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EXCLUSIVE! LIPPERT RV FRAME and Powder Coating Factory Tour!
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- Опубликовано: 3 мар 2024
- #rv #towing #trucks
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Notes:
*They do have a weld certification program and train welders.
*Over 600+ welders in this one facility
*RV manufacturers pick the specs and GVWR
What is the certification program? And why do the welds still look so bad? Open up any fifth wheel and look at the welds most of them are bad.
Certification of your own welders is not the same as a full apprenticeship.
Down hand weld with GMAW is less than ideal.
I worked at a military aviation depot for 36 years and during my time I helped set up the powder coat shop and created processes for powder coating. What I noticed was they aren’t applying a powder primer what we experience was after several years of testing that we would start seeing corrosion and rust without primer and with primer during the same testing period there was 75% less .
Most likely why most lippert frames today that are only 1 year old look 20 yrs older than my 2013 unit today's frames are full of rust even when new
Maybe they are as scummy as the RV companies and only worried about there bottom line as well, bad business knowing that there coating only last a year or so and you told them why.
SO LIPERT WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT???
Appreciate the Lippert videos. As a mechanical engineer, I can appreciate what they do. That said, as the owner of a 2024 Lippert chassis, they are still poorly protected from rust. Very poor. I don't know exactly what kind of powder coating they use, but it's too thin and not robust enough. I've touched up the already-rusting spots on my new frame, and Rustoleum in a spray can does a much better job. If curb appeal is important, they need to step up their powder coating game as it's one of the first things that makes you grimace on a new RV. Again, thanks for doing these videos.
I agree with this. They could use a better protective coating.
I agree. My 2 year old frame has rust spots on every weld I have to touch up and did from the lot.
It’s my understanding that powder coating is cheaper not necessarily better but companies imply that it’s better because its cheaper lol. Epoxy or another etching product is needed on the bare metal to have real rust/corrosion protection.
@@shaungarrett3938they need to dip them like an automobile frame
The guys in the booths were not liking being videotaped
Nice effort to show what they do in a tightly controlled environment ( controlled by lippert) I also saw no inspection stations. I also heard loud and clear lippert pushing all the blame on others.
I would pay extra for a frame that could carry the load up front without relying on cabin walls for stiffening, even if it meant the RV was 1,000lbs heavier.
It would be worth it for them to use chrome molly where all the breaks occur instead of the lesser grade metal they use . Steel has various strengths of steel .
As a certified weldor myself, I'm thoroughly impressed by the manufacturing process you documented in these videos. I had never even heard of Lippert until I started watching/reading about the frame issues certain manufacturers, and one in particular, who I won't name, are having. Lippert certainly looks to have a first class fabrication operation. I can't comment about the powder coat, but their manufacturing is among the best I've seen. Good job on the questions you asked. It was very thorough and quite frankly I'm surprised they were as candid and provided as much behind the scene as they did. They certainly don't look like they're trying to hide anything and are trying to be completely transparent, which is nice to see. Before watching the first video I was expecting a PR person and staff attorney to be following you around and getting involved with the questions. This didn't appear to be the case, which is nice to see.
Look at the videos of what Lippert is pushing out of their factories. I was going to go with Grand Design, not anymore, JD knows trailers but obviously not the proper way to build them.
@BigTruckBigRV - I love these 'how they are made' videos. I am glad you have a good relationship with these folks and RV manufacturers that allow you to come in and take video of how they work.
My older rv’s utilized thicker I beams, now they are c Channel and thinner material.😳 cross members are very important mine are sheet metal at best if any. Boxed steel frames are best with thicker , boxed frames is money well spent. Pot holes, speed bump, train track crossing and bridges are offset so let’s build the rv for the real world!!!!
We bought a 2019 Grand Design travel trailer. The first time I crawled under it and looked at the welds, was very disappointed. We use it for local trips only and it is presently for sale. The only way I would trust it for long distance would be to spend time reinforcing the frame and suspension.
I find it timely that you have a Lippert video after all of the frame flex videos. I guess sponsors control the content.
Only if they sponsored me right? Brother, you didn't catch that these videos are because of the Frame Flex issue? Lol. No conspiracy here. It's all been disclosed
@BigTruckBigRV just testing you. Great resonse and thanks for the clarification.
Guy with the sledgehammer was like “ stop filming me, I need to beat the crap out of this outrigger” 😅
He's "tuning" them.
Shackle hanger reinforcements should be a 100 percent must....there is virtually zero cost involded in adding them while the frame is being built and absolutely zero excuse not to have them
I am extremely impressed with this set of videos and the factory making the frames. I am surprised at the number of comments criticizing the video because you didn't challenge their answers or ask the questions about frame flex/failure. It is a video of "here is what we do". Personally, I would have liked to have seen an assembled 5th wheel upper deck tested like the single beam was in the first building. But then even that is not the same as testing the complete final product, but that would be at the manufacturer. The problem is with the final manufacturer of the trailer/5th wheel. That is who you have a warranty with when you buy the RV. That who specs the frame. That is who makes sure they are using the frame correctly. They easily could make the upper deck of the frame a little beefier, and while it would add some weight, it would not be as much as some people believe. However, as long as customers make buying decisions that include cargo capacity, manufacturers will try to get as close to minimum RV dry weight as possible.
I would love to see a video at the manufacturer plant showing how they put the superstructures on and together.
Seems like a given follow up project. Atleast we can hope.
JD I definitely appreciate your efforts, however unless I've missed something can we talk about a very important step in manufacturing, QC.
how many frames are being inspected before shipped to manufacturer
thx
I had the same question. I worked at the production facility of an electronics manufacturer. Circuits were sampled for quality at almost every step of the process.
Numerous places in this video welders are mig welding vehicle and upside down. I worked at a major farm equipment manufacturer in the past and upside down mig welding was never down and vehicle ws done on about a 45 deg angle. Jigs and fixtures were used to position the steel pieces before be welded. If needed the jigs and fixtures were able to rotate so the welding could be done horizontal.
The appearance of the weld is not necessarily an indication of a strong weld. After there failures in the field especially of the weld holding the hub to the sprocket, the welder had to have a first piece inspection before being allowed to continue. This first piece inspection involved cutting the part in two and etching with acid to see the amount of weld penetration.
This whole series showed me the chassis is not strong enough! To expect the aluminum & fiberglass walls to support more than the weight of what is above them is ridiculous! I do believe it is the RV's manufacturer responsible to insure the chassis is strong enough, this series sure sounded to me like a sales pitch from Lippert!
Thanks for the videos. This is an awesome eye-opener and thank Lippert for allowing it.
If I ever start manufacturing RV frames, the powder coating process will REQUIRE the use of a primer on EVERY frame we even THINK about making. Not only that, but we'll pick one type of frame within the RV industry and stick to only making those. When you focus on only doing one thing, you become outstanding at doing it.
Full jigs & robot welders.
@@chip9177 Robot welders can break in a way you need a tech wiz to fix.
@@ColtonRMagby Doing one thing over & over robots are the only way to go. We had a robot welder back in the 80's welding Harley upper & lower gas tank mounting brkts.....never missed a beat, all welds perfect & identical. One guy to load & unload the jigs.
@@chip9177 True, but the welds will all look the same.
In my career as a structural Ironworker/welder I worked with many other certified welders, some were very good and some were horible and made me wonder how they ever passed their certification tests. Another factor is how well they read blue prints to know the size and length of the specified weld and also to make sure that all areas that are designed to be welded actually are. This also requires proper weld inspection. Lippert appears to have a first class manufacturing facility and it looks more and more like the Brand of RV has more liability than they assume.
I agree with this. I would be curious if they perform any NDE (non destructive examination) like penetrant testing or mag particle testing on the critical welds. Just because sometimes welders have a bad day, or it’s Friday(end of shift)
I'm impressed with their operation. If they built trailers that no one could damage no one could afford them. I've got thousands of miles on some heavily traveled roads. I am truly amazed how many campers now travel our roads, especially come Friday. Sad part is too many are driving like idiots. Speeding way over posted speed limits. Loaded up to the gills. Always in a hurry..
Good point.
I've owned 4 trailers and I have crawled underneath all of them and sprayed a rust inhibitor on the frames. I do it every 2 years.
Thank you for the Lippert videos. Kind of like being there.
Hand down one of the best videos I have seen on this channel. Excellent work JD.
This series has been very educational for me. Thank you !!
Very informative. Enjoying the tour 👍
Very kool thx for clearing this confusion up
The roving vets show a closeup of their grand design frame welds if anyone is interested.
Poor choice for a video to mention, since they had no broken welds and everything around the pinbox was fine.
I've watched all these videos. You know what hasn't been shown? An actual customer who was a broke frame that was accepted as a fail by Lippert. Or where Lippert has actually fixed a broken frame. Basically these videos are ads for Lippert. And there has been absolutely no help for customers. Get out the shovels. Waist deep and growing.
Love the videos. I took mechanical engineering in college. The need to put some braces from. The two risers to the frame. To stop the flexing of the frame and the raised part.
Very impressive! Thank you for the tour
Should have showed a closeup of the welds.
JD I enjoy your videos. Learning a lot about frames of RVs. Looks like Lippert frames are built good because quarry control and welding. I still believe what you said about frame flex and believe something has come undone, or water or people use atchments that not approved by Lippert. It seems a lot people always blame others when something goes wrong with things. People got to think when you built mass frames sometimes things pass through but that's rearly happens.
Wow what a great video thanks
Check out the welds on the tong assembly art time 17:46 I am very sure that is not a filet. It is a cold weld with puddled wire. As these are in the next stage of assembly there is no quality inspection. What do you think?
Sorry the time stamp is 5:52
In the video when looking at the upper deck attachment points a see MANY butt joints with no gusseting. That’s a problem. At about the 4 minute mark where it shows the upper deck it clearly shows possible failure points.
Thank you! You have educated those who think they know what’s wrong with their RV.
I am curious as to how they strengthen the shackle hangers? Thanks again 🇺🇸
At the end of the day, the manufacturer is telling them to built it as cheap as possible while still maintaining the specifications. If more is added the price increases. I love how must people that comment don’t know welding procedures. I was surprised how good the near white blast was done before painting, yes it could always be better but that’s what there asked to give. Overall they do good work. All this in MY opinion.
I have enjoyed the Videos! Thanks. And I must say I was impressed by the noise canceling of your mic!
That was all the software my friend. Otherwise there was a super high frequency sound that would have drove everyone nuts....not talking about my voice:)
Should have done a hardness test on these frames! I put a floor jack under the main I-beam and it bent. I was trying to block it up to take the weight off the hydraulic jacks which is recommended in the owners manual! It all metal is equal.
Doesn't that get demonstrated at the end of the video?
These are good videos but the people with issues are not going to buy any of this. They are angry and have a right to be maybe. My idea would be put the frame engineers together with the manufacture of the rv. Maybe the frame builders can come up with a better way for the manufacture to do things because no matter how strong the frame is if the box on top is done wrong it’s a failure
That's not a bad idea, however if you RUclips search frame flex on Gooseneck trailers, you'll see they are SUPER heavy and SUPER Heavy duty and they are still designed to flex. With really long structures like this you have to either make a structure so large and heavy and braced everywhere that it would never work for the RV industries weight requirements or would tear itself apart from not being able to flex. Plus, the cost would be huge. It's all about trade offs is what I'm realizing.
It was good that Lippert people clarified their role as welder/fabricator supplier according to customer specifications and drawings. End of story!
Thanks for the well-produced video - the cooperation from Lippert was impressive. The only thing not shown was the engineering analysis of the basic designs. I would expect to see finite element analysis to verify defections under load, vibration sensitivity, strength at temperature, shock loading (crash resistance) and sensitivity to user loading. Does Lippert use 3-D modelling when designing each chassis and is this used to estimate weight, and material quantities? Is each chassis marked for future traceability with serial number or bar codes? Does the factory have material inspection and test capabilities? Could more of the welding be automated to avoid production variations/weaknesses?
No question this is an impressive facility. I’m still looking for the engineering space which is studying frame failure. Where is it?
Another great video. I really enjoyed this
I heard they comment the the frames are designed and built with an engineered safety factor (SF). JD Was that SF ever shared? Based on all the RV manufactures having input on material strength used in their frames I suspect the SF varies across them. Most likely they will not share, but it would point your viewers to the better built RV frames if they did.
Instead of gussets only being on the sides of the frame where the overhang of the fifth wheel box is, they need gussets that go front to back to support that overhang. All your weight is pushing down on that overhang causing stress. Put more reinforcements/gussets to keep from frame stress!
Lippert is clearly freaking out about this and trying to get out ahead of it.
That tells me it’s a huge problem and they are anticipating lawsuits (if there aren’t any active already).
I suspect we will be hearing about this for years to come and frames will continue to fail as recreational users slowly put miles on their units.
Exactly the reason for this series.
I appreciate you making these videos. I really do. And I am certainly NOT an engineer. But I cannot understand how a wall made up of aluminum studs, Azdel and fiberglass could ever withstand frame flex that is beyond specifications. If the steel tubular frame flexes too far, the wall would never have the strength to stop it.
I wonder how long the employee meeting was before the “ guests “ arrived.
Your video helps to understand what really happens in the build of Lippert Frame. Hopefully this will educate those that create so many rumors that float around on the web. It's unfortunate folks have problems with their frames and I hope solutions result from all your hard work in this series of videos. Finger pointing needs to stop and consumers, manufacturers and dealers need to start working together to solve problems. Sadly consumers get ignored & dealers and manufacturers don't respond to issues. Hopefully this Frame Flex issue results in better built units moving forward (fingers crossed)
Great to see welders and workers. Not all Robots...( yet, I guess )
Have you noticed everything is 1/8th thick and I believe knife metal which is brittle .
Good stuff - learn lists from your vids
Great video! Very informative
And again at the 15 minute mark the finger is pointed away from Lippert . And pointed directly at the Rv manufacture .
There shouldn’t be any delaminating occurring as many of the reps for the walls and insulation along with rv sales people explain the wall will not delaminate by showing a sample in water. So I believe you had that wrong. Also you appeared to blame the owners for overloading there RVs without any proof, especially given how many owners are complaining about this issue not all of them have lithium batteries and $20K in solar. The frame should be so robust that it can’t ever have these problems imo I could be wrong. Overloading shouldn’t cause your frame to rust nor should a washer dryer etc.. Manufacturers and dealers offer numerous upgrades that are going to add weight clearly,apparently that’s not taken into consideration. Btw a lot of RVs can be ordered with massive solar packages, custom paint heavy duty axles suspensions brakes etc. If the rv can’t handle it then these options shouldn’t be offered or at the very least the dealer should have had the rv weighed and gotten approval from the manufacturer before adding more weight not the consumer. I certainly appreciate you trying to broach this subject but I completely lost it when appeared to blame the owner for overloading with washers and dryers and solar packages.
Another great, informative video. It highlights the importance of understanding not just what the factory does, but what the brand insists on. These engineers are more than happy to beef up frames and may even suggest it, but it sounds like some brands would rather save a buck.
It is amazing to see how large the facilities are and how many units they can produce each day. What is the life span of powder coating versus galvanized frame? Most RV users only use them during summer months but I RV year around and in snow country. How can I minimize the impact of ice melt on my RV frame?
4:43 is your problem. One hole every couple of feet to attach the wall? Plus he said they use glue. OMG..I looked how my semi trailer is build and there are 4 rivets every foot attaching the wall. So on 40ft 5th wheel you should have 160 rivets attaching the wall to the frame.....
Great job! Thanks for sharing this with us.
An okay video. I'm sure time constraints and proprietary limitations keep from actually focusing on step by step build process of a single trailer. Anyhow.
Now let's see what QC is doing with the trailers. How are the trailers inspected from tip to tail.
Excellent content /videos. So the RV manufacturers are ultimately responsible for the chassis because they tell Lippert how they want the chassis built from watching your videos.
Afterthought; In doing a cursory search for frame flex videos it seems that there is mainly one RV manufacturer that is having these problems. Am I missing something here?
I think there have been many RVers with different brands over the years who believe their units have had this issue. GD is the the main brand everyone is concerned about now, primarily with ToyHaulers.
The reason you're seeing so many Grand Design videos is because the company gained a huge following and popularity based on the quality and function (back then) so many RUclipsrs that began filming their adventures jumped on the bandwagon and made the purchase. Some used, some new, but most have many miles of being fully/overloaded and now experience problems. Also during this time the company changed hands and corners began being cut. Now, here we are.
This has been a very good series.
Some thoughts on this one.
The one engineer made a comment about how it’s up to the manufacturer to decide how they attach the house to the frame. That strikes me as very interesting with what has been engineered to be a monocoque chassis and thus depends on the house for proper structural rigidity. That potential disconnect could be a problem area.
Given the focus on speed of production I wonder about their ability to consistently deliver high quality welds across the entire frame. Poor quality welds could certainly cause the frame failure issues. Another RUclipsr recently stated that the reason he dissolved his relationship with Lippert was because of stories he was getting from Lippert employees about things like poor quality welds.
Which RUclipsr was this? I've honestly not received any emails or contact BEFORE this trip from anyone at Lippert saying theres issues.
@@BigTruckBigRV wandering weekends. It was in a comment thread.
Did you know Lippert has a RUclips channel ✌️
They do, you should check it out.
What are they doing at Lippert to the rv frames in questioned to fix or strengthen it?
If Lippert gave a crap about their reputation, they would demand the manufacturer give them the weight of weight bearing areas and test that the frame can handle that. That way they would have proof that they care about the product they build, and if the builder deviated from the basic specs received, then they should at the very least drop them as a customer. As far as engineers go, their recommendations mean crap without testing and it seems you have been invited to see ALL AREAS of the plant so if they had a testing facility, I gather they would of at least shown you some if not all of it.
I’m surprised they don’t have hoods over welding areas to suck out fumes.
I was expecting a full view of the straight frame and drop deck uprights. That's where the problems start.
Not in many cases.
@@Itsa_Mea where do the problems start?
Theres no define answer and is case by case. But many do not notice a problem until they are hooking up or unhooking and see the pinbox mount moving independently of the structure (coach). Loose lag bolts for the coach to frame on the upperdeck, broken sidewall welds near the upperdeck slideout, are contributing factors to the failures. Some units will have one or both indicators along with popped screw heads on the trim of the upper deck ect.
The frame issues I've seen on the portion you referred to were caused from wore out leaf springs, use of Sumo bump stops, & overall overweight. The upperdeck issues are far more substantialand costly to repair. @@georgeholmes3411
Lippert is damage control mode with their shitty frames. I don't care how many youtubers they pay to promote them. I'll never buy an RV with their frame.
They certainly didn't pay me anything to make these videos.
@@BigTruckBigRV That’s great to hear you aren’t sponsored by LCI and they didn’t cover your travel expenses or time for these videos. 👍
The content and effort of the videos is good but still there is shinnanigans going on so let’s see what good ol grand design says. I certainly see what the frame company is doing tho.
Lippert claimed their welders are certified to Lippert standards. To what standard are Lippert weld procedures and processes certified to, AWS, ASME Sec IX? Are the welding and destructive test needed to qualify weld procedures witnessed and certified by an independent body or third party?
I noticed that QA/QC didn’t have a representative present. Does Lippert employ Certified Weld Inspectors (CWI) ?
Is Lippert ISO certified?
They claim to build per “specifications”. What specifications? If so does Lippert contract qualified independent third party inspection and certification personnel to verify compliance to these “specifications and standards”?
1,000 units per day, reeks of questionable quality.
Well, call them and find out
They have to meet literally no guidelines but their own. These are very crude mass produced basic frames. Nothing high tech like SEMA welding happening here...lol
I always found JD’s review informative, but this time I don’t understand why he his doing a Lippert infomercial!
It's not, these are for informational purposes only. Not intended to be a blame game. BUT you'll be surprised what Lippert's going to do because of them.... Coming soon I hope
Well I am in the market for a new 5th wheel specifically a GD 381 I’m definitely holding off I feel as if not all parties are being very forthcoming. I think this going to turn into a firestone ford wear they just point the fingers at each other
I don't know how to do this job, but i do feel that this video came out at this time a little interesting. This seemed scripted, which i get it, you need to tell your side of the story or what i like to call, CYA! Cover your ass. So my question is, how or where does the problem come from, in terms of this whole frame flexing issue start? I don't own an RV yet, but I am looking into buying one soon, so I'm doing my research. Should i look at frames when i go to buy? And what should i look for in a frame? Meaning is one frame design better then another? Hope everyone can come together and solve this with Dignity and respect to both the buyer and the builder.
Most of your interview is you making statements and asking the Lippert people to agree with you. This is less an interview and more you leading the interviewee to the narrative you want. This should be much less you talking and more lippert talking.
ALL VERY NICE, but I saw the broken cracked frames and the damage that resulted. All we want to know is how they are going to fix the problem and the mess. A HAPPY LITTLE VIDEO DOES NOTHING!!!!!
Looks like a legal question of who is responsible for the frames failing. What we do know is some frames on fifth wheel and bumper pull RV trailers fail. What we don't know is what is common , if anything to the failures that have occurred. It has been reported that the failed frames are all manufactured by Lippert for the OEM RV manufacturer but that needs to be confirmed. The next question is how were the RV's that have the problems loaded, to what extent were the trailers that sustained damage over or under loaded by the owners. Road hazards also impact how an RV frame is damaged is used under normal or abnormal rated limits.
There have been videos by certain RV OEM's that Lippert makes the frames to their specifications. Did the specifications include the steel to be used , welds used, and other attachments to any automotive spec? The wind up is we need as customers disclosure and accountability fast before everyone's reputation is blemished and as a Certified RV tech. I need parameters of what to inspect when I work on an RV to perhaps give a customer a heads up before someone hets killed or injured.
One question or lippert welders certified I know I used to work for Xcel Energy and we had certified welders because they work on natural gas piping
I know this series is of the present time, but the failures I've seen are on units PRIOR to the practices filmed. For example, the failures are the old style pinbox mounting, not the new Rhinobox Space Saver Frame. Also the powder coating seems newer also. My 2024 has it but my older 5er was flakey paint.
I believe the development of the RhinoBox frame system is Lipperts answer to the breaking pinbox frames of previous years. So to me that shows they are doing "something".
Another popular RUclips RV channel, spoke about how a manufacture tried to bully and buy her off from publishing a video about broken frames. They offered to fly her out, pick up all expenses, give her a RV and make her an "ambassador" of their product. She rejected the offer and published it anyway... earning the respect of many including myself. Were you offered any money or perks to do these videos? I ask because the interview and its timing felt packaged with preprepared answers.
Lippert should do more than suggest how a frame should be manufactured. It’s their name on it, they need to have much better minimum standards to their frames. Make it so when you are shopping for an RV you want it to have a Lippert frame.
Do the x-ray the welds an audit to make sure they’re right
Not sure, didn't ask them. Sorry
It would seem to me like for quality purposes they can x-ray those welds on one of the frames that they build a week or day. Please let me know.
Because I bought a toy hauler with lippert frame after 3 years my cross member welds are starting to break.
What is their safety factor?
Good question. And what load do they proof load that prototype to?🇺🇸
Semi truck frames are assembled with huck bolts and rivets for a reason...strength for long life. Look at any semi truck frame, you won't see any factory welds on flanges. All truck frames use bolted in place suspension hangers and cross members.
I saw they were welding on the top flange of those 5th wheel frames. That isn't good for strength. Their transition from the upper to the lower "deck" sucks. Not enough strength. That transition area takes a lot of stress when moving on the highway. Look at any over the road semi trailer with a drop frame design...that area is heavily reinforced.
Their frames look to be a little better than a Home Depot 5x8 utility trailer.
Wow, i actually thought it was paint on the rv chassis. My boat has powder coat frame on trailer looks so much different than my rv frame.
Depends on the year. They did NOT always powder coat. This is something more recent.
I see they are using Miller equipment which is excellent welding equipment. I would like to see what size wire they are using, wire speed, and voltage. I have always liked your videos they have been very informative however this looked scripted and I never saw a quality control tech inspecting anything.
I’m sorry but I have to throw my two cents worth in watching this video. Watching how they welded the wings onto the I-beam and how quickly that he welded them tells me that they have hardly any penetration between the two pieces of metal. Yes I’m sure they have pretty looking welds, but he ran a straight line without any side to side movement or what people with call stacking dimes in that will process. If that’s how old the welds are produced in the pin box and the transition into the frame, I wouldn’t trust that as far as I could throw it. They are welding quarter inch steel. Just from that small piece of file video there’s no way in hell they are getting penetration on their welds to truly connect. All of the structural components.
I’m not a welder but somebody please prove me wrong! I’ve seen hundreds upon hundreds of videos of other welders that go a quarter of the speed to try and get correct penetration of their welds to get strength between components. Am I wrong in assuming this? I’m not trying to be an ass, but I would truly like to be proven wrong in my thinking.
Doesn't matter if the welds are "pretty" when I see them prepping zero surfaces. Welding the rust directly into the seam. No wonder they break.
edit: It's shocking really. None of those joins are clean. None of them.
edit again: Their blasting the rust off *after* welding? ...... No wonder the welds are breaking and rusting immediately. They say it right in the video. omg
So, let's see, you use a 1/4" weld to a base metal of maybe 1/8". Is that what you just said? Now I understand why we are seeing frame failure out there. .
My favorite part was the dude waiting for you to move on so he could beat some stuff up with that 8# sledgehammer...also welding thru rust and mill scale , vertical down welds, I wonder if they are using er-70s6 wire and c25 or dual shield, short circuit doesn't like dirt rust and mill scale
Funny how they didn't allow videos on their plant process until it became common knowledge that Lippert was the manufacturer of Grand Design 5th wheels with frame flex. All the sudden " Utube influencers are getting invited to Lippert. . Why did you not mention the subject to them ? I assume they told you not to ask.Frame flex is a big problem to Grand Design and the parent company Winnebago industries
I wonder what the percentage ratio of the safety factory is talking about, 5% or 10%?
It would be interesting to identify where most of the cracked welds are being reported and what their comment is
HUGE ISSUE WHYE DOES THE OUTRIGGERS ONLY GO HALF WAY DOWN NO NO, i had to fix my own frame flex by redoing my own outriggers,
I am not a welder but I do understand pressures and stresses in lumber and framing. I would never want a pinbox designed and produced like this one. It is engineered to fail. Produce these like a horse trailer or car trailer pin box and design the floor plan from that. Sad that they did not say this is what were adding to correct the issues as stated
After watching this video and seeing how the welders are welding, it’s obvious it’s a bunch of tack welds and not a continuous weld across the weld. Way weaker!
These arent BBQ pits for Oil Field Pipe, they need to hold and also be engineered. Watch this video of a high end Horse trailer. Same thing. ruclips.net/video/Jsvwy2ol4MY/видео.htmlsi=Zf1c8v0gLHALYAtS
@@BigTruckBigRV
Hats off to cimmaron trailers, there is a big difference in engineering and quality !
I think we all know Lippert can look at certain failure areas and improve their frames easily but that in turn would add more cost per unit and add to the durability, but the BIG question would the cheap manufacturers purchase them? You should know that the manufactures are not pushing Lippert for their best possible quality. They are begging them for the bare minimum cost frame each design can get away with and they are finding that failure point now that more people are buying the max size rigs and going fulltime with full weight and pushing their minimalistic designs and quality to their breaking points. Problems like this are all based on corporate GREED and not on building the strongest or best quality product. The workers can weld everything perfectly but if the overall design is engineered too lightweight there will be failures. The beam processing facility was the only area that was actually impressive to me.
too many owner reports of frame flex and underengineered frame components. those that own RVs that include Lippert frames are saying stay away from them.
Uh huh. But that's not going to stop any manufacturer from specifying a barely-sufficient frame, or downright lousy overall structure. They're in it to make a buck in a competitive market. I'm in it as a hobby and to make the strongest, overbuilt unit that I want to at my own pace, using industrial methods and tooling from a variety of industries as I choose.
A small gooseneck camper is nowhere near as complicated as an on-road motor vehicle, and doesn't need the billion dollars or so of development and certification every model year. But you can do well by paying attention to structural and materials basics that high-volume trailer manufacturers will cut corners on at every turn.