Aye m8! This is probably the most respectful and honest way to illustrate widespread misunderstandings 🙏🏼 I am very impressed about the courage and determination put into this gem of editing and explaining of a ’sensitive’ subject. SwT might not have the biggest crowd supporting but your content has a level of quality that is outstanding!
Was on @ChasingLatitudes channel, where he brought this video into the conversation. Recommends and represents real sailing and you are on the short list of those to follow. You have a new fan / new sailor who looks forward to your continued insight! Looking forward to the day you guys team up to fight RUclips sailing evil and save the interwebs!
Excellent explanation and video. It‘s point on not only about the various rudder setups and yacht designs depending on age and purpose but to counter the so called „bluewater experts“ on this platform. Most if not all of the high-subscriber sailing channels are sponsored by one or more suppliers to preach their marketing speech. May it be sails, equipment or services, purchase advise at hourly rates, or even sell their own yacht line. It‘s outrageous how many fools sail or pretend to sail and create videos, it‘s comedy, it‘s tragedy, it sheds a wrong light about seafaring. Huge compliments Thomas for this piece, it must have been an enormous amount of work. ❤
Thanks Thomas for another great video. I bought my Jeanneau 54Ds based partly on your video about how YOU decided what you wanted when looking to buy your boat. My boat has many of the same aspects as your boat. Modern hull design,Dual Helm, 54 feet (Waterline), deep keel (7.5`) aft cockpit. tall powerful rig. I do not have twin rudders but I always thought your argument for twin rudders was sound. I still hear people telling me things like the boat is too big to solo or it is a production boat (Yada Yada Yada). I just learned to ignore these people as most of them never actually leave the dock anyway.
Well done Thomas. Such a good video. You are so right. I have been to Ellös to see Hallberg Rassy and the rudder stock on their twin rudders is solid (note solid) stainless steel…
Great, facts rather than BS. Learned a lot by watching your channel Thomas. One of the best for voyage planning, meteorology and boat maintenance. Thanks
Thank you Thomas. We needed to see this video. Finally someone put this on the agenda. Own a Beneteau First from 1986. Spade rudder and keel bolts. Have maintained the boat and changed the bolts. They were just as nice after over 36 years. I have owned a long-keeled boat, but it rolled on the sea so it was useless for oversea sailing. Now I have a stable boat that is comfortable to sail with. Thanks for another great video. Greetings from Norway.
My two take away messages I understood from lady K sailing videos were #1 that flat bottomed yachts crash harder on the waves that a more v- shaped ones #2 twin rudders are less maneuverable _without_ a bow thruster due to little water current from the single prop past the rudder.
It so funny listening to most "Sailors" They will bash a hunter monohull for having a B&R rig with no backstay, then turn around and tell you how much they would love to have a catamaran(which overwhelming majority have no backstay). Every captain has an opinion on what's best. Fact is EVERYTHING on a boat is a tradeoff. There will be benefits and downsides to every design choice. The key to sailing is understanding those on YOUR boat and making decisions that fit your sailing plan. The hard part is it is very difficult getting the experience yourself to see the true ups and downs to a design. So we defer to those we think have the experience, but then the opinions sometimes take over the facts. It was great seeing your point of view on some of these design decisions. Backed up by so much experience.
One of your best videos, dude. I think you just put into words what many of us thought or imagined. Thanks for backing all this with you expertise and eloquence.
just watched chasing latitudes ,great to hear from genuine sailors and there advices and opinion as safety at sea is paramount ,besides that fixing thing`s is a drag especially if you have other`s on your boat ( relationship stress ) thankyou for your time and thought`s
Coming here from Chasing Latitudes and appreciate your candor (as with the CL channel)... Experience over book knowledge or second hand "truth" is what I listen to and want to hear... Thanks to you both for telling it like it is... The sailing world is better for it! 👍😎👍
I also grew up sailing. My dad used to use me as crew on his P Cat catamaran in races when I was just out of diapers, didn't know how to swim yet and I didn't ware a life jacket because I don't think they had kids versions yet. He also built me a little kids boat from plans that he saw in Popular Mechanics magazine. Then when I was six or seven years old, I started racing Naple Sabots and joined a junior sailing program when I was eleven. I ended up winning the Junior Naple Sabot Nationals with five 1st places but they disqualified me because I was one or two months older than I was supposed to be which I didn't know about. Heck, they let me enter, I paid them the money and got a T-shirt and the lunch package but they didn't inform me till after I had won. Then I got into Laser racing and got 6th in the Laser North Americans and 6th in the Flight of the Lasers. I was even unofficially in the high school sailing team but my grades and class schedule wouldn't allow me to officially be in it. I was in the junior racing sailing program all the way through high school. Then I got into crewing and racing on many other small and large boats and purchased a Tornado catamaran which I won my first and only race in with four 1st and one 2nd. It was an Olympic qualifying race with over 120 boats on the starting line. I didn't have the money to compete in the Olympics as I was eighteen years old. I sold that boat due to not having enough positive buoyancy in the bows and got a Nacra 6.0. I also sailed aboard TeVega for a year which is a 165 ft. gaff rigged schooner that is now called DEVA. Now I want to finish sailing around the world on a Cyber 48. I'll probably start the build process this summer. A twin rudder helps you from getting weather helm when healing over. I like twin rudders and it's much better to have a twin rudder on the newer wider transom racing boats due to them healing over for the most part but the twin rudder also has other advantages. Yes, two is always better than one :) At 9:35 into the video, that's a very nice racing boat! I do like two helms better than one depending on the boat but on a Cyber 48 design, they only have one helm on the starboard side. I'm OK with it but it's not the best for racing because I like looking at the weather side of my sails. I totally agree with all that you said and you hit all the points that I would have. I've seen all of those videos that you talked about and think I spoke up about one or two in the comments. One of the things that hinders performance is weight. This applies to both catamarans and mono hulls. A lightweight boat will sail much faster and you also have to consider the laminar wind flow above the waterline. I think my favorite mono hull design for cruising would be the new Distant Shores aluminum boat. That thing is supper nice!
The main reason for twin rudders ist that the hulls are getting wider and wider and you might loose control with a single rudder during strong heeling. Thats why modern racers have twin rudders because they often sail on the edge to get maximum performance. Double rudders create more drag but in this case safe boat control is more important. For us cruisers this argument doesn't count because we usualy don't sail under such conditions and if it once happens we can reduce the sail area and so the heeling. Our disadvantage is the higher price and reduced manoverability at low speed in connection with the engine. So it is true - I wouldn't buy such boat without a bow thruster because the common maneuvres with a single rudder and engine control are not possible like turning on the plate at low speed. At the end it is a fashion which swaps over from the racers to the cruising boat without bringing us rely advantages . May be a bit more safety against loosing the rudder but that is not a real issue when your boat is well maintained. But a single rudder is in the shadow from the keel but a double rudder is exposed the anything floating on the surface. So I don't know .....
All opinions, take what rings true to you as social media is mostly full of 'content'. I agree with both Thomas and your points. Never black or white. I also ride road sports motorbikes and the latest innovations that come straight from the race track, often don't transmit or have better function when actual road riding, but makes good 'selling points' on the sales floor.
Great video once again Thomas! I love how you speak your truth and denounce all the BS that is said on many other sailing channels. Especially love the comment about how youtube sailing storms are 25 to 30 knots 🤣😂
Don’t be afraid to offend the bullshit artists on RUclips- Thomas don’t worry - You are one of few genuine experienced people - tell the truth and shout it from a mountain- We are your fans
Hi Thomas, thanks for sharing. Do modern hull designs slam or slap coming off of waves more than a more traditional design. I'd be interested to know under what conditions you experience your boat pounding in big waves compared to older designs. Thanks!
No two ways about it there is more exposure with twin rudders but at least if you hit something, hopefully the other rudder can be made operational with minimal effort. I'm a structural engineer and something we do in the seismic design of buildings is, in a seismic event, we design specific components of the building to fail (and more importantly dissipate energy) in a controlled manner that does not result in a building collapse (we call this ductile design). This thinking can be applied to rudder design. A rudder hit is not an "if" , its a "when" event- so design it so that it fails "gracefully" with minimal damage to the hull and/or supporting steerage gear. Stronger is not always better as this can have the tendency to move the problem to another more critical part of the boat. So if you design the rudder as a sacrificial component: 1) make sure it doesn't sink the boat. 2) make sure the linkages controlling the 2 rudders can be easily uncoupled from each other with minimal effort and basic tools (in other words there has to be appropriate redundancy that one works without the other). Another great episode Thomas!
Thank you for contrasting with good information and your experience against the often contradictory contents of some sailing channels. One can only hope to be humble enough to learn from each of the many lessons the oceans and our boats will present to us every time we venture on.
Thanks for this video, I will be looking to buy a boat in the very near future and I really like the info you've provided these past years, in fact your one of a small few you I trust. I hope to meet up with you durring my travels. Cheers
Interesting counterpoint. My take home is that regular maintenance makes a blue water sailboat and probably more importantly, makes a blue water sailor.
Wel said🎉 I’ve been sailing over 50 years and watch some of these other channel as entertainment and laugh at the lack of real experience and actual knowledge. Sad that there are people new to sailing that listen to misleading advice and hold these so called sailors is such high regard. They should come with a health warning. If you and I were to listen to them we would be sailing old tubs and not modern boats in excess of 50 feet, let alone doing it solo. Keep up the good work and fair winds.
Hi Thomas, I agree with you 100%. These people are probably never ever sailed a modern yacht. They sale around in boats 50 years old like Uma and they pulled it apart a couple of times and rebuild it because it was falling apart and bubbling on the side And now they’re going to make this boat so rigid it will probably fall apart anyway because there’s gonna be no given it by saying it’s cheaper to build two runners. What a load of nonsense you’ve got double of everything I don’t understand what they’re thinking it’s like I say in Australia if you’re going to buy a four-wheel-drive just drive around the streets you are better off just buying a two wheel drive because they’re cheaper to build and you’re not pushing around another differential , to me, it is pretty obvious if you buy 50 year old boat/yacht, you are get old technology , anyway, keep up the good work Thomas good video , hopefully a few people will listen to you if not that’s a problem , Cliff from Logan City, Queensland, Australia 🇦🇺 I’m on the big island 🏝️
Hi Skipper, you are completely right. The First 40.7 with the sad loss of lives was a hard raced charter yacht with several keel incidents before the fatal loss.Too many sailors hit the bottom with their keels without assessing the damage. Be aware of the dangers en stay consequent.Cheers.
Just discovered your channel. Great video. Most of these channels spend their time fixing their boat (wrongly) rather than sail then claim being experienced. Just got myself a modern BTC-22 with twin rudders and tiller. The tiller feels a tad heavier than previous one rudder Surprise I had but getting adjusted to it. Not tried in higher winds yet so can't assess stability yet.
Sent from Chasing Latitudes. Thank you for your correct content. The design of the rudder comes about from the ability of the designer. The better the designer the less compromises one might have to suffer.
Once again Thomas I respect your objective, honest and respectful ways and also your big knowledge discussing various issues. I sail an old 70's strong long keel Danish 28 foot built boat with encapsulated keel and a hang on rudder as an extension of the keel.Pretty simple old design which I love. Thanks for this video. Keep safe out there.
I found one of the channels you mentioned the first day I started looking for a sailboat again. While I don't have decades of ocean experience, I have been on the ocean before, so some things that were said on this channeel didn't Add up given what I learned about corrosion and different metals vs salt water. Thank you for making this video, and validating that uneasy feeling some of us get when viewing these channels
Well said Thomas. Thanks for bringing up this subject. Some sailing channels offer their services to carry out boat surveys. They are convinced that their experience is sufficient! Just being experienced on one boat and often the same type. Sailing with Thomas = a real sailing channel not just a youtuber :)
Thank you for a well thought out analysis. I sail a lot in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska. We have an abundance of floating logs and tree branches, so in that case a rudder in alignment with the keel is preferrable for protection, but I can see how the modern "wide bodied" sterns would find the twin rudders desirable in other parts of the world. Our old, 43' Atkins design is slow compared to the modern boats, but actually more comfortable sailing upwind (no pounding) and it gets us there with all of our teeth fillings intact. However, our boat is nearly uncontrollable when reversing, so when I watched your boat being steered backwards into the marina slip, it surely got my envy button!
I agree to what you are saying, and i think it’s important to think over every opinion we get from the internet, most of the time people have self interest in their comments. And it’s never wrong to try and understand why newer boats are designed the way they are. I have witnessed For my self a bolt on keel boat run a ground hard and still have the keel be ok for many miles after. Also there is no denying the speed benefits from newer designer hulls. Like i would rather sail little faster to get away from a storm than to be stuck in a storm in an older slower boat.
Thanks very much Thomas. This kind of sober commentary is invaluable. There's too many people doing too much idle talking. I'm looking at another yacht now. My first 50 footer had a single rudder. I won't go back to it for a number of reasons. Thanks again.
Thank you Thomas. I have an Azuree 46 (Rob Humphries design) with twin rudders. She steers so well and very light. Another benefit of twin rudders you could mention is that they are canted so when heeled, the rudder has more lateral force than upward force you would get with a single rudder. Hence there is a lot control when heeled over and broaching is very rare. As broaching is generally considered dangerous, I think this adds a huge amount of safety.
The only concerns I have for the twin set up are the fact that they are not protected from debris like logs, by the keel, and here in California there are giant patches of floating kelp, that tend to sluff off when parted by the keel thus avoiding the single rudder. The dual rudder boats can have a massive nest of kelp clinging to the rudders. All other points say two is the way to go. Thank you for the great videos and sharing your awesome journey.
It's not just sailing, every aspect of youtube is full of self appointed experts. Thanks Thomas, it's a conversation that needs to be had ... You're right, Experience with your own boat is probably the most important thing and an understanding of its and your capabilities. ❤
Very good, usefull and important video. I sailed long keeled yachts from 1945, 70ties and now a long keeled Pacific Seacraft, 80ties design (Dana 24).... I am very much considering a modern hull with twin rudder these days and found your video v helpful. Fair winds!
Hi Thomas, thanks again for sharing your experience with us. Although I have no doubt that dual rudders perform petter than single rudders, I am afraid they also expose you to some additional dangers: This year in Greece we experienced the death of a sailor who fell overboard from the bow of her boat during the Aegean600 regatta. It appears that she was hit on the head by one of the (sharp) dual rudders. Not only are these further out, they also have an angle outwards so hitting an object or a person at sea surface is far more likely. On the other hand a single rudder at the center is protected by the (much bigger and rounder) keel while it is also far less likely that a person or object might find himself at the centerline without being pushed to the side by the hull. And another comment on dual helm station redundancy: During my latest Atlantic crossing I was unfortunate to experience a steering cable failure, probably the most common type of failure. Unfortunately both helm stations became inoperable as, at least on my boat, they share the same cable! I was fortunate that the auto pilot offered some redundancy as it is fixed directly on the steering quadrant. Happy (more) sailing!
Falling overboard exposes a person to multiple dangers, that can result in injury and death. The best course of action is to take proper procedures so one does not fall overboard and to wear a proper safety harnesses at all times when at sea. The majority of dual helm, twin rudder systems on blue water yachts do not use a single cable tied to both helms/rudders to operate the system. On Be Free for example solid metal tubing is used at all locations and is redundant. Thomas lost a gear in one of his helm stations a while back, he just used the other station until he was able to obtain a new gear for the helm station and replace it. It all boils down to the proper design of the system, especially for blue water situations and knowing your vessel Cheers 🙂
Hey my friend! Thank you for sharing this story and for your support being here. I belive In this context it’s important to separate racing yachts from cruising yachts. Still things can happen and sadly sometimes with a fatal outcome. All the best
100% with you. Didn’t realise it was you that gave Geko the tow, one of my favourite channels. Also, if you take the ground, and your boat is designed to do so, twin rudders = stability
Agreed! Do not place much faith in RUclips video blogs 😉 An essential thing to understand about boat engineering is that saying we will strengthen it is terrible engineering. There is no way to build a skeg/spade strong enough to withstand even a six-knot impact from ice, a rock, or a big log (a big problem in many places). The critical point is that something must flex and bend to absorb force. So if we make the skeg super strong and it does not flex, it may rip right out of the hull, and the boat sinks. The force must go somewhere. So, based on that, here are the key points that I think about: Build a rudder designed for the tip to shear off on impact without ripping the entire post from the hull. Based on some 30-odd years of cruising, particularly in the high latitudes, I would never do so in a twin-rudder boat. For that matter I would not own a twin-rudder boat for cruising, but that’s me.
Thank you for this breakdown. I'm looking at my first boat, and while the ones you're sailing and talking about are out of my price range, you gave me some good information on what to look for on the ones that are, which are the 30-40yr boats.
Thanks for the good information. There is one thing I experienced with a single rudder boat that you did not mention. My boat was a very solid built center cockpit Cutter rigged Ketch. I had just had the standing rigging replaced and felt safe to try to see what happens on extreme angles of heel. It was in Boston Harbor, the wind was about 25 when I sheeted in all the sails and fell off the wind. I never buried the rail, but as the boat went over, even with the helm hard over to keep the boat from going to windward, she went to windward anyway. The reason was because as the angle of heel increased , the rudder also lifted and caused me to loose help control. The result was kind of a slalom course. This abviously would not happen with twin rudders.
Imagine telling Skip Novak that his pelagic 77 Vinson of Antarctica is not a good blue water design because of the wide transom and twin spade rudders 😂😂😂
@@thatitaliantrucker140 Vinson’s twin rudders are designed more along centerline with twin screw and not toed out. More of a setup for potential extensive motoring
@bojangles8837 Vinson is Vinson, one of a kind (technically 2) with very specific requirements, still by some people's superficial inexperienced/uneducated/biased judgement it would be a bad bluewater design... same as the new garcia exploration series, or the allures. Steve dashew said he prefers spades, but has used skeg in the past. Implementation of a particular design is as important as the design itself. Skeg hung doesn't automatically translate in safer, twin doesn't automatically mean bad/only for race. In many implementations the skeg is actually supported by the rudder not the other way. Ask Bob Perry. And many spades failed at the support not the rudder itself.
Skip told other people that before the vinson was built, that’s the funny part. By the way not because dual rudders are not blue water-capable, but because it’s not good for exploration in uncharted territories in antarctica. Exploration boats are in a niche of their own, not exactly what thomas is talking about here.
Hi Thomas, great to see your history and its reflected in the way you operate. You're right about two hulls being cheaper to produce, and Dick selling 4wdrives! I race on a mates 45ft Benny with dual rudders, it cruises awsome with the big beam up high on the windward side. But my 40ft Benny with single rudder is more agile and steers better in reverse.
Interesting perspective. What is your view on newer boats having thinner, less impact resistant laminates, the hull shapes slamming more and having a harsher motion?
Thomas, thank you very much for this video and greetings from Finland! I’ve never understood the resistance against modern hull designs by some of the youtubers. I sail a modern ’fat ass’ boat with dual rudder/helm configuration and I can tell anyone who wants to listen that it will beat anything I’ve sailed before, both in comfort but more importantly, speed. I started sailing in the 80’s and I will never look back to those days thinking the boats were better or safer. They were not.
Har fulgt deg en stund, men har ikke vært klar over bakgrunnen din. Spennende å høre hvor bred erfaring og mye kunnskap du har. Bra du tar opp temaer som dette👍
Last year I cut open the rudder in my old 1980 Catalina 38 to inspect it. I figured that after more than 40 years sitting in the water, there must be heavy corrosion. The stock was heavy SS pipe with some corrosion where the pipe stock met the fiberglass, but it wasn't as bad as I had feared. I epoxied in a smaller diameter SS heavy pipe inside of the old one to reinforce it. If I were not selling the boat, I'd rebuild the whole rudder in 5 years.
Fantabulous info… thank you… finally somebody who comments all these youtube “sailors”… well done Sir…. greetz from a HR Rasmus owner…go for the moment… not the fame
Just saw Latitudes is referencing to you . He is an advocate for dual helm as long as I can remember . It needs real offshore sailors to bringing out the facts, not the guys hopping from harbor to harbor and want to please their sponsors . Thanks again and brace for impact . However stay your course, it is the true bearing :-)
🎤💧 Thank you, Thomas, for sharing your vast knowledge and experience. The three combined ( four, counting Dick Beaumont) are not in the same league as you. You're a class act. I hope, for their sake and their many viewers, they watch, learn, and stop spreading misinformation. Once again, I salute your honor, intelligence, and kind disposition. 🫡 Thanks for sharing.
Good episode. UMA is more often wrong on their claims about sailboat design than right. It is just an example of people getting youtube views and thinking that it gives you credentials to understand something about yacht design.... Most of the channels are more of a lifestyle channels than sailing. For the two rudder system the only bad thing I have noticed is that the prop is in the middle so when you go to a pier it is more difficult to steer when going slow in windy conditions. I am comparing this to semi modern design with sdrive and one rudder. This coming from sailing in Baltic and as you know we are typical in piers or tied to rocks. I get your examples but when you add 10m/s wind from the side and close maneuvering in tight spaces you will have less control. With a sdrive and single rudder you can burst the prop wash directly to the rudder. Compared to a long keel yacht spade rudder two or one is always better in harbors. (My current boat is 37 ft and has no bow thruster) For the modern against new design my biggest complain is about the flat hull in front of the keel. The newer design tends to slam more than a bit older boats. But you can make new design with a different kind of hull design in front of the keel - you will loose some speed but not a lot. The slamming is especially annoying in the Baltic sea as we have a steep waves close to each others due to the shallow sea.
I have been sailing a twin rudder yacht (no bow truster) for many years and loved it. Also sailed for many years on single rudder yacht but actually like twin rudder more. Sailiig since the 70s on all kind of boats & yachts on clear and salt water
Ååååh! A short view of Tönsbergs real Viking Ships! :-) Yes, They had 1 rudder - 1200 years ago - but maybe 40 men with oars! :-) It's faster to row direct against the wind then tacking - or the Vikings problaby just wait for the correct wind direction - who knows :-) We only have had non-wooden boats for like 80 years. Best docking is done with help on shore and on deck! Thanks for your "daring" video Thomas. Be Free. (Köp en ny Norsk flagga! )
You are so right! I own a 2022 40.1 oceanis two rudders and wheels. I have writen to some of these people who think they know it all. I love twin rudders and love my boat its my fifth boat and have owned boats from full keel to new designs and the sail companies keep improving. my 40.1 sails between 7.5 to 9.5 knots most of the time i would not go back to a slow sail boat. I agree that some people are just opinionated without knowledge.
I agree with your statements. I have sailed a Dehler 36CWS and recently a Beneteau 40 with twin helm and rudder. I got the feeling the only negative was that with a twin ruder your prop is in the middle so you need some speed to manipulate the boat .
Agree with you. Eventhough I built my own boat from schratch, with single ruther. It was not meant for blue water cruising. It was built for slow sailing all year. Icy waters and hitting Scandinavian granite. Some I know has tried the same, with very costly repairs. In 25 years, my boat has zero repairs. But I absolutely agree with your arguments and how you present them. To me, the best boat is one built for the intended purpose.
Nice vid and topic! I saw Yachting monthly sail an Hallberg rassy 40c with twin rudders and they lost grip quite easy but when they sailed X-yacht 4.3 and J/45 they seemed to have a lot more control and both X 4.3 and J/45 have singele rudders. So i don`t think you can say that twin or single rudder is allways the best. My dream yachts are the X-yachts 4.0(single rudder) and if wanted a bigger boat a Swan 48(dubble rudder) so for me both single rudder and twin rudder would work if they are big enough and i think that is the real problem many times the rudders are to small. The sad thing is that Eurojackpott don`t want to give me the money...
Thomas, great stuff. I notice that you are on a 50 foot+ yacht with a lot of mass. Dosen't the modern hullshape, dual healm, and dual rudder configuration work less well in smaller yachts? For example, you can cross an ocean in a 35 feet full-keel yacht no problem, but would you do it in a 35 feet modern hull design? My point being that modern hull design to be ocean safe requires the mass of a 50+ feet yacht? Or am I missing the point?
In a world where companies are feared of litigation they cannot afford to sell knowingly inferior products so logic demands that the modern design has merit as backed by your statistics. It also seems to me that the owners of 50 year old boats need to justify their value when put against the faster and more spacious newer boat designs else they will lose their resale value… Thomas, I applaud your courage in performing the genuine service to the sailing community by sharing your wealth of experience. It would be great if you could review a number of options for single handed live aboard cruisers from modern designs from the major producers as well as perhaps aluminum designs like the Ovni?
If you look at all the super yachts, Volvo Ocean yachts, etc all have this modern design. It's called evolution! would you rather a production car from the 90s or a production car from 2010s onwards. The difference is vast, engineering is now a science as is design and we benefit from it. There is a reason why so many company's are adopting theses designs. Great content Thomas.
We have a saying in English, "empty vessels make the most noise". Vessel meaning "container", hit an empty saucepan with a spoon vs one full of soup. The channels you mention make a lot of noise and hence probably don’t contain much knowledge.
Always watch your videos and enjoy them. I have a simple question. When you refer to the wind speed you need, are you referring to apparent wind speed or true wind speed. Just curious! Thanks!
Hi, Thomas. A potential problem with aluminum is its metallurgical properties. Unlike, say, ferrous alloys or titanium, aluminum lacks what we engineers call an “endurance strength”. This makes it more susceptible to fatigue failure. Fatigue failure can be aggravated by surface defects, inadequate shaft diameter transition radius, corrosion pitting and galvanic corrosion. We frequently use titanium for seawater applications. This could be a more durable choice for the submerged wetted parts.
Thanks for this eye opening video, sharing your knowledge and your experience accumulated over 4 decades. clearly more viewers should subscribe to your channel. more videos like this is needed for the safety of the sailing community. I had a bolted keel on my sailboat and never had a problem but then it was not an old one. How many Hallberg Racy, Oyster or Swan have lost their keels!! Clearly you don't like B.S., you must have subscribed to your sailing compatriot channel ERIK AANDERAA.
haha. Like your sense of humor. In fact, two is always better than one. And the Camera panning to the sweet cake 😂 i'll have been thinking, and laughing for my self during the day. Takk Thomas, for at du deler din reise og erfaringer. En fryd å følge deg. Gleder meg allerede til neste episode ✌🏻
not a sailor but a thinker who has been involved in so many things... having surfed many many years an seen the evolution of surfboards, ever considered 3 rudders, biggest in the middle and two smaller ones closer to the side.. as the do in surfboards.. before thruster there were twin fins (as in rudders) however they were too skittish in bigger waves so the thruster was designed and are now the most common setup. some are now even using four skegss for speed
very thorough with knowledgeable explanation…i have owned and refitted a few old school , heavy displacement yachts for myself…i always felt more comfortable with skeg hung rudders and molded in hull keels…of course i sacrificed performance in light air, but thought i made it up in comfort and safety in heavy weather…I am not certain that all of my concerns about new hull designs could achieve the same level, but it certainly got my attention when hallberg rassey developed the new 40… my question regarding wider beam carried aft involves heavy following seas… i wondered how these boats would manage…i met a man who had just taken delivery of a new beneteau 42 and sailed it from ft lauderdale to new orleans across the gulf of mexico…he told me that he got into some relatively high following seas and fought the wheels the whole way…he said that the auto pilot couldn’t keep up so he had to hand steer… any thoughts on this matter? i sure like the performance of the newer, lighter yachts, with much more comfortable cockpits and cabins.. it would be nice to think i wouldn’t have to sacrifice anything in order to have more… great video!…thanks brother!
Might try trailing 300 ft of 5\8 line. At least this worked well for me with 35ft boat and 200ft line trailing seas, Very difficult steering became very manageable.
very good suggestion , but i’m thinking more about how the wide beam carried aft yachts ( I.E. hallberg rassey ) do in these conditions as they are , without a line to stabilize…thanks buddy…
Was brought her from @ChasingLatitudes channel. I appreciate a channel that is sailing based without drama injected into a plot. I am now a new subscriber and look forward to following your travels!
Great video this time. I love how you hammer down those RUclipsrs sometimes when I’m watching it I’m like laughing and crying at the same time happy that you gave them your opinion which I totally agree with .. even though I have a single rudder😅😅😅😅😅😂😂😂😂
Aye m8! This is probably the most respectful and honest way to illustrate widespread misunderstandings 🙏🏼 I am very impressed about the courage and determination put into this gem of editing and explaining of a ’sensitive’ subject.
SwT might not have the biggest crowd supporting but your content has a level of quality that is outstanding!
Thank you so much my friend 🙏🏻 Your kind words and support is most appreciated.
I’m so thankful for having so many good sailors here ⛵️
As a rudders and steering systems designer and manufacturer I can tell you that you are damn right in any ways. Cheers!
Was on @ChasingLatitudes channel, where he brought this video into the conversation. Recommends and represents real sailing and you are on the short list of those to follow. You have a new fan / new sailor who looks forward to your continued insight! Looking forward to the day you guys team up to fight RUclips sailing evil and save the interwebs!
Legend
Excellent explanation and video.
It‘s point on not only about the various rudder setups and yacht designs depending on age and purpose but to counter the so called „bluewater experts“ on this platform. Most if not all of the high-subscriber sailing channels are sponsored by one or more suppliers to preach their marketing speech. May it be sails, equipment or services, purchase advise at hourly rates, or even sell their own yacht line. It‘s outrageous how many fools sail or pretend to sail and create videos, it‘s comedy, it‘s tragedy, it sheds a wrong light about seafaring.
Huge compliments Thomas for this piece, it must have been an enormous amount of work. ❤
Thanks Thomas for another great video. I bought my Jeanneau 54Ds based partly on your video about how YOU decided what you wanted when looking to buy your boat. My boat has many of the same aspects as your boat. Modern hull design,Dual Helm, 54 feet (Waterline), deep keel (7.5`) aft cockpit. tall powerful rig. I do not have twin rudders but I always thought your argument for twin rudders was sound. I still hear people telling me things like the boat is too big to solo or it is a production boat (Yada Yada Yada). I just learned to ignore these people as most of them never actually leave the dock anyway.
I came here from Sailing Latitudes, and I’m glad I did. It’s nice to talk to a young “old salt”. Thank you for your work.
youre a legend
Well done Thomas. Such a good video. You are so right. I have been to Ellös to see Hallberg Rassy and the rudder stock on their twin rudders is solid (note solid) stainless steel…
Great, facts rather than BS. Learned a lot by watching your channel Thomas. One of the best for voyage planning, meteorology and boat maintenance. Thanks
Youre a legend sir and you are not getting the credit you deserve
Well said Thomas - calling out the bullshit is long overdue 🙏
Thank you Thomas. We needed to see this video. Finally someone put this on the agenda. Own a Beneteau First from 1986. Spade rudder and keel bolts. Have maintained the boat and changed the bolts. They were just as nice after over 36 years. I have owned a long-keeled boat, but it rolled on the sea so it was useless for oversea sailing. Now I have a stable boat that is comfortable to sail with. Thanks for another great video. Greetings from Norway.
My two take away messages I understood from lady K sailing videos were #1 that flat bottomed yachts crash harder on the waves that a more v- shaped ones
#2 twin rudders are less maneuverable _without_ a bow thruster due to little water current from the single prop past the rudder.
It so funny listening to most "Sailors" They will bash a hunter monohull for having a B&R rig with no backstay, then turn around and tell you how much they would love to have a catamaran(which overwhelming majority have no backstay). Every captain has an opinion on what's best. Fact is EVERYTHING on a boat is a tradeoff. There will be benefits and downsides to every design choice. The key to sailing is understanding those on YOUR boat and making decisions that fit your sailing plan. The hard part is it is very difficult getting the experience yourself to see the true ups and downs to a design. So we defer to those we think have the experience, but then the opinions sometimes take over the facts. It was great seeing your point of view on some of these design decisions. Backed up by so much experience.
One of your best videos, dude.
I think you just put into words what many of us thought or imagined.
Thanks for backing all this with you expertise and eloquence.
just watched chasing latitudes ,great to hear from genuine sailors and there advices and opinion as safety at sea is paramount ,besides that fixing thing`s is a drag especially if you have other`s on your boat ( relationship stress ) thankyou for your time and thought`s
Coming here from Chasing Latitudes and appreciate your candor (as with the CL channel)...
Experience over book knowledge or second hand "truth" is what I listen to and want to hear...
Thanks to you both for telling it like it is... The sailing world is better for it!
👍😎👍
Great Information Thomas, thank you. Yes there is lots of pretenders online.
I also grew up sailing. My dad used to use me as crew on his P Cat catamaran in races when I was just out of diapers, didn't know how to swim yet and I didn't ware a life jacket because I don't think they had kids versions yet. He also built me a little kids boat from plans that he saw in Popular Mechanics magazine. Then when I was six or seven years old, I started racing Naple Sabots and joined a junior sailing program when I was eleven. I ended up winning the Junior Naple Sabot Nationals with five 1st places but they disqualified me because I was one or two months older than I was supposed to be which I didn't know about. Heck, they let me enter, I paid them the money and got a T-shirt and the lunch package but they didn't inform me till after I had won. Then I got into Laser racing and got 6th in the Laser North Americans and 6th in the Flight of the Lasers. I was even unofficially in the high school sailing team but my grades and class schedule wouldn't allow me to officially be in it. I was in the junior racing sailing program all the way through high school. Then I got into crewing and racing on many other small and large boats and purchased a Tornado catamaran which I won my first and only race in with four 1st and one 2nd. It was an Olympic qualifying race with over 120 boats on the starting line. I didn't have the money to compete in the Olympics as I was eighteen years old. I sold that boat due to not having enough positive buoyancy in the bows and got a Nacra 6.0. I also sailed aboard TeVega for a year which is a 165 ft. gaff rigged schooner that is now called DEVA. Now I want to finish sailing around the world on a Cyber 48. I'll probably start the build process this summer. A twin rudder helps you from getting weather helm when healing over. I like twin rudders and it's much better to have a twin rudder on the newer wider transom racing boats due to them healing over for the most part but the twin rudder also has other advantages. Yes, two is always better than one :) At 9:35 into the video, that's a very nice racing boat! I do like two helms better than one depending on the boat but on a Cyber 48 design, they only have one helm on the starboard side. I'm OK with it but it's not the best for racing because I like looking at the weather side of my sails. I totally agree with all that you said and you hit all the points that I would have. I've seen all of those videos that you talked about and think I spoke up about one or two in the comments. One of the things that hinders performance is weight. This applies to both catamarans and mono hulls. A lightweight boat will sail much faster and you also have to consider the laminar wind flow above the waterline. I think my favorite mono hull design for cruising would be the new Distant Shores aluminum boat. That thing is supper nice!
The main reason for twin rudders ist that the hulls are getting wider and wider and you might loose control with a single rudder during strong heeling. Thats why modern racers have twin rudders because they often sail on the edge to get maximum performance. Double rudders create more drag but in this case safe boat control is more important. For us cruisers this argument doesn't count because we usualy don't sail under such conditions and if it once happens we can reduce the sail area and so the heeling.
Our disadvantage is the higher price and reduced manoverability at low speed in connection with the engine. So it is true - I wouldn't buy such boat without a bow thruster because the common maneuvres with a single rudder and engine control are not possible like turning on the plate at low speed. At the end it is a fashion which swaps over from the racers to the cruising boat without bringing us rely advantages . May be a bit more safety against loosing the rudder but that is not a real issue when your boat is well maintained. But a single rudder is in the shadow from the keel but a double rudder is exposed the anything floating on the surface. So I don't know .....
All opinions, take what rings true to you as social media is mostly full of 'content'. I agree with both Thomas and your points. Never black or white. I also ride road sports motorbikes and the latest innovations that come straight from the race track, often don't transmit or have better function when actual road riding, but makes good 'selling points' on the sales floor.
Great video once again Thomas! I love how you speak your truth and denounce all the BS that is said on many other sailing channels. Especially love the comment about how youtube sailing storms are 25 to 30 knots 🤣😂
Don’t be afraid to offend the bullshit artists on RUclips- Thomas don’t worry - You are one of few genuine experienced people - tell the truth and shout it from a mountain- We are your fans
Hi Thomas, thanks for sharing. Do modern hull designs slam or slap coming off of waves more than a more traditional design. I'd be interested to know under what conditions you experience your boat pounding in big waves compared to older designs. Thanks!
No two ways about it there is more exposure with twin rudders but at least if you hit something, hopefully the other rudder can be made operational with minimal effort. I'm a structural engineer and something we do in the seismic design of buildings is, in a seismic event, we design specific components of the building to fail (and more importantly dissipate energy) in a controlled manner that does not result in a building collapse (we call this ductile design). This thinking can be applied to rudder design. A rudder hit is not an "if" , its a "when" event- so design it so that it fails "gracefully" with minimal damage to the hull and/or supporting steerage gear. Stronger is not always better as this can have the tendency to move the problem to another more critical part of the boat. So if you design the rudder as a sacrificial component: 1) make sure it doesn't sink the boat. 2) make sure the linkages controlling the 2 rudders can be easily uncoupled from each other with minimal effort and basic tools (in other words there has to be appropriate redundancy that one works without the other). Another great episode Thomas!
Thank you for contrasting with good information and your experience against the often contradictory contents of some sailing channels. One can only hope to be humble enough to learn from each of the many lessons the oceans and our boats will present to us every time we venture on.
Excellent episode. I'm puzzled why big channels and no expertise can spout miss information. Thanks for this episode.
Thanks for this video, I will be looking to buy a boat in the very near future and I really like the info you've provided these past years, in fact your one of a small few you I trust. I hope to meet up with you durring my travels. Cheers
Interesting counterpoint. My take home is that regular maintenance makes a blue water sailboat and probably more importantly, makes a blue water sailor.
Wel said🎉 I’ve been sailing over 50 years and watch some of these other channel as entertainment and laugh at the lack of real experience and actual knowledge. Sad that there are people new to sailing that listen to misleading advice and hold these so called sailors is such high regard. They should come with a health warning. If you and I were to listen to them we would be sailing old tubs and not modern boats in excess of 50 feet, let alone doing it solo. Keep up the good work and fair winds.
Hi Thomas, I agree with you 100%. These people are probably never ever sailed a modern yacht. They sale around in boats 50 years old like Uma and they pulled it apart a couple of times and rebuild it because it was falling apart and bubbling on the side And now they’re going to make this boat so rigid it will probably fall apart anyway because there’s gonna be no given it by saying it’s cheaper to build two runners. What a load of nonsense you’ve got double of everything I don’t understand what they’re thinking it’s like I say in Australia if you’re going to buy a four-wheel-drive just drive around the streets you are better off just buying a two wheel drive because they’re cheaper to build and you’re not pushing around another differential , to me, it is pretty obvious if you buy 50 year old boat/yacht, you are get old technology , anyway, keep up the good work Thomas good video , hopefully a few people will listen to you if not that’s a problem , Cliff from Logan City, Queensland, Australia 🇦🇺 I’m on the big island 🏝️
Hi Skipper, you are completely right. The First 40.7 with the sad loss of lives was a hard raced charter yacht with several keel incidents before the fatal loss.Too many sailors hit the bottom with their keels without assessing the damage. Be aware of the dangers en stay consequent.Cheers.
Holly is an absolute legend, you too Thomas. Another great video. We’d all love to learn more about more career in Norway.
Just discovered your channel. Great video. Most of these channels spend their time fixing their boat (wrongly) rather than sail then claim being experienced. Just got myself a modern BTC-22 with twin rudders and tiller. The tiller feels a tad heavier than previous one rudder Surprise I had but getting adjusted to it. Not tried in higher winds yet so can't assess stability yet.
Sent from Chasing Latitudes. Thank you for your correct content. The design of the rudder comes about from the ability of the designer. The better the designer the less compromises one might have to suffer.
Thanks robert
Thanks for the thoughtful analysis of twin rudders, helms, and other characteristics of yacht design.
Once again Thomas I respect your objective, honest and respectful ways and also your big knowledge discussing various issues. I sail an old 70's strong long keel Danish 28 foot built boat with encapsulated keel and a hang on rudder as an extension of the keel.Pretty simple old design which I love. Thanks for this video. Keep safe out there.
Chasing Latitudes sent me over here. Thanks for the information here. We need facts and you are doing just that.
you're a legend
I found one of the channels you mentioned the first day I started looking for a sailboat again. While I don't have decades of ocean experience, I have been on the ocean before, so some things that were said on this channeel didn't Add up given what I learned about corrosion and different metals vs salt water.
Thank you for making this video, and validating that uneasy feeling some of us get when viewing these channels
Well said Thomas. Thanks for bringing up this subject. Some sailing channels offer their services to carry out boat surveys. They are convinced that their experience is sufficient! Just being experienced on one boat and often the same type.
Sailing with Thomas = a real sailing channel not just a youtuber :)
Thank you for a well thought out analysis. I sail a lot in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska. We have an abundance of floating logs and tree branches, so in that case a rudder in alignment with the keel is preferrable for protection, but I can see how the modern "wide bodied" sterns would find the twin rudders desirable in other parts of the world. Our old, 43' Atkins design is slow compared to the modern boats, but actually more comfortable sailing upwind (no pounding) and it gets us there with all of our teeth fillings intact. However, our boat is nearly uncontrollable when reversing, so when I watched your boat being steered backwards into the marina slip, it surely got my envy button!
Great job! That was a ton of information and great debunking of some sillyness. Thank you.
I agree to what you are saying, and i think it’s important to think over every opinion we get from the internet, most of the time people have self interest in their comments. And it’s never wrong to try and understand why newer boats are designed the way they are.
I have witnessed For my self a bolt on keel boat run a ground hard and still have the keel be ok for many miles after.
Also there is no denying the speed benefits from newer designer hulls. Like i would rather sail little faster to get away from a storm than to be stuck in a storm in an older slower boat.
Thanks very much Thomas. This kind of sober commentary is invaluable. There's too many people doing too much idle talking. I'm looking at another yacht now. My first 50 footer had a single rudder. I won't go back to it for a number of reasons. Thanks again.
Thank you Thomas. I have an Azuree 46 (Rob Humphries design) with twin rudders. She steers so well and very light. Another benefit of twin rudders you could mention is that they are canted so when heeled, the rudder has more lateral force than upward force you would get with a single rudder. Hence there is a lot control when heeled over and broaching is very rare. As broaching is generally considered dangerous, I think this adds a huge amount of safety.
The only concerns I have for the twin set up are the fact that they are not protected from debris like logs, by the keel, and here in California there are giant patches of floating kelp, that tend to sluff off when parted by the keel thus avoiding the single rudder. The dual rudder boats can have a massive nest of kelp clinging to the rudders. All other points say two is the way to go. Thank you for the great videos and sharing your awesome journey.
It's not just sailing, every aspect of youtube is full of self appointed experts. Thanks Thomas, it's a conversation that needs to be had ... You're right, Experience with your own boat is probably the most important thing and an understanding of its and your capabilities. ❤
Thank you Thomas!
BTW it is not bragging when you simply report about your life and achievements.
I just said this on Chasing Latitudes. The Vendee Globe yachts do not have twin rudders to save money.
;)
Very good, usefull and important video. I sailed long keeled yachts from 1945, 70ties and now a long keeled Pacific Seacraft, 80ties design (Dana 24).... I am very much considering a modern hull with twin rudder these days and found your video v helpful.
Fair winds!
Hi Thomas, thanks again for sharing your experience with us.
Although I have no doubt that dual rudders perform petter than single rudders, I am afraid they also expose you to some additional dangers: This year in Greece we experienced the death of a sailor who fell overboard from the bow of her boat during the Aegean600 regatta. It appears that she was hit on the head by one of the (sharp) dual rudders. Not only are these further out, they also have an angle outwards so hitting an object or a person at sea surface is far more likely. On the other hand a single rudder at the center is protected by the (much bigger and rounder) keel while it is also far less likely that a person or object might find himself at the centerline without being pushed to the side by the hull.
And another comment on dual helm station redundancy: During my latest Atlantic crossing I was unfortunate to experience a steering cable failure, probably the most common type of failure. Unfortunately both helm stations became inoperable as, at least on my boat, they share the same cable! I was fortunate that the auto pilot offered some redundancy as it is fixed directly on the steering quadrant.
Happy (more) sailing!
Falling overboard exposes a person to multiple dangers, that can result in injury and death. The best course of action is to take proper procedures so one does not fall overboard and to wear a proper safety harnesses at all times when at sea.
The majority of dual helm, twin rudder systems on blue water yachts do not use a single cable tied to both helms/rudders to operate the system. On Be Free for example solid metal tubing is used at all locations and is redundant. Thomas lost a gear in one of his helm stations a while back, he just used the other station until he was able to obtain a new gear for the helm station and replace it. It all boils down to the proper design of the system, especially for blue water situations and knowing your vessel
Cheers 🙂
Hey my friend!
Thank you for sharing this story and for your support being here.
I belive In this context it’s important to separate racing yachts from cruising yachts.
Still things can happen and sadly sometimes with a fatal outcome.
All the best
100% with you.
Didn’t realise it was you that gave Geko the tow, one of my favourite channels.
Also, if you take the ground, and your boat is designed to do so, twin rudders = stability
And traditional designs are not so good downwind in a blow.
…I am a cat guy..so twin rudders as standard
Agreed! Do not place much faith in RUclips video blogs 😉 An essential thing to understand about boat engineering is that saying we will strengthen it is terrible engineering. There is no way to build a skeg/spade strong enough to withstand even a six-knot impact from ice, a rock, or a big log (a big problem in many places). The critical point is that something must flex and bend to absorb force. So if we make the skeg super strong and it does not flex, it may rip right out of the hull, and the boat sinks. The force must go somewhere. So, based on that, here are the key points that I think about: Build a rudder designed for the tip to shear off on impact without ripping the entire post from the hull. Based on some 30-odd years of cruising, particularly in the high latitudes, I would never do so in a twin-rudder boat. For that matter I would not own a twin-rudder boat for cruising, but that’s me.
Thomas, loved your hyrid vid from a few months ago
Completely agree with your insights and opinions
Said the same at chasing latitudes
Thank you for this breakdown. I'm looking at my first boat, and while the ones you're sailing and talking about are out of my price range, you gave me some good information on what to look for on the ones that are, which are the 30-40yr boats.
Thanks for the good information. There is one thing I experienced with a single rudder boat that you did not mention. My boat was a very solid built center cockpit Cutter rigged Ketch. I had just had the standing rigging replaced and felt safe to try to see what happens on extreme angles of heel. It was in Boston Harbor, the wind was about 25 when I sheeted in all the sails and fell off the wind. I never buried the rail, but as the boat went over, even with the helm hard over to keep the boat from going to windward, she went to windward anyway. The reason was because as the angle of heel increased , the rudder also lifted and caused me to loose help control. The result was kind of a slalom course.
This abviously would not happen with twin rudders.
Imagine telling Skip Novak that his pelagic 77 Vinson of Antarctica is not a good blue water design because of the wide transom and twin spade rudders 😂😂😂
@@thatitaliantrucker140 Vinson’s twin rudders are designed more along centerline with twin screw and not toed out. More of a setup for potential extensive motoring
@bojangles8837 Vinson is Vinson, one of a kind (technically 2) with very specific requirements, still by some people's superficial inexperienced/uneducated/biased judgement it would be a bad bluewater design... same as the new garcia exploration series, or the allures. Steve dashew said he prefers spades, but has used skeg in the past. Implementation of a particular design is as important as the design itself. Skeg hung doesn't automatically translate in safer, twin doesn't automatically mean bad/only for race. In many implementations the skeg is actually supported by the rudder not the other way. Ask Bob Perry. And many spades failed at the support not the rudder itself.
Skip told other people that before the vinson was built, that’s the funny part.
By the way not because dual rudders are not blue water-capable, but because it’s not good for exploration in uncharted territories in antarctica.
Exploration boats are in a niche of their own, not exactly what thomas is talking about here.
They would, because they have no idea who Skip is, nor what he's done. 🤣
Hi Thomas, great to see your history and its reflected in the way you operate. You're right about two hulls being cheaper to produce, and Dick selling 4wdrives! I race on a mates 45ft Benny with dual rudders, it cruises awsome with the big beam up high on the windward side. But my 40ft Benny with single rudder is more agile and steers better in reverse.
Interesting perspective. What is your view on newer boats having thinner, less impact resistant laminates, the hull shapes slamming more and having a harsher motion?
Spot on. A small number of people talk absolute nonsense about what is and isnt a "blue water" boat, which then gets picked up and repeated.
Thomas, thank you very much for this video and greetings from Finland! I’ve never understood the resistance against modern hull designs by some of the youtubers. I sail a modern ’fat ass’ boat with dual rudder/helm configuration and I can tell anyone who wants to listen that it will beat anything I’ve sailed before, both in comfort but more importantly, speed. I started sailing in the 80’s and I will never look back to those days thinking the boats were better or safer. They were not.
Har fulgt deg en stund, men har ikke vært klar over bakgrunnen din. Spennende å høre hvor bred erfaring og mye kunnskap du har. Bra du tar opp temaer som dette👍
Last year I cut open the rudder in my old 1980 Catalina 38 to inspect it. I figured that after more than 40 years sitting in the water, there must be heavy corrosion. The stock was heavy SS pipe with some corrosion where the pipe stock met the fiberglass, but it wasn't as bad as I had feared. I epoxied in a smaller diameter SS heavy pipe inside of the old one to reinforce it. If I were not selling the boat, I'd rebuild the whole rudder in 5 years.
Bronze is the way to go for the rudder internals and the stock .
I would like to hear your story, Thomas !
Very excited to know how you came into sailing, how did you afford this lifestyle, etc......
Awesome Content
Fantabulous info… thank you… finally somebody who comments all these youtube “sailors”… well done Sir…. greetz from a HR Rasmus owner…go for the moment… not the fame
Just saw Latitudes is referencing to you . He is an advocate for dual helm as long as I can remember .
It needs real offshore sailors to bringing out the facts, not the guys hopping from harbor to harbor and want to please their sponsors .
Thanks again and brace for impact . However stay your course, it is the true bearing :-)
Thank you thank you
🎤💧
Thank you, Thomas, for sharing your vast knowledge and experience. The three combined ( four, counting Dick Beaumont) are not in the same league as you. You're a class act. I hope, for their sake and their many viewers, they watch, learn, and stop spreading misinformation. Once again, I salute your honor, intelligence, and kind disposition. 🫡
Thanks for sharing.
Professor/Captain Thomas.
Thank you!
Good episode. UMA is more often wrong on their claims about sailboat design than right. It is just an example of people getting youtube views and thinking that it gives you credentials to understand something about yacht design.... Most of the channels are more of a lifestyle channels than sailing.
For the two rudder system the only bad thing I have noticed is that the prop is in the middle so when you go to a pier it is more difficult to steer when going slow in windy conditions. I am comparing this to semi modern design with sdrive and one rudder. This coming from sailing in Baltic and as you know we are typical in piers or tied to rocks. I get your examples but when you add 10m/s wind from the side and close maneuvering in tight spaces you will have less control. With a sdrive and single rudder you can burst the prop wash directly to the rudder. Compared to a long keel yacht spade rudder two or one is always better in harbors. (My current boat is 37 ft and has no bow thruster)
For the modern against new design my biggest complain is about the flat hull in front of the keel. The newer design tends to slam more than a bit older boats. But you can make new design with a different kind of hull design in front of the keel - you will loose some speed but not a lot. The slamming is especially annoying in the Baltic sea as we have a steep waves close to each others due to the shallow sea.
I have been sailing a twin rudder yacht (no bow truster) for many years and loved it. Also sailed for many years on single rudder yacht but actually like twin rudder more. Sailiig since the 70s on all kind of boats & yachts on clear and salt water
Chasing Latitudes sent me. 😅 Love this video. Put bad information into he trash can where it belongs! Bravo.
Ååååh! A short view of Tönsbergs real Viking Ships! :-) Yes, They had 1 rudder - 1200 years ago - but maybe 40 men with oars! :-) It's faster to row direct against the wind then tacking - or the Vikings problaby just wait for the correct wind direction - who knows :-) We only have had non-wooden boats for like 80 years. Best docking is done with help on shore and on deck! Thanks for your "daring" video Thomas.
Be Free.
(Köp en ny Norsk flagga! )
You are so right!
I own a 2022 40.1 oceanis two rudders and wheels.
I have writen to some of these people who think they know it all.
I love twin rudders and love my boat its my fifth boat and have owned boats from full keel to new designs and the sail companies keep improving.
my 40.1 sails between 7.5 to 9.5 knots most of the time i would not go back to a slow sail boat.
I agree that some people are just opinionated without knowledge.
This is going to be as much fun as when Plukky mentioned some discrepancies in reported SA and Displacement. 🍿👀
I agree with your statements. I have sailed a Dehler 36CWS and recently a Beneteau 40 with twin helm and rudder. I got the feeling the only negative was that with a twin ruder your prop is in the middle so you need some speed to manipulate the boat .
Thank you for daring and knowing. Missing this for a long time.
Agree with you. Eventhough I built my own boat from schratch, with single ruther. It was not meant for blue water cruising. It was built for slow sailing all year. Icy waters and hitting Scandinavian granite. Some I know has tried the same, with very costly repairs. In 25 years, my boat has zero repairs. But I absolutely agree with your arguments and how you present them. To me, the best boat is one built for the intended purpose.
Introduced to your channel by Chasing Latitudes.
Nice vid and topic! I saw Yachting monthly sail an Hallberg rassy 40c with twin rudders and they lost grip quite easy but when they sailed X-yacht 4.3 and J/45 they seemed to have a lot more control and both X 4.3 and J/45 have singele rudders.
So i don`t think you can say that twin or single rudder is allways the best. My dream yachts are the X-yachts 4.0(single rudder) and if wanted a bigger boat a Swan 48(dubble rudder) so for me both single rudder and twin rudder would work if they are big enough and i think that is the real problem many times the rudders are to small. The sad thing is that Eurojackpott don`t want to give me the money...
Valuable commentary. Thanks.
Chasing Latitudes sent me, and i need some good sailing content so i am here to stay
Whoop whoop
Thomas, great stuff. I notice that you are on a 50 foot+ yacht with a lot of mass. Dosen't the modern hullshape, dual healm, and dual rudder configuration work less well in smaller yachts? For example, you can cross an ocean in a 35 feet full-keel yacht no problem, but would you do it in a 35 feet modern hull design? My point being that modern hull design to be ocean safe requires the mass of a 50+ feet yacht? Or am I missing the point?
In a world where companies are feared of litigation they cannot afford to sell knowingly inferior products so logic demands that the modern design has merit as backed by your statistics. It also seems to me that the owners of 50 year old boats need to justify their value when put against the faster and more spacious newer boat designs else they will lose their resale value…
Thomas, I applaud your courage in performing the genuine service to the sailing community by sharing your wealth of experience.
It would be great if you could review a number of options for single handed live aboard cruisers from modern designs from the major producers as well as perhaps aluminum designs like the Ovni?
Good job Thomas, we’re right behind you!! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻.
1:59 Sign me up for that awesome looking ride. Wow.
Thanks for the video Thomas
If you look at all the super yachts, Volvo Ocean yachts, etc all have this modern design. It's called evolution! would you rather a production car from the 90s or a production car from 2010s onwards. The difference is vast, engineering is now a science as is design and we benefit from it. There is a reason why so many company's are adopting theses designs. Great content Thomas.
Yeah but racing boats are not cruising boats. More speed doesn’t always mean more comfort.
Hi Thomas. This was an excellent post. You have my deepest respect!
Excellent well rounded expose ..Something my own experience ratifies thank you
Great video Thomas your mastery of the tech and technique is a pleasure to watch.
Thank you so much my friend 🙏🏻 your kind words and support are most appreciated.
All the best
Thank you for your honesty and experience. I love watching your videos as they are true sailing and technically interesting.
We have a saying in English, "empty vessels make the most noise". Vessel meaning "container", hit an empty saucepan with a spoon vs one full of soup. The channels you mention make a lot of noise and hence probably don’t contain much knowledge.
Always watch your videos and enjoy them. I have a simple question. When you refer to the wind speed you need, are you referring to apparent wind speed or true wind speed. Just curious! Thanks!
Hi, Thomas. A potential problem with aluminum is its metallurgical properties. Unlike, say, ferrous alloys or titanium, aluminum lacks what we engineers call an “endurance strength”. This makes it more susceptible to fatigue failure. Fatigue failure can be aggravated by surface defects, inadequate shaft diameter transition radius, corrosion pitting and galvanic corrosion. We frequently use titanium for seawater applications. This could be a more durable choice for the submerged wetted parts.
Thanks for this eye opening video, sharing your knowledge and your experience accumulated over 4 decades. clearly more viewers should subscribe to your channel. more videos like this is needed for the safety of the sailing community. I had a bolted keel on my sailboat and never had a problem but then it was not an old one. How many Hallberg Racy, Oyster or Swan have lost their keels!! Clearly you don't like B.S., you must have subscribed to your sailing compatriot channel ERIK AANDERAA.
haha. Like your sense of humor. In fact, two is always better than one. And the Camera panning to the sweet cake 😂 i'll have been thinking, and laughing for my self during the day.
Takk Thomas, for at du deler din reise og erfaringer. En fryd å følge deg. Gleder meg allerede til neste episode ✌🏻
Was going to watch this video, then the one from Chasing Latitudes, but I chose the other first. Thanks, for the insights.
not a sailor but a thinker who has been involved in so many things... having surfed many many years an seen the evolution of surfboards, ever considered 3 rudders, biggest in the middle and two smaller ones closer to the side.. as the do in surfboards.. before thruster there were twin fins (as in rudders) however they were too skittish in bigger waves so the thruster was designed and are now the most common setup. some are now even using four skegss for speed
very thorough with knowledgeable explanation…i have owned and refitted a
few old school , heavy displacement yachts for myself…i always felt more comfortable with skeg hung rudders and molded in hull keels…of course i sacrificed performance in light air, but thought i made it up in comfort and safety in heavy weather…I am not certain that all of my concerns about new hull designs could achieve the same level, but it certainly got my attention when hallberg rassey developed the new 40…
my question regarding wider beam carried aft involves heavy following seas…
i wondered how these boats would manage…i met a man who had just taken delivery of a new beneteau 42 and sailed it from ft lauderdale
to new orleans across the gulf of mexico…he told me
that he got into some relatively high following seas and fought the wheels the whole way…he said that the auto pilot couldn’t keep up so he had to hand steer…
any thoughts on this matter?
i sure like the performance of the newer, lighter yachts, with much more comfortable cockpits and cabins..
it would be nice to think i wouldn’t have to sacrifice anything in order to have more…
great video!…thanks brother!
Might try trailing 300 ft of 5\8 line. At least this worked well for me with 35ft boat and 200ft line trailing seas, Very difficult steering became very manageable.
very good suggestion , but i’m thinking more about how the wide beam carried aft yachts ( I.E. hallberg rassey ) do in these conditions as
they are , without a line to stabilize…thanks buddy…
Knowledge! Thank you for your time and effort!
Finally some voice of reason.
Fair winds!
Was brought her from @ChasingLatitudes channel. I appreciate a channel that is sailing based without drama injected into a plot. I am now a new subscriber and look forward to following your travels!
you da best Sir
You have definitely punctured some myths. Thanks a lot. Cheers.
Great video this time. I love how you hammer down those RUclipsrs sometimes when I’m watching it I’m like laughing and crying at the same time happy that you gave them your opinion which I totally agree with .. even though I have a single rudder😅😅😅😅😅😂😂😂😂