Let's Talk About The Poppy War...
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- Опубликовано: 3 сен 2020
- I gotta be honest. I do my best here to provide why I don't think this one clicked w/ me.
My friend Kayla's posi Poppy War review:
• The Poppy War | Spoile...
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100% agreed. Especially Rin's complete personality change mid-way through.
Finally someone who does not praise that book to the heavens 🙏 I don't understand that hype at all! I liked the first part with the school setting, I just love school settings 😁 but I had huge problems with the logic in this book. I mean all the higher ranked soldiers studied strategy for two years, or more I don't remember, but all they can think of is throwing some logs on the enemy? It's supposed to be historical accurate but this just bothers me. And then these torture porn chapters 🤨 I finished it but I don't think I'll be reading the next books
Like no shade to the people who loved it, but yeah it just didn't' click right to me.
As a half chinese living in a third world asian country, I know why it's hyped. Many people won't admit it of course. It's a dark YA novel that is easy to understand by an Asian-American female author. People, especially Americans, want to appear supportive and progressive.
I forced my way through the Poppy War earlier this year. I enjoyed the first half of the book, but it didn't click with me once the war started. I tried the 2nd book and got over halfway though before I DNF'd. Life is too short to read things you aren't enjoying, even if they are widely praised.
True that.
Finally a review I agree with!!!!!!! Dude I LITERALLY don’t understand why this book is so praised.
Some people definitely vibe w/ it hard and that's cool, but personally it just didn't click that way at any point.
I love your input on this book! I have never heard a negative thing said about this book and I love to see the contrast!
Well thank you!
Thanks for this review. You clarified and articulated many of the feelings I had about this book (and the series). I decided to pick this up after seeing all the crazy positive reviews for this series. And I am currently trying to slog through the third book. I really don't know why I didn't DNF during the second book, but I kept thinking it has to get amazing, since most people say it is (and now that I'm more than halfway through the third I feel like I should just finish).
After finishing the first book I maybe wasn't as negative as you were here... But only because I thought the sequels would raise my opinion of it. BUT... They didn't. The sequels double down on most of the negative aspects you mention about the second part of this story (the non-YA section).
Your point about it feeling very juvenile was spot on. It feels like your spending time with some edgy middle schoolers who recently discovered the f-word.
Thank you very much! Comments like these help me feel a little bit less crazy haha. I totally agree with your last paragraph for sure
Just read this for the first time and I think you NAILED every bit of this review!! Put so many things into words that I was thinking about while reading. While the setting was fresh and it's interesting to see real-world history reflected, it's just not very well written or emotionally deep.
This is the kind of thing that came along at the right cultural moment, but it won't have the kind of staying power in the genre as the genuine greats. It feels like a college student wrote it, and no doubt I think Kuang has amazing potential that I hope will come to the fore with her new Oxford novel since epic fantasy doesn't seem like it plays to her strengths.
That is definitely a great point. I would strongly doubt that this trilogy will be something that is lauded 10 years down the road.
What your review proves to me is that reading a book is a whole !of different from hearing a book. After multiple tries at getting into audio books and feeling they just weren't for me, this was finally the one where I felt it worked. I binged 19 hours of audio in 3 days, losing sleep in the process. Actually hearing Rin made a difference. She connected with me the same way Walter White did. I felt profoundly sad when the story ended.
That's super awesome that it worked for you! Some books definitely work better on audiobook!
PRETTY PLEASE NEVER STOP MAKING VIDEOS!
Haha, thank yoU!
Wins martial arts tournament after being kicked out? Sounds legit. Never seen Avatar? Duuuude.
never seen avatar?! *okay back to running away from potential spoilers since I need to read this stll*
Wait Una, YOUVE seen Avatar?
You hit a lot of good points and I think a lot of your criticisms for the book were spot on. It is flawed, no question. That being said...
I still loved that book to pieces! That book got me out of a terrible reading slump. To me, the book was so enthralling and compulsively readable that I didn't see the flaws at all the first time around. And the sequel does a lot better with many of these issues, so my judgment has been colored greatly by the fact that I am a severe fan of this series. Again, what you said is right, especially about the way the writing tells pretty much everything. For any other book, I'd cared a lot. But for this one... I loved it so much that I don't care at all 💀 I hope you read the second one!
That is awesome! I'm glad others like yourself are able to love this one. I didn't hate it so I *am* still curious about the sequel as I've heard it is a lot better so we'll see. Super glad that this one got you out of a reading slump tho. Gotta love a book that can do that!
Wholeheartedly agree with your review. Just finished the book today and feel exactly like you do. Thank you for the video!
Thank you for watching! And I'm always glad when I hear people felt the same way! Sometimes with a book like this where there is a lot of positive hype I feel like I'm alone and crazy or read the wrong book or something lol
At last there's a review that expresses all the issues I found jarring while reading this book. I had been so close to DNF it but powered through it all because I needed to know how it's going to end.
I have no desire to pick up the next book.
I'm glad I'm not alone. Many of my friends who read this one really enjoyed it so I just sort of felt like I might be crazy? lol
that intro had me nervooooous XD "don't cut your hand, don't cut your - WHEW! That was close!" lol
KC I'm clearly a professional.
you're correct that not going in with expectations made the book experience so much better. I do see where you are coming from. The second book's tone is more like that 1 chapter, fyi
Interesting. I am curious about that one and I do own it so I hope to get to it someday.
Someone really pretentious told me to read the Poppy War a few years ago and I felt hesitant to read it ever since.... Haha. It's interesting to hear your thoughts on it because I've only heard high praise of it!
A lot of people *do* really like it so this isn't to discredit that, but yeah...
Great review!
The YA-part was the best part of the book. Rin is so bland. She has no personality and I still don't know how she got into military school. She never asks questions, she does not rethink her actions...she just acts like an angry child, like Altan 2.0. The pacing was all over the place. The whole school part was so fast and when we get to the battlefield it's over in two-sentence or so. Why write about the military when skipping the battles? Oh, I forgot, because Rin kills masses of ppl with a wink of the Phoenix. Does she get traumatized by it? No! Somehow I must have missed the part where she got brainwashed to be a military puppet...
Lol... yeah pretty much to all of this. Honestly I'm curious what the central conflict will be in book 2 because of how final that nuke was
Oh thank you for that review! I've finished the book yesterday and I thoughts i got a different copy from everyone 😂 I thoughts I was the only one seeing the issue with Rin's character and the drastic change of tone 😂 I'm glad I'm not alone!!
Yessss! I'm so glad you agree :D I felt very much the same way!
You came highly recommended by Ms. Brooks. Your channel looks great. I'll be paying close attention.
She is so awesome
Hey Michael that is one of my favourites so far and I would love to share comments and ideas with you here after…big thumbs up btw
Sure thing! Feel free to express what you liked about it! I have a lot of friends who liked it quite a bit :D
1. Me after The Poppy War: Not bad. Lots of hype though, so must get better.
2. Me after The Dragon Republic: Well, that got slower. And darker.
3. Me after The Burning God: That last 100 pages was the longest 100 pages of my life. Thank God it’s done.
Hmmmmmm... that doesn't sound encouraging
I really didn't feel any connection to the characters while reading this book. I can see why people like it, but it didn't do it for me. Also, I kinda felt like most side characters are just there to get Rin to advance in the story, but aren't... filled with life.
Definitely
Omggg!!!! That opening!!! 😂😂😂❤
Literally same reaction
I've done that before but it normally doesn't' take me that long.... lol
I really thought you were going to stab yourself in the face for a moment there LOL
I love this book, but I totally understand why you feel the way you did. I do like the 2nd one better, the pacing gets better,,, the pacing of the first one threw me for a bit.
The dark part is really confined to like 2 chapters... I think more people don't talk about that part, it is dark in 2 chapters like hard to read gross but it isn't spread out in the whole book I think.
The part one does feel YA and straight forward, I actually didn't prefer the school setting part... I prefer the 2nd half of the book where it gets darker and then the 2nd book really improves upon that. The drugs are more explored in the 2nd one too I think...
It was a 4 star for me, but I am rereading it now so I am curious to see if I feel the same way upon re-read... but the 2nd was a 5-star book for me so that makes me more excited for the 3rd.
I actually watched an interview with Kuang where she admits that her writing in the 1st wasn't what she would do now and it is cool to see it improve in her writing now.
I also found it interesting when Kuang said THOSE chapters were not her imagination and lifted right from history in the massacre of Nanjing.
I will be curious to see what you think if you read the 2nd book.
Also, Kitay is the best character in all of the books... I need him to be my best friend.
Kayla's video is great as well! I love that you shared a positive review too. I mean, there's some really popular booktube books that I don't like too, we all like different things :)
Oh surely you can tell from the video that I am a trained hatchet specialist... right? lol
I do agree about Kitay. He's a total bro.
Yeah I am curious to get to The Dragon Republic at some point because I've heard a lot of things improve so we'll see what happens when I get to it.
@@QuestLegacy kitay is the best part of the series and he only gets better!
And yes it is clear you are a hatchet expert and I shall never question your experiese in the hatchet world 🤣
Yes! This one is my fave of 2020 so far!
Are you looking forward to book3?
Michael Knipp yes! I’d do anything to get an ARC 🤣
Congrats on monetization!!!! That's so exciting. I watched all the ads. I definitely see all the issues you brought up. I completely understand why people don't like this book. And thank you for the shout out. I'll be curious if you do end up picking up Dragon Republic what you think of it. Kuang was 19 when she wrote this and took some writing classes before taking on Dragon Republic and I do think it shows. But there's still some of the issues this book had as well. Also, one counter I do have is that Rin does train before the marshal arts tournament with Master Jiang. It is sped up like the studying though.
Thank you
This is so interesting because I completely based my opinion of "I don't enjoy grimdark" on this book and GOT. I wonder if I should give the genre another shot? Bc if this isn't actually grimdark...maybe I haven't really experienced the genre. Great review, Michael! Very informative. Thank you!!
I would say that one chapter definitely qualifies as grimdark. And from what I know about ASOIAF that is *for sure* grimdark so I'd say that is more representative of what the genre is. (And its success will likely steer books toward it for some time as it already has)
Thank you!
@@QuestLegacy okay. That makes sense. Ty. I wish the grimdark trend would endddd
Brando, early Tamora Pierce, Megan Whalen Turner, and Diana Wynne Jones are my fantasy idols.
I only read the first half and when the tone shifted I put it down. I plan to pick it back up eventually.
Curious to hear your thoughts when you do!
I feel very much the same as you. The weird thing about this book is that the blue print already existed. "enders game". Young child goes to military academy, is bullied and isolated by staff and pupils, culminating in *spoiler* genocide *end spoiler* .
I loved the world building and want to see more of this world but the tone is all over the place and rin is a somewhat annoying (see: unjustly insubordinate) character
Those are some good comparisons. But yeah, the reader tends to actually like Ender. Rin is kind of a psychopath by the end
This was really interesting! I feel like the majority of people I follow have really enjoyed it, but it's nice to hear your opinions of it. I definitely liked it, but I am wondering if maybe I liked it more because it wasn't as grimdark as I thought it would be? I don't tend to do very well with grimdark, so I think I maybe had lower expectations going into it. I also love a good school setting, so that helped me enjoy it more. I do think that the second one is better than the first, but it's a been a bit since I've read The Poppy War.
As I get more time away from it I'm getting more curious again about book 2... I've heard it is a lot better..
@@QuestLegacy It is! I feel like it's more mature I guess?
I kept reading and hearing reviews of the book saying it was grim dark. I'm 41 and have been reading fantasy books since I was 12. I'm starting to think it might be a generational thing that what I consider dark and what 20-30 year olds think of as dark is vastly different. Those two chapters with the destroyed city were brutal yes, but the rest of it felt pretty light all things considered.
I haven't read this book, but it was on the top 10 on my TBR. Now it just got pushed way back :)
Well you're welcome maybe? lol There's sooo many awesome sounding books out there!
Even though you didn't enjoy it as much as I did, at least you gave it a chance. One comparison I will disagree with is the connection with Avatar the Last air bender. The only thing that connects the two is the eastern setting. Other than that the series feels original to me. Maybe I just need to read more.
Great review! It sounds like this is not a book I would enjoy so I will move on. It's funny you mentioned A:TLA. I just watched that for the first time in May when it came out on Netflix and I have to say that this is the only thing I love as much as the Stormlight Archive, which has been with me since 2013. I am not a big fan of grimdark, and I'm not a fan of anything TRYING to be grimdark and missing the mark. Also, nothing wrong with YA books but I don't want to read them right now either. A:TLA, while aimed at kids, touches the hearts of people of all ages while trying to promote a message of peace. The writing is genius, the story is heavily character driven which I love. I definitely recommend you watching it (and then review it here on youtube!)
Okay, now I'm really going to start my Stormlight Archive reread before Rhythm of War.
So I've never seen A:TLA but I've heard sooooo many good things. I'm always afraid of starting it tho because I feel like its so overhyped it would be unfair for me to start it with such crazy expectations but it is so constantly being hyped that I don't know what to do about it lol
@@QuestLegacy I totally get it. I know everyone was bugging Daniel Greene about it and then he finally hunkered down and watched it. He has a good review of it up, but if you decide to watch it it does have major spoilers on Zuko.
I have friends and a brother who watched it long before me and said it was "good" but nothing special. My friend's husband thought it was boring from the get go but for some reason finished the whole series! And then I also have a friend whose wife shaved her head to be like Aang. I won't shave my head, but it's literally my favorite TV series ever. It's like...kind of a mixture of Miyazaki and Star Wars..lol. It has a similar spirit to the original Star Wars. The first season is kind of slow but a necessary foundation. And then you get to Book 2 and it's totally solid like The Empire Strikes Back and you really get why everyone loves it and won't shut up about it. It accomplished so many things the GoT series tried but could not, including an epic and unforgettable series finale.
I think this would be a great fantasy series for you to review on your channel!
That opening lmaoooo
Honestly Daniel needs to clap back if he wants to prove he's the better fantasy weapons specialist now.
@@QuestLegacy LMAOOO YES
1. I wanna see you yeet that ax at a tree, or a can of Axe. For the people.
2. Didn't realize Poppy War was supposed to be grimdark, and after Best Served Cold that entire subgenre has had a bitter taste for me.
Lol. I axe throwing at cans of axe does sound like it'd be a fun and pungent time
Yeah... I've heard that it is, but honestly I'd say that literally only that one chapter really qualifies as grimdark. I've only heard positive things about Best Served Cold up to this point. What was your experience?
Abercrombie decides that one of his characters reaction to getting screwed over felt like a character betrayal to me. Looking back at it, there is a non-zero chance I identified with the character and I didn't think I'd react that way. Still don't to be completely honest but I've yet to experience it so can't say for sure.
I totally agree with what you said. Do you plan to read the second book? I don't know if I will
I do own it, so I would like to at some point, but its definitely pretty far down my tbr
Phew! Look at your channel grow ! I appreciate your in-depth comb through The Poppy War. I enjoyed book one... book two I dnfed. It was just not there for me.
Yeah... I plan to get to book 2 at some point, but not in a huge hurry.
@@QuestLegacy Yeah I wouldn't be... lol
I see where you are coming from, I liked it well enough but was never blown away or super connected. I find that most grim dark doesn’t feel that way to me but this one less so because of the distance you mentioned. I felt the character development was much better in the sequel though! I think my brain put it in a similar adult book frame as Red Rising which has YA bones but adult content? And from that perspective I had a good time
I think I will get to The Dragon Republic at some point and I am curious about what I'll think of that one.
I appreciate your thoughts. I haven’t had any desire to read The Poppy War because everyone says it is so violent.
It definitely has violence as a main theme, and is fairly graphic when describing the violence it has. Most of the violence is told rather then described, but that one specific chapter is EXTREMELY graphic.
Michael Knipp yeah, I probably will never read it. It doesn’t sound like my style of fantasy.
Have you read Bloodsong, by Anthony Ryan?
Would love to read your review of that book.
Cheers mate!
I have not read it, but I do have friends that have praised it highly! I added it to my TBR!
I’ve only read the first one, but it’s pretty overrated imo. Not bad at all though
I always read positive and negative reviews if I'm on the fence about a book. I appreciate your opinion about this one, I am definitely on the fence about The Poppy War, seems a little too good to be true that noone has a different opinion
Well thank you 🙏
Spoiler alert: he's not Seth Rogan. He foreshadowed this by holding a beverage instead of a joint.
Never ever take a shot at the great Daniel Greene
Hatchet v dagger. Who will wiN?
haven't read it yet, so running away, but im here to say... creme soda > roobeer!!!
Its definitely good, but its soooo sweet! I have a hard time drinking too much of it... Maybe that's a good thing?
I had to read the book and come back to this 😂... YESSSS To being told and not shown! I found it really hard to feel for these characters. Personally enjoyed part 1 and then part 2 really lost me...The pacing was off, the development of relationships in this book make no sense, especially this infatuation of Altan. Anyway, ultimately didn't click with it 😭 and I wish I had. Agreed, liked the concept, but not the execution.
I'm glad I'm not the only one! I have many friends who love the book and that is awesome, but it really was disappointing for me personally.
Well damn. I thought I loved the book. Now idk. I don’t know if I’ve ever been swayed by a review more.
But then again, I went into it with everyone making Harry Potter comparisons.
If you loved it I definitely don't mean to take away from that! Enjoy what you enjoy! I just really struggled with aspects of this one.
This book lost me at the "Nanjing Massacre" part. It's over the top for no real reason. Pages long description of sexual violence is not something I ever want to read. It's meant to justify the ending of the book, but it's so unnecessary. I don't think this book is grimdark, there aren't that many morally grey characters, decisions or events. It's just that last choice that makes it seem that way.
Yeah I think what Kuang wanted to do with that chapter just flopped completely for me based on its completely jarring placement in a book otherwise somewhat light? Like I feel if we were supposed to recognize that this historical event was so atrocious, we should have spent more time actually seeing the atrocity for more than 1 chapter.
@@QuestLegacy or spend more time on the repercussions of it? Maybe it's in the next book (that I'm not going to read)? It goes pretty quick from that event to her going to the absolute most extreme answer.
Yeah, you're not conflicted Michael. You didn't really like it :)
I mean I didn't *hate* it either... I still have some interest in the other book... I still read it super fast!
It's considered grimdark because of the graphic rape. I totally get that that's not upsetting for men to read about, but for a female reader, it's extremely grimdark. In addition, the protagonist never does even the tiniest nice thing for anyone in the entire story, and then kills millions and millions of people, so the "grimdark" label is applied by people not so say this is mature, but to say "careful, this is a villain's backstory".
I want to make sure that I say that the graphic rape chapter was extremely disturbing it was full stop one of the grossest and most disgusting things I have ever read. I think if we isolate that chapter out of the story, we are seeing a character who isn’t “good” but I didn’t get a full oppressive no hope feeling from the rest of the story and actually was sort of taken out of how much silly humor was in a story that was attempting to be so dark.
The ending which you also reference definitely cements the character as being the same as her enemy in a lot of ways, but the tone and feel were just all over the place to me
@@QuestLegacy Yes, I agree with you! Just wanted to clarify why many people used the grimdark label: a) some very disturbing stuff, and b) protag commits genocide. But I very much agree that the tone, theme and relationship dynamics was often very juvenile and didn't match. The author does have potential, though: if she can write this stuff at age 22, she could be truly amazing at age 35.
I was reading the amazon preview and the instant I saw “asshole” and “shithole”, I lost all interest.
I'm late to the party, but, yes, horrible, horrible book. The praise for this book feels like gaslighting, to be honest. Even the one, truly dark scene you mention was, per the author's own note at the end of the book, lifted entirely from a famous historical account, down to the descriptions. So, the one genuinely emotional moment in the book is not even original. As I've said on other vids, the book reads like exactly what it is: the debut novel of a very young first-time author (Kuang hadn't had so much as a short story published before TPW) who spent three months (her words) writing it.
Dang, I hadn't heard the 3 months factoid.... yeah I tend to agree with your analysis.
what i find infuriating is that no one seems to notice or care about how badly de war and battles are written. I've only made it to the first battle but ... NOTHING is described. Its a stupid hollywoold brawl with no strategy or formation. I dont even know what equipement and weapons they use !!!
they spend the first half of the book training with staf and hand to hand combat. so i thought it was an atiquity setting. But then i read about a ceasefire and about an island being bombed and about men being rounded up and shot. WTF is going on ?? Am I the only one notincing how fin inconsistent the setting is ?? every one criticises the character and storytelling but... the basic setting was so bad I coudn't even get into any of it
I mean you’re not wrong, BUT I LOVED THIS BOOK 🤣 omg I love Rin 😭 it’s fine, you didn’t just break my heart or anything lol I’M FINE
WE can still be friends! I'm just not friends w/ Rin... wait... you aren't friends w/ Rin either? She's a lil unstable...
Michael Knipp LOL nooo definitely wouldn’t want to be friends with her IRL, sorry Rin 🙈 I just love rooting for a good ol’ messed up antihero 🤣
You have spoken everything completely accurate. I cannot get this book. None of it makes sense to me at all. AT ALL! Honestly, didn’t get it. It’s a copy of the name of the wind and the beginning, then it’s random with completely variable power structures, and then they hit you with one dark horrific bit that doesn’t fit with its tone. Honestly it just doesn’t make sense to me.
Also, Grimdark is a very specific thing, with specific tone, characters and everything else. This is not grimdark in any way. Violence, horror and gore do not, a grimdark novel make. Grimdark is not this.
As for the writing: generic, uninspired, NOT grim dark. The book is so light and unimportant. And after what Kuan did to GRRM at the last Hugo awards (implying strongly he was a racist), I just can't say anything good about her. *vomit*
I can't speak to the Hugo issue, but I do agree about the writing itself.
I mean…I love GOT but let’s be honest man, the Dothraki were written to be nothing but a caricature of brown people. I don’t think the accusation is completely unjustified
That book sounds awful.
I wouldn't say *awful* just kinda meh.
Wow ..no respect for authority. Sounds familiar. 🙄 This definitely isn't the book/series for me. I don't like ya fantasy or adult that reads like YA.
I'll stick with Jade City.
I've heard so many awesome things about Jade City. I want to read that one soooon!