A small correction, Joseph's family did believe in his account, it was his pastor and other local people who didn't believe him, his father was very supportive from the start as he didn't support any organized religion at the time.
I was going to add this correction as well. His parents and siblings were very supportive of him and believed him. It was his pastor who was upset with him and did not believe.
@@Bazcole93 when you put together ALL the histories and not just the official written account of 1832 it is completely apparent that Joseph Smith’s family did believe it and that the people around him in the churches were persecuting him because they worried he would take away from their congregations. You have to read the Joseph Smith papers and all the history and not just out of context snippets.
Thank you Pastor Jeff! Love that you're taking us on your road trips. Jesus in the Bible also maintains that the Father is greater than and distinct from Himself. We have a voice from heaven on at least three occasions. We have the vision of Stephen of Jesus standing on (or at) the right hand of God. We have Jesus' great prayer asking for us to become one in the way that He and the Father are one. And we have the historical development of the trinitarian doctrine taking place long after the apostles were all dead. My point is, acceptance of the Trinity makes a poor litmus test for whether someone is or is not "Christian." We absolutely believe that Jesus is divine; that He is the embodiment of Jehovah of the Old Testament. We also hold, with himself, that He is not His own Father. Their unity is of heart, mind, and will, not of numerical singularity.
I forgot about the Stephan scripture where he saw Jesus and the Father also! But same invite here Pastor Jeff - Pray to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ and ask him if he and Jesus are separate beings!
Hi Pastor Jeff. I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I'm very impressed with the special way you observe and give your comments of the things you are learning about our church. I appreciate the respectful way in which you present your observations. Joseph Smith was God's Prophet to restore Jesus' church after all Jesus' apostles were killed. The Book of Mormon is a "second" witness of Jesus Christ, along with the Bible. And as you read and study the Book of Mormon with an open heart, you will have a confirmation by the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true. What a wonderful blessing it is to us to have further revealed truth for our day. And we also have our prophet, President Russell M Nelson, and the many prophets before him, that testify of Jesus's teachings. They counsel us to continue to live better with the example of Jesus to guide us. Also having 12 Apostles' teachings helps our lives, thoughts and actions to be better and happier - giving us strength to continue to do what is right and share with others our happiness. You are so thoughtful and kind to share your experiences as you learn about Jesus's Church, it's members, and the good and great news we have to share with all the world. In this world, of so many distractions, it's wonderful to have the guidance of the Lord to help us have hope and strength to always continue forward - not being confused or afraid. We Are All God's Children and Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ love us very very much! I testify that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God! Our God, Heavenly Father, also lives! The Book of Mormon is the word of God and Joseph Smith was a true prophet . Bless you for the service that you give. You are in my prayers. Lovingly, your sister
I love these videos! Thank you! One thing, Joseph's family was very supportive of him, infact his mom was the first person he told. You should read his mom's book about him. Keep exploring, I love my religion, and love that you are taking the time and making the effort to learn about us!
As for God & Jesus being 2 different entities, I’m not 💯 certain the Holy Trinity has any bearing on this quantitative issue. Yes, God the Father, the Son, & the Holy Spirit are ONE. I think the confusion might be in that God came to be born a son to Mary & Joseph in human form. When Jesus walked the earth, He did so as God in human form. However, once Jesus died on the cross, the flesh of Him was destroyed & He lives in us today as the Holy Spirit. I remember Mormons visiting my house as a kid, & please don’t take this wrong, but their approach & literature sort of scared me & just felt off. Now when I see drawings of Jesus & God together I get that same feeling & know immediately it has something to do with Mormon teaching. By the same token, I’ve never focused on this being a point of argument or debate because --God is. Years ago, I worked with what the secular world would call “a very religious person,” but she just knows the Bible, & we talked a lot about Bible stories & things of God. I had no idea what her denomination was, & I didn’t care, & I still don’t know! Her license plate said, “GOD IS”. It took me a while, but then I got it. God is! He was, & He always will be! Praise be to our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ! The Bible (God’s Word) says very clearly not to add or take away from it. The 10 Commandments say not to put any gods before God. It hurts to think that a ‘Christian’ church does these very things. If the Bible is true (& it is, not bc I say so but bc God does) then it’s almost like blasphemy to read parts of it, ignore others & put another book before it. I don’t mean it rude, but the bom seems like a lot of biblical copying. I can be wrong about things, but the Bible isn’t.
@@rOnda88 Thanks for your perspective. I don't think of Christ's flesh as being destroyed on the cross. 3 days afterwards he visited the apostles as a resurrected being and told them to touch the wounds in his hands/feet/side. He ate fish with them. My perspective is that his body was not mortal anymore, but it was still flesh. I LOVE the phrase "GOD IS" !! Similar to what Moses was told to call God (I Am). I don't think the Bible claims it is final and no more can be written. For example, Moses said that in Deuteronomy 4-2, but John also said it in Revelation 22-18. Moses lived before John, so if he meant that his book was the last book, we would have to reject John's writings. I think we're misinterpreting the meaning. In reality, the Bible receives new translations from different Christian churches frequently (There are ~ 100 different English version of the Bible), and when scholars gain new information (like when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found), it BOTH gives us proof that the Bible is authentic scripture, but ALSO gives us proof that our current Bible has minor mistakes or missing parts in it. We actually know certain parts of the Bible were lost, because the Bible itself tells us that - For example, Joshua 10 verse 13 talks about a Book of Jasher, but no such book currently exists (it must have been lost/destroyed after Joshua was written). There are ~ 20 other similar examples. In fact, we only have 5 books from Christ's original 12 apostles, did the others not write anything, or were they lost? Not trying to argue with you, just my perspective. Our intent is not to change the Bible or Christ's teachings. It's simply to clarify the parts that were lost. Thanks so much for your perspective. Sorry you had a bad experience when the missionaries visited your house. I understand that perspective. We have a lot in common with other Christians, but some teachings that are different. There's definitely a culture shock. I moved to Mexico for a few months and it's super strange at first getting to know a new culture. We're human and we make mistakes. I hope any future interactions you have are better.
@@paitesmith9133 does Lucy's book speak of any visions taking place in the grove before the ones mentioned in the beginning of the book of Mormon where the angel shows up in his bedroom? I've been challenging members on the early dating of the first vision because there is nothing I can find as far as public documentation of it prior to the 1840 publication in the times and seasons. That smells of the whole thing being an afterthought. If Joseph told his family or the early church or pastors of other denominations, that he says persecuted him, nobody that I can find publicly documented anything about it for or against the reliability of it.
Hey Jeff, I’m an ex-Mormon from Germany and recently discovered your channel. I love and appreciate your open minded and respectful way of exploring this fascinating religion that is also an interesting phenomenon of American history. It’s really interesting for me to see these historic places in your videos because I haven’t been able to see them living in Germany. I am no longer religious, but still have a strong connection with what I now call my Higher Power. Also, my Mormon past has shaped me and my personality a lot and that’s why I still have the urge to explore this religion from a different perspective, trying to process and understand how this church influenced my life. There’s many positive aspects to Mormonism, as with many religious communities, but there’s many downsides, too. I love the peace that you radiate and you can tell that you are very firm in your world view so that you’re not afraid to see over the rim of your tea cup. Love your videos, keep up the great work and especially your respectful approach to it 😊💐! Greetings from Germany!
Hi Pia, that's an interesting story and i see a lot of myself in what you say. I was born in a Germany as well and have been raised in the LDS faith but subsequently turned away, moved country and through a lot of different things i looked at (science/scientism, more fringe things, other Religions, the whole Alien seeding theories to just consciousness as in the Universe or a "Higher Power" as you say coming to find Christ in his true biblical form and it's such a rewarding and interesting thing to experience your eyes opening and things finally falling into place that never made sense to me in LDS. For the first time i truly have a testimony, not just a "rehearsed" one, for the first time i have the urge to go out and tell the people around me about Jesus and for the first time, especially looking around the world and everything that has happened and is happening right now i truly feel a peace and calm in my heart because i know what he has planned for us and i know where i will be going so no matter what happens down here, it has no bearing on my soul. I just thought i would share that with you, i wish you nothing but the best on your journey to hopefully finding to Christ at the end :)
I always feel sad for those who choose not to endure to the end because they felt the gospel to be too hard to live, or had questions they couldn't wait for Heavenly Father to give them the answer to. I'm reminded of Christ asking the apostles if they would leave him also and Peter said: To whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life. That's how I feel about Christ's church.
@@hrv4908 there's the blessed hope that the KJV bible teaches, the pre-trib rapture for the church so we don't have to endure all the say to the end, just to the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation period. It makes sense since Revelation says the only way to get "saved" will be by not denying Christ and i guess getting decapitated, not a pretty thing. As far as i know only very very very few people will live through the Tribulation and make it through without taking the mark nor having their heads chopped off so i really wouldn't be wanting to count on that so i am so glad God prepared a way for the Body of Christ to be in heaven for the duration of those 7 years.
@@onkelnighty There is actually much more Biblical documentation that the Christian Church will be on earth up until The Bowls/Wrath of God is poured out. Trust in Jesus in all of life's circumstances, come what may. Being where He wants us is the very best place to be, no matter what or where.
Jeff, great video. As a Christian, I believe appreciating the wonders of our world is amazing and deserved. There are so many contributions the LDS church has made to the story of the US and contributed to around the world. While I do not belong to the LDS church, I share a passion for appreciating and understanding their faithfulness despite persecution from so many. You just got another subscriber here.
persecusion lol old us verses them mentality. You believe that rue? Look up Missouri war lasted month between Lds and peoole of State. I also need learn more about it. Could also have US involment by that time. Joseph fleed area because going hang his ass for war.
As I watch your videos, out of habit, I brace myself for something untrue or offensive to be said but you always seem to get it right. You are very respectful of our faith and I really appreciate your sincere desire to learn.
Hey Jeff, member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints here. Just want to say that I am impressed with your sincerity in researching the church. I love your motto "fight criticism with curiosity." I've been thinking about how I can do that more when I learn more about other religions. Thanks again! Liked and subscribed.
One of the coolest moments I had was experiencing the Sacred Grove at night. You're technically not supposed to according to a sign, but my family was in the temple and I was too young to accompany them, so I went on a little adventure. It was absolutely beautiful as the grove was lit with fire flies and as the only person in the grove it made the experience even more special…
Nice work Pastor Jeff! Joseph translated the Book of Mormon-all 500+ pages, in 65 working days (not a couple of years-just one correction:-) when he was 23 yrs old.
Imaging 23 year olds today accomplishing a feat like that as well as all the literary, Hebraic, and other evidences found in the Book of Mormon. Yeah… not with his training… even the few years of schooling he took.
@@zionmama150 Did you know that not one of the prophecies that were made in the Book of Mormon......actually became true! The Book of Mormon said that Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. We all know that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Everyone knew in 1830 that Jesus was born in Bethlehem - so why would JS make that mistake??? There are many other examples where prophecies never happened or were completely wrong. How do you account for that??
@@kaywoolsey3722 oh that’s not true at all. All the Book of Mormon prophesies have happened. 3 Nephi 5, 16-30 have been taking place the last years especially. People just need to realize it and they don’t when they wrest the Spirit of the Lord and fail to repent of their sins in sincerity. By the way, the Book of Mormon says Jesus was born in the other world. Jerusalem was referred to as a country area and not as a city only.
There is historical evidence specifically from the Dead Sea Scrolls that Jerusalem was referred to as the Land of Jerusalem, Bethlehem was only like a suburb of this encompassing “land of Jerusalem” if you actually read the Book of Mormon in it’s context you would understand that when it says that Jesus would be born at Jerusalem it’s talking about the “Land of Jerusalem” not the city of Jerusalem
I enjoyed the video; thanks for producing it! Lots of other LDS folks are offering a lot of useful supplements, but I’ll just add: 1) The Smith family was basically clearing old-growth forest, and the spot Joseph picked for his prayer was near where he had been working the previous day. In all likelihood the site of the first vision was thereafter clearcut and farmed until the church re-acquired the site a century later. The woods that are there now, are all later growth. 2) Smith, as you probably know, left several accounts of his first vision. The one that has most ingrained itself in LDS history is the one he wrote in 1838, where-with eighteen years of hindsight-he sees the event primarily in the context of the founding of a church with a membership in the thousands. His earliest accounts, though, emphasize the personal nature of the visit: Smith felt weighed down by his own sins and shortcomings in addition to the confusion and sins of the world, and came before God seeking a sort of absolution, which he got. In his earlier accounts, the injunction to not affiliate himself with other churches was almost a secondary consideration. 3) A lesser-known account of Joseph Smith states that during his first trip to Cumorah, he couldn’t help thinking that all of his family’s financial woes were now over; and that he was expressly prohibited from taking possession of the plates at that time because his mind was not yet wholly focused on the things of God. 4) I don’t think much translation was actually done at the Harris farm. Harris traveled to visit Smith in Pennsylvania and assisted with the work there (actually missing his own daughter’s wedding in the process, which in conjunction with the financial support he had been giving Smith, helps explain the pressures on Harris to placate his wife). Cowdery was a newcomer to the Palmyra area, arriving as a schoolteacher and boarding with the remaining Smith family after Joseph had relocated to Pennsylvania. He was sufficiently intrigued by their account of Joseph's activities that he eventually traveled to Pennsylvania to meet Smith in person and began assisting in the production of the Book of Mormon. 5) As a practicing Latter-day Saint I’m fine conceding that the idea of a physically distinct Father and Son is not *trinitarian* . But I would disagree with any suggestion that it’s not *biblical* . We all want to believe that our own pet theories and doctrines are perfectly “biblical”; but the fact is that the Bible is hideously opaque on this issue. The New Testament authors clearly see themselves as heirs to the Jews who proclaimed the shema as a rebuke against their pagan neighbors, but the NT authors *also* proclaim a Jesus who is the offspring of the Father, manifests Himself separately from but concurrently with the Father, talks to the Father in the second person, and talks about the Father in the third person. By the time John writes, he’s combating gnostics who openly assert that Jesus had no divine nature whatsoever; and it’s quite possible to read John not as alleging a complete identity between the Father and the Son, but merely as reiterating Jesus’s divine nature and origin and affirming that this is no mere man at the center of our worship. The notion of a "trinity" is largely a response to Jews (and later, Greeks) who said "look, it's kind of weird for you guys to run around claiming to worship a son of God who is Himself a God, and still insist that you're monotheists". The notion purportedly squares the circle (though, I would argue that it does it largely through blunt force rather than intellectual vigor or spiritual power: boldly declaring what the trinity is *not*, ascribing its incomprehensibility to divine mystery, and then condemning as heretics anyone who asks inconvenient questions). But the mere fact that a doctrinal innovation neatly resolves a theological puzzle does not make it _ per se _ biblical.
There are certainly good reasons for mainline Christians to take issue with the sort of Christology that developed under Joseph Smith’s ministry; but with his first vision account Smith is simply claiming to have seen Jesus standing at the right hand of God, just as Stephen did. It’s a little jarring to see that summarily dismissed as “unbiblical”.
Well said. They were all things I was thinking and I mentioned a bit of my perspective on your 5th point in a separate point. We do not deny the divinity of Christ just define his relationship to the Father a bit differently.
Thanks Jeff! I know that these videos will be great for people. When I was an Evangelical Christian learning about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I would have hugely appreciated this resource!
Jeff, my friend, I have 2 things to say about this video. First, THANK YOU for the walk through the Grove. I'm not sure I'll ever make it to see for myself, so this was a nice virtual tour. THANK YOU! Second, the testimony you give at the end, in expressing your beliefs and what you learned in this video, have me make chills and I definitely felt the spirit confirming your loving approach as a friend in Christ. I might have started crying if I weren't headed for work right now. Thank you for being not only open to learning, but also loving and generous in your teachings as you explain the differences to see in our faiths. You're awesome!
Christ did the Father's work on his Father's behalf. He never did his own thing. Why did Jesus called the temple His Father's House? if this pastor don't think they are two separate beings. Then why are the Apostles still going into the temple after Christ's death to worship God daily in the temple. Why are they still worshipping in his Father house after his death?. Paul knew the Father and Son were two separate beings. You cannot have the Son of God sitting on the right hand of the Father inheriting a crown of glory from the Father if hes the same entity. For the Father God was also in the Beginning with the word (Christ). For it was the Father who had sent Christ, it was the Father who hadchosen Christ before being sent down to the earth. That heavenly council meeting is recorded in Revelations Chapter 5 of the Father God seated up on the throne choosing the Lamb of God to come out from among all the hosts of heaven for his earthly mission. The Claims of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints are true. The Restoration of the Gospel did happen as foretold in Acts Chapter 3, Daniel and Rev 13:7. For the word of God was only going to remain sealed up until the end times, and after that the Famine of hearing the word of the Lord (that long dark period of apostasy will come to an end) through his servants the prophets God will again speak to man like they did in ancient times.. Prophets will be brought back again on the earth Amos 3:7. The Father and the Son physically are two separate beings but they are one with their wills spiritually. The One True God is the Godhead of God. That includes the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. All three members of the Godhead work together as one God in purpose and harmony and unity. There's no conflict when you understand that all three members of the Godhead act as a High Council of heaven aligned with the Father's Will and that is how God runs his kingdom through a High Council. This pastor needs to understand that God does not work all by himself all alone, God works together in councils with others.
@@germanslice Let me ask you a question that has been disturbing me. Why does the LDS Church Organization have a policy that if you remove your name from the organization all your saving ordinances are revoked as if you never had them, including your Celestrial Marriage? I also checked with the Temple and if someone died, but had their name removed then you can't just take that name to do the work for them. This places that person in the Telestrial Kingdom along with murders just for having your name removed from the organization. This also places the belief in the LDS Organization above the belief in God. Even if someone continued attending church meetings, obeying the principles and ordinances of the gospel and lived a life of righteousness it wouldn't matter. The removal of your name from the organization becomes worse then murder and you lose all your glory. This teaching destroys family units, breaks up Marriages, causes members to disown family members, and has even caused suicide.
@@stevenhenderson9005 The Lord answered the questions himself in The Doctrine and Covenants. As for Temple Marriage that is done down here on earth to be sealed up in heaven, Paul taught the family unit exists both down on earth and also up in heaven. Eph 3:15 There are no marriages performed up in heaven in the resurrection, for the marriages are performed down here on the earth for time only till death shall you part (outside of the temple), or for time and eternity (in the temple). We don't just believe in just only a God of love and forgiveness and mercy, that is just some of God's Attributes but the full restored gospel teaches all of the attributes of God that God is also a God of Righteousness, and a God of Order and a God of Judgement and a God of Justice and also a God of Holiness and this is why God has set up judges of Israel to judge the saints with his own holy laws. The Lord has also said that in Zion shall be redeemed with judgement,and its converts with righteousness. Isaiah 1:27 So there will be judges of Israel in Zion. The righteous will also be busy also compiling the Book of Remembrance before the Lord containing all the Family History and Genealogy Malachi 3:16 which Malachi the prophet saw the saints of Zion doing. For In order to have church membership and to enjoy its privileges and blessings, and to remain in good standing in Zion you must meet the requirements that the Lord has set for membership in his kingdom. For the Lord has rules in his Father's House and living a life of righteousness and walking before the Lord in holiness and being diligent in keeping his commandments to serve God with all your might,mind and strength is what's required from a God of righteousness if you want access to the tree of life. or you cannot get access to it if you don't do these things Rev 22.. The Lord has high expectations of his saints (Rev Chp 2 and 3 show this clearly with the Lord's rebuke of the seven churches in not doing all the right things that the Lord had asked of them to do and had fallen in to sin except for one group of saints who were still walking in righteousness before him.. The righteous are warned in Ezekiel Chapter 18 and 32 of how the Lord judges by our works by saying that if the righteous turn away from their righteousness and return back again to wickedness and never return back again to righteousness and altogether turn away therefrom then all their former righteousness they have done for the Lord shall not be remembered in the day of Judgement. So it doesn't matter if the member has served the Lord all of their lives, if they don't endure to the end and altogether turn from their righteousness and never return back again to the Lord, then their former works of righteousness shall not remembered or mentioned. For the Lord has warned that God will not be mocked. That's why its important to endure to the end in righteousness and be found choosing the right that the Lord has asked us to do.. ''Blessed is that servant that the Lord shall find him so doing'' That is why the wise virgins who continued choosing the right and persisting to do the right things were blessed, while the foolish virgins who had stopped buying the oil, and had stopped doing the right things and did not fill up their lamps when they were told to were not blessed with the same blessings. Likewise the Lord has said that if the wicked shall turn away from their wickedness to righteousness and endure to the end in righteousness, then their former works of wickedness shall not be remembered. So that is how the Lord judges.
@@germanslice I am worried about some of the things you are saying and it may be just something you do as a habit, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but you really shouldn't refer the organization as "The Gospel of Jesus Christ" or even "The Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ" The only reason I bring this up is not for debate, but in attempt to make sure we recognize the Organization as being separate from The Gospel of Jesus Christ. I actually have a fear that members of the LDS Organization put more focus on the organization more than they do on God. There seams to be this idea that if you remove your name from the organization that some how that is a rejection of God and by doing so makes you succumb to the powers of Satan to live in unrighteousness. The whole idea of a policy being in place that says the removal of your name causes all your saving ordinances to be revoked is not in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ and leads people to the worship of the organization, which in turn causes people to shame or disown family members that have removed their name and is a very dangerous teaching. Some members actually think that if they break their covenants or remove their name from the organization that somehow a sealing is removed or revoked. However there is only one major sin that can be committed that would revoke your Celestrial Marriage and it was revealed to Joseph Smith in July of 1843. "those who are married by the power and authority of the Priesthood in this life, and continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost, will continue to increase and have children in the celestial glory." Here is the revelation directly from the Joseph Smith papers. "Saith the Lord God, And again verily I Say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word which is my law, and by the new and everlasting Covenant and it is Sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise by him who is anointed unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood and it Shall be Said unto them ye Shall Come forth in the first resurrection and if it be after the first resurrection in the next resurection and Shall inherit thrones Kingdoms principalites and powers dominions all heighth and depths then Shall it be written in the Lambs book of life that he Shall Commit no murder whereby to Shed blood innocent blood and if ye abide in my Covenant and Commit no murder whereby to Shed innocent blood it Shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my Servent hath put upon them, in time and through all Eternity, and Shall be of full force when they are out of the world and they Shall pass by the angels and the Gods which are Set there to their exaltation and Glory in all things as hath been Sealed upon their heads which glory Shall be a fullness and a Continuation of the Seeds for ever and ever. Then Shall they be Gods, because they have no End." What is the sin that is committed by removing your name from the organization? And where is the doctrine that teaches this? I can't find any doctrine that backs up this policy that the LDS Organization has in place about someone removing their name. I know you place the argument that has to do with the Temple and ordinances, but the reality is that all these ordinances were being performed out of the Temple before Joseph Smith died and over 11,000 baptisms for the dead were performed in the Mississippi River and the only reason Joseph stopped it is because there wasn't any good record keeping happening and Joseph figured they could do a better job recording it if it was done in the Temple. Marriage sealings in the Temple didn't start until 1890, about 60 years after the organization of the church. To say that sealings have to be performed in the Temple to be valid would cause a lot of problems especially to Joseph Smith who was never sealed to anyone in the temple. It also makes me wonder if the church is trying to place people that have their names removed into Outer Darkness by classifying it as a rejection of the Holy Ghost. This is an interesting thought because Brigham Young seamed to believe that members that left the church would be considered apostates and lose salvation and that the only way they could be saved is if they atonened for their own sins by having their throats cut and blood spilt upon the ground. "This is loving our neighbour as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it. Any of you who understand the principles of eternity, if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind." What I find really problematic is that a new convert coming into the LDS Organization doesn't realize that if they don't join the LDS Organization then all the work will be done for them so they can obtain the highest level of the Celestrial Kingdom, but if they join the LDS Organization, obtain all their covenants, then decide to leave, then they are lost to the lowest Kingdom and will not have an opportunity to accept it later. You can come in but you can't get out. So show me the doctrine that teaches if you remove your name from the organization then you will lose all your saving ordinances? What sin has been committed? If someone removes their name from the church it doesn't mean they have to stop going to church, taking the sacrament, or being involved just like a regular member. (Lots of non-members regularly attend the LDS ward with their family that are members and are even involved).
@@stevenhenderson9005 The Father can do what he wills to be done in his own kingdom through his prophets. The Church is the Father's Kingdom here upon this earth. You cannot establish your own counsel above that of the Lord's anointed servants, It is not your place to try to counsel the Lord. For Elohim is not a guy that will be counseled by anyone outside the established counsels of the Church or told what to do in his own kingdom or told how he should govern his own children...You don't hold the keys of the kingdom. The prophet hold the keys of the kingdom. Those who took upon themselves the oath and covenant of the priesthood and altogether turn thereof and never return back to their covenants break the oath and covenant. The Doctrine and Covenants is very clear on the eternal consequences of not enduring to the end. For Elohim does not tolerate rebellion in any shape or form.Obedience is the main law that's in his kingdom so . If you rise up in rebellion to establish your own counsel above that of the prophet then you run the risk of going into apostasy. That's why Paul,Jude, Peter and all other apostles warned the backsliding saints of the danger of going down into Perdition if they don't turn back from their apostasy. So yes apostasy (failing to endure to the end in righteousness) from the Lord is a serious thing. For God does not play any games. .As we saw God was not playing any games when he punished the five foolish virgins for abandoning their Covenant Responsibilities to Him and to His Father that they had entered into and cast them into outer darkness. Wise were the Virgins who were found still keeping their covenants and walking in obedience before God.
Maybe you could correct me wrong, being so close, I'm aware of an ELMIRA I was born in Herkimer new york. Is this different or is this a mistake calling it PALMIRA I aught to know, iwas born in Herkimer new york I only know of ELMIRA not PALMIRA where is the misrepresentation?
I very much appreciate your respectful and entertaining approach to all of us. The only thing I would point out, is that Josephs Family did believe that he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ. They didn't persecute him, or even question him directly on what he saw. Everyone in Josephs family had respect for him, and knew he was different, especially at his age. Joseph Smith Grandfather Asael Smith said that “he always knew that God was going to raise up some branch of his family to be a great benefit to mankind” (“Joseph Smith’s New England Heritage,”)
Very true. I don't recall him ever being persecuted by his family. For the most part they were supportive. His father Joseph Sr. never felt like any of the churches around him were right, but he was baptized in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Prophet’s mother, Lucy Mack Smith, recalled: “Joseph stood on the shore when his father came out of the water, and as he took him by the hand he cried out, ‘… I have lived to see my father baptized into the true church of Jesus Christ,’ and he covered his face in his father’s bosom and wept aloud for joy as did Joseph of old when he beheld his father coming up into the land of Egypt.”
Hello again! I wanted to add a couple things but after writing my response and refreshing the page, I found that others had already addressed the same things I had in mind. If you care to read still, my comments are below: 1) Joseph's family supported him, but he did receive a lot of persecution from townspeople and local pastors. I wonder where you read that they persecuted him? 2) You mention that Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery finished the translation of the Book of Mormon in a couple years. It is actually recorded that it took less than three months for Joseph to complete the translation. For those looking for temporal evidence of the Book of Mormon's truthfulness, the fact that he translated such a large volume of scripture, with complex narrative structures, voices, ideas, etc. in such a short amount of time with little formal education demonstrates that he was given spiritual gifts from God to complete the work (though LDS members ALWAYS seek the witness of the Spirit of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon--and the Bible--above other evidence.) 3) You said that LDS members don't believe Jesus is God. We do believe Jesus is God. We believe in the idea of a Godhead--the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, who all have that status but are separate beings. We believe Jesus is Jehovah the God of the Old Testament, that he came down in the flesh as the only begotten of the Father and the Son of God. I think what you were getting at is, LDS members don't believe in traditional Christian belief of the trinity with the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost being separate persons but one being. LDS members believe in separate beings, but one in mission and purpose. For biblical support, we often look at Christ's baptism to support this idea (Matthew 3:16-17). Christ is baptized. The Spirit comes, symbolized by the dove. And God the Father's voice is heard from heaven. We feel this shows three separate, distinct beings who are all part of the godhead. Edit to include this question: How do other Christian traditions understand those verses in Matthew?
@David Munk I’ll try to answer your question regarding Matthew 3:16-17 from an evangelical perspective. I actually think we see these verses in a very similar way as you do in that we see the three distinct members of the Godhead. The difference is that we are monotheists-we believe that the Bible teaches there is only one true God. Maybe it would help to give a definition of the Trinity. Theologian Wayne Grudem defines the Trinity as follows: _God eternally exists as three persons, Father , Son , and Holy Spirit, and each person is fully God, and there is one God._ Or as James White has written, _Within the one Being that is God, there exists eternally three coequal and coeternal persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit._ Notice the distinction between “being” and “person.” Since there is no other being like God, it is hard to come up with language that describes him that doesn’t come with baggage. For example, both definitions given above speak of “persons.” But that word brings with it the idea of finite humans who are themselves each single _beings._ In that sense, the word has its limitations. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are persons, at least in part, in that they are distinct and have an eternal me-you relationship with each other. It seems to me that Latter Day Saints often confuse Trinitarianism with Modalism, which basically states that God manifests himself singularly in different modes (Father, Son, or Holy Spirit) at different times. I would say that Modalism definitely has a huge problem with passages like the one in Matthew you mentioned. Finally, there is one other thing that seems to muddy the waters when Latter Day Saints (and many others!) try to understand what we believe about the Trinity when looking at the Bible, and that is the two natures of Christ. While we believe that God is a spirit _being_ and not human, one _person_ of the Godhead (the Son) took on a _second_ nature at the incarnation. Since then, Jesus will forever have two natures: deity and humanity. Although you obviously didn’t address your question to me, I appreciate that you asked it. I think it is good that we try to understand each other. I have been working at trying to understand what Latter Day Saints believe for the past three years.
@David Bell If what you just said about the Trinity is true, you need to be educating your fellow Christians, because what you describe isn't what they do. They literally describe one creature with three faces.
Regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint view of Jesus, I would strongly recommend reading the book Jesus the Christ, written by the apostle James E. Talmage in the temple. He explores the Savior's life and mission as recorded in scripture by ancient and modern prophets and apostles. I love especially his explanation why the Lord referred to himself as the Son of Man, as God the Father is an exalted, holy, perfect man. As Jesus is His son born into mortality with a physical body subject to hunger, thirst, fatigue, and even death, Jesus is also a man, a "man of sorrows" as Isaiah put it, yet He is also Jehovah, God the Son, resurrected in immortal glory. Paul promised that we could be joint heirs of all that the Savior received of his Father. That promise shows that yes, all of God's children can aspire to godhood, and also that God the Father is separate from God the Son, as it is hard to be an heir to yourself.
I wanted to add cause I love to talk about this subject. Many early church fathers spoke respectfully of the concept of divinity of man and man's potential to receive godhood. There is however a concern in the understanding of the word God between Mainstream Christians and LDS. God is described in the Bible as power and authority declaring that judges are these identities of power and authority and that other heavenly beings are labelled with this same power and authority. Even someone described as mighty when wrestling uses the word God which the English translation removes to bring some sort of clarity to English speakers but it is a plain and precious thing removed from the English Bible.
I've never been able to visit NY and this was so fun for me a LDS to watch this and imagine seeing them myself. It really is awesome how respectful you were to these sacred spots and weren't critical of any of the truth claims of the LDS church. I love that you can defend your own beliefs without using criticism and harshness. Bravo. I , for one, believe FIRMLY that you and I worship the same Lord Jesus Christ who died for both of us and for everyone who has ever lived.
"Not to stir up the spirit of contention." 🙂 Man, you're speaking our language there. I'm so impressed by how much leg work you must have put in to understand the LDS before even starting these videos, and how hard you're trying to respect LDS culture. Thanks for your efforts and your respectfulness and for the helpful compare / contrast.
WOW! I'm starting to love your channel more and more! As a former LDS missionary that served in the Bible Belt, I feel like I did what you're doing now, but sort of the opposite. Your videos are fun and entertaining. Not 100% accurate, but you're new and your intentions feel pure. I have been apprehensive of the moments where you point out the parts where we doctrinally split paths, but so far, those are my favorite parts. You aren't dropping bombs. You are honest in your disagreement, but aren't about proving anyone false. I love that. Every time you do this, pointing out where ideally the LDS Church might be doctrinally wrong, I'm thinking to myself, "there's a biblical reason for that too! You'll find it." Thank you for doing this. Keep going!
Good video, here are some clarifications/corrections. 1. If I remember correctly the Moroni vision was a few years after the first vision and was only that one night. 2. About men and angels, you touched on this, I Just want to make it clear that we believe men (and women of course) are angels and vice versa. Angels are humans and humans are Angels. Same species. 3. If I recall correctly when Joseph Smith went to the Hill every year, Moroni taught him various things to prepare him to take the plates, it wasn't just that it wasn't time yet. 4. Joseph and Oliver Finished The Book of Mormon in a couple of Months, not years. (85 days to be exact) 5. We do believe Jesus is God, he is just not God the Father. The appearance of both (the Father and the Son) side by side doesn't contradict mainstream trinitarianism, if it did the Bible would prove the mainstream idea of trinitarianism as a falsehood. This isn't to say we are trinitarian in Athanasian/Nicene way, because we aren't, but to say we believe that Jesus Christ isn't God is a mistake. We are technically Social Trinitarians, though we often mistakenly claim to be nontrinitarian.
I want to thank you. I don't need people to convert, though in my mind that would be wonderful. But I do need people to understand, and treat me as a valid human being. And you do that wonderfully. I appreciate that.
Being an ex catholic and a Latter Day Saint for the last 47 years there are over a 100 reasons why I became a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter Day Saints while I lived in Italy. The major reason was the appearance of God the Father and His son Jesus Christ to the 14 year old boy Joseph Smith in the sacred Grove in Palmyra New York , which forever changed the face of Christianity by destroying the myth of the mystery of the trinity. Three separate Gods the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost. This is in conformity with the Bible and is not non- biblical . Jesus prayed to the Father of us all, this makes complete sense otherwise He prayed to himself which is absurd. Sure Jesus said "I and the Father are one" but he also said " You and I are one as the Father and I are one" which makes it crystal clear that You meaning us are not part of the Godhead but that Jesus and the Father are one in purpose and He always did the will of the Father not His own will. At His baptism by John the Baptist the Father spoke from heaven and said "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." Was Jesus talking to himself and being a ventriloquist? Of course not this is obvious. So it took a 14 year old boy to forever turn Christianity upside down and forever destroy the myth of the 3 in 1 God. Now I speak to the world as an ordinary member of His Restored Church. Now you see one of a hundred reasons why THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST had to be restored because without God having spoken to a prophet for centuries, the world was in darkness, not even knowing who He really is . There were churches, the Catholics and then the justifiable Reformation which paved the way for the complete Restoration of the truths that were lost after the death of the ancient apostles, with a renewal of modern prophets and apostles to lead mankind back to the light after centuries of darkness in 1820. Let's ask ourselves this question? Do we need God's intervention right now with the misery and wickedness that is destroying our world? A loving God would not leave His children in despair without revealing Himself through living Prophets and apostles. Would He? So now you know while I believe in the Bible and continuing revelation such as The Book of Mormon and The Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price, first and foremost I follow and keep my eye on the living oracles such as prophets and apostles in His Church that He restored, that He Named, that He is the Head of THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS.
Thank you for doing what you are doing as a non LDS member you are showing others in a very non judgemental way truths about the start of the LDS church. You are doing a very good job. The only error I have caught so far is that it didn't take 2 years to translate plates from start to finish. Once the translation started it was done ✅ in approximately 60+ days. The exact number escapes my memory at the moment. I am certainly enjoying your time and effort and non judgemental ways of taking this journey.
Is it going to be the last comment I leave so coming up shortly in this October is going to be our semi and our general conference The whole leadership of the church gets together for a meeting and they direct and teach the whole church The meaning takes a whole Saturday and whole Sunday. I'm asking you Jeff if you watch it with us. You won't be able to use any of the footage of general conference because it's protected but I want to see what your takeaway from it is.
Thank you for the video Jeff! I love The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It has blessed my life in every way since I joined. I know for myself that it is the True and Living Church, even the same that He established in times of old, when he gave power and authority to his Apostles. Why are there so many Christian denominations? The Book of Mormon addresses this: “And it came to pass that…there were many churches in the land; yea, there were many churches which professed to know the Christ, and yet they did deny the more parts of his gospel, insomuch that they did receive all manner of wickedness…” (4 Nephi 1: 27) “He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.” (2 Nephi 26: 29) The First Vision helps us better understand the Bible. Why? In the Sacred Grove, we’re reminded of God declaring “Let us make man in OUR image.” (Gen 1: 26) After the fourteen year old Joseph was consumed by darkness and saved by light, the Sacred Grove reminds us of when the Lord said “man is become as one of US, to know good and evil…” (Gen 3: 22) The sacred grove reminds us of when in the Garden of Gethsemene while Jesus paid the ultimate price for our sins, He prayed “not as I will, but as thou wilt.” (Matthew 26:39) In the Sacred Grove Christ was on the right hand of His Father, like it speaks about so many times in the Bible. In the Sacred Grove, The Father introduces His Beloved Son, in a similar way as He did several times in the Bible. In the Sacred Grove we’re reminded that Christ has ascended to BE WITH His Father. ‘I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God.’ (John 20:17) In the Sacred Grove we’re reminded of Christ’s resurrection to a glorified body. “Handle me and see, for a Spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have.” ("I saw two *personages") In the Sacred Grove we’re reminded of the resurrected Christ telling Mary at the tomb, “touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father.” because He was not yet with His Father. In the Sacred Grove we’re once again reminded that He is WITH His Father. A plain and simple truth lost in The Great Apostasy. Because of the First Vision, we have a better understanding of His gospel and the nature of families. Does not Jesus being reunited with His Father imply family itself? The Bible teaches that the righteous will be heirs and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ, as sons and daughters does it not? If sons and daughters of God, then we are members of the family of God. This is the hope we have in God our Father. O how great is his love for his children! “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:” (Romans 1:20) Angels appear to men once again, like they did in the Bible, teaching the SAME gospel. A prophet, called by God Himself, after a time of apostasy, just like we read about in the Bible. For He is the same God yesterday, today, and forever. Living prophets speak to God once again, like they did in times past.
“Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth? Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also." (2 Nephi 29: 7-8) The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one God, in purpose. Christ himself taught to pray to the Father, in His name. Look at John chapter one in a different way here: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God. That same was in the beginning WITH God.“ We believe as Latter-day Saints that the Father has handed over all things to His son, that through Him and by Him (Jesus Christ) the worlds were made. (Hebrews 1: 2) He has overcome all things. He is our personal Savior and creator. Follow Moroni’s promise to read the Book of Mormon. You would then know that the book describes Christ as the Father of this world. ”Teach them that redemption cometh through Christ the Lord, who is the very Eternal Father. Amen." (Mosiah 16: 15) Then, in humility the Almighty God of Heaven and Earth appeared to the Nephites and declared: “Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name.” (3 Nephi 9: 15) I know these things to be true. -Sean
Thank you Sean! As the other person said, you explained the Gospel so much better than I could! God bless you brother! Greetings from a Welsh Saint. 🏴
Very thorough! Pastor Jeffrey, I really do love your videos and your honesty, helping us understand your understanding of Christ and the gospel. I hope you will not be offended by Sean's comments, but he has a beautiful testimony and understanding of this gospel and our Savior. I'm sure he just wants to help you understand something's that seem to elude you. I find your journey fascinating! But I see where you are missing some very important principles of the gospel.
The reason mainstream Christianity doesn’t recognize the LDS faith as a Christian denomination is based wholly on the Nicene Creed. There are many Christian churches that accept and preach non-trinitarian concepts as part of their religious teachings. The divinity of God is certain… but the nature of God is only accepted by the way the Nicene Creed interprets the Bible. Mainstream Christianity embraces that creed and refuses to consider any circumstances in language or interpretations that may have existed during the time the Nicene Creed was constructed. They just accept it based on tradition, not necessarily on truthfulness. Many denominations don’t consider the Nicene Creed canonized scripture so to consider that it’s not open to interpretation is why most Christians don’t even bother understanding what’s included. They just accept the interpretation bc they’ve been taught to, and leave the critical thinking to someone else.
Great video Jeff. Love the quality and respect. One correction is that his parents did believe him. They knew him to be honest and trusted and supported him from the beginning.
Yes there are some pretty big differences. Just thought I'd let you know I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I didn't find your explanation confrontational or demeaning at all. There's just one thing I'll disagree with you say that our belief is not what The Bible taught. I will say The Bible can be interpreted many different ways which is one reason there are so many Churches claiming that they are the right one.
I just came across this video. If Christ is God than who is Christ praying to in the Bible? Christ can’t be praying to himself can he? I hear Christ talks about his Father a lot & I don’t think he would be talking to himself. Just take that Scripture he quotes out of the equation & it makes total sence that there is indeed two separate personages. You have to take into consideration other parts from the Bible because just that one scripture alone can be confusing. I know the Bible has been translated a few different times & it’s 100% not all there. One quote of Scripture is not going to convince me what this guy is saying is true because it doesn’t make since from the rest of the teachings in the Bible. Joseph Smith might be on to something here & I want to know more.
@@danascully7358 It’s like that thing we did in school to say something to one person where it gets passed down & when the last person says it to the class it’s different. There’s different versions of the Bible where things got added & taken away. Also one scripture verse isn’t going to mean the same for everyone else.
I’m thinking the word is with God & through His son Jesus Christ is how we receive that word. That word is the same if it’s through the Father or the Son making it the same word that comes from God the Father who is creator of our spirits. Christ is God of this World that he created. & it’s through him how we get to the Father. Christ made man in the flesh while the Father created spirits to dwell in those bodies. Dosen’t a man & woman become one flesh when married? They became one to create life but they are two different individuals. The Father & Son are two separate beings but it’s the Word of God that is the same & it’s through Christ how we get to the Father. I know a lot of people prays differently & I’ve been praying to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. Compare the Father & the Son to President & Vice President. Isn’t it the same Presidency? If Christ is the God & the Father then who is Christ praying too if there’s no other Gods before him. This is the impression when I read the Bible that there is God the Father & His son that shares the same word. If this isn’t the right answer get on your knees & pray to know the truth. I’ll take that challenge to see what God teaches me because I only follow the Father through Jesus Christ. Christ is the way & light. I don’t need a book that isn’t all there or someone to tell me there’s a God. I don’t pay anyone to teach me & did Christ get paid for his teachings?
Joseph Smith’s parents didn’t chastise him! They supported him. The family always read the scriptures and knew Joseph to be an honest boy! Come on Pastor Jeff, you’ve been doing great on most of the videos! 😀
Hello from Colombia. It is very surprise that a Chrisitian Pastor dedicate time for knowing the LDS Church , history and Doctrines. You must have an open mind to do this. I hope you continue with theses videos. In the Church exist abundance oh knowledge. You will find many spaecial things even many wich we member do not know in foreign countries.
I am LDS and a few years ago my husband ( a convert) and I had the wonderful opportunity to go to the scared grove. It was in the summer time so the grove was full of green foliage and the trees were green. It was quite and peaceful so the bowed my head and prayed.. I thanked the Father first , for the opportunity of being there in the grove. Second, I asked for myself if Joseph Smith truly seen and communicated with God, the Father and His son Jesus Christ. My answer was YES!! I will never forget the love, peace, and comfort I felt there. God loves ALL of his children from the beginning of time throughout all eternity. May Heavenly Father continue to bless you on your journey.
Pastor Jeff - You do a phenomenal job! You make content creation seem easy. I can only imagine the prayer and the blood, sweat and tears that truly go into each of these. I am more than a fan of yours. I fully believe you are called of God. I believe you are prone toward, if not actually given as a spiritual gift by God, the power of discernment of truth and error. As such… Think on these accounts: “Two personages…” “One of them spoke to me, calling me by name…” “… and said, pointing to the other-This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!” I understand the controversy of these statements. God visiting Him? A personage? No, two of them. Who knew the young boy’s name? I’m trying to envision him as a content creator at the age of 14, and his intent to differentiate some kind of unique message with such an account. How after being confused with religion he would choose to concoct such an account. Was it to take on the concept of the Trinity? Particularly where history shows this account would only add to his confusion and complicate his life in the next years. But also add to his conviction and calmness, as if assured by it. As if he truly experienced it. Any self serving cult leader would have to be extremely cunning, and not only that be possessed of the adversary to differentiate the message of Jesus Christ from mainstream Christianity. And start into this business at such an early age? To accuse Joseph Smith as being a charlatan and cult leader with this kind of start, with the ultimate end game being increases power and widespread philandering is like accusing the boy David of killing Goliath and rising in power for the ultimate end game of being with Bathsheba and having multiple wives. The fascination to me is that this confusion became his reputation as a young man. This one account, knowing he told it multiple ways. For many years. With family, friends and enemies. And there was no self-serving agenda. Only confusion. Confusion which lasted for years as you have read in Rough Stone Rolling. This continued. This confusion, this lack of maturity until he was ready to do what he was commanded to do. Only then he became empowered. Only then the work expanded. When you finally read the Book of Mormon you will know it came from God. Not by the writings alone. But from the conviction of the Holy Spirit. I pray that you let it in, knowing it would change your life in difficult ways if you did. But God would see you through if you let it in. As you read it…. What man could write that in 90 days? Consider…. He had witnesses, his translators, with him through the entire process. There was no manuscripts that suddenly appeared with some claim of origination. Even those translators, who ultimately denounced Joseph, did not denounce the Divine intervention that took place in that process of how it came about. He didn’t roll into town one day with a story. He lived it, locally. Until they drove him out. And he was persecuted through out. With others looking on. He never made money. All of his business efforts failed. He ran a store and it failed because he was prone to not collecting payment and giving to those in need. A pretty poor cult leader in any right. There is no need to worship Joseph Smith. Particularly as a master content creator. Only to be grateful for his contributions, despite his lack of education. With the same kind of character traits and convictions as those Jesus Christ called - Peter, James, John etc. Obedience, strength, humility but boldness in defense. Arthur Henry King said: “The beautiful, well-balanced prose of Joseph Smith’s writings is the work of someone bending all his faculties, under inspiration, to expressing eternal truth.” Why? Because most of what is attributed to have been written by Joseph Smith was not actually written by Joseph Smith. Those who do not believe ancient prophets wrote the Book of Mormon unfairly put all of their words as Joseph’s. Certainly his own writings hold this same conviction but it is mostly his translations and transcription of his revelation that others attribute to him. Imagine today if a young man posted that he has been visited by God. Imagine the reception he would receive. Imagine if decades later he was still relevant and being talked about? Because he offered up what he called proof of that. Or hundreds of years later. Because more and more proof came about. He would have to be master content creator from that point on. Producing point after point and work after work. Such would either be possessed of God, or the adversary. There is no in between. No one is that talented to make it up on their own without some kind of intervention of some supernatural power source. If the Book of Mormon is real then Joseph Smith is a prophet. If it is of God you can know by any other way that you know if anything else is true. But to know you have to read it with the intent of wanting to know if it is of God. The Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ. And not a work of Joseph Smith but one of ancient prophets. It’s the tale of failed civilizations and why they failed. With the intent to show, in our modern times, what God will and will not allow. All in leading toward His Second Coming. To help those in these times follow Him and have comfort and better understand. And to know what to avoid. It is about the power of prosperity that is promised to those that keep the Commandments given by Christ Himself and the result of when a nations/societies/countries becomes excessively prideful, their laws become corrupt and God can no longer sustain His works without a mass humbling. It is as relevant today, if not more so, than when it was first published. With accounts and themes that are relevant today. And could not be attributed toward any visionary content creation of his 1820 frame of political reference What if it is false? If it is. It came from Joseph. And if it is false then it begs the question - Why would Joseph choose this way to differentiate mainstream Christianity in an attempt to get gain? What if it is true? If it’s true, it came from God. So then your argument of it not being representative of Mainstream Christianity is true. But for a different reason than you may have considered. That becomes the entire point. One thing is true… It is different from mainstream Christianity. You have proven this with your videos. May God bless you! I pray for your ministry and your well being.
Great videos, love the respect. The one hang up I had is that members of the Church DO BELIEVE that Jesus Christ is God. I'd suggest researching beliefs about the Godhead in the Church. But moreover, I'd research about the impact in people's lives that live the Church's teachings. I'd research what prophets and apostles say about the power of covenants and ordinances (not just 'rituals' as they've been referenced). And I'd look at how the Church is trying to fulfill Christ's call to serve others and help all children of God return to Him.
I never really thought about point about Angels possibly being resurrected men that you brought up. Thanks for pointing that out. Actually that confirms my faith in modern day revelation. But you are very observant to notice that. Love your videos and I love you for fighting criticism with curiosity. Makes me want to be more curious and respectful about where your beliefs come from.
I think it is important to say that the bible says a lot about angels, but it never explains exactly what they are, and it is also obvious that there are different types of angels. Elijah and Moses came to Jesus in the Mount of Transfiguration and we consider them to be angels. At the end of the day we know that some angels come in a form that is distinctly alien and strange. We also know that some angels come in the form of men with no wings or anything of the like. There is so much variation that the most we can glean is that Angels are messengers and servants of God. Perhaps that is the only quality that bind all angels in the bible together. I guess to add to this we also know that angels are beings that can choose as we know there are fallen angels.
As a Christian believer, and not a member of the Latter Day Saints Church-thank you so much or doing the research and sharing! I have dear friends who are members of the LDS church and this helps me understand what goes into being apart of their life and culture. I will be sharing and recommending your channel to anyone who wants to learn more! Thank you for explaining in a very respectful way!
I enjoy your videos. It’s refreshing to see someone take an open minded yet critical eye approach to learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS without the spirit of contention. Very rare to see.
I’m really enjoying watching all of the videos here on your channel. I’m not too far in to this video but something I’m hoping you’ll consider doing is explaining more how you feel in these places. The thoughts going through your head and just your emotions while you’re there. Also, with Martin Harris. As far as I’m aware he was loved by Joseph Smith and was extremely helpful in expanding the church. After Martin and Joseph had translated the first book in the Book of Mormon, Martin wanted to show his wife. Joseph prayed and asked if this was okay, the answer he received was no. After 2 more times of asking, Heavenly Father ended up saying fine (not because his answer changed but because it was their choice to listen or not). Martin took the plates and lost them/they got stolen. Joseph was distraught knowing he should have listened to the Lord. But him and Martin stayed close and were still friends. Those pages were also not retranslated and we don’t have those pages in the Book of Mormon.
I'm also a Christian pastor. I appreciate the way you are dealing with this subject matter. You do it with a great deal of grace and humility and yet your insight in many things are to be commended. Your statement, though, that we don't see an angel who was once a man, Rev. 22:9 says of the angel who was speaking with John, "Then he said to me, 'See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.'” Bless you in your work.
It shouldn’t be hard to believe.. As a member of the Church of JesusChist of latter-saints we believe in the trinity being as follows” God the Father, Jesus Christ the son, and the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit which ever u feel calling! In the New Testament Jesus says he is here to do the will of his father.. with that being said is not hard to believe that Joseph Smith did saw two personages when he prayed.
When you narrated the history of the church I felt that spirit again confirming the truth I believe in about the restored gospel. Thanks for you open mind and respect.
I live in Utah and I appreciate these videos where you go to the actual sites. I am not Mormon but am surrounded by them here in Utah. I wish you would do the same research into Catholicism. I love your approach, you are not judgmental and don't just try to debate the faith or the doctrines too much. You do a great job of entering it with an open mind and share the information in a respectful way. For this reason I would love to see a video series on Catholicism from a Protestants point of view. Although, travel to those locations won't be in the U.S. Thank you for the time and energy it takes to make the videos.
Pastor Jeff can explain everything he needs to know about Catholicism without having to travel to any place other than Rome. 😊 One thing I believe as a Catholic is that the people are the Church. That's why so many Catholics as well as non-Catholics were appalled by the sex abuse scandals in the Church, and why Catholics feel free to disagree with the Vatican on issues such as female priests or divorce. WHen I say that the people are the Church, I mean that the pope and the priests ar ethe keepers of Church doctrine and Church teachings, but they are servants of the Church, and they serve the people. Nowhere was that more apparent than in the 1980s, when Pope John Paul II urged Eastern European Catholics to hold strong to their beliefs against Communism, and by 1991 the Iron Curtain fell, the USSR was gone, and Lithuania - the only Catholic ex-Soviet republic - was a nation once again.
I quite enjoyed this video. Well done. There are a few inaccuracies and misunderstandings, but overall you did a great job at representing The Church of Jesus Christ in a non-confrontational way. Thank you. It's always refreshing to have a more peaceful approach to these things. I hope that as you continue to learn more that you will come to understand our perspective more. It can't come overnight, but if you keep searching and studying, then you'll find all that you need it can become even more clear. Best wishes to you, brother.
Loved the video. The first vision is more than beginning of the restoration of Christ church. It exemplifies the scriptural pattern for learning and confirming spiritual truths--i.e. by asking God.
As an active and sustaining member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I liked and Subscribed! Great videos! I appreciate your open desire to learn and do so without contention. You eloquently point out differences between our faith and yours but not with disdain or contention but with reverence. I appreciate that. I can’t find a video yet about your reading of the Book of Mormon. I saw your reaction video to our video about it. But along this journey I’m curious if you’ve read it or if you plan on doing so and making a video about that? That is a staple in fact “keystone” of our religion! Keep up the great work!
You are usually very appropriate and accurate. Throughout most of this video you are spot on. However, you stated that Joseph’s vision indicated that since Jesus was a distinct personage from God the Father that he was not necessarily God. This is not the LDS belief. We believe He is God The Son or God’s Only Begotten Son who possesses all of The Father’s attributes. We believe in the Godhead, three distinct Beings… God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Jesus is God.
Wow, that looks cold. When I was 11, my parents took our family to the Sacred Grove, and my mom collected many leaves. When we got home she dried and laminated them and then gave them to all of the kids in the congregation. The parents were thrilled.
Hey, I’m a Pentecostal who lives in Utah for my whole 20+ years. Early LDS’ history is part of Utah’s history, they’ll only touch upon some religious aspect of the history to explain the what, why, when, where, and how. Most teachers are members of the church, and they don’t mix religion with school, and only mention if asked by students.
Very insightful on how non-LDS view our perspective of the Godhead. It is correct that we do not believe in the idea of the Trinity as defined at the Roman govt sanctioned council of Nicea. To be more clear, every ounce of our doctrine expresses our belief that JESUS CHRIST is GOD. We also believe that there is an entirely separate corporeal being in God The Father. You mentioned that the bible clearly teaches the idea of the Trinity, I don't understand that because I definitely get the verses that refer to the oneness of God but there are also plenty that support the idea that they are separate and distinct. So glad you got to experience Cumorah and also that you are so kind and thoughtful in your presentation. Thanks for the good content.
I’m an evangelical and, for clarification purposes, I’d like to offer a response to your statement, “You mentioned that the bible clearly teaches the idea of the Trinity, I don't understand that because I definitely get the verses that refer to the oneness of God but there are also plenty that support the idea that they are separate and distinct.” First, I hope you are not confusing Trinitarianism with Modalism, which basically states that God manifests himself singularly in different modes (Father, Son, or Holy Spirit) at different times. Rather, your observation about oneness and distinctiveness is what the doctrine of the Trinity is all about. We believe that the Bible teaches that there is only one God, and yet it shows there is a distinction between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son or the Spirit, the Son is not the Father or the Spirit, and the Spirit is not the Son or the Father. And yet the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God, and there is but one God. That’s the doctrine of the Trinity in a nutshell. We normally use the language that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one *Being* but separate *Persons.* (I think Pastor Jeff slipped up a little when he implied around 13:25 that we don’t believe that Jesus and God are different persons-I suspect he meant “persons” in the sense that we think of “people,” or human beings. But “one God, three Persons” is a very common way of describing the Trinity.) Personhood, among other things, has to do with _you-me_ consciousness and relationships. The doctrine of the Trinity embraces the otherness/distinctiveness within the Godhead while still embracing monotheism. Anyway, I’m not trying to argue for the doctrine of the Trinity but merely trying to clear up some confusion you might have about it.
Hello Jeff, I thank you for your friendly and respectful study of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am a member of this church. I have been my whole life. My mother was a convert and my father is a non practicing Catholic. I enjoy watching your videos and learning how an evangelical pastor understands and views us when trying to learn with an open mind and with respect. I think for the most part, you are doing a good job anad bein gkind and respectful towards our church and our members. I think it is important for all of us to know our faith well and for it to take root in our hearts and change us. I also think it is important for all of us to not wear blinders, but to learn of others and their faith to better understand our own faith and to better understand and love our neighbor. I have a few respectful comments/criticisms I would like to make regarding a few of your videos. I know the name of our church is very long and I completely understand why you often refer to us as Mormon or LDS (I know you are trying to use LDS more often which is better), but honestly, we believe that our prophets were instructed by Jesus Christ to name this church after Him as it is His church, therefore the MOST IMPORTANT PART of our name is "THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST". "Of Latter Day Saints" is almost like a subtitle, because Jesus Christ is what our faith and salvation is centered around like other Christian faiths. The church has asked that we use that FULL name at least when we begin speaking of the church (so like maybe in the first sentence you use to refer to us in each video so that the core of our faith is well represented in our name. To me it feels like you try to avoid using the name Jesus Christ as much as possible when you talk about us and who we are but use it often when talking about your faith. The same thing happened in another way when you took the tour of one of our book stores, you made mention of latter day saint artwork, but then quickly scanned the camera around part of the room to by pass the many pictures of Christ I saw in the scan and made no mention that a lot of that art work is of Our Savior, Jesus Christ, almost like you were trying to make sure others didin't notice. Then, when you toured our church building, you did not mention at all that the most important part of our chapel is the sacrament table where we prepare the Sacrament of Christ. That is the most important part of our meeting. It is what makes that room and that meeting so different than any other part of the building and of our other gatherings. (side note: we do mainly call our meeting houses "churches", we mainly refer to the "sacrament room" as the "chapel" and the word "ward" is another word for "congregation" for us, and each congregation or ward is lead by a "bishop" who does lead, shepard and teach us at the puplit and in other ways like a pastor or minister in other Christian churches, even though we ahve members also teach at the puplit as called upon by our bishop, you seemed unsure about that terminology in a few videos).You also, again, in the tour of our church, showed the pictures all around the building slowley this time (thank you for that) but again rather than noting that they were all pictures of Jesus Christ and many were of biblical accounts, you just refered to them as "Latter Day Saint Art", making me feel again like you were trying to avoid pointing out that we obviously focus on the Savior in our church. We believe that EVERYTHING we do in our church and in our personal practice of our faith is supposed to lead us back to and point us to Jesus Christ, our Savior. Then, just to clarify, when you visited the sacred grove, you got two things wrong, as others mentioned, the Book of Mormon was translated in about 60+ days not multiple years, but also, Josephs' family was very supportive and believed him from the beginning and helped him in his journey of learning. This is important. His parents were the first people he told, right away. The community was NOT supportive. Also, the reason why Jospeh went back to the Hill Comorah 4 times but did not get to take the plates to translate until the end is NOT just because it wasn't time. That makes it sound like muliple pointless endeavors. He was told to go there on the anniversary of his first visit each year to receive more instruction and learning from the angel Moroni. We believe he was being prepared and taught. Lastly, I understand the differences between main stream Christianity and the Church of Jesus Chrsit of Latter Day Saints. And I understand that most Christians feel that those differences are so significant that we do not fit into the box of "Mainstream Christianity". I think as members of our church, most of us are completely okay with that analysis. In fast we would agree on the differences you point out. BUT, I think it is still disrespectful and incorrect to say that we are NOT Christians at all, when we say and live in a way that we believe in Christ as our Savior and Redeemer and that it is only in and through Him and His Atonement that all mankind may be saved. His name is in our name. We believe he is divine and Godly. Why can't other Christians, instead, say that we are not like other mainstream Christians but we ARE Christian, just maybe in another box. I don't tell various sects of muslims they are not muslims because they don't believe the way I think all muslims should believe. I don't say that to Hindi's or Jews either. It is for each person to say what they are and what they believe and then to live like they believe so that their life testifies of who they are. To tell me that I am NOT a Chrisitian, which in the dictionary is defined as "one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ", when I say that I am and try to live every day in a way that would emulate my Savior's teachings and life, is disrespectful of me. You don't have to belive that my bleifs are correct, but honor my statement that I am a Christian because I believe and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, as I understand them, just as you do. Thank you for reaading this. I have been holding my tongue for many months now, and had to finally say something, but I will try not to make any more strong comments and just enjoy watching your journey of fighting criticism with curiosity.
@10:20 Joseph was merely not upset at Martin, but he was upset with himself for not having obeyed the commandment from the Lord to not let Martin Harris take them to more than the few people that the Lord told him he could. It was the similar scenario as Samuel and Saul when Saul went ahead and did the sacrifice himself against the commandment to wait. Martin showed them to more people than we was allowed by God and that’s when Joseph was so worried because he had tempted God by asking him more times and being the “importuning woman” to put it in a parable sake. He ought to have been content to listen to God’s answer and not buckle to mankind. But it was a lesson to them both, and just as Christ can turn our mistakes into a useful lesson, we gained more revelation that the “works and designs and purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught.” (See D&C 3) Joseph Smith forgave Martin Harris and was still in fellowship, but the Lord did not trust Martin to be scribe anymore. So that’s the full story. It wasn’t just that Joseph was upset, he was worried He had let down God. Martin was also worried. The Lord gave them the revelation in D&C 3 to let them know God was sovereign.
I am an LDS member and just want to say that I really, really appreciate these videos! You are incredibly open minded and respectful in your teachings/dialog, and it's actually helping me better understand why non-lds Christians are "uncomfortable" with our teachings. Thank you so much for these videos!!!
I have many non-LDS Christian friends (many in the bible belt). We have had many discussions about many of the things you bring up. I always feel their questions to me (an LDS member) are out of great love and kindness. However - my heart hurts so deeply when they say I am not "Christian". You've helped me immensely understand why they may feel that way. But it still hurts. My relationship with Christ is so deep and precious, that to be told I am not "Christian" just because my version of Christ doesn't line up with theirs is very difficult for me to grapple with. I've also been told that I can't be saved or be led by God/Christ in my life, unless I accept that God is Christ, rather than Christ is the literal Son of God. This also hurts to hear from my fellow "Christians". I have a great deal of faith in Christ and His grace and have felt His spirit and guidance immensely in my life. Just something for you to think about when you talk about how the other Christian faiths denounce our Christianity. It is very personal and can be hurtful. I'd also love to hear you talk more about the contrast of our beliefs in the trinity. Can't we agree that the bible is a little confusing in this matter? There are many references of them being one but also as Christ being the "son of God". Even without Josephs visitation and revelations, the single incident in the bible when Christ was baptized and the spirit descended in the form of a dove and God said " Behold my beloved son" - to me that is a clear representation that they are 3 separate beings. I imagine we could "bible bash" all day on this subject. To me - I accept that it is a bit confusing in the bible and both sides can be affirmed in their beliefs - depending on what they are looking for. Am I understanding my friends wrong? Do you truly believe members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints cannot be saved in our current beliefs? Are we lost souls even if we have faith in Christ and His power to save - regardless of our religion and belief in the trinity. I mean no malice. Just trying to understand my dear friends better. Thanks for your help!
Yes!, likewise a million thanks for virtually toured me to a place that is so dear to me. John 1:1 in the begining was the Word, and the Word was "With" God, and the Word was God... With all due respect, how could you missed the word "With", that it's plainly meant, you are not alone, that you are with somebody else. So many times the Lord Jesus Christ express, the things he do/received is from the Father, this one also in John 17, And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine "own self " with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. It really show that they are separate beings. On this verse also, it tells us that before the world was, the Lord Jesus Christ was already glorified ( God the son ). That Heavenly Father tasked His only Begotten Son Jesus Christ, that through His son all that was created were created visible or invisible, so naturally if you are the creator, you are the God of your creations like the earth for one. The Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ always give honor to Heavenly Father ( God the Father/ the one true God ), the one that gave him all power and authority That is why the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ (Jehovah/ I Am ) spoke to His chosen people the Israelites in the old testament, that he is their only God, no other God form before and after him (as if He is telling them to stop making/worshipping manmade god) that He is the alpha and omega of all of his creations. .
Yes they are separate beings but one in purpose. There's no conflict.For The fact is The Son of God had a Master God who was instructing him in all his ways to become just like him. Jesus was receiving instructions al the time from God his Father. His Father was teaching him.
Can I ask what you mean when you say "That is why the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ (Jehovah/ I Am ) spoke to His chosen people the Israelites in the old testament, that he is their only God, no other God form before and after him (as if He is telling them to stop making/worshipping manmade god)"? Do you believe that Jesus made the world but God didn't?
@@jakeb3781 just briefly jumping in. We, as Latter-day Saints, believe that Jesus Christ made the world under the direction of God the Father (Elohim). Heavenly Father instructed Christ in what to do and how to do it, but Christ created the world. I think the confusion may come from how the word ‘God’ can be used. God is a title. The Godhead is made up of three persons: God the Father (Heavenly Father/Elohim), God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Ghost (the Holy Spirit/the Comforter). They are one God in purpose and intent, but they are three separate beings. I hope this helps :)
Thank you for being kind. I would love to see the sacred grove in lush green times of year. I have heard that if we really walked in someone’s shoes, then we would have no judgment or criticism, and possibly we may have empathy and love. I wish that others could know me. I have walked a very difficult road, and I am very misunderstood.
I love your outside perpestive of the LDSchurch and how you and other christains may view us. Im LDS too. But Im studying the bible for 5 years now and Im seeing things different than before in both the LDS church AND in other christain beliefs.
Hey Pastor Jeff, what you are doing is awesome. Two points of history that sticks out. One has been addressed already, that his family did believe the account of the First Vision. Second, it was the day after Moroni first came to him that he went to find the plates. Everything you do here is fantastic though! Honestly its a breath of fresh air that you try and talk about the Restored Church and our beliefs in such a fair light. I've met many other Christians who don't care to treat us as fairly. So thank you for all you do!
Thank you for ur video, I’m LDS. I appreciate that ur giving this effort. Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. Hopefully you will come to understand this a bit more 😉. Also, Joseph’s family was very supportive of him. I hope that u are praying your way through this adventure with an open heart and mind 😊.
Cool video, great virtual tour. I’m always interested or see what your reaction as a Christian pastor will be. I guess the one thing that I would want to add is that we do believe Jesus is God. And also the Father. And also the Holy Ghost. Just look at the Book of Mormon. Very much emphasizes the Oneness of God. A lot of members won’t say that because we do make a bigger deal of their distinctiveness than most other Christians. And there are some differences for sure. But as far as I’m concerned, I’m ok with the statement that they are 3 persons and the same God. That doesn’t contradict in my mind with the other things we teach about the nature of God. But I definitely understand why other Christians would have a hard time with the other things we teach abt God.
So we have many, many important beliefs with other Christian faiths...and that is good. Where we disagree is the very man who translated the amazing Book of Mormon into English (a book that you can hold in your hand and read) also testified that he saw Heavenly Father and his beloved son Jesus Christ "standing in the air" above him....which makes much more sense when you carefully read the Bible, than believing in a trinity.
I think it is wonderful what you are doing pastor Jeff! You will no more than many members of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints. I have been a member for over 32 years; born and raised Roman Catholic; became a Born Again at 21 years old; attended many nondenominational churches until I read, studied, and prayed 🙏🏽 about the things I read and studied about the Lord Jesus Christ. At 27 years old, I joined the LDS Church in 30 January 1990 baptized on a Wednesday evening at 7pm without any of my family attending but new friends attending my baptism. I have obtained a greater knowledge, experiences of the Doctrine of Christ and I am ALL IN to invite ALL to Come Unto Christ regardless of whether they join the LDS Church; should they more power to them should they NOT it’s okay as long as they have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ💯‼️👍❤️🙏🏽 I too am curious to learn what you discover 😊
Wow, I'm working through your videos and am just impressed with the depths you are going. I myself haven't made the trip to Palmyra. Love the respect and the quality of your videos. Thank you for sharing.
Nicely done. I'll be watching more. If you've not already planned it, a trip to the LDS Priesthood Restoration site in old Harmony, PA (now Oakland Township in Susquehanna County) would shed additional light on the production of the Book of Mormon and on Joseph and Emma Smith. The name of the site gives away that you'll find out there about priesthood in the church, and also about Joseph's and Oliver's baptisms. There is a visitor center and reconstructed homes, and the always helpful guides you've found in other places.
Hi Jeff, thank you for your excellent videos! I have watched many of them and I enjoy them a lot and am looking forward to viewing them all. As an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for more than 40 years, and in response to this video, I just wanted to insert something here about how I personally understand Jesus Christ as God. The Book of Mormon -- Another Testament of Jesus Christ teaches that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Eternal Father. But it also teaches undeniably that Jesus Christ is God, even though He is a separate and distinct individual from His Father. When Jesus Christ introduced Himself to His people in the Americas in The Book of Mormon, He proclaimed Himself as God when He said, "Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world." (3 Nephi 11:13). God, the Eternal Father, His Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct individuals but are united in the Godhead in such a full and complete way that Jesus is speaking the truth when He introduces Himself as God. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are indeed “one God, without end.” (2 Nephi 31:21). I hope you find this helpful as you embark on the adventure of reading The Book of Mormon - Another Testament of Jesus Christ for yourself. God bless you for your curiosity and willingness to explore the Gospel of Jesus Christ as presented in the Book of Mormon and administered by leaders and others in His restored church. Thank you.
Another wonderful video. Appreciate your respect and kindness. I would encourage you to read Saints. It’s our history. I’ve been a member all my life and have always been taught that Jesus is a God. There is God the Father and God the Son. I would love to see a discussion with you and Greg from Cwic media. I think you two would have a fascinating conversation.
Thank you brother. I was going to criticize you until I made it to your takeaway. I see what you did there. My daughter who grew up in a non denominational Christian church and recently graduated from a private Christian high school just became a mormon. We're praying for her salvation as she clearly never knew Him. May God through the Holy Spirit continue to give you wisdom and discernment. God bless.
Thanks for your efforts with these video's. The end of this episode needs a little clarity. When The Father and the Son appeared to Joseph, yes, they are separate beings... but they are one God, two members of the Godhead... and the Holy Ghost, the third member of the Godhead, was also very much present or Joseph could not have endured the presence of the Father and the Son. Christ is God. Father is God. The Holy Ghost is God.
Another small correction... it took Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith about 3 months to finish the translation of the Book of Mormon after Martin Harris lost the 116 pages, once Joseph recieved the ability to translate again!. I think you just made an honest mistake... didn't mean to say years! 🤗
Joseph didn't do all the translation there at the Martin Harris farm. Joseph wasn't angry at Martin Harris. Martin Harris kept on asking him for him to take the manuscript to show it to a learned translator. Joseph Smith would pray to God God will tell him no multiple times. Martin Harris got them pushing it so eventually Joseph prayed one more time and then God said eventually fine do it. So Martin Harris took it to the learning translator the professor the professor or the professional wrote him a certificate of authentication when he asked Martin how did Joseph get the plates he told the story then the professional took the certificate and ripped it into pieces saying that there was no more revelation. Then Martin Harris still getting showed it to his family which Joseph told him God said not to do Martin did it anyway. then at night some of his family stole the manuscript. And when Martin's family stole the manuscript their plan was to wait for Joseph to retranslate that exact same writing so then they can go and change the original manuscript to say that Joseph was wrong so when David whitmer became his scribe David whitmer asked him if they were going to retranslate that portion of the Book of Mormon Joseph said no because God told him not to do so because God told him about the plot That Martin's family was going to do. And when Martin lost the plates Joseph lost the gift to translate and he felt like he was damned and that he was cut off that there was no coming back from this he felt like that he did the greatest sin that anyone could do he felt like that he was a complete another failure. And Joseph's family never persecuted ridicule him after he told him about their visions his mother Lucy Max Smith immediately believed him and when he told his father at the time when Moroni came to him after he tried to jump the fence but he fell unconscious on the ground when he got done visiting with Moroni for the fourth time you went to his father because Moroni told him to do that. Joseph Smith Senior told Joseph to go to the hill to get the plates Joseph's father told Joseph, "It was of God." And Martin Harris and David whitmer were not Joseph's only scribes his wife Emma Smith helped them describe the Book of Mormon as well. And Martin Harris after he Lost the manuscript he never returned and talked to Joseph again. And for more information we have more than just the Bible in the book of Mormon we have what is called the doctrine and the covenants and the Pearl of Great Price they're not going to coincidence it's a recording of the spiritual history of the church The Pearl of Great Price is a manuscript that was found with a mummy Joseph purchased the mummy took a look at the scrolls that was with the mummy and he said those writings came straight from the father Abraham's own hand those drawings that are in The pearl of great price are the exact copy of Abraham's own drawings in the style of art from his own hand.
From The Book Of Morman, 2 Nephi 31:21 reads: "And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen."
Great video! None of the translation occurred at the Martin Harris’s farm (I’m sure Martin’s wife at the time would have had no part in that!). It primarily occurred on the Hale property in Harmony, PA and finished at the Whitmers near Fayette, NY. Also, Oliver helped Joseph finish the translation in less than 3 months, not 2 years. Hope that helps!
Thank you Pastor Jeffrey for your willingness to open minded study. Blessed are the peacemakers...Thank you for the peace you desire to share. Matthew 5:8,9 8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. May we see God in the image of every person on this earth to be the sons and daughters of God... that is when we will see peace. Thank you for your honesty, respect, and pure heart. I pray for you and your content to remain this way. God Bless you and your family forever.
First off, thank you for the work you’re doing. So many times I feel other Christian denominations view Latter-day Saints like Voldemort - “he who shall not be named.” They’re afraid to even ask about what we believe and why. So this is refreshing. Next, I think you may have a mistaken impression. Even though Latter-day Saints believe that God the Father and Jesus Christ are separate beings and acknowledging that that alone is very different than most Christian denominations, we do believe that Jesus Christ is also God. We believe He created the earth. We believe he was God made flesh. In LDS doctrine, their separateness does not in any way diminish Jesus Christ.
Love the video...i know its irrelevant to whats being talked about but as a musician i love the background music at about the 8 minute mark haha very folky blue grassy sound..nice choice brother 👌
Love your videos! Thanks for your respect :) Some thoughts: Moses appeared to Jesus on the mount of transfiguration. If Moses could reappear on earth to Jesus I think that's a very clear precedent set for Moroni to reappear on earth to Joseph.
These are such thoughtful clips, I enjoy thinking about them throughout the day. Thank you! Where can I find your music? It’s beautiful. There is some misinformation already listed but I appreciate your thoughtfulness and respectful handling of our culture, history, and beliefs.
I had an experience about 10 years ago when I started reading the Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ with my little boys. We started at the very beginning. The introduction is long for kids but so fun to imagine Joseph Smith’s story with them. When I said my prayers that night I felt an undeniable witness that what we had started reading was good and true. For a time I wondered why I couldn’t have had that experience with the Savior. It was just so powerful. I later realized I had! The Spirit and Joseph were both pointing me to Jesus Christ. A Prophet does not stand between you and our Savior, he stands with you and points the way to Him. My understanding of that experience has changed and I have found different words to describe it over the years but the experience itself has never changed. I can relate to Joseph’s different accounts of the first vision. I’m grateful for Joseph and Emma’s continual sacrifices to do the work of the Lord and especially for the restoration of a Prophet and revelation for our day. It is good to see that revelation is a process even for a Prophet!
Hi! I love your videos, I've been watching them for the past few days and I appreciate the love and respect you show while exploring LDS religion. In one of your videos you state that you're a history buff, there is a book series called The Saints that explores the history of the church from its beginning to current times. I think you would like and appreciate those books. Church historians worked for years putting it together making sure it was as accurate as possible while still being reader friendly. Just a suggestion ☺️, I look forward to future videos from you.
Subscribed! I'm loving this channel and how you compare, contrast, and teach, rather than attack (many people attack, LDS included, do when discussing other faiths). I'm learning a lot and enjoying the variety of perspectives about the different ways people understand and follow Jesus Christ. I'll respectfully add my thoughts to the conversation! You mention in your video that the Bible (and most other sects of Christianity) disagrees with Joseph Smith's experience of seeing Jesus Christ and God the Father as separate beings. However, if I understand history correctly, the doctrine of the Trinity was solidified and decided on in the year 325 at the Council of Nicaea. Because there was disagreement on this very issue (the nature of God and the relationship of Jesus Christ with The Father), a group of bishops held the council to decide what the "true" interpretation should be. The result was the Nicene Creed and the doctrine of the Trinity. Here is my question: If most Christian denominations believe that revelation ceased after Jesus Christ and the Apostles, how can they also trust the interpretation of a group of men 300 years later? Why trust the interpretation of these people more than others (such as Joseph Smith) if all are without revelation. Many crucial theological doctrines were established many years after Christ and the Apostles were long gone. Including the very organization of the Bible (another council decided which books, letters, revelations, and epistles to include, which ones to reject, and their order). Another very interesting doctrine that was created hundreds of years after Christ is the concept that revelation has ceased, seems a bit ironic to me. While many Christian's point to the Bible as the origin of these doctrines, the origin of these doctrines actually stems from an interpretation of the bible, interpretations which, ironically, came forth supposedly after a time that revelation existed. Members of the LDS faith do not believe in things contrary to the Bible, we just disagree with the interpretations of the council of Nicaea. And this is all the more reason to believe (and hope) in revelation and additional guidance from God. For example, you quote John 1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." But why does John say that "the Word was with God"? Why not just skip that sentence? Depends on how you interpret it. In John 17:21, Jesus is quoted to have said, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us." If we believe that Jesus is saying that he is literally the same being as The Father, than we must also believe that we can be literally the same being as Jesus and God? Or maybe he is just saying we can be unified with them, in the same way that Jesus and God are unified (one) but separate beings. Just depends on the interpretation.
I have watched several of your videos and I am SO impressed with your ministry. You are fair, WOW! My main point that I would like your opinion on is indeed the trinity. As a recent convert to the LDS church the trinity issue always bothered me. The LDS concept makes more sense to me. Consider my previous explanation of the trinity as an equivalence class. Thinking of God and Jesus made more sense to me in relating it to the virgin birth of Jesus. But, fundamentally to me, they are the same. To me it would be nit-picking to say one or the other group was not Christian based on their view of the trinity. I love your ministry and videos and will keep watching. Thanks.
These are awesome videos, and your message is a good one. It's so important that we find unity together as Christians especially as the Lord's Second Coming draws ever closer. Sorry, another slight correction from some of the others I see in the comments. 😅 Though Joseph Smith was lead to and translated the Book of Mormon through revelation, the Book of Mormon is a history compiled by Mormon who then gave it to his son who wrote the final book in the Book of Mormon and buried the plates. :) And, we do believe that Jesus Christ is God. But I understand the misunderstanding :)
Others have mentioned that Joseph's family believed him from the beginning. Also, Oliver Cowdery's name is pronounced how it's spelled "cow" rather than "call". Keep it up. I've just discovered you, and I think you're doing a great job!
As another commenter pointed out, we believe that Jesus IS God. "God" is an office, to which the Father /appointed/ the Son through what might be called a "divine investiture of authority". Almost every time the character of God appears in the Bible or Book of Mormon (or Doctrine and Covenants for that matter) that is the person of Jesus Christ. He was appointed by His Father to be the Creator, Mediator, and Redeemer of the world. I will be very interested in your impression of the Christology of the Book of Mormon itself, compared to your understanding of our current doctrine. The title page, which you zoomed in on a few times, declares Jesus to be "the Christ, the Eternal God". The BoM is full of sermons, but I'll point out a few chapters I find notable for their doctrine of Jesus and His mission: Jacob's sermon on the Atonement in 2 Nephi ch. 9&10 King Benjamin's Address in Mosiah ch. 2-5 Abinadi connecting Jesus Christ to the Law of Moses in Mosiah ch. 12-16 Mormon's sermon on Charity in Moroni ch. 7 Moroni's final admonition in Moroni ch. 10 and of course Jesus introducing Himself in 3 Nephi ch. 11. One of my favorite sound bites is in 2 Nephi ch. 2, which highlights how we connect the Creation and the Fall with the Atonement: "Adam fell that men might be, and men are that they might have joy; and the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that He may redeem the children of men from the fall."
Many others have already commented on the Trinitarian aspect of your comments. I just want to say Thank You for the respectful way you present the gospel that I love, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This another fine video, Sir.
I just got to say. I’ve heard many near death experiences where Christians saw god the father and god the son. Dean Braxton and Colton Burpo are some of the more well known ones. Have you read the book Heaven is for real?
I'm really enjoying these videos. I do feel a genuine feeling of wanting to know more about our church. I know your videos are short and you do your very best to gather as much info in a short presentation. Not an easy task. I would like to ask if you took the tours while you visited these church historical sites? Just curious. Lastly, not sure where you got the info to the effect we do not recognize Jesus as God. We believe in the Godhead as being God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghosts (Holy Spirit) In different passages from the Bible we read how Jesus prayed or taught how to pray unto His Father, He mentioned how He was one with Him and even said a few time He was one with them (his disciples) as He is one with the Father. We do believe in trinity we just believe in three different personages who are God. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there any other Christian denominations that think or teach something very similar? I think the genesis of our church is so interesting. There is much to learn and to enjoy with the tours. Also may I recommend the Sharon, VT church historical site. It goes hand in had with the Palmyra ones. I highly recommend it. I was raised a Baptist. I actually asked my parents to go to church when I was 5yo. I cherish many wonderful memories. Thank you so much for your efforts I see it as a bridge between us. I love how you do it with a great deal of respect! God bless you!
I went to Palmyra back in the 1970s, I left England to do what I called the Mormon Tour. I found it was very interesting, and the people who looked after all the sites and places were so nice and polite. Treasures every one of them... I went to Kirkland and ended up in Nauvoo, these sites get your mind working. *smile*
I’m genuinely curious. How do other Christians explain Matthew 3:17, after Jesus is baptized “And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son,whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” If they are the same being, who’s voice is coming from heaven calling Jesus his Son?
A small correction, Joseph's family did believe in his account, it was his pastor and other local people who didn't believe him, his father was very supportive from the start as he didn't support any organized religion at the time.
Major correction there is no account prior to 1832 . Nothing
I was going to note this same thing. It was his father and brother (neither had joined and organized religion at the time) to seek out the plates.
I was going to add this correction as well. His parents and siblings were very supportive of him and believed him. It was his pastor who was upset with him and did not believe.
@@Bazcole93 when you put together ALL the histories and not just the official written account of 1832 it is completely apparent that Joseph Smith’s family did believe it and that the people around him in the churches were persecuting him because they worried he would take away from their congregations. You have to read the Joseph Smith papers and all the history and not just out of context snippets.
false he went Metodists after the so called revilation. Whole thing dumb
Thank you Pastor Jeff! Love that you're taking us on your road trips.
Jesus in the Bible also maintains that the Father is greater than and distinct from Himself. We have a voice from heaven on at least three occasions. We have the vision of Stephen of Jesus standing on (or at) the right hand of God. We have Jesus' great prayer asking for us to become one in the way that He and the Father are one.
And we have the historical development of the trinitarian doctrine taking place long after the apostles were all dead.
My point is, acceptance of the Trinity makes a poor litmus test for whether someone is or is not "Christian."
We absolutely believe that Jesus is divine; that He is the embodiment of Jehovah of the Old Testament. We also hold, with himself, that He is not His own Father.
Their unity is of heart, mind, and will, not of numerical singularity.
I forgot about the Stephan scripture where he saw Jesus and the Father also! But same invite here Pastor Jeff - Pray to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ and ask him if he and Jesus are separate beings!
Hi Pastor Jeff. I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I'm very impressed with the special way you observe and give your comments of the things you are learning about our church. I appreciate the respectful way in which you present your observations. Joseph Smith was God's Prophet to restore Jesus' church after all Jesus' apostles were killed. The Book of Mormon is a "second" witness of Jesus Christ, along with the Bible. And as you read and study the Book of Mormon with an open heart, you will have a confirmation by the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true. What a wonderful blessing it is to us to have further revealed truth for our day. And we also have our prophet, President Russell M Nelson, and the many prophets before him, that testify of Jesus's teachings. They counsel us to continue to live better with the example of Jesus to guide us. Also having 12 Apostles' teachings helps our lives, thoughts and actions to be better and happier - giving us strength to continue to do what is right and share with others our happiness. You are so thoughtful and kind to share your experiences as you learn about Jesus's Church, it's members, and the good and great news we have to share with all the world. In this world, of so many distractions, it's wonderful to have the guidance of the Lord to help us have hope and strength to always continue forward - not being confused or afraid. We Are All God's Children and Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ love us very very much! I testify that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God! Our God, Heavenly Father, also lives! The Book of Mormon is the word of God and Joseph Smith was a true prophet . Bless you for the service that you give. You are in my prayers. Lovingly, your sister
The deity of the Latter Day Saint faith is not the God of Christianity.
@@ayodejiolowokere1076 if what you say is true, it is a damning indictment of so-called Christianity.
@@Empisee only if you were a monolatrist. Practice your religion, I'll practice mine.
I love these videos! Thank you!
One thing, Joseph's family was very supportive of him, infact his mom was the first person he told. You should read his mom's book about him.
Keep exploring, I love my religion, and love that you are taking the time and making the effort to learn about us!
Yeah they didn’t persecute him… maybe they didn’t believe him, but they supported him. What did you read that said they were unsupportive.?
I read Lucy Mack’s book in high school and it was wonderfully heartfelt and detailed. She loved her boy fiercely and supported him completely.
As for God & Jesus being 2 different entities, I’m not 💯 certain the Holy Trinity has any bearing on this quantitative issue.
Yes, God the Father, the Son, & the Holy Spirit are ONE.
I think the confusion might be in that God came to be born a son to Mary & Joseph in human form. When Jesus walked the earth, He did so as God in human form.
However, once Jesus died on the cross, the flesh of Him was destroyed & He lives in us today as the Holy Spirit.
I remember Mormons visiting my house as a kid, & please don’t take this wrong, but their approach & literature sort of scared me & just felt off. Now when I see drawings of Jesus & God together I get that same feeling & know immediately it has something to do with Mormon teaching.
By the same token, I’ve never focused on this being a point of argument or debate because --God is.
Years ago, I worked with what the secular world would call “a very religious person,” but she just knows the Bible, & we talked a lot about Bible stories & things of God. I had no idea what her denomination was, & I didn’t care, & I still don’t know! Her license plate said, “GOD IS”.
It took me a while, but then I got it. God is! He was, & He always will be! Praise be to our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ!
The Bible (God’s Word) says very clearly not to add or take away from it. The 10 Commandments say not to put any gods before God.
It hurts to think that a ‘Christian’ church does these very things. If the Bible is true (& it is, not bc I say so but bc God does) then it’s almost like blasphemy to read parts of it, ignore others & put another book before it. I don’t mean it rude, but the bom seems like a lot of biblical copying.
I can be wrong about things, but the Bible isn’t.
@@rOnda88 Thanks for your perspective.
I don't think of Christ's flesh as being destroyed on the cross. 3 days afterwards he visited the apostles as a resurrected being and told them to touch the wounds in his hands/feet/side. He ate fish with them. My perspective is that his body was not mortal anymore, but it was still flesh.
I LOVE the phrase "GOD IS" !! Similar to what Moses was told to call God (I Am).
I don't think the Bible claims it is final and no more can be written. For example, Moses said that in Deuteronomy 4-2, but John also said it in Revelation 22-18. Moses lived before John, so if he meant that his book was the last book, we would have to reject John's writings. I think we're misinterpreting the meaning. In reality, the Bible receives new translations from different Christian churches frequently (There are ~ 100 different English version of the Bible), and when scholars gain new information (like when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found), it BOTH gives us proof that the Bible is authentic scripture, but ALSO gives us proof that our current Bible has minor mistakes or missing parts in it. We actually know certain parts of the Bible were lost, because the Bible itself tells us that - For example, Joshua 10 verse 13 talks about a Book of Jasher, but no such book currently exists (it must have been lost/destroyed after Joshua was written). There are ~ 20 other similar examples. In fact, we only have 5 books from Christ's original 12 apostles, did the others not write anything, or were they lost? Not trying to argue with you, just my perspective.
Our intent is not to change the Bible or Christ's teachings. It's simply to clarify the parts that were lost.
Thanks so much for your perspective. Sorry you had a bad experience when the missionaries visited your house. I understand that perspective. We have a lot in common with other Christians, but some teachings that are different. There's definitely a culture shock. I moved to Mexico for a few months and it's super strange at first getting to know a new culture. We're human and we make mistakes. I hope any future interactions you have are better.
@@paitesmith9133 does Lucy's book speak of any visions taking place in the grove before the ones mentioned in the beginning of the book of Mormon where the angel shows up in his bedroom? I've been challenging members on the early dating of the first vision because there is nothing I can find as far as public documentation of it prior to the 1840 publication in the times and seasons. That smells of the whole thing being an afterthought. If Joseph told his family or the early church or pastors of other denominations, that he says persecuted him, nobody that I can find publicly documented anything about it for or against the reliability of it.
Hey Jeff, I’m an ex-Mormon from Germany and recently discovered your channel. I love and appreciate your open minded and respectful way of exploring this fascinating religion that is also an interesting phenomenon of American history. It’s really interesting for me to see these historic places in your videos because I haven’t been able to see them living in Germany. I am no longer religious, but still have a strong connection with what I now call my Higher Power. Also, my Mormon past has shaped me and my personality a lot and that’s why I still have the urge to explore this religion from a different perspective, trying to process and understand how this church influenced my life. There’s many positive aspects to Mormonism, as with many religious communities, but there’s many downsides, too. I love the peace that you radiate and you can tell that you are very firm in your world view so that you’re not afraid to see over the rim of your tea cup. Love your videos, keep up the great work and especially your respectful approach to it 😊💐! Greetings from Germany!
Hi Pia, that's an interesting story and i see a lot of myself in what you say. I was born in a Germany as well and have been raised in the LDS faith but subsequently turned away, moved country and through a lot of different things i looked at (science/scientism, more fringe things, other Religions, the whole Alien seeding theories to just consciousness as in the Universe or a "Higher Power" as you say coming to find Christ in his true biblical form and it's such a rewarding and interesting thing to experience your eyes opening and things finally falling into place that never made sense to me in LDS. For the first time i truly have a testimony, not just a "rehearsed" one, for the first time i have the urge to go out and tell the people around me about Jesus and for the first time, especially looking around the world and everything that has happened and is happening right now i truly feel a peace and calm in my heart because i know what he has planned for us and i know where i will be going so no matter what happens down here, it has no bearing on my soul.
I just thought i would share that with you, i wish you nothing but the best on your journey to hopefully finding to Christ at the end :)
I always feel sad for those who choose not to endure to the end because they felt the gospel to be too hard to live, or had questions they couldn't wait for Heavenly Father to give them the answer to. I'm reminded of Christ asking the apostles if they would leave him also and Peter said: To whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life. That's how I feel about Christ's church.
@@hrv4908 there's the blessed hope that the KJV bible teaches, the pre-trib rapture for the church so we don't have to endure all the say to the end, just to the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation period. It makes sense since Revelation says the only way to get "saved" will be by not denying Christ and i guess getting decapitated, not a pretty thing. As far as i know only very very very few people will live through the Tribulation and make it through without taking the mark nor having their heads chopped off so i really wouldn't be wanting to count on that so i am so glad God prepared a way for the Body of Christ to be in heaven for the duration of those 7 years.
@@onkelnighty The righteous need not fear. God is ultimately in control.
@@onkelnighty There is actually much more Biblical documentation that the Christian Church will be on earth up until The Bowls/Wrath of God is poured out. Trust in Jesus in all of life's circumstances, come what may. Being where He wants us is the very best place to be, no matter what or where.
Jeff, great video. As a Christian, I believe appreciating the wonders of our world is amazing and deserved. There are so many contributions the LDS church has made to the story of the US and contributed to around the world. While I do not belong to the LDS church, I share a passion for appreciating and understanding their faithfulness despite persecution from so many. You just got another subscriber here.
persecusion lol old us verses them mentality. You believe that rue? Look up Missouri war lasted month between Lds and peoole of State. I also need learn more about it. Could also have US involment by that time. Joseph fleed area because going hang his ass for war.
As I watch your videos, out of habit, I brace myself for something untrue or offensive to be said but you always seem to get it right. You are very respectful of our faith and I really appreciate your sincere desire to learn.
LOL I feel myself girding my loins too, but it never happens. He's too nice!
Except that this video is full of factually untrue statements
Hey Jeff, member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints here. Just want to say that I am impressed with your sincerity in researching the church. I love your motto "fight criticism with curiosity." I've been thinking about how I can do that more when I learn more about other religions. Thanks again! Liked and subscribed.
any time this pastor wants debate lol lets go
One of the coolest moments I had was experiencing the Sacred Grove at night. You're technically not supposed to according to a sign, but my family was in the temple and I was too young to accompany them, so I went on a little adventure. It was absolutely beautiful as the grove was lit with fire flies and as the only person in the grove it made the experience even more special…
Nice work Pastor Jeff!
Joseph translated the Book of Mormon-all 500+ pages, in 65 working days (not a couple of years-just one correction:-) when he was 23 yrs old.
Exactly! To add to this ruclips.net/video/7HJuEqg8Qg8/видео.html
Imaging 23 year olds today accomplishing a feat like that as well as all the literary, Hebraic, and other evidences found in the Book of Mormon. Yeah… not with his training… even the few years of schooling he took.
@@zionmama150 Did you know that not one of the prophecies that were made in the Book of Mormon......actually became true! The Book of Mormon said that Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. We all know that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Everyone knew in 1830 that Jesus was born in Bethlehem - so why would JS make that mistake??? There are many other examples where prophecies never happened or were completely wrong. How do you account for that??
@@kaywoolsey3722 oh that’s not true at all. All the Book of Mormon prophesies have happened. 3 Nephi 5, 16-30 have been taking place the last years especially. People just need to realize it and they don’t when they wrest the Spirit of the Lord and fail to repent of their sins in sincerity.
By the way, the Book of Mormon says Jesus was born in the other world. Jerusalem was referred to as a country area and not as a city only.
There is historical evidence specifically from the Dead Sea Scrolls that Jerusalem was referred to as the Land of Jerusalem, Bethlehem was only like a suburb of this encompassing “land of Jerusalem” if you actually read the Book of Mormon in it’s context you would understand that when it says that Jesus would be born at Jerusalem it’s talking about the “Land of Jerusalem” not the city of Jerusalem
I enjoyed the video; thanks for producing it! Lots of other LDS folks are offering a lot of useful supplements, but I’ll just add:
1) The Smith family was basically clearing old-growth forest, and the spot Joseph picked for his prayer was near where he had been working the previous day. In all likelihood the site of the first vision was thereafter clearcut and farmed until the church re-acquired the site a century later. The woods that are there now, are all later growth.
2) Smith, as you probably know, left several accounts of his first vision. The one that has most ingrained itself in LDS history is the one he wrote in 1838, where-with eighteen years of hindsight-he sees the event primarily in the context of the founding of a church with a membership in the thousands. His earliest accounts, though, emphasize the personal nature of the visit: Smith felt weighed down by his own sins and shortcomings in addition to the confusion and sins of the world, and came before God seeking a sort of absolution, which he got. In his earlier accounts, the injunction to not affiliate himself with other churches was almost a secondary consideration.
3) A lesser-known account of Joseph Smith states that during his first trip to Cumorah, he couldn’t help thinking that all of his family’s financial woes were now over; and that he was expressly prohibited from taking possession of the plates at that time because his mind was not yet wholly focused on the things of God.
4) I don’t think much translation was actually done at the Harris farm. Harris traveled to visit Smith in Pennsylvania and assisted with the work there (actually missing his own daughter’s wedding in the process, which in conjunction with the financial support he had been giving Smith, helps explain the pressures on Harris to placate his wife). Cowdery was a newcomer to the Palmyra area, arriving as a schoolteacher and boarding with the remaining Smith family after Joseph had relocated to Pennsylvania. He was sufficiently intrigued by their account of Joseph's activities that he eventually traveled to Pennsylvania to meet Smith in person and began assisting in the production of the Book of Mormon.
5) As a practicing Latter-day Saint I’m fine conceding that the idea of a physically distinct Father and Son is not *trinitarian* . But I would disagree with any suggestion that it’s not *biblical* . We all want to believe that our own pet theories and doctrines are perfectly “biblical”; but the fact is that the Bible is hideously opaque on this issue. The New Testament authors clearly see themselves as heirs to the Jews who proclaimed the shema as a rebuke against their pagan neighbors, but the NT authors *also* proclaim a Jesus who is the offspring of the Father, manifests Himself separately from but concurrently with the Father, talks to the Father in the second person, and talks about the Father in the third person. By the time John writes, he’s combating gnostics who openly assert that Jesus had no divine nature whatsoever; and it’s quite possible to read John not as alleging a complete identity between the Father and the Son, but merely as reiterating Jesus’s divine nature and origin and affirming that this is no mere man at the center of our worship. The notion of a "trinity" is largely a response to Jews (and later, Greeks) who said "look, it's kind of weird for you guys to run around claiming to worship a son of God who is Himself a God, and still insist that you're monotheists". The notion purportedly squares the circle (though, I would argue that it does it largely through blunt force rather than intellectual vigor or spiritual power: boldly declaring what the trinity is *not*, ascribing its incomprehensibility to divine mystery, and then condemning as heretics anyone who asks inconvenient questions). But the mere fact that a doctrinal innovation neatly resolves a theological puzzle does not make it _ per se _ biblical.
There are certainly good reasons for mainline Christians to take issue with the sort of Christology that developed under Joseph Smith’s ministry; but with his first vision account Smith is simply claiming to have seen Jesus standing at the right hand of God, just as Stephen did. It’s a little jarring to see that summarily dismissed as “unbiblical”.
Well said. They were all things I was thinking and I mentioned a bit of my perspective on your 5th point in a separate point. We do not deny the divinity of Christ just define his relationship to the Father a bit differently.
Thanks Jeff! I know that these videos will be great for people. When I was an Evangelical Christian learning about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I would have hugely appreciated this resource!
😃
@@TimothyFitch why would you say that? have you studied our doctrines? Attended our meetings?
Jeff, my friend, I have 2 things to say about this video. First, THANK YOU for the walk through the Grove. I'm not sure I'll ever make it to see for myself, so this was a nice virtual tour. THANK YOU!
Second, the testimony you give at the end, in expressing your beliefs and what you learned in this video, have me make chills and I definitely felt the spirit confirming your loving approach as a friend in Christ. I might have started crying if I weren't headed for work right now. Thank you for being not only open to learning, but also loving and generous in your teachings as you explain the differences to see in our faiths. You're awesome!
Christ did the Father's work on his Father's behalf. He never did his own thing. Why did Jesus called the temple His Father's House? if this pastor don't think they are two separate beings. Then why are the Apostles still going into the temple after Christ's death to worship God daily in the temple. Why are they still worshipping in his Father house after his death?. Paul knew the Father and Son were two separate beings. You cannot have the Son of God sitting on the right hand of the Father inheriting a crown of glory from the Father if hes the same entity.
For the Father God was also in the Beginning with the word (Christ). For it was the Father who had sent Christ, it was the Father who hadchosen Christ before being sent down to the earth. That heavenly council meeting is recorded in Revelations Chapter 5 of the Father God seated up on the throne choosing the Lamb of God to come out from among all the hosts of heaven for his earthly mission.
The Claims of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints are true. The Restoration of the Gospel did happen as foretold in Acts Chapter 3, Daniel and Rev 13:7. For the word of God was only going to remain sealed up until the end times, and after that the Famine of hearing the word of the Lord (that long dark period of apostasy will come to an end) through his servants the prophets God will again speak to man like they did in ancient times.. Prophets will be brought back again on the earth Amos 3:7. The Father and the Son physically are two separate beings but they are one with their wills spiritually. The One True God is the Godhead of God. That includes the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. All three members of the Godhead work together as one God in purpose and harmony and unity. There's no conflict when you understand that all three members of the Godhead act as a High Council of heaven aligned with the Father's Will and that is how God runs his kingdom through a High Council. This pastor needs to understand that God does not work all by himself all alone, God works together in councils
with others.
@@germanslice Let me ask you a question that has been disturbing me. Why does the LDS Church Organization have a policy that if you remove your name from the organization all your saving ordinances are revoked as if you never had them, including your Celestrial Marriage?
I also checked with the Temple and if someone died, but had their name removed then you can't just take that name to do the work for them. This places that person in the Telestrial Kingdom along with murders just for having your name removed from the organization.
This also places the belief in the LDS Organization above the belief in God. Even if someone continued attending church meetings, obeying the principles and ordinances of the gospel and lived a life of righteousness it wouldn't matter. The removal of your name from the organization becomes worse then murder and you lose all your glory.
This teaching destroys family units, breaks up Marriages, causes members to disown family members, and has even caused suicide.
@@stevenhenderson9005
The Lord answered the questions himself in The Doctrine and Covenants. As for Temple Marriage that is done down here on earth to be sealed up in heaven, Paul taught the family unit exists both down on earth and also up in heaven. Eph 3:15 There are no marriages performed up in heaven in the resurrection, for the marriages are performed down here on the earth for time only till death shall you part (outside of the temple), or for time and eternity (in the temple).
We don't just believe in just only a God of love and forgiveness and mercy, that is just some of God's Attributes but the full restored gospel teaches all of the attributes of God that God is also a God of Righteousness, and a God of Order and a God of Judgement and a God of Justice and also a God of Holiness and this is why God has set up judges of Israel to judge the saints with his own holy laws. The Lord has also said that in Zion shall be redeemed with judgement,and its converts with righteousness. Isaiah 1:27 So there will be judges of Israel in Zion. The righteous will also be busy also compiling the Book of Remembrance before the Lord containing all the Family History and Genealogy Malachi 3:16 which Malachi the prophet saw the saints of Zion doing.
For In order to have church membership and to enjoy its privileges and blessings, and to remain in good standing in Zion you must meet the requirements that the Lord has set for membership in his kingdom. For the Lord has rules in his Father's House and living a life of righteousness and walking before the Lord in holiness and being diligent in keeping his commandments to serve God with all your might,mind and strength is what's required from a God of righteousness if you want access to the tree of life. or you cannot get access to it if you don't do these things Rev 22.. The Lord has high expectations of his saints (Rev Chp 2 and 3 show this clearly with the Lord's rebuke of the seven churches in not doing all the right things that the Lord had asked of them to do and had fallen in to sin except for one group of saints who were still walking in righteousness before him..
The righteous are warned in Ezekiel Chapter 18 and 32 of how the Lord judges by our works by saying that if the righteous turn away from their righteousness and return back again to wickedness and never return back again to righteousness and altogether turn away therefrom then all their former righteousness they have done for the Lord shall not be remembered in the day of Judgement.
So it doesn't matter if the member has served the Lord all of their lives, if they don't endure to the end and altogether turn from their righteousness and never return back again to the Lord, then their former works of righteousness shall not remembered or mentioned. For the Lord has warned that God will not be mocked.
That's why its important to endure to the end in righteousness and be found choosing the right that the Lord has asked us to do.. ''Blessed is that servant that the Lord shall find him so doing'' That is why the wise virgins who continued choosing the right and persisting to do the right things were blessed, while the foolish virgins who had stopped buying the oil, and had stopped doing the right things and did not fill up their lamps when they were told to were not blessed with the same blessings.
Likewise the Lord has said that if the wicked shall turn away from their wickedness to righteousness and endure to the end in righteousness, then their former works of wickedness shall not be remembered.
So that is how the Lord judges.
@@germanslice I am worried about some of the things you are saying and it may be just something you do as a habit, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but you really shouldn't refer the organization as "The Gospel of Jesus Christ" or even "The Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ" The only reason I bring this up is not for debate, but in attempt to make sure we recognize the Organization as being separate from The Gospel of Jesus Christ. I actually have a fear that members of the LDS Organization put more focus on the organization more than they do on God.
There seams to be this idea that if you remove your name from the organization that some how that is a rejection of God and by doing so makes you succumb to the powers of Satan to live in unrighteousness. The whole idea of a policy being in place that says the removal of your name causes all your saving ordinances to be revoked is not in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ and leads people to the worship of the organization, which in turn causes people to shame or disown family members that have removed their name and is a very dangerous teaching.
Some members actually think that if they break their covenants or remove their name from the organization that somehow a sealing is removed or revoked. However there is only one major sin that can be committed that would revoke your Celestrial Marriage and it was revealed to Joseph Smith in July of 1843.
"those who are married by the power and authority of the Priesthood in this life, and continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost, will continue to increase and have children in the celestial glory."
Here is the revelation directly from the Joseph Smith papers.
"Saith the Lord God, And again verily I Say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word which is my law, and by the new and everlasting Covenant and it is Sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise by him who is anointed unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood and it Shall be Said unto them ye Shall Come forth in the first resurrection and if it be after the first resurrection in the next resurection and Shall inherit thrones Kingdoms principalites and powers dominions all heighth and depths then Shall it be written in the Lambs book of life that he Shall Commit no murder whereby to Shed blood innocent blood and if ye abide in my Covenant and Commit no murder whereby to Shed innocent blood it Shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my Servent hath put upon them, in time and through all Eternity, and Shall be of full force when they are out of the world and they Shall pass by the angels and the Gods which are Set there to their exaltation and Glory in all things as hath been Sealed upon their heads which glory Shall be a fullness and a Continuation of the Seeds for ever and ever. Then Shall they be Gods, because they have no End."
What is the sin that is committed by removing your name from the organization?
And where is the doctrine that teaches this?
I can't find any doctrine that backs up this policy that the LDS Organization has in place about someone removing their name.
I know you place the argument that has to do with the Temple and ordinances, but the reality is that all these ordinances were being performed out of the Temple before Joseph Smith died and over 11,000 baptisms for the dead were performed in the Mississippi River and the only reason Joseph stopped it is because there wasn't any good record keeping happening and Joseph figured they could do a better job recording it if it was done in the Temple. Marriage sealings in the Temple didn't start until 1890, about 60 years after the organization of the church. To say that sealings have to be performed in the Temple to be valid would cause a lot of problems especially to Joseph Smith who was never sealed to anyone in the temple.
It also makes me wonder if the church is trying to place people that have their names removed into Outer Darkness by classifying it as a rejection of the Holy Ghost.
This is an interesting thought because Brigham Young seamed to believe that members that left the church would be considered apostates and lose salvation and that the only way they could be saved is if they atonened for their own sins by having their throats cut and blood spilt upon the ground.
"This is loving our neighbour as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it. Any of you who understand the principles of eternity, if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind."
What I find really problematic is that a new convert coming into the LDS Organization doesn't realize that if they don't join the LDS Organization then all the work will be done for them so they can obtain the highest level of the Celestrial Kingdom, but if they join the LDS Organization, obtain all their covenants, then decide to leave, then they are lost to the lowest Kingdom and will not have an opportunity to accept it later. You can come in but you can't get out.
So show me the doctrine that teaches if you remove your name from the organization then you will lose all your saving ordinances?
What sin has been committed?
If someone removes their name from the church it doesn't mean they have to stop going to church, taking the sacrament, or being involved just like a regular member. (Lots of non-members regularly attend the LDS ward with their family that are members and are even involved).
@@stevenhenderson9005 The Father can do what he wills to be done in his own kingdom through his prophets. The Church is the Father's Kingdom here upon this earth. You cannot establish your own counsel above that of the Lord's anointed servants, It is not your place to try to counsel the Lord. For Elohim is not a guy that will be counseled by anyone outside the established counsels of the Church or told what to do in his own kingdom or told how he should govern his own children...You don't hold the keys of the kingdom. The prophet hold the keys of the kingdom.
Those who took upon themselves the oath and covenant of the priesthood and altogether turn thereof and never return back to their covenants break the oath and covenant. The Doctrine and Covenants is very clear on the eternal consequences of not enduring to the end.
For Elohim does not tolerate rebellion in any shape or form.Obedience is the main law that's in his kingdom so . If you rise up in rebellion to establish your own counsel above that of the prophet then you run the risk of going into apostasy. That's why Paul,Jude, Peter and all other apostles warned the backsliding saints of the danger of going down into Perdition if they don't turn back from their apostasy. So yes apostasy (failing to endure to the end in righteousness) from the Lord is a serious thing. For God does not play any games. .As we saw God was not playing any games when he punished the five foolish virgins for abandoning their Covenant Responsibilities to Him and to His Father that they had entered into and cast them into outer darkness. Wise were the Virgins who were found still keeping their covenants and walking in obedience before God.
I'm an LDS Bishop in Rochester, NY. I wish I knew you were here - I'd love to meet and chat! Great video - looking forward to watching more!
Maybe you could correct me wrong, being so close, I'm aware of an ELMIRA I was born in Herkimer new york. Is this different or is this a mistake calling it PALMIRA I aught to know, iwas born in Herkimer new york I only know of ELMIRA not PALMIRA where is the misrepresentation?
I very much appreciate your respectful and entertaining approach to all of us.
The only thing I would point out, is that Josephs Family did believe that he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ. They didn't persecute him, or even question him directly on what he saw. Everyone in Josephs family had respect for him, and knew he was different, especially at his age. Joseph Smith Grandfather Asael Smith said that “he always knew that God was going to raise up some branch of his family to be a great benefit to mankind” (“Joseph Smith’s New England Heritage,”)
Very true. I don't recall him ever being persecuted by his family. For the most part they were supportive. His father Joseph Sr. never felt like any of the churches around him were right, but he was baptized in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Prophet’s mother, Lucy Mack Smith, recalled: “Joseph stood on the shore when his father came out of the water, and as he took him by the hand he cried out, ‘… I have lived to see my father baptized into the true church of Jesus Christ,’ and he covered his face in his father’s bosom and wept aloud for joy as did Joseph of old when he beheld his father coming up into the land of Egypt.”
Hello again! I wanted to add a couple things but after writing my response and refreshing the page, I found that others had already addressed the same things I had in mind. If you care to read still, my comments are below:
1) Joseph's family supported him, but he did receive a lot of persecution from townspeople and local pastors. I wonder where you read that they persecuted him?
2) You mention that Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery finished the translation of the Book of Mormon in a couple years. It is actually recorded that it took less than three months for Joseph to complete the translation. For those looking for temporal evidence of the Book of Mormon's truthfulness, the fact that he translated such a large volume of scripture, with complex narrative structures, voices, ideas, etc. in such a short amount of time with little formal education demonstrates that he was given spiritual gifts from God to complete the work (though LDS members ALWAYS seek the witness of the Spirit of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon--and the Bible--above other evidence.)
3) You said that LDS members don't believe Jesus is God. We do believe Jesus is God. We believe in the idea of a Godhead--the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, who all have that status but are separate beings. We believe Jesus is Jehovah the God of the Old Testament, that he came down in the flesh as the only begotten of the Father and the Son of God. I think what you were getting at is, LDS members don't believe in traditional Christian belief of the trinity with the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost being separate persons but one being. LDS members believe in separate beings, but one in mission and purpose. For biblical support, we often look at Christ's baptism to support this idea (Matthew 3:16-17). Christ is baptized. The Spirit comes, symbolized by the dove. And God the Father's voice is heard from heaven. We feel this shows three separate, distinct beings who are all part of the godhead.
Edit to include this question: How do other Christian traditions understand those verses in Matthew?
@David Munk I’ll try to answer your question regarding Matthew 3:16-17 from an evangelical perspective. I actually think we see these verses in a very similar way as you do in that we see the three distinct members of the Godhead. The difference is that we are monotheists-we believe that the Bible teaches there is only one true God.
Maybe it would help to give a definition of the Trinity. Theologian Wayne Grudem defines the Trinity as follows: _God eternally exists as three persons, Father , Son , and Holy Spirit, and each person is fully God, and there is one God._ Or as James White has written, _Within the one Being that is God, there exists eternally three coequal and coeternal persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit._
Notice the distinction between “being” and “person.” Since there is no other being like God, it is hard to come up with language that describes him that doesn’t come with baggage. For example, both definitions given above speak of “persons.” But that word brings with it the idea of finite humans who are themselves each single _beings._ In that sense, the word has its limitations. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are persons, at least in part, in that they are distinct and have an eternal me-you relationship with each other.
It seems to me that Latter Day Saints often confuse Trinitarianism with Modalism, which basically states that God manifests himself singularly in different modes (Father, Son, or Holy Spirit) at different times. I would say that Modalism definitely has a huge problem with passages like the one in Matthew you mentioned.
Finally, there is one other thing that seems to muddy the waters when Latter Day Saints (and many others!) try to understand what we believe about the Trinity when looking at the Bible, and that is the two natures of Christ. While we believe that God is a spirit _being_ and not human, one _person_ of the Godhead (the Son) took on a _second_ nature at the incarnation. Since then, Jesus will forever have two natures: deity and humanity.
Although you obviously didn’t address your question to me, I appreciate that you asked it. I think it is good that we try to understand each other. I have been working at trying to understand what Latter Day Saints believe for the past three years.
@David Bell If what you just said about the Trinity is true, you need to be educating your fellow Christians, because what you describe isn't what they do. They literally describe one creature with three faces.
@@timothywerner8819 Not any Christians I've ever known in my 67 years! 😄
Also Christains dont believe the same way Christ was conceived.
Regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint view of Jesus, I would strongly recommend reading the book Jesus the Christ, written by the apostle James E. Talmage in the temple. He explores the Savior's life and mission as recorded in scripture by ancient and modern prophets and apostles. I love especially his explanation why the Lord referred to himself as the Son of Man, as God the Father is an exalted, holy, perfect man. As Jesus is His son born into mortality with a physical body subject to hunger, thirst, fatigue, and even death, Jesus is also a man, a "man of sorrows" as Isaiah put it, yet He is also Jehovah, God the Son, resurrected in immortal glory. Paul promised that we could be joint heirs of all that the Savior received of his Father. That promise shows that yes, all of God's children can aspire to godhood, and also that God the Father is separate from God the Son, as it is hard to be an heir to yourself.
I wanted to add cause I love to talk about this subject. Many early church fathers spoke respectfully of the concept of divinity of man and man's potential to receive godhood. There is however a concern in the understanding of the word God between Mainstream Christians and LDS. God is described in the Bible as power and authority declaring that judges are these identities of power and authority and that other heavenly beings are labelled with this same power and authority. Even someone described as mighty when wrestling uses the word God which the English translation removes to bring some sort of clarity to English speakers but it is a plain and precious thing removed from the English Bible.
I second the invitation to read, Jesus the Christ. I’ve read it a couple times and need to read it again. It’s an amazing read!
I've never been able to visit NY and this was so fun for me a LDS to watch this and imagine seeing them myself. It really is awesome how respectful you were to these sacred spots and weren't critical of any of the truth claims of the LDS church. I love that you can defend your own beliefs without using criticism and harshness. Bravo. I , for one, believe FIRMLY that you and I worship the same Lord Jesus Christ who died for both of us and for everyone who has ever lived.
"Not to stir up the spirit of contention." 🙂 Man, you're speaking our language there. I'm so impressed by how much leg work you must have put in to understand the LDS before even starting these videos, and how hard you're trying to respect LDS culture. Thanks for your efforts and your respectfulness and for the helpful compare / contrast.
WOW! I'm starting to love your channel more and more! As a former LDS missionary that served in the Bible Belt, I feel like I did what you're doing now, but sort of the opposite. Your videos are fun and entertaining. Not 100% accurate, but you're new and your intentions feel pure. I have been apprehensive of the moments where you point out the parts where we doctrinally split paths, but so far, those are my favorite parts. You aren't dropping bombs. You are honest in your disagreement, but aren't about proving anyone false. I love that. Every time you do this, pointing out where ideally the LDS Church might be doctrinally wrong, I'm thinking to myself, "there's a biblical reason for that too! You'll find it." Thank you for doing this. Keep going!
Good video, here are some clarifications/corrections.
1. If I remember correctly the Moroni vision was a few years after the first vision and was only that one night.
2. About men and angels, you touched on this, I Just want to make it clear that we believe men (and women of course) are angels and vice versa. Angels are humans and humans are Angels. Same species.
3. If I recall correctly when Joseph Smith went to the Hill every year, Moroni taught him various things to prepare him to take the plates, it wasn't just that it wasn't time yet.
4. Joseph and Oliver Finished The Book of Mormon in a couple of Months, not years. (85 days to be exact)
5. We do believe Jesus is God, he is just not God the Father. The appearance of both (the Father and the Son) side by side doesn't contradict mainstream trinitarianism, if it did the Bible would prove the mainstream idea of trinitarianism as a falsehood. This isn't to say we are trinitarian in Athanasian/Nicene way, because we aren't, but to say we believe that Jesus Christ isn't God is a mistake. We are technically Social Trinitarians, though we often mistakenly claim to be nontrinitarian.
I want to thank you. I don't need people to convert, though in my mind that would be wonderful. But I do need people to understand, and treat me as a valid human being. And you do that wonderfully. I appreciate that.
Being an ex catholic and a Latter Day Saint for the last 47 years there are over a 100 reasons why I became a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter Day Saints while I lived in Italy. The major reason was the appearance of God the Father and His son Jesus Christ to the 14 year old boy Joseph Smith in the sacred Grove in Palmyra New York , which forever changed the face of Christianity by destroying the myth of the mystery of the trinity. Three separate Gods the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost. This is in conformity with the Bible and is not non- biblical . Jesus prayed to the Father of us all, this makes complete sense otherwise He prayed to himself which is absurd. Sure Jesus said "I and the Father are one" but he also said " You and I are one as the Father and I are one" which makes it crystal clear that You meaning us are not part of the Godhead but that Jesus and the Father are one in purpose and He always did the will of the Father not His own will. At His baptism by John the Baptist the Father spoke from heaven and said "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." Was Jesus talking to himself and being a ventriloquist? Of course not this is obvious. So it took a 14 year old boy to forever turn Christianity upside down and forever destroy the myth of the 3 in 1 God. Now I speak to the world as an ordinary member of His Restored Church. Now you see one of a hundred reasons why THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST had to be restored because without God having spoken to a prophet for centuries, the world was in darkness, not even knowing who He really is . There were churches, the Catholics and then the justifiable Reformation which paved the way for the complete Restoration of the truths that were lost after the death of the ancient apostles, with a renewal of modern prophets and apostles to lead mankind back to the light after centuries of darkness in 1820. Let's ask ourselves this question? Do we need God's intervention right now with the misery and wickedness that is destroying our world? A loving God would not leave His children in despair without revealing Himself through living Prophets and apostles. Would He? So now you know while I believe in the Bible and continuing revelation such as The Book of Mormon and The Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price, first and foremost I follow and keep my eye on the living oracles such as prophets and apostles in His Church that He restored, that He Named, that He is the Head of THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS.
Yes, mysteries are what we hope to know more about. They are not meant to remain mysteries.
1800 years for the real church despite saying hell will never prevail over it and will last forever
Thank you for doing what you are doing as a non LDS member you are showing others in a very non judgemental way truths about the start of the LDS church. You are doing a very good job. The only error I have caught so far is that it didn't take 2 years to translate plates from start to finish. Once the translation started it was done ✅ in approximately 60+ days. The exact number escapes my memory at the moment. I am certainly enjoying your time and effort and non judgemental ways of taking this journey.
But many experts in their fields and videos etc all say reformed egyptian doesn't nor has ever existed.
Is it going to be the last comment I leave so coming up shortly in this October is going to be our semi and our general conference The whole leadership of the church gets together for a meeting and they direct and teach the whole church The meaning takes a whole Saturday and whole Sunday. I'm asking you Jeff if you watch it with us. You won't be able to use any of the footage of general conference because it's protected but I want to see what your takeaway from it is.
Thank you for the video Jeff! I love The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It has blessed my life in every way since I joined. I know for myself that it is the True and Living Church, even the same that He established in times of old, when he gave power and authority to his Apostles.
Why are there so many Christian denominations? The Book of Mormon addresses this: “And it came to pass that…there were many churches in the land; yea, there were many churches which professed to know the Christ, and yet they did deny the more parts of his gospel, insomuch that they did receive all manner of wickedness…” (4 Nephi 1: 27) “He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.” (2 Nephi 26: 29)
The First Vision helps us better understand the Bible. Why?
In the Sacred Grove, we’re reminded of God declaring “Let us make man in OUR image.” (Gen 1: 26) After the fourteen year old Joseph was consumed by darkness and saved by light, the Sacred Grove reminds us of when the Lord said “man is become as one of US, to know good and evil…” (Gen 3: 22)
The sacred grove reminds us of when in the Garden of Gethsemene while Jesus paid the ultimate price for our sins, He prayed “not as I will, but as thou wilt.” (Matthew 26:39) In the Sacred Grove Christ was on the right hand of His Father, like it speaks about so many times in the Bible. In the Sacred Grove, The Father introduces His Beloved Son, in a similar way as He did several times in the Bible. In the Sacred Grove we’re reminded that Christ has ascended to BE WITH His Father. ‘I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God.’ (John 20:17) In the Sacred Grove we’re reminded of Christ’s resurrection to a glorified body. “Handle me and see, for a Spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have.” ("I saw two *personages") In the Sacred Grove we’re reminded of the resurrected Christ telling Mary at the tomb, “touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father.” because He was not yet with His Father.
In the Sacred Grove we’re once again reminded that He is WITH His Father. A plain and simple truth lost in The Great Apostasy. Because of the First Vision, we have a better understanding of His gospel and the nature of families. Does not Jesus being reunited with His Father imply family itself? The Bible teaches that the righteous will be heirs and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ, as sons and daughters does it not? If sons and daughters of God, then we are members of the family of God. This is the hope we have in God our Father. O how great is his love for his children!
“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:” (Romans 1:20) Angels appear to men once again, like they did in the Bible, teaching the SAME gospel. A prophet, called by God Himself, after a time of apostasy, just like we read about in the Bible. For He is the same God yesterday, today, and forever. Living prophets speak to God once again, like they did in times past.
“Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth? Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also." (2 Nephi 29: 7-8)
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one God, in purpose. Christ himself taught to pray to the Father, in His name. Look at John chapter one in a different way here: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God. That same was in the beginning WITH God.“ We believe as Latter-day Saints that the Father has handed over all things to His son, that through Him and by Him (Jesus Christ) the worlds were made. (Hebrews 1: 2) He has overcome all things. He is our personal Savior and creator.
Follow Moroni’s promise to read the Book of Mormon. You would then know that the book describes Christ as the Father of this world. ”Teach them that redemption cometh through Christ the Lord, who is the very Eternal Father. Amen." (Mosiah 16: 15) Then, in humility the Almighty God of Heaven and Earth appeared to the Nephites and declared: “Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name.” (3 Nephi 9: 15)
I know these things to be true.
-Sean
Thank you so much! I am so glad there was someone who could say it better than me.
Thank you Sean! As the other person said, you explained the Gospel so much better than I could! God bless you brother! Greetings from a Welsh Saint. 🏴
Very thorough! Pastor Jeffrey, I really do love your videos and your honesty, helping us understand your understanding of Christ and the gospel. I hope you will not be offended by Sean's comments, but he has a beautiful testimony and understanding of this gospel and our Savior. I'm sure he just wants to help you understand something's that seem to elude you. I find your journey fascinating! But I see where you are missing some very important principles of the gospel.
Saludos!! De un Santo de Chile.
Thanks for that explanation of what was missing in the video. Some things elude the pastor and an explanation was needed.
Keep it up. Love how genuine you are about things. Both what the LDS Church says, and how you actually feel about it.
The reason mainstream Christianity doesn’t recognize the LDS faith as a Christian denomination is based wholly on the Nicene Creed. There are many Christian churches that accept and preach non-trinitarian concepts as part of their religious teachings. The divinity of God is certain… but the nature of God is only accepted by the way the Nicene Creed interprets the Bible. Mainstream Christianity embraces that creed and refuses to consider any circumstances in language or interpretations that may have existed during the time the Nicene Creed was constructed. They just accept it based on tradition, not necessarily on truthfulness. Many denominations don’t consider the Nicene Creed canonized scripture so to consider that it’s not open to interpretation is why most Christians don’t even bother understanding what’s included. They just accept the interpretation bc they’ve been taught to, and leave the critical thinking to someone else.
I visited September 21 - the grove was full of green leafed trees! Such beauty and silence in the grove that day overwhelmed me!
Great video Jeff. Love the quality and respect. One correction is that his parents did believe him. They knew him to be honest and trusted and supported him from the beginning.
Joseph’s family immediately believed him, because they knew the person he was.
Thank you Pastor. I love this video. I am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints. Thank you for being a friend to us!
Yes there are some pretty big differences. Just thought I'd let you know I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I didn't find your explanation confrontational or demeaning at all. There's just one thing I'll disagree with you say that our belief is not what The Bible taught. I will say The Bible can be interpreted many different ways which is one reason there are so many Churches claiming that they are the right one.
I just came across this video. If Christ is God than who is Christ praying to in the Bible? Christ can’t be praying to himself can he? I hear Christ talks about his Father a lot & I don’t think he would be talking to himself. Just take that Scripture he quotes out of the equation & it makes total sence that there is indeed two separate personages. You have to take into consideration other parts from the Bible because just that one scripture alone can be confusing. I know the Bible has been translated a few different times & it’s 100% not all there. One quote of Scripture is not going to convince me what this guy is saying is true because it doesn’t make since from the rest of the teachings in the Bible. Joseph Smith might be on to something here & I want to know more.
@@danascully7358 It’s like that thing we did in school to say something to one person where it gets passed down & when the last person says it to the class it’s different.
There’s different versions of the Bible where things got added & taken away. Also one scripture verse isn’t going to mean the same for everyone else.
Well, there's a lot more to talk about right there. I hope Pastor Jeff will pick up on that in a future video. Grace to you.
@@smileysun9212 that's exactly right.
I’m thinking the word is with God & through His son Jesus Christ is how we receive that word. That word is the same if it’s through the Father or the Son making it the same word that comes from God the Father who is creator of our spirits. Christ is God of this World that he created. & it’s through him how we get to the Father. Christ made man in the flesh while the Father created spirits to dwell in those bodies. Dosen’t a man & woman become one flesh when married? They became one to create life but they are two different individuals. The Father & Son are two separate beings but it’s the Word of God that is the same & it’s through Christ how we get to the Father. I know a lot of people prays differently & I’ve been praying to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. Compare the Father & the Son to President & Vice President. Isn’t it the same Presidency? If Christ is the God & the Father then who is Christ praying too if there’s no other Gods before him. This is the impression when I read the Bible that there is God the Father & His son that shares the same word. If this isn’t the right answer get on your knees & pray to know the truth. I’ll take that challenge to see what God teaches me because I only follow the Father through Jesus Christ. Christ is the way & light. I don’t need a book that isn’t all there or someone to tell me there’s a God. I don’t pay anyone to teach me & did Christ get paid for his teachings?
Joseph Smith’s parents didn’t chastise him! They supported him. The family always read the scriptures and knew Joseph to be an honest boy! Come on Pastor Jeff, you’ve been doing great on most of the videos! 😀
True comment... thank you!!!
Hello from Colombia. It is very surprise that a Chrisitian Pastor dedicate time for knowing the LDS Church , history and Doctrines. You must have an open mind to do this. I hope you continue with theses videos. In the Church exist abundance oh knowledge. You will find many spaecial things even many wich we member do not know in foreign countries.
Jeff you are living my dream by traveling and seeing all of the LDS historic sites!
I am LDS and a few years ago my husband ( a convert) and I had the wonderful opportunity to go to the scared grove. It was in the summer time so the grove was full of green foliage and the trees were green.
It was quite and peaceful so the bowed my head and prayed.. I thanked the Father first , for the opportunity of being there in the grove. Second, I asked for myself if Joseph Smith truly seen and communicated with God, the Father and His son Jesus Christ. My answer was YES!! I will never forget the love, peace, and comfort I felt there. God loves ALL of his children from the beginning of time throughout all eternity. May Heavenly Father continue to bless you on your journey.
Pastor Jeff - You do a phenomenal job! You make content creation seem easy. I can only imagine the prayer and the blood, sweat and tears that truly go into each of these.
I am more than a fan of yours. I fully believe you are called of God. I believe you are prone toward, if not actually given as a spiritual gift by God, the power of discernment of truth and error.
As such…
Think on these accounts:
“Two personages…”
“One of them spoke to me, calling me by name…”
“… and said, pointing to the other-This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!”
I understand the controversy of these statements. God visiting Him? A personage? No, two of them. Who knew the young boy’s name?
I’m trying to envision him as a content creator at the age of 14, and his intent to differentiate some kind of unique message with such an account. How after being confused with religion he would choose to concoct such an account. Was it to take on the concept of the Trinity? Particularly where history shows this account would only add to his confusion and complicate his life in the next years. But also add to his conviction and calmness, as if assured by it. As if he truly experienced it.
Any self serving cult leader would have to be extremely cunning, and not only that be possessed of the adversary to differentiate the message of Jesus Christ from mainstream Christianity. And start into this business at such an early age?
To accuse Joseph Smith as being a charlatan and cult leader with this kind of start, with the ultimate end game being increases power and widespread philandering is like accusing the boy David of killing Goliath and rising in power for the ultimate end game of being with Bathsheba and having multiple wives.
The fascination to me is that this confusion became his reputation as a young man. This one account, knowing he told it multiple ways. For many years. With family, friends and enemies. And there was no self-serving agenda. Only confusion. Confusion which lasted for years as you have read in Rough Stone Rolling.
This continued. This confusion, this lack of maturity until he was ready to do what he was commanded to do. Only then he became empowered. Only then the work expanded.
When you finally read the Book of Mormon you will know it came from God. Not by the writings alone. But from the conviction of the Holy Spirit. I pray that you let it in, knowing it would change your life in difficult ways if you did. But God would see you through if you let it in.
As you read it…. What man could write that in 90 days? Consider…. He had witnesses, his translators, with him through the entire process. There was no manuscripts that suddenly appeared with some claim of origination. Even those translators, who ultimately denounced Joseph, did not denounce the Divine intervention that took place in that process of how it came about.
He didn’t roll into town one day with a story. He lived it, locally. Until they drove him out. And he was persecuted through out. With others looking on. He never made money. All of his business efforts failed. He ran a store and it failed because he was prone to not collecting payment and giving to those in need. A pretty poor cult leader in any right.
There is no need to worship Joseph Smith. Particularly as a master content creator. Only to be grateful for his contributions, despite his lack of education. With the same kind of character traits and convictions as those Jesus Christ called - Peter, James, John etc. Obedience, strength, humility but boldness in defense.
Arthur Henry King said: “The beautiful, well-balanced prose of Joseph Smith’s writings is the work of someone bending all his faculties, under inspiration, to expressing eternal truth.” Why? Because most of what is attributed to have been written by Joseph Smith was not actually written by Joseph Smith. Those who do not believe ancient prophets wrote the Book of Mormon unfairly put all of their words as Joseph’s. Certainly his own writings hold this same conviction but it is mostly his translations and transcription of his revelation that others attribute to him.
Imagine today if a young man posted that he has been visited by God. Imagine the reception he would receive. Imagine if decades later he was still relevant and being talked about? Because he offered up what he called proof of that. Or hundreds of years later. Because more and more proof came about. He would have to be master content creator from that point on. Producing point after point and work after work. Such would either be possessed of God, or the adversary. There is no in between. No one is that talented to make it up on their own without some kind of intervention of some supernatural power source.
If the Book of Mormon is real then Joseph Smith is a prophet. If it is of God you can know by any other way that you know if anything else is true. But to know you have to read it with the intent of wanting to know if it is of God.
The Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ. And not a work of Joseph Smith but one of ancient prophets. It’s the tale of failed civilizations and why they failed. With the intent to show, in our modern times, what God will and will not allow. All in leading toward His Second Coming. To help those in these times follow Him and have comfort and better understand. And to know what to avoid. It is about the power of prosperity that is promised to those that keep the Commandments given by Christ Himself and the result of when a nations/societies/countries becomes excessively prideful, their laws become corrupt and God can no longer sustain His works without a mass humbling. It is as relevant today, if not more so, than when it was first published. With accounts and themes that are relevant today. And could not be attributed toward any visionary content creation of his 1820 frame of political reference
What if it is false? If it is. It came from Joseph. And if it is false then it begs the question - Why would Joseph choose this way to differentiate mainstream Christianity in an attempt to get gain?
What if it is true?
If it’s true, it came from God. So then your argument of it not being representative of Mainstream Christianity is true. But for a different reason than you may have considered. That becomes the entire point.
One thing is true… It is different from mainstream Christianity. You have proven this with your videos.
May God bless you! I pray for your ministry and your well being.
Great videos, love the respect. The one hang up I had is that members of the Church DO BELIEVE that Jesus Christ is God. I'd suggest researching beliefs about the Godhead in the Church.
But moreover, I'd research about the impact in people's lives that live the Church's teachings. I'd research what prophets and apostles say about the power of covenants and ordinances (not just 'rituals' as they've been referenced). And I'd look at how the Church is trying to fulfill Christ's call to serve others and help all children of God return to Him.
We love visiting Palmyra, and visited when our own son Joseph was 14, the same age Joseph Smith was during the First Vision. Beautiful place.
I never really thought about point about Angels possibly being resurrected men that you brought up. Thanks for pointing that out. Actually that confirms my faith in modern day revelation. But you are very observant to notice that. Love your videos and I love you for fighting criticism with curiosity. Makes me want to be more curious and respectful about where your beliefs come from.
I think it is important to say that the bible says a lot about angels, but it never explains exactly what they are, and it is also obvious that there are different types of angels. Elijah and Moses came to Jesus in the Mount of Transfiguration and we consider them to be angels. At the end of the day we know that some angels come in a form that is distinctly alien and strange. We also know that some angels come in the form of men with no wings or anything of the like. There is so much variation that the most we can glean is that Angels are messengers and servants of God. Perhaps that is the only quality that bind all angels in the bible together.
I guess to add to this we also know that angels are beings that can choose as we know there are fallen angels.
As a Christian believer, and not a member of the Latter Day Saints Church-thank you so much or doing the research and sharing! I have dear friends who are members of the LDS church and this helps me understand what goes into being apart of their life and culture. I will be sharing and recommending your channel to anyone who wants to learn more! Thank you for explaining in a very respectful way!
I enjoy your videos. It’s refreshing to see someone take an open minded yet critical eye approach to learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS without the spirit of contention.
Very rare to see.
I’m really enjoying watching all of the videos here on your channel. I’m not too far in to this video but something I’m hoping you’ll consider doing is explaining more how you feel in these places. The thoughts going through your head and just your emotions while you’re there.
Also, with Martin Harris. As far as I’m aware he was loved by Joseph Smith and was extremely helpful in expanding the church. After Martin and Joseph had translated the first book in the Book of Mormon, Martin wanted to show his wife. Joseph prayed and asked if this was okay, the answer he received was no. After 2 more times of asking, Heavenly Father ended up saying fine (not because his answer changed but because it was their choice to listen or not). Martin took the plates and lost them/they got stolen. Joseph was distraught knowing he should have listened to the Lord. But him and Martin stayed close and were still friends. Those pages were also not retranslated and we don’t have those pages in the Book of Mormon.
I'm also a Christian pastor. I appreciate the way you are dealing with this subject matter. You do it with a great deal of grace and humility and yet your insight in many things are to be commended. Your statement, though, that we don't see an angel who was once a man, Rev. 22:9 says of the angel who was speaking with John, "Then he said to me, 'See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.'” Bless you in your work.
Thank you for being respectful. May God send blessings your way.
It shouldn’t be hard to believe.. As a member of the Church of JesusChist of latter-saints we believe in the trinity being as follows” God the Father, Jesus Christ the son, and the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit which ever u feel calling! In the New Testament Jesus says he is here to do the will of his father.. with that being said is not hard to believe that Joseph Smith did saw two personages when he prayed.
When you narrated the history of the church I felt that spirit again confirming the truth I believe in about the restored gospel. Thanks for you open mind and respect.
I live in Utah and I appreciate these videos where you go to the actual sites. I am not Mormon but am surrounded by them here in Utah. I wish you would do the same research into Catholicism. I love your approach, you are not judgmental and don't just try to debate the faith or the doctrines too much. You do a great job of entering it with an open mind and share the information in a respectful way. For this reason I would love to see a video series on Catholicism from a Protestants point of view. Although, travel to those locations won't be in the U.S. Thank you for the time and energy it takes to make the videos.
Pastor Jeff can explain everything he needs to know about Catholicism without having to travel to any place other than Rome. 😊
One thing I believe as a Catholic is that the people are the Church. That's why so many Catholics as well as non-Catholics were appalled by the sex abuse scandals in the Church, and why Catholics feel free to disagree with the Vatican on issues such as female priests or divorce. WHen I say that the people are the Church, I mean that the pope and the priests ar ethe keepers of Church doctrine and Church teachings, but they are servants of the Church, and they serve the people. Nowhere was that more apparent than in the 1980s, when Pope John Paul II urged Eastern European Catholics to hold strong to their beliefs against Communism, and by 1991 the Iron Curtain fell, the USSR was gone, and Lithuania - the only Catholic ex-Soviet republic - was a nation once again.
I quite enjoyed this video. Well done. There are a few inaccuracies and misunderstandings, but overall you did a great job at representing The Church of Jesus Christ in a non-confrontational way. Thank you. It's always refreshing to have a more peaceful approach to these things. I hope that as you continue to learn more that you will come to understand our perspective more. It can't come overnight, but if you keep searching and studying, then you'll find all that you need it can become even more clear. Best wishes to you, brother.
Loved the video. The first vision is more than beginning of the restoration of Christ church. It exemplifies the scriptural pattern for learning and confirming spiritual truths--i.e. by asking God.
As an active and sustaining member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
I liked and Subscribed!
Great videos! I appreciate your open desire to learn and do so without contention. You eloquently point out differences between our faith and yours but not with disdain or contention but with reverence.
I appreciate that.
I can’t find a video yet about your reading of the Book of Mormon. I saw your reaction video to our video about it.
But along this journey I’m curious if you’ve read it or if you plan on doing so and making a video about that?
That is a staple in fact “keystone” of our religion!
Keep up the great work!
Actually his family is said to accepted his story right off, it was the clergy of his day that were the antagonist.
You are usually very appropriate and accurate. Throughout most of this video you are spot on. However, you stated that Joseph’s vision indicated that since Jesus was a distinct personage from God the Father that he was not necessarily God. This is not the LDS belief. We believe He is God The Son or God’s Only Begotten Son who possesses all of The Father’s attributes. We believe in the Godhead, three distinct Beings… God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Jesus is God.
Wow, that looks cold. When I was 11, my parents took our family to the Sacred Grove, and my mom collected many leaves. When we got home she dried and laminated them and then gave them to all of the kids in the congregation. The parents were thrilled.
Hey, I’m a Pentecostal who lives in Utah for my whole 20+ years. Early LDS’ history is part of Utah’s history, they’ll only touch upon some religious aspect of the history to explain the what, why, when, where, and how. Most teachers are members of the church, and they don’t mix religion with school, and only mention if asked by students.
Very insightful on how non-LDS view our perspective of the Godhead. It is correct that we do not believe in the idea of the Trinity as defined at the Roman govt sanctioned council of Nicea.
To be more clear, every ounce of our doctrine expresses our belief that JESUS CHRIST is GOD. We also believe that there is an entirely separate corporeal being in God The Father. You mentioned that the bible clearly teaches the idea of the Trinity, I don't understand that because I definitely get the verses that refer to the oneness of God but there are also plenty that support the idea that they are separate and distinct.
So glad you got to experience Cumorah and also that you are so kind and thoughtful in your presentation. Thanks for the good content.
I’m an evangelical and, for clarification purposes, I’d like to offer a response to your statement, “You mentioned that the bible clearly teaches the idea of the Trinity, I don't understand that because I definitely get the verses that refer to the oneness of God but there are also plenty that support the idea that they are separate and distinct.”
First, I hope you are not confusing Trinitarianism with Modalism, which basically states that God manifests himself singularly in different modes (Father, Son, or Holy Spirit) at different times.
Rather, your observation about oneness and distinctiveness is what the doctrine of the Trinity is all about. We believe that the Bible teaches that there is only one God, and yet it shows there is a distinction between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son or the Spirit, the Son is not the Father or the Spirit, and the Spirit is not the Son or the Father. And yet the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God, and there is but one God. That’s the doctrine of the Trinity in a nutshell. We normally use the language that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one *Being* but separate *Persons.* (I think Pastor Jeff slipped up a little when he implied around 13:25 that we don’t believe that Jesus and God are different persons-I suspect he meant “persons” in the sense that we think of “people,” or human beings. But “one God, three Persons” is a very common way of describing the Trinity.) Personhood, among other things, has to do with _you-me_ consciousness and relationships. The doctrine of the Trinity embraces the otherness/distinctiveness within the Godhead while still embracing monotheism.
Anyway, I’m not trying to argue for the doctrine of the Trinity but merely trying to clear up some confusion you might have about it.
Hello Jeff, I thank you for your friendly and respectful study of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am a member of this church. I have been my whole life. My mother was a convert and my father is a non practicing Catholic. I enjoy watching your videos and learning how an evangelical pastor understands and views us when trying to learn with an open mind and with respect. I think for the most part, you are doing a good job anad bein gkind and respectful towards our church and our members. I think it is important for all of us to know our faith well and for it to take root in our hearts and change us. I also think it is important for all of us to not wear blinders, but to learn of others and their faith to better understand our own faith and to better understand and love our neighbor. I have a few respectful comments/criticisms I would like to make regarding a few of your videos. I know the name of our church is very long and I completely understand why you often refer to us as Mormon or LDS (I know you are trying to use LDS more often which is better), but honestly, we believe that our prophets were instructed by Jesus Christ to name this church after Him as it is His church, therefore the MOST IMPORTANT PART of our name is "THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST". "Of Latter Day Saints" is almost like a subtitle, because Jesus Christ is what our faith and salvation is centered around like other Christian faiths. The church has asked that we use that FULL name at least when we begin speaking of the church (so like maybe in the first sentence you use to refer to us in each video so that the core of our faith is well represented in our name. To me it feels like you try to avoid using the name Jesus Christ as much as possible when you talk about us and who we are but use it often when talking about your faith. The same thing happened in another way when you took the tour of one of our book stores, you made mention of latter day saint artwork, but then quickly scanned the camera around part of the room to by pass the many pictures of Christ I saw in the scan and made no mention that a lot of that art work is of Our Savior, Jesus Christ, almost like you were trying to make sure others didin't notice. Then, when you toured our church building, you did not mention at all that the most important part of our chapel is the sacrament table where we prepare the Sacrament of Christ. That is the most important part of our meeting. It is what makes that room and that meeting so different than any other part of the building and of our other gatherings. (side note: we do mainly call our meeting houses "churches", we mainly refer to the "sacrament room" as the "chapel" and the word "ward" is another word for "congregation" for us, and each congregation or ward is lead by a "bishop" who does lead, shepard and teach us at the puplit and in other ways like a pastor or minister in other Christian churches, even though we ahve members also teach at the puplit as called upon by our bishop, you seemed unsure about that terminology in a few videos).You also, again, in the tour of our church, showed the pictures all around the building slowley this time (thank you for that) but again rather than noting that they were all pictures of Jesus Christ and many were of biblical accounts, you just refered to them as "Latter Day Saint Art", making me feel again like you were trying to avoid pointing out that we obviously focus on the Savior in our church. We believe that EVERYTHING we do in our church and in our personal practice of our faith is supposed to lead us back to and point us to Jesus Christ, our Savior. Then, just to clarify, when you visited the sacred grove, you got two things wrong, as others mentioned, the Book of Mormon was translated in about 60+ days not multiple years, but also, Josephs' family was very supportive and believed him from the beginning and helped him in his journey of learning. This is important. His parents were the first people he told, right away. The community was NOT supportive. Also, the reason why Jospeh went back to the Hill Comorah 4 times but did not get to take the plates to translate until the end is NOT just because it wasn't time. That makes it sound like muliple pointless endeavors. He was told to go there on the anniversary of his first visit each year to receive more instruction and learning from the angel Moroni. We believe he was being prepared and taught. Lastly, I understand the differences between main stream Christianity and the Church of Jesus Chrsit of Latter Day Saints. And I understand that most Christians feel that those differences are so significant that we do not fit into the box of "Mainstream Christianity". I think as members of our church, most of us are completely okay with that analysis. In fast we would agree on the differences you point out. BUT, I think it is still disrespectful and incorrect to say that we are NOT Christians at all, when we say and live in a way that we believe in Christ as our Savior and Redeemer and that it is only in and through Him and His Atonement that all mankind may be saved. His name is in our name. We believe he is divine and Godly. Why can't other Christians, instead, say that we are not like other mainstream Christians but we ARE Christian, just maybe in another box. I don't tell various sects of muslims they are not muslims because they don't believe the way I think all muslims should believe. I don't say that to Hindi's or Jews either. It is for each person to say what they are and what they believe and then to live like they believe so that their life testifies of who they are. To tell me that I am NOT a Chrisitian, which in the dictionary is defined as "one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ", when I say that I am and try to live every day in a way that would emulate my Savior's teachings and life, is disrespectful of me. You don't have to belive that my bleifs are correct, but honor my statement that I am a Christian because I believe and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, as I understand them, just as you do. Thank you for reaading this. I have been holding my tongue for many months now, and had to finally say something, but I will try not to make any more strong comments and just enjoy watching your journey of fighting criticism with curiosity.
@10:20 Joseph was merely not upset at Martin, but he was upset with himself for not having obeyed the commandment from the Lord to not let Martin Harris take them to more than the few people that the Lord told him he could. It was the similar scenario as Samuel and Saul when Saul went ahead and did the sacrifice himself against the commandment to wait. Martin showed them to more people than we was allowed by God and that’s when Joseph was so worried because he had tempted God by asking him more times and being the “importuning woman” to put it in a parable sake. He ought to have been content to listen to God’s answer and not buckle to mankind. But it was a lesson to them both, and just as Christ can turn our mistakes into a useful lesson, we gained more revelation that the “works and designs and purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught.” (See D&C 3)
Joseph Smith forgave Martin Harris and was still in fellowship, but the Lord did not trust Martin to be scribe anymore. So that’s the full story. It wasn’t just that Joseph was upset, he was worried He had let down God. Martin was also worried. The Lord gave them the revelation in D&C 3 to let them know God was sovereign.
I am an LDS member and just want to say that I really, really appreciate these videos! You are incredibly open minded and respectful in your teachings/dialog, and it's actually helping me better understand why non-lds Christians are "uncomfortable" with our teachings. Thank you so much for these videos!!!
because you are not Christian. Jesus and Satan brothers is anti Christian theoligy. Most Lds is anti Biblical
I have many non-LDS Christian friends (many in the bible belt). We have had many discussions about many of the things you bring up. I always feel their questions to me (an LDS member) are out of great love and kindness. However - my heart hurts so deeply when they say I am not "Christian". You've helped me immensely understand why they may feel that way. But it still hurts. My relationship with Christ is so deep and precious, that to be told I am not "Christian" just because my version of Christ doesn't line up with theirs is very difficult for me to grapple with. I've also been told that I can't be saved or be led by God/Christ in my life, unless I accept that God is Christ, rather than Christ is the literal Son of God. This also hurts to hear from my fellow "Christians". I have a great deal of faith in Christ and His grace and have felt His spirit and guidance immensely in my life. Just something for you to think about when you talk about how the other Christian faiths denounce our Christianity. It is very personal and can be hurtful. I'd also love to hear you talk more about the contrast of our beliefs in the trinity. Can't we agree that the bible is a little confusing in this matter? There are many references of them being one but also as Christ being the "son of God". Even without Josephs visitation and revelations, the single incident in the bible when Christ was baptized and the spirit descended in the form of a dove and God said " Behold my beloved son" - to me that is a clear representation that they are 3 separate beings. I imagine we could "bible bash" all day on this subject. To me - I accept that it is a bit confusing in the bible and both sides can be affirmed in their beliefs - depending on what they are looking for. Am I understanding my friends wrong? Do you truly believe members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints cannot be saved in our current beliefs? Are we lost souls even if we have faith in Christ and His power to save - regardless of our religion and belief in the trinity. I mean no malice. Just trying to understand my dear friends better. Thanks for your help!
love the unbiased presentation about another belief, religion, than your own
Yes!, likewise a million thanks for virtually toured me to a place that is so dear to me.
John 1:1 in the begining was the Word, and the Word was "With" God, and the Word was God...
With all due respect, how could you missed the word "With", that it's plainly meant, you are not alone, that you are with somebody else.
So many times the Lord Jesus Christ express, the things he do/received is from the Father, this one also in John 17, And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine "own self " with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
It really show that they are separate beings.
On this verse also, it tells us that before the world was, the Lord Jesus Christ was already glorified ( God the son ). That Heavenly Father tasked His only Begotten Son Jesus Christ, that through His son all that was created were created visible or invisible, so naturally if you are the creator, you are the God of your creations like the earth for one.
The Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ always give honor to Heavenly Father ( God the Father/ the one true God ), the one that gave him all power and authority
That is why the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ (Jehovah/ I Am ) spoke to His chosen people the Israelites in the old testament, that he is their only God, no other God form before and after him (as if He is telling them to stop making/worshipping manmade god)
that He is the alpha and omega of all of his creations.
.
Yes they are separate beings but one in purpose. There's no conflict.For The fact is The Son of God had a Master God who was instructing him in all his ways to become just like him. Jesus was receiving instructions al the time from God his Father. His Father was teaching him.
Can I ask what you mean when you say "That is why the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ (Jehovah/ I Am ) spoke to His chosen people the Israelites in the old testament, that he is their only God, no other God form before and after him (as if He is telling them to stop making/worshipping manmade god)"? Do you believe that Jesus made the world but God didn't?
@@jakeb3781 just briefly jumping in. We, as Latter-day Saints, believe that Jesus Christ made the world under the direction of God the Father (Elohim). Heavenly Father instructed Christ in what to do and how to do it, but Christ created the world.
I think the confusion may come from how the word ‘God’ can be used. God is a title. The Godhead is made up of three persons: God the Father (Heavenly Father/Elohim), God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Ghost (the Holy Spirit/the Comforter). They are one God in purpose and intent, but they are three separate beings. I hope this helps :)
@@later4524 Hi thanks for clearing that up.
Thank you for being kind. I would love to see the sacred grove in lush green times of year. I have heard that if we really walked in someone’s shoes, then we would have no judgment or criticism, and possibly we may have empathy and love. I wish that others could know me. I have walked a very difficult road, and I am very misunderstood.
I love your outside perpestive of the LDSchurch and how you and other christains may view us. Im LDS too. But Im studying the bible for 5 years now and Im seeing things different than before in both the LDS church AND in other christain beliefs.
Hey Pastor Jeff, what you are doing is awesome. Two points of history that sticks out. One has been addressed already, that his family did believe the account of the First Vision. Second, it was the day after Moroni first came to him that he went to find the plates. Everything you do here is fantastic though! Honestly its a breath of fresh air that you try and talk about the Restored Church and our beliefs in such a fair light. I've met many other Christians who don't care to treat us as fairly. So thank you for all you do!
Thank you for ur video, I’m LDS. I appreciate that ur giving this effort. Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. Hopefully you will come to understand this a bit more 😉.
Also, Joseph’s family was very supportive of him.
I hope that u are praying your way through this adventure with an open heart and mind 😊.
Thank you for the video Jeff!❤️🙂
Love your video about our Church , you can contact missionaries or bishops in any area you are or visiting to help you ! 🥰
I am so fascinated by this entire channel. This is such a fun exploration.
Cool video, great virtual tour. I’m always interested or see what your reaction as a Christian pastor will be.
I guess the one thing that I would want to add is that we do believe Jesus is God. And also the Father. And also the Holy Ghost. Just look at the Book of Mormon. Very much emphasizes the Oneness of God.
A lot of members won’t say that because we do make a bigger deal of their distinctiveness than most other Christians. And there are some differences for sure.
But as far as I’m concerned, I’m ok with the statement that they are 3 persons and the same God.
That doesn’t contradict in my mind with the other things we teach about the nature of God.
But I definitely understand why other Christians would have a hard time with the other things we teach abt God.
Thanks Kimball!
So we have many, many important beliefs with other Christian faiths...and that is good. Where we disagree is the very man who translated the amazing Book of Mormon into English (a book that you can hold in your hand and read) also testified that he saw Heavenly Father and his beloved son Jesus Christ "standing in the air" above him....which makes much more sense when you carefully read the Bible, than believing in a trinity.
I think it is wonderful what you are doing pastor Jeff!
You will no more than many members of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints.
I have been a member for over 32 years; born and raised Roman Catholic; became a Born Again at 21 years old; attended many nondenominational churches until I read, studied, and prayed 🙏🏽 about the things I read and studied about the Lord Jesus Christ. At 27 years old, I joined the LDS Church in 30 January 1990 baptized on a Wednesday evening at 7pm without any of my family attending but new friends attending my baptism.
I have obtained a greater knowledge, experiences of the Doctrine of Christ and I am ALL IN to invite ALL to Come Unto Christ regardless of whether they join the LDS Church; should they more power to them should they NOT it’s okay as long as they have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ💯‼️👍❤️🙏🏽
I too am curious to learn what you discover 😊
Agree or disagree, I appreciate how respectful and genuine you keep your videos.
Wow, I'm working through your videos and am just impressed with the depths you are going. I myself haven't made the trip to Palmyra. Love the respect and the quality of your videos. Thank you for sharing.
Nicely done. I'll be watching more. If you've not already planned it, a trip to the LDS Priesthood Restoration site in old Harmony, PA (now Oakland Township in Susquehanna County) would shed additional light on the production of the Book of Mormon and on Joseph and Emma Smith. The name of the site gives away that you'll find out there about priesthood in the church, and also about Joseph's and Oliver's baptisms. There is a visitor center and reconstructed homes, and the always helpful guides you've found in other places.
Hi Jeff, thank you for your excellent videos! I have watched many of them and I enjoy them a lot and am looking forward to viewing them all. As an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for more than 40 years, and in response to this video, I just wanted to insert something here about how I personally understand Jesus Christ as God. The Book of Mormon -- Another Testament of Jesus Christ teaches that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Eternal Father. But it also teaches undeniably that Jesus Christ is God, even though He is a separate and distinct individual from His Father. When Jesus Christ introduced Himself to His people in the Americas in The Book of Mormon, He proclaimed Himself as God when He said, "Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world." (3 Nephi 11:13). God, the Eternal Father, His Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct individuals but are united in the Godhead in such a full and complete way that Jesus is speaking the truth when He introduces Himself as God. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are indeed “one God, without end.” (2 Nephi 31:21). I hope you find this helpful as you embark on the adventure of reading The Book of Mormon - Another Testament of Jesus Christ for yourself. God bless you for your curiosity and willingness to explore the Gospel of Jesus Christ as presented in the Book of Mormon and administered by leaders and others in His restored church. Thank you.
Another wonderful video. Appreciate your respect and kindness. I would encourage you to read Saints. It’s our history.
I’ve been a member all my life and have always been taught that Jesus is a God. There is God the Father and God the Son.
I would love to see a discussion with you and Greg from Cwic media. I think you two would have a fascinating conversation.
Michael B Rush would be great too.
Thank you brother. I was going to criticize you until I made it to your takeaway. I see what you did there. My daughter who grew up in a non denominational Christian church and recently graduated from a private Christian high school just became a mormon. We're praying for her salvation as she clearly never knew Him. May God through the Holy Spirit continue to give you wisdom and discernment. God bless.
Thanks for your efforts with these video's. The end of this episode needs a little clarity. When The Father and the Son appeared to Joseph, yes, they are separate beings... but they are one God, two members of the Godhead... and the Holy Ghost, the third member of the Godhead, was also very much present or Joseph could not have endured the presence of the Father and the Son. Christ is God. Father is God. The Holy Ghost is God.
Another small correction... it took Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith about 3 months to finish the translation of the Book of Mormon after Martin Harris lost the 116 pages, once Joseph recieved the ability to translate again!. I think you just made an honest mistake... didn't mean to say years! 🤗
This was an exciting and unique journey to go all the way back to the beginning! What details did I miss?
Joseph didn't do all the translation there at the Martin Harris farm. Joseph wasn't angry at Martin Harris. Martin Harris kept on asking him for him to take the manuscript to show it to a learned translator. Joseph Smith would pray to God God will tell him no multiple times. Martin Harris got them pushing it so eventually Joseph prayed one more time and then God said eventually fine do it. So Martin Harris took it to the learning translator the professor the professor or the professional wrote him a certificate of authentication when he asked Martin how did Joseph get the plates he told the story then the professional took the certificate and ripped it into pieces saying that there was no more revelation. Then Martin Harris still getting showed it to his family which Joseph told him God said not to do Martin did it anyway. then at night some of his family stole the manuscript. And when Martin's family stole the manuscript their plan was to wait for Joseph to retranslate that exact same writing so then they can go and change the original manuscript to say that Joseph was wrong so when David whitmer became his scribe David whitmer asked him if they were going to retranslate that portion of the Book of Mormon Joseph said no because God told him not to do so because God told him about the plot That Martin's family was going to do. And when Martin lost the plates Joseph lost the gift to translate and he felt like he was damned and that he was cut off that there was no coming back from this he felt like that he did the greatest sin that anyone could do he felt like that he was a complete another failure. And Joseph's family never persecuted ridicule him after he told him about their visions his mother Lucy Max Smith immediately believed him and when he told his father at the time when Moroni came to him after he tried to jump the fence but he fell unconscious on the ground when he got done visiting with Moroni for the fourth time you went to his father because Moroni told him to do that. Joseph Smith Senior told Joseph to go to the hill to get the plates Joseph's father told Joseph, "It was of God." And Martin Harris and David whitmer were not Joseph's only scribes his wife Emma Smith helped them describe the Book of Mormon as well. And Martin Harris after he Lost the manuscript he never returned and talked to Joseph again. And for more information we have more than just the Bible in the book of Mormon we have what is called the doctrine and the covenants and the Pearl of Great Price they're not going to coincidence it's a recording of the spiritual history of the church The Pearl of Great Price is a manuscript that was found with a mummy Joseph purchased the mummy took a look at the scrolls that was with the mummy and he said those writings came straight from the father Abraham's own hand those drawings that are in The pearl of great price are the exact copy of Abraham's own drawings in the style of art from his own hand.
From The Book Of Morman,
2 Nephi 31:21 reads: "And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen."
@tapir rider They lived about 100 miles from dartmouth, in a different part of the state.
Great video! None of the translation occurred at the Martin Harris’s farm (I’m sure Martin’s wife at the time would have had no part in that!). It primarily occurred on the Hale property in Harmony, PA and finished at the Whitmers near Fayette, NY. Also, Oliver helped Joseph finish the translation in less than 3 months, not 2 years. Hope that helps!
Also, what is your take on Stephen’s martyrdom saying he saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God?
I found your channel fairly recently and I truly appreciate your knowledge of the LDS Church! I'm a member of the LDS Church! Thank you!
Thank you Pastor Jeffrey for your willingness to open minded study. Blessed are the peacemakers...Thank you for the peace you desire to share. Matthew 5:8,9
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
May we see God in the image of every person on this earth to be the sons and daughters of God... that is when we will see peace.
Thank you for your honesty, respect, and pure heart. I pray for you and your content to remain this way. God Bless you and your family forever.
First off, thank you for the work you’re doing. So many times I feel other Christian denominations view Latter-day Saints like Voldemort - “he who shall not be named.” They’re afraid to even ask about what we believe and why. So this is refreshing.
Next, I think you may have a mistaken impression. Even though Latter-day Saints believe that God the Father and Jesus Christ are separate beings and acknowledging that that alone is very different than most Christian denominations, we do believe that Jesus Christ is also God. We believe He created the earth. We believe he was God made flesh. In LDS doctrine, their separateness does not in any way
diminish Jesus Christ.
Love the video...i know its irrelevant to whats being talked about but as a musician i love the background music at about the 8 minute mark haha very folky blue grassy sound..nice choice brother 👌
Love your videos! Thanks for your respect :) Some thoughts: Moses appeared to Jesus on the mount of transfiguration. If Moses could reappear on earth to Jesus I think that's a very clear precedent set for Moroni to reappear on earth to Joseph.
These are such thoughtful clips, I enjoy thinking about them throughout the day. Thank you!
Where can I find your music? It’s beautiful.
There is some misinformation already listed but I appreciate your thoughtfulness and respectful handling of our culture, history, and beliefs.
I had an experience about 10 years ago when I started reading the Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ with my little boys. We started at the very beginning. The introduction is long for kids but so fun to imagine Joseph Smith’s story with them. When I said my prayers that night I felt an undeniable witness that what we had started reading was good and true. For a time I wondered why I couldn’t have had that experience with the Savior. It was just so powerful. I later realized I had! The Spirit and Joseph were both pointing me to Jesus Christ. A Prophet does not stand between you and our Savior, he stands with you and points the way to Him. My understanding of that experience has changed and I have found different words to describe it over the years but the experience itself has never changed. I can relate to Joseph’s different accounts of the first vision. I’m grateful for Joseph and Emma’s continual sacrifices to do the work of the Lord and especially for the restoration of a Prophet and revelation for our day. It is good to see that revelation is a process even for a Prophet!
Hi! I love your videos, I've been watching them for the past few days and I appreciate the love and respect you show while exploring LDS religion. In one of your videos you state that you're a history buff, there is a book series called The Saints that explores the history of the church from its beginning to current times. I think you would like and appreciate those books. Church historians worked for years putting it together making sure it was as accurate as possible while still being reader friendly. Just a suggestion ☺️, I look forward to future videos from you.
Subscribed! I'm loving this channel and how you compare, contrast, and teach, rather than attack (many people attack, LDS included, do when discussing other faiths). I'm learning a lot and enjoying the variety of perspectives about the different ways people understand and follow Jesus Christ. I'll respectfully add my thoughts to the conversation!
You mention in your video that the Bible (and most other sects of Christianity) disagrees with Joseph Smith's experience of seeing Jesus Christ and God the Father as separate beings. However, if I understand history correctly, the doctrine of the Trinity was solidified and decided on in the year 325 at the Council of Nicaea. Because there was disagreement on this very issue (the nature of God and the relationship of Jesus Christ with The Father), a group of bishops held the council to decide what the "true" interpretation should be. The result was the Nicene Creed and the doctrine of the Trinity. Here is my question: If most Christian denominations believe that revelation ceased after Jesus Christ and the Apostles, how can they also trust the interpretation of a group of men 300 years later? Why trust the interpretation of these people more than others (such as Joseph Smith) if all are without revelation. Many crucial theological doctrines were established many years after Christ and the Apostles were long gone. Including the very organization of the Bible (another council decided which books, letters, revelations, and epistles to include, which ones to reject, and their order). Another very interesting doctrine that was created hundreds of years after Christ is the concept that revelation has ceased, seems a bit ironic to me.
While many Christian's point to the Bible as the origin of these doctrines, the origin of these doctrines actually stems from an interpretation of the bible, interpretations which, ironically, came forth supposedly after a time that revelation existed.
Members of the LDS faith do not believe in things contrary to the Bible, we just disagree with the interpretations of the council of Nicaea. And this is all the more reason to believe (and hope) in revelation and additional guidance from God. For example, you quote John 1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." But why does John say that "the Word was with God"? Why not just skip that sentence? Depends on how you interpret it. In John 17:21, Jesus is quoted to have said, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us." If we believe that Jesus is saying that he is literally the same being as The Father, than we must also believe that we can be literally the same being as Jesus and God? Or maybe he is just saying we can be unified with them, in the same way that Jesus and God are unified (one) but separate beings. Just depends on the interpretation.
I have watched several of your videos and I am SO impressed with your ministry. You are fair, WOW! My main point that I would like your opinion on is indeed the trinity. As a recent convert to the LDS church the trinity issue always bothered me. The LDS concept makes more sense to me. Consider my previous explanation of the trinity as an equivalence class. Thinking of God and Jesus made more sense to me in relating it to the virgin birth of Jesus. But, fundamentally to me, they are the same. To me it would be nit-picking to say one or the other group was not Christian based on their view of the trinity. I love your ministry and videos and will keep watching. Thanks.
These are awesome videos, and your message is a good one. It's so important that we find unity together as Christians especially as the Lord's Second Coming draws ever closer.
Sorry, another slight correction from some of the others I see in the comments. 😅
Though Joseph Smith was lead to and translated the Book of Mormon through revelation, the Book of Mormon is a history compiled by Mormon who then gave it to his son who wrote the final book in the Book of Mormon and buried the plates. :)
And, we do believe that Jesus Christ is God. But I understand the misunderstanding :)
Read Lucy Mack Smith’s account of Joseph’s story. She knew his history better than anyone.
Others have mentioned that Joseph's family believed him from the beginning. Also, Oliver Cowdery's name is pronounced how it's spelled "cow" rather than "call". Keep it up. I've just discovered you, and I think you're doing a great job!
As another commenter pointed out, we believe that Jesus IS God. "God" is an office, to which the Father /appointed/ the Son through what might be called a "divine investiture of authority". Almost every time the character of God appears in the Bible or Book of Mormon (or Doctrine and Covenants for that matter) that is the person of Jesus Christ. He was appointed by His Father to be the Creator, Mediator, and Redeemer of the world.
I will be very interested in your impression of the Christology of the Book of Mormon itself, compared to your understanding of our current doctrine. The title page, which you zoomed in on a few times, declares Jesus to be "the Christ, the Eternal God". The BoM is full of sermons, but I'll point out a few chapters I find notable for their doctrine of Jesus and His mission:
Jacob's sermon on the Atonement in 2 Nephi ch. 9&10
King Benjamin's Address in Mosiah ch. 2-5
Abinadi connecting Jesus Christ to the Law of Moses in Mosiah ch. 12-16
Mormon's sermon on Charity in Moroni ch. 7
Moroni's final admonition in Moroni ch. 10
and of course Jesus introducing Himself in 3 Nephi ch. 11.
One of my favorite sound bites is in 2 Nephi ch. 2, which highlights how we connect the Creation and the Fall with the Atonement: "Adam fell that men might be, and men are that they might have joy; and the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that He may redeem the children of men from the fall."
Many others have already commented on the Trinitarian aspect of your comments. I just want to say Thank You for the respectful way you present the gospel that I love, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This another fine video, Sir.
Thank you pastor Jeff for always being respectful.
I just got to say. I’ve heard many near death experiences where Christians saw god the father and god the son. Dean Braxton and Colton Burpo are some of the more well known ones. Have you read the book Heaven is for real?
I'm really enjoying these videos. I do feel a genuine feeling of wanting to know more about our church. I know your videos are short and you do your very best to gather as much info in a short presentation. Not an easy task. I would like to ask if you took the tours while you visited these church historical sites? Just curious. Lastly, not sure where you got the info to the effect we do not recognize Jesus as God. We believe in the Godhead as being God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghosts (Holy Spirit) In different passages from the Bible we read how Jesus prayed or taught how to pray unto His Father, He mentioned how He was one with Him and even said a few time He was one with them (his disciples) as He is one with the Father. We do believe in trinity we just believe in three different personages who are God.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there any other Christian denominations that think or teach something very similar?
I think the genesis of our church is so interesting. There is much to learn and to enjoy with the tours.
Also may I recommend the Sharon, VT church historical site. It goes hand in had with the Palmyra ones. I highly recommend it.
I was raised a Baptist. I actually asked my parents to go to church when I was 5yo. I cherish many wonderful memories. Thank you so much for your efforts I see it as a bridge between us. I love how you do it with a great deal of respect!
God bless you!
I went to Palmyra back in the 1970s, I left England to do what I called the Mormon Tour. I found it was very interesting, and the people who looked after all the sites and places were so nice and polite.
Treasures every one of them... I went to Kirkland and ended up in Nauvoo, these sites get your mind working. *smile*
I’m genuinely curious. How do other Christians explain Matthew 3:17, after Jesus is baptized “And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son,whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” If they are the same being, who’s voice is coming from heaven calling Jesus his Son?