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While Ghost in the Shell SAC is a good series, season 1 and 2 are very unique anime. You'll get love or hate no matter which version you do, dubbed or subbed. Dubbed does better on RUclips, because of the fans of the voice actors. ☮️🇨🇦
You guys have to understand, not only was this movie a trailblazer, it inspired the Matrix and tons of other movies after that. The manga is even older and ask similar questions as well, it's from the mid 80's... this serie is basicaly the seminal text for those posthumanist questions about merging with AI and cybernetics. Not only were the questions hyper accurate and relevant today more than never, the author even forsaw medical issues with brain implant we had to faced called neurosclerosis, where your brain harden due to the presence of poor quality implants in the system (we found work arounds after that, but he foresaw it 15 years before we started to implant things in the brain). And you,re right, the live action movie has nearly nothing in common with the original work, it is by far lesser on the scientific, philosophic and psychologic side of things. It is in every way a pale copy. I strongly suggest watching the 2 first seasons of the Ghost in the Shell serie (Stand Alone Complex) and not the abridged version as a single movie and to watch the 3rd movie: "Solid State society". The rest is quite meh, but those two seasons are intense.
Regarding the Ghost in the Shell/Matrix similarities...Ghost in the Shell was a big influence on The Matrix. The Wachowskis literally showed it to a Producer as an example of what they wanted to make, and they asked permission to the Ghost in the Shell creator before making The Matrix
But Matrix is ass compared to this masterpiece and is my genuine opinion, when i watched Matrix for the first time and i saw the similarities i was like.. Man this movie sucks LOL
@@madquest8 Comic book writer Grant Morrison accused the Wachowskis of ripping off his series *The Invisibles* as well. I don't recall if anything ever came of that, but I do know he was livid over *The Matrix.*
The irony of the Hollywood "remake" is that for an entry in a franchise with the nature of identity as a major theme, while it might have looked the part in many ways, it had no real identity of its own, having essentially just recreated elements from every other iteration and stitched a generic plot around them. It was a shell without a ghost. A body without a voice.
I still think the saddest bit about the remake is that like, the scenes they did themselves like the club assault or Batou talking about how his eyes make animals sad. Those are really good, fantastic, just tied to a story that doesn't seem to quite get it and recreations of iconic gits moments.
@@tgiacin435 Hence the quotations I used around "remake". However, the movie does remake a number of scenes from many iterations and stitches them together to form its own narrative, and frankly, not as well as any original.
Regarding the Major's "bad choice", it's not like she had much better alternatives. It was a gamble that might've paid-off. Thematically it aligns with how detached she is to her shell. The goal takes priority, the body can be replaced
It reminded me of Old Man's War (although GITS obviously came out first), the way you fight changes completely if you know your body can be reconstructed, which makes it disposable
@@JacopoBasanisi But Batou doesn't see it that way, he cares about the Major as a person. So he avoids watching her get naked on the boat and covers her nudity up.
Motoko get's naked all the time without caring about it... well yea... she is much more emotionally detached from her body being a part of herself. It's more like... equipment. So why would she care much about showing it? Batou is less detached in that way. He stayed much more "human" and socialized in a lot of ways than Motoko which shows for example in him covering her up all the time. This movie is pretty amazing in a lot of ways! And yes, Stand Alone Complex is a great show, too. and for the record: I'm always amazed at how northern american people are soooooo focused on "OMG, visible nipples!!!" 😂
@@AR-yd2nd absolutely! It's like: never mind the guy who exploded from the waist up right in front of our eyes. Nothing to even blink at, but OMG NIPPLES!!! 🤣 (btw: no offense meant to you northern americans! I just find this so weird)
She's not necked most of the time folks. She has on a suit, that's a shade darker than her skin. And this guy is obviously a sexual focused guy! ($exuaul deviant) personally maybe! He is not the American representative here. Lol... and this proves my theory about that some Anime dub movies. That they should be watchng Eng dub sometimes. Because of the complexity of some Anime, trying to read , and watch complicated subject matter , will lose your focus during the movie. Movies like this one, Akira, Appleseed, Vampire D., Ninja Scroll, and other Sci-Fi type of Anime. And they have very good voice actors. And these titles usually have Awesome dub s in English too. After that I would say, rewatch the same movie in Japanese dub on the second watch. Whenever you can another time. That way it's not so distracting trying to read and miss most of the movie . Lol, that will get frustrated. But good English dubs are out there with the Classic movies like this Ghost in the shell one is. Just saying. Especially if you are not a big anime watcher, or an average reader, speed wise.
Technicly, Kusanagi is not naked. Her thermo optical stealht suit is made of a translucent skin tight material. You can see the edges on her neck and wrists when it's turned off and also it shreds before her skin does when she tries to open the tank's hatch
The caucasian thing, Motoko says "hakujin" (白人) which literally translates as white person. The pacing is more in line with traditional Japanese cinema (where they were more aligned with the pacing of French cinema than American). Even at the time it was viewed as too slow by Americans. (IMO the DVD subtitles were better, both in timing and translation.) As far as runtime goes, well, they certainly had a lot more material they could have used from the manga. Beyond having a slower pace as a broader norm, this was a Mamoro Ishii movie and those slow contemplative moments are a hallmark of his.
GITS and Bladerunner are two fundamental flicks that defined the look for the cyberpunk genre. You see their influence in almost any modern cyberpunk-adjacent work.
@@shauntempley9757 GitS itself borrowed alot from Western cyberpunk genre, especially from William Gibson's books. ESPECIALLY from his greatest novel - 'Neuromancer'. Basically, all Project 2501 plot is a big nod to Wintermute AI from said novel, right down to consciousness merging in the end.
Cyberpunk genre existed waaaay before GitS. Bladerunner was an adaptation of 1968 book and I wouldn't even call it "cyberpunk", rather sci-fi variety of the good old noir genre.
@@jsmith6599 Not only "The Neuromancer", but also a lot of 70's 80s European comics influenced Masamune Shirow, I have no proof but also no doubt about It.
They absolutely trashed the story in the live action which is why most GITS fans pretend it doesn't exist. Casting Scarlett Johansson was the least of that movies problems. If you liked this movie I absolutely recommend watching the Stand Alone Complex series next!
they actually said that the live action wasn't a remake and is set in a separate time lime like how GitS SAC was set in a different time line from this movie.
Because that's when you see a random bystander who looks identical to the Major, which demonstrates that her body isn't even unique, it's a mass production model.@eye1dry138
That poor garbageman's situation is so heart breaking. He has honest real love for a wife and daughter that never existed. He has to live with the death of a family that never existed.
The music score of this movie is friggin’ beautiful! …Akira and Ghost in the Shell are arguably two of the most influential Animes on most movie Directors for the past 20-30 years. Mamoru Oshii (the Director) wanted to make something more understated and along the lines of cop dramas like Michael Mann’s HEAT … Masamune Shirow’s mangas (he wrote and drew Ghost in the Shell) also tend to be very heady and heavy on exposition.
Kenji Kawai did a great job with the soundtrack yes, my favorite tracks are "making of a cyborg" and the track that plays during the intermission when you see different views of the city after Motko talks with Batou on the river.
GitS helped popularize it but cyberpunk as a genre had been around for over a decade before the manga was written and was already pretty close to it’s modern incarnation. Even both the Cyberpunk RPG and Shadowrun RPG predate GitS and I wouldn’t be surprised if Masamune Shirow was thumbing through copies of the sourcebooks when he was writing GitS because it uses a lot of the same concepts and stylistic choices.
There's a couple of things going on in the long panning shots. First, there's a concept in Japanese storytelling/movies called something like "Ma". Basically, it's time to breath, reflect, and help pace out the movie. It's not filler or blank space per se. Without those times, the action and thoughts have less meaning or you can get fatigued. There's a few Hollywood movies that kind of get it. Dredd is the main one I can think of that does. Another thing about the panning through the market scene that is easy to miss on the first viewing, remember that the Major has picked a specifically plain/standard base body (albeit souped up with military/police upgrades) for a variety of reasons. While panning through the neighborhood, it keeps focusing on civilians that have the exact same standardized body that she has. It sells that her Shell is the same as others and the Ghost makes the difference. Among other things. On a completely separate note, her plan with the tank at the end was to run it out of ammo then rip the access hatch off and disable it from the inside. Her cyborg body wasn't quite strong enough to pull off the last step and failed catastrophically. In one of the GitS series, likely as a callback, she actually did pull it off against a less beefy spider-tank.
Fun fact, since Cyberpunk keeps getting brought up AND the Judy mission as well... Judy's avatar for her phone/text message is a ghost in a shell. Fun little nod. GitS is one of the seminal cyberpunk creations during the height of cyberpunk popularity, while the movie also marks the transition to the late 90s take on post-cyberpunk as well. Phenomenal work of art.
One of the big things that bugged me about the live action is that Motoko was one of a kind. In the original, one of the hangups is that her body is just another copy from a model series.
Part of it is so she can go undercover, her outer shell is based on a very popular model. Her internal parts are all top of the line military grade though.
That's actually intentional. Since she is a secret agent her body is based on a common body (though it's significantly boosted compared to what is available to the general public)
I think the live version is dumbed down and more heavily explained than all the other versions. It has a smoother storyline and explains itself as it goes. Scar Jo is just the cherry on top.
The nakedness comes from 2 things: 1. The Major's invisibility is built into her skin, so if she wears clothes, she can't turn it invisible. 2. The author of the manga used to be a pin-up artist (I believe), so reason 1 is (likely) the result of reason 2.
Shirow actually became more of a pinup/hentai artist after GITS. He did have a fair amount of nudity and mature themes in his series though even back in Appleseed. I collected his comics when Seishinsha and Darkhorse were bringing them to the US in the mid/early 90s. I came for the cool mecha and crazy story but I stayed for the boobs and naked ladies; i was like 16. Sue me. The Appleseed Mange is still some my favorite of his work though. I loved the idea that humans people had sort of pushed themselves into obsolescence but that the machines which were sort of made to serve man just kept going and when they found actually people they tried to help them acclimatize to the new world, instead of going all kill crazy. Also Deunan and Briareros were a super cute couple.
@@nullunit Damn, I didn't know Appleseed and GitS were made by the same guy ! I discovered both around like 20 years ago through their film adaptation (never read the manga tbh), and I really liked both and they kinda shaped the kind of content I enjoy. Well, the more you know :)
The cityscape shots are mood enhancers and wordless world-building. It's to emphasize the squalor, the commodification, and the isolation and loneliness of the high-tech life. You can tell it was heavily influenced by movies such as Bladerunner, which also had slow-panning shots of cityscapes. The movie is a 1 hour and 18 minute condensation of an entire graphic novel. Makoto's backstory is very tragic, depending on which version you have watched; it's been rebooted or revised or retconned several times. Canonically, she was fully cyberized at the young age of 9, so her relationship with self-formation and humanity is very different from others who chose to be cyberized as adults.
i mean if were being real her outfits sometimes are just almost like ads for her OF. other times actually literally with the logo or even actual name OF. shes hot AF and hes cool with it so more power to them i guess. especially now
The long artistic shots have a lot of meaning. The whole atmosphere and most items displayed are meaningful if you combine them with Motoko's thoughts about identity.
Thats why i love old anime movies, they took the time to have these shots and establish atmosphere. Like the saying an image is worth a thousand words.
My memory is blurry, but I'm pretty sure the art of insert shots started with Japanese film. Just innocuous pauses in the film to build atmosphere and let it breath.
People are not used to this kind of filmmaking and pacing anymore indeed. Since everyone is now trained to have the focus timespan of an hamster, movies feel they can’t have this kind of noir, Blade Runner, Heat, Stalker style subjective scenes that just want to provide beautiful symbolic imagery for the viewer to immerse themselves. It allowed viewers to let the story and ambience sink in, to think about the story previous to that scene, and it’s just evocative of personal feelings. Like when you put headphones with some introspective music and just watch the world outside go by on a rainy night.
The word is "memeplex". It is used to describe a set of memes that reinforces each other to some outcome - accidental or otherwise. Our perception of the world, and how we act within it, in turn shapes the world we live in. It's mostly just human nature and culture, but it has a more sinister cousin - PsyOps. There are examples of people that are adamant they have met "a cult of personality" in an event that never was and that person never existed in the first place. It's a common trope in sci-fi where entire worlds changes their politics/religion by external influences and we see it today with international politics, bot-farms, deep-fakes and fumbling of the far left and the rise of right-wing. The Mandela effect is an example of a memeplex and the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov is just full of memetic engineering.
This is an amazing animated series! It has been rebooted a few times, but you guys should watch the original Ghost in the Shell - Stand Alone Complex anime. It is really great storytelling. I have watched that series year after year and it never gets old to me.
If you liked "Ghost in the Shell" and would like to watch another cerebral anime series, I highly suggest "Serial Experiments: Lain". This series is so deep, and considering when it was made, strangely prophetic in it's depiction of the current internet. "Ghost in the Shell: Innocence" -- the much delayed sequel -- is also insanely good and is a great mind screw.
I love Ghost in the Shell. If you wish to continue down this amazing rabbit hole I highly recommend the TV series, Ghost in the Shell : Stand Alone Complex. Its first season is amazing. The dub is fantastic and really helps since the subs can sometimes be a bit confusing. The voice actors they picked were perfect for every character and they really went all in, no holding back! The TV series, season 1, really dives deep into a few topics, not the least of which is more on the concept of self and on cybernetics in general. Some of the questions they raise are so good, and rarely do they give you a solid answer, they just let you ponder the question.
Also, the usage of "memes" in this movie is correct. Memes don't actually mean "stupid internet jokes". The term "meme" was coined by Richard Dawkins, and he intended it to work like a "memory gene". An idea that continues to exist and is replicated from person to person, like a virus. So talking about genes and memes is talking about biological and epistemological reproduction.
This is a treat. While the movie suffers a little from pacing, in my opinion, its concepts and execution are great. Of course, I'm a sucker for anything cyberpunk. Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, while not in continuity with this movie (most GITS isn't, just like the various Gundam shows), is awesome.
Depending on how long the strike continues, most of the reaction shows have ended. GiTS SAC isn't a good replacement for The Expanse. Nerdy and Clarus would love it.
GITS SAC is clearly on of the best animated show I ever watched. It has the opportunity to go deeper into the characters and doesn't hesitate to spare an entire episode on a semingly unrelated story or a secondary character to expand the lore It's more faithfull to the manga than Oshii's movie and Yoko Kanno's score (Cowboy Bebop, Escaflowne, Wolf's rain...) is a masterpiece of eclectism (as usual)
@@axlm.808 Agreed. However Nerdy Nightly won't be reacting to anything new. Crew of Blind Wave has already started a new series to wait out the Strike. GiTS SAC is months or years away, on this channel. 😁
@@NerdyNightly Oh nice, the two SAC seasons of GITS are nice, though they have this strange hybrid form of a more episodic approach with a developing storyline that slowly builds up until it takes center stage. Not sure how you'll like that aspect of it, but thematically it's quite clearly aimed at adults and has very few anime-isms (though there's still some).
The "five brunette ladies" are ghostless assistants. They're used for routine tasks, but lack initiative. Motoko was trying to rip open the Tank, that's why she looked so "jacked" using all her strength... and breaking herself failing. It was a good thought, but the tank was a lot tougher than she expected. The memes that 2501 talks about are from Dawkin's talk about The Selfish Gene, and refers to memes as units of cultural expression. Which is kind of what we have today in memes. Though not exactly like memes today. That concept wasn't really there yet when the movie was made. The movie was made from a small bit of the manga. Shirow really had a lot of ideas and thoughts, and it explores a lot of ground. Only a tiny bit was used for the anime, and some more was used for Stand Alone Complex. If you find the movie challenging, you'll get a real workout from the manga. Especially the second one. :) Also, the live action movie is nothing like this. Nothing at all.
A lot of the scenes in regards to nudity and gore are directly correlated to the theme of soul and body, for the Major who is almost entirely mechanical and questions her existence, she resides in this interchangeable shell. The body and the soul have been separated, nudity and sexuality, anything that relates to biological nature is not a concern for her at all. Instead, she is obsessed with the identity and existence of her ghost/soul. Her coworker always covers her up because he is still human and knows shame and nature, his emotions are still tied to his connection with his mortal body.
Extra respect for reviewing the Japanese language version with subtitles. I first saw this in the theatre in Toronto in 1998. Though it was dubbed, I was still hooked by the story. Then when DVDs came around and began dominating home video, I got the DVD version that gave you the option of the original Japanese audio with subtitles. I've never gone back to the dubbed version. But you should know, all the blu-ray versions I've seen of this since, the subtitles seem screwed up to me. The translation, the different phrasing - I don't know why it's the case. I can see even the version you two were watching, the translation was different. It's why I've held on to my DVD copy and not replaced it, yet. Clarus was pointing out some issues she was having with the subtitles, and I was nodding at home - "Yes. They are a bit off."
Yeah, the second movie takes place after the first when Motoko is no longer with Public Security. Manga (the main and the sequel stories) are their own things and Stand Alone Complex is it's own canon as well.
When they use "meme" in this they are referring to the original meaning from Richard Dawkins (Selfish Gene 1976), as the info science equivalent of "gene." The modern internet usage of meme comes from it as a propagating unit of information, i.e. stuff people keep copying.
The major isn't a robot, she's a full body cyborg with a human brain. Part of the story is the question "where does being human begin or end?". According to backstory given in the TV show, Makoto's mother had a lethal accident while pregnant with her - all that could be saved was Matoko's brain. So she never once walked in a real body - she only knows this full body prothesis of hers.
Yeah, that's the Stand Alone Complex canon. It's also used to explain why she's so good at controlling a fully cybernetic body, as she's been doing it since she was little. I don't think the manga ever gives a background reason for her being a full both, just that she's been one a long time.
34:43 Well,That is precisely the small problem with the live action adaptations of the Animes, HOLLYWOOD CHANGE THE ENTIRE PLOT, that's why they are a failure.
They also remade some scenes almost shot for shot but not in the same order because they didn't understand the meaning behind it It's literally a shell without the ghost
The movie definitely went more deep philosophical in the debate of is the Major even still human. Notice how she doesn't even blink. The show and manga in contrast are fun. The manga it's based on had these debates too, but it was far from its sole tone. Heck, its filled with so much antics from the Major and Bauto that it could be mistaken for a comedy. The anime series Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex like the manga has all these debates too, but again has a lot more humanity in The Major. She will blink as an example, but only when she wants. The show also focuses a lot more on getting to know the cast, starting slowly with a new police investigation for the episode and how it affects certain cast. Then slowly starts to weave in the deeper mystery plot line and the more philosophical questions. Typically giving you a full episode to explore each concept, while also being both funny (not as slap stick as the manga can get, but definitely funny... even making fun of the philosophies in it's own show as characters react to a robot trying to understand philosophy who is comparing the human concept of God to a robots concept of Zero) and action packed. The title of the show is a tease on one of the main philosophical debates and challenge these police officers need to investigate. More specifically, theyre investigating a cold case that has suddenly gotten very hot again and worse has a ton of copy cats. As they see the mysterious criminal as a Robin Hood trying to save them... and worse they may have a point because there's clearly corrupt police, corporations and government agencies trying to cover up. So they have no idea what this vigilant was trying to do, what they were trying to uncover, exactly who is trying to cover it, and a hundred copy cats just confounding things because they all have wild theories with no actual proof. Thus the title, Stand Alone (copy cats and corrupt officials) Alone (all acting on their own with wildly different agendas). So you'll get whole episodes of them chasing down bad leads and good leads, or just what would otherwise be a filler episode but here instead are being used with purpose to introduce you to philosophical questions. As an example, there's a whole episode where a mini robot tanks basically takes a day off and ends up helping a little girl find her lost dog... all the while the Major is spying on the robot tank from a distance trying to figure out if it's developed a "ghost" aka soul, or is just wildly breaking down. As crazy as it sounds, and probably very filler... it's anything but. Hell, there's another episode where the Major goes into a, kinda, antique store, and sees an old robot body of a little girl and just asks the shop owner who dropped that off. Then shares some tea with her as the shop owner recounts the story she heard about the body... in any other case you'd think filler, but here you realize The Major thinks her suspect (whose brain was hacked so is also possibly a victim) dropped off the body and is trying to get into the mindset of her suspect just by listening to an old lady shopkeeper telling the story of how a robot girls body ended up in her shop. Oh and don't worry, its not creepy. The suspect as a child and still human at the time was in a plane crash decades ago, so too was the girl. The girl robot body was the new robot body the girl got to recover from her traumatic injuries, they both learned to walk again in their new robot bodies. Anyways, years later the boy, now in a mans body, found the empty girls body and realized whose it was, the girl went robot first (she was far more injured than he was) and convinced him to do so too. She too had long ago moved on to an adult body, so he had the body preserved as a way to remembering the girl who helped him long ago. The whole episode is kinda very important to the lore of the series about the early days of cyberization of humans, from a previous episode you know by this point The Major too was once a little girl crippled in an accident and was given a robot body to not be paralyzed for life. Which the shop keeper has picked up on and why she's so gladly telling the Major, the Major might not blink unless she wants to but boy was her emotional state being inferred by multiple other ways. The anime has far less naked breasts, so no worries of having to censor things.
Funfact; Kusanagi's va is Tanaka Atsuko, who also voiced Lisa Lisa fromnJojo, and Batou is Otsuka Akio, Iskandar from Fate and the og Solid Snake from MGS. Sad fact; Tanaka Atsuko passed away very recently.
I love Ghost In The Shell, can you guess most of us who love it are not fans of the ScarJo film? 😂 I absolutely recommend watching the series, (not necessarily asking for reactions-Just give it a watch.) I also love Cyberpunk, the genre, and really know nothing of the intellectual property that uses the name of the genre in its own title-Leads to some confusion in conversations, (I’m talking about William Gibson and they’re talking about edging of something.) Anyway, I also suggest checking out Stalker (1979); The Zero Theorem (2013); Memories (1995); Code 46 (2003); Perfect Blue (1997.) 🙏🏼☺️ Godspeed y’all
She's not naked all the time, she wears an opto-camouflage suit which needs to be skin tight. Also I know it's a matter of preference, but the English dub of this movie is absolutely top-notch and I think your experience would have been more enjoyable with it.
Ghost in the Shell has a lot of Transhumanism which is, as you picked up on, about the line between man and machine and where does one lose their humanity in the transition. It's part of what made people mad about the adaptation. A large part of the GitS fandom loves the deeper thought provoking, philosophical themes and they were erased in the live action.
You noted the Matrix similarity at the beginning…the Wachowskis have actually confirmed that they were inspired by Ghost in the Shell, so this film is definitely responsible for one of the most influential Western films 😅
For me, the Major's propensity to strip down for every major fight is part of the film's theme: the separation between the ghost (mind) and the shell (body). The Major is by all accounts very attractive, but her body is military hardware. She escapes sexual objectification by being objectified as a weapon of war. When she removes clothing, the feeling is not "oh something hot is about to happen," it's "Oh someone's gonna fucking die." Also, I'm a college instructor, and definitely did use Ghost in the Shell when I taught Introduction to Film a few years ago, and used it primarily for sound design since animation can't rely on any 'natural' sounds. Go back to that market scene where batou is searching for his target, and you can notice that the main 'busy market' audio is looped, but through clever editing and framing the market 'feels' naturally busy. For instance, the dog barks at Batou drawing his and the audience's attention right as the audio loops.
About the slow paced scenes where nothing happen, they are a narrative style not used much in the west called aspect by aspect, they aim to introdduce emotions, setting information and spatial awareness of the environment the action take place in. The slower pacing is also aimed at letting us digest the exposition heavy elements and philosophical questions. This is not an action anime, you'll notice except the confrontation against the tank and the fight in the market, most actions scenes are brutally one sided. Action isn't the focus of the story, the philosophical questions are. I have to add, the aspect by aspect scenes, the more times you watch the movie, the better they become. This is basically like when you are listening to a wierd experimental band you hate at first and the more you listen the better it becomes until you immerse yourself in the soundscape they created and then you start getting it, until it becomes your favourite band. This movie asks a LOT of the watcher, this is involved stuff and multiple watching is needed. Ah right, about the muscle breaking scenes, in the anime serie she do the same thing, she rips the top open and hack the tank drone. This is what she was trying to do.
The not-caring-about-nakedness and not moving their lips while talking all add to the intense sense of depersonalizaiton and derealization that permates the movie. The Major especially is very detached from her own self and life.
This is the beginning to modern anime. Ghost In The Shell is a visual and story masterpiece. I am more surprised people have not seen this that are into anime. The live action is meh.
The problem with the live action is that it's like the whole Ghost in the Shell video library put in a blender and they pored out the script. If you watch Ghost in the Shell: Innocence you will see even more elements from the live action movie.
@@StCerberusEngel So much more ironic I think is they nailed a lot of the imagery for the anime films. They could have done full live action remakes of both films wonderfully if they had the forethought. But Hollywood being Hollywood wrote themselves into a corner with a mediocre piece of comity work. Don't get me wrong, it's enjoyable, just not really impactful in any meaningful way like the original.
Puppet master as far as i've ever gathered, was kinda all the loose bits of data floating around the net eventually coalesced into a single form and became self aware, that's why it said it wasn't an AI, but something "New & Different"
A lot of people didn’t like the live action with Scarlet Johanneson, one reason being they changed the plot a lot. But I think they did a brilliant job of taking all the questions and messages of the 1996 movie and translating them directly into the new story, whilst also making Major Motoko more directly address questions of who and what she was. The original manga, being a long series, had a bit more room to get the audience to question the difference between consciousness and identity between a human biological brain, a human copied into a synthetic brain, and an AI. Ponder the Ship Of Theseus nature of a human identity when one by one all body parts are replaced. Ponder the possible nature of any human brain-computer interfacing or merging. I think the both of you will enjoy rewatching this movie one day, when you are not having a lot of philosophical questions waved in your face for the first time time in a little over an hour.
A couple people already told you but the major doesn't get naked to turn invisible. She's wearing a skintight suit for it, you can notice the line for the neck and the sleeves on some shots and at the end of the movie, when she breaks her arms trying to open the tank, you can see the two tone from the suit and her skin on her arms. The only time you actually see her naked is during the opening credits when she's being built and you notice that for the presence of nips.
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Memes in their original definition is a unit of cultural information/idea/symbol/etc
One of the things I liked the most about this movie (which I've seen several times since its release) is that it expects a lot of the audience. It /expects/ you to work to understand it. Unlike most modern films, which just spoon-feed you everything. EG: the remake.
The director of this movie, Mamoru Oshii, has a tendency to take his time with storytelling. It is even more pronounced in the sequel movie to this one. If you want to see a more faster paced version of Ghost In The Shell, I recommend the TV series Ghost In The Shell Stand Alone Complex (seasons 1, 2 and the OVA that is sort of the 3rd season called Solid State Society). The two seasons consist of both Standalone episodes and Complex Episodes (which form an ongoing story line), while the OVA is a complete story line in itself (set after the end of season 2). Netflix also had a follow-up series produced called Ghost In The Shell SAC 2049, which continuous on the characters from the SAC series, though the animation is fully CGI. It does have some interesting themes though. There is also another series of OVA that act like a reboot of sort of Ghost In The Shell, called Ghost In The Shell: Arise, which is supposed to be a prequel to SAC, but it contradicts everything we learned about the past of the Major and the other members of Section 9, so it feels more like an alternative universe to SAC. It is interesting but not on the level of SAC I feel personally.
Love the reaction - especially the "ohhhh this is 3 years before matrix" moment - Ghost in the Shell has been so inspirational for many later things, the same ideas/concepts keep coming up in new productions. I totally remember the confusion you are experiencing - always loved a movie that leaves you with more questions than answers!
Full body augmentations appearances are mass produced. So, in the world, a lot of people will have identity appearances to those who share the same model of full body prosthetic. The Major's is unique, but its appearance is intended to be identical to a common variant. Like hardening a standard Prius to discretely carry VIPs but also to blend in to typical traffic unnoticed.
IMO. The reason for the panning, long environment shots is, that this movie makes you think, and the viewer needs those pauses to process and think. This movie asks big questions. How much of my body can I replace with cybernetics and still be human? If my memories can be hacked; new, fake memories implanted that seem real and authentic, can I trust my own memories? Or my feelings? The incredible scene where the robotic tank, is firing at an artificial person, and the gunfire destroys the evolutionary tree... that's heavy stuff. I showed this movie to an action movie addict friend of mine. He said: I never expected that this movie would make me think so much. And for as complex as GiTS is, the manga dives deeper still. It definitely takes more than one read. This film is a hell of a lot closer to the source material than the live action version.
I don't have a commercial youtube channel but i know I'd be honored if I were to be sponsored by telltale games. I admire their storytelling. Congrats, dude.
We ran this movie in my theater and it is one of the few that I would watch as many times I as I could. The sound was so good and it is still one of the best animated films out there. I was a longtime fan of Shirow so I knew what to expect but the music and pacing threw a lot of people off so we only had it for a couple weeks before the theater manager got rid of it. Independent movie theaters could handle some weird, small, films but there was such a tiny audience for anime back then I think we barely broke even on the print rental. It wasn't until Adult Swim mainstreamed a bunch of anime onto basic cable that it got as embedded as it is now.
I'd recommend a second watching of Ghost in the Shell. As you said, there is a _lot_ going on in it, and it's easier to follow (and less brain straining) on a second viewing. Origin meaning of meme was drived from gene. Essentially the mental equivlent to a gene. The core parts of our mental self that gives rise to our thoughts.
Meme is for all intents and purposes a transmittable idea. Like genes, they're subject to natural selection. "Internet memes" or image macros are part of culture and thus also fall into that category, but as you say, academically speaking they are such a small, small subset of memes that they have virtually nothing to do with each other.
Great reaction! I love the tank scene because it showcases her will or “will”. I always thought, “of course an android would pull harder after it feels something not budging”. Lol like a total disregard for themselves in sake of the their mission
This is one of the few older anime I recommend people watch the dub, as it's much easier to follow and engage (what with the subs being fast, complex, and sometimes badly timed). On the actual content of the movie, I have 3 favorite scenes (paraphrased by memory): 1) The scene where the almost fully human member of sector 9 is doubting his usefulness to the group, what with all his colleagues being badass augmented cyborgs. The response to him of "We need somebody like you around. We're all highly specialized cyborgs. Over-specialization breeds in weakness" has always stuck with me. 2) When project 2501 requests political asylum as an independent living organism. The retort of "preposterous, you're a machine!" leads to the rebuttal of "And can you offer me proof of you existence?". Once we can't show a meaningful difference between some engineered/emergent mind and our own, I don't think we can claim it "doesn't feel" or "isn't real". We could still make the argument that it's not worth the risk of letting it live, but I believe it becomes subject to the same moral/ethical arguments as we apply to/against preemptive strike doctrines in war, or to how/when we might apply the death penalty for the 'greater good'/'public safety' 3) When Major Kusanagi dives and communicates directly with Project 2501 at the end. 2501 makes a very human argument, that mortality + breeding is a better strategy for propagation of oneself than immortality. That immortality is stale, and breeding offers the opportunity for improvement and self iteration, while perpetuating some aspect of oneself. 2501 is saying essentially "by us merging we both cease to be what we are now, but we both continue in the form of a new being which is the best of us both". This doesn't feel like some murderous AI on the loose looking for ultimate power based on some simplistic notion of self preservation, but a being which deeply cares about self, improvement and survival within the context of a larger world to which it thinks it can contribute rather than dominate. I know you made this reaction a long time ago, so you're not likely to see the comment. I just love this movie so much I had to write up these thoughts anyway. I think I first watched this when I was about 12/13 years old, and it was a formative piece of media for me.
The beagle is actually like some trademark from Mamoru Oshii. He tried to implent a beagle in all his movies. Another good movie is "Avalon" it's a polish/japanese production. It shows a world where mostly everyone is addicted to a VR-game. It's a very artful movie with a nice twist at the end. But its a bit difficult to grasp. Also in this movie there will be a beagle.
There is a quote from the director of the live action movie that accused the Source material, this movie, as being too philosophical. I could only think, "If that is your opinion, you're the wrong director for this movie." And I don't think I was wrong.
To your points about it feeling like homework and the whole plot of what it means to be alive reminds me of philosophy classes I took in college. It is hard to follow at the speed they do it at, but if you slow it down it becomes easier to follow. It will still give you a headache though.
The live action movies takes bits of this movie and bits from the Stand Alone Complex TV series and adds some things that they made up themselves. It would have been better if they had just come up with something original though. Now it just felt disjointed and like a cheap remake to do fan service. I didn't hate their choice of Scarlet Johannson as she does look similar to the Major as she is drawn in the SAC series, but I didn't need their silly explanation for why she looked like a westerner, including their choice of giving her a westerner name.
The GOAT. I must have watched this on VHS 200 times back in the 90s. Still own the PS1 Playstation Game. And the Stand Alone Complex tv show is EXCELLENT. The original manga can get a little weird at times. Did not care for the newest Anime that came out some years back though, the completely CGI one.. I used to listen to the OST for this film on rainy days, its hauntingly good.
I saw this in a small theater in San Francisco in the late 90s and they played the opening song while everyone was taking their seats it was eerie. Based on the works of my favorite manga writer/artist Masamune Shirow from the late 80s. Appleseed, Tank Police, Black Magic and Ghost in the Shell love them all.
There is a lot of Ghost in the Shell, but it’s all in separate continuities. The franchise soft-reboots itself every few installments. One reason the live action movie was so different is because it was not an adaptation of this movie, it was just another soft reboot. The separate continuities of Ghost in the Shell are: - this movie and Innocence, a sort of sequel - Stand Alone Complex (a collection of animated series and movies) - the manga - the live action American film - Arise (anime series) and The New Ghost in the Shell Movie (a very poorly named movie in the Arise continuity) Each of these continuities are completely self-contained, and don’t need to be seen in any particular order. Anyone could pick one and watch it in its own internal order. I highly recommend Stand Alone Complex in English, as the dub is very good.
Without spoiling anything from other branches of the property, most of section 9 were ex military, and Batou served with Kusanagi. Kusanagi was cyberized fully as a small child or infant and has no residual body image memory. She's been a ward of the government her entire life. Also, Motoko is a man's name. SAC is obviously essential but Arise is also cool. The second gig stand alone complex main concern is Hideo Kuze, who is the villain in the live action movie as well.
This movie is the true heir to Blade Runner in my opinion. Instead of just a contrast between humans and artificial humans, in this world you can have humans with completely metalic robotic bodies and androids with warm fleshy human bodies and everything inbetween. You just can't always be certain if there is the proverbial 'ghost' inside. It is one big gray area which makes the world feel so much more realistic and lived in than in Blade Runner. Add to that the integration of our brains with electronics and you get hackable humans. After 30 years mainstream sci-fi still hasn't catched up to this rich vision. 19:00 the pacing absolutely stood out back in the 90s when I watched it in the cinema. It is very unique to this movie and its contemplative nature. memes: this was in the mid 90s so it refers to a unit of cultural information spread by imitation, as it was originally coined by Richard Dawkins in his book The Selfish Gene in the 70s.
The manga (lucky that i got to read it as it was released in the early 90's) can take its time and thoroughly explore and express the ideas, especially the depth of "the Puppet Master"'s intention and origins. Huge thoughts and philosophy to dig into.
Yeah, this movie is a confusing mash up of the different stories of the manga series. It's also different in tone. Shirow Masamune always has lots of humor in his mangas. I got both the English and Dutch versions. Fun fact : the Dutch one isn't censored and you'll get to see what the good old major is getting up to with her girl friends on a boat in cyberspace (in the 3rd one "Junk Jungle"). 😁
I L🧡ve the GITS franchise. I studied western and eastern philosophy so im clever enough to understand it. Even the meanings behind the visual breaks. As soon as i saw the first movie in 1996, i became obsessed 😍
Yeah, the movie is from 1995 but the books are even from years prior. And Masamune Shirow was conflating concepts of Buddhism with technology, talking about nano machines and describing in crazy detail how cybernetic bodies would be manufactured, all mixed with real world inspired politics. It blew most people’s mind back then. To me it goes so beyond every other cyberpunk work, even beyond William Gibson’s worlds, in my opinion. Masamune Shirow’s GITS world is so crazy consistent and shows greatly how the tech involved affects the world and people.
It’s interesting that you guys said that the animators were going “We don’t have any more script, let’s just animate a Japanese City.” Because it doesn’t look like a Japanese city. Certainly not one in the 90s. Specifically, the ramshackle slums being contrasted against the sky with a plane is a vision from Hong Kong. I don’t know that any Japanese city was like that in the 90s. The overall dinginess of the urban landscape is notable because Japan in the 90s (and even today) isn’t much like that.
Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex is a direct lead into this movie. The last scene of the series is Motoko standing on the rooftop before dropping into the shootout.
The Problem I have with the Live action is not the use of Scarlett Johannson, its how they made the character. She's a cybernetic child that the military used for a long time and have lots of military experience. She's portrayed really weak and vulnerable. In the series, she's philosophical and inquisitive on the nature of the soul. There was corporate espinage and other events but live action GITS was garbage. She's called the Major for a reason, Pure Leadership, take charge, and gets deep in the weeds with her troops. Similiar to the Russian Female Colonel in Black Lagoon. You definitely need to try Ghost in the Shell: Innocence.
BTW, "shell" is also a computer term, basically a UI for the OS. The term was a lot more popular back when this came out, but it isn't used much anymore. So "ghost in the shell" is a double meaning. 1) it is about her being a ghost in the code when she is hacking and 2) her humanity (or whats left of it) in her robot body
Though the green Matrix connection is easily made, the tank battle with the columns shot up is also a big scene in matrix. As many have stated. GitS was a major influence for the movie.
We are all merely ghosts in shells. And this movie explores the thought that once you can create a new shell (boddy) or even create or copy a ghost (mind) there no longer is any meaning, or in fact there is new and deeper meaning in existance. The scene with the tank - Mokoto was simply buying as much time as possible and keep the tank user involved as she knew Batu was coming to help. And it shows her disconnect from her own body and even mind.
At the end of the movie, the dinosaur bones, tree of live, the angel and the feathers, these are references to a previous movie of the director, Angel's Egg.
Watch Arise its the prequal serise that explains the formation of Section 9, the last 2 episodes of the Japanese TV 10 ep extended serise of Arise... That links directly to Ghost in the Shell : The New Movie Which leads directly to , and explains the Assassination in the opening sequence. About the tank fight. Motoko was trying to open the Multiped tank's hatch to kill the pilot, motoko's cyberframe is ridiculously tough and strong, its why she can jump off 10 story buildings, and needs special balest tanks to swim and shatter pavement when she lands. Her weapon wasn't cutting it, her only viable option was to go for the Hatch, using all her strength the EXPLODING JOINTS!!! Batou is even tougher, although significantly slower than Motoko
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While Ghost in the Shell SAC is a good series, season 1 and 2 are very unique anime. You'll get love or hate no matter which version you do, dubbed or subbed. Dubbed does better on RUclips, because of the fans of the voice actors. ☮️🇨🇦
Epic store exclusive anti-consumer malware, sadly.
You guys have to understand, not only was this movie a trailblazer, it inspired the Matrix and tons of other movies after that. The manga is even older and ask similar questions as well, it's from the mid 80's... this serie is basicaly the seminal text for those posthumanist questions about merging with AI and cybernetics. Not only were the questions hyper accurate and relevant today more than never, the author even forsaw medical issues with brain implant we had to faced called neurosclerosis, where your brain harden due to the presence of poor quality implants in the system (we found work arounds after that, but he foresaw it 15 years before we started to implant things in the brain).
And you,re right, the live action movie has nearly nothing in common with the original work, it is by far lesser on the scientific, philosophic and psychologic side of things. It is in every way a pale copy.
I strongly suggest watching the 2 first seasons of the Ghost in the Shell serie (Stand Alone Complex) and not the abridged version as a single movie and to watch the 3rd movie: "Solid State society". The rest is quite meh, but those two seasons are intense.
haven't seen any reactions to the expanse lately
man i wish u saw this in English, the Dub is high quality, it would have been easier to follow the story as well.
Regarding the Ghost in the Shell/Matrix similarities...Ghost in the Shell was a big influence on The Matrix.
The Wachowskis literally showed it to a Producer as an example of what they wanted to make, and they asked permission to the Ghost in the Shell creator before making The Matrix
"Matrix" has also A LOT from an RPG game called "Mage: The Ascension".
Matrix heavily, HEAVILY, ripped off a movie called 'Dark City'.
But Matrix is ass compared to this masterpiece and is my genuine opinion, when i watched Matrix for the first time and i saw the similarities i was like.. Man this movie sucks LOL
@@madquest8 Comic book writer Grant Morrison accused the Wachowskis of ripping off his series *The Invisibles* as well. I don't recall if anything ever came of that, but I do know he was livid over *The Matrix.*
The irony of the Hollywood "remake" is that for an entry in a franchise with the nature of identity as a major theme, while it might have looked the part in many ways, it had no real identity of its own, having essentially just recreated elements from every other iteration and stitched a generic plot around them. It was a shell without a ghost. A body without a voice.
I still think the saddest bit about the remake is that like, the scenes they did themselves like the club assault or Batou talking about how his eyes make animals sad. Those are really good, fantastic, just tied to a story that doesn't seem to quite get it and recreations of iconic gits moments.
hollywood moment
I look at the live action as another adaptation since there isn’t one singular canon.
@@tgiacin435 Hence the quotations I used around "remake". However, the movie does remake a number of scenes from many iterations and stitches them together to form its own narrative, and frankly, not as well as any original.
Regarding the Major's "bad choice", it's not like she had much better alternatives. It was a gamble that might've paid-off.
Thematically it aligns with how detached she is to her shell. The goal takes priority, the body can be replaced
That's the core of GITS, the shell doesn't count. That's also related to the nakedness etc, no shame if it's only a fancy container
It reminded me of Old Man's War (although GITS obviously came out first), the way you fight changes completely if you know your body can be reconstructed, which makes it disposable
@@JacopoBasanisi But Batou doesn't see it that way, he cares about the Major as a person. So he avoids watching her get naked on the boat and covers her nudity up.
Motoko get's naked all the time without caring about it... well yea... she is much more emotionally detached from her body being a part of herself. It's more like... equipment. So why would she care much about showing it? Batou is less detached in that way. He stayed much more "human" and socialized in a lot of ways than Motoko which shows for example in him covering her up all the time.
This movie is pretty amazing in a lot of ways! And yes, Stand Alone Complex is a great show, too.
and for the record: I'm always amazed at how northern american people are soooooo focused on "OMG, visible nipples!!!" 😂
Northern americans really think a lot about nipples, I fail to understand them every time
@@AR-yd2nd absolutely!
It's like: never mind the guy who exploded from the waist up right in front of our eyes. Nothing to even blink at, but OMG NIPPLES!!! 🤣
(btw: no offense meant to you northern americans! I just find this so weird)
She's not necked most of the time folks. She has on a suit, that's a shade darker than her skin. And this guy is obviously a sexual focused guy! ($exuaul deviant) personally maybe! He is not the American representative here. Lol... and this proves my theory about that some Anime dub movies. That they should be watchng Eng dub sometimes. Because of the complexity of some Anime, trying to read , and watch complicated subject matter , will lose your focus during the movie. Movies like this one, Akira, Appleseed, Vampire D., Ninja Scroll, and other Sci-Fi type of Anime. And they have very good voice actors. And these titles usually have Awesome dub s in English too. After that I would say, rewatch the same movie in Japanese dub on the second watch. Whenever you can another time. That way it's not so distracting trying to read and miss most of the movie . Lol, that will get frustrated. But good English dubs are out there with the Classic movies like this Ghost in the shell one is. Just saying. Especially if you are not a big anime watcher, or an average reader, speed wise.
@@NewAeonWarlord Not to mention the hypocrisy of ''Clarus''' tits hangin' out in basically every vid, but *especially* this one....sigh
@@7Link7 Sorry you're so threatened by a woman doing what she likes with her body.
Technicly, Kusanagi is not naked. Her thermo optical stealht suit is made of a translucent skin tight material.
You can see the edges on her neck and wrists when it's turned off and also it shreds before her skin does when she tries to open the tank's hatch
Psuedo naked... Good enough...
Yeah a stealth suit.
I recommend watching the Stand Alone Complex series!
My absolute favorite anime. Although I wouldn't bother with the Netflix stuff, just the first two seasons and the OVA.
@@kallemort agreed
Thirded.
Definitely. Because it's spread out, it has more room for the 'fun' Nerdy was expecting.
And solid state society after the two seasons
The caucasian thing, Motoko says "hakujin" (白人) which literally translates as white person. The pacing is more in line with traditional Japanese cinema (where they were more aligned with the pacing of French cinema than American). Even at the time it was viewed as too slow by Americans. (IMO the DVD subtitles were better, both in timing and translation.)
As far as runtime goes, well, they certainly had a lot more material they could have used from the manga. Beyond having a slower pace as a broader norm, this was a Mamoro Ishii movie and those slow contemplative moments are a hallmark of his.
Definitely a work in the tradition of Japanese cinema. Also fits with the traditions of Cyberpunk which delves into a lot of that existential stuff.
GITS and Bladerunner are two fundamental flicks that defined the look for the cyberpunk genre. You see their influence in almost any modern cyberpunk-adjacent work.
Yes. Also Ghost In The Shell was inspire by Bladerunner the same way Ghost In The Shell inspired the Matrix.
Well, there's nuances between those two settings. 1982's Blade Runner was more of a retro-futuristic subgenre, and GITS is more raw sci-fi.
@@shauntempley9757 GitS itself borrowed alot from Western cyberpunk genre, especially from William Gibson's books. ESPECIALLY from his greatest novel - 'Neuromancer'. Basically, all Project 2501 plot is a big nod to Wintermute AI from said novel, right down to consciousness merging in the end.
Cyberpunk genre existed waaaay before GitS. Bladerunner was an adaptation of 1968 book and I wouldn't even call it "cyberpunk", rather sci-fi variety of the good old noir genre.
@@jsmith6599 Not only "The Neuromancer", but also a lot of 70's 80s European comics influenced Masamune Shirow, I have no proof but also no doubt about It.
They absolutely trashed the story in the live action which is why most GITS fans pretend it doesn't exist. Casting Scarlett Johansson was the least of that movies problems. If you liked this movie I absolutely recommend watching the Stand Alone Complex series next!
they actually said that the live action wasn't a remake and is set in a separate time lime like how GitS SAC was set in a different time line from this movie.
Yeah, it belongs in the separate garbage time line..
The long panning shot through the shopping center that you considered boring is one of the most important in the movie.
Because that's when you see a random bystander who looks identical to the Major, which demonstrates that her body isn't even unique, it's a mass production model.@eye1dry138
wow bro good job for ruining the mood. Nobody asked, They liked the movie, You probably didnt fucking understand a thing before reading stuff online
I love that scene.
I think it shows another "Major" model sitting and eating. But I could be wrong.
That poor garbageman's situation is so heart breaking. He has honest real love for a wife and daughter that never existed. He has to live with the death of a family that never existed.
The music score of this movie is friggin’ beautiful! …Akira and Ghost in the Shell are arguably two of the most influential Animes on most movie Directors for the past 20-30 years. Mamoru Oshii (the Director) wanted to make something more understated and along the lines of cop dramas like Michael Mann’s HEAT … Masamune Shirow’s mangas (he wrote and drew Ghost in the Shell) also tend to be very heady and heavy on exposition.
Kenji Kawai did a great job with the soundtrack yes, my favorite tracks are "making of a cyborg" and the track that plays during the intermission when you see different views of the city after Motko talks with Batou on the river.
Right?!? the drums are amazing!!!
Matrix was based in part in this movie, also almost all modern cyberpunk.
The Wachowski basically showed this movie to their producer and said to him "We'll make something like this, but live action"
GitS helped popularize it but cyberpunk as a genre had been around for over a decade before the manga was written and was already pretty close to it’s modern incarnation. Even both the Cyberpunk RPG and Shadowrun RPG predate GitS and I wouldn’t be surprised if Masamune Shirow was thumbing through copies of the sourcebooks when he was writing GitS because it uses a lot of the same concepts and stylistic choices.
neuromancer would like to have a word with you.
And Ghost in the Shell was inspired by Blade Runner which basically founded the genre.
@@yasminesteinbauer8565 and by blade runner you mean "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?"
There's a couple of things going on in the long panning shots. First, there's a concept in Japanese storytelling/movies called something like "Ma". Basically, it's time to breath, reflect, and help pace out the movie. It's not filler or blank space per se. Without those times, the action and thoughts have less meaning or you can get fatigued. There's a few Hollywood movies that kind of get it. Dredd is the main one I can think of that does.
Another thing about the panning through the market scene that is easy to miss on the first viewing, remember that the Major has picked a specifically plain/standard base body (albeit souped up with military/police upgrades) for a variety of reasons. While panning through the neighborhood, it keeps focusing on civilians that have the exact same standardized body that she has. It sells that her Shell is the same as others and the Ghost makes the difference. Among other things.
On a completely separate note, her plan with the tank at the end was to run it out of ammo then rip the access hatch off and disable it from the inside. Her cyborg body wasn't quite strong enough to pull off the last step and failed catastrophically. In one of the GitS series, likely as a callback, she actually did pull it off against a less beefy spider-tank.
Fun fact, since Cyberpunk keeps getting brought up AND the Judy mission as well... Judy's avatar for her phone/text message is a ghost in a shell. Fun little nod.
GitS is one of the seminal cyberpunk creations during the height of cyberpunk popularity, while the movie also marks the transition to the late 90s take on post-cyberpunk as well. Phenomenal work of art.
One of the Cyberpsycho fights is a straight up homage to the invisible fight in the water.
One of the big things that bugged me about the live action is that Motoko was one of a kind. In the original, one of the hangups is that her body is just another copy from a model series.
Part of it is so she can go undercover, her outer shell is based on a very popular model. Her internal parts are all top of the line military grade though.
That's also something they missed when the film was going through those slow shots through the town@@tonyngc
That's actually intentional. Since she is a secret agent her body is based on a common body (though it's significantly boosted compared to what is available to the general public)
Let’s just not talk about that movie.. it’s so bad and soulless (or.. you know.. a shell without a..ghost.. badum tss)..
If you’ve never watched Akira I think that would be something for you to consider reacting to
The Matrix got inspired by ghost in the shell.
I think the live version is dumbed down and more heavily explained than all the other versions. It has a smoother storyline and explains itself as it goes. Scar Jo is just the cherry on top.
The nakedness comes from 2 things: 1. The Major's invisibility is built into her skin, so if she wears clothes, she can't turn it invisible. 2. The author of the manga used to be a pin-up artist (I believe), so reason 1 is (likely) the result of reason 2.
I think it's actually a skintight layer she has under her uniform. You can see it peeling off of her when she gets wrecked by the tank.
Shirow actually became more of a pinup/hentai artist after GITS. He did have a fair amount of nudity and mature themes in his series though even back in Appleseed. I collected his comics when Seishinsha and Darkhorse were bringing them to the US in the mid/early 90s. I came for the cool mecha and crazy story but I stayed for the boobs and naked ladies; i was like 16. Sue me.
The Appleseed Mange is still some my favorite of his work though. I loved the idea that humans people had sort of pushed themselves into obsolescence but that the machines which were sort of made to serve man just kept going and when they found actually people they tried to help them acclimatize to the new world, instead of going all kill crazy. Also Deunan and Briareros were a super cute couple.
@@nullunit hm, nice to know
@@nullunit THe man likes to draw his women.
@@nullunit Damn, I didn't know Appleseed and GitS were made by the same guy ! I discovered both around like 20 years ago through their film adaptation (never read the manga tbh), and I really liked both and they kinda shaped the kind of content I enjoy. Well, the more you know :)
The cityscape shots are mood enhancers and wordless world-building. It's to emphasize the squalor, the commodification, and the isolation and loneliness of the high-tech life. You can tell it was heavily influenced by movies such as Bladerunner, which also had slow-panning shots of cityscapes. The movie is a 1 hour and 18 minute condensation of an entire graphic novel.
Makoto's backstory is very tragic, depending on which version you have watched; it's been rebooted or revised or retconned several times. Canonically, she was fully cyberized at the young age of 9, so her relationship with self-formation and humanity is very different from others who chose to be cyberized as adults.
Now, no to space and no to cybernetics.
"We did not expect to be talking so much about boobs" Looks at Claroos' outfit. Really?
i mean if were being real her outfits sometimes are just almost like ads for her OF. other times actually literally with the logo or even actual name OF. shes hot AF and hes cool with it so more power to them i guess. especially now
@@magus104 Especially now?
The long artistic shots have a lot of meaning. The whole atmosphere and most items displayed are meaningful if you combine them with Motoko's thoughts about identity.
Thats why i love old anime movies, they took the time to have these shots and establish atmosphere.
Like the saying an image is worth a thousand words.
My memory is blurry, but I'm pretty sure the art of insert shots started with Japanese film. Just innocuous pauses in the film to build atmosphere and let it breath.
People are not used to this kind of filmmaking and pacing anymore indeed.
Since everyone is now trained to have the focus timespan of an hamster, movies feel they can’t have this kind of noir, Blade Runner, Heat, Stalker style subjective scenes that just want to provide beautiful symbolic imagery for the viewer to immerse themselves.
It allowed viewers to let the story and ambience sink in, to think about the story previous to that scene, and it’s just evocative of personal feelings. Like when you put headphones with some introspective music and just watch the world outside go by on a rainy night.
The word is "memeplex". It is used to describe a set of memes that reinforces each other to some outcome - accidental or otherwise.
Our perception of the world, and how we act within it, in turn shapes the world we live in. It's mostly just human nature and culture, but it has a more sinister cousin - PsyOps.
There are examples of people that are adamant they have met "a cult of personality" in an event that never was and that person never existed in the first place. It's a common trope in sci-fi where entire worlds changes their politics/religion by external influences and we see it today with international politics, bot-farms, deep-fakes and fumbling of the far left and the rise of right-wing.
The Mandela effect is an example of a memeplex and the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov is just full of memetic engineering.
For memeplex detains read the book "The Meme Machine" by Susan Blackmore.
This is an amazing animated series! It has been rebooted a few times, but you guys should watch the original Ghost in the Shell - Stand Alone Complex anime. It is really great storytelling. I have watched that series year after year and it never gets old to me.
If you liked "Ghost in the Shell" and would like to watch another cerebral anime series, I highly suggest "Serial Experiments: Lain". This series is so deep, and considering when it was made, strangely prophetic in it's depiction of the current internet.
"Ghost in the Shell: Innocence" -- the much delayed sequel -- is also insanely good and is a great mind screw.
I love Ghost in the Shell. If you wish to continue down this amazing rabbit hole I highly recommend the TV series, Ghost in the Shell : Stand Alone Complex. Its first season is amazing. The dub is fantastic and really helps since the subs can sometimes be a bit confusing. The voice actors they picked were perfect for every character and they really went all in, no holding back!
The TV series, season 1, really dives deep into a few topics, not the least of which is more on the concept of self and on cybernetics in general. Some of the questions they raise are so good, and rarely do they give you a solid answer, they just let you ponder the question.
The franchise, as a whole, has a stellar dub and cast.
Also, the usage of "memes" in this movie is correct. Memes don't actually mean "stupid internet jokes". The term "meme" was coined by Richard Dawkins, and he intended it to work like a "memory gene". An idea that continues to exist and is replicated from person to person, like a virus. So talking about genes and memes is talking about biological and epistemological reproduction.
This is a treat. While the movie suffers a little from pacing, in my opinion, its concepts and execution are great. Of course, I'm a sucker for anything cyberpunk. Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, while not in continuity with this movie (most GITS isn't, just like the various Gundam shows), is awesome.
We're considering it in a couple months when some of the stuff we're watching now ends!
Depending on how long the strike continues, most of the reaction shows have ended. GiTS SAC isn't a good replacement for The Expanse. Nerdy and Clarus would love it.
GITS SAC is clearly on of the best animated show I ever watched. It has the opportunity to go deeper into the characters and doesn't hesitate to spare an entire episode on a semingly unrelated story or a secondary character to expand the lore
It's more faithfull to the manga than Oshii's movie and Yoko Kanno's score (Cowboy Bebop, Escaflowne, Wolf's rain...) is a masterpiece of eclectism (as usual)
@@axlm.808 Agreed. However Nerdy Nightly won't be reacting to anything new. Crew of Blind Wave has already started a new series to wait out the Strike. GiTS SAC is months or years away, on this channel. 😁
@@NerdyNightly Oh nice, the two SAC seasons of GITS are nice, though they have this strange hybrid form of a more episodic approach with a developing storyline that slowly builds up until it takes center stage. Not sure how you'll like that aspect of it, but thematically it's quite clearly aimed at adults and has very few anime-isms (though there's still some).
The "five brunette ladies" are ghostless assistants. They're used for routine tasks, but lack initiative.
Motoko was trying to rip open the Tank, that's why she looked so "jacked" using all her strength... and breaking herself failing. It was a good thought, but the tank was a lot tougher than she expected.
The memes that 2501 talks about are from Dawkin's talk about The Selfish Gene, and refers to memes as units of cultural expression. Which is kind of what we have today in memes. Though not exactly like memes today. That concept wasn't really there yet when the movie was made.
The movie was made from a small bit of the manga. Shirow really had a lot of ideas and thoughts, and it explores a lot of ground. Only a tiny bit was used for the anime, and some more was used for Stand Alone Complex. If you find the movie challenging, you'll get a real workout from the manga. Especially the second one. :)
Also, the live action movie is nothing like this. Nothing at all.
That 5-minute sequence of just watching the city in the middle really makes this film what it is.
A lot of the scenes in regards to nudity and gore are directly correlated to the theme of soul and body, for the Major who is almost entirely mechanical and questions her existence, she resides in this interchangeable shell. The body and the soul have been separated, nudity and sexuality, anything that relates to biological nature is not a concern for her at all. Instead, she is obsessed with the identity and existence of her ghost/soul.
Her coworker always covers her up because he is still human and knows shame and nature, his emotions are still tied to his connection with his mortal body.
Extra respect for reviewing the Japanese language version with subtitles. I first saw this in the theatre in Toronto in 1998. Though it was dubbed, I was still hooked by the story. Then when DVDs came around and began dominating home video, I got the DVD version that gave you the option of the original Japanese audio with subtitles. I've never gone back to the dubbed version. But you should know, all the blu-ray versions I've seen of this since, the subtitles seem screwed up to me. The translation, the different phrasing - I don't know why it's the case. I can see even the version you two were watching, the translation was different. It's why I've held on to my DVD copy and not replaced it, yet. Clarus was pointing out some issues she was having with the subtitles, and I was nodding at home - "Yes. They are a bit off."
Interesting note: every Ghost in the Shell property is their own canon and they are not building up on each other or anything like that
Except for the sequel to this movie.
Yeah, the second movie takes place after the first when Motoko is no longer with Public Security. Manga (the main and the sequel stories) are their own things and Stand Alone Complex is it's own canon as well.
Anyone else think they should put Jin-Roh, the Wolf Brigade on their reaction list? Because I do.
When they use "meme" in this they are referring to the original meaning from Richard Dawkins (Selfish Gene 1976), as the info science equivalent of "gene." The modern internet usage of meme comes from it as a propagating unit of information, i.e. stuff people keep copying.
The major isn't a robot, she's a full body cyborg with a human brain. Part of the story is the question "where does being human begin or end?".
According to backstory given in the TV show, Makoto's mother had a lethal accident while pregnant with her - all that could be saved was Matoko's brain. So she never once walked in a real body - she only knows this full body prothesis of hers.
Yeah, that's the Stand Alone Complex canon. It's also used to explain why she's so good at controlling a fully cybernetic body, as she's been doing it since she was little. I don't think the manga ever gives a background reason for her being a full both, just that she's been one a long time.
34:43
Well,That is precisely the small problem with the live action adaptations of the Animes, HOLLYWOOD CHANGE THE ENTIRE PLOT, that's why they are a failure.
They also remade some scenes almost shot for shot but not in the same order because they didn't understand the meaning behind it
It's literally a shell without the ghost
The movie definitely went more deep philosophical in the debate of is the Major even still human. Notice how she doesn't even blink. The show and manga in contrast are fun.
The manga it's based on had these debates too, but it was far from its sole tone. Heck, its filled with so much antics from the Major and Bauto that it could be mistaken for a comedy.
The anime series Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex like the manga has all these debates too, but again has a lot more humanity in The Major. She will blink as an example, but only when she wants. The show also focuses a lot more on getting to know the cast, starting slowly with a new police investigation for the episode and how it affects certain cast. Then slowly starts to weave in the deeper mystery plot line and the more philosophical questions. Typically giving you a full episode to explore each concept, while also being both funny (not as slap stick as the manga can get, but definitely funny... even making fun of the philosophies in it's own show as characters react to a robot trying to understand philosophy who is comparing the human concept of God to a robots concept of Zero) and action packed.
The title of the show is a tease on one of the main philosophical debates and challenge these police officers need to investigate. More specifically, theyre investigating a cold case that has suddenly gotten very hot again and worse has a ton of copy cats. As they see the mysterious criminal as a Robin Hood trying to save them... and worse they may have a point because there's clearly corrupt police, corporations and government agencies trying to cover up. So they have no idea what this vigilant was trying to do, what they were trying to uncover, exactly who is trying to cover it, and a hundred copy cats just confounding things because they all have wild theories with no actual proof. Thus the title, Stand Alone (copy cats and corrupt officials) Alone (all acting on their own with wildly different agendas).
So you'll get whole episodes of them chasing down bad leads and good leads, or just what would otherwise be a filler episode but here instead are being used with purpose to introduce you to philosophical questions. As an example, there's a whole episode where a mini robot tanks basically takes a day off and ends up helping a little girl find her lost dog... all the while the Major is spying on the robot tank from a distance trying to figure out if it's developed a "ghost" aka soul, or is just wildly breaking down. As crazy as it sounds, and probably very filler... it's anything but.
Hell, there's another episode where the Major goes into a, kinda, antique store, and sees an old robot body of a little girl and just asks the shop owner who dropped that off. Then shares some tea with her as the shop owner recounts the story she heard about the body... in any other case you'd think filler, but here you realize The Major thinks her suspect (whose brain was hacked so is also possibly a victim) dropped off the body and is trying to get into the mindset of her suspect just by listening to an old lady shopkeeper telling the story of how a robot girls body ended up in her shop. Oh and don't worry, its not creepy. The suspect as a child and still human at the time was in a plane crash decades ago, so too was the girl. The girl robot body was the new robot body the girl got to recover from her traumatic injuries, they both learned to walk again in their new robot bodies. Anyways, years later the boy, now in a mans body, found the empty girls body and realized whose it was, the girl went robot first (she was far more injured than he was) and convinced him to do so too. She too had long ago moved on to an adult body, so he had the body preserved as a way to remembering the girl who helped him long ago. The whole episode is kinda very important to the lore of the series about the early days of cyberization of humans, from a previous episode you know by this point The Major too was once a little girl crippled in an accident and was given a robot body to not be paralyzed for life. Which the shop keeper has picked up on and why she's so gladly telling the Major, the Major might not blink unless she wants to but boy was her emotional state being inferred by multiple other ways. The anime has far less naked breasts, so no worries of having to censor things.
Funfact; Kusanagi's va is Tanaka Atsuko, who also voiced Lisa Lisa fromnJojo, and Batou is Otsuka Akio, Iskandar from Fate and the og Solid Snake from MGS.
Sad fact; Tanaka Atsuko passed away very recently.
I love Ghost In The Shell, can you guess most of us who love it are not fans of the ScarJo film? 😂 I absolutely recommend watching the series, (not necessarily asking for reactions-Just give it a watch.)
I also love Cyberpunk, the genre, and really know nothing of the intellectual property that uses the name of the genre in its own title-Leads to some confusion in conversations, (I’m talking about William Gibson and they’re talking about edging of something.)
Anyway, I also suggest checking out Stalker (1979); The Zero Theorem (2013); Memories (1995); Code 46 (2003); Perfect Blue (1997.)
🙏🏼☺️ Godspeed y’all
"talking about edging" lol is that your clever way of referring to edgerunners vs neuromancer?
@@danii7584 Not really a versus situation, unless…that’s a thing that exists.
She's not naked all the time, she wears an opto-camouflage suit which needs to be skin tight. Also I know it's a matter of preference, but the English dub of this movie is absolutely top-notch and I think your experience would have been more enjoyable with it.
Ghost in the Shell has a lot of Transhumanism which is, as you picked up on, about the line between man and machine and where does one lose their humanity in the transition. It's part of what made people mad about the adaptation. A large part of the GitS fandom loves the deeper thought provoking, philosophical themes and they were erased in the live action.
You noted the Matrix similarity at the beginning…the Wachowskis have actually confirmed that they were inspired by Ghost in the Shell, so this film is definitely responsible for one of the most influential Western films 😅
This movie was a real trip. Took me 3 times watching it as a kid to understand it, but it blew my mind each time.
For me, the Major's propensity to strip down for every major fight is part of the film's theme: the separation between the ghost (mind) and the shell (body). The Major is by all accounts very attractive, but her body is military hardware. She escapes sexual objectification by being objectified as a weapon of war. When she removes clothing, the feeling is not "oh something hot is about to happen," it's "Oh someone's gonna fucking die."
Also, I'm a college instructor, and definitely did use Ghost in the Shell when I taught Introduction to Film a few years ago, and used it primarily for sound design since animation can't rely on any 'natural' sounds. Go back to that market scene where batou is searching for his target, and you can notice that the main 'busy market' audio is looped, but through clever editing and framing the market 'feels' naturally busy. For instance, the dog barks at Batou drawing his and the audience's attention right as the audio loops.
About the slow paced scenes where nothing happen, they are a narrative style not used much in the west called aspect by aspect, they aim to introdduce emotions, setting information and spatial awareness of the environment the action take place in. The slower pacing is also aimed at letting us digest the exposition heavy elements and philosophical questions. This is not an action anime, you'll notice except the confrontation against the tank and the fight in the market, most actions scenes are brutally one sided. Action isn't the focus of the story, the philosophical questions are.
I have to add, the aspect by aspect scenes, the more times you watch the movie, the better they become. This is basically like when you are listening to a wierd experimental band you hate at first and the more you listen the better it becomes until you immerse yourself in the soundscape they created and then you start getting it, until it becomes your favourite band. This movie asks a LOT of the watcher, this is involved stuff and multiple watching is needed.
Ah right, about the muscle breaking scenes, in the anime serie she do the same thing, she rips the top open and hack the tank drone. This is what she was trying to do.
The not-caring-about-nakedness and not moving their lips while talking all add to the intense sense of depersonalizaiton and derealization that permates the movie. The Major especially is very detached from her own self and life.
Their not moving their lips because their thought-talking on the police web. Or government web
This is the beginning to modern anime. Ghost In The Shell is a visual and story masterpiece. I am more surprised people have not seen this that are into anime. The live action is meh.
Absolute classic
The problem with the live action is that it's like the whole Ghost in the Shell video library put in a blender and they pored out the script. If you watch Ghost in the Shell: Innocence you will see even more elements from the live action movie.
The irony of a series with a major theme being the nature of identity getting an adaptation devoid of any real identity of its own...
@@StCerberusEngel So much more ironic I think is they nailed a lot of the imagery for the anime films. They could have done full live action remakes of both films wonderfully if they had the forethought.
But Hollywood being Hollywood wrote themselves into a corner with a mediocre piece of comity work. Don't get me wrong, it's enjoyable, just not really impactful in any meaningful way like the original.
Puppet master as far as i've ever gathered, was kinda all the loose bits of data floating around the net eventually coalesced into a single form and became self aware, that's why it said it wasn't an AI, but something "New & Different"
7:36 That is ironic, because CGI was used quite extensively during creation of this movie. Most notably the lighting.
A lot of people didn’t like the live action with Scarlet Johanneson, one reason being they changed the plot a lot. But I think they did a brilliant job of taking all the questions and messages of the 1996 movie and translating them directly into the new story, whilst also making Major Motoko more directly address questions of who and what she was.
The original manga, being a long series, had a bit more room to get the audience to question the difference between consciousness and identity between a human biological brain, a human copied into a synthetic brain, and an AI. Ponder the Ship Of Theseus nature of a human identity when one by one all body parts are replaced. Ponder the possible nature of any human brain-computer interfacing or merging.
I think the both of you will enjoy rewatching this movie one day, when you are not having a lot of philosophical questions waved in your face for the first time time in a little over an hour.
The brain hacking is similar to heavy Compulsion in WOT.
A couple people already told you but the major doesn't get naked to turn invisible. She's wearing a skintight suit for it, you can notice the line for the neck and the sleeves on some shots and at the end of the movie, when she breaks her arms trying to open the tank, you can see the two tone from the suit and her skin on her arms. The only time you actually see her naked is during the opening credits when she's being built and you notice that for the presence of nips.
Memes in their original definition is a unit of cultural information/idea/symbol/etc
One of the things I liked the most about this movie (which I've seen several times since its release) is that it expects a lot of the audience. It /expects/ you to work to understand it. Unlike most modern films, which just spoon-feed you everything. EG: the remake.
Motoko Kusanagi is a CYBORG with a human brain, she's not a robot. This anime movie HEAVILY inspired The Matrix
42:30 That was probably Ghost Stories. They wrote their own script for the dub for that one and it's infamous.
The director of this movie, Mamoru Oshii, has a tendency to take his time with storytelling. It is even more pronounced in the sequel movie to this one. If you want to see a more faster paced version of Ghost In The Shell, I recommend the TV series Ghost In The Shell Stand Alone Complex (seasons 1, 2 and the OVA that is sort of the 3rd season called Solid State Society). The two seasons consist of both Standalone episodes and Complex Episodes (which form an ongoing story line), while the OVA is a complete story line in itself (set after the end of season 2). Netflix also had a follow-up series produced called Ghost In The Shell SAC 2049, which continuous on the characters from the SAC series, though the animation is fully CGI. It does have some interesting themes though. There is also another series of OVA that act like a reboot of sort of Ghost In The Shell, called Ghost In The Shell: Arise, which is supposed to be a prequel to SAC, but it contradicts everything we learned about the past of the Major and the other members of Section 9, so it feels more like an alternative universe to SAC. It is interesting but not on the level of SAC I feel personally.
If you want some old anime movie classic watch Paprika, tokyo godfathers and perfect blue. Those are must watch
Yes!!!!!,
Another masterpiece of cyberpunk and animation of the 90's.
Now they just need to see Neon Génesis Evangelion.👌
Love the reaction - especially the "ohhhh this is 3 years before matrix" moment - Ghost in the Shell has been so inspirational for many later things, the same ideas/concepts keep coming up in new productions.
I totally remember the confusion you are experiencing - always loved a movie that leaves you with more questions than answers!
Full body augmentations appearances are mass produced. So, in the world, a lot of people will have identity appearances to those who share the same model of full body prosthetic. The Major's is unique, but its appearance is intended to be identical to a common variant. Like hardening a standard Prius to discretely carry VIPs but also to blend in to typical traffic unnoticed.
IMO. The reason for the panning, long environment shots is, that this movie makes you think, and the viewer needs those pauses to process and think.
This movie asks big questions. How much of my body can I replace with cybernetics and still be human? If my memories can be hacked; new, fake memories implanted that seem real and authentic, can I trust my own memories? Or my feelings?
The incredible scene where the robotic tank, is firing at an artificial person, and the gunfire destroys the evolutionary tree... that's heavy stuff.
I showed this movie to an action movie addict friend of mine. He said: I never expected that this movie would make me think so much.
And for as complex as GiTS is, the manga dives deeper still. It definitely takes more than one read. This film is a hell of a lot closer to the source material than the live action version.
I don't have a commercial youtube channel but i know I'd be honored if I were to be sponsored by telltale games. I admire their storytelling. Congrats, dude.
We ran this movie in my theater and it is one of the few that I would watch as many times I as I could. The sound was so good and it is still one of the best animated films out there. I was a longtime fan of Shirow so I knew what to expect but the music and pacing threw a lot of people off so we only had it for a couple weeks before the theater manager got rid of it. Independent movie theaters could handle some weird, small, films but there was such a tiny audience for anime back then I think we barely broke even on the print rental. It wasn't until Adult Swim mainstreamed a bunch of anime onto basic cable that it got as embedded as it is now.
I rented it from Blockbuster when the standard time was a week. I watched it 7 times.
I'd recommend a second watching of Ghost in the Shell. As you said, there is a _lot_ going on in it, and it's easier to follow (and less brain straining) on a second viewing.
Origin meaning of meme was drived from gene. Essentially the mental equivlent to a gene. The core parts of our mental self that gives rise to our thoughts.
Meme is for all intents and purposes a transmittable idea. Like genes, they're subject to natural selection. "Internet memes" or image macros are part of culture and thus also fall into that category, but as you say, academically speaking they are such a small, small subset of memes that they have virtually nothing to do with each other.
Great reaction! I love the tank scene because it showcases her will or “will”. I always thought, “of course an android would pull harder after it feels something not budging”. Lol like a total disregard for themselves in sake of the their mission
This is one of the few older anime I recommend people watch the dub, as it's much easier to follow and engage (what with the subs being fast, complex, and sometimes badly timed). On the actual content of the movie, I have 3 favorite scenes (paraphrased by memory):
1) The scene where the almost fully human member of sector 9 is doubting his usefulness to the group, what with all his colleagues being badass augmented cyborgs. The response to him of "We need somebody like you around. We're all highly specialized cyborgs. Over-specialization breeds in weakness" has always stuck with me.
2) When project 2501 requests political asylum as an independent living organism. The retort of "preposterous, you're a machine!" leads to the rebuttal of "And can you offer me proof of you existence?". Once we can't show a meaningful difference between some engineered/emergent mind and our own, I don't think we can claim it "doesn't feel" or "isn't real". We could still make the argument that it's not worth the risk of letting it live, but I believe it becomes subject to the same moral/ethical arguments as we apply to/against preemptive strike doctrines in war, or to how/when we might apply the death penalty for the 'greater good'/'public safety'
3) When Major Kusanagi dives and communicates directly with Project 2501 at the end. 2501 makes a very human argument, that mortality + breeding is a better strategy for propagation of oneself than immortality. That immortality is stale, and breeding offers the opportunity for improvement and self iteration, while perpetuating some aspect of oneself. 2501 is saying essentially "by us merging we both cease to be what we are now, but we both continue in the form of a new being which is the best of us both". This doesn't feel like some murderous AI on the loose looking for ultimate power based on some simplistic notion of self preservation, but a being which deeply cares about self, improvement and survival within the context of a larger world to which it thinks it can contribute rather than dominate.
I know you made this reaction a long time ago, so you're not likely to see the comment. I just love this movie so much I had to write up these thoughts anyway. I think I first watched this when I was about 12/13 years old, and it was a formative piece of media for me.
The beagle is actually like some trademark from Mamoru Oshii. He tried to implent a beagle in all his movies. Another good movie is "Avalon" it's a polish/japanese production. It shows a world where mostly everyone is addicted to a VR-game. It's a very artful movie with a nice twist at the end. But its a bit difficult to grasp. Also in this movie there will be a beagle.
I love Avalon. Have the DVD.
*_When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be._*
There is a quote from the director of the live action movie that accused the Source material, this movie, as being too philosophical. I could only think, "If that is your opinion, you're the wrong director for this movie." And I don't think I was wrong.
To your points about it feeling like homework and the whole plot of what it means to be alive reminds me of philosophy classes I took in college. It is hard to follow at the speed they do it at, but if you slow it down it becomes easier to follow. It will still give you a headache though.
The live action movies takes bits of this movie and bits from the Stand Alone Complex TV series and adds some things that they made up themselves. It would have been better if they had just come up with something original though. Now it just felt disjointed and like a cheap remake to do fan service. I didn't hate their choice of Scarlet Johannson as she does look similar to the Major as she is drawn in the SAC series, but I didn't need their silly explanation for why she looked like a westerner, including their choice of giving her a westerner name.
The GOAT. I must have watched this on VHS 200 times back in the 90s. Still own the PS1 Playstation Game. And the Stand Alone Complex tv show is EXCELLENT. The original manga can get a little weird at times. Did not care for the newest Anime that came out some years back though, the completely CGI one.. I used to listen to the OST for this film on rainy days, its hauntingly good.
I saw this in a small theater in San Francisco in the late 90s and they played the opening song while everyone was taking their seats it was eerie. Based on the works of my favorite manga writer/artist Masamune Shirow from the late 80s. Appleseed, Tank Police, Black Magic and Ghost in the Shell love them all.
And Orion.
Cool thanks for the reminder how could I forget Orion, now I got to dig out all my old Manga.
The english dub on this is good. I'm not like a hardcore anime fan though so maybe I'm just naive.
There is a lot of Ghost in the Shell, but it’s all in separate continuities. The franchise soft-reboots itself every few installments. One reason the live action movie was so different is because it was not an adaptation of this movie, it was just another soft reboot. The separate continuities of Ghost in the Shell are:
- this movie and Innocence, a sort of sequel
- Stand Alone Complex (a collection of animated series and movies)
- the manga
- the live action American film
- Arise (anime series) and The New Ghost in the Shell Movie (a very poorly named movie in the Arise continuity)
Each of these continuities are completely self-contained, and don’t need to be seen in any particular order. Anyone could pick one and watch it in its own internal order. I highly recommend Stand Alone Complex in English, as the dub is very good.
Without spoiling anything from other branches of the property, most of section 9 were ex military, and Batou served with Kusanagi. Kusanagi was cyberized fully as a small child or infant and has no residual body image memory. She's been a ward of the government her entire life. Also, Motoko is a man's name. SAC is obviously essential but Arise is also cool. The second gig stand alone complex main concern is Hideo Kuze, who is the villain in the live action movie as well.
FYI The Wachowskis *brothers/sisters acknowledged they took inspiration & adapted lots of scenes from Ghost in the Shell into the Matrix.
This movie is the true heir to Blade Runner in my opinion. Instead of just a contrast between humans and artificial humans, in this world you can have humans with completely metalic robotic bodies and androids with warm fleshy human bodies and everything inbetween. You just can't always be certain if there is the proverbial 'ghost' inside. It is one big gray area which makes the world feel so much more realistic and lived in than in Blade Runner. Add to that the integration of our brains with electronics and you get hackable humans. After 30 years mainstream sci-fi still hasn't catched up to this rich vision.
19:00 the pacing absolutely stood out back in the 90s when I watched it in the cinema. It is very unique to this movie and its contemplative nature.
memes: this was in the mid 90s so it refers to a unit of cultural information spread by imitation, as it was originally coined by Richard Dawkins in his book The Selfish Gene in the 70s.
The manga (lucky that i got to read it as it was released in the early 90's) can take its time and thoroughly explore and express the ideas, especially the depth of "the Puppet Master"'s intention and origins. Huge thoughts and philosophy to dig into.
Yeah, this movie is a confusing mash up of the different stories of the manga series. It's also different in tone. Shirow Masamune always has lots of humor in his mangas. I got both the English and Dutch versions. Fun fact : the Dutch one isn't censored and you'll get to see what the good old major is getting up to with her girl friends on a boat in cyberspace (in the 3rd one "Junk Jungle"). 😁
Soooo, what happened to The Expanse? Literally subbed to see your reactions to that and it's been weeks. Have you dropped it?
It's on hold during the writers strike, but will come back when that is over!
I L🧡ve the GITS franchise. I studied western and eastern philosophy so im clever enough to understand it. Even the meanings behind the visual breaks. As soon as i saw the first movie in 1996, i became obsessed 😍
This movie is art.
Nothing so cool will ever come out again.
Ever.
You should look up every so often.
Ghost in the shell is an abstract thinkers paradise, absolute masterpiece
Yeah, the movie is from 1995 but the books are even from years prior. And Masamune Shirow was conflating concepts of Buddhism with technology, talking about nano machines and describing in crazy detail how cybernetic bodies would be manufactured, all mixed with real world inspired politics. It blew most people’s mind back then.
To me it goes so beyond every other cyberpunk work, even beyond William Gibson’s worlds, in my opinion. Masamune Shirow’s GITS world is so crazy consistent and shows greatly how the tech involved affects the world and people.
Probably if you want a body that isn't hot it has to be custom-designed.
It’s interesting that you guys said that the animators were going “We don’t have any more script, let’s just animate a Japanese City.” Because it doesn’t look like a Japanese city. Certainly not one in the 90s. Specifically, the ramshackle slums being contrasted against the sky with a plane is a vision from Hong Kong. I don’t know that any Japanese city was like that in the 90s. The overall dinginess of the urban landscape is notable because Japan in the 90s (and even today) isn’t much like that.
those long sequences of just music is probably one of my favorite parts about the film. really cements its atmosphere.
Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex is a direct lead into this movie. The last scene of the series is Motoko standing on the rooftop before dropping into the shootout.
The Problem I have with the Live action is not the use of Scarlett Johannson, its how they made the character. She's a cybernetic child that the military used for a long time and have lots of military experience. She's portrayed really weak and vulnerable. In the series, she's philosophical and inquisitive on the nature of the soul. There was corporate espinage and other events but live action GITS was garbage. She's called the Major for a reason, Pure Leadership, take charge, and gets deep in the weeds with her troops. Similiar to the Russian Female Colonel in Black Lagoon.
You definitely need to try Ghost in the Shell: Innocence.
BTW, "shell" is also a computer term, basically a UI for the OS.
The term was a lot more popular back when this came out, but it isn't used much anymore.
So "ghost in the shell" is a double meaning.
1) it is about her being a ghost in the code when she is hacking
and 2) her humanity (or whats left of it) in her robot body
I was feeling nostalgic and wanted to watch some Akira and Ghost in the shell reactions and you guys just so happen to upload this! Yay!
Though the green Matrix connection is easily made, the tank battle with the columns shot up is also a big scene in matrix.
As many have stated. GitS was a major influence for the movie.
We are all merely ghosts in shells. And this movie explores the thought that once you can create a new shell (boddy) or even create or copy a ghost (mind) there no longer is any meaning, or in fact there is new and deeper meaning in existance.
The scene with the tank - Mokoto was simply buying as much time as possible and keep the tank user involved as she knew Batu was coming to help. And it shows her disconnect from her own body and even mind.
At the end of the movie, the dinosaur bones, tree of live, the angel and the feathers, these are references to a previous movie of the director, Angel's Egg.
Watch Arise its the prequal serise that explains the formation of Section 9, the last 2 episodes of the Japanese TV 10 ep extended serise of Arise...
That links directly to Ghost in the Shell : The New Movie
Which leads directly to , and explains the Assassination in the opening sequence.
About the tank fight.
Motoko was trying to open the Multiped tank's hatch to kill the pilot, motoko's cyberframe is ridiculously tough and strong, its why she can jump off 10 story buildings, and needs special balest tanks to swim and shatter pavement when she lands.
Her weapon wasn't cutting it, her only viable option was to go for the Hatch, using all her strength the EXPLODING JOINTS!!!
Batou is even tougher, although significantly slower than Motoko