Great product, i have been using this for several years now on a Westinghouse 9500. Never had an issue attached to natural gas. Generator starts quick and runs great. Was able to keep my house up through several hurricanes. The last one had us out of power for 4 days.
That is the idea behind my DIY riding lawnmower conversion. I used 1/4 copper tubing and routed it through the air box into the throat of the carb. Works great!
Ya, I think that's what I'm going to do too. I have a plastic elbow between my carburator and my filter box that would be easy to drill into. And I've found Impco regulators on eBay for $50. Now I just need to figure out how to rig up one of those adjustment T's. It doesn't look like rocket science.
I have a Duro Max XP12000E that can run off of Propane (regulator for only LP) and Gasoline out of the box. I would love to use Natural Gas. Will the motor Snorkel work with my Generator? Is it possible to just replace the stock LPG regulator with a Garreston regulator instead?
my w-house igen 2500 is frameless as are many other in the 2200-2500 watt range. do you have a problem of installing that big ass regulator that you supply on 1/2"-5/8" tfe standoffs below the exhaust and over the intake?
I know the thing works. I know it functions on same principle as scuba air regulator. I also know if you feed gas directly into carburetor works as well, but is unsafe due to backfire. When the engine sputters it means unburnt propane leaves the cylinder and ignites in exhaust gallery- happens white extra rich mixture. But also if propane lingers into air inlet it could ignite. This propane kit works, I'm just trying to assess its reliability.
Propane conversions have been done for decades. Henry Ford even experimented with them. Propane powered tractors have been around since 1917, fork trucks in the 1930's. The common fork truck of today is really a 1950's era wonder. The two gasoline shortages of the 1970's gave birth to newer propane cars and conversions. During World War 2 gasoline was rationed and propane was not thus farmers in here used Propane.
The patented motor snorkel just is a tube down the throat that has a thin width of the adapter. ie instead of the decades old giant thick adapter donnut ring. With a motor snorkel one often does not have to cut any generator frames. It is so thin that the air cleaner only moves out a few mm instead of say 10 to 20mm. Both work by vacuum, the pressure is below atmosphere and thus the Demand regulator sees a vacuum and allows a flow of LP or NG. The older donut type of adapter is about 50 years old, the motor snorkel new. The new adapter came out so folks do not have to cut any steel frames
Really like to see close up shots( NOT HARD) showing the snokel into the choke. My obvious question is DO YOU OBSTRUCT THE CHOKE? YOU STATE THAT YOU SHOULD NOT OPERATE THE CHOKE BEFORE YOU PUT THE FILTER SHROUD BACK ON BUT YOU DON'T EXPLAIN THAT CONTEXT. PRETTY SMART GUY HERE BUT THAT IS ALLUDING ME
From previous comments, the tube is soft enough to be compressed by choke plate, then returns to original size. On some carbs, clearance is not an issue
If the snorkel installs past the choke plate of the carb, hows the choke function? Im assuming it doesnt fully close? Does the snorkel collapse to seal for using the choke when running on gas?
I'm sure it doesn't collapse. I assume the tube goes past the choke so the fuel isn't choked out when the choke valve closes. This may also help you use the choke to prime the regulator/valve with increased vacuum pressure too. But the venturi adaptors don't go past the choke valve and they seem to work fine. Maybe they expect you'll have a manual/auto primer on your valve so there wouldn't be a need to choke the carburetor to get fuel flowing... I wish USCarburation would answer these questions since it's their design.
+twist of -faith The snorkel tubes cross section is small compared the carb's bore thus the loss would be slight. The older "donut" 1cm thick adapter had a necked down venturi and some use to say the output was 10 percent less
What is the best motor oil to use after the two hour breaking period of a new generator? I have a Troy-bilt 5550 and use it in Florida. Synthetic 5w-30?
Don't go cheap on choosing oil. I use 5w-30 Castrol Edge Synthetic. I run my whole house on a portable Duro Max EP12000EH generator. Runs on Gasoline, Propane or NG I love it and runs smooth on this oil for hours and hours.
@@prettygirlus9008 Yes but not with the Hot Water tank on! So we shut it off when doing AC....I actually have not tried it! But know the Watts from both could add undo stress to generator. When shower is needed we flip off AC and on HW tank. Simple and has worked well when we were out of power 4 days. Be sure to change oil every 20-30 hours! If you are only running at 1/2 then you can go much longer. But in my neighborhood I supplies my house and ran heavy duty cable to neighbors 50 ft away to keep their refrig and lights going. There are some who say synthetic can go longer but why push it! Shut it down and change oil and it will be your best friend! Keep at least 3 changes of oil in supplies.
@@ronmorningstar6231 I've found the Duromax XP15000EH dual fuel for $3000; this model seems to be hard to find. But this is $1600 more than the XP1300EH. Is the extra power worth it? Hoping to run my 4-ton central AC.
The KN Regulator works off of engine "vacuum". So the further away you have it from the engine the more vacuum it is going to take to open the regulator. Imagine trying to suck milk through a 20' long straw. We have found that it's best to have the KN regulator within about 18" from the carburetor. You can try further however it can start to cause issues.
I just bought a generator that can run both gas and LP out of the box. I'm wondering if I could also run natural gas as well? Would there be any differences between LP and natural gas besides possibly needing to change some connection fittings?
You could run Natural gas with the addition of Motorsnorkel to your system. Please send your question along with your exact make and model of generator to support@uscarb.com and we can get you some additional information.
@@jonsmith2217 Hello. I do not see it listed in our system yet. However I looked up the carburetor and it looks like it would take our MSK3202. If you already own the generator and can email us a picture of the face of the carburetor and give us a measurement from the center of the left carburetor stud over to the center of the right carburetor stud we can verify that snorkel will work for that generator.
If your generator is dual fuel you can convert your generator to tri-fuel by hooking your new regulator to the propane side of your carburetor. go to billteachesyoustuff on youtube and watch the video on tri-fuel.
There is a problem with this conversion: the regulator is not meant to work cyclically. When you convert a 4-cylinder to propane, the regulator is quite the same, however the propane flow is uninterrupted: 4 cylinders 4-cycle means one cylinder draws air. But in your case- the one-cylinder engine only draws propane once every 4 strokes, meaning the regulator is forced to cycle on-off for every engine cycle. At 3600 rpm that is 900 commutations per minute. Even if the regulator was guaranteed for one million commutations (which I doubt since there are rubber parts, spring, valve and valve seat which are prone to fail at a duty of almost 1000 cycles per minute), is still like 1000 minutes, or 16 hours before servicing it. Just to wrap it up: is the regulator supposed to work cyclically? What is the warranty on it?
A better way to ask your question is: Will the diaphragm return spring be strong enough to close the gas valve during the compression, power, and exhaust strokes of a single cylinder 4 cycle engine 900 times per minute at 3600 RPM? My best guess is that this may happen while cranking during startup but not at 3600 rpm. I suppose something could go wrong if there was a bad intake valve leak because of the blowback through the intake system. If that were the case the engine may not start at all. An interruption of this sort would starve the engine of fuel and compression. Due to regulator design your question would be difficult if not impossible to test. Another thing to consider is the track record of these regulators. 1 million commutations would be just under 19 hours of run time. I would bet that there are tons of these that have had more running time than 19 hours. Also, are the regulators that are used on brand new generators designed to open and close at this rate? In my opinion I don't believe the very light diaphragm spring tension would be able to close the valve this fast during normal (3600) engine rpm. If the spring tension was heavy enough to make this happen, engine vacuum would never be enough to ever open the valve in the regulator in the first place.
Another thought....If these small engines had a vacuum port that would accept a vacuum gauge you may be able to test your theory at very low engine rpm. If your theory is correct you may be able to see flutter in the vacuum reading at very low engine rpm. It may even be noticeable on the vacuum gauge at higher rpm.
With a multi cylinder engine running the "air" through the inlet is stable enough so the demand regulator sees a fairly constant flow; ie the regulator is NOT working cyclically. It is in about one place, open enough for the flow. ie it is NOT jumping around with each piston firing.
I didn't think so either. But it was an interesting question/theory...3beltwesty. I have a question for you...Why would a 4 cyl engine that is ran on NG that drives a generator have the exhaust manifold nearly cherry red hot at only 1/3 load?
Get ready to be aggravated beyond your imagination. You will pull on the start for your generator to your arm falls the funk off. You will tinker and adjust to the sweat Burns your eyes. You will not get it to run consistentl.. Back to the drawing board guys
Is not the snorkel that baffles me. What they call snorkel is only a bent pipe sandwiched into a thick gasket. No technology there. What baffles me is the Garretson regulator. That kind of regulator is common to 4 cylinder engines because it regulates a continuous flow. However, a one piston engine will demand propane discontinuously, once every 4 strokes. In this conditions, if the regulator valve starts commuting at an average 900 times a minute,then it will fail within first 20 hours of operation. The only way this regulator will last longer is if the valve stays open continuously. If that's the case, then propane will accumulate into intake gallery for 3 strokes and there is risk of self-ignition outside cylinder during the admission stroke. What I mean is propane should not mix with air outside cylinder. That will require the regulator valve to close after admission stroke. Which is not possible for this valve. That's why they don't reply.
The flow is continuous. These regulators have been around for about 50 years. The valve in the regulator is NOT jumping around at 900 times a minute, it is at one position. Thus the flaw in your logic is that the valve is fluttering when it is really at one position when at one flow rate. ie the thing is damped and has a low natural frequency thus cannot dance at such a high rate. Most these regulators are on engines with less than 4 cylinders, ie 1 cylinder is the most common set up.
Great product, i have been using this for several years now on a Westinghouse 9500. Never had an issue attached to natural gas. Generator starts quick and runs great. Was able to keep my house up through several hurricanes. The last one had us out of power for 4 days.
Perfect, I followed your instructions and the manual and started up on the 2nd pull. Thanks a lot guys.
That is the idea behind my DIY riding lawnmower conversion. I used 1/4 copper tubing and routed it through the air box into the throat of the carb. Works great!
Ya, I think that's what I'm going to do too. I have a plastic elbow between my carburator and my filter box that would be easy to drill into. And I've found Impco regulators on eBay for $50. Now I just need to figure out how to rig up one of those adjustment T's. It doesn't look like rocket science.
How do you switch from using lnp or propane to gasoline? Does that snorkel inlet prevent the choke from operating?
I have a Duro Max XP12000E that can run off of Propane (regulator for only LP) and Gasoline out of the box. I would love to use Natural Gas. Will the motor Snorkel work with my Generator? Is it possible to just replace the stock LPG regulator with a Garreston regulator instead?
my w-house igen 2500 is frameless as are many other in the 2200-2500 watt range. do you have a problem of installing that big ass regulator that you supply on 1/2"-5/8" tfe standoffs below the exhaust and over the intake?
I have a question, what if i mount this upside down? Does it affect anything?
So, does this bolted-on regulator work with NG and with LP?
I know the thing works. I know it functions on same principle as scuba air regulator. I also know if you feed gas directly into carburetor works as well, but is unsafe due to backfire. When the engine sputters it means unburnt propane leaves the cylinder and ignites in exhaust gallery- happens white extra rich mixture. But also if propane lingers into air inlet it could ignite. This propane kit works, I'm just trying to assess its reliability.
Propane conversions have been done for decades. Henry Ford even experimented with them. Propane powered tractors have been around since 1917, fork trucks in the 1930's. The common fork truck of today is really a 1950's era wonder. The two gasoline shortages of the 1970's gave birth to newer propane cars and conversions. During World War 2 gasoline was rationed and propane was not thus farmers in here used Propane.
The patented motor snorkel just is a tube down the throat that has a thin width of the adapter. ie instead of the decades old giant thick adapter donnut ring. With a motor snorkel one often does not have to cut any generator frames. It is so thin that the air cleaner only moves out a few mm instead of say 10 to 20mm. Both work by vacuum, the pressure is below atmosphere and thus the Demand regulator sees a vacuum and allows a flow of LP or NG. The older donut type of adapter is about 50 years old, the motor snorkel new. The new adapter came out so folks do not have to cut any steel frames
Really like to see close up shots( NOT HARD) showing the snokel into the choke. My obvious question is DO YOU OBSTRUCT THE CHOKE? YOU STATE THAT YOU SHOULD NOT OPERATE THE CHOKE BEFORE YOU PUT THE FILTER SHROUD BACK ON BUT YOU DON'T EXPLAIN THAT CONTEXT. PRETTY SMART GUY HERE BUT THAT IS ALLUDING ME
From previous comments, the tube is soft enough to be compressed by choke plate, then returns to original size. On some carbs, clearance is not an issue
This exactly - why even make a video if you aren't SHOWING THE IMPORTANT PARTS!!!!
If the snorkel installs past the choke plate of the carb, hows the choke function? Im assuming it doesnt fully close? Does the snorkel collapse to seal for using the choke when running on gas?
I'm sure it doesn't collapse. I assume the tube goes past the choke so the fuel isn't choked out when the choke valve closes. This may also help you use the choke to prime the regulator/valve with increased vacuum pressure too. But the venturi adaptors don't go past the choke valve and they seem to work fine. Maybe they expect you'll have a manual/auto primer on your valve so there wouldn't be a need to choke the carburetor to get fuel flowing... I wish USCarburation would answer these questions since it's their design.
+xboxer1985
Wondering this myself. I think I'll just email them or call to ask.
I have the snorkel on my yamaha ef2000is. The snorkel does go past the choke plate and does collapse and reform when the choke plate is opened.
yes my ef2000is works just fine with the snorkel down the carb throat on gasoline.
+twist of -faith The snorkel tubes cross section is small compared the carb's bore thus the loss would be slight. The older "donut" 1cm thick adapter had a necked down venturi and some use to say the output was 10 percent less
I wonder if they sell just the snorkel piece? I seen something similar online somewhere for $20. And I still think the price for this kit is too high.
What is the best motor oil to use after the two hour breaking period of a new generator? I have a Troy-bilt 5550 and use it in Florida. Synthetic 5w-30?
I would say the best is synthetic 10w30. Now, if knew I would be running in temperatures under 20F, I would think about using 5w30.
Don't go cheap on choosing oil. I use 5w-30 Castrol Edge Synthetic. I run my whole house on a portable Duro Max EP12000EH generator. Runs on Gasoline, Propane or NG I love it and runs smooth on this oil for hours and hours.
@@ronmorningstar6231 Are you able to run your central AC?
@@prettygirlus9008 Yes but not with the Hot Water tank on! So we shut it off when doing AC....I actually have not tried it! But know the Watts from both could add undo stress to generator. When shower is needed we flip off AC and on HW tank. Simple and has worked well when we were out of power 4 days. Be sure to change oil every 20-30 hours! If you are only running at 1/2 then you can go much longer. But in my neighborhood I supplies my house and ran heavy duty cable to neighbors 50 ft away to keep their refrig and lights going. There are some who say synthetic can go longer but why push it! Shut it down and change oil and it will be your best friend! Keep at least 3 changes of oil in supplies.
@@ronmorningstar6231 I've found the Duromax XP15000EH dual fuel for $3000; this model seems to be hard to find. But this is $1600 more than the XP1300EH. Is the extra power worth it? Hoping to run my 4-ton central AC.
Why not *mount the regulator* on the propane cylinder and run a _low pressure_ hose to the appliance. That is the *usual* setup.
The KN Regulator works off of engine "vacuum". So the further away you have it from the engine the more vacuum it is going to take to open the regulator. Imagine trying to suck milk through a 20' long straw. We have found that it's best to have the KN regulator within about 18" from the carburetor. You can try further however it can start to cause issues.
According to YOUR instructions, why must the the generator be run FIRST on gasoline for 2 HOURS ? What is the logic in this for a dual-fuel generator?
Proper Break-in of the motor
I just bought a generator that can run both gas and LP out of the box. I'm wondering if I could also run natural gas as well? Would there be any differences between LP and natural gas besides possibly needing to change some connection fittings?
You could run Natural gas with the addition of Motorsnorkel to your system. Please send your question along with your exact make and model of generator to support@uscarb.com and we can get you some additional information.
@@USCarburetion do you make this propane kit for a sportsman 800 - 1000 watt generator?
@@jonsmith2217 Hello. I do not see it listed in our system yet. However I looked up the carburetor and it looks like it would take our MSK3202. If you already own the generator and can email us a picture of the face of the carburetor and give us a measurement from the center of the left carburetor stud over to the center of the right carburetor stud we can verify that snorkel will work for that generator.
@@USCarburetion okay thanks I'll have to call Sportsman generators. And try to to get the center to Center stud measurement on the carburetor studs.
If your generator is dual fuel you can convert your generator to tri-fuel by hooking your new regulator to the propane side of your carburetor. go to billteachesyoustuff on youtube and watch the video on tri-fuel.
There is a problem with this conversion: the regulator is not meant to work cyclically. When you convert a 4-cylinder to propane, the regulator is quite the same, however the propane flow is uninterrupted: 4 cylinders 4-cycle means one cylinder draws air. But in your case- the one-cylinder engine only draws propane once every 4 strokes, meaning the regulator is forced to cycle on-off for every engine cycle. At 3600 rpm that is 900 commutations per minute. Even if the regulator was guaranteed for one million commutations (which I doubt since there are rubber parts, spring, valve and valve seat which are prone to fail at a duty of almost 1000 cycles per minute), is still like 1000 minutes, or 16 hours before servicing it. Just to wrap it up: is the regulator supposed to work cyclically? What is the warranty on it?
A better way to ask your question is: Will the diaphragm return spring be strong enough to close the gas valve during the compression, power, and exhaust strokes of a single cylinder 4 cycle engine 900 times per minute at 3600 RPM? My best guess is that this may happen while cranking during startup but not at 3600 rpm. I suppose something could go wrong if there was a bad intake valve leak because of the blowback through the intake system. If that were the case the engine may not start at all. An interruption of this sort would starve the engine of fuel and compression. Due to regulator design your question would be difficult if not impossible to test. Another thing to consider is the track record of these regulators. 1 million commutations would be just under 19 hours of run time. I would bet that there are tons of these that have had more running time than 19 hours. Also, are the regulators that are used on brand new generators designed to open and close at this rate? In my opinion I don't believe the very light diaphragm spring tension would be able to close the valve this fast during normal (3600) engine rpm. If the spring tension was heavy enough to make this happen, engine vacuum would never be enough to ever open the valve in the regulator in the first place.
Another thought....If these small engines had a vacuum port that would accept a vacuum gauge you may be able to test your theory at very low engine rpm. If your theory is correct you may be able to see flutter in the vacuum reading at very low engine rpm. It may even be noticeable on the vacuum gauge at higher rpm.
With a multi cylinder engine running the "air" through the inlet is stable enough so the demand regulator sees a fairly constant flow; ie the regulator is NOT working cyclically. It is in about one place, open enough for the flow. ie it is NOT jumping around with each piston firing.
I didn't think so either. But it was an interesting question/theory...3beltwesty. I have a question for you...Why would a 4 cyl engine that is ran on NG that drives a generator have the exhaust manifold nearly cherry red hot at only 1/3 load?
PS. I skipped the first step and my generator runs fine. 🤔
Get ready to be aggravated beyond your imagination. You will pull on the start for your generator to your arm falls the funk off. You will tinker and adjust to the sweat Burns your eyes. You will not get it to run consistentl..
Back to the drawing board guys
This is pretty vague for DIY'ers
Is not the snorkel that baffles me. What they call snorkel is only a bent pipe sandwiched into a thick gasket. No technology there. What baffles me is the Garretson regulator. That kind of regulator is common to 4 cylinder engines because it regulates a continuous flow. However, a one piston engine will demand propane discontinuously, once every 4 strokes. In this conditions, if the regulator valve starts commuting at an average 900 times a minute,then it will fail within first 20 hours of operation. The only way this regulator will last longer is if the valve stays open continuously. If that's the case, then propane will accumulate into intake gallery for 3 strokes and there is risk of self-ignition outside cylinder during the admission stroke. What I mean is propane should not mix with air outside cylinder. That will require the regulator valve to close after admission stroke. Which is not possible for this valve. That's why they don't reply.
The flow is continuous. These regulators have been around for about 50 years. The valve in the regulator is NOT jumping around at 900 times a minute, it is at one position. Thus the flaw in your logic is that the valve is fluttering when it is really at one position when at one flow rate. ie the thing is damped and has a low natural frequency thus cannot dance at such a high rate.
Most these regulators are on engines with less than 4 cylinders, ie 1 cylinder is the most common set up.
Don't buy this it's not worth it there's no reason to make it where you can't joke it and run it on gas
Chris Web the snorkel hose is flexible. The choke valve pushes the hose to the side and still closes while in place, when using gasoline.
@@shawng8432 nope not on mine choke wont close enough