Tech Talk #6: Ball Selection
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Ball selection is where I think the vast majority of people have the most amount of problems. Quite frequently I'll hear people say this ball sucks, or that ball doesn't do what it's supposed to, only to find out that they're trying to get it to do something it wasn't intended to do, or that what they thought they needed wasn't in fact anywhere close to what they actually needed. Hopefully this video will explain a few things and help you understand how to go about selecting better balls for your game or a specific condition!
#techtalk #ballselection #heckinimportance
Luke you broke it down, it was plain and simple and very understandable. I appreciate that a whole lot. It gave me a very good understanding of RG and differential. Thank you very much sir.
I ran across your channel back in Feb just looking for Crux Prime vids. Bluntly, I was very much the ignorant bowler all my life not understanding hook vs backend thinking I only wanted hook monster solids and thinking pearls were just for dry / break down....and only throwing Storm because they smell better than lane oil and they look cool...all the while knowing I was missing a lot because I didn't take the time to really study the game (oil, lane surface, ball surface, etc.)
Since February, I have watched many of your reviews but your explanations in the Q and A's and this video (especially importance of coverstock compared to layout) showed me the importance of ball match ups and when I think back to balls I did and didn't like...now I actually understand why and what to jump on and what to avoid (pearls, I've never gotten along with pearls). I now have built a little arsenal of Spec and Hybrids based off my love for smooth and controllable arcs, versatility, and wet/dry blendings that gives me different shapes and avoiding over/under.
I became a manager at an alley last December (so now I take time to learn more not only for my own personal improvement, but also to help assist other bowlers) and although I still can't explain all the rg/differential numbers and science to it all ...the way you communicate and simplify things has helped me clear things up with our bowlers and give them advice and suggestions on what they need to look for within themselves and their game to talk to either our pro shop guy or whomever they go to so they in-turn can better help them find the right combos.
I'm sorry this was so long....but I just had to thank you and tell you to keep up the good work. I know I can't be the only one who not only appreciates your honesty and how you relay your message.....but also made me focus on and understand my game, what to look for that best suits my style, and why the scents aren't the only reason why Storm is the best company for me. Luckily our comfort zones and styles are fairly similar so therefore I have an idea that if it's something you like....I'm comfortable that it's something I should look at. Hell....one video of you mentioning why you like Turbo grips reminded me of a set I liked 14 years ago (Quad2 the bumps) and that I should try them again instead of our shop standard Vise....and now I will never go away from Turbo (Quad with mesh) again. I currently have the Crux Prime, All Road, HyRoad and now have a Physix on the way. Considering a ProMotion if I can get past the one solid color that reminds me of 1980s urethane. I'm still particular on visuals. 🤷♂️
LOL I totally identify . . and since you've seen my Q&As, you know I ramble myself . . it's all good! I'm glad I can help, that's what I'm here for. The rabbit hole is as deep as you want to follow it, and there's a lot of confusing stuff out there. Thanks and glad things are going well!
Nice video. I’m fortunate enough to have a pro shop guy that is great at layouts, and matching individuals to their equipment. While it’s important to understand the spec numbers in the catalog, it’s their job to properly lay it out. I don’t tell my mechanic how to fix my truck, and I don’t tell my pro shop guy how to drill equipment.
If you don’t have a good pro shop operator, FIND ONE.
I feel like this video was made just for me. Ty
Another great video!!! Just getting back into bowling and started replacing my old Brunswick Zones. I have always wanted to try Storm balls and brought an Intense fire which I have been using solely as I don't have any other balls other a white dot for spares. I have been looking at 2nd ball to buy and I am seriously considering getting the phaze 3. I also like the Roto Grip MVP Pearl as well. I have a pretty good pro shop owner from my perspective, i will have to check him.
Ah cool, yeah it's always best to get the opinion of someone who knows your game.
Bowlers tend to conceptualize RG as a measurement of how easily the ball will spin off of their hand.
ie: low RG balls are easier to spin than high RG balls, ala the ice skater analogy.
But in actuality, RG refers to the initial resistance of the PAP to migration around the low RG axis (the PIN, which is the top of the "ice skater's head"), which affects the characteristics of the track flare, which is friction, which tends to promote conversion to roll. Low RG balls tend to convert earlier than high RG balls, all else being equal. But it is entirely possible for a high diff/low RG ball to have a higher RG at the PAP than a low diff/high RG ball, if the balls are drilled differently.
ie: 2.53/.025 with 3.5" pin-PAP -vs- 2.50/.055 with 5.5" pin-PAP.
Byron Franek Yeah definitely, stuff like this just tends to fry people’s heads though, so was trying to keep it as basic as possible. Hard to make something simple and cover all the bases though . .
If this were entirely true, balls without a core would be rated at ridiculously high RGs, as they have little to no migration. Sounds like it's a term whose meaning may vary across manufacturers or even within a product line, just as the same shoe size may not fit from another brand.
@@coopergates9680 There aren't balls without cores unless they're plastic, when Storm/Roto says a ball has "no core," they mean it has no outer core, just weight block and cover, so this is 100% accurate. RG and diff numbers are absolutes, 100% physics and mathematics.
@@LukeRosdahl Hammer Razyr is a reactive 3-piece ball. Not very new, though.
@@LukeRosdahl I'm not saying they're not precise measurements of the properties of the ball, but not everyone necessarily represents the same quantity when they list it as RG. You described RG in the common light of moment of inertia (torque needed to spin it faster or slower), while the OP in this thread says RG has to do with the ball changing its own rotation with zero external torque applied.
Luke, what ball would you recommend to replace a Code Black? I got lucky and got one from a friend that had very low games, but my original Code Black is just wore out. I can use this ball on our typical house shot all 3 games by just moving my feet and target left as the night goes on. I'm not sure my rev rate but its somewhere between 350 and 400 and speed about 17 off my hand. Thanks, and I enjoy your videos. Keep up the great work!
Daniel Welsh Astro PhysiX is going to be the closest. Same cover, similar core numbers. Nothing else gets remotely close
@@LukeRosdahl Thank You!
I would disagree on one point, for Full Rollers, different layouts make a HUGE difference in ball reaction.
As an example: I got two Fever Pitches, on one I put the strong, high flaring Full Roller layout with pin 3 3/8" from center grip at 7:30 position and the other I put the low flare pin 1 1/4" past the PAP.
The 3 3/8" pin Fever was a total fail, zero flare or dynamics. It would not hook, it just rolled like a house ball. But the Fever with pin 1 1/4" past PAP was a monster. It gets length then rolls up very strong in the back and strikes with amazing power. It also gets flare, about 2" while the other Fever with the high flare layout, only got one single 1/2" stripe. So for some reason the core in the Fever would not work with traditional Full Roller layouts. Matching the core type to the layout is vital to get the benefit of the core, the wrong layout can kill the core, while the correct layout can optimize it. That's my personal experience.
Yeah definitely, full rollers are a way different story, you have to use full roller layouts so the ball doesn't flare over the finger holes. I should have added that in actually.
Great content! So I am looking into getting into leagues again with a typical house shot, and my ball is so old that I would need to plug the hole on it, which gives me a great excuse for a new ball. I am used to throwing a Brunswick Raging Red Fuze ( 2.559 RG, .55 Diff, drilled pin down) and stand at 25, eyes on 12. I am thinking that something like a Hyroad Pearl would be close to this. Any other suggestions that might fit this bill?
I don't know, I had 3 of those lol, really liked them. Big backend way back when but I'm not terribly sure what it would compare to now. Might actually be the new Spectre that just got announced yesterday, 2.54 .050, or maybe the Wolverine from 900 Global at 2.54 .053. Should have a Wolverine video up today or tomorrow, be a couple weeks on the Spectre but Storm's YT channel has a video up on it.
@@LukeRosdahl That Wolverine is looking like the play. It hurts me to throw a blue ball with wolverine on the side though when I went to Michigan State for school... oh well... maybe I'll put a green slug and grips in it. :D
Keep making videos like these please!
I plan on it!!! I have my first "Reaction Doctor" video coming in the next week or two. I posted in my community tab about a month ago asking which ball people had the toughest time getting along with, and I've tabulated the results and have the video written, I just have to film it now!
thank u
Hi luke, i followed ur suggestion to take pro motion, i like the shape but its too strong when the lane transition or breakdown. Do you have any recommendation on a step down ball? Current arsenal, promotion, timeless, fever pitch. 400rpm, 14 mph.
white shadowz Well that’s pretty normal, and that Timeless should be about perfect for a step down ball.
Get a mvp pearl
Hey Luke, I have a question. My current arsenal is Crux Prime, OG Dare Devil, and spare ball. I have a Hy Road Nano that I’ve been leaving at home. Is it worth bringing an extra bag for the Hy Road?
Stephen Banks It really depends on if you have the use for it, I don’t usually get much under an Idol Pearl, so if you’re just going to league and you haven’t needed it before, I wouldn’t worry about it. If you’re going to a tournament somewhere you don’t normally bowl though, I’d definitely take extra options just in case
Hey Luke, since you didn't go over it what number would be considered low or high on the RG and Diff? Like what are the ranges of them and what should I look for when looking at those numbers? Is there a middle ground number for each that I could use as a reference to know if it is higher or lower than that number it is going to be react differently? Thanks!
Low RG is around 2.51 and under, high RG 2.58 and above. Differential can vary a lot more. High diff generally means more aggressive track flare right off your hand, and more total hook.
Sorry I missed this, Cooper got it right though!
Hey Luke, I need a ball to help me with my THS. My house got a new oil machine and is using a newer oil and I am not matching up.
so far my best look is with a Hustle Ink at box finish. Trouble is, it is sometimes too jumpy and susceptible to over/under. Ink is drilled aggressively 4" x 25 degrees val angle.
Should I get another Ink and drill it tamer?
or should I get a different ball, perhaps a sanded Match Up Pearl? Hyroad X?
I have tried these balls and none of them worked well
GB3 Pearl
Phase II
Hectic - This ball didn't move enough to be effective
Intense
Deranged
Reign Supreme
The shot is 38 feet with 20ml of oil.
I am 300-350 rev rate.
Ball speed on the monitors is 16-ish. I have about 15-20 degrees of tilt.
Ooooo a hectic
The Balls you said aren't working so well all seem to be on the stronger end of things... The Hustle Ink is a great ball is super smooth. If it's being jumpy on you I imagine you have a fair amount of side angle on your throw in combination with your house shot being on the light side... I'm on a similar situation myself... The Ink is super smooth, thinking of what would be a little more calm on the back end I start to think Urethane and the Fever Pitch... While the Fever Pitch has not represented well on tour and sport shots, it does have a nice motion on a light house shot... But you've got to be THAT GUY that throws Urethane. I don't mind that personally... I've also heard good things about the Hustle HSB (hybrid Hustle)... Haven't thrown that one myself tho... But Could look into that and combo it with a longer PIN to PAP to give it a more smooth arcing motion... Some Food for thought. I like to check out the videos on them and understand my hand and lane conditions to make an educated guess on my ball selection
Jared Jackson - good insight. I do have a lot of axis tilt and rotation. I was also considering the Hustle HSB. Rumor has it that it is less jumpy off the dry. I probably don’t have enough revs to make a urethane ball hit well. A few guys in my league are succeeding with Hyroad X and IQTour solids. I don’t drill a lot anymore, so I need whatever ball I get to work properly
The Hyroad core in the X is going to be quite a bit stronger than your INK... If the Phase II was too much ball for your Hand on that lane condition, I think the Hyroad X will yield similar results... The IQ Tour Solid, by the specs would land close to the motion of the INK but a couple boards stronger because of the lower RG starting to roll a tad sooner... Also in retrospect... Roto's website shows the HSB being longer and more angular than the INK, so that might end actually giving you more over/under... I start to think, with the INK being such a good benchmark control ball for house shot, what if we just touch up the surface on it? If you're still at 1500 out of box finish. Maybe the solution is as simple as keeping the INK and taking the surface up to 4000 and reapply the polish... Then in doing some research, as the lanes transition out and away from the INK Solid, you could go to the Tropical Surge... The Tropical line isn't a glamorous, but they've always been major bang for the buck... The Surge is a 2.58 RG and 0.024 Diff with a Hybrid cover.. It could serve as a nice compliment to the INK rather than a replacement... You could do INK in game 1 & 2 and then drop down to the Surge for game 3 or when you start seeing over/under with the INK... I'm a big fan of the INK, it's hard to replace it as a benchmark ball on house shots... Maybe a good approach is to take it slow, try changing the surface on the INK and see how you feel about it because unfortunately, you don't get practice shots with new balls until after you've bought and drilled it... I've got an awfully expensive bookshelf at home with balls that just didn't work haha
Jared Jackson - I like your ideas. Probably best to work with my existing Ink surface and see if I can get anywhere with that. I have a spinner. So surface changes are easy for me. Like you mention, I’m not interested in adding a useless piece to my collection. I now only bowl in one house, so if it doesn’t work there I really have no use for it. Appreciate your input.
What ball do you recommend for when the lanes get torched? I’ve been looking into the hyroad pearl. (17-18 mph, 485-500 rev two hands) also what would be a good replacement for my halo? Don’t need the same shape, just need a big ball to take over since the halo was lack luster for me. Thank you for all the help
Hyroad Pearl is a pretty good option. PhysiX is actually a really good bigger ball, one of the best out there. You'll have to keep the surface on it, but that's what I'd do.
Luke Rosdahl I already have one so that may work out perfectly. Thanks for the reply
@@grantpickard7754 Oh ok, cool. It responds really good to surface adjustments, so just take it to 2000 and see what that looks like, I think you'll be surprised.
Luke as someone with a high rpm and ball speed that plays only in league atm what ball do you think would suit well for me? I'm right handed and I like to play up 5th arrow and get out to around 7 - 4 at the break point using a Zing or Crux prime but was wondering if there is something else I can try out?
5th arrow??? Why so deep?
@@LukeRosdahl When I tried playing more right I was noticing my ball would go too long and not have a chance to hook back so moving more deep with angle I had a cleaner look to the pocket
When should you replace a ball/What warrants a ball replacement?
When the ball gets lazy on the backend or soft at the pins. There's also a few things you can do like oil extractions and resurfacing to help it out, but at a certain point once it's been used so much, the performance just suffers. Kind of a personal thing too because sometimes when a ball "dies" it can get a lot better for some people. When you lose trust in a ball, or it just doesn't show up for you any more, probably best to move on.
So Luke I'm looking at getting a Halo Vision. Lately I've been having a lot of problems with my OG Idol not making it to the head pin with the amount of oil I'm running into. Would you say that's a good step up? Only other asym I had was the HyperCell Fused and loved it initially but found it wasn't a good match. Kind of worried I could be in the same boat with the vision.
lilnag89 The Halos like to go a little straighter off the end of the pattern, but the Vision is definitely a step up from the Idol. If you can’t get the Vision to hook, it’s either a crazy amount of oil you’re bowling on, or you’re just not doing something right, so at least you’d have a better idea what’s going on if nothing else. Vision is the strongest ball out there right now in my opinion
Hi Luke, I have a Phaze 2 and a Astrophysics, and I want something that I can play from the left part of the lane on the third game of league. I was thinking a Hyroad or an idol pearl. Any recommendations ?
Either one would be good, it just depends on how dry it actually gets. If it's just track burn forcing you left and you still get decent length, go Idol Pearl, if it just gets dry, I'd go Hyroad.
@@LukeRosdahl Or marvel pearl?
@@coopergates9680 Idol Pearl is basically a better Marvel Pearl, MP getting hard to find
@@LukeRosdahl You prefer idol pearl to no rules pearl?
One is sym and one is asym, hard to compare but I’d have to say yeah
My phaze II has a lot of games and isn’t reacting very much anymore. Should I get a new phaze II or a different ball?
Does your pro shop have a Detox or a way to extract oil from a ball? That'd be a good place to start, and probably a resurface would help as well, but the oil extraction is definitely the most important thing.
Hey Luke I’ve been told by my ProShop owner that people with lower revs and lower ball speed won’t get good reactions from asyms like the halo, is this true?
It depends on how low your speed is, asyms are built to help lower rev and/or higher speed bowlers, but even though you have low revs, which asyms would help with, if your speed is slow enough, that gives syms or weaker balls a chance to wind up and move.
@@LukeRosdahl I am a lefty. I throw at different house lanes in Calif and Las Vegas. I am the same way with about 12 speed and low revs. I have a bad pro shop, know nothing about left handed, and just I am throwing a Tropical Surge now. Would like the next step up, age 67, this would be my last ball probably. Like to throw around 2 - 3 arrows on left side. If I get to far left now I am in the gutter, so I need the more action. Any help on balls to look at for a lefty would be appreciated. Thanks
Ball selection??? I have 16 balls I’ll actually use.
Cant throw my hustle say on the badger...I want a refund
Exactly . . "that ball sucks"
"Two hander" and "crux prime won't hook" in the same sentence? lmao
Must have had fresh oil without carry down being cleaned up.
Lol nah it was probably hooking at their feet, moving so early they couldn't see it.
@@LukeRosdahl They were on double burn?
@@coopergates9680 No, it means with a two handed rev rate and that incredibly strong of a cover, it's going to just ignore the oil and dig in early, and 1000 grit is going to make it even earlier, so if you're not seeing hook down lane, it means it's hooking up front.
@@LukeRosdahl Was it at box before he took the 1K to it? He probably played too near the track or dry on a THS.