I'm late to the party, but still wanted to leave a thanks for the very well put together videos. It shows you're a teacher, clean presentation, staying on topic, easy to follow, etc. Very efficient :)
I really appreciate that you do these things clearly and systematically, leaving one in no doubt how things work. Also handy that you give a summary and advice. I follow your logic and will be doing much the same with my ship designs in future. As an aside, because I am a pedant, I get a tick whenever you say solar system....star system, planetary system or just system would be better.
I do recommend bringing a combat ship with Long Range Sensor in a fleet as soon as the hull with 120 size sensor slot is available(which varied by race), it's capability for early warning and pursuit is unparalleled.
Thanks for the video and not only giving your opinions but demonstrating visually how all this worked. I had been hesitant using trace scanners because of the zero range thing... But I'm going to plop them into all of my ships now except for escort ships that I attach a couple onto each fleet. They can keep the short range scanners.
Thanks for the informative videos on DW2, I appreciate that you take the time to look into different areas in-depth with examples (so I don't have to). In regards to Stealth tech, I agree that it's not worth the size hit to put stealth on a ship meant for combat. However, there are cases where I will use stealth, which are: 1) I will put stealth tech on any ships I build as Long Range Scanner ships (basically spy ships). Then I can park the LRS ship near enemy systems with less chance of it being seen and chased away or destroyed. 2) The other place I'll use stealth is on valuable lone bases such as research bases and sometimes resort bases. This just makes it harder for the enemy to spot and target those vulnerable bases.
So glad you like them, thanks for the kind words. Yes - those are 2 good examples where it might make sense! Thanks for sharing with everyone! And I will take a look at them again if the Devs end up buffing stealth. Finally - I HAVE been able to (once) go right up to a pirate base with a high stealth ship and not get attacked (even though devs said that shouldn't happen). But I can't reproduce with other race spaceports. Strange. That would add value but it rarely seems to work.
The jump tracking percentage might be confusing, but from my observation and deduction it's the ability to track warp bubble & jump trace, the percentage is essentially a power scaling value. Which affects how far the jumping target has its empire and role as well as trace scan related stats is revealed.
Yes - I demo this (during long range scan) I just don't go into the math of it. If my ship was closer to the Pirate Frigate - we would have seen where it was going and been able to give chase too.
Yo, your videos are awesome. Great work!! Wish I had this kind of info for every niche/turbonerd game I play, LOL. Looking forward to your future videos!
THanks so much for the ivdeo these are really helpful! Wish the game had more tooltips and explaiend wha tit means with the dotted circles and such when you select a ship with all different colours.
Nice, was looking forward to this. Just started watching. One thing you might want to do for the next video is up the in game graphic setting (forget the name). It will smooth out the overlays so they aren't banded. It was put in to prevent crashes but if you don't suffer from those, it would look better to turn them on.
Thanks for your content, It is very appreciated and helpful. Do you has plans to release a video explaining ship/fleet tactics? About how the tactics overridden each others and how to set up the tacticts when you have diferent roles integrated in the same fleet. That will be great. Thankns again
It's on the list (each video takes 20+ hours prep) and I hope to get to it soon. My guide does explain this a bit if you haven't see it yet (link in the description in the other videos)
Also like you said while stealth is weaker on large ships that extra bit of countermeasures is an amazing factor but hard to pin down on real vale due to rng.
One point, the countermeasures get increasingly more powerful if you stack everything that adds to it. Iirc you can get a base 40%, a little from thrusters, and subtract any enemy targeting. But once you have a high %, each additional % is worth a lot. Reducing hit chance from 70 to 65 is trivial, but 35 to 30 is really nice. How high can you get it? A simple solution to trace and short range scanner advantage is to mix. I'd like the bonus on my damage ships, but you can mix in a few weaker ships with short range scanners. Frigates or maybe even escorts, with cautious behaviour and just some support fire (long range missiles, ion weapons or some point defense). Would a long range scanner be something you could add to a fuel tanker design? In addition to normal fuel tankers you add to each fleet, these would work as flying monitor bases you could park anywhere. Alternatively a slow ship without fuel, just collectors, that could just sit anywhere. is that possible? I think very tailored fleets might give an edge and be convenient to instantly know which number means what. Like each odd fleet a defense fleet, and half the even fleets (2, 6, 10, ...) standard attack fleets. Fleets 4, 8, 12, etc can then be specialised attack fleets. One main fleet, an invasion fleet and several support fleets. You could have designs fit to roles within each of these fleets. You could take this further and make half fleets, each working in pairs. With 1 a defense fleet, 3 could be a support fleet, the pirate hunting part of the fleet usually set to defend but easily selectable. 2 and 4 will then be parts of an attack fleet designed to work together and with different settings. This might also help with refueling, retrofitting or repairing fleets in two steps so you're not too vulnerable.
So all good ideas you mention! It is important to organize the names of your fleets as yo mention. The only thing is that the fuel tankers sometimes leave the system in search of fuel and then come back. But it might work most of the time. I was thinking of doing a short on trying to make a tank ship - and testing it. It's on my list. So at that time I think I'll be able to answer you. They do stack though just to confirm (thought there is always a minimum TO HIT change of 1/12). - I didn't say this in the vid but I often make a command cruiser with Long Range and then just don't build too many of them. Maybe 3 to a fleet. I put mostly defense and PD on it to keep it alive. I also put Fleet Tracking and Fleet Countermeasures (when I get to that tier). Then I have mostly fast destroyers and eventually light carriers. So I still recommend having one ship with Long Range Sensors as soon as it's viable (for chasing fleets, jump tracking) - but most of my ships doing the work are using trace scanners - and early game I use them exclusively.
@@scottsspace5562 How expensive is the upkeep if fuel tankers, too much for redundancy? If you have two they can swap places. Or have one tied to the closest space port of fuel mining station and see what it does on auto (it could ferry fuel to fuel tankers or to nearest fleets?). I googled bases and found a reddit on defense, monitor and unspecified stations but it was for DWU. A mentioned downside of have full space stations on every colony is that it spreads your resources, annoying when building huge fleets in one place mostly. The solution would be to have lesser stations everywhere. Or maybe you can set all resources to keep nothing in stock except fuel? Having monitor stations with long range scanners all over seems awesome and defense/fuel stations on all weak colonies that you don't want a spaceport on. Is that possible? What can you build on places that are not (yet) colonies? If you can't build custom stations where you want, can you have a alternative design mining station for shitty resources/asteroids just to give you visibility and maybe a refueling point? Or is that simply too expensive?
@@teambellavsteamalice by the time I get them, the game is more or less over (I'm dominating) so it's not so exciting. I use slow research so it takes longer to get there.
Trace scan is the additional ability to determine other ship's cargo, onboard troops, characters and component status, but with much shorter range, and countered by trace jammer(when lower than jamming power). One can think it as FCR (high resolution/penetrating) instead of ELINT sensor/EW radar(long range but low resolution) that normal scan represent. Trace scanner is more useful on combat ships and as counter to trace jammer(when higher than jamming power). In actual senario, normal sensor is good enough to collect all the info from unknown entities til they start to equip trace jammers/stealths. By which the trace scanner is needed to collect those info from the unknown entities, but with a much shorter distance than before(trace scanner has high power but low range).
That is the official line. But the Short Range sensors (with no trace scanner) also shows ship's cargo, troops, and component status (as you can see in vid).
@@scottsspace5562 Yes, as short range sensor does have trace scan attribute then it possess the ability to reveal details as well, though in relatively short distance(due to low power and range) and prone to jamming. And that's why I only recommend to put trace scanner on combat ships and when enemy start to equip jammers.
@@renyaoqin I know that - it’s on my chart in the video. I think you missed my point. If you watched my video, the short range and long range sensors can see troops, components, etc all the way across the system. That’s FARTHER than the trace scanners. So there is no proof that even if the AI used jammers (I’ve never seen them use them) it would be able to reduce the range of similar tier sensors scanner ability significantly enough to make trace scanners required to supplement the sensors- remember the sensors get more powerful faster as you go up in tiers than the jammers.
@@scottsspace5562 I agree and I'm not intend to start an arguement, as I commenting above: "In actual senario, normal sensor is good enough to collect all the info from unknown entities til they start to equip trace jammers/stealths" Erik does talk about stealth mechanics in the matrix forum, which I can deduct the formula out of the value he provides like the one you showed in the video. I would assume trace scan calculations follow the same formula which means the first tier jammer could cancel out any short/long range trace scanning capabilities (with the exception of Ultra long range v3 as your chart shows). And if AI doesn't have any jamming or stealth components that means their effective jamming capabilities is zero, by which short range and long range sensor can reveal AI ship's cargo when they entering the sensor's maximum trace scanning range. But if AI does have jammers on their ship, I don't think player would be able to tell any trace related info from afar. Even with a same tier trace scanner it would have very limited range due to power/range scaling. Again I think this could be a very interest warfare type to experience and play with(from both side), if future update can tailoring it well.
My apologies - I read your post too fast. I see now where you said short and long see across the system. I thought you hadn’t realized that. So yes - I see your point. It is possible the jammer could cancel enough scanner power - but I don’t think practically it would happen in game (I’ve never seen it). And it wouldn’t stop me from seeing the ship itself to target. By that time I would have trace scanners (multi version) on all my ships and long range sensors on my command cruisers in every fleet. But again, good discussion! Something to watch for in game or if they ever buff the AI!
Funfact: The unit for Jumpdrives and Scanners are AU 3.000.000 M = 47,5 Ly And we dot not placed in an acutal Galaxy, its more of a Starcluster Like M13 or other Messier-Objects.
Thanks for this! I've been wondering if stealth was worthwhile and it seems so far it isn't. Hopefully they'll find a way to make it more interesting and useful.
@@scottsspace5562 what do u think about making it so even if in the same system it could mask the ships to look like pirate ships? when I looked at this I was hoping to be able to bombard or raid with a small fleet without gaining negative rep. not being able to do this on bigger ships due to penalty is fine but with frig/des/troop ships it would be nice to build a strike team that masked itself as a pirate faction to raid and kill civ ships to cripple a faction economy without being caught provided they don't have stronger tech.
Great points - not sure if it works that way. I think once you start bombarding - it will reveal you and cancel all stealth. But it would be cool if it did work that way.
@@scottsspace5562 no i agree that it doesn't work that way, otherwise u would not get negative rep for it. but I think it would make stealth more useful for waring nations.
The instant loss of definition makes me wonder if the scan power was being treated as combined. Does the Trace scanner targeting stack with the targeting scanner? BTW, the default Resort Bases include Long Range Scanners, cheaper and easier to spread than Monitor stations
This topic is certainly not crystal clear - although the stealth calculations are accurate for example. I do not think any new info is going to change my recommendation - I've been playing with these recommendations for many games and I've run into zero issues at war.
@@scottsspace5562 The only time I dabbled with stealth so far in DW2 was to park a specialty ship in an enemy system just to sit and watch. Too much of a pain to repeat in later games, lol In a system so the collectors could power everything but not at a location where it could be stumbled upon.
I am 99% sure the trace scanner stacks with a short range scanner, but within a single component - I don't think so. But let me know if you find out differently.
@@scottsspace5562 Okay ran a few sample combinations, Fleet Destroyer, New hull, so no other systems. Trace Scanner + Short Range = Stacks fully Trace Scanner + Long Range = Long Range overwrites the Trace Scanner. An odd bug Scan Range displayed is that of the last system added. Trace Scanner + Trace Jammer = Stack fully Trace Jammer+ Countermeasures = Stack fully Trace Jammer+ Countermeasures + Stealth = Stack fully Trace Scanner + Trageting = Stack fully Let me know if I missed anything. I only developed stealth for the exact reason you stated, the Espionage Academy, LOL I still see no effects on ships from any of the Admirals or Buildings, Military Academy, Command, etc displayed on the ships themselves. Only Components seem to count. Maybe just a display bug, but a ship with components only is +35% Target, +40% countermeasures, an Admiral that adds +16% Targeting, +12% countermeasures, +11% damage, none of those display
I am not sure if your taking any ideas for videos, so I will just throw out the request and see what happens. I am very new to distant worlds. I have been looking at the invasion mechanic. Googled the topic and mainly have learned their is little information out there and what people do say is read your guide. But... I do not like to read..... so I skimmed over the topic but it seemed like a more in depth thing. Also auto-invade is broken in my opinion. Maybe a how to, when to, why you would pass on some independents. and many other things a new person would not think of. Anyways. Thank you for the mechanics you have shown. Super helpful
Hi and glad you liked it. I am taking requests and invasions are on the list. Couple of quick answers: 1) Almost always use dimplomacy for independents. Bribe and request highest trade agreement. 2) Check suitability. Be sure it’s 20+ or don’t bother. 3) Manually do invasions. 4) Don’t invade races that are bad at assimilating (see chart in my guide)
5 space for a jammer to give 10% chance to make the enemy miss is insanely good. Think of it this way, 10% countermeasures means it takes 10% more shots on average to down your ship. More when you consider shield recovery. The only time this wouldn't be the case is if they have over 100% hit chance. Pretty sure that is very rare. Also can stealth modules stack? The numbers getting easily overwhelmed by sensor power make a lot more sense if that is the case. It also wouldn't be a completely terrible strategy since if they stack that means the countermeasures do too. Two stealth modules plus some jamming and voila you have an evade ship that requires sensor stacking to see coming. The Xenox come to mind. Extra sensor and defense slots on their ships with the fast recharge shields. Evade a ton while the occasional hit gets shielded and recovered from extra quickly. Makes me think they were designed with a stealth and jammer strategy in mind. Doubly so considering they are the spy specialized race.
The good jammer and good stealth are all late game. I'm all for putting a Jammer on for 5 space - once you get the tech. But I'd rather spend my limited early tech getting better shields or a shield capacitor. There is another (different) stealth component (Starfield if I remember) that is race specific. That will stack. But 2 normal stealth sheaths, for example, do not stack their stealth (just the countermeasures). And yes - fast shield recharge is very powerful and a good early goal.
What stacks? Would it be worth making some exploration ships with stacked stealth and long range sensors and no weapons or armor/shields to sit around in open space as spy ships?
Anytime you add another identical component most things do not stack. The countermeasures and tracking DOES stack as does shield recharge and a few others. When making a custom ship in the design screen, scroll down the right pane. As you add components you can watch the stats of the ships change. This will guide you as to what stacks and what doesn't. If you have DIFFERENT components, usually most things stack. Exception might be short range AND long range sensors - but I never tested that.
Scott, stars would seem to interfere with detection. Do they appear to affect detection range? I know you didn’t know when you did this video because you say so but has anything changed?
Have you considered using stealth components on civilian ships, colony ships et cetera? I would imagine that stealth could be useful protection for non-combat ships during war.
Aren't scanning powers additive ? So having 4 ships grants a much better scanning power than having one ship. Maybe that's why things get hidden after you delete the first ship: because you lose power. Not sure if you are really only testing the distance here.
The only test with multiple ships was the trace scanner. I just ran it again, this time with only 1 ship at a time. Same results. Let me know if you find something differently. Thanks Ozone!
Hmm playing as Mortalens no I see that their lack of sensor slots really hurts! All of their smaller hulls have only 1 slot for sensor which is a shame because I love their destroyers otherwise
Just a thought with the station. With it been a stationary item, is it not a "last seen" information kind of thing. Like what would happen if you spawned a ship in at range in a system that you knew had a station in but hadn't found yet, would it still pick it up?
As far as it existing, I think so. But if you watch the vid on the trace scanner - you'll see the detailed information disappear as it backs off. If you have never been to a system and you get close with a short range scanner - for example - I think you will just see a bigger gray blob.
Dang it man. I keep watching instead of playing! Glad that you mention range. It is such a useless number out of context yet every thing uses it. Unfortunately, I'm going to keep watching... ;-)
Why does any of this matter? Your ships and fleets do what they want when they want. In my experience (doesn't matter if they are on manual, or automatic) they will do what they want, and you can't stop them. Order them to stop, not going to happen. In fact, ordering them to do anything has no meaning in the game. So really, why worry about making better ships. Just fire up the game and watch it like a movie destroy the faction you set up. That is the only value (really no value to me) the game has. You watch as the AI destroys you with no recourse possible. It's not really a game as much as a really bad simulation of a game.
@@scottsspace5562 Yep, you are all world, no getting around that. As for being right, I call it the way I see it. Don't really see the point in calling it the way you see it when I don't see it that way. BTW, I am not the only one who noticed the games glaring defects. It has a bad rep on the steam store page for a reason. Ignoring the games bugs/bad design does not make them go away. I do give you props for being really good at it, and sharing tips. Just saying it would be better to highlight some things that are very wrong with the game at the same time. I watched a couple of your videos to get tips. Then realized the game is basically unfinished trash selling for full price.
Lol. Sarcasm aside - It most definitely has issues. But fleets can be controlled well enough with the right settings. If you had said it’s not easy to figure out how to do that for new players I would agree too. But you went right to DEFCON 1 with “the sky is falling!” which was just ranting so I went with humor.
@@scottsspace5562 Well the right setting is not "guard planet" apparently. To make matters worse, fleets don't go on suicide missions, (that have nothing to do with guarding the planet) as a fleet. First the AI will send in fuel tankers (by themself). Then it works it's way up from the weakest ships, and sends them in one or two at a time to make sure surviving is not going to happen. You are telling me that attacking an enemy base that is OP, is what "guard planet" means? I rest my case on that glaring chunk of code alone. It should never have even been considered as part of the AI. Not to mention thinking it's a great "feature." This is only one of the many, shall we say questionable design decisions. It will take more intellectual power than the developers have shown, to fix this game.
@@xerxes8632 look at you! Specifics! Now it’s a better discussion! I’m so proud of you. Yes - it takes an understanding of the flaws and weaknesses and sometimes avoiding them. Small Example - you can’t just say guard planet - you have to set attack range to be “nearby”. And that isn’t the best design to be this complex. No argument. But a far cry from the sky is falling. And by no way do I mean to try to convince you that the game is right for you. But if you hate the game/return it - then good for you!
I'm late to the party, but still wanted to leave a thanks for the very well put together videos. It shows you're a teacher, clean presentation, staying on topic, easy to follow, etc. Very efficient :)
I really appreciate that you do these things clearly and systematically, leaving one in no doubt how things work. Also handy that you give a summary and advice. I follow your logic and will be doing much the same with my ship designs in future. As an aside, because I am a pedant, I get a tick whenever you say solar system....star system, planetary system or just system would be better.
Glad you like it. I also say starbase instead of spaceport sometimes as well. It's annoying to me too. My brain is thinking too fast for my mouth.
I do recommend bringing a combat ship with Long Range Sensor in a fleet as soon as the hull with 120 size sensor slot is available(which varied by race), it's capability for early warning and pursuit is unparalleled.
I don't disagree - see my reply to Bella above.
Super clear and helpful. This clears up a lot of my questions around this stuff!
Great to hear!
Thanks for the video and not only giving your opinions but demonstrating visually how all this worked. I had been hesitant using trace scanners because of the zero range thing... But I'm going to plop them into all of my ships now except for escort ships that I attach a couple onto each fleet. They can keep the short range scanners.
I think that is a good strategy early game.
Thanks for the informative videos on DW2, I appreciate that you take the time to look into different areas in-depth with examples (so I don't have to). In regards to Stealth tech, I agree that it's not worth the size hit to put stealth on a ship meant for combat. However, there are cases where I will use stealth, which are: 1) I will put stealth tech on any ships I build as Long Range Scanner ships (basically spy ships). Then I can park the LRS ship near enemy systems with less chance of it being seen and chased away or destroyed. 2) The other place I'll use stealth is on valuable lone bases such as research bases and sometimes resort bases. This just makes it harder for the enemy to spot and target those vulnerable bases.
So glad you like them, thanks for the kind words. Yes - those are 2 good examples where it might make sense! Thanks for sharing with everyone! And I will take a look at them again if the Devs end up buffing stealth. Finally - I HAVE been able to (once) go right up to a pirate base with a high stealth ship and not get attacked (even though devs said that shouldn't happen). But I can't reproduce with other race spaceports. Strange. That would add value but it rarely seems to work.
The jump tracking percentage might be confusing, but from my observation and deduction it's the ability to track warp bubble & jump trace, the percentage is essentially a power scaling value. Which affects how far the jumping target has its empire and role as well as trace scan related stats is revealed.
Yes - I demo this (during long range scan) I just don't go into the math of it. If my ship was closer to the Pirate Frigate - we would have seen where it was going and been able to give chase too.
I really enjoy these videos, and I understand it's a lot of work (doing the actual testing and then editing the video), thanks a lot for that!
Glad you like them!
I love your channel, you explain complex matter in a very clear and consise way. Keep it up!
Glad you like them!
Yo, your videos are awesome. Great work!! Wish I had this kind of info for every niche/turbonerd game I play, LOL.
Looking forward to your future videos!
Awesome video thank you. I really need this information and understanding.
So glad. And thanks for the kind words.
THanks so much for the ivdeo these are really helpful! Wish the game had more tooltips and explaiend wha tit means with the dotted circles and such when you select a ship with all different colours.
Nice, was looking forward to this. Just started watching. One thing you might want to do for the next video is up the in game graphic setting (forget the name). It will smooth out the overlays so they aren't banded. It was put in to prevent crashes but if you don't suffer from those, it would look better to turn them on.
Good point. It gets reset with every update. I actually like the bands, however, for scanners when discussing range.
Super helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for your content, It is very appreciated and helpful. Do you has plans to release a video explaining ship/fleet tactics? About how the tactics overridden each others and how to set up the tacticts when you have diferent roles integrated in the same fleet. That will be great. Thankns again
It's on the list (each video takes 20+ hours prep) and I hope to get to it soon. My guide does explain this a bit if you haven't see it yet (link in the description in the other videos)
I like to put stealth items on exploration ships and colony ships.
I don't know if they actually work, but it makes me happy to think it helps.
Very cool idea. Never thought of trying that. Thanks for sharing!
great info. thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Outstanding good work! :) Thank you so much for it! This game could be the new star in the 4x-Universe, if there would be better explanation!
Thanks for this. Your videos have been very informative.
Glad it was helpful!
Also like you said while stealth is weaker on large ships that extra bit of countermeasures is an amazing factor but hard to pin down on real vale due to rng.
Agreed - it's all about prioritization of research. So if my spies steal the tech, etc. - I might use it on a very large ship.
One point, the countermeasures get increasingly more powerful if you stack everything that adds to it. Iirc you can get a base 40%, a little from thrusters, and subtract any enemy targeting. But once you have a high %, each additional % is worth a lot. Reducing hit chance from 70 to 65 is trivial, but 35 to 30 is really nice. How high can you get it?
A simple solution to trace and short range scanner advantage is to mix. I'd like the bonus on my damage ships, but you can mix in a few weaker ships with short range scanners. Frigates or maybe even escorts, with cautious behaviour and just some support fire (long range missiles, ion weapons or some point defense).
Would a long range scanner be something you could add to a fuel tanker design? In addition to normal fuel tankers you add to each fleet, these would work as flying monitor bases you could park anywhere. Alternatively a slow ship without fuel, just collectors, that could just sit anywhere. is that possible?
I think very tailored fleets might give an edge and be convenient to instantly know which number means what. Like each odd fleet a defense fleet, and half the even fleets (2, 6, 10, ...) standard attack fleets. Fleets 4, 8, 12, etc can then be specialised attack fleets. One main fleet, an invasion fleet and several support fleets. You could have designs fit to roles within each of these fleets.
You could take this further and make half fleets, each working in pairs. With 1 a defense fleet, 3 could be a support fleet, the pirate hunting part of the fleet usually set to defend but easily selectable. 2 and 4 will then be parts of an attack fleet designed to work together and with different settings. This might also help with refueling, retrofitting or repairing fleets in two steps so you're not too vulnerable.
So all good ideas you mention! It is important to organize the names of your fleets as yo mention. The only thing is that the fuel tankers sometimes leave the system in search of fuel and then come back. But it might work most of the time.
I was thinking of doing a short on trying to make a tank ship - and testing it. It's on my list. So at that time I think I'll be able to answer you. They do stack though just to confirm (thought there is always a minimum TO HIT change of 1/12).
- I didn't say this in the vid but I often make a command cruiser with Long Range and then just don't build too many of them. Maybe 3 to a fleet. I put mostly defense and PD on it to keep it alive. I also put Fleet Tracking and Fleet Countermeasures (when I get to that tier). Then I have mostly fast destroyers and eventually light carriers. So I still recommend having one ship with Long Range Sensors as soon as it's viable (for chasing fleets, jump tracking) - but most of my ships doing the work are using trace scanners - and early game I use them exclusively.
@@scottsspace5562
How expensive is the upkeep if fuel tankers, too much for redundancy? If you have two they can swap places. Or have one tied to the closest space port of fuel mining station and see what it does on auto (it could ferry fuel to fuel tankers or to nearest fleets?).
I googled bases and found a reddit on defense, monitor and unspecified stations but it was for DWU. A mentioned downside of have full space stations on every colony is that it spreads your resources, annoying when building huge fleets in one place mostly. The solution would be to have lesser stations everywhere. Or maybe you can set all resources to keep nothing in stock except fuel?
Having monitor stations with long range scanners all over seems awesome and defense/fuel stations on all weak colonies that you don't want a spaceport on. Is that possible? What can you build on places that are not (yet) colonies? If you can't build custom stations where you want, can you have a alternative design mining station for shitty resources/asteroids just to give you visibility and maybe a refueling point? Or is that simply too expensive?
@@scottsspace5562
Command cruiser seems awesome. You have dreadnoughts too? they seem like the ultimate ship!
@@teambellavsteamalice by the time I get them, the game is more or less over (I'm dominating) so it's not so exciting. I use slow research so it takes longer to get there.
Trace scan is the additional ability to determine other ship's cargo, onboard troops, characters and component status, but with much shorter range, and countered by trace jammer(when lower than jamming power).
One can think it as FCR (high resolution/penetrating) instead of ELINT sensor/EW radar(long range but low resolution) that normal scan represent. Trace scanner is more useful on combat ships and as counter to trace jammer(when higher than jamming power).
In actual senario, normal sensor is good enough to collect all the info from unknown entities til they start to equip trace jammers/stealths. By which the trace scanner is needed to collect those info from the unknown entities, but with a much shorter distance than before(trace scanner has high power but low range).
That is the official line. But the Short Range sensors (with no trace scanner) also shows ship's cargo, troops, and component status (as you can see in vid).
@@scottsspace5562 Yes, as short range sensor does have trace scan attribute then it possess the ability to reveal details as well, though in relatively short distance(due to low power and range) and prone to jamming. And that's why I only recommend to put trace scanner on combat ships and when enemy start to equip jammers.
@@renyaoqin I know that - it’s on my chart in the video. I think you missed my point. If you watched my video, the short range and long range sensors can see troops, components, etc all the way across the system. That’s FARTHER than the trace scanners. So there is no proof that even if the AI used jammers (I’ve never seen them use them) it would be able to reduce the range of similar tier sensors scanner ability significantly enough to make trace scanners required to supplement the sensors- remember the sensors get more powerful faster as you go up in tiers than the jammers.
@@scottsspace5562 I agree and I'm not intend to start an arguement, as I commenting above: "In actual senario, normal sensor is good enough to collect all the info from unknown entities til they start to equip trace jammers/stealths"
Erik does talk about stealth mechanics in the matrix forum, which I can deduct the formula out of the value he provides like the one you showed in the video. I would assume trace scan calculations follow the same formula which means the first tier jammer could cancel out any short/long range trace scanning capabilities (with the exception of Ultra long range v3 as your chart shows). And if AI doesn't have any jamming or stealth components that means their effective jamming capabilities is zero, by which short range and long range sensor can reveal AI ship's cargo when they entering the sensor's maximum trace scanning range.
But if AI does have jammers on their ship, I don't think player would be able to tell any trace related info from afar. Even with a same tier trace scanner it would have very limited range due to power/range scaling.
Again I think this could be a very interest warfare type to experience and play with(from both side), if future update can tailoring it well.
My apologies - I read your post too fast. I see now where you said short and long see across the system. I thought you hadn’t realized that. So yes - I see your point. It is possible the jammer could cancel enough scanner power - but I don’t think practically it would happen in game (I’ve never seen it). And it wouldn’t stop me from seeing the ship itself to target. By that time I would have trace scanners (multi version) on all my ships and long range sensors on my command cruisers in every fleet. But again, good discussion! Something to watch for in game or if they ever buff the AI!
Nice video
Good Job. Thanks for the research.
Funfact:
The unit for Jumpdrives and Scanners are AU
3.000.000 M = 47,5 Ly
And we dot not placed in an acutal Galaxy, its more of a Starcluster Like M13 or other Messier-Objects.
I was under the impression that 1M was just 1 million in game units of distance?
Thanks for this! I've been wondering if stealth was worthwhile and it seems so far it isn't. Hopefully they'll find a way to make it more interesting and useful.
I hope so too!
@@scottsspace5562 what do u think about making it so even if in the same system it could mask the ships to look like pirate ships? when I looked at this I was hoping to be able to bombard or raid with a small fleet without gaining negative rep. not being able to do this on bigger ships due to penalty is fine but with frig/des/troop ships it would be nice to build a strike team that masked itself as a pirate faction to raid and kill civ ships to cripple a faction economy without being caught provided they don't have stronger tech.
Great points - not sure if it works that way. I think once you start bombarding - it will reveal you and cancel all stealth. But it would be cool if it did work that way.
@@scottsspace5562 no i agree that it doesn't work that way, otherwise u would not get negative rep for it. but I think it would make stealth more useful for waring nations.
The instant loss of definition makes me wonder if the scan power was being treated as combined. Does the Trace scanner targeting stack with the targeting scanner? BTW, the default Resort Bases include Long Range Scanners, cheaper and easier to spread than Monitor stations
This topic is certainly not crystal clear - although the stealth calculations are accurate for example. I do not think any new info is going to change my recommendation - I've been playing with these recommendations for many games and I've run into zero issues at war.
@@scottsspace5562 The only time I dabbled with stealth so far in DW2 was to park a specialty ship in an enemy system just to sit and watch. Too much of a pain to repeat in later games, lol In a system so the collectors could power everything but not at a location where it could be stumbled upon.
I am 99% sure the trace scanner stacks with a short range scanner, but within a single component - I don't think so. But let me know if you find out differently.
@@scottsspace5562 Okay ran a few sample combinations, Fleet Destroyer, New hull, so no other systems.
Trace Scanner + Short Range = Stacks fully
Trace Scanner + Long Range = Long Range overwrites the Trace Scanner. An odd bug Scan Range displayed is that of the last system added.
Trace Scanner + Trace Jammer = Stack fully
Trace Jammer+ Countermeasures = Stack fully
Trace Jammer+ Countermeasures + Stealth = Stack fully
Trace Scanner + Trageting = Stack fully
Let me know if I missed anything. I only developed stealth for the exact reason you stated, the Espionage Academy, LOL
I still see no effects on ships from any of the Admirals or Buildings, Military Academy, Command, etc displayed on the ships themselves. Only Components seem to count. Maybe just a display bug, but a ship with components only is +35% Target, +40% countermeasures, an Admiral that adds +16% Targeting, +12% countermeasures, +11% damage, none of those display
@@williamklett6660 Great summary - thanks. Yup - and as I mentioned elsewhere SOME things stack with identical components.
What about the utility of stealth cloaked Monitoring stations? Such that you can put eyes on key areas and up close to your enemies systems...?
Not a bad idea. Exploration ships are cheaper though.
I am not sure if your taking any ideas for videos, so I will just throw out the request and see what happens. I am very new to distant worlds. I have been looking at the invasion mechanic. Googled the topic and mainly have learned their is little information out there and what people do say is read your guide. But... I do not like to read..... so I skimmed over the topic but it seemed like a more in depth thing. Also auto-invade is broken in my opinion. Maybe a how to, when to, why you would pass on some independents. and many other things a new person would not think of. Anyways. Thank you for the mechanics you have shown. Super helpful
Hi and glad you liked it. I am taking requests and invasions are on the list. Couple of quick answers:
1) Almost always use dimplomacy for independents. Bribe and request highest trade agreement.
2) Check suitability. Be sure it’s 20+ or don’t bother.
3) Manually do invasions.
4) Don’t invade races that are bad at assimilating (see chart in my guide)
Thanks :)
5 space for a jammer to give 10% chance to make the enemy miss is insanely good. Think of it this way, 10% countermeasures means it takes 10% more shots on average to down your ship. More when you consider shield recovery. The only time this wouldn't be the case is if they have over 100% hit chance. Pretty sure that is very rare.
Also can stealth modules stack? The numbers getting easily overwhelmed by sensor power make a lot more sense if that is the case. It also wouldn't be a completely terrible strategy since if they stack that means the countermeasures do too. Two stealth modules plus some jamming and voila you have an evade ship that requires sensor stacking to see coming.
The Xenox come to mind. Extra sensor and defense slots on their ships with the fast recharge shields. Evade a ton while the occasional hit gets shielded and recovered from extra quickly. Makes me think they were designed with a stealth and jammer strategy in mind. Doubly so considering they are the spy specialized race.
The good jammer and good stealth are all late game. I'm all for putting a Jammer on for 5 space - once you get the tech. But I'd rather spend my limited early tech getting better shields or a shield capacitor. There is another (different) stealth component (Starfield if I remember) that is race specific. That will stack. But 2 normal stealth sheaths, for example, do not stack their stealth (just the countermeasures). And yes - fast shield recharge is very powerful and a good early goal.
Interesting video ... sounds like stealth technology could do with a buff
Agreed.
this is nice, i wish the descriptions of the items in-game would be more verbose about what they do or are meant to do :-)
There is certainly a dearth of information - they need to improve this.
What stacks? Would it be worth making some exploration ships with stacked stealth and long range sensors and no weapons or armor/shields to sit around in open space as spy ships?
Anytime you add another identical component most things do not stack. The countermeasures and tracking DOES stack as does shield recharge and a few others. When making a custom ship in the design screen, scroll down the right pane. As you add components you can watch the stats of the ships change. This will guide you as to what stacks and what doesn't. If you have DIFFERENT components, usually most things stack. Exception might be short range AND long range sensors - but I never tested that.
Scott, stars would seem to interfere with detection. Do they appear to affect detection range? I know you didn’t know when you did this video because you say so but has anything changed?
Almost nothing has changed. Not sure stars do - but let me know if you test it and find out they do.
Have you considered using stealth components on civilian ships, colony ships et cetera? I would imagine that stealth could be useful protection for non-combat ships during war.
I don’t think there is room generally. Most civilian ships are easily replaced w exception of colony ships.
Aren't scanning powers additive ? So having 4 ships grants a much better scanning power than having one ship. Maybe that's why things get hidden after you delete the first ship: because you lose power. Not sure if you are really only testing the distance here.
The only test with multiple ships was the trace scanner. I just ran it again, this time with only 1 ship at a time. Same results. Let me know if you find something differently. Thanks Ozone!
You don't play the zenox much, do you? 😁 They have crystal sensors.
Hmm playing as Mortalens no I see that their lack of sensor slots really hurts! All of their smaller hulls have only 1 slot for sensor which is a shame because I love their destroyers otherwise
I haven't played them yet - but I plan to try them all
You would think that with a name like trace scanner it could in fact specialize in tracing warp jumps not ignore them completely
It's v1.0 scanner. Maybe 2.0 does a better job. Long range much better at jump tracking.
Just a thought with the station. With it been a stationary item, is it not a "last seen" information kind of thing. Like what would happen if you spawned a ship in at range in a system that you knew had a station in but hadn't found yet, would it still pick it up?
As far as it existing, I think so. But if you watch the vid on the trace scanner - you'll see the detailed information disappear as it backs off. If you have never been to a system and you get close with a short range scanner - for example - I think you will just see a bigger gray blob.
Dang it man. I keep watching instead of playing! Glad that you mention range. It is such a useless number out of context yet every thing uses it. Unfortunately, I'm going to keep watching... ;-)
Any point in putting stealth on a station?
Why does any of this matter? Your ships and fleets do what they want when they want. In my experience (doesn't matter if they are on manual, or automatic) they will do what they want, and you can't stop them. Order them to stop, not going to happen. In fact, ordering them to do anything has no meaning in the game. So really, why worry about making better ships. Just fire up the game and watch it like a movie destroy the faction you set up. That is the only value (really no value to me) the game has. You watch as the AI destroys you with no recourse possible. It's not really a game as much as a really bad simulation of a game.
I know right? Yet somehow I beat the game on hardest difficulty. So weird cause you are always right about everything.
@@scottsspace5562 Yep, you are all world, no getting around that. As for being right, I call it the way I see it. Don't really see the point in calling it the way you see it when I don't see it that way. BTW, I am not the only one who noticed the games glaring defects. It has a bad rep on the steam store page for a reason. Ignoring the games bugs/bad design does not make them go away. I do give you props for being really good at it, and sharing tips. Just saying it would be better to highlight some things that are very wrong with the game at the same time. I watched a couple of your videos to get tips. Then realized the game is basically unfinished trash selling for full price.
Lol. Sarcasm aside - It most definitely has issues. But fleets can be controlled well enough with the right settings. If you had said it’s not easy to figure out how to do that for new players I would agree too. But you went right to DEFCON 1 with “the sky is falling!” which was just ranting so I went with humor.
@@scottsspace5562 Well the right setting is not "guard planet" apparently. To make matters worse, fleets don't go on suicide missions, (that have nothing to do with guarding the planet) as a fleet. First the AI will send in fuel tankers (by themself). Then it works it's way up from the weakest ships, and sends them in one or two at a time to make sure surviving is not going to happen. You are telling me that attacking an enemy base that is OP, is what "guard planet" means? I rest my case on that glaring chunk of code alone. It should never have even been considered as part of the AI. Not to mention thinking it's a great "feature." This is only one of the many, shall we say questionable design decisions. It will take more intellectual power than the developers have shown, to fix this game.
@@xerxes8632 look at you! Specifics! Now it’s a better discussion! I’m so proud of you. Yes - it takes an understanding of the flaws and weaknesses and sometimes avoiding them. Small Example - you can’t just say guard planet - you have to set attack range to be “nearby”. And that isn’t the best design to be this complex. No argument. But a far cry from the sky is falling. And by no way do I mean to try to convince you that the game is right for you. But if you hate the game/return it - then good for you!