*“I think recreating a system without recognizing how it came to be helps support false equivalencies and a lack of understanding”* Sheeeesh! So well said. I think as an aspiring writer I want to learn more about our current system and structure before I openly critique them. Among many other things mentioned in this video.
The menu left me feeling more angry than anything because of the exploited kitchen staff. I mean, it felt good watching all the rich jerks get what they had coming, and it was funny in a lot of places. But, a guy literally kills himself because of his employer. The rest of the workers are just brainwashed into going along with it, instead of having autonomy. The movie didn't say anything. Ironically, it felt like a pretentious project that was ultimately empty and without saying anything.
Yes, like a cult leaders turning his followers towards terrorism with no plan to make anyone's life better, just to feed the ego of the moderately powerful white guy who's mad at the even more powerful white guys for failing to recognize what his work entails. Like, you're halfway there bud. Don't stop at "let's just blow it all up" what are you doing
19:39 omg thank you!!!! The way the staff is portrayed left a bad taste in my mouth. They feel like emotionless robots with no motivations aside from fulfilling the chef’s dreams and that honestly says a lot about the people behind this film
I had so much disbelief on this too. Like why would the staff also want to die with their chef? And in fact one of the staff actually came up with the plan??? But then there's a reddit thread where a couple of people working in the restaurant industry said that was actually realistic. Basically, staff in restaurants with really prominent chefs are crazy.
Def appreciate you detailing the difference between how we make take a film’s messaging vs how it’s constructed. It’s easy (online) to taut we are immune to messaging and take what we like from our media piece meal. There’s even historical precedent for this in queer film studies. BUT we shouldn’t discount intended messaging as something only fools absorb uncritically.
Also interesting to me that so many of these “eat the rich” movies/shows are still very centred on the POVs and stories of these rich people. We don’t get a story of lower class people in their own stories affected by the class dynamic, we’re still fascinated by and invested in stories of those at the top. Edit: should have waited. I see this was well addressed in the vid, and far better!
Both on him and on Janelle Monáe for me but same. And it's a shame bec. the messaging was more cut and dry in the 1st movie: it clearly showed how liberals will ally themselves to bigots, when they feel personally threatened.
What a banger. This video is great, I have nothing to add. I didn't look at the media critically when I consumed it, but in retrospect, just being asked to think critically, I was coming up with similar conclusions right along with you. I don't know if that was luck where I saw your content at the right time in my own progression, or skill on your part, but it feels pretty good to be right there on a journey with another person. So thanks.
The proclivity to look for dunks against conservatives. I was listening to JohntheDuncan and he brings up that the roots of rationality as a concept exist within a framework of domination. Debate streamers are an example of this rationality as domination mentality. If dunks are an extension of this behavior, that implies dunking is a reification of colonial modes of being? We become the powerful, not subvert them. We merely place ourselves at the apex of the unjust hierarchy under a different set of justification? Everyone is liberal is what I'm saying.
So glad I'm not the only one who felt this way about The Menu. I was so confused on why picking the old couple (who would benefit more from therapy) and the assistant were chosen as part of the menu. I was wondering if the assistant chosen because she's taking part in the affair, but that wouldn't make sense since she was intent on leaving. And she didn’t seem snobbish at all that would constitute her as the "proper" guest picked out. I was hoping to see more about the chefs because I've seen what a toxic work culture where you must always be working affected one of my friends who was a culinary chef. She ended up getting burnt out.
This was so so good! Loved your insight! Since TOS's director is apparently a socialist, I was a bit annoyed at the very half-assed inclusion of race and the capitalist realist ending, but enjoyed it a lot. Glass Onion I enjoyed a lot too but yeah the reforming of the liberals without interrogating THEIR complicity was very frustrating. You absolutely nailed it.
did not know that about TOS’s director! i remember someone discussing the idea that the film’s debut at festivals might’ve fueled the direction it went in (ie. to spend more time poking at the wealthy portions of the audience who would see the film first) which is A Choice but particularly interesting to have that kind of ending from someone identifying as a socialist.
Great video, I really like your readings on these. Like a lot of people, the way the staff was handled in the Menu still bugs me and keeps that film from being as great as it could’ve been. I do like how Parasite contrasts these examples by firmly situating the audience with the perspective of the overlooked classes (that flood sequence is a perfect example). Makes the class critique more coherent I think
Excellent video :) I still enjoyed Glass Oignon, but couldn't care much for the menu and even less for the "boat" one, so much so that I can't remember the name of it even right after watching your vid, and except for the fact it made me discover the music it uses at the end.
i was in the camp of "it's a fun movie with a decent message, it doesn't really have to be more than that" , but you beautifully addressed why it's worth thinking deeper about what these movies really convey (and i've subscribed!)
Glad I made it to this video. I liked the video a lot. I think it’s something I might share it when I’m trying to explain that capitalism uses advocate language and washes it for corporate greed. Also happy pride!!!!
Excellent points! I’ve only seen Knives Out 2. Helen is my favorite character. White Lotus just shows class/white 20:52 privilege as is. It doesn’t say anything profound. That’s why I don’t understand all the awards and nominations the show receives.
WELCOME BACK! I dont care much for eat the rich media (outside of straightforward exceptions like Parasite and Knives Out) and i'm tired of seeing leftists/progressives portrayed as villains.
I think the only thing I really disagree with is your reading of Triangle. I loved the final act, and I think it's what makes Triangle the only one of the 4 mentioned that does a good job of any sort of class analysis or systemic critique. I didn't read it as saying that people are inherently thirsty for power or whatever but that the social relations we've learned from our current society and the ways of thinking that are inherent to hierarchical social relationships naturally reproduce these behaviors the film is critiquing, even if you leveled the existing systems. It's a fundamentally anarchist critique: if your organization of society does not prefigure the values you hope to produce, it will instead produce the values latent in your organization. In the beginning, it seems justified to allow the only one with survival skills to dictate to others (anarchists are not opposed to expertise), but that dictatorship is without limit, and so the organization of society they have constructed follows to its natural conclusion: those with unwarranted power over the lives of others exploiting those others. It doesn't need to be a commentary on who she is as a person specifically (we know less about her than most of the others); it's a commentary on the inevitability of the social order they (as a group) have allowed to be created. Edit: Re:The closing bit: A lot of what you're talking about with the co-opting and aestheticizing of radical politics is dancing around Debord's concept of recuperation and the spectacle. Don't know whether or not you're familiar with it, but I figured I'd mention it for others since you didn't name-drop it.
Interesting interpretation (sincerely). _Triangle_ felt less hollow to me than the rest of this batch, and has stuck with me more strongly, but I haven't really been able to articulate why
@@nailati It certainly seems the most sincere (reflected by a lot of explicit quotes and name-drops) and comprehensive to me (reflected by its runtime and structure). I watched The Menu and then Triangle the very next day. The Menu left a bad taste in my mouth (turning the working class analogue into a death cult unconcerned with catching the innocent in the crossfire), but I was really happy with Triangle for the most part.
Pleeeeaaaaase cover bodiesx3. There were aspects of it I found interesting but over all it felt to me like a misogynist millennial take on gen z. Kept alluding to murky aspects of characters and then doing mostly nothing with it.
I am so excited for your second part as this first part has really covered so succinctly many simmering thoughts consuming many Euro-US medias as of late! 🤍🤍 Good luck in academes my good sis
*“I think recreating a system without recognizing how it came to be helps support false equivalencies and a lack of understanding”*
Sheeeesh! So well said. I think as an aspiring writer I want to learn more about our current system and structure before I openly critique them. Among many other things mentioned in this video.
The menu left me feeling more angry than anything because of the exploited kitchen staff. I mean, it felt good watching all the rich jerks get what they had coming, and it was funny in a lot of places. But, a guy literally kills himself because of his employer. The rest of the workers are just brainwashed into going along with it, instead of having autonomy. The movie didn't say anything. Ironically, it felt like a pretentious project that was ultimately empty and without saying anything.
Yes, like a cult leaders turning his followers towards terrorism with no plan to make anyone's life better, just to feed the ego of the moderately powerful white guy who's mad at the even more powerful white guys for failing to recognize what his work entails.
Like, you're halfway there bud. Don't stop at "let's just blow it all up" what are you doing
I felt the same way after watching it
19:39 omg thank you!!!! The way the staff is portrayed left a bad taste in my mouth. They feel like emotionless robots with no motivations aside from fulfilling the chef’s dreams and that honestly says a lot about the people behind this film
I had so much disbelief on this too. Like why would the staff also want to die with their chef? And in fact one of the staff actually came up with the plan??? But then there's a reddit thread where a couple of people working in the restaurant industry said that was actually realistic. Basically, staff in restaurants with really prominent chefs are crazy.
Def appreciate you detailing the difference between how we make take a film’s messaging vs how it’s constructed. It’s easy (online) to taut we are immune to messaging and take what we like from our media piece meal. There’s even historical precedent for this in queer film studies. BUT we shouldn’t discount intended messaging as something only fools absorb uncritically.
Also interesting to me that so many of these “eat the rich” movies/shows are still very centred on the POVs and stories of these rich people. We don’t get a story of lower class people in their own stories affected by the class dynamic, we’re still fascinated by and invested in stories of those at the top.
Edit: should have waited. I see this was well addressed in the vid, and far better!
Thanks for giving me vocabulary to describe why glass onion fell flat for me. The vast number of cute outfits on Daniel Craig barely made up for it 🤔
Both on him and on Janelle Monáe for me but same. And it's a shame bec. the messaging was more cut and dry in the 1st movie: it clearly showed how liberals will ally themselves to bigots, when they feel personally threatened.
@@moustik31It's all about survival.
@@toomuchinformation Well, it shouldnt be. People should be consistent with the values, they profess to believe in.
@@moustik31 But it IS. You can continue in the land of "should be" though.
@@toomuchinformation Ma'am please.
🙄
What a banger. This video is great, I have nothing to add. I didn't look at the media critically when I consumed it, but in retrospect, just being asked to think critically, I was coming up with similar conclusions right along with you.
I don't know if that was luck where I saw your content at the right time in my own progression, or skill on your part, but it feels pretty good to be right there on a journey with another person.
So thanks.
"the system we exist within corrupts our way of understanding humanity and each other because of an emphasis on value"
beautifully put
Falcon and Winter Soldier really does become less rewatchable everytime i see something more about how its story was handled
It's actually gotten better for me. The more you hang around revolutionaries the more Carley as a character makes sense.
The proclivity to look for dunks against conservatives. I was listening to JohntheDuncan and he brings up that the roots of rationality as a concept exist within a framework of domination.
Debate streamers are an example of this rationality as domination mentality.
If dunks are an extension of this behavior, that implies dunking is a reification of colonial modes of being? We become the powerful, not subvert them. We merely place ourselves at the apex of the unjust hierarchy under a different set of justification?
Everyone is liberal is what I'm saying.
You deserve way more subs, excellent analysis that more people need to consider for these films and series that tackle class consciousness
So glad I'm not the only one who felt this way about The Menu. I was so confused on why picking the old couple (who would benefit more from therapy) and the assistant were chosen as part of the menu. I was wondering if the assistant chosen because she's taking part in the affair, but that wouldn't make sense since she was intent on leaving. And she didn’t seem snobbish at all that would constitute her as the "proper" guest picked out.
I was hoping to see more about the chefs because I've seen what a toxic work culture where you must always be working affected one of my friends who was a culinary chef. She ended up getting burnt out.
This was so so good! Loved your insight!
Since TOS's director is apparently a socialist, I was a bit annoyed at the very half-assed inclusion of race and the capitalist realist ending, but enjoyed it a lot. Glass Onion I enjoyed a lot too but yeah the reforming of the liberals without interrogating THEIR complicity was very frustrating. You absolutely nailed it.
did not know that about TOS’s director! i remember someone discussing the idea that the film’s debut at festivals might’ve fueled the direction it went in (ie. to spend more time poking at the wealthy portions of the audience who would see the film first) which is A Choice but particularly interesting to have that kind of ending from someone identifying as a socialist.
Great video, I really like your readings on these. Like a lot of people, the way the staff was handled in the Menu still bugs me and keeps that film from being as great as it could’ve been. I do like how Parasite contrasts these examples by firmly situating the audience with the perspective of the overlooked classes (that flood sequence is a perfect example). Makes the class critique more coherent I think
Excellent video :) I still enjoyed Glass Oignon, but couldn't care much for the menu and even less for the "boat" one, so much so that I can't remember the name of it even right after watching your vid, and except for the fact it made me discover the music it uses at the end.
i was in the camp of "it's a fun movie with a decent message, it doesn't really have to be more than that" , but you beautifully addressed why it's worth thinking deeper about what these movies really convey (and i've subscribed!)
Glad I made it to this video. I liked the video a lot. I think it’s something I might share it when I’m trying to explain that capitalism uses advocate language and washes it for corporate greed. Also happy pride!!!!
Excellent points! I’ve only seen Knives Out 2. Helen is my favorite character. White Lotus just shows class/white 20:52 privilege as is. It doesn’t say anything profound. That’s why I don’t understand all the awards and nominations the show receives.
“The aesthetics of political thought” Now that’s a banger of a line. Subbing after watching and a recommendation from fd signifier.
SHES BACK !!!!!!!
Excellent video
I love this video, thank you so much for putting into words the reasons that these movies fall so flat at times!
Clicked on this so fast omg
Love your work. keep it up!
WELCOME BACK!
I dont care much for eat the rich media (outside of straightforward exceptions like Parasite and Knives Out) and i'm tired of seeing leftists/progressives portrayed as villains.
Woah, what an analysis!!!
I think the only thing I really disagree with is your reading of Triangle. I loved the final act, and I think it's what makes Triangle the only one of the 4 mentioned that does a good job of any sort of class analysis or systemic critique. I didn't read it as saying that people are inherently thirsty for power or whatever but that the social relations we've learned from our current society and the ways of thinking that are inherent to hierarchical social relationships naturally reproduce these behaviors the film is critiquing, even if you leveled the existing systems.
It's a fundamentally anarchist critique: if your organization of society does not prefigure the values you hope to produce, it will instead produce the values latent in your organization. In the beginning, it seems justified to allow the only one with survival skills to dictate to others (anarchists are not opposed to expertise), but that dictatorship is without limit, and so the organization of society they have constructed follows to its natural conclusion: those with unwarranted power over the lives of others exploiting those others. It doesn't need to be a commentary on who she is as a person specifically (we know less about her than most of the others); it's a commentary on the inevitability of the social order they (as a group) have allowed to be created.
Edit: Re:The closing bit: A lot of what you're talking about with the co-opting and aestheticizing of radical politics is dancing around Debord's concept of recuperation and the spectacle. Don't know whether or not you're familiar with it, but I figured I'd mention it for others since you didn't name-drop it.
i did not know about Debord's concept but i will check that out!
Interesting interpretation (sincerely). _Triangle_ felt less hollow to me than the rest of this batch, and has stuck with me more strongly, but I haven't really been able to articulate why
@@nailati It certainly seems the most sincere (reflected by a lot of explicit quotes and name-drops) and comprehensive to me (reflected by its runtime and structure). I watched The Menu and then Triangle the very next day. The Menu left a bad taste in my mouth (turning the working class analogue into a death cult unconcerned with catching the innocent in the crossfire), but I was really happy with Triangle for the most part.
Haven’t watched it but I’ll try taking both ideas presented into account if I do
The Recommending Ones & Zeros apologizes for the devastating and overwhelming distress that must have happened while waiting on our blessing.
I love the character of Kreia.
Awesome video but whenever you did the voice echo effect it made what you were saying incomprehensible
I honestly havent ever been interested in parodies of rich white people so I've never seen an eat the rich media
Thank you so much for making this amazing video! A topic that needs to be covered as some leftist love these movies
Love your videos...really hard to hear what your saying when you use that hallway voice.
comment! awesome video :)
heyyy !
Pleeeeaaaaase cover bodiesx3. There were aspects of it I found interesting but over all it felt to me like a misogynist millennial take on gen z. Kept alluding to murky aspects of characters and then doing mostly nothing with it.
I am so excited for your second part as this first part has really covered so succinctly many simmering thoughts consuming many Euro-US medias as of late! 🤍🤍 Good luck in academes my good sis