players (AKA THE CUSTOMER)" - Blizzard 2010-2023
Edit: Forgot to say this but my take is melee are WAY too mobile in the game now... there's just a million gap closers - so hard casting spells and kiting is completely destroyed.
It stems from blizzard homogenizing all the specs. The skilled cc that everyone wants is a chain cc from everyone in the group where if it's messed up, then they fail and might die or at least lose their kill window. But as of today, a single class can lock down a target all by themselves. Every spec has silences, stuns, cc's, knockbacks, mobility, immunities, etc it just feels terrible to play into. Especially when the cc has so many types of DR's. It's just unnecessary. If my druid clones and I miss my hex off that, I should get punished. Not just lasso him right after or kick his cast or knock him off blades edge. The cc chain is fine, but there has to be cooldowns and limits to how much it can happen. If a rogue and mage play perfect together, they can prevent someone from playing forever. That's horrible class design imo
@@metallurgy_gaming I couldn’t have said it better myself. If they want cc-chains to be in the game then they need to un homogenize the specs but if they’re going to keep it the way it is then yes cc nerfs are needed!
I’m just not a fan of a pvp system where “whoever can pve harder wins” - to be that’s just kinda boring (just my opinion)
I want some more skill gaps, not less
Also get rid of addons. That shit 1000% scares new people away
The game got awful in Wrath of the Lich King. A lot of the PVPers that I played with since classic quit that then (I was rank 1 from s2 to WoTLK). It got super unbalanced and every PVP and PVE encounter became increasingly a disco light show and it was harder to tell what was actually going on. Beyond that, the game itself was becoming unrewarding and the PVP skill cap was being lowered all the time to allow for people with less time to compete at a higher level. Gear availability in PVP was a whole issue in itself but all these core factors combined made it unappealing for those that enjoyed PVP in the first 3 iterations of wow (vanilla, tbc and wotlk).
I think trial of the crusader in wrath is where everything (including pve) started falling apart lol
@@metallurgy_gaming personally I think first season of WoTLK was completely broken. Certain classes we're just broken for the entire season (BM Hunters + Prot Paladins). PVE was great in my opinion at the start, Naxx was a lot of fun. The game didn't become more balanced until S6. Matches were very quick but the skill cap was quite visibly lowered for PVP permanently which ate away at the PVP player base. Though agreed ToC was really out of place and not that enjoyable.
@@levantos Yeah I remember ret paladins and dk's being gods in wrath. I didn't pvp as much in wrath as I did pve, but it definitely wasn't as good as BC
As a healer main, I hit 1800 for the mog then stop pvping on that toon. Not worth the craziness for me. Love me some pvp, but just a hamster spinning on a wheel otherwise.
I strongly disagree with the gearing part, but agree with everything else. Also I think there should be diminishing return on interrupts too (maybe shared with cc) and all cc should be in the same DR (the game would be more playable in general and more comp would be viable). As a healer (or caster in general) there are games where I can not cast a single non-instant spell cause chain cc-stun-interrupt. I am not a pro I get it (I play between 1,8k-2,4k with my characters) , but you shouldn't be big pro to cast a f4cking spell...
33:00 Ohh I understand now why ppl dont play (or with 1 point only) with Magma Chamber...
The gearing part seems to be my hot take for sure, but yeah all cc including interrupts are just too much. Something I didn't mention, but even the spell pushback needs removed imo
@@palfotta yeah I thought they reverted the change cuz it was empowered with the tierset from 10.1. Since this patch has nothing to do with the season 1 it makes no sense it's still nerfed. They same happens with enha. They nerfed wolves and elementalist build cuz of the tierset (instead of nerfing the tierset per se). Now I wonder if they are gonna revert the nerf for 10.2 cuz there will no mastery increased with tierset. I see this is another problem in general. They nerf things because the class breaks the dps meter with the tierset. Then comes a new patch with other tiersets but the nerf are still there. I'm main ele, recently I'm playing bummy and it's ridiculous to see star waves with 130k when an earthshock only does 70-80k buffed with lava burst
It feels like an FPS when you have cds and hide and seek when you don't. I played rp pvp from BC to Legion. There is progress in DF, but it is still far from enjoyable. First of all they have to make the game fun again, only after then focusing on rated options!
yep gameplay >>>> everything else
As someone who tried pvp season 1 the overwhelming feeling I got was all the effort required to push above 1800 rating really really wasn't worth it. The amount of class knowledge of everybody's over bloated tool kits. Someone my other issues were just playing Marksmanship, I hate BM but feel like I'm stuck in their shadow. I got the pretty armor set and now I'll never come back just doing brawls, random battle grounds, and warmode if anything
Yep there has to be big changes. Even pushing for 2400 in season 1 was annoying af with the que times
It’s simple…Look at LOL the barrier to entry is learning a class that’s has 4-5 buttons and and no UI addons…Wow is overly complex and just to play a new class you have to invest hours and hours just to lvl and or gear and it’s too much vs a game like League where I go oh I wanna play a new character boom I pick him and I’m queued up 10 seconds later…In WoW I go I wanna play a new class…Oh wait that’s too much work, I think I’ll just take a break from WoW for now and maybe come back and maybe play a new class if/when I find the time, but probably never or not until next expansion
I have been on and off playing this game for 17 years. I've gone hard in every expansion for the first few months of their release. PvP has almost always been my favorite/most memorable experiences with this game. Enhancement shaman/arena was so demoralizing at the beginning of dragonflight that I was very close to quitting for good. I've recently returned and I'm hoping things have or are getting better lol
Enhancement was very very rough haha us shamans have had one of the worst track records in WoW PvP history. It's been brutal man
They need to incentive pvers to play arena too
Even most pvpers don't like arena. Most pvpers play BGs
Simple answer ? Blizzard does not give a damn about pvp. They stopped giving a damn long long looooong ago.
Accept that its a PvE game with PvP just put on long ago but never proper developed.
Sad, but true brother
It's just gotten too serious and sweaty.
I used to play WoW PvP all the time. I had over 100,000 honourable kills on my Warrior alone.
I remember queueing into pug 2v2s purely for conquest(Not a fan of arena, I don't like the game-mode. I mainly liked Bgs and World PvP)
Try that now, people get uppity and toxic if you lose a game. It's so cringe, so I don't bother any more.
I think you can disable chat altogether now, but that's still isn't good enough. Blizzard needs to do better at banning harassment and toxicity and preventing them from making new accounts
Havent played WoW in over ten years but theyve always been trying to get rid of PvP. It started with eliminating World/Open PvP and making it so you can teleport to raids and instance PvP battlegrounds and Arena as well.
Pvp is definitely the red headed stepchild of the game lol
I will probably get hated about this comment but worse decision they made was seperating pvp and pve gear. It used to give alternative gearing path and a reason to play the other type of content to players. Now only real reward from pvp seasons are sets and glad mount . Sets are usually lazy recolors and glad mount is mostly unreachable to players that doesnt pvp so they wont even bother now. Pvp needs actual reward progression
I think I would agree if competitive pvp didn't need gear at all and you could use pve gear for unranked pvp, but even that's hard because pve gear almost always ends up being better than pvp gear. It's a tough call and the community seems to be pretty divided on that. I think I lean more towards the pvp gear just because pve trinkets have traumatized me lmao
@@metallurgy_gaming im not saying it wasnt problematic but participation perspective atm for a casual heroic raider for example there is not a real reason to go out of their way to pvp. Back in bfa people did that to get extra weekly chest and shadowlands for a chance to get a weapon or something. Realistically those people will not reach the actual rewards like titles or glad mount and mostly they know that. When they removed the gearing part most of them stopped participating
@@baris9444 Yeah I think it is good for an MMO to incentivize you to participate in the other areas of the game. I think the reason so many people had issues with it like in BfA for example, was because the PvE gear was just way better and easier to target. Remote Guidance Device, Writhing Segment of Drest'agath, were just one shotting people the entire expansion and they didn't change it at all on top of requiring corruptions. There can be a healthy balance, but Blizzard is terrible at finding that balance lol
sadly yes, wow pvp has the potentiel to be the most fun/competitive thing ever, but it's ruined
probably 10 people can be sufficient enough to go around and ban bots on the spot for all WoW servers. Gold farming bots that is. It's also not hard to find out if a dungeon or instance is being gold farmed; literally look at classic wow zone in Dire Maul... And to be honest; if your character name is oidqw coiqzjl or ddszzwi, I would watch your for 5min and tell if your a bot or not.
But for PVP; im sure there's some way to figure out the cast to interrupt time stamp. If you happen to have a godly amount of interrupts that dont seem human; then flag the person, GM watch them in some games and make a determination.
This is easily a full time job!
It's crazy how every single time I've seen something like this, it was an ongoing problem for months that had to be addressed by the community before being acknowledged by the devs and even then takes sometimes several weeks to implement fixes for. The gold botters and stuff are just hilarious, it's so bad haha, but yeah they definitely need people to watch these flagged potential abusers
Been playing wow since say 1 done hardcore and pvp. Not interested in it anymore. I want more adventure immersion, fun as do many people. Raiding and PvP is dying in mmos, people want more story, more adventure.
I think mmo pvp CAN thrive, especially WoW, it's just they don't ever do anything with it. Whether that's with innovation or bots, they're apathetic towards pvp and it sucks because it has so much potential. Group content is I think what is dying because it's just too difficult to bother doing *get 20 people for 1 person to consistently make a mistake* or *get 2 specific specs for a comp at a specific rating just to leave after the 1st loss* Look at solo shuffle for instance, that absolutely popped off when it first came out. Biggest engagement in wow pvp in a long time. Then they did nothing after that and it all died again
I play with 2 addons bge and plater witch is not a pvp addon and i got pretty far 2k its really not that bad just needs a few tweaks and ot will be better
Solo RBG hype 💪💪💪 - good video btw I agree with most of the stuff
Wow had pvp ? The more you know...
Way to much CC!
Hey brotha long time no see. Hope everything’s good
It's been a rough year, but trying to slowly come back!
yes! we missed you! hope eveything is okay
Thanks! Things are a lot better, not perfect, but a lot better!
They are still MONITORING! The best is yet to come! NOT.
Totally agree 👍
Make sure to follow me on twitch! twitch.tv/Metallurgy
True words with the Addons
Blizzard in name only
hmmmm lemmon pie
Meh it died because people have become lazy, entitled and they don't pvp just to pvp anymore they have to have rewards and incentives. Ill give also Blizzard since they don't do shit about bots which ruin non rated BG's. Rated BG's and Arenas are all sweaty filled crap and pre-mades. Open world pvp every day in classic at Taren Mill and South Shore was where it was at it's hayday.
I don't see much point in this rant at this moment, Activision Blizzard has been sold to Microsoft and most higher up devs at Blizzard are only profit driven (not to mention the whole board). Truth be told I've played PVP most of the time in WoW until the end of Cata and then I continued on private servers (Wotlk too) and in my opinion pvp was never good. Like you mentioned before gatekeeping and toxicity was unreal and all the specs I wanted to play with were garbage most of the time so I was forced to play meta which quickly became really discouraging. And of course let's not forget the "flavor of the month" type of balancing the specs by Blizzard, Cata Warrior was the best example of it - balancing was anywher but where it should be, Fury became a one shot spec even for a blue geared warriors but in 4.3 Warrior was nerfed to the ground while the rogues were given a very moderate nerfing and been given the legendary daggers. Another big fuck up for Blizzard - post TBC legendary weapons like Shadowmourne and rogues daggers... These should have either never exist or never be as strong as they were made at that time. I know it's a bis weapon but itgives such a boost to dmg that even braindead morons could own people pushing 1800 rating at the time.
Let's hope the Microsoft buyout will cause some changes for the better. Fingers crossed for blizzcon too lol
I'm sorry mate, but for a Point of View of a Father and a Husband, the Pvp is finally again fun. I don't need that much time for gearing and u can play good pvp. Wasn't possible the last 6 Years, cause of the Legendary or artefact or rift system we had. Also the point that pvp gear is better then pve gear (in pvp) , is absolute Spezial. And nice to have again.
Actually I don't need add-ons, it's just routine. And the time invest I have there like in a Ui is never so frustrating as playing everyday Keys for getting enough gear to break trough 2k. Now it's all Possible, it's just all have that again, and for the PVE players it feels hard, but for the old school pvp boys it's a gift. We finnaly can play with blue gear and get better geared persons, because they aren't good enough.
I actually feel like pvp is again more in his peek than ever before mate.. ^^
That's great that you're having fun again! I'm speaking on the more objective facts that the pvp isn't fun for the majority however, as is shown in any of the data. People have quit in large numbers and just don't enjoy it. I wanted to detail the reasons for the quitting in this video. But fun is subjective and if you're having fun, don't let anyone stop you! It is a game after all haha
who asked
yo mama
PVP is better than it's ever been, just snowflakes who need everything tweaked to benefit them.
war mode is the worst thing ever, they should remove that crap, if you do not want world pvp, go on a pve server
Ahhmm....no one plays WoW anymore dude