South African R2 and its Special Furniture
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2019
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In South African military service, the R1 was the FN FAL and was the preferred infantry combat rifle until the adoption of the Galil as the R4 rifle. So what were the guns in between? Well, the R2 was a South African adaptation of the G3. A large number of rifles were needed as a reserve, and also to equip second echelon units like the Air Force, Cape Corps, and South West Africa Territorial Force. To reduce the expense of this, South Africa purchased something like 100,000 G3 rifles from Portugal and designated them R2.
The Portuguese hand guards and buttstocks were found to be unsatisfactory, however. In the heat and harsh ultraviolet radiation of South West Africa (now Namibia) in particular, the plastic would shrink and lose its fit, leading to the guns being called "rattlers" by the SADF troops. The fix this, the American firm of Choate Machine & Tool was contracted to make new hand guards based on the H&K export pattern - wider and longer and with fittings for a bipod. New stocks were also made, duplicating the shape of the R1/FAL stock.
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Everyone: Which is better, FAL or G3?
South Africa: yes
Cuz why not? They are both 7.62x51, both have pretty good accuracy and reliability.
😂😂
This is a spicy meme
R een
cringe
"R2-G3 what are you doing?" "Getting new furniture, nothing to see here. Move along."
Beep beep beep bee bee beep
Don't get technical with me you overweight glob of cosmoline.
This unit has a better motivator,
I thouth the same xD
Oh a portuguese G3.... My rifle for 5 years... Mine was manufactured in november of 73. I still remember the serial number. 291460. By the way the fmp on the magazine well stands for Forças militares portuguesas (Portuguese military forces)
Fall >> G3
Service in Mozambique or Angola?
@@cobrajetter neither. I served from 2003 to 2008. But the g3 was in service still then and is now. Going to be replaced by the SCAR-l in a near future
Apologies. I saw 73 and assumed you were possibly involved in the colonial wars with FRELIMO..
@@cobrajetter no need to apologise. The G3 in the portuguese army is a case of longevity. In service since the early 60's. Im not sure but i think the last batch of portuguese made G3 was manufactred in the early 90's. .
South Africa uses R to designate rifles? Now that's just too simple. You're supposed to label everything with an M and even use the same number for several guns.
/s
Well Germany has used G for Gewehr (rifle or gun in German) plus either the year or later the model number so.... (regrets in American).
@@joeblow9657 Afrikaaners are also Germanic descendants.
@@armandpotgieter9911 What's your point. They didn't use G to designate their rifles
And tanks*
@@armandpotgieter9911 well Dutch, I know cause I’m South African
I've lived in South Africa for 15 years and never knew we used G3s!!!
No wonder, these R2's were used in South West Africa by the terretorial force. Not very popular by the SADF troopies, I heard.
I was thinking the exact same thing! I'm feeling a little dense that I'd never heard of the R2 and R3 before.
vncube1, me too😂 I only found out recently from my dad's friend who was a Recce. He used a G3, while his squad used Ak 47s. He said the G3 was good but a bit clumsy
vncube1 we didnt. It was used by special forces and SWATF. Not our regular units except maybe 32 Battalion. Mostly from captured stock.
@@blaisechalmers1464 It's a bit bulky and heavy, but can double as a club when needed. A G3 in good condition is a very reliable and fairly accurate weapon, though I've been told the recoil impulse of the FAL is considered to be nicer. I wouldn't know as I only have experience with the G3 and never even touched a FAL.
The ZP or Zululand Police used them. After amalgamation in 94 we trained the ZP reserves who all were issued G3 or R2s and CZ75. They were in a shocking state as their armourers were not interested in servicing the weapons. Once they had been serviced and cleaned they were very good weapons. Not quite as good as the R1 but good enough. Much lighter and smaller they suited smaller stayer soldiers and police officers.
Ian. My previous post went missing. You have it a bit wrong here. The R1 was the FAL made locally. The R2 was the folding stock paratrooper version. The R3 was a semi auto and heavy barrel version for police use. The Kommandos was issued the same rifles that the regular army units used. Not semi auto versions. The G3 was issued for various purposes such as infiltrations in neighboring countries where deniability was required. It was also used and given to our allies. Bought from Portugal. Hmmm really? Not quite. Captured in vast quantities in Angola a former Portuguese colony rather.
Frikkie Coetzee Frikkie is correct Ian. I grew up in South West Africa and the G3’s were designated just that. Also most of those came from Angola after the Portuguese left there. Similarly in SA the G3 was always designated just that a G3
Someone who knowes his stuff
Ian is at least partially correct. It is true that SA captured a number of G3 rifles during operations in Angola, but numbers were not that great. When Portugal suddenly abnadoned their African colonies, in the mid-seventies, their military commitments were vastly reduced and they were left with large stocks of weapons surplus to their needs. South Africa bought large numbers of G3 rifles from Portugal, at very favourable terms. The R1 rifle had at that time been out of production for a number of years. Restarting production would have been very expensive and SA was already considering a switch to 5.56.
The SA Army also introduced large numbers of left-hand drive Unimog trucks in the mid-seventies. These were apparently also a Portuguese order which was taken over by SA after Portugal cancelled their order with Daimler Benz. There was further cooperation with the Portuguese in the eighties, during the development of the Oryx and Rooivalk helicopters.
Frikkie - wrong - I have the official SADF manual (s) that refer to the R2 as the H&K G3 and have the associated pics etc. that shows thus beyond a doubt.
yes the R1 was made off from the old Fn rifle from France,
So glad we haven’t run out of these SA videos 👌
The blue semi auto switch is quite a clever way of arming reservists.
@Zack Ceasar Why pointless when FAL's are very rarely useful in full auto?
@@thestr8person Not with a Halbek device
Especially with a Halbek device
If you can swap back to full auto, yeah.
The Swedis army had a similar thing. We got a red selectror switch when we were on guard duty. That made it semi only. The thought behind it was that it would stop you from emptying the magazine if you paniced in some situation.
We used R4 in RSA during training, changed to HK G3 next year at 911Bn in SWA/Namibia, during the year changed to R1.
R1 for Commando duty at home, in gunsafe on farm after national service, fully automatic. The good old days of home security.
R1 my favorite.
R2-G3 it is you, it is you!
God bless you sir. I was waiting for Ian to say something like that for nearly the entire video, but alas, he did not.
Starting my day with a Forgotten Weapons video on a G3 pattern rifle and a cup of coffee. It's gonna be a good day!
That's how I like to end mine - It makes everything else better!
The R5 was our carry rifle but we used the R2 as a drill rifle ( SAAF basic training 1988). The R2 was a total piece of crap. I dropped mine onto my matress and snapped the stock in half.The only up side of the R2 was that during drill/parade you could pop out the captive stock pin and hook it in your pants pocket, so you did not need to carry the full rifle weight during a two and a half hour parade.
I live in USA and back in the mid 80's acquired a new Springfield Armory SAR-3. This is a semiautomatic G3/HK91 clone made in Greece by Hellenic Arms (EBO), under HK licensing & tooling and imported by Springfield Armory.
Over the years I've bought all types of furniture and accessories for it, including this same South African furniture set.
Very cool indeed to see some history on these.
4:00 The Norwegian G3`s were the same, to stop the rattling in the field, they put moss or small twigs inside the handguard. No upgrades were put into place. No wonder, since that nations forces are all about saving money where they need not to, and spend all where it does not matter- LOL. Great vid as always by the way Ian!
Ian, you may want to double check your sources. After carrying the R4 for two years, I served in two different Kommando units and carried a standard R1. The R2 was the paratrooper folding stock version of the R1. The R3 was the SA version of the G3.
Nope R3 was Semi auto G3 both are R2 or newer got a R
Damn you must be like 50-60 by now
Brain makes me think that due to the people I know who served due to mandatory service being really old
Only the Airforce designated the G3 as the R2. The other services called it what it was.....a G3.
An R2 was the folding stock R1.
R3 was a semi auto R1 issued to the SAP as personal weapons. And not used on border duty.
There seems to be a lot of differing view from individuals that all served in the SANDF...
Probably because of inconsistency in the SANDF.
My experience was that the R1 is a FAL, R2 is a shotened folding stock FAL and the R3 was a G3. Kommandos was issued semi auto R1s, but I know for a fact that there are cases where the kommandos swopped out the selectors for full autos...
I feel no need to inform anyone I was serving, where or when, to prove to anyone I am a man.
My girlfriend's dad carried an R1 during his time with the 32nd Battalion during the Angolan war. I saw quite a few Portuguese contract rifles in Kenya and Tanzania both.
I remember seeing some of these back when I was doing my ''Diensplig'' (national service) whilst we in the army were armed with R1s ( FALs, these were being phased out back in 88-89 when I was there, or R4s ( Galils), the air force boys had these R2 things I seem to recall.
It would be very cool if you got your hands on a Norwegian G3(AG3), specifically the later versions like the AG3-F2 with its modernized tactical furniture, retractable stock etc. Or even better, an AK5(Swedish FNC derivative)! Have you ever done an FNC video? I don't remember ever seeing one.
He has a FNC video, but it's pretty old and the video- and sound quality isn't that great.
There is indeed a video on the Ak-5, but it is quite old and the quality is really bad. (Edit, the video is about the FNC)
Check out the Brazilian Imbel IA2, a modernized and heavily modified FAL, produced in 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm, check it ou on Google, it's a nice rifle, but i can't use it since the base i serve have only shitty old modified Gewehr 98's.
He should have done it for Syttende Mai!
@@GunsNGames1 Its really cool yeah.
In my time in the Portuguese army the handguard rattling was resolved with a cigarette filter on the lower part of the handguard, but just in combat, on parade the filter was removed, when the palm of the hand hits the handguard it will make a louder sound. 🇵🇹
i was in the SWA Territorial Force, and our standard rifle was the R-1 plastic stock. Never saw a R-2. The R1 was our standard issue in 1987.
I was in the SAAF 83-85 and was issued this in basic training. we had the older version and the front guards rattled then we had to do a lot of parades and would push the 2 pins out a bit that holds the butt stock and hook it on out pants pocket so as to take the weight off our arms, just hope the drill instructor did not catch you doing it otherwise we would have to hold the rifle up in front of us and march on the spot. this rifle still packet a mean punch
Welcome to South Africa, I hope you have a wonderful stay.
The R2 foregrip LOOKS SO GOOD
I was issued the G3 in the South African Air Force during basic training in 1981. I was under the impression that these were weapons we confiscated during our visits to Angola and Mozambique. Would love to know if that's true.
R does not neccessary stand for Rifle but earlier for Republiekswapen 1,2 etc
Which basically means Republic weapon 1,2,3 etc
I think he meant the R was selected to stand for rifles, like G (G36) for the Germans and L (L1A2) for the British maybe? I'm just guessing here
If R1 is the South African FAL, the R2 is the G3, and the R4 is the Galil. May I ask what went to become the R3?
Ian Kenneth Leganada R3 is the semi only version of the R1
@@si_vis_pacempara_bellum4906 oh, okay. R3 is a semi auto FAL but not necessarily a variant of the L1A1, right?
Love any rifle like a g3 or a g3 definitely one of the best looking guns ever made
I'm a boer and a proud one. Thanks for the SA videos ian.
The boer kommandos saying was " met god en mauser"
With god and mauser.
God
Long live the Boer! God Bless from the USA.
Always cool hearing about the military firearms history of my country, love the vids keep it up!!!
Hi, Ian! I served in the Portuguese Army and I can tell you the looseness of the portuguese handguards is intentional: our G3s could have a bipod installed between the hanguard and the magazine well, like the one in this picture: www.hkpro.com/forum/attachments/hk-long-gun-talk/34680d1440707996-hk-g3-91-heavy-bipod-g3-6-.jpg
As for the rattling, we had a field solution: we used cigarette butts, wedged between the handguard and the receiver, to stop the clacking.
As a sadf collector ,I love watching your videos on south African weapons
I remember Cub Scout camps in SWA outside Windhoek in the late 70’s. Brigadier “Radish” Radmore (in the SWATF, founder of their bomb disposal unit), our Scouts “District Commissioner”, organised R2’s for our fathers to stand guard with at night. We had to dig trenches around our tents in case of attacks by SWAPO insurgents. Whistle signal drills were practiced to get us out of our tents and into the trenches. I nearly pee’d my pants prematurely when nature called and I bumped into one of the dads armed with one of these outside our Six tent one night. Good memories!
Thank you so much!! One of the best video channels on YT! Thank you for focussing on the “good” of SA too! God bless you!
I was in the SWATF in '82/'83, and we were issued with these. The stock and butt change-over happened in '82 while I was in training at Military School outside Okahandja. During basic training in Walvis Bay it already became clear how fragile the butts were. Several broke off during training in the sand dunes of the Namib. Many of it quite on purpose.
What surprised me of the rifle was that despite its flimsy construction, it was remarkably accurate. But stoppages (storings) happened frequently. Some rifles could just never be oiled enough.
Oil and sand is a terrible combination. My father lubricated is R1 with a dry lubricant(Graphite powder), to avoid sand and oil mixing into a gunky mess in the trigger group and bolt.
The amount of weapons variety that exists in the "Africa" we know and have some access to is astounding!
Keep on uncovering the hidden gems Ian!! It is enlightening!
A lot of these rifles can still be seen in use. Its rare but theyre out there. I love the south african videos. Gives some explanation to all the rifles i saw guys using when i was growing up.
I agree with Frikkie's comments. I can remember the noise these G3 rifles made when being fired. It was completely different from the R1 from the firers point of view. In Angola and other places in Africa there are many ancient rifles still in the hands of local farmers. I saw several and wondered about their history. It would be a great place for gun enthusiasts to collect ancient rifles from.Keep it up. Great Videos. From Ireland.
We had the same problem in Norway - we'd just stuff grass between the hand guard and barrel to stop rattling.
Serriyøst?
'Yeast.
thanks Ian! greeting from durban , south africa.
Hi Ian, we also had a R7 heavy barrel sniper rifle with ports facing upwards to prevent dust being kicked up during fire.
Is like a PSG-1?
The R7 was not a sniper rifle, it was a squad automatic weapon. Not only that but it was a prototype weapon. I think you may be confusing the R7 with the R4 designated marksman rifle.
@@gustavferreira627you may be confusing r7 with ss77
The r7 was just basically a r4 based on a newer galil model. Not a sniper rifle though, bit definitely not a squad machine gun.
Fun thing, the Swedish army had a similar safety for the AK 4 (Licensed G3) that was to be used when the weapon would be used in a guard situation. Mostly when a unit would do a tour as Royal Guards, they would swap out their normal safety for a semi-auto one.
Not sure if it´s exactly the same, but the effect was similar.
Kommando units here in the old SWA were issued R1 fully automatic rifles. The G3's were captured in thousands in Angola and initially issued to police reservists. Many were given to Unita. Locally they were called "grassnyers" or lawnmowers. Mostly reliable and some also quite accurate., but after the FAL we didn't like them too much.
PPAP "i have a FAL, I have a G3, UH! R2"
I honestly like the G3 rifle, but the furniture isn't the best, look wise. I really like the South African built furniture more
I agree the modified furniture has a really pleasing aesthetic
that front end is way cooler with the thicker handguard
Good video. I just want to add that, unlike in other parts of the world, in South Africa the coloureds are their own legally defined race; they and everybody else calls them coloured, not "mixed race". They have a unique subculture, slang, accent, and place in society (where they were oppressed by white supremecy during Apartheid, they're oppressed by the now black majority government). As far as I remember, they're also one of the most genetically/racially diverse ethnic groups in the world, with ancestors coming from SE Asia, Central Europe, as well as Southern and Central Africa. I left SA when I was a kid, though, so who knows how they feel about the term now.
Wow. Miss my airforce basics with the G3. R2. The rattle grip notice.
My dad served in the army (tropa) with one of these!
Worthwhile upgrades :) Thanks Ian
Awesome rifle Ian an thanks for the knowledge about it Sir
Are you going to be visiting any Anglo Boer war battle sites?
Thank you , Ian .
Awesome finally. I have 2 as a collector. Wondered if you're going to make a video on this
Whaat! I served in theSANDF from '84 to '86. Never even heard mention of an R2. Thank you for the eye opener.
I was in the SWATF by the end of the border war. Our Battalion used R4s. But we did hide a few shipping containers full of the G3s, (I can't remember that we called them R2s) incase we had to go back to South-West Africa in a hurry.
Thanks to the gunshop owner.
Watching all the way from South Africa.
I love how FW has a video for any vintage weapon I search.
I want to see some info about the mexican fx-05 rifle and would love this guy to make a video on it, just gotta love how he explains stuff
dawg this is the EXACT model of G3 that they use in Farcry 2, I have fond memories of using this gun in that game.
I did my national service for 2 years (1980/81) in the Airforce and we were issued with these G3 rifles. Called them an R2. The front guards did rattle a bit, but this made for a nice sound on parade when carrying out “shoulder arms” (skouer geweer! in the Afrikaans drill instructions as English was never used). We heard that they had been captured in large quantities in Angola.
Hi ian during my service in the sadf i saw both versions of the R2.Pity i never got to shoot them.However ive never seen the R3.
If you ever seen a SAP guy with a R1 that was a R3
I was in SAAF and carried a R2 as our drill rifle. Honestly it was a piece of crap. Dropped mine on my bunk and snapped the butt stock clean off. The only up side was if you slipped the butt pin partially out, you could hook it into your pants pocket, which meant you did not have to carry the full weight when marching. Was glad when we finally were issued R5's.
I readed about R2 around 88. I was in school back then. Brought back old memories from my youth.
Always willing to know more about south african weapons eccentricities.
Very interesting! I actually really like that handguard!
I love the way that handguard looks.
The handguards still rattle to this day.
Portuguese Army basic training "on the fly" fix: stick a cigarette bud in between the body and the handguard, just front of the trunnion.
That "South African" handguard is just a G3 wide handguard that equipped later production HK G3'd, with holes in it. Wondering who got the idea from whom...
Flavio R I have heard the cigarette bud solution as well.
@@judas_physicist , I used to carry a few on the canteen pouch, for me, and for the guys and girls that weren't smokers.
My uncle was equipped a R3 With extended mag and thus his had a bipod. But my father was Equipped with an R5 as he was conscripted a decade later than my uncle 1987-89. I am in the Israeli military and was originally trained on The CAR-15 / M4 but was initially equipped with the TAR-21 now with the X95.
Maak my trots om te weet iemand maak videos oor Suid Afrikaanse wapens. Ian is the best!
Lekker om Afrikaans op die platform te sien.
I never heard of anyone in kommando being issued with R3 rifles. We all got R1s or actual FN FALs like my dad did. It was probably policy in the 80's or something. The British armed forces used to use the semi auto version of the FN FAL. They called it SLR or Self Loading Rifle, then they moved onto the 5.56 SA80.
Makarov and webly on the same wall South Africa arms are colorful no doubt
Would really love to get my hands on a good set of R2 furniture.
@@BRING_GUNS Thank you. Sounds a little pricier than I'm willing to pay sadly.
Great video as always.
Out of interest, the word commando originates from the Afrikaans word kommando.
No the word commando and kommando originates from the Portugese word commando.
No the Afrikaans Kommando would rather have originated from the Spanish equivalent. Remember, the eighty years war? Well the Dutch picked the word up there because the word "Kommando" was already in use by the end of the 17th century in South Africa to describe organised bands of "Frijburghers" who came into their local towns to train once a year and who also had to answer the call to arms whenever a magistrate issued it.
I had one of those stock sets in the late 1990s.
Iirc, it had a slightly fuzzy texture and although the hand guard looks like a vented wide G3/HK-91 copy, the bipod slots weren't right for a factory HK light bipod.
I am a coloured from Cape Town🇿🇦 these videos make me even more patriotic
OK, one of your best lessons. i have always liked the G3. a friend had one . looks like a WORK HORSE for WAR.
That handguard is so cool looking.
I think this is what's called a "tropical" handguard. This sort of thing would actually be adopted into later production HK rifles and MP5s. All the original variants had slimmer handguards then went to a larger version later. This furniture might be the genesis of that.
oooh some mood lighting for this one
That hand guard looks sick.. 👍
i loved the old FN wood butt and then the r1 rubber butt ,, was a awesome rifle,, i was on the SWA border Feb 77 until june 77
upgrade successful!
compared to stock that new furniture makes that a very sexy firearm. be interesting to shoot them back to back and see what the feels are...
The navy Marines were issues with the old G3 then in about modified unit with the new grip . Later they had R 4's
When I see South African in the title I get excited lol
Its actually quite slick looking.
Gotta love 7.62
UPDATE (from my previous post 2 years ago).
As my initial post, I had acquired a set of this furniture for the G3. Unfortunately and funny enough as shown in the video, the rubber butt pads degrade and start falling apart. I spent some time researching a replacement unit and finally found that these butt pads are basically FAL designed. I was able to find some and are a perfect fit... Hope this helps anyone that may be going through the same issue.
Just 1 comment to add. People keep getting it wrong. Coloured, as known in Apartheid South Africa, referred to people of indigenous heritage. This referred to people of either the Khoi or San heritage, what was...then... referred to as Bushman, but also included people of Malay heritage. So basically 3 ethnicities condensed into one label.
Thanks, great video. Just one point where "colored" during the period could have referred to mixed race in general in this case (and in the majority of the use of the term) it refers to the Cape Malay people who are a separate cultural and ethnic group with rich traditions of their own.
Nonsense. There were no Malays in the Coloured Corps.
@@AviViljoen What do you mean by Malays? The term Cape Coloured and Cape Malay's were interchangeable when I was growing up?
@@petercollingwood522 They are two entirely different ethnic groups. They are not and have never been interchangeable. Cape Coloureds are composed primarily of persons of mixed race and Khoisan descent. Malays were originally from Malaysia and mostly came to South Africa as slaves.
In Greek army we have g3 with default stock but south african bipod handguards
because the R2's replacement stock doesn't have the holes that the G3 stock had, are the takedown pins captive in the R2 stock?
The handguard looks a lot like the one on my HK91A2, just with heat vents. Both can take the HK bipod and are much thicker than the smaller guard.
What are the revolvers in the column third from the left?
i was issued a G3 for basics at the South African Airforce Gymnasium in '86, the fore stock rattled like hell, the magazine was a bit loose in the well and the rear stock moved around a bit too.. delicately put, it was a piece of shit.. we were relieved to get R5's eventually.. : )
The kommando system wasn't integrated into the military at all. Think of it as rural farmer militias/supplementary police forces for rural areas where there isn't a large police presence. You're thinking of men who've done their initial 2 years conscription and are thereafter basically reservists until age 40, where they have to show up for service on an annual basis for about a month or two, depending on their age.
I'm sure the reason they used standard wide forend metal parts was to make it easier to produce as you could use stockpiled parts
I want to see you do a video on the UN-Gun. That's "UN" as in UN-Cola (remember those 7-Up ads?) not short for United Nations. The UN-Gun was a C02 powered beanbag launcher. A beanbag was loaded into the front of a plastic shell and a CO2 cartridge into the back. A hollow piercing needle was in the middle. IIRC the launcher was a break action breech loader. Pull back the bit that slams the CO2 cartridge into the needle to cock, pull the trigger to have it do its thing. *fwoosh* the beanbag goes thataway. The shells were originally plastic but had problems with splitting from the pressure, so die cast ones were made to replace them. It was advertised in and reviewed by various gun magazines in the 80's. There are similar devices sold now like the ARMA 100 but ISTR the UN-Gun having a buttstock and trigger.
Hey great video , so the solution wen i had mine was to put cigaret buts under the palm guard so its not noisy .
Beatas esponjas ramos qualquer coisa servia... mas na ordem unida tinha que saltar fora que tinha que se ouvir bater nos guarda maos...
Sim o tivéssemos a mão
I have a Century Arms C308, the CETME variant of this rifle, which has a picatinny rail on top, welded-on rear and front sites, and that low buttstock that makes getting a cheek weld with optics impossible. Any recommendations on a replacement buttstock that offers a cheek weld on equal plane as the receiver?
That South African Made "R2" was made on the same month and year that I was born!
¡ HAPPY 55 BUDDY!! 🥳🥳🥳💥🎂