New Evidence Means I Start Over... Again | Engels Coach Shop
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- Опубликовано: 18 ноя 2024
- In the pursuit of being authentic, you viewers have sent me better pictures showing much better clarity of the signage on this Smith manure spreader. So I want to reconstruct the lettering styles to match the original lettering on this 130 year old manure spreader. Thanks for being an integral part of this restoration project.
Spring for mugs, tee-shirts, sweatshirts and hoodies.
engels-coach-s...
#wheelwright #signpainting #ranching
Some do not understand the challenges and thus the satisfaction of manual skills. Thank you for showing the way it was originally done.
Watching from the Netherlands. Sometimes the internet is actually used for something nice, and this whole series is such an example. Well done 👍
As an retired signman who is now 80 years young, I have done a lot of hand lettering over the years. I was impressed by what you are trying to accomplish here and your struggles to try and do it right. Even most of the computer using newbies don't know how to correctly space lettering. If I may, I have a couple of suggestions for you. First, there is a big difference between mechanical kerning and visual kerning. A good sign layout must be done with visual kerning. The space between letters is not always the same measurement when spaced correctly. The space should be "visually" as close to the same as possible with the same amount of visual space between each letter. This is not always totally possible, but get as close as you can. Also, all letters are not the same width. An "A" for example must be wider at the bottom than a letter "B". An "M" or "W" is wider than the others and a letter "E" or "F" is slightly narrower. Another tip: Verticle stokes are wider than horizontal ones. If a verticle stoke is 1/2" a horizontal stroke should only be around 3/8". The center stroke of an "E" should not be centered but slightly above center. The same with a "B" or "H". Also, curved letters like the "S" and "O" are accenders and desenders, meaning they must be slightly above the line on top and below on the bottom in order to look optically the same height. Hope this helps a little bit.
you now your stuff....
........G'day from an 82 yo who worked in the art rooms of the packaging industry in the 60's & 70's creating carton designs for growers and packing sheds of fruit and vegetables.
Dave is the poster child of "Meticulous" . . . and "Perseverance"!!
Agreed
Just a small note on how much your content is appreciated, Dave... I got into this video 26 seconds after you posted it and there are already 10 upvotes.
Two thousand in an hour. That's impressive especially for this type of video.
IMHO, this is exactly the type of content RUclips was designed for. (That and pet videos 🤪)
@@petert3355 Cat videos
Hey Dave watching you reminded me of all the skills that are lost everytime a old timer like you or myself passes.
I'm glad that you are preserving part of your learned skills in a video library.
I second that!
Dave, those "caps" on the letters are called serifs - you have a serif font in the photo with decorative serifs on some of the letters. The original font you drew is a "sans serif" font. Others have already suggested, and I agree, blowing up the photo, printing it full size and tracing it will give you the most accurate results. The photo can be easily enlarged to full-scale in Photoshop or another graphics app, then take it to any FedEx printing center and they can print it for you full size on a single sheet. Then use a pounce wheel to perforate the outline of each letter using the wheel to trace the outline on the paper, tape the paper to the wood, and use a chalk-filled pounce bag to make a dotted outline of each letter.
I learned about kerning and serifs back in the mid 60s when I worked for a sign painter part time while I was in high school. Good times. My other job was as a pin-setter in a bowling alley. Not such good times.
do you live on Zzyzx Road?
I’ll add my thanks to the other viewers that found and contributed better photos.
Another great video , another lesson , Mr Engels calm voice and demeanor could teach and demonstrate all day as far as I'm concerned . Looking forward to the next one 👍🏴
The "swoopy" parts of the letters such as the M and A are often called a "swash." In the 70s when I was in Commercial Art school, one of the popular typefaces was 'Bookman Swash' and was seen every where. You hand is great and you have a good eye. It is all looking great!
This looks amazing! Thank you for continuing the work you do. I love that we as a community can help you, too. You're a true craftsman with dedication to making sure your reconstructions and restorations are historically accurate, and I appreciate you taking the time to show us all that you do.
Dave thank you so much
Love how the viewers helped with so many good suggestions Its tuff when people watch can't imagine doing it with a camera My uncle and dad would ask those people who "know how and can spell" they would hand them the drip rag to hold lol
Read a comment they said try french curve good idea And easy to find with school supplies (student set)
Love the old school scale rule
Thank you
Best Wishes 😊
I appreciate the lesson in fonts. Your letting us watch over your shoulder gives us confidence we can do lettering too.
It is an absolute joy to set and watch, listen, and learn someone work at something to get it as right as he can. It is also nice to be able to come to a channel that teach aspects of craftsmanship that have been basically forgotten today. Thank you for your effort that you put out on your videos, enjoyed watching.
You're a true craftsman, and your attention to detail is over the top! A rare trait among younger tradesmen. I really appreciate your videos. They are also top notch.
Hi Dave, here's also a little tip about the lettering, it was already mentioned in the previous comments, the round letters like the "o", "u", "s", etc.. should be a little bigger. If you notice your drawing they look a little smaller. I was an old school sign maker for some 45 years. You are a true craftsman, I'm a big fan.
Commitment to Quality and craftsmanship in so many areas. Thank you!
I have never seen an Individual with so many different Talents. From heavy Welding to the Delicate stuff. A very Intelligent Man. Impressive!
Happy Tuesday Dave and Diane!
So happy to hear the community helps! Awesome people in the comments sharing all kinds of cool things. Always a story to read. :)
hi Dave, I too was trained as a graphic artist. Even though you're an acomplished tradesman in many ways the business of lettering and typography is another world altogether. Letter-spacing or kerning is really more visual than by measurement. if your brave enough to put you rule down and trust your eye I assure you that all will become clear, your almost there, just trust in your instinct. Stu UK
Heh- "Use the Force, Luke,"
I was learning about layout, cut and paste, and lettering before Photoshop. I was lettering with Leroy templates and drafting pens. You mentioned kerning, which I never heard of, but my drafting instructor told me it was equal area between letters and not equal space. RUclips is great for feedback but I have learned a lot from watching how you work. Thank you for sharing your talents with the rest of us
......................Thanks for sharing Dave! Great job mate. Cheers and God bless.
Put in a Lotta good details into your work and your try to be as precise as you can be I appreciate that very much and that’s why I watch you is because I enjoy ever say that you’re doing I’m 79 years old and I would sure love to work with here to learn more out of here and maybe teach you a few size that I know but you do such a beautiful job
I really admire meticulous historical research.
It's the effort and attention to detail I admire in Mr Engels, manual talent I find more impressive than any computer or computer driven machine , and as a caveat , I admire the creative process of designing those electronic , er , marvels . Just in case there's a critic out there 🤔
I worked in a bill board shop in the 70’s and watched the “mechanics” lay out letters that were as much as 8 foot tall. All they used was a charcoal Pencil. I was amazed at their skills.
Wow, using the graph paper was a genius idea for layout!
Fascinating! While we can play with lettering like pros, one must appreciate the time and effort that were required to get signs of long ago to look balanced. It was a fussy, fiddly labor of love.
This was a blast from the past for me. When I started in graphic design I learned doing it all by hand like you are doing here. Then I progressed to Letraset machines and then Mac desktop publishing. Thanks for the blast from the past.
Hand setting and then model 5 Linotype
+ That's what I was reminded of , my first mac lab top designing signs and banners for the church .
Defently looks more like the original artwork. We appreciate all that you do.
What a job , the icing on the cake! Just like the spreader hand made !👍🏻👍🏻
Alot of people don't realize , just how much thought , work and calculation goes into making a sign .
Dave your make due drafing table shows 2 of your trade marks ! Your Farrier hammer that you use for everything and your work bench/table saw !! Your 2 most used tools. THANKS for taking your time to include us in your work!
Devils always in the details, but with your persistent attention, you nailed it!
Great video Dave, sure glad you're happy with the lettering now. Stay safe around there and keep up the fantastic videos. Fred.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge skills and abilities with us. I am very impressed with your design and art skills when it comes to striping.
Basically 'Measure twice, cut once'. Well done.
Thanks, Dave for a very interesting and creative video. I love it.
Just a thought for the next time you need to do lettering and have a photo. Get a screen shot then print it off. If you have a printshop or copy copy you can take your print and have them blow it up to the size you need. Then you can trace that blow up if you need to. Saves me a lot of time trying to match it thru trial and error. Thanks for sharing. See you Friday
My grandmother had horse drawn cultivars, manure spreader and a thrasher. I imagine they all went to scrap. My grandfather died young and a neighbor helped her with all things on the farm. When she passed she left everything to them which felt right with the rest of the family. Us grandkids helped with her garden and taking care of the house. She was born in 1898.
Nice to have people who really care and help you. Great job.
from France I've been watching all your videos for many years and I'm amazed by all your talents. For this kind of work I used to use slides and now I use a photo with a video projector.
Congratulations and thank you for popularizing all your projects.
So enjoy a master craftsman at work refurbishing any project 😊
I knew a guy who could copy anything in any style and letter type by eye. A real art form IMHO.
That looks tons better. Glad you found a solution worked and that so many wonderful knowledgeable people were able to help with
I love it! Old school using a pocket knife for trimming the paper to adjust the letters!!
I’m just here to drink my coffee and enjoy the history.
Kerning. About 20 or so years ago I did a desk top publishing course at one of our local colleges, It was primarily with the Adobe products, Photoshop, InDesign and their publishing programs. The terminology of the word Kerning was used for the spacing of letters, so when you mentioned this that you had referred to, it all came flooding back to what my lecturer had spent a few sessions showing the group how to apply it.
I was doing this course to improve my skills at producing a monthly newsletter. It has also enhanced my other computer skills.
I admire your attention to the detail and accuracy of your restoration to this project.
I really admire you Dave 👏👍👌❤️"God bless you and your family" 💓🙏
Your sepia work brings back memories of my cable network planning I did at Telkom, before we went over to computers. We put baby powder on the sepia to prevent smudging. Thanks for your interesting work.
As always. Totally logical and methodical approach to graphics. Excellent work.
You are as much artist as a craftsman. In my engineering drafting classes I learned about kerning, and not always got it right. (This was in the days before computer drafting) I am more technically minded than artistic. Good video. Thanks.
Thanks to you Mr. and Ms. Engel !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another sign painters trick that might help you. You could have taken the photo and either scaled it up to match the size you need or projected it onto paper that is the correct size to fit the wagon. Then just trace the art so it perfectly matches the original.
^This^
Apologies theragingdolphinsmaniac4696 didn't see this until posted my own comment. The only difference is I'm asking the keyboard critics to supply 'the artwork' and show their 'perfect work pieces'
@@philhunt9297i am a professional designer and primarily do this digitally with photoshop but a sign painter I know uses an old projector. The hand painting is the hard part.
Dave... something to consider for the next lettering project. If you are able to get an image, such as this one, you can take a screen shot of the image, open the image in a basic image editor, crop the image so you just have the lettering, then scale to suit the space you have. The image may not be crystal clear but it should provide enough clarity to trace onto a new sheet or use as a rubbing.
I think the serifs on the letters are wonderful! You are a real artist; there is no vinyl letters in your life! TM long time viewer
I worked for a company that some cranes and such. The owner had a friend that was a sign painter, it was truly amazing to watch him work! He also re-lettered the old steam engines for the local steam club. He never got in a hurry, just methodical and meticulous. It was truly a pleasure to watch him work. I learned so much working for that company, it has been really rewarding to me now as I have my own company.
Amazin that you can do this by hand. Well Done !
Dave I admire your patience your pride in your work is matched by the respect of many for your craftsmanship
Your little pedestals are called serifs and fonts with them are serif fonts, without them are called sans serif (without serif). I really enjoy watching and hearing your thought process thank you for all the videos you post.
Kudos to those who sent in the clearer picture. Always good to learn something new. "Kerning"..... I did some amateur Calligraphy, and KNEW there had to be some sort of process for figuring that letter spacing out! Personal thanks to the Graphic designer who spread that info!
Once again thanks for the video.
As a few viewers have pointed out, kerning is visually equalizing space between letters. I was told by my Typography Teacher not to look at the black of the letters but rather the white between them. He called it „Weißraum“ (german for White Room or White Space). I love your content. Greetings from Germany 🇩🇪
It's interesting that you mention 'white space'. I used to compile village newsletters as i'm pretty good on a computer and Publisher. The newsletter would normally be 28 'sides'. I have no training whatsoever on designing, but when I was putting it together, the content was shapes that I would move around to make it fit and the 'white space' was key to the final layout.
@@terry6131 EXACTLY design is always a balance between what is there and the empty space between. On macro-(layout) and micro level (letters). Our teacher urged us to try to shape the empty space interestingly. For example: Old handwritings from medieval and later printings use fancy kapital letters to shake/loosen up otherwise very dense text(deserts). However - The balance is very delicate. To much and you dig a hole 🕳️⛳️🪦
The R and I need to be kerned together, also. While you are researching kerning, go down the rabbit hole of ligatures in typesetting and sign painting! (I was a hand set letterpress printer in the 70's before it faded into obscurity.)
I really appreciate you taking the feedback and correction and saying thank you instead of reacting badly to it. I thought your original sketch was all right but with the better pictures and notes about kerning it is going to look a whole lot better. It is very nice to see people take feedback with grace.
I used to spend hours on early electronic TV caption generators kerning stuff by eye. There's no right or wrong, only what looks good.
great job Dave
My great grandfather was a pinstriper for Fischer Carriage company in the early 1900s in Manhattan nyc
That's really cool 😊
That is cool.
@@dianeengel4155 Fischer built the Cadillac body for many years
"BODY BY FISCHER "
Dave. I love your attention to details it’s the little things that make a difference my background as a hobby is building Hotrod,s ‘its the same thing it’s the small things your eye doesn’t catch it but you know that’s it’s correct Whether it’s a position of a bolt head or the paint job that makes the difference
Thanks for posting Dave
Your followers watch and comment on your projects because a lot of them are like-minded people like you! They see an opportunity to help. They are interested in technology and engineering and love restoration. When they help with info or photos of your projects it links them with you on a higher level. Like you said RUclips has made this interaction between provider and viewers possible. We’re just one big restoration family! Thank you Dave for your channel and all it requires to operate and I don’t want to forget the lovely Mrs., she deserves praise for what she does! This is starting to sound like a Emmy award thank -you, so I’ll sigh off till next time! Thanxz
Thank you
Kerning is the spacing between lettering of the entirety of the entire word to create a visually pleasing text
I have a friend who is a sign writer for classic trucks and stuff and he explains this to me a few years ago. There are no hard and fast rules and every job was done to the satisfaction of the individual. Sometimes they would pounce from a perforated template and a chalk or charcoal bag.
One sign writer can recognise who did the work by their style etc!
GrEat video. I truly enjoy every video. I have learned very much from your work. Thanks
Let’s hope no one comes along with yet another option once the paint is dry, absolute legend Dave.
The top and bottom embellishments are I believe “Serifs” from the French language.
Good work you do sir as always.
Because chiseling in stone works best if you start sideways, not straight on.
I was so relieved when you fixed the 'I' in Manufacturing - looks good!
Music to your art work,brought memories of my art lesson back from 82to 85happy times,favourite,subject were art,tech drawing,woodwork,metalwork,and english.thank your for your work from Ireland.
good one Dave lot of work for the painting I had no idea see you on the next one Rich
Those caps/pedestals on the letters are called serifs. My book recomendation: The Elements of Typographic Style, Robert Bringhust.
Thank you
Thank you for your time.
I needed to transfer old photos onto wood and paper years ago, so I got hold of a vintage overhead projector.
I can photocopy onto transparency sheets, then place them onto the overhead projector to cast the image onto a vertical surface in order to replicate it.
If I need it larger, or smaller, it's just the matter of moving the projector closer or farther away to get the desired size.
I suppose you could project it right onto the side of the spreader... but it would leave opportunity for things to go wrong, should the projector get knocked, etc.
I think having those paper templates is an historic plus for down the road.
Keep doing good things. Your videos take us away from current events.
Never knew that term either. When I had to replicate a brand or logo on leather, I would blow the photo up (or shrink it) to the size I needed, lay some tracing paper over my laptop and trace it. Then transfer it to the leather. Worked every time. Very little was freehand. When I used my tooling stencils, I started in the middle just the same as you did, and just fudged the spacing a little to make it look right.
It's all in the details. I know absolutely nothing about carriage trade except what I've learned from you, Dave. My speciality is auto electricals, specifically Citroën DS. Consider: from 9/68-2/69 we got one style of dashboard. The only one of it's type in the world. We got maybe 1000 cars so equipped. No paperwork exists anywhere, except from my own hand and careful observation. From 3/69 we got essentially the same dash as everyone else.
My whole point is sometimes, you make a mistake, despite best efforts. Lord knows, I've done that.
Looking att the comments one can see the difference in opinion between "copy" and "redo/rebuild". I would think, after watching Dave's videos for some years now, the excellent craftsman in him is more into redo/rebuild than simply copying as some suggest. It should not be any surprise that he prefers "the old craftmans way" concerning making the signs, when he now reaches the final steps of finishing starting from a pile of bad firewood and some asorted bent irons.
Hats off, I love the care and insight Dave gives us, in bringing almost forgotten knowledge to life.
Thank you, Dave, for bringing us along.
Nice comment. Thank you.
I truly applaud your working skills and attention to detail, you certainly demonstrate the differences between great and mediocre. My philosophy is as yours - near enough is never good enough!
It looks great to my totally untrained eye. Thanks.
Amazing!
Wow,, who would have thought that they would use a format that Aermotor also used for the tails of their windmills around 1890. With both companies based in Chicago, seeing the word manufacturing flowing up and down and the Co inside of each letter is just like the mill tail format that was used for a certain time period by Aermotor. Naturally the fonts are completely different but I wonder who saw whose layout first to copy it.
One more note on fonts:
The "caps" on the bottoms of the letter stems are called "serifs." Fonts without them (like those on RUclips) are called "san serif." Serifs make letters more legible and easier to read.
Look on your computer under Fonts. Times New Roman is a serif font. Helvetica is a san serif font.
That's probably TMI, but there you are.
Beautiful ! 🌟
Artistry!! "[...]some old school, before computers, cut and paste[...]"
Very good.
Rebuilding a wagon from a pile of rust and rotten wood scraps is one skill set. Recreating signage from the past is something totally different. I use tracing paper often and have found a new source as close as your grocery store. Parchment paper.
Fascinating!
Nice work !!
When you first took us thru this, a few weeks/months ago, I wondered if the advertisements you were looking at actually depicted what was done on their implements. It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to imagine that the demo versions might be more fancy than their regular production. You've made it really clear how difficult it is to figure out what this spreader actually looked like when it was new.
Looks like you could use an overhead projector, like we used in school, to project the picture onto the tracing paper. Might come in handy for future projects. Graphic artist make it look so easy, but yours looks good too. 👍🏻
Presente: Cordial Saludo desde Jalisco Mx. Siempre pendiente.
My hat is off to you. I just don't have the ability to draw, and with the damage my hands have suffered over the years I sometimes struggle to even write legibly.