@@paulorocky the only way the rebels were going to work is if they were successful from the start and that isn't going to guarantee fans I remember when they had cipriani and no one knew who he was and iirc he was supposed to be a big name signing I guess on field failings didn't help them when it came to building a profile, the sport has never been mainstream in victoria and even at private schools; rugby has a low profile compared to Aussie rules and football
No offence, but this is pretty weak analysis and fairly typical of British/French Rugby Union people’s failure to understand Australia’s sports market. Through this entire video there was a fleeting reference to the NRL and no reference AT ALL to the AFL… a competition so entrenched in Victoria that it still has 9 teams there and whose fans initially pushed back at changing the name from “Victorian Rules Football” to “Australian Rules Football”. The NRL have rather miraculously made a great success of the Melbourne Storm, but this required a 20+ year commitment which has been methodical, consistent and frankly driven by an intense focus on success by their coach Craig Bellamy that is almost super human. The point is that the AFL is a chauvinistically Victorians sport and the consequence of this is that Victorians tend to be reflexively disdainful of any non-AFL football codes and so it takes the sort of approach the Storm had to carve out any sort of place for your game if you’re not an AFL club. The Rebels were never going to replicate that because: 1. Rugby Australia don’t do long term vision and investment - they do short term sugar hits and media campaigns built around poaching high profile players. 2. The club itself had too many owners and no coherent strategy or investors. 3. Super Rugby is not a competition that is capable of providing the Rebels with a pathway to success because it was always PayTV only and thus had limited access in the country and because it spent most of its history with a third of its games on in the middle of the night thanks to the competition’s wide geographical spread. 4. Rugby Union as a sport is increasingly officious and lacks the nimbleness of the AFL and NRL in responding to pain points of fans. For instance, whilst Rugby Union continues to feel like one long committee meeting between officials, the NRL and AFL have placed clear guardrails that limit the seeming arbitrary and constant interference from TMOs that rugby suffers from.
they need to review what happened to Western Force which was a far worse example of ARU mismanagement. Brought them in... then Rebels... then dumped the Force. Then a millionaire backs them and offers to back Aust Rugby, then suddenly Force are back in again sort of. Meanwhile NRL is now moving into Perth yet again. ARU has destroyed the work they did in Perth and Force no longer have any presence at all, whereas early on they had a good fan base that was growing and plenty of media coverage. NRL will become the dominant rugby code in Perth now, whereas 10 years ago that was no chance of happening with Rugby union being the more popular.
@@givesy123 Not every week, but they sell it out pretty regularly and have a fairly rusted on following. They average close to 20k per game and have sold it out 5 times this year. They’re also financially one of the most secure clubs in the competition - they’re incredibly well run across the board and the fact they’ve achieved that in a place as hostile to outsiders as Melbourne is remarkable. The Rebels were never going to replicate that with the incompetence that permeates all levels of Rugby in Australia. Heck, the Waratahs have all but collapsed in Sydney with the majority of their fans having converted to the Swans. TBH THAT is the real story here - an old and seemingly established and secure identity like the Tahs has all but receded into irrelevance because RA didn’t see that the Swans and AFL were slowly infiltrating their posh school nurseries. It used to be that if you wanted to go to the footy and be surrounded by a bunch of very WASPY private school alum in polo shirts, you went to the Tahs, but now all those people are at the Swans and the Tahs can’t sell out a game to save their lives.
@@givesy123 My view is that Storm should get 10-15k in Melbourne. I have no idea of their average crowd. Buyt if they crack 15k I reckon that would be very pleasing for them. Having said that, how many Sydney fans go down for away games. Perhaps the crowd sizes need to be 15-20k against Sydney teams.
Axing the Force over the Rebels in 2017 was so questionable there was a government inquiry. Rugby Australia have run the game into the ground the last 15-20 years.
I’ve lived in Melbourne my whole life which includes the entire lifespan of the Melbourne rebels. Didn’t see them talked about on the news or radio ONCE in that entire time. The fact is Melbourne literally couldn’t have cared less about having a super rugby team. The entire city and state of Victoria is AFL mad so that will always come first, and it took the Melbourne Storm 20 years to establish a solid NRL presence in the city and even then they hardly get a go on local news cycles and if you’re going off the pub test the Storm still wouldn’t get a mention. It’s a pretty tough market for a new winter franchise to break into.
Storm is getting more popular lately, I started watching in 2016 and back then you wouldn't really hear a peep unless the Grand Final was on. But now, I hear them mentioning the Storm a lot more often, especially if we got a good win. People talk about it more now too.
I was a rugby union player at the school level. Rugby union has been dying even in Australia due to the popularity of AFL, rugby league, and soccer. The best solution to address this in Melbourne is by promoting Rugby 7s and Touch Rugby at the local club and school levels, as people may be more inclined to play and enjoy these formats. Eventually, this could lead to increased support for 15-a-side rugby union and Rebels should be back in Melbourne as a result.
I don't know if Rugby Union would ever get a foothold in Melbourne again. It may, but I find it unlikely. NRL may eventually look to put a 2nd team in Melbourne and is slowly growing at grass roots level, AFL is already deeply rooted obviously, Soccer is taking over at grass roots level. I don't know if I can see any room for Union to grow, especially when there is such an elitist attitude surrounding it.
I'm from Melbourne No one knew who they were, no one knew their players and people in Melbourne are simply not interested, it was never popular at all and there is a lack of grassroot popularity in melbourne for the sport That is the elephant in the room right there
I’d disagree with one of your points here. Grassroots rugby is alive and well in Melbourne. You only have to look at a Wallabies 23 from a month or so ago… 3 Victorian born and raised players. I wouldn’t associate the failure of the rebels with the state of the local game. Go to a local club game and see for yourself.
There’s a lot of people of southern and Eastern European decent in Melbourne and they tend to prefer softer sports like soccer, badminton and horse riding etc
Good vid it deserves more views. I think the biggest issue is that league is the far more popular rugby code in Australia, but even then Rugby in Melbourne is held back by being the mecca of Australian Football. There was no room for two rugby teams in Melbourne and the more popular code won.
Idk I feel like the reason it’s called a franchise probably tells you a lot of what you need to know. When AFL and NRL have clubs. Grassroots rugby has clubs. A franchise feels lifeless. I live in Melbourne and tbh didn’t hear about the rebels until I started seeking them out.
completely true, league is already lacking in grassroots support in vic and it's even worse for union. the team were so desperate for numbers they were handing out free memberships to any kid that signed up and when no one signed up except the 15/16 kids that played in my year while everyone else played basketball, soccer or footy in the winter they were just handing them out to anyone that walked by during lunch in the school yard
@@eamonchanter6482 Yeah I heard about how bad it was, but it's like they were purposefully failing as a club, just like Rugby Australia seems to be purposefully failing. In contrast, look at League in Victoria now, it is steadily growing at a good pace, 10 players currently play in the Super league or NRL. Storm have a few of those. Not bad for AFL heartland.
Unreal video mate. Really unfortunate how this has happened here in Australia. I am a big advocate for ditching SR and moving to a domestic club competition, having franchises doesn't work. AFL, NRL have built their competitions up from clubs and brought that tribalism with them. I wish we went that route. Just have a look at all the club rugby finals from around the country the last month, the support and tribalism is still there in Rugby, just not in Super Rugby.
I'm from New Zealand, living in Melbourne. Honestly speaking, it has to start from the ground up. Melbourne Rebels were a decent side and the only team I was rooting for aside from NZ teams. There has to be more work done in the younger generation and grassroot level. It's easier said than done but if they want to benefit it would take a lot of sacrifice because of the popularity of AFL and NRL. It would have to take building an image where kids in Melbourne think that it would be cool and rewarding to play rugby. Kids are the future.
The Melbourne Storm have made a success of Melbourne in the NRL. The problem for the Rebels was that Super Rugby is just a terrible competition, with no FTA coverage and no real stability and rivalries worth anyone’s attention.
Rugby Australia had to have serious support and investment for the Rebels to survive in Melbourne. The advertisement was close to non existent. They couldn't break into the market in a significant way. Some of the positive early crowds could also partially be put down to the hype surrounding the (then) brand new, state of the art, Aami Park- which is a terrific stadium.
For me one issue is that, from what I understand, there is no real grass roots investment. In that work with public schools and have inter-school comp's. Also operate the sport l like what AFL do. In that with what I understand, each club regardless if it is the local town/suburban, or the main club in the main national series are member not for profit run clubs where the local fans by membership, and in doing so they are buying in to the club as a part owner with the understanding that they have the right in how the club is run by voting for the club bored. Also as part of that they understand that they wont see any financial return due to any money earn will be reinvested in to the club, and the lower state based leagues. Also structure everything, legally and taxation, in a way that that everything is a not for profit. Doing so would open up any and all sponsorship deals as a tax write off for any sponsors and broadcasting right holders on the grounds of helping out an organization that promote healthy living and social unity through sports. Also when making broadcasting deal's. Do so to maximize eyes on TV.
The elephant in the room. You didnt mention the Melbourne storm at the same period having so many superstars and playing an attractive brand of rugby (league). Melbourne is AFL territory but when you mention Rugby they usually think Melbourne storm. So it was an uphill battle from the start. However i believe they would have been successful if they persisited. Oh well ..we'll never know.
Shit management from the top. Everyone taking earnings and not caring about the growth because the big heads are all Sydney rugby heads. They never cared about Melbourne. Ridiculous for those coming up.
This is the kind of video rugby deserve! Great Video, great quality,, For the Au Rugby, they really struggling with basically everything, the lack of a interesting championship is killing the sport over there. Rugby needs to starts embracing domestic competitions worldwide, eliminating this multy nations champ.
@@rubenpacillo Poor management in both the clubs and the league itself. Poor advertisement, little to no grass roots investment, they have their matches on paid t.v. I mean It's a sport doomed to fail, it's almost as if they are trying to drive it into the ground on purpose. Meanwhile NRL and AFL are sitting back and going "Geez, we don't even have to do anything to take fans away from you, you're doing it to yourself."
rebel owners were greedy. they never used victorian grass root players and only bought players interstate to play for the rebels. while talented players were overlooked because they were from VIC so they were forced to play overseas in europe. Rugby Victoria is a stain in victorian sports. heavy favouritism on two clubs because they are the rebels feeder clubs. Harlequin and unicorns. poor refs, match fixing, forcing players to play for harlequin if they want to play for the rebels. SHAME on rugby vic anbd the rebels they deserved everything they got.
While it was a great video. I think you being a Britt don't really understand the impact AFL and NRL have on the sporting culture in AUS. Rebels were destined to fail if success never came quick, as they were located in the heart of AFL land. Even the NRL's most consistent top performing team hails from Melbourne but still can't compete with AFL in terms of numbers and popularity.
In Perth, Western Force was getting good publicity and support. No doubt all the South Africans and English. But ARU managed to mess that up. Now NRL are moving in. And the image of rugby union in Perth has plummeted and Force fans don't feel like their club gets any support and the code is dying in Perth.
I’m a rebels fan well was now the problem was that the club always thought buying big players was the way to go like buy 5 big players then not give a shit about the rest of the squad that’s really what went wrong
It never should have come into the competition. ARU brought it in after Western Force and then went onto to dump Western Force. There was a big South African Zimbabwean fan base in Perth. The ARU ended up bringing them back but the rugby scene is totally messed up in Perth now. To make it worse the Western Bears are about to start in NRL rugby league. I reckon they'll take over the rugby code battle pretty quickly.
I backed them from the start as I was sick of following the overhyped and underperforming Waratahs. Yet, the Rebels were horrid from the start! And even I wanted them cut over the Force. The Rebels were an embarrassment to rugby in general. And now they are cut, they have bolstered every other team.
Could it be argued that as Guardiola/Cruyff football is Barca Ball that the answers will come from La Masia as they understand the system more deeply and apply flair to it
Storm are the most successful nrl team excluding salary cap scandal and they still can’t sell out aami park or get the game on the main free to air channels apart from finals. Every code that isn’t afl struggles in Victoria. If storm had been the second Brisbane team and mimicked their success they would be the biggest club in the southern hemisphere
@@givesy123 Your facts are wrong. The Storm have sold AAMI park out 5 times this year and have averaged around 20k per match in 2024. What are you basing that on exactly? Brisbane is middle sized city - it’s no Sydney or Melbourne, and when the Storm were introduced the Broncos were incredibly successful, yet also only 9 years old. To introduce competition to them at that time when everything was working for them AND ignore a market as big as Melbourne would have made no sense.
Rugby league wasn’t actually _that_ big in NSW and QLD before the 1980s with saturation TV & media coverage, state of origin, and the money from this pokies in club rooms. Albeit it was the biggest football code and bigger than other sports like Aussie rules, Union and Soccer, but its following was not that big and not mainstream; most people thought it was a boofhead sport.
Sorry a city devoid of sporting success, the rise of Rugby League, you really don't understand the Australian sporting landscape where Rugby is at best a second tier sport nationwide. The Melbourne market is saturated with professional teams in various sports, dropping a Rugby franchise there was a disaster waiting to happen. The league side for example pretty much needs a hand out year in year out from the NRL, and that team had more support than the Rebels.
They were part of the demise of Australian Rugby. They never fell because they never rose in the first place. Ridiculous idea. Force were a mistake and Rebels compounded that.
Force was a good idea, but it was a long term thing. Give it 20 years to solidly establish itself. Rebels was pure idiocy while still waiting for the force to be established and with the force relying upon imports from Queensland. Now in 2024 would have been the time when rugby would be established in Perth with its own local player base & solid finances. And would be the time to look at then taking a punt on a Victorian franchise.
For a sport that is a "minor" sport in it's own heartlands (NSW & QLD), the idea that they could simply place teams in Vic and WA and they would be successful is silly. AFL rule in VIC, SA, WA, and Tassie (who cares about Tassie lol), however, the AFL are wasting millions and millions on Western Sydney. It will never take off there.
What a joke of a "piece" this. What "rise" did the rebels have? "the most promising rugby union teams..." WTF! They were always toss. And no one really ever game a sh1+ about them. This "article", if you can call it that, is written from a British mindspace clearly, where we think rugby union is at all relevant in Melbourne and Australia generally. Melbourne already has a "rugby" powerhouse in the Storm. British people need to stop their delusional thinking that Australia's main sport in rugby union, and realise AFL and NRL all that matter through winter.
I said it was stupid when it was launched back in 2009. Australian rugby was already overstretched with the western force. They should have waited until that was established and western Australia was producing its own local rugby talent & on solid financial footing, which would be about now in 2024, before looking at another Australian state expansion. Melbourne with its Aussie rules parochialism was always going to be a hard sell, look at how pathetic the storm league team’s local support base is after more than 25 years. Albeit rugby union is more appealing than league, but still; it was too fast and too soon
Except for the 2 Covid years (20 and 21) Storm's crowd numbers were around the 18k mark from 2016 until 2022, then in 2023 it was nearly 21k and then 22k this year. How can you call that pathetic compared to Rugby Union which gets much lower numbers? As for Membership numbers, Storm is 5th out of 17 teams.
@@SilentHotdog28 Because it’s a small stadium in a big city and almost no bonafide Victorians support them is how. Their fanbase is almost all league bogans from NSW and QLD, or Māoris, who moved to Melbourne. A fake team in the world’s fakest most no-integrity sport. And Union isn’t relevant to that fact, you bringing it up is insecure and defensive.
Imo if an Australian team had to get kicked out of the Super Rugby deserved to be the Rebels they’ve been uncompetitive for ages yes they made the finals but Rebels haven’t had a winning season in their history Brumbies & Reds had 1 this year our little brother from down South Waratahs had a winning year in 2022 Force 2014
9 AFL clubs, 1 absurdly successful NRL club, 3 A-League clubs, 2 NBL sides, 2 BBL sides - something was going to have to give.
@@paulorocky the only way the rebels were going to work is if they were successful from the start and that isn't going to guarantee fans
I remember when they had cipriani and no one knew who he was and iirc he was supposed to be a big name signing
I guess on field failings didn't help them when it came to building a profile, the sport has never been mainstream in victoria and even at private schools; rugby has a low profile compared to Aussie rules and football
they never should have. in the Perth market the western force had great potential and a growing fan base.
@@anthonypang7927 he was definitely a signing to try and get the UK fans interested. I mean it made me buy a jersey when I was a teenager 😂
@@struandickson9082 sounds about right 😂
People here don't even know who the wallabies players are let alone a star from overseas
I'm from Brisbane and no one knows the wallabies players here either mate@@anthonypang7927
No offence, but this is pretty weak analysis and fairly typical of British/French Rugby Union people’s failure to understand Australia’s sports market. Through this entire video there was a fleeting reference to the NRL and no reference AT ALL to the AFL… a competition so entrenched in Victoria that it still has 9 teams there and whose fans initially pushed back at changing the name from “Victorian Rules Football” to “Australian Rules Football”.
The NRL have rather miraculously made a great success of the Melbourne Storm, but this required a 20+ year commitment which has been methodical, consistent and frankly driven by an intense focus on success by their coach Craig Bellamy that is almost super human. The point is that the AFL is a chauvinistically Victorians sport and the consequence of this is that Victorians tend to be reflexively disdainful of any non-AFL football codes and so it takes the sort of approach the Storm had to carve out any sort of place for your game if you’re not an AFL club.
The Rebels were never going to replicate that because:
1. Rugby Australia don’t do long term vision and investment - they do short term sugar hits and media campaigns built around poaching high profile players.
2. The club itself had too many owners and no coherent strategy or investors.
3. Super Rugby is not a competition that is capable of providing the Rebels with a pathway to success because it was always PayTV only and thus had limited access in the country and because it spent most of its history with a third of its games on in the middle of the night thanks to the competition’s wide geographical spread.
4. Rugby Union as a sport is increasingly officious and lacks the nimbleness of the AFL and NRL in responding to pain points of fans. For instance, whilst Rugby Union continues to feel like one long committee meeting between officials, the NRL and AFL have placed clear guardrails that limit the seeming arbitrary and constant interference from TMOs that rugby suffers from.
they need to review what happened to Western Force which was a far worse example of ARU mismanagement. Brought them in... then Rebels... then dumped the Force. Then a millionaire backs them and offers to back Aust Rugby, then suddenly Force are back in again sort of. Meanwhile NRL is now moving into Perth yet again. ARU has destroyed the work they did in Perth and Force no longer have any presence at all, whereas early on they had a good fan base that was growing and plenty of media coverage. NRL will become the dominant rugby code in Perth now, whereas 10 years ago that was no chance of happening with Rugby union being the more popular.
Storm still can’t sell out aami park despite having the best team for 15 years
@@givesy123 Not every week, but they sell it out pretty regularly and have a fairly rusted on following. They average close to 20k per game and have sold it out 5 times this year. They’re also financially one of the most secure clubs in the competition - they’re incredibly well run across the board and the fact they’ve achieved that in a place as hostile to outsiders as Melbourne is remarkable. The Rebels were never going to replicate that with the incompetence that permeates all levels of Rugby in Australia. Heck, the Waratahs have all but collapsed in Sydney with the majority of their fans having converted to the Swans. TBH THAT is the real story here - an old and seemingly established and secure identity like the Tahs has all but receded into irrelevance because RA didn’t see that the Swans and AFL were slowly infiltrating their posh school nurseries. It used to be that if you wanted to go to the footy and be surrounded by a bunch of very WASPY private school alum in polo shirts, you went to the Tahs, but now all those people are at the Swans and the Tahs can’t sell out a game to save their lives.
@@givesy123 My view is that Storm should get 10-15k in Melbourne. I have no idea of their average crowd. Buyt if they crack 15k I reckon that would be very pleasing for them. Having said that, how many Sydney fans go down for away games. Perhaps the crowd sizes need to be 15-20k against Sydney teams.
@@BDub2024 they average 20k and have had 5 sell outs. They’re doing fine.
Axing the Force over the Rebels in 2017 was so questionable there was a government inquiry. Rugby Australia have run the game into the ground the last 15-20 years.
I’ve lived in Melbourne my whole life which includes the entire lifespan of the Melbourne rebels. Didn’t see them talked about on the news or radio ONCE in that entire time. The fact is Melbourne literally couldn’t have cared less about having a super rugby team. The entire city and state of Victoria is AFL mad so that will always come first, and it took the Melbourne Storm 20 years to establish a solid NRL presence in the city and even then they hardly get a go on local news cycles and if you’re going off the pub test the Storm still wouldn’t get a mention. It’s a pretty tough market for a new winter franchise to break into.
Storm is getting more popular lately, I started watching in 2016 and back then you wouldn't really hear a peep unless the Grand Final was on. But now, I hear them mentioning the Storm a lot more often, especially if we got a good win. People talk about it more now too.
I was a rugby union player at the school level. Rugby union has been dying even in Australia due to the popularity of AFL, rugby league, and soccer. The best solution to address this in Melbourne is by promoting Rugby 7s and Touch Rugby at the local club and school levels, as people may be more inclined to play and enjoy these formats. Eventually, this could lead to increased support for 15-a-side rugby union and Rebels should be back in Melbourne as a result.
I don't know if Rugby Union would ever get a foothold in Melbourne again. It may, but I find it unlikely.
NRL may eventually look to put a 2nd team in Melbourne and is slowly growing at grass roots level, AFL is already deeply rooted obviously, Soccer is taking over at grass roots level. I don't know if I can see any room for Union to grow, especially when there is such an elitist attitude surrounding it.
I'm from Melbourne
No one knew who they were, no one knew their players and people in Melbourne are simply not interested, it was never popular at all and there is a lack of grassroot popularity in melbourne for the sport
That is the elephant in the room right there
I’d disagree with one of your points here. Grassroots rugby is alive and well in Melbourne. You only have to look at a Wallabies 23 from a month or so ago… 3 Victorian born and raised players.
I wouldn’t associate the failure of the rebels with the state of the local game. Go to a local club game and see for yourself.
@@jameschand9490 compared to many other sports the presence is low
There’s a lot of people of southern and Eastern European decent in Melbourne and they tend to prefer softer sports like soccer, badminton and horse riding etc
@@vhgxxfghbgh5101If you think that Soccer is soft or that Eastern Europeans & southern Europeans are soft: You have no clue.
@@danieleyre8913 Yes, they are when compared to rugby popular nations like Fiji, New Zealand, Samoa, South Africa etc.
Good vid it deserves more views. I think the biggest issue is that league is the far more popular rugby code in Australia, but even then Rugby in Melbourne is held back by being the mecca of Australian Football. There was no room for two rugby teams in Melbourne and the more popular code won.
and a few soccer teams.
Maybe a bigger stadium and better name would have helped? How about Victoria thunder?
Idk I feel like the reason it’s called a franchise probably tells you a lot of what you need to know. When AFL and NRL have clubs. Grassroots rugby has clubs. A franchise feels lifeless.
I live in Melbourne and tbh didn’t hear about the rebels until I started seeking them out.
completely true, league is already lacking in grassroots support in vic and it's even worse for union. the team were so desperate for numbers they were handing out free memberships to any kid that signed up and when no one signed up except the 15/16 kids that played in my year while everyone else played basketball, soccer or footy in the winter they were just handing them out to anyone that walked by during lunch in the school yard
@@eamonchanter6482 Yeah I heard about how bad it was, but it's like they were purposefully failing as a club, just like Rugby Australia seems to be purposefully failing.
In contrast, look at League in Victoria now, it is steadily growing at a good pace, 10 players currently play in the Super league or NRL. Storm have a few of those. Not bad for AFL heartland.
Unreal video mate.
Really unfortunate how this has happened here in Australia.
I am a big advocate for ditching SR and moving to a domestic club competition, having franchises doesn't work. AFL, NRL have built their competitions up from clubs and brought that tribalism with them. I wish we went that route.
Just have a look at all the club rugby finals from around the country the last month, the support and tribalism is still there in Rugby, just not in Super Rugby.
They may as well try their luck having a national wide system of leagues and divisions based on promotion and relegation. It can't hurt.
It’s wasn’t one of Australia’s biggest, it was the smallest!
One of Australia's biggest Rugby Union teams 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
😂
I'm from New Zealand, living in Melbourne. Honestly speaking, it has to start from the ground up. Melbourne Rebels were a decent side and the only team I was rooting for aside from NZ teams. There has to be more work done in the younger generation and grassroot level. It's easier said than done but if they want to benefit it would take a lot of sacrifice because of the popularity of AFL and NRL. It would have to take building an image where kids in Melbourne think that it would be cool and rewarding to play rugby. Kids are the future.
Pretty simple: Rugby is a non issue is Melbourne. I was surprised they lasted as long as they did.
The Melbourne Storm have made a success of Melbourne in the NRL. The problem for the Rebels was that Super Rugby is just a terrible competition, with no FTA coverage and no real stability and rivalries worth anyone’s attention.
The treatment of Western Force in Perth is a far better story. Perfect example of mismanagement of Australian rugby.
Rugby Australia had to have serious support and investment for the Rebels to survive in Melbourne. The advertisement was close to non existent. They couldn't break into the market in a significant way. Some of the positive early crowds could also partially be put down to the hype surrounding the (then) brand new, state of the art, Aami Park- which is a terrific stadium.
For me one issue is that, from what I understand, there is no real grass roots investment. In that work with public schools and have inter-school comp's. Also operate the sport l like what AFL do. In that with what I understand, each club regardless if it is the local town/suburban, or the main club in the main national series are member not for profit run clubs where the local fans by membership, and in doing so they are buying in to the club as a part owner with the understanding that they have the right in how the club is run by voting for the club bored. Also as part of that they understand that they wont see any financial return due to any money earn will be reinvested in to the club, and the lower state based leagues. Also structure everything, legally and taxation, in a way that that everything is a not for profit. Doing so would open up any and all sponsorship deals as a tax write off for any sponsors and broadcasting right holders on the grounds of helping out an organization that promote healthy living and social unity through sports. Also when making broadcasting deal's. Do so to maximize eyes on TV.
If this was a soccer vid this'd defo get 100k views at least, you've done amazing work
Thanks, appreciate it!
@@JohnTalksRugby Sad that Rugby's not as well known as Soccer (especially where I live, it's only soccer or badminton here)
The elephant in the room. You didnt mention the Melbourne storm at the same period having so many superstars and playing an attractive brand of rugby (league). Melbourne is AFL territory but when you mention Rugby they usually think Melbourne storm. So it was an uphill battle from the start.
However i believe they would have been successful if they persisited. Oh well ..we'll never know.
Shit management from the top. Everyone taking earnings and not caring about the growth because the big heads are all Sydney rugby heads. They never cared about Melbourne. Ridiculous for those coming up.
This is the kind of video rugby deserve! Great Video, great quality,, For the Au Rugby, they really struggling with basically everything, the lack of a interesting championship is killing the sport over there. Rugby needs to starts embracing domestic competitions worldwide, eliminating this multy nations champ.
Thanks man, appreciate it!
We have one, it's called the NRL, that's where all of Australia's best Rugby talent plays. Rugby Union gets the leftovers
@titoelcomombiano yeah i guess, but i don't think that the decline of rugby au is thanks to League. Is just poor management of internal structures
@@rubenpacillo Poor management in both the clubs and the league itself. Poor advertisement, little to no grass roots investment, they have their matches on paid t.v. I mean It's a sport doomed to fail, it's almost as if they are trying to drive it into the ground on purpose. Meanwhile NRL and AFL are sitting back and going "Geez, we don't even have to do anything to take fans away from you, you're doing it to yourself."
rebel owners were greedy. they never used victorian grass root players and only bought players interstate to play for the rebels. while talented players were overlooked because they were from VIC so they were forced to play overseas in europe. Rugby Victoria is a stain in victorian sports. heavy favouritism on two clubs because they are the rebels feeder clubs. Harlequin and unicorns. poor refs, match fixing, forcing players to play for harlequin if they want to play for the rebels. SHAME on rugby vic anbd the rebels they deserved everything they got.
While it was a great video. I think you being a Britt don't really understand the impact AFL and NRL have on the sporting culture in AUS. Rebels were destined to fail if success never came quick, as they were located in the heart of AFL land. Even the NRL's most consistent top performing team hails from Melbourne but still can't compete with AFL in terms of numbers and popularity.
In Perth, Western Force was getting good publicity and support. No doubt all the South Africans and English. But ARU managed to mess that up. Now NRL are moving in. And the image of rugby union in Perth has plummeted and Force fans don't feel like their club gets any support and the code is dying in Perth.
@@BDub2024such a stupid idea from RA. I wish the best of luck to the Force but that decision has really hurt them
I’m a rebels fan well was now the problem was that the club always thought buying big players was the way to go like buy 5 big players then not give a shit about the rest of the squad that’s really what went wrong
It never should have come into the competition. ARU brought it in after Western Force and then went onto to dump Western Force. There was a big South African Zimbabwean fan base in Perth. The ARU ended up bringing them back but the rugby scene is totally messed up in Perth now. To make it worse the Western Bears are about to start in NRL rugby league. I reckon they'll take over the rugby code battle pretty quickly.
RA had pressure from NZR to dump a franchise. RA should've got the memo then that they need to create a pro league for Australia.
@@mikespearwood3914 stupid decision to drop the Force. It would have been the only place in Australia where Rugby union is the main rugby code.
Average attendance of 9,000? not even close
I backed them from the start as I was sick of following the overhyped and underperforming Waratahs. Yet, the Rebels were horrid from the start! And even I wanted them cut over the Force. The Rebels were an embarrassment to rugby in general. And now they are cut, they have bolstered every other team.
Could it be argued that as Guardiola/Cruyff football is Barca Ball that the answers will come from La Masia as they understand the system more deeply and apply flair to it
Storm are the most successful nrl team excluding salary cap scandal and they still can’t sell out aami park or get the game on the main free to air channels apart from finals. Every code that isn’t afl struggles in Victoria. If storm had been the second Brisbane team and mimicked their success they would be the biggest club in the southern hemisphere
@@givesy123 Your facts are wrong. The Storm have sold AAMI park out 5 times this year and have averaged around 20k per match in 2024. What are you basing that on exactly? Brisbane is middle sized city - it’s no Sydney or Melbourne, and when the Storm were introduced the Broncos were incredibly successful, yet also only 9 years old. To introduce competition to them at that time when everything was working for them AND ignore a market as big as Melbourne would have made no sense.
@@DeftPol they’re barely breaking even
I was just grateful Melbourne had a team in the comp… #homeboy
The rise of Rugby League? Rugby League has been by far the biggest sport in half of Australia for 100 years now. The other half is AFL
Rugby league wasn’t actually _that_ big in NSW and QLD before the 1980s with saturation TV & media coverage, state of origin, and the money from this pokies in club rooms. Albeit it was the biggest football code and bigger than other sports like Aussie rules, Union and Soccer, but its following was not that big and not mainstream; most people thought it was a boofhead sport.
Sorry a city devoid of sporting success, the rise of Rugby League, you really don't understand the Australian sporting landscape where Rugby is at best a second tier sport nationwide. The Melbourne market is saturated with professional teams in various sports, dropping a Rugby franchise there was a disaster waiting to happen. The league side for example pretty much needs a hand out year in year out from the NRL, and that team had more support than the Rebels.
They were part of the demise of Australian Rugby. They never fell because they never rose in the first place. Ridiculous idea. Force were a mistake and Rebels compounded that.
Force was a good idea, but it was a long term thing. Give it 20 years to solidly establish itself.
Rebels was pure idiocy while still waiting for the force to be established and with the force relying upon imports from Queensland.
Now in 2024 would have been the time when rugby would be established in Perth with its own local player base & solid finances. And would be the time to look at then taking a punt on a Victorian franchise.
For a sport that is a "minor" sport in it's own heartlands (NSW & QLD), the idea that they could simply place teams in Vic and WA and they would be successful is silly. AFL rule in VIC, SA, WA, and Tassie (who cares about Tassie lol), however, the AFL are wasting millions and millions on Western Sydney. It will never take off there.
What a joke of a "piece" this. What "rise" did the rebels have? "the most promising rugby union teams..." WTF! They were always toss. And no one really ever game a sh1+ about them. This "article", if you can call it that, is written from a British mindspace clearly, where we think rugby union is at all relevant in Melbourne and Australia generally. Melbourne already has a "rugby" powerhouse in the Storm. British people need to stop their delusional thinking that Australia's main sport in rugby union, and realise AFL and NRL all that matter through winter.
I said it was stupid when it was launched back in 2009.
Australian rugby was already overstretched with the western force. They should have waited until that was established and western Australia was producing its own local rugby talent & on solid financial footing, which would be about now in 2024, before looking at another Australian state expansion. Melbourne with its Aussie rules parochialism was always going to be a hard sell, look at how pathetic the storm league team’s local support base is after more than 25 years. Albeit rugby union is more appealing than league, but still; it was too fast and too soon
Except for the 2 Covid years (20 and 21) Storm's crowd numbers were around the 18k mark from 2016 until 2022, then in 2023 it was nearly 21k and then 22k this year. How can you call that pathetic compared to Rugby Union which gets much lower numbers? As for Membership numbers, Storm is 5th out of 17 teams.
@@SilentHotdog28 Because it’s a small stadium in a big city and almost no bonafide Victorians support them is how.
Their fanbase is almost all league bogans from NSW and QLD, or Māoris, who moved to Melbourne. A fake team in the world’s fakest most no-integrity sport.
And Union isn’t relevant to that fact, you bringing it up is insecure and defensive.
Imo if an Australian team had to get kicked out of the Super Rugby deserved to be the Rebels they’ve been uncompetitive for ages yes they made the finals but Rebels haven’t had a winning season in their history Brumbies & Reds had 1 this year our little brother from down South Waratahs had a winning year in 2022 Force 2014
wait lets not forget.. that they not the only franchise to fail in super rugby its soooo bad.. moana don't even have a home stadium lol
That music is terrible