That’s because that’s how feudalism started. It was literally a group of knights rocking up and saying: pay us tribute or we’ll kill you. It got so bad the Church had to get involved to essentially legitimise the whole thing to stop people dying. Oaths of loyalty were given and you’ve now got Feudalism.
@@SimonVandeGraaf In fairness Diocletian tied people to professions and locations for generations. Romans had Coms and Dux the origin of Count and Duke. It is the Germanic tribes that imposed themselves on an area as defacto lords that adopted the titles as well as tribute systems. "Feudalism" is a hybridisation of the Roman manoralism and another culture's own society imposed onto an area.
To some extend, yes. It highly depends oh how much of protection they really provide. I think it is better to pay taxes and have farm protected than just trying to bribe whatever dimple with a sword comes, because i will keep at least enough to survive, but yes, this can also very easily spiral into mafia-style wars... And that probably happened in many places, until a really powerful guy beat others around, put together a strong enough force and kept other suckers at good distance.
Well, wasn't feudalism kinda invented that way? The dude with the biggest/most fertile farm was basically sustaining the village and thus was able to pay for protection for it, eventually becoming the lord of said village, and since money is a superpower you can inherit... Well...
I suppose you could say feudalism is what humans naturally gravitate to, without any developed theories of statecraft or economics. All it really requires is people with power taking advantage of it. That's why I always have to laugh at people who think you can just get rid of the current systems of government and replace them with nothing. They always get really confused when I call them feudalists ^.^
I think the biggest aspect you overlooked was bounty hunters. Not in a sense of chasing humans, but cities or towns putting up cash rewards for killing the monsters nearby and providing proof. The bounties could be posted by the local government for safety concerns, or by an apothecary that uses the item in their potions. Once you accept that monsters are real, question how the people and government will react. Maybe a local lord wants to raise their political position by ensuring the safety of the townsfolk and travelers by hiring someone to take out the local goblins completely, but the local guard/military won't do it because they're unsure of the total number of goblins. Are the funds from a larger government or did the locals pool their money to take care of a problem? A small village constantly being attacked by goblins might petition the government to send soldiers out, but if it takes too long they might pool their money to have it taken care of quickly. An interesting plot point, would be to have a platoon of soldiers arrive the day after a group took care of a problem. Maybe the local farmers want to pay an armed escort to get to the big city to sell their excess produce. Maybe the army does regular troop movements and any civilians are allowed to follow. When monsters are real, world-building how society reacts to that can take you down so many roads.
This is how i see adventurers explained in most stories i read, and i think it makes by far the most sense. It also works great as a justification for quests in a game!
@@franciosdeaeruiu7555 In the books/games the Witchers are a dying breed being replaced by bounty hunters and squads of knights who do it for better money than witchers. Probably more monsters are killed by non-mutants than mutants at this point.
Bounty hunters and mercenaries - the only two arch types that got me into the Star Wars universe. Jedi and Sith are juvenile mystic sci fi wizards, absolutely no interest.
The "local hero" thing for some reason makes me think of the Swedish Empire's allotment system, where each village would have to choose one individual to serve as a soldier, with the rest of the village supplying him food, clothes, and a home. When there wasn't a war, the soldier would work as a farmer, but he was required to attend drills and maintain a level of military readiness - rather like a modern reservist. So I can see a system where each village would pool its resources to buy armor and weapons for one guy whose main job would be to kill any roving monsters who threatened the village.
My great grandpa was the last person to hold that position in Täby. He even appears in a documentary from the late 50s doing a drill and saber routine.
@@KairuHakubi I’m sure that was the moral consensus of the nobles hip to the universal divinity of the soul. However, they are almost always outnumbered by aristocratic, philosopher-types; always in a hurry to create industry!
A trick I saw use often in dnd was for the adventurers to get hired as security for caravans to make money and travel safely. They would also hunt criminals and monsters for rewards. So, from my point of view adventurers always have been mercenaries and bounty hunters.
Yeah, but usually, they have a guild or organization behind them that guarantees their character and skill. They are not the "cutthroat war-mercenaries" that usually exist alongside adventurers in many stories. The kind of guys a merchant would not want as guards, because the possibility of them turning bandits in the middle of the road is too high.
@@4Curses that would depend on how advanced the area or city is. If you are from a small town and taking the weekly farm goods to the big market in the large city you would hire the local "adventuring" group that tends to enjoy riding/fighting/exploring. It would be the way to get the characters from their 0-3 or even up to 5 to the big city to first learn from the guild or find a patron for their lessons and further exploration.
I feel like Mercenaries being historically disreputable is tied to the fact that they were hired to fight other people. I think that in a fantasy world, mercenaries whose job is slaying monsters exclusively could be slightly less blood-thirsty or cutthroat.
In addition, if you go evil in such a world... well, you better hope your leader is REALLY good tactician and leader, because at some point a force of good, or adjacent force of chaos is coming after you, and your day is gonna suck if you're following someone quite dim.
There was a story I heard of a modern ex military mercenary being an adventurer during hurricane Katrina in the USA black water dudes , which black water = ex military special forces at least from what I think I know of the company that’s what allot of them where. Anyway black water got hired by some rich dude to go get the rich dudes daughter that was trapped in her house from the flood so they loaded up a plane with boats and 4 wheelers flew as close as they could get on some abandoned runway that was only halfway usable part of it was broken or had crashed junk on it or was flooded can’t remember and got her and her family. Right this was a time when you had roving bands of thugs and gangsters looting rapeing etc you had corrupt cops and government people looting and steeling (that’s some real life monsters if you ask me) and these bad a$$ ex military dudes where hired by the “laird” to rescue the “princess” that married the “prince” a couple kingdoms over. And our daring adventures being ex military gear up in arms and armor to go rescue the princess prepared to fight the monsters that got in their way and out adventurers being ex military tan the operation like a military one leaving men behind to secure their exfiltration keeping their PACE plan set up etc if there ever was a modern adventurer it would be special forces. And adventurers would I believe live by the motto… life is a special operation that’s why adventurers are geared just like modern special forces they are geared to deal with the problems that come about
@@hammer1134 It's definitely the case that the private sector will always outperform government. Even after Katrina, where a lot of changes got made to government response to major disasters (I was involved in some of the results of that, as a first responder once upon a time), governments routinely get overwhelmed by hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico. I wouldn't be surprised in various mercenary groups are routinely hired by wealthy people to secure people and property in the wake of such disasters. But there's also a lot of ex-military and other interested volunteers who head to those areas with private boats to go rescue people, deliver supplies, and the like, where government is failing to do so in a timely fashion. And it's pretty common for large beverage corporations to convert over factories for a time to produce canned and bottled water instead of beers and sodas, to donate to areas that need it. For a fantasy setting, it's a pretty interesting idea for the heroic adventurers to get hired by somebody with the means to pay to go rescue loved ones after natural disasters. Perhaps in doing so they'll discover that great big storm wasn't so natural after all, and there's some evil wizard behind it or something, which could lead to a larger campaign. Maybe there's a series of other natural disasters in quick succession, an earthquake, a volcanic eruption, a tsunami, and the party specializes in that sort of thing.
But to do that you've got to be able to afford it; swords, armor, and food supplies aren't free nor cheap. That's why, in D&D, if you really want your players to help for free, a situation has to concern them or their interests. And frankly, there's nothing wrong with being selfish; we've all got to live and ensure we can do so tomorrow, all the while there's no telling what bad thing the person requesting help has done to deserve his fate...
In a game/fantasy setting its easy choice as no real consequence aside time lost (if u view it as such, depending on game too), however if it were real your life is on the line and if you gotta defend from 5 bandits or a dragon or w/e risking your life constantly for no reward dont think it will go well for long, even if you recieve a good moral reward, you need monetary value to pay for your used resources.
"adventurers" or "mercenaries" make sense if the government is not strong and can't control much on its own, similar to the Condottieri mercenaries in Italian peninsula and the constant skirimisking between small city-states. If the kingdom is big or becomes a relatively serious empire it has to have strong enough local lords to deal with most of the garbage and monsters on its own, leaving "adventurers" to do the very low-level stuff, like working as private investigators or private security, which is still plenty enough for a RPG game to be fair. I've always found it silly that everyone needs to hire random murder hobos to get ANYTHING done in a settlement even if it's an obvious threat to their life. How does that society not implode
Guilds. That makes more sense. Why hire some unknown adventurer with no guarantees of success when you can get a guild to fix the problem for you? No more dubious nobodies with a sword on their back. You pay up, call the guild, and they will deploy a trained professional to handle than manticore.
@@SergioLeonardoCornejo Sure but what's stopping the guild from taking over after a decade or two? Knightly orders did they over places if there was no one to stop them
@@mariusdragoe2888 it would depend on how they operate. Some may have competition, orhers could be decentralized, and a few could even get so corrupted they would collude with the government and become the de facto military police of the region.
@@mariusdragoe2888 Fun, that's pretty much what's happening in my campaign. One adventurer was so successful, she believes she's better equipped to rule than the Kingdoms of the world. Now the adventurers' guild is aiding in stopping her.
The most funny example to me is Neverwinter Nights 1. The city is under a deadly situation and what does the government chooses to do? Literally sit on their asses and wait for an adventure to eventually come along and solve their problem. Seriously, watch the narrated intro to NVW, its hilarious.
While not exactly medieval in time, I am surprised you didn't talk about the "coureur des bois" (woodrunner), a North American concept from early years of colonization. They travelled the land and were basically traders between the Europeans and the various nations in North America. They'd bring goods from the European colonies to the nations, and these would let them hunt for fur and even given them fur to bring back to the colonies. They doubled as explorers and translators in many situations. While the "monsters" might make the hunts more challenging, I believe it could be a possibility in any fantasy world.
This is a great idea but requires a sort of a frontier, which not all settings are able to provide. Some like Golarion or the Forgotten Realms are generally too explored and crisscrossed for new inter-societal relations to spawn out of the thin air. P.S. Though if we speak about it, I just can’t help but mention: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia
@@DoofExMachina In this case, there is quite an interesting thread, because these conquerors of Siberia were actually (initially) outlawed. This is also a reason to go into wild, unknown terrain.
Honestly, one of my favorite sorts of 'adventurers' are the romanticized wandering knights like you see in Arthurian style tales (modern or not)- the chivalrous and gallant knight questing the land in search of wrongs to right. Don't get me wrong though, I still love me some murderhobos, but the wandering hero is classic for a very good reason.
In Pendragon you get the historically accurate non-historical knightly adventure, out of Mort d'Arthur. You are all part of the feudal hierarchy, you know which baron killed your grandfather in a battle and which baron you serve under. You have one adventure per year, campaigns are generational.
There’s too many murderhobo and not enough knights in shining armor stories these days. I’m tired of reading about psychopathic assholes or just assholes or skummy doughe bags. Gimme a noble trying his best to actually live up to the ideal of noblesse oblige, the warrior that doesn’t just kill whoever pisses him off, and for gods sake, a guy who can keep it in his pants until after marriage. Or at least a guy who’s not insulting people just because!
I think a group like Beowulf's who were hired to remove Grendal would also kind of count in this. A group off to try and do saga worthy deeds. Similar to the questing knight in shinig armour concept in I think the most relevant ways.
@@ostrowulf i would even say that the lone wandering knight is rather rare compared to the heroe and a group of friends and companions going on a quest.
I ran a campaign where "adventurers" had a specific job: they were the postmasters. The land between the cities was dangerous, and it was cheaper to just train badass soldiers and have them carry the mail versus hiring a ton of bodyguards for random Joes.
i forgot the name but there was an occurrence like this in the "wild west" of america, there was a company or something that would hire people on horseback to deliver mail from one place to another
I feel like one aspect of adventurer got overlooked here. Knights errant were some of the archetypal adventurers who went on quests to win mainly glory and demonstrate their prowess. Think knights of the Round Table, for example. You might argue it could fit into the "rich people going exploring" slot, but I really think it's different.
Yeah, I came to the comments to make that exact point. Knights questing for Glory or just desire to test themselves and improve, or due to their code of chivalry. King Arthur Pendragon game does this really well.
@@CosmicFreedoms Jup, both Ronin and Black Knights/Hedge Knights are the real life examples. In both cases they were basically disgraced or empoverished nobles so they had to live off the land/by robbery.
For my setting, "adventurer" is a catch all term. The general consensus of the peoples of this setting is; "You hire traveling Slayers for monsters that you wouldn't risk the local champion for, you hire explorers to find relics and rarities, you hire caravaneers for getting from one place to another and not risk dying to monsters.. and you hire mercenaries to deal with men."
best way to add the idea of "an adventurer" would be to add long dead advanced civilizations who would have hoarded Gold. (or non-advanced civilization) They key is the finding treasure relies on having civilizations who have fallen and not taking their goods with them. Also having monsters be related either as the cause or the by-product of the end of that civilization guarding the ruins is required to have a reason for the ruins not being looted. Also a big problem of how monsters would exist in a world that also has civilization? its silly to think that every day farmers would constantly be fighting monsters- most likely would be that monsters inhabit areas that are not suitable for normal human habitation. Also areas that are infested with monsters would be devoid of civilization in general.
In my setting "adventurer" is sort of a derogatory term to call an adult; basically if someone calls you that it's an underhanded way of calling you a manchild who can't find a real job at best, and a creepy drifter doing shady work for money at worst. Most REAL adventurers use either "travelers/traveling party" or "sell-swords/spells" because they're not trying to come off as deluded so as not to push away potential job prospects.
How can you be a caravaneer if there is no such thing, caravanner on the other hand just implies that you’re with the caravan, you can hire mercenaries to protect your caravan.
7:01: "A really fun, classic and well-known book series that actually is framed much around classic fantasy tropes is Dragonlance." Back when those were written, they weren't framed around classic fantasy tropes. They invented a surprising amount of the stuff we consider "classic tropes" today.
Shad: you ever heard of the "stationary bandit" theory for the initial creation of states? It curiously aligns with your telling of mercenaries growing too big and taking entire cities hostages to give them cash. It goes like this: there is a village. There are various groups of bandits. They usually just raid (kill the cattle), but one group decides it would be easier to ride in town, offer to defend them from the other bandit groups, and get paid smaller amounts over a greater period of time (keeping the cattle for its produce). Btw, tell this one to Oz. He will love a story about how the state (not talking voluntary governance here) are just a bunch of thieves with the monopoly of use of force.
@Apsoy Pike What are you talking about pre bronze age collapse? This is looong after the bronze age. Centuries after the fall of the Roman Empire. And medieval Europe was basically 99% Catholic. And those who weren't Catholic were probably not all that open about it.
@N Fels I don't think that saying the Catholicism exterminated everybody else is accurate. There were forced conversions, but that is different from extermination. I am also not sure what a female merchant has to do with anything.
@Apsoy Pike The god king is a good long step above the bandit. The word bandit here would represent lawlessness, the disrespect of sedentary practicality, the peasantry's and merchant's submission - to bandits. A part of humanity is strong, viscious and dominant (aristocracy). Another is peaceful, cowardly and productive (peasantry). The god kings' inclination is, among other things, to secure the stability and longevity of the realm. This is feudalism.
@Apsoy Pike You can define it that way - but a caste society with priest/warrior/peasant castes, like Indus, Egypt, etc., is way over at the feudal side as compared with our modern systems. Some of these societies had vast pantheons. In Roman society, each house had its own god / lar. Monotheism was a later state building tool. Medieval Europe was formally monotheist, yet littered with local saints and custom songs and myth, and on top of that, a bunch of folk lore. True monotheism is a modern invention...
@Apsoy Pike We should probably view feudalism as a historical phenomena, a pattern that arises out of practicality and human and economic realities. If you "define" feudalism arbitrarily, you can "prove" anything, but that would be pseudo science. The central pattern is historically undeniable, caste (not class) societies consisting of priesthood/warriors/peasants, where political rather than economic power reigns supreme. Theology is less important in societies without loudspeakers on every street corner, where encounters with the supernatural are commonplace. Medieval European religion was is a synchretistic catholitism with ancient greek and kabalistic symbolism, but very alive with religious experience. Religion as "belief" is a modern idea - most of history, the supernatural was simply experienced. As documented by folk tales everywhere. When bandits settle in, they will be expected by the local populace to play the role of local lord. Following the divine customs! Or another more worthy (more noble) will kick them out, and do.
To have a "realistic" setting for adventurers, you need a world, where there is no strong central government; or areas outside of the control of such governments. You also need an older civilization, with treasure worth obtaining, and dangers that prevent the average person from just walking in and taking those treasures. You mentioned Rome, but the early Dark Ages is actually a time when adventurers could exist. During the devastation of the 30 years war and the various mercenary bands might quality. Also, the Spanish and Portuguese conquests in Central and South America are almost classic examples of small bands of men, far removed from central government authority, facing dangers for treasure. Let's face it, the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings created the entire genre as we know it today. Earlier fantasy (such as Howard's Conan series) was almost always about the adventures of an individual rather than a party, but the whole "ancient" civilization bit was there.
The Symbaroum RPG has a setting where I really like how they worked in how adventurers work. Essentially, the "classic medieval fantasy empire" was recently resettled after losing a war against the big evil, and have colonized an area next to an immense ancient forest (about the size of the British Isles) which covers the ruins of an ancient civilization. So a lot of unexplored land, a lot of opportunity to get rich, upheaved social structures, a lot of grizzled veterans, and even some regulation (all adventurers are subject to essentially a tax, and it's part of the game mechanics to work out how you're gonna pay that tax).
You're absolutely right. Conquistadors and the New World is indeed a great example. Just a dangerous location with riches that's hard to navigate for large groups, is all that you need, government be damned.
You don't need a weak government in order for adventurers to be a thing all you need is an ebbing and flowing monster problem that you can't predict. What's more cost efficient hiring enough soldiers and training them all to be both experts at fighting humans as well as dozens of very different types of monsters. Or to simply contract the services of people that specialize in killing monsters on a as needed basis? And what would make doing so as easy as possible? A guild?
basicly early medieval nobles were pretty much adventurers, but their adventures were more akin to war, basicly viking raids or Frankish excursions etc.
@@atk9989 when it comes to application of violence states will default to legally bound soldiers in nearly all instances. A monster slaying guild with a contract based system would be seen as a threat to government authority because it would be a group of armed and proficient warriors independent of the state and would be capable of fighting a guerilla campaign the likes of which would make the Vietnam War look like a picnic in Central Park.
On the idea that adventuring in the form of expeditions and safaris as being the domain of the rich, something I feel Shad overlooked is that those rich aristocrats on expedition/safari were almost always accompanied by a whole bunch of people who served as guides, protection and/or general support; most of whom would comprise of commoners (i.e. poor people). Also, the overall likelihood of adventurers being a viable, standard career path would be inversely proportional to political stability and the strength of the central authority. If the socio-political landscape is volatile, the likelier people will want to hire travelling warriors for protection or to complete tasks on their behalf. Similarly, if there is a strong central authority, people are likelier to turn to them instead of independent travellers to deal with their problems; including the odd monster roaming through the countryside.
That's really a neglected angle. For a historical example: In the early Age of Discovery, after the Spanish made landfall in America and established the first footholds, there were plenty of people, from Spaniards and Portuguese, to even Germans, French and Scots, that burned their life savings to venture into the unknown and either claim new land, find great riches, like El Dorado, or seek new travel routes. Basically, if you want an easy excuse for Adventurers (in the Fantasy sense), having a nation that is heavily involved in far-flung trade is the most reasonable way to do it, since journeying into unknown lands, meeting foreign people, taking care of threats to trade routes (bandits, goblins and monsters), following rumors of hidden treasures and ruins, or hunting exotic beasts, all wouldn't be much of a stretch for them to do.
Yesn't There's points that some rather well written fantasy manga address, and that's that in the outer skirts of a Kingdom's territory where the tactical worth is zero, you find a lot of the time that the "Church" or the Central Kingdom doesn't send out expeditions to wipe out say a band of Goblins, or Orcs or a pack of monsters/wolves busy making life hard for the people in that region because its expensive to move an army, even if its just a small regiment of 50 soldiers, its really expensive. Its much cheaper to move 20 adventurers that basically sponsor their own equipment, armour and potions, meaning they're not expensive to hire and get moving. There's no logistical issues, nor political and bureaucratic red tape to move through as well to move any part of your army, so the response from the central powers is usually then very slow. What about the town watch stationed there? You can't move them either because then your village/town is left unprotected from raiding bandits as well as from crime inside the town too while they might be on an extermination expedition for a week. So its not so easy to get a government to move, the stronger that government's influence, the worse it is to get them to move soldiers to kill monsters in a non-important region of the kingdom, unless say its a Dragon/Demon General where the reward for killing a Dragon/Demon General outweighs the cost of moving the army to do it.
As opposed to an absolute monarch (typical late medieval government) a feudal society (typical early medieval government) has decentralized authority. Local lords were rich compared to the farmers they ruled but had nothing close to resources of an absolute monarch or a modern government. A local lord might be unwilling to ask a king who is also a rival for help, yet be unable or unwilling to put band of elite monster hunters on permanent retainer. Why unwilling? Maybe he'd rather spend the money on fortifications or feasting. Or maybe he's afraid they would get bored and become a threat. So instead he hires mercenaries when needed then sends them away when the job is done.
@@Dennis-vh8tz actually at no point in medieval times was absolut kingship a thing that happened after the end of the medival era and all the Nobles were warriors and they lived for glory and even hunted dangerous animals as a sport trust me they would kill to get to hunt monsters
I mean if magic can be used as a weapon in the setting then there's no reason to assume that some mages or wizards wouldn't also be mercenaries or that there could be entire mercenary groups specializing in magic
@@samuelsmith2707 same reason there were Combat Engineers, Tinkerers, Blacksmiths, artists, etc. there is a steady income in it and they don't want to become a farmer. 80% of the jobs in Medieval world was related to agriculture... which the smart and clever get bored with real quick.
I had an idea for a group of witchblades that used magic with regular combat, and act more or less like mercenaries until the whole group was given a position in the local army
I think you overlooked some of the most common themes in fantasy worlds, the market surrounding monster parts and rare resources. It comes up all over the place from more classic fantasy like dnd all the way to harry potter. For example the wands in Harry Potter require monster parts and depending on the quality\type of monster parts dictates the wands effectiveness and compatibly with its user. Not to mention the unbelievable demand things like potions, spell/enchanting components, and better amour/weapons would create for monster parts in a world without our modern scientific understating of medicine and manufacturing. So the wealthy aristocratic adventurer, local hero, mercenary, knight/monster hunting orders, or hired guards you spoke about would probably still want to invest in quality gear and potions which in most of fantasy require monster parts to make. There is also the whole nobility paying out of the nose for rare things, health/beauty items, and a chance at immortality. Like even in our reality where magic doesn't exist, all throughout history and even in the modern day wealthy people believe and invest in alchemy, spiritualism, voodoo, and magic for a chance at increasing their lifespans/power/influence. Then there is also the role of information broker/researcher that would pay really well for information about; local monster populations, monster movements, the locations of rare materials, and the locations of historic/powerful items. This would naturally create a demand for people to go and gather this kind of information and in fantasy this role traditionally falls to adventures. You kind of touch on this with the wealthy adventure, but there has always been a subset of the population who would risk everything for glory and notoriety. For example you have gladiators, knights, and nobility who would regularly risk their lives in duels, hunts and competitions to prove the martial prowess. So I think that there would be a not unsubstantial portion of adventures whose motivation would be to prove their strength or seeking notoriety for their deeds. Lastly there is the lower class/impoverished seeking to improve their lives. Because as long as there is no law or regulations preventing low born/non-citizens/uneducated people from becoming adventurers then adventuring would be a likely choice for orphans, refugees, and unskilled laborers.
In the AD&D 1e DMG it's heavily encouraged that adventurers be from the middle class. No aristocratic obligations of the upper class, no poor education and responsibilities of being low class.
I feel like lessons can be taken from all of these ideas. One idea I want to note that Shad didn't really cover here though is the idea of the Monastic-Military Order, your Order of the Flaming Rose from the Witcher, or Templars if we are to take a more historical example. This kind of pseudo-centralized military organization with ties to (and funding from the tithes of) the church, that go around town to town where Priests report monsters to bravely fight off the invaders while singing the praises of their god to the grateful peasants. And this again can become a corrupt thing, towns with no church, or very cynical populations, are left bereft of defences against monsters, while towns with really prominent cathedrals are virtually impervious, and the surround local area is safer, encouraging trade, making them trade hubs, and thus hubs of civilization. You could see tremendous church control of politics, and populations centred on cities of religious importance.
A fantasy adventurer could work like a “tinker” “ragman” or similar. These are trades that traveled from town to town collecting junk and repairing items. They had to travel because there wasn’t constant business in one area to support them. They ran a circuit to frequent places on a sort of a schedule.
That's the Artificer class right there especially if they have smithing, woodcarving, or leatherworking tools upon their tinkering set and thieving tools.
most apprentice craftsmen had to leave their homes after their apprenticeship and became journeymen. They had to travel and work for a few years to train their craft in many different places. A few crafts kept that system to this day in Germany, you can still encounter journeyman carpenters walking from building site to building site offering their services to the company building roofs and other woodwork (Germany builds mainly in concrete and brickwork, but the roofs are wood constructions with ceramic tiles on top; but there are cases of half timber buildings being built to fit in with the old neighborhood)
These are the types of guys that would know the escort times and such and would most probably travel with the larger caravans that would be going further to get to their destination when possible. They would also tend to either be good at talking their way out of trouble or using what they have to defend or conceal themselves when they are forced to travel alone.
This would work very well for monster hunters and the like, since if they do their job right, there won't be any more work in that area for a while. I could even see people whose job is just to walk the roads alone or in small groups, presenting a tempting target for bandits and monsters, then kill them. They wouldn't get all of them, but they'd thin the numbers, and the ones that remain would be too scared to attack travelers. No need for big, inconvenient caravans when every traveler might be a one-man-army in disguise. And if you want to justify women being powerful warriors in a world like ours where they are generally weaker then men, here's an easy solution: they also generally make better bait for human monsters.
Best way to look at it is that "adventurer" is not really a job, just a description. Most adventurers even in DnD are treasure hunters, mercenaries, crusaders, bodyguards, thieves and so on. Whole DnD campaigns and novels can go by without the word "adventurer" ever being said.
"just another job" The difference is most would stop after a few big jobs and retire. Likely many do, and those that don't likely get killed.. probably why there are so few. But just as there are billionaires what keep working, some adventurers keep "adventuring". If you can determine what drives your adventurer, you'll be that more realistic.
@@Unsensitive Or maybe putting an end to the adventures is not an option, as in Dark Souls for example. Keep fighting or turn into a braindead monster, basically, but that is a very specific scenario of course.
@@Askorti i know what you referring to and imo, thats super dumb. Its **very** videogamey, its something that usually happens in isekais when the protagonist can literally open a level menu 🤮
@@agrippa2012 Agreed. I think some kind of organization or place where people can just put up miscellaneous job descriptions isn't necessarily unrealistic, but the ranking system and guild status just makes it way too videogamey
So as far as the "adventure seeking" goes, the Norse who went "viking" would be a very good historical analogy. They would leave for a while to trade, sail, fish, hunt, raid, sell their services as mercenaries, travel the world. There would also be the Knight Errant, who travels with their retinue in search of challenge. A knight, their priest, arcane advisor, skilled servant, maybe a herald. Sounds rather like a classic adventuring party to me.
Interesting fetishised, fantasy image you're offering up there.... Nice job of ignoring all of the horrendous, parasitic crime as well. Its all romance really, when you think about it, isn't it? Stick a thousand years between us and them and it's all cool
I highly recommend "He who fights with monsters" in that regard. The series features a surprisingly sophisticated and (IMO) consistent world, that explores how the adventurer and monster tropes (among others) would affect societies on a fundamental level. It finds a lot of interesting answers to the usual inconsistencies of high-fantasy worlds. It features a lot of the stuff you mention in the video and takes quite a few of those tropes even further. Experienced adventurers are basically demi-gods that rule entire countries because nobody could stop them. Pretty much anyone who gets to that stage trains up their own family to obtain powers themselves which is exactly how aristocracy works in that world. Adventurer clans spend a lot of time rying to one-up another in local politics while a bunch of official societies attempt to motivate them to actually do their job and keep the countryside safe from monster threats (most of them are too lazy to travel and do dangerous work). The low end of society tries to get members into adventuring because it usually guarantees their rise in society. That's more wishful thinking though because the nobility is very much in control of magic and training resources. Inequality in that scenario is very much off the charts and in a very believable way. Most low-level adventurers were pushed into that job by their families and eventually stop hunting monsters because it's quite traumatizing and dangerous. Those people often end up as guards of the nobility or thugs in criminal organizations. Neither pays particularly well of course.
I have always thought that one of the best real life examples of adventurers are the so called Spanish conquistadors. These were privateers from all social classes, who ventured into uncharted land in search of fame and riches, after rumors of fantastic cities and civilizations. But not only they went after gold: sometimes they went after things like the fountain of eternal youth, or just on a quest of discovery. These guys were the result of a fashion of the time: the errant knight books and novels that were very popular in Spain back then. And although nowadays they are often vilified under our modern moral lense, they accomplished amazing feats under extremely difficult circumstances.
Imagine a D&D campaign where you adventure in a continent of savage Goblins, then find out they're just as sentient and deserving of life as you... but you gave them all Smallpox.
I think a great thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the conquistadors is that they had massive staffs, and the leaders were driven by zeal and their great decisions often boiled down to being the survivors after throwing things at the wall. Adventurers are more likely to be the staff than the conquistador, and since our parties are usually heroes, they'd probably end up more like the star duo of Road to El Dorado than Orellana or Cortez.
They're also a great deconstruction of the sort of looting adventurers do, as one consequence of their actions that isn't often brought up is that they actually took _so_ much gold from the Americas that they crashed Spain's economy.
I've always thought adventurers as minor celebrities (like streamers) would be a funny angle in a sort of tongue-in-cheek manner. There would be a lot of investment in Bard's tales and whatnot, and the plucky adventurers would have to overcome the dual issue of not being a recognisable household name and low-level monsters being swarmed by every would-be upstart band of adventurers.
"Look, kid," the Dour Bard said. "I've seen countless bright-eyed youngsters and aging has-beens like you wanting to etch your names into history, be the names on everyone's lips, the heroes of the songs bards like me will be playing in taverns and village squares the world over to crowds eager to heart them be played. "I've also seen countless hordes of them die trying, give up and go back to their lives, or just become the guys you go to when you've got a goblin problem and your local lord can't be arsed to send their men to do it. "You want to know why it seems that the time of the Mage of Eternal Spring, The Radiant Princess Knight, and The Hand of God seemed to just be bursting at the seams with all these proud, popular, and beloved adventurers? "Because it's been decades since and we've forgotten about all the _other_ adventurers that tried, died, or faded in the background. "You're not special. You may never be special. Chances are, you're just going to be a normal, average person who's going to live a normal, average life. "But the question here is: are you going to keep on working and trying your luck? "Because once upon a time, those legends were just normal, forgettable saps like you, till one day, they weren't."
@@SergioLeonardoCornejo I've always enjoyed the villainous potential of a Hero that seeks name recognition above all, to the point of hiring a PR team, forcing countless imperiled people to spread word or else, and ruthlessly hunting down detractors.
Interesting video Shad, as usual. I always wonder how the economy of some fantasy worlds works, and if some monsters might become endangered species and then protected!
It's really hard to imagine that fish and shells were poor man's food once... The biggest catastrophic events for wildlife were AFAIK, the bronze age, the renaissance, and the industrial revolution. For instance, Basel is said to have lost 90% of the fish population and the majority of species in only a few decades. On the other hand, already in the 16th century, the role of Forester appeared. They imported game from the mediterranean and planted trees even in north Germany in order for nobles to be able to hunt again...
I've always wonder this too. In every campaign I've gone in adventurers would get really rich and just spend a exorbitant amounts in small villages. In reality I could see this creating a Mansa Musa effect. I could see nobles and monarchs either trying to enlist these heroes just for economical gains or maybe even hunt them down. As for the endangered monster act I see historically people didn't really pay attention to them until they were gone. Wooly mammoths, African forest elephant, and many European wolf species for example were pretty much exterminated rather unceremoniously. Not to say you couldn't have a group of druids and or rangers going out of their way to protect them. Or maybe even create farming attempt especially if they have value to them.
@@edi9892 I still find it hard to believe Lobsters used to be prisoner/slave/servant food. Servants used to be fed such a heavy amount of them that it started to appear in contracts how many times they could be fed it.
@@RoseKindred speaking of prawns, lobster, etc. I find it hilarious how disgusted people are of the concept of eating insects to the point that some states outright banned it, when lobsters are clearly maritime insects...
Personally, I feel that having a guild of adventurers, particularly a guild that is willing to hire outsiders passing through, still makes a lot of sense. You need to have people go out and deal with larger threats further away from the city or village, and it's preferable to do so before the city or village is being directly threatened. You're right in that a certain majority of the adventurers would be a bit more cutthroat and less honorable, but with the backing of a guild that promises a reward equal to the danger and difficulty of the quest, there's little chance of such people becoming quite so dangerous to ordinary folk, especially given that they would need to keep at least a somewhat good reputation with the locals if they want to *stay* in the guild.
Not only that, but the guild would mostly be hiring either individual or small groups of mercenaries. Such groups would lack the power and numbers to cause any kind of real damage if they went rogue. I doubt they'd be hired in massive groups unless there was a full-scale war/battle happening. And even then, the town wouke just request troops from neighbouring towns and cities. If the guild is situated in a rather populated area with solid trade routes, support is even more likely to come
The thing is, why would there be a guild doing these functions, instead of a state authority? The closest historical analogue to what you describe would be state sponsored expeditions. This niche would be first filled by the state because of their existing systems of revenue (they can pay with taxes from an entire area threatened by the monster instead of a single village), intel (nation-wide talent pool, preexisting literate administration staff), and they even have incentives (a monster such as you describe would pose a threat to more than just one village). So instead of seeing adventure guilds pop up, you'll just see the state step in to fill that role.
@@lekhakaananta5864 I would imagine that the local guilds are either sponsored or created by a central government, whenever one is present, but left to run their own operations so long as things are kept under control. Ruling a nation would be difficult enough without the added difficulty of controlling an organized group of adventurers and constantly supplying them with new quests. So, while in essence acting of its own accord, the guild would in fact very likely be a state administration anyway.
It really does depend on the context. Local heroes and town guards and stuff make sense as being common, I would say that the reason the stories tend to follow the traveling adventuring group is because they are usually going to make for a more engaging story than the local champion who faces monsters that he's used to fighting. The idea of a traveling adventurer inherently needs some sort of motivation specifically for those reasons outlined - people would tend to prefer to stick close to home, so they must have some strong reason if they are set to risk their life traveling to unknown lands. Or maybe they're a bard who just is traveling to get good profits from places that haven't heard his stories before. Or a Chaotic aligned person who simply likes the freedom. Not to say you couldn't make a great story based in a small village where the biggest threats are goblins, just that it would be a different scale than the high fantasy that you expect. It would need to be more heavily focused on character relationships with the locals and stuff. Storytelling is also why I would expect to see them as more of the "ragtag bunch of misfits" than the shifty mercenary. The reason why the party we follow tend to be more righteous is because that's what people want to experience more than a morally dubious group - though we do still see those types of stories.
One of my favorite ways to contextualize the stereotypical fantasy adventurer, which I used in my own D&D world, was contextualizing them as couriers or long-distance messengers. Specifically, the world I made had a period only a few centuries prior where monster populations were SO widespread and dangerous that inter-city trade and communication ground to a halt. And during this period, some individuals dedicated themselves to traveling across the monster-infested countryside to carry letters and/or cargo from one city or town to another, without dying along the way. And those people, while technically mercenaries, became became more recognized as couriers for hire. As time passed and their role became more integral to socioeconomics, they centralized into a guild (the Courier's Society), with local lodges and administrative/support staff and an entire internal economy. Despite the wilderness being a fair bit safer than it used to be, they're still around as something of a holdover, having since expanded their business into slaying REALLY dangerous monsters, guarding archeologists, collecting rare materials, or even fighting in wars (though they're hardly cheap, so only nobles or really-important merchants can afford to use their services). What started as a badass postal service, has since changed into a mercenary guild with international respect and clout. tl;dr: In my experience, it really doesn't take much to bring the fantasy adventurer into a realistic setting. All you have to do is insert a monetary reason to fight and travel. Where there's profit to be gained, SOMEONE will go chasing it. ^^
I've seen some fantasy treat adventures as a type of Jack-of-all-trades freelancer. They might do a lot of monster slaying and dungeon exploration, but they are not above doing odd-jobs, like helping out on a farm, lending their crafting skills, or training the local militia. Of course, this brings up the possibilities of adventures more specialized in specific fields, adventures that have become so successful that they no longer accept low paying odd-jobs, or adventures who only take odd-jobs as they themselves are not talented for combat.
Adventurer is a vague generalized thing kinda like scientist but both can come in a variety of types with different roles, talents, specializations and having more specific titles that they use that better identify their specific talents and specializations
yeah, like if dragons are real and hard to defeat, then specialists should focus only on that. Don't send a Dragon Slayer on an escort-through-bandit-territory quest. It's a waste of his skill set and needlessly risks his life.
One thing about going on adventures is that in most settings, it is by far the fastest way to gain power. In most games, a wizard killing monsters for a few months will gain more power and spells than a wizard who spends a decade studying in a tower. This is mostly for game design purposes, but I think the risk/reward system of deadly fights equalling more gains has cool implications to world-building.
Tbf that largely comes down to setting. For example: in my setting it isnt the whole slaying monsters thing that makes you gain power faster. Its not like every wizard could go out and learn things that way. Pcs are special. Theyre a special mix of talent, daring and...various other things. In short, theyre able to quickly learn their trade becuase they themselves are kind of a perfect mixture of all the different things that adventurers aspire to. There are npc adventurers that the pcs might meet, ones that might even have years of successful monster hunting, and yet almost none of them are going to be higher than level 5 (or its equivalent cr)
Just make sure you put in the right metaphysics. Many people would be uncomfortable with adventurers who get stronger by eating the souls of monsters, but adventurers who take slain beings' mana are a lot more socially acceptable (and also have an easier time dividing the spoils).
I feel like adventurers are the fighter for the need where a royal knight or army is a bit to much or those are needed elsewhere. I really like the guild system because of this it just makes sense for it to be made a big job.
Plus adding to the state / region into the guild influence making each guild branks different from one these other. Having different rules base off the location you find the guild and what rules that the location government can't restrict the party or uses on the guild. How much percentage does the guild take out of your pay and split it with the government. I would see the guild job as a request that would be send you by the people or government. Guild council leader have influence over things. Like the guild's head council leader of magic, alchemy, mercenary, historian / scholar, hunter, merchant, government and so on. Each guild counsel leader are specialized and influence the adventure guild from being out of control for each kingdom.
Sherlock Holmes had a case where a nobleman went into a bar and vanished. Examining evidence he was suspected murdered by a beggar there but the police also suspected the barkeeper and his assistants being involved. Holmes suggested rather than arresting more people without evidence he would go in undercover to find more info. This is the kind of situation where non-professionals and adventurers can be useful...
A few good shows that I feel do a good job of representing how adventurers would influence daily life are Danmachi, Grimgar, Goblin Slayer, and (early) Fairy Tale. All three of these shows have guild based adventurers, and I feel do a good job of showing how a society that has a well established caste of adventurers would affect the daily life and economy of their world. Fairy Tale and Danmachi do a good job of showing how an economy would be structured around people who do this sort of thing with quest boards and shops for magic items, and Grimgar and Goblin Slayer do a wonderful job of showing how dangerous the life of an adventurer is.
Pretty much, just they aren't as cut throat and horrible people because there isn't any betrayal for more money. There will be that type but there will also be plenty of honest people or glory seekers looking to kill the strongest monsters.
@@atk9989 In some RPG computer games (like Arcanum) it's basically for you to decide if you are going, to be honest, or extort money and kill innocent people.
Funny enough, the Lost Mine of Phandelver mini-adventure that comes with the D&D starter kit does a great job of giving a historically viable explanation for the party being adventurers. At the start of the module, the part are NOT adventurers yet, but merely hired hands to assist with an archaeological discovery being partly funded by a wealthy knight.
I've never played any official modules, but it makes sense that this would be the very first adventure that new players are supposed to be introduced to DnD with. Perfect for explaining why your characters are actually adventurers.
Funny enough, I had done something similar to the local mercenary group in my world called “Hunters” and it is quite similar to what you said. Most of them are shady people that kill the monsters/protect the villages or towns around their base of operations. The thing is, why would you pay someone for services they haven’t provided? So they have to hunt first, then they get paid. And even if they can try to extort extra money, remember, there are other people as strong or stronger than them, so they have to be careful not to over extend or maybe the local government will send the army or even better, another group of Hunters after them.
I think one area where the idea of an adventurer's guild in the way it crops up in a lot of fantasy anime is a relatively realistic way to accomplish a few tasks: 1) It could help to cut down on the potential corruption of powerful adventuring parties by having a centralized organization that oversees their activities and makes them answerable to an authority. Such a guild might also ensure that the ones that have the better interest of society in mind are the ones that rise to power and fame by giving them missions and resources that allow them to steadily build power, meanwhile if someone shows early signs of having a problematic personality, they might be given a mission that puts them in over their heads, or alternatively be denied access to missions that might enable them to accrue more power. 2) It would raise the survivability of the profession, as in a world with hundreds of different kinds of dangerous monsters, if you don't find some way to share information about specific powers like a poison breath or fire claws and specific weaknesses, like a troll's regeneration slows down if you burn them or undead seem to be harmed by holy powers, then more adventurers will die because they don't know what they are walking into, even if there was another adventurer they might have crossed paths with who might have been able to tell them this stuff. Having an organization that collects information about monsters and ensures that the people sent out to fight them are sufficiently prepared makes sense, like know thy enemy and all that. 3) Having a place you can go to request help if your village is being raided by goblins or is being plagued by a manticore or whatever also makes a certain amount of sense, because if your local champion isn't up to the task, and there isn't a wandering band of mercenaries conveniently near by, being able to go to a centralized location where adventurers are known to congregate and receive missions would be incredibly useful. Additionally, if you have a particular use for monster parts, like say the poison sack of a cockatrice or the talon of a roc is a useful ingredient for a potion you want to make or something, then having an organization of professional monster hunters you can commission to go and get you some would be a very valuable connection to have as a researcher or a craftsman. 4) In a world full of supernatural pests and threats it makes sense that somebody might think to organize a group to go out and thin the population of surrounding monsters to make the area safer, in a fairly similar way that hunting boards have historically thinned out problematic species that get overpopulated in the real world. Such a guild would appeal to people from all walks of life, as a poor commoner might be willing to take some risk and get their hands dirty if it means having some extra coin in the pocket, a hero type might see this as a way to protect their loved ones and keep people safe, a religious type might see this as their holy duty, a noble might see this as a way to increase their power/wealth/influence, a merchant might see this as a way to gather skills/information/connections that they can use to conduct their trade more safely and effectively, a scholar might see this as a way to study the magics and monsters that fill the world and a place to share information to further their research. I fully believe that while not every civilization in such a world would form such an organization, but I do believe that those that do form would be successful, and then the concept would probably spread as either the organization grows to have branches in other areas, or as other areas learn of the success of this organization at making the land safer and the lives of everyone easier, they would attempt to adopt similar methods of sharing information and resources as part of a centralized organization.
What I am kind of missing in the comments is the fact that most of these have abilities. Abilities which they can not yet fully understand or use. Finding someone who is capable of teaching you or searching for this knowledge would be a fairly strong incentive. Without this knowledge they are of minor use for the village (capable of dealing with one or two monsters at once). But if they manage to be trained. They might be able to defend against minor armies. I could even imagine the village scrapping together what they can to send the hero on the long and dangerous road to the main city. And as stories usually progress it goes down from there. But the hero can't come back without the power or he and his family loses their honor... See. Simple to have an struggling but fairly pure hero in a magic world...
Even a local noble who is in charge of an area could put up the bounty. Either as part of their duties to protect the area or as a cost of do business in order to keep their lands profitable, sort of like going after bandits and other troublemakers.
Having special powers that are present danger for the person or/and everyone around them (unless trained and learned how to properly control) is also a strong incentive.
Or having patrons that support these people, but also organize studies abroad for them. I have the feeling that most of them wouldn't intentionally choose the profession but accidentally land in the profession and then think it's a lot of fun once they found their group of adventurers.
... or the only teacher to be found demands a contract of our hopeful hero! Now they find themselves following orders they may not agree with, perhaps gaining a reputation for such, when all they wanted was the strength to serve their homeland! This is fun. I love Shad's fantasy videos
another type of mission for "adventurers" would most likely be to brave into the unknown wilderness and map out locations people would be willing to pay for, like mines or springs or even well protected spots that would be good to settle a village on.
One reason I can think of for long range wanderer style adventuring, in both fantasy and non-fantasy settings, is exploring. Not solving problems per sé, though that could happen, but just general travel for contacting new peoples making maps, finding new resources etc. I can imagine a king, group of nobles, religious leader or a merchants guild funding small scale expeditions for this. Like newly accesible lands that were recently discovered, borders that opened to newcomers. Even if the lands are distsnt rather than unknown, someone needs to check up on them once in a while.
In the 1700's US, various pelts and furs were in such demand that some men would leave their farms and wander for months, hunting until they had all the pelts their animals could carry. A similar situation would provide a fine excuse to have a tough, frontier type wander into an adventure.
Adol in the Ys series is an "adventurer" who basically is an explorer. He isn't funded by anyone though; he goes out seeking adventure for the fun of it.
In my campaign world, two continents settled a third, which had no "sapient" life on it (just like, animals and dumb monsters and dinos and stuff). Each is trying to explore it before the other and thus has equal claim. I've found it avoids the indigenous morality problem. Can't help the environmentalists, though, lol.
I love how Shad, in these videos, brings up almost all possible information points about a topic and explains how it'll work in many different kinds of role playing styles and stories.
I've such fond memories of Dragonlance... might have to go back and read them again. I've always treated adventurers and mercenaries as shadier individuals in my own books. Even the nicer, more kind-hearted sort aren't above throwing their weight around to get paid for whatever deeds they accomplish. Being the golden nice guy seems like it wouldn't last long in the adventurer/mercenary environment. You'd think they'd either get stabbed in the back or die in poverty.
Yeah, but why? Don't just take for granted that the archetype makes sense. Unless the character is a moron, he will have a reason to leave the comfort of home, and a really good reason to live by the sword, which can very easily go wrong in many ways. The point is, justifying that kind of choice takes some very rare circumstances. Do you know anyone who lives like that - an independent, traveling, armed violence-doer? I don't. I know soldiers, but that's different. For "have sword, will travel" to be believable, you have to think really hard about when such a life would be worth choosing, as Shad tried to do in this video.
@@davidhoracek6758 "Unless the character is a moron, he will have a reason to leave the comfort of home, and a really good reason to live by the sword, which can very easily go wrong in many ways." So... Teens and young adults seeking glory, full of youthful exuberance, a sense of immortality, and stupidity? What about joining the military, is that rare? A good reason can help, sure, but people have done dumber things for dumber reasons. It's just easier to make those people bit characters and sidekicks.
It exemplifies the "Adventurer" spirit. It was a shallow, self-explanatory comment. I wasn't claiming to provide any remarkable form of insight lmao You've overthought it, have a drink, a smoke, a shag or even a wank. Life isn't always so serious.
Shad, there were a LOT of "expeditions" in the ancient and medival times from european kingdoms. Bussiness expeditions to asia and africa, military expeditions to turkey, middle east and later into india and america. During a longer journey, it is more advantageous to travell in a group (even by joining one already existing, like bussiness caravan pendeling between two locations). Hell, into our midleeuropean culture is baked a custom, where EVERY artisans protege, after he is proclaimed a full MASTER of the craft by his own tutoring master, oved to went out on kind of "expedition" around the surrounding countries, to 1) advertize the level of craft in our country by showing and 2) to hopefully do some of the "industrial espionage" by seeing how the craft is done abroaght. Usually he returns for a woman and family and sets a shop in the place he lived, or wants to live. And those were "midle income" people at best...
There were carpenters, masons and other tradesmen that moved from site to site, country to country to ply their trade - the distinctive marks they put on what they made have been traced all over Europe. Here you work on building a castle, when that's complete, you pick up your tools and join many of your fellow workers on the trek to a neighbouring burrough or country where you work on a cathedral, learning new styles and fashions. These people were highly sought after, highly paid and very well-travelled.
In a world where monsters exist, I feel like "Drill day" should be very common. A day of the week where whatever watch captain/local war veteran puts every able-bodied individual through basic training with whatever weapons they have (Spears, anyone?). This way, "adventurers" would only be needed for solving complex or more dangerous tasks.
Basically how real life worked in pre-industrial reality. The more organized town militias would have training days to be prepared for warfare. I think there's still value in something like that today, it might help soften some of the nastier sociopolitical divisions in modern society if everyone was shown that their neighbors are willing and able to protect each other despite their differences.
It's more like sending these adventures first so they can die no one would blame the government if they die first. And spare their loyal knights on a better job or use them when only necessary.
When i run D&D campaigns. I always do it like. The Kingdom's army/town guard keep the towns safe, and patrol the roads enough that most things avoid them (though you get the occasional wandering or bandits not scared off by patrols) But, rounding up 500 guys to go and hunt tdown every wild Wyvern that starts causing trouble just wouldn't be feasable. So bounties are put up for anyone to take a crack at. So Mercenaries and Armies keep the towns and roads safe from most things. And Adventurers are known for mopping up the few things that attack despite those, and of course for delving into ruins and things from before the armies kept the monsters away
I believe England required any freeman with a certain level of income or property to own and practice weekly with longbows. At least as far back as Henry the Eighth. If memory serves they only had to own 4-5 arrows for the practice though.
You might see the transition from "local champion/group of heroes" to "traveling adventurer registered with the guild" when looking at a fantasy city rather than a village. If we assume monsters or some other type of threat that heroes are needed for (rather than the local lord's standing army), eventually the number of them grows to a point of needing some sort of organization. If merchant caravans need specialist heroes to escort them, that's plenty of reason for a hero to adventure from place to place, and there could also be a situation where the more experienced adventurers travel to the wilder frontier areas of the land in search of bigger payouts. The main thing that seems to set adventurers apart from soldiers or guards is that they have a specialised skill set. If a lord or other organization has a problem they can't solve with an army, and instead need a specialist to take care of, that starts to sound more like a detective, or spy. So the standard adventurer might be more of an "agent" type for a larger group. The biggest part of the hero adventurer archetype though, is the freedom to make choices and make a difference in the world. A small, powerful group of free agents who regularly use violence to enforce their ideals is an existential threat to any power structure (government, church, guild, etc), so it seems unlikely that the classic traveling fantasy adventurer would ever be a regular career. Possibly tolerated in times of extreme strife, but likely given the choice of swearing to a lord or being executed most other times.
That sounds like an excellent adventure seed. Your party outlevels everyone that the local noble can throw at you from his own forces, but he can constantly harass you, as long as you are in his domain. Additionally, this behavior is extremely common in the nobility in settled regions, making it hard to make a profit, or have downtime. While a nobles forces might be massively insufficient to take you on, he could possibly hire your rivals and enemies to take you out. If he only sought to drive you out, he could destroy any place that gives you shelter, or buys your loot. This gives many options, becoming a revolutionary, leaving, just assassinating enough of the nobles family to force a dynastic change, falsely swearing to him, genuinely swearing to him, and many other options
I really think adventurers fit well with the modern fantasy concept of dungeons as living monster spawning machines which can be farmed for resources to fulfill a civilization's needs. Its also interesting to explore what these dungeons are and why they do this. Some ancient civilization created them to terraform or supply the needs of a planet etc.
In OD&D you wandered in a points of light world. Civilization isn't the norm, the wilderness is. Civilization is one stronghold and the five hexes surrounding it. A region map can have a number of these strongholds on it. The rest is wilderness, filled with monsters, tribes, small hamlets and buggery. Civilization only happens when someone beats a hex into submission and plants a fort on it. Either the large nations are off-map, or you are standing on top of fallen ones. There is no nation-states and empires on the map.
As far as I'm concerned, adventurers and mercenaries are pretty much the same thing. The job is what makes it different. If you're tasked with the protection of a traveling caravan from town A to town B, you're a mercenary. Regardless if you're killing monsters along the way. If you're hired by a private entity to go on a long journey to, let's say, find the Holy Grail in some Japanese guy's backyard then you're probably an adventurer. I'd like to think that the word Adventurer is just that, a word. Freelancers, sell sword, hired muscle, mercenary... They're just names.
yeah. Societies throughout history loved the concept, throughout many different eras. Before Medieval Adventurers there were champions of Greek and North myth. Afterwards, we got things like the swashbuckler pirates of the Age of Sail, Ronin Samurai, and the Wild West Gunslinger.
I think the idea of the adventurer is actually a lot older than we give it credit. It's an ancient motif of the knight's errant, Jason and the Argonauts, Achilles and the Myrmidons and the Indo-European concept which probably all of these derived from the Kyros. It'll probably stay with us for forever or as long as our civilization exists
A common trope for fantasy economy is that monsters when killed will yield a magic crystal that was in its innards. The more powerful the monster, the more potent the crystal. Those crystals are used to power magical devices and/or big spells. Other parts of the monsters can be used as materials for alchemy or improving the craft of armors and weapons.
15:19 You do have one kind of mercenary that is at least not as commonly vicious as others, and that is the bounty hunter. In fact, this is what a lot of players in D&D wind up unintentionally playing.
Aye, just because you're good at fighting people doesn't mean you're good at fighting monsters doesn't mean you're good at solving puzzles doesn't mean you're good at finding treasure...
@@vannederynen1 But just because you're a good monster-fighter doesn't mean your party's thief will automatically survive a fight. A task force with one representative from several different career fields isn't guaranteed to be effective. Diversity isn't a cure-all. That's why Shad suggested entire parties with specialties, such as monster parties, treasure-hunting parties, etc. The king or local lord could rotate teams in and out as the mission changed, rather than sending in a team with just one good monster-fighter, or just one good puzzle-solver.
A good example of a good story about a village seeking aid from "adventurers" would be Akira Kurosawas movie the 7 Samurais. Also one way to play adventurers could be as a smaller scout group for a larger expedition/organisation. One good if small example of what could drive a local adventurer was mentioned as a small and brief conversation with a drunk man in Baldurs Gate 1, he is angry that his son died and blames Adventurers for "putting ideas in his head when he should have stayed home on the farm" only for a friend of his to argue that the boy had been to much of a firebrand to ever settle down as a farmer and that the new plough he had bought had been payed for by gold earned clearing out Kobolds from the local area. it is a very short and easily missed thing but it has stuck in my head for years.
Most settings with adventurers, especially from asia, have governing adventure guilds that regulate adventuring type works, gathers contracts and distributes these as quests to their adventurers. In some cases they even train prospecting new candidates and usually have a ranking system so Nooby mcnobody doesnt just pick the quest to slay the red emperor dragon of mount uberdoom on his first day. Considering the guilds of our real world in the past this could also be a way of how adventuring could be regulated. Ofcourse the system is prone to abuse and such a guild would hold tremendous power. Also the reason for people to become adventurers might be based simply on prestige and potential riches. In most of these settings adventurers are basically monster hunters in anything but names. And in most of these settings monster corpses are very valuable for alchemists and magicians and craftsmen. On the other side a local lord would most likely be more busy protecting his borders from invasions by monsters or other human realms then to send his men into the monster invested wildlands on a whacky goose chase that might result in nothing but dead soldiers. In come the adventurers that are by nature mostly disposable... no ones gonna shed a tear for some random mercenaries disapearing in some manticores belly. But yeah adventurers would most likely form organisations to regulate the business just like the craftsguilds of yore did in the past. Not only for logistics but also for political power to make sure that its most powerfull members wont be used as tools of war, nor turn into petty tyrants.
guilds were such a wonderful thing. the same potential for corruption as unions, but significantly better at actually preserving the industries and workers. and what's more, the only ones who ever operated a non-corrupt system of disaster or health insurance.
@@KairuHakubi They where also super secretive when it came to crafts and how to do things. And had severe economic power. If you pissed off a guild, you would not get any work in that location anymore
The village "champion" did exist during feudal times. Studies of graves of low level infantry show shoulder injuries from wrestling from years before. So when a village was required to call up levies, it appears the same people went off every time. And they continued to train unofficially during more peaceful times.
For your traditional roaming adventurers, you need a setting where monsters are common enough that a living can be made wiping them out but not so common that strong armed forces are required at all times for settlements to even exist. There might be law enforcement or militia on hand but they wouldn't fight off orc hordes every day. Some of the better written stories involving adventurers present them more as professional monster exterminators than explorers, There are even a few that play up the role of an adventurers guild in vetting and organizing adventurers to ensure the work gets done and as few people as possible are killed doing it. It seems like something that would realistically happen so that there are not unknown heavily armed groups just wandering freely from settlement to settlement.
11:00 In my DnD game, travelling is generally done in large caravans. You pay the caravaneer guild, they hire guards, and they protect the caravan. The fare is generally a few sp per trip. The pay is 5sp per day, 1gp for foe defeated, payed upon reaching a destination (the caravan leader does not carry the gold with them for security reasons) Not every caravan arrives safely, but it is a lot safer then travelling alone. Of course a rich person could buy a wagon and hire personal escort instead.
I mean in overlord they have a very interesting way of looking at it. In Overlord, there is a serious problem with hostile monsters and the like, so they hire adventurers to go and kill them. The Adventurers are essentially anti-monster mercenaries paid per kill to keep the monster population down. And because killing is the only way to really level up combat skills past a certain point, it leads to adventurers being excessively powerful. So much so that there are gentleman's agreements between different Kingdoms and principalities not to use adventurers in military conflicts because it would lead to an arms race of adventurer-soldiers. These adventurers are really adventurers in name only and rarely go too far out of their way unless hired to do so by a wealthy client. Examples in the show include a pharmacist hiring a band of adventurers for escort to a remote frontier village for a fixed price. Another example being the discovery of a dungeon, in which a wealthy lord hired several bands of adventurers to explore it, for a small share of the loot. But these would remain rare examples of adventurer work, as most work would consist of sallying forth into the hinterland, finding something hostile, killing it and the bringing back proof of the kill for a bounty.
I read only the books and don’t know if it was told in anime, but in books it was literally pointed out that “adventurers” are just anti-monster mercenaries, which may do additional tasks. They very rarely go on exploring the world. While the “adventure guild” is created as an independent organisation, they are still bound to local laws and can’t avoid state influence. As an armed organisation they can pose threat to the higher classes. So every guild in different countries is basically a "separate organisation". Only Ainz tried to make “adventurers” truly go on adventures and explore the world, by fully absorbing the guild into the state. Basically, his idea is “The state protects its people from monsters and other threats. Adventurers should explore the world and do agency work.”
It's still a pretty flimsy arrangement. All it would take is for one faction to believe they have stronger adventurers than the other factions for the whole thing to break apart. No faction would willingly lose a war just because they're afraid of a future arms race.
@@mariusdragoe2888 There is another problem: what if some adventurer or group of adventurers decides they want to be the new nobles/rulers? Basically the old question what happens when superman demolishes the white house, but the army has had the chance to create their own superman but didn't...
When you were talking about a local champion protecting their home because they have ties there, you forgot to mention the "Adventurer" whose home town was attacked and everything destroyed. So they travel helping towns.They wouldn't be doing it for money or glory. They would be doing it to try and prevent what happened to their home town. It would be similar to Goblin Slayer. He isn't killing goblins for money or glory. He is killing them to prevent what happened to his sister from happening to others.
I like how you think, yeah, while it may be rare, their are people who would become adventurer's because they suffered a tragedy like that, while they still need money, they are not so attached to it to obsess over it, which I think makes them more effective, they are going to be the most determined to see the job done
That's a pretty successful trope. Batman. Spider-Man. Genos from "One-Punch Man". The Lone Ranger. Samurai Jack. Blade. Van Helsing. Conan, sort of. (They're not all KNOWN for wandering, but all have been known to travel to an adventure.)
@@IanGarris yeah, many people do thing's because of trama, some productive, and some destructive, either way, trauma is one hell of a motivator if you think about it
Bounty Hunting and mercenaries would be incredibly common. Adventurers can be a really strong pest control service, turning in fingers,ears, teeth, or heads of various monsters for coin and gear. These adventurers can be of any morality since they're a man with a craft. I'd say this definitely supports Ranger type combatants who ambush and trap monsters. The Adventurers Guild is about keeping territorial boundaries and helping fill in gaps for emergencies. These pest control Adventurers can become home town heroes, or decide that being a travelling mercenary suits them more.
I would recommend a Manga Series called "Dungeon Meshi", the series has some brilliantly detailed explanations for dungeon ecosystems as it plays out and a lot of the concepts in it for how dungeons work and it fills in a lot of gaps in the concept of being an adventurer as a profession, without spoiling too much the dungeons themselves have a reason to make themselves profitable to adventurers.
they could be mercenaries that do adventuring as a pastime when there is no one hiring for professional soldiers edit: oh it was mentioned in the video!
I feel like some important and informative parallels were missed. The frontiersman, trapper, and whaler. These individuals were often independent or small operations. They were about as close as you can get to the dnd fantasy adventurer in my opinion. Enjoyed the video as always though. 👍
Yeah, if monster parts are valuable you'll have an economy built around them. Doesn't have to be dragonbone for magic swords. In the Stormlight Archives, one of the primary uses of chasm fiend gemhearts is magically transmuting rocks into food.
personally i thought more of a local guild which centralizes the requests of the village/city folk and possibly also buy and sell monster parts for the adventurers. then there's also the possibilitie of dungeons or larger monster nests which can be used or be attacked for a longer period of time than say a nest of 20 goblins. the existence of these would also remove the need to move away from your starting/home town because you could just go deeper into the dungeon/monster nest. of course there would still be normal "free" monster just out there which would enable adventurers to pendle between locations through, like you said, protecting these caravans.
I'm particularly fond of the adventurer guild. A rich organization that offers bounties or quests for adventurers to complete at either the request of the organization or an outsider paying them. It sort of works as a way for the customer to know they're getting their money's worth compared to hiring a random guy off the street that's good with a sword. You could easily put an adventurers guild hall in every major city and have them regularly send one or two adventurers to smaller villages for a set time to just help out for a set amount of money upon their return.
I think one of the main differences between historical adventure and tomb raiding and fantasy adventure that would keep the rich benefactor from being common is many or most of the artifacts recovered would be worth more to keep than to hand over for money. These would be magic weapons or armor or possibly a ritual site that grants magic powers.
I think shad’s example of a group of town protectors can also become a type of adventure’s guild. As their renown grows, people from farther away come with requests or want to join the group as adventurers. Maybe something similar is occurring in a mother nearby town, and that forms a rival guild. Eventually you have a huge network of guilds that take on requests all over the world, with bigger guilds having stronger members and higher prices
As much as I liked this video, I think there's more to be explored here: If it's a world populated by monsters in every forest, we wouldn't have adventurers per say, but armed guards that may be hired by traveling merchants to protect them for one leg of the journey till they reach an outpost, and then so on. If it's a world that has a lot of treasure dungeons occupied by monsters, we would have a "wild west" period in the beginning, where all the easy dungeons are raided by low tier adventurers. Eventually only the high risk dungeons would be left. This would give rise to archeological style expeditions, which would be financially backed by a rich aristocrat. He/she would be the one organizing different skill sets by hiring from various guilds, and there would be a budget to reflect the funding. The guilds can be Academic(mages, historians) Craftsman(weapon and armor smiths, cobblers, tailors) and Warriors(Crossbowmen, Witchers) The successful guilds would be the ones who have secondary sources of income, and the respected ones would monopolize the market to root themselves in this economic niche. If there is a lot of local strife, with dark lords, vampire groups, civil wars, epidemics etc, that would be the one scenario where the cutthroat mercenary would thrive. They would come in small clans, and would be paid by local rulers to help get rid of the evil. Shad I know you've touched upon all of the above, so I'm leaving this here in the hope that it will complement your video.
I always thought that the most difficult thing of been an adventurer in medieval Europe would be travel from city to city. I mean, was not like “come on in; you’re welcome here”.
Shad called mercenaries out to be unreliable plunderers, which sometimes was true. Though honestly, that was also true for regular armies and sometimes even in their own territory. There is a phase from ancient Greek that reads like: Justice is only a matter between equals. As the powerful do whatever they want and the poor suffer what they must. A group of peasant living peacefully is not the equal of an armed group passing by.
There was this NSFW game that actually gave a good reason as to why adventuring parties exist. Portals to random planes started appearing in a location in the planet. Those would appear and disappear seemingly at random, but they provided a lot of opportunity for gathering rare magic resources. Eventually a city formed near the portals due to them drawing activity, and people risk getting trapped in an alternate dimension fighting monsters unless they return before the portal closes. The king's army regulates controls the city, and the adventuring and access to the portals is controled by a guild of mages that by studying them have an idea of when they might appear and what the other dimensions are. The time-limited nature of the portals and the variety of the places they go through make it most suitable for mercenary types, as it's too high risk for a standard military. The high reward potential of finding magic crystals and getting rich in turn attract adventurers. So those alternate dimensions are mostly populated by adventuring parties scouting the place, foraging and travelling light in the search of treasure or capturing monsters unique to those dimensions to send to farms. The king maintains his control by taxing the portal guild, the guild gets rich by paywalling the access to the portals, and farmers get rich by placing bounties on certain species of monsters for them to tame. And of course, there's also an arena where adventurers train and fight captured monsters for sport and entertainment.
I have always like the idea of the local "adventurer's guild" which while similar to the "local champion" concept, might be based in some larger population center like a town or city and then be hired around to the local villages and country side to hunt down monsters, raiders, bandits, etc. So they can be a larger group which can operate out of a specific location, but work in a larger range than just a single town or village, and also allocate more or fewer people depending on the size of the job-- i.e. a few people to take out a medium-sized monster which has entered the area, or call out the whole guild to hold back a pack of raiders or what have you.
One thing to note that was missed in what gives rise to adventurers is centralisation. Just as in our world mercenaries and more local solutions to threats was far more common in the borderlands or in areas where there was no reliable type of protection from the state (I am looking at you holy roman empire.) Its a bit of a supply/demand thing. If the state takes care of the protection by sending out the army to kill or drive of the monsters at regular intervals there would be no need for mercenaries and adventurers as the state got it handled. But if the country is disorganised/corrupt or occupied with bigger problems like fighting the neighbour, then adventurers and mercenaries would start to crop up as people are willing to pay them either in money for the mercenaries or respect in the local community.
2:39 I love how Shad took a look at mid-evil fantasy role play, asked himself why would adventures adventure and the answer he came up with was 1) Dungeons, and 2) Dragons. 🥁
since you mention "Adventurer" being an occupation at 12:18 : In DnD settings, there actually are "adventurer's guilds" in which adventurers basically are small scale mercenaries. A Mercenary company you would hire to be part of an army, but an adventurer's guild you just offer a reward for ... killing those wolves who have been mauling the local sheep. And Adventurers look at those tasks and say "I can handle a few wolves, simple enough."
Interestingly the world you’re describing sounds a bit like the late 19th century US frontier. It was post civil war so most men had some military experience. Some of them became sheriff of a town that would pay them to keep the peace in that town specifically. They would live in the town put down roots and maybe have a family. Some became US Marshals who had wider areas of responsibility like transporting prisoners from the small towns to courts or prisons, Hunting down outlaws and criminals outside of the towns or immediate territories. Then some men were closer to mercenaries getting hired by private companies (railroads, mines or companies like the Pinkertons) to protect the property of the company. Then you also had individuals who became bounty hunters chasing down criminals for reward money. All that’s before you get to the downright criminals of highwaymen, bandits and robbers. There’s room for all of these roles to exist in a medieval fantasy setting and all would require the adventurer skill set to one degree or another. P.S. love your content Shad!
The defias brotherhood was such great "villains" in early wow since the whole reason they are the bad guys is because they rebuilt stormwind and build the fort guarding the dark portal and didn't get payed after all the work was done. You can easily say they are technically good guys and in a dnd setting its easy to make the adventure party side with the brotherhood ^^
When it comes to 'local' adventurers, I really like the way Danmachi handled Orario: since all of the monsters and magical items appear in this one place, all the people who want to become adventurers congregate here and the city is essentially run by the Adventurer's Guild. Honestly, I could see that happen in many medieval fantasy settings, where adventurers become so common and so powerful that it would make sense for them to just claim the land. What's the king going to do about it, who is he going to hire to take out the dragon slayers, god breakers and mythic item owners?
21:30 I actually think this sounds similar to a feudal system. The local lord's responsibility was to protect the land and in return the local peasantry paid a tithe. I don't think we would necessarily see adventuring guilds for a local town pop up as this protective roll was mostly fulfilled by the feudal system anyway. Of course there would be some differences as a world with monsters would probably be a more hostile world to your common person, but I don't know that it would be substantially different in the big picture of societal organization. Of course in the real world we did see mercenaries so I don't see why there wouldn't also be adventurers/mercenaries that would perhaps specialize in monster slayer (Witchers?), I just don't think that the adventuring guilds would take care of day-to-day defense.
Exactly. The biggest conundrum with Adventure Guilds is that the security services they provide would totally already be done by a government, if this were the real world. I don't see how they would pop up in the first place.
@@lekhakaananta5864 carthage they were merchant nation were you coud by youre way out of consription so they hired lot of mercs other woud be city states italy third conquistadors and privaters
@@lekhakaananta5864 Though what if larger kingdoms and empires are the reason adventuring guilds become a thing? Like they set up and fund these groups to act as hubs on their edge territories?
@@aquamarinerose5405 They already have armed forces. If you gave this task to a real world government they'll look at what they already have and go like "yeah ok deploy this military asset for this mission". They wouldn't come up with a completely new paramilitary organization for this. This is a case where world-builders worked backwards. Yes you can sorta justify the existence of adventure guilds if you start with that assumption, but a historical analysis doesn't work like that.
@@lekhakaananta5864 I more meant like in Medieval Times or places loke the Roman Empire where/when information takes longer, Smaller Hubs that can scout talent and respond quickly to Monster Problems at a local level. Or at least act like the Avengers Civil War Superhero Registration thing was supposed to do. Register and keep adventurers in check as make sure sufficiently powerful adventurers can't just go make their OWN kingdom
In a world with monsters I would have always thought the local soldiers would basically be split into those who fight humans and those who fight monsters. Basically 2 forces paid for with taxes with 2 different specialities. This is for bigger settlements and would offer a more reliable answer for those in power as you wouldn’t want to be heavily reliant on an outside force of ‘adventures’ who have little loyalty and what Lord, King or Queen would want someone else having a military force in their province/realm. You would expect them to then send detachments to the smaller towns and villages when necessary keeping scouts and a basic force where necessary. If anything the fantasy adventurer would likely be considered a negative by anyone in power because who wants any strong opposition not under your own control acting in your lands?
A lord sure would want to keep an army loyal to him. But would he really want to pay for monster-slaying out of his own pocket, even when there are no monsters around?
@@kotarouinugami1745 No wouldn’t have thought so but I suppose it depends on the world and how much of a monster problem there is. In most fantasy worlds there never seem to be a drought, I guess monsters evolved to breed at an exponential rate to combat the fact they’re always being hunted. Essentially the response would be commensurate, but I imagine you’d always have a few guys who knew how to slay monsters even if you don’t have a full army, again. Depends on how long it would take to train people up to be able to respond to the relevant situation.
So a "local champion" tasked with defense becomes increasingly powerful as people give him land, to the point where he and his family become the "owners" of the land and are tasked with its defense, turning the people who live in it effectively his "servants" Where have I seen this before...
You don't even need to go that far: Wealthy peasants had more land than other peasants (obviously) and hired poorer peasants to work on them. Unsurprisingly they weren't any kinder toward the people working their land than nobles were.
Shad, your mentioning Audible just reminded me of this. And, I'm guessing many who regularly keep up with your content would find this interesting too. Audible just released, within the last couple days, the first ever audiobook version of Michael Moorcock's _Elric of Melnibone_ series. Its been produced in two large parts, and the individual stories appear _chronologically_ (thank god). If you've never read the Elric Saga, do so! It is a staple in fantasy literature. As you read it, you'll see its influence _everywhere_ throughout the fantasy genre. You can, of course get the actual physical books and read those. But they can be pretty tricky to find. Either way, you won't regret checking this series out. Thought maybe some would appreciate the heads-up.
I think that the presence of monsters might change the historical tendency for mercenaries to be so cutthroat somewhat; historically they were paid for fighting and killing other human beings, which is going to have very particular psychological requirements/effects on people. When instead their role is primarily killing _nonhumans_ to protect _humans,_ that might make a difference.
I can think of a couple ideas that could/do explore the role of adventurers in a fantasy setting and have some basis in reality. The first would be the concept of the questing knight. Historically when you have a warrior cast like the medieval knight or even the samurai, something that's generational, you end up with people who are very good at doing their job, but who conversely become a huge problem during peacetime. Having a bunch of people sitting around who are both very good at killing and very bored has historically been let's say less-than-good for the common people around them. So naturally we invented ways to keep them busy like the tournament, which let them use their skill to obtain wealth and fame typically without looting and raping their own people. You also see the advent of codes of conduct like Chivalry and Bushido, which are sort of a social constraint to encourage less domestic violence, but I think these also lead into the eventual idea of the quest. By creating these social constraints you also inspire the idea of " I can be better than my peers ( and thus improve the perception of my station) by doing this non or less violent action". The idea of reclaiming or finding a lost holy relic or historic piece pops up in a number of cultures, and has at least some basis in reality. The other Adventurer idea that comes from this system is the idea of a "quest for honor". I think this pops up more in cultures that are built around a "shame" culture than the more modern western "guilt" culture. What I mean by that in this case is that the public perception of your honor is more important than your personal feelings of how honorable you are. Historic examples would be like Musashi in Japan, someone who is not concerned with financial gain but with the prestige that comes from being "the best". I think in a world with monsters, you would see this play out a bit differently. If you have something out there that is more of a challenge than an armed and skilled human, you have this incentive to kill it to say "This is now the benchmark you need to pass in order to compete with me". The final point I want to make is a bit different, and for this I really want to draw on ideas that are prevalent in things like anime. A lot of Japanese fantasies incorporate the idea of an incentive to being an adventurer that exists beyond financial reward: artificial augmentation of your skills or abilities. We kind of look down on this idea in the West as being a bit too videogamey to suspend disbelief. That aside, in a world that runs on magic it kind of makes a certain sense. Not all animes/mangas/light novels fully explore or even bother to explain this idea, so i'll use and example of one that does: "Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?". In that world adventurers are able to gain magical enhancements by forming a mutually beneficial contract with a deity. The humans get advanced powers and abilities and the gods get an agent able to carry out their will, as they are forbidden direct interference. The video game like stat block of skills and abilities, is a sort of interface that breaks down what the blessings of the gods provide in a way that the person receiving those blessings can understand. I think this makes sense for fantasy adventurer but obviously it has little basis in reality.
The last segments of your comment apply to our campaign. The four players accidentally became the Four Winds. Now they each have a custom title that expands their Background feature(s), with optional elemental upgrades to seek out. For example, the Psi Fighter orc can now enter the dreams of neutral or allied creatures to fight nightmares. I’ll go back over your comment, because there’s probably something in it that can help tomorrow’s session. EDIT: I’m also in a long-running campaign, now high level, where we’re each becoming agents or champions of heroic gods. For me, Helm broke the curses off a +1 weapon and +1 armor because I got a Nat 20 Religion check after a prayer. Now the DM sometimes gives me signs from Helm, or extra flashy finishing blows for flavor. I just have to keep up the roleplaying and tactical thinking. Good times.
@@szarekhthesilent2047 That depends on how important such skills are for the continuation of your family. A family of knights is dependent on strength of arms, tactical knowledge in combat, and being generally knowledgeable on a wide variety of topics as they also tend to own small amounts of land that will not bring in a lot of money. If even one child is not up to par it can bring down the entire family in a single generation. The higher up the person the knight serves the worse this gets as their actions reflect on the person they are sworn to serve. It takes becoming purely ceremonial where they wont actually see combat that such families start degrading. This is also why Noble families who only really need to manage large amounts of land and pay taxes tend to wind up having degradation relatively quickly, only solid math skills and understanding of politics and land management really matters. If the ancestors were really good at their job and have tons of money stashed away then it leads to the partying syndrome many descendants wind up having.
@@TankHunter678 or you simply promote the best soldiers by awarding them knighthood. And when they die their holdings return to their liege (you). In which case you end up Like early knights. Or it becomes generational, in which case you sometimes end up with people who cannot fight, or have little or average abilities in commanding. And no, it wasn't necessarily their downfall. That is kinda why tournaments were held, to help establish a standard skill in times of peace and to allow the professional and talented (but poor) showcase their skill and find themselves employment. "A family of knights is dependent on strength of arms," That is why they had men. The "lanze" being a common unit that was expected of a knight. It's up to 20 men. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanze_(milit%C3%A4rischer_Verband) As those are hired based on skill, mostly, they were usually of decent skill. " tactical knowledge in combat, and being generally knowledgeable on a wide variety of topics" there was no formal tactical knowledge to be passed on to knights where I live. And they certainly weren't expected to be (or famous for being) knowledgeable on a wide variety of topics. Quiet the opposite. "as they also tend to own small amounts of land that will not bring in a lot of money." the work was done by the peasents. I have never heard of an instance when they were needing guidance from a knight to get their jobs done. Most of the economic stuff was handled either by the "schulze" or, in particularly rich areas, by other employed professionals. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulthei%C3%9F#Bedeutung_und_Funktion_in_der_Schweiz Doing work like that (the "arrebeit") was considered very unbecoming of a knight's status. They would hunt, speak justice and oversee the peasents when they were working off their time during the "Frondienst". that's...kinda it. Usually there was no need for political skill, unless they were Herzog or higher "If even one child is not up to par it can bring down the entire family in a single generation." Which didn't stop them from being bron as or becoming imbeciles and cripples. Or from going easy on their military duties. Or from being underequipped. We know because the "Fürsten" and "Kaiser" here tried to counter that with laws (setting a standard for the minimum equipment that was expected, for instance.). "This is also why Noble families who only really need to manage large amounts of land and pay taxes tend to wind up having degradation relatively quickly, only solid math skills and understanding of politics and land management really matters. If the ancestors were really good at their job and have tons of money stashed away then it leads to the partying syndrome many descendants wind up having." That... sounds more like a modern problem to be honest... I have never heard of partying syndrom for knights. Maybe german knights were too poor (entirely possible, lol)? Those that did inherit lands tended to become lazy. Which is a very human tendency, as military equipment was very expensive and training (especially in long periods of peace) very pointless. The bigger problem in Germany was, that the lands per knight became much smaller as time passed (due to being passed down to several sons, instead of the eldest inheriting it all), so there were a lot of "knights" who had either no lands, or lands with very little revenue. The former tended to find themselves employment by working for wealthier knights, become monks or mercenaries, the latter would often turn into Raubritter (basically bandits/thugs. just with much scarier equipment, more experience, better training and numbers.) or also become mercenaries.
Being in charge of protecting the local area from monsters while living in a castle and getting money (often a percentage of income) is exactly what feudal lords were for. They had the knowledge and skill in combat and "extorted" protection money. Also the way adventuring guilds are often portrayed is weird. A medieval guild is a commitment for live, they violently guard their specialization and often just as violently guard their reputation from any misdeeds of their own members through punishment. Journeyman members of the adventuring guild would like any craftsmen guild journey through the land to bring their skills to remote communities and larger projects while being bound by a strict code (which often included price lists). And larger towns or cities would have members that are settled there teaching and plying their trade but also able to and often bound by guild orders if necessary to travel in order to join large undertakings.
Plus adding to the state / region into the guild influence making each guild branks different from one these other. Having different rules base off the location you find the guild and what rules that the location government can't restrict the party or uses on the guild. How much percentage does the guild take out of your pay and split it with the government. I would see the guild job as a request that would be send you by the people or government. Guild council leader have influence over things. Like the guild's head council leader of magic, alchemy, mercenary, historian / scholar, hunter, merchant, assassin, governmental and so on. Each guild counsel leader are specialized and influence the adventure guild from being out of control for each kingdom.
of course there is the equivalent of the anit trust laws that the guilds would be threatened by and extra. or some other shit really more offten then not what i saw in one story example in warband for mount and blade with the custom battle option for a commander there was one merchant who was aspiring to become wealthy by legal trade in jalica by selling cloth and did so well there that the guild there was threatened by that man they ruined him by artifically dropping the price of cloth to such a point that he could not afford to keep his shop up so he turned to banditry to take revenge against the guild there and regained the wealth he lost by becoming the largest gang leader in that city and the surrounding area. now something like that story is one of those reasons that the guild should be hessitant on dealing with things that can threaten them or rivals that do better then they are and will not join there lot. they will create something much worse down the line.
@@TheManofthecross Anti-Trust laws are something very recent, like 1930s recent. In most medieval contexts Guilds were legal monopolies because they provided essential skills and guaranteed quality education and quality control as well as safety standards in a much better way than any feudal lord could have. So they enforced membership through fines, imprisonment and other violent but legal enforcement methods. In some places in Britain they even replaced the local governments of towns. Adam Smith's free market theories arose from an opposition to Guilds not to regulation as a whole. Rules enforcement in a feudal society tended to be very local but the reach of Guilds through their Journeyman often but them on a level of Kings.
@@verybigbrain1 I was refering to the anti trust laws un the US when they came about along with the break up of said monopolies. if that is the case then it is justifised with what adam smith's thinking regarding free markets to oppose the lot. it is the guilds enforcement is where things will go wrong. especally with the violent part as well for it will backfire on them and they will make a problem that is so great that even those not of the guild and the proper authorities can see that the guild fucked up there and are paying the price for it.
@@TheManofthecross Anti-trust laws like that require a powerful central authority to make and enforce. In the US the federal government only gained that kind of power during the massive upheaval of the great depression and in a feudal society it just does not exist. And all law enforcement is fundamentally violent. It is after all at the point of a gun/sword and with the threat of eventual lethal force if resistance becomes to great. In medieval times that eventual tended to come much sooner than today whether by a guild, the church or a local lord. Sure from time to time a Guild wold fuck up and a leader would be sacrificed but driving away a guild was something a local lord could not afford. Guilds were a fundamental basis of political and economic power from the early 11th century until the industrial revolution in the 17th century when the first round of automation reduced the value of their training enough to break their economic strength and the centralization of governmental power in the burgeoning empires of colonial Europe finally found the strength to oppose them although they were mostly replaced by the first corporations like the east India trading company which also did it's own law enforcement.
Interesting: I could imagine specialist mercenary groups doing 'adventuring' as a side-line when work is slow being the nearest to the fantasy trope. The highly paid professional siege engineer band made up of a relatively small group of skilled specialists. What do those people do when there isn't an army in need of their expertise to bring castle walls down? I suspect the combination of irregular work, transferable skills, and an expensive lifestyle that would need financing might lead to a bit of 'classic adventuring' on the side. Go home between jobs? Boring!
Now I'm imagining a group of siege engineers who during times of peace will take contracts on monsters like Owlbears, Girallons, Manticores, Griffon, etc. Obviously big dangerous creatures that most people wouldn't stand a chance against..... But some siege engineers who can build two or three Ballista, camouflage them, place a few large bear traps around a dead deer, and the just fire the Ballista at the monster that shows up? Easy enough takedown for guys who would know how to build and operate such machines.
The early modern period has a lot of loose military-entrepreneurs who show up to wars for pay. They fill out one army or the other professionally and go where jobs are available. A lot of odd folks fill out the officer ranks for a while.
For the "Local Adventurers" concept, there is actually a pretty good example in the Companions from Skyrim, if more "provincial" than strictly "municipal" in scale (since they operate in *all* of Skyrim, not just Whiterun). They are a small group of warriors that has their home in Whiterun, and all their members, safe for a few exceptions, came from Whiterun. Though they also lean into the "Mercenary" angle as well, since they take money in exchange for roughing up people that don't pay their debts, hunting down monsters and animals, or hunt down criminals, but they have a strict moral compass. Also, one Adventurer type that shouldn't be ignored is the "Bounty Hunter". If the governments in a given setting have enough bureaucratic capacity to issue bounties for bandits, wanted criminals, and occasionally even monsters, you'll inevitably see people that make a living off of bringing these bounties in.
i love the idea of the local champion and have used this in a few dnd campaigns i also think that the escort type of mercenary could become an adventure
For the Local Champion, I'm reminded of a scene in Waterworld. Costner's character, the Mariner, gets permission to enter the Atoll, and ties his boat to the inside dock He then teases/fascinates a couple of local urchins with some mirrors. At this point, the Atoll Enforcer, played by the late R. D. Call, steps by him. Enforcer: Know me? Mariner: Know your sort. Enforcer: Then you know what I can do if you cause trouble. Mariner: I don't plan to be here long. Basically, the Enforcer serves as a mix between Sheriff when dealing with lawbreakers and the like, and Militia Captain when the atoll gets attacked by pirates. This could be the role of the Local Champion Adventurer, wherein they and some like-minded companions keep the peace in the village, and defend it when it comes under attack.
When I play DnD I have two extremes. 1) I am here to kick ass, get paid, and get laid. 2) It is my duty as a Noble to protect those weaker then me. I will defend the weak and helpless. Keep your gold good sir.
I love how Shad started at local heroes and ended up inventing feudalism.
That’s because that’s how feudalism started. It was literally a group of knights rocking up and saying: pay us tribute or we’ll kill you. It got so bad the Church had to get involved to essentially legitimise the whole thing to stop people dying. Oaths of loyalty were given and you’ve now got Feudalism.
@@SimonVandeGraaf In fairness Diocletian tied people to professions and locations for generations. Romans had Coms and Dux the origin of Count and Duke. It is the Germanic tribes that imposed themselves on an area as defacto lords that adopted the titles as well as tribute systems. "Feudalism" is a hybridisation of the Roman manoralism and another culture's own society imposed onto an area.
To some extend, yes. It highly depends oh how much of protection they really provide. I think it is better to pay taxes and have farm protected than just trying to bribe whatever dimple with a sword comes, because i will keep at least enough to survive, but yes, this can also very easily spiral into mafia-style wars... And that probably happened in many places, until a really powerful guy beat others around, put together a strong enough force and kept other suckers at good distance.
Well, wasn't feudalism kinda invented that way? The dude with the biggest/most fertile farm was basically sustaining the village and thus was able to pay for protection for it, eventually becoming the lord of said village, and since money is a superpower you can inherit... Well...
I suppose you could say feudalism is what humans naturally gravitate to, without any developed theories of statecraft or economics.
All it really requires is people with power taking advantage of it.
That's why I always have to laugh at people who think you can just get rid of the current systems of government and replace them with nothing.
They always get really confused when I call them feudalists ^.^
I think the biggest aspect you overlooked was bounty hunters. Not in a sense of chasing humans, but cities or towns putting up cash rewards for killing the monsters nearby and providing proof. The bounties could be posted by the local government for safety concerns, or by an apothecary that uses the item in their potions.
Once you accept that monsters are real, question how the people and government will react. Maybe a local lord wants to raise their political position by ensuring the safety of the townsfolk and travelers by hiring someone to take out the local goblins completely, but the local guard/military won't do it because they're unsure of the total number of goblins.
Are the funds from a larger government or did the locals pool their money to take care of a problem? A small village constantly being attacked by goblins might petition the government to send soldiers out, but if it takes too long they might pool their money to have it taken care of quickly. An interesting plot point, would be to have a platoon of soldiers arrive the day after a group took care of a problem.
Maybe the local farmers want to pay an armed escort to get to the big city to sell their excess produce. Maybe the army does regular troop movements and any civilians are allowed to follow.
When monsters are real, world-building how society reacts to that can take you down so many roads.
This is how i see adventurers explained in most stories i read, and i think it makes by far the most sense. It also works great as a justification for quests in a game!
There is a whole video about this
So basically Witchers?
@@franciosdeaeruiu7555 In the books/games the Witchers are a dying breed being replaced by bounty hunters and squads of knights who do it for better money than witchers.
Probably more monsters are killed by non-mutants than mutants at this point.
Bounty hunters and mercenaries - the only two arch types that got me into the Star Wars universe. Jedi and Sith are juvenile mystic sci fi wizards, absolutely no interest.
The "local hero" thing for some reason makes me think of the Swedish Empire's allotment system, where each village would have to choose one individual to serve as a soldier, with the rest of the village supplying him food, clothes, and a home. When there wasn't a war, the soldier would work as a farmer, but he was required to attend drills and maintain a level of military readiness - rather like a modern reservist. So I can see a system where each village would pool its resources to buy armor and weapons for one guy whose main job would be to kill any roving monsters who threatened the village.
My great grandpa was the last person to hold that position in Täby. He even appears in a documentary from the late 50s doing a drill and saber routine.
More or less like modern military, upscaled from little town to country.
that's how the feudal system is SUPPOSED to work.. they don't rule everyone, they serve.
@@felixhaggblom7562 that is amazing. you wouldn't happen to know the title or have a link to such a documentary would you?
@@KairuHakubi I’m sure that was the moral consensus of the nobles hip to the universal divinity of the soul.
However, they are almost always outnumbered by aristocratic, philosopher-types; always in a hurry to create industry!
A trick I saw use often in dnd was for the adventurers to get hired as security for caravans to make money and travel safely. They would also hunt criminals and monsters for rewards. So, from my point of view adventurers always have been mercenaries and bounty hunters.
Yeah, but usually, they have a guild or organization behind them that guarantees their character and skill. They are not the "cutthroat war-mercenaries" that usually exist alongside adventurers in many stories. The kind of guys a merchant would not want as guards, because the possibility of them turning bandits in the middle of the road is too high.
@@4Curses that would depend on how advanced the area or city is. If you are from a small town and taking the weekly farm goods to the big market in the large city you would hire the local "adventuring" group that tends to enjoy riding/fighting/exploring. It would be the way to get the characters from their 0-3 or even up to 5 to the big city to first learn from the guild or find a patron for their lessons and further exploration.
Normally with a bit more credibility and usually avoid greaterwars. Overlord (The Anime) I think does a good job differing them from Knights.
@@rosethorn7255 Indeed it does
Everything about d&d can be seen as mercenary/bounty hunter if you play an evil character in a group of goods and neutrals
I feel like Mercenaries being historically disreputable is tied to the fact that they were hired to fight other people. I think that in a fantasy world, mercenaries whose job is slaying monsters exclusively could be slightly less blood-thirsty or cutthroat.
In addition, if you go evil in such a world... well, you better hope your leader is REALLY good tactician and leader, because at some point a force of good, or adjacent force of chaos is coming after you, and your day is gonna suck if you're following someone quite dim.
There was a story I heard of a modern ex military mercenary being an adventurer during hurricane Katrina in the USA black water dudes , which black water = ex military special forces at least from what I think I know of the company that’s what allot of them where. Anyway black water got hired by some rich dude to go get the rich dudes daughter that was trapped in her house from the flood so they loaded up a plane with boats and 4 wheelers flew as close as they could get on some abandoned runway that was only halfway usable part of it was broken or had crashed junk on it or was flooded can’t remember and got her and her family. Right this was a time when you had roving bands of thugs and gangsters looting rapeing etc you had corrupt cops and government people looting and steeling (that’s some real life monsters if you ask me) and these bad a$$ ex military dudes where hired by the “laird” to rescue the “princess” that married the “prince” a couple kingdoms over. And our daring adventures being ex military gear up in arms and armor to go rescue the princess prepared to fight the monsters that got in their way and out adventurers being ex military tan the operation like a military one leaving men behind to secure their exfiltration keeping their PACE plan set up etc if there ever was a modern adventurer it would be special forces. And adventurers would I believe live by the motto… life is a special operation that’s why adventurers are geared just like modern special forces they are geared to deal with the problems that come about
@@hammer1134 It's definitely the case that the private sector will always outperform government. Even after Katrina, where a lot of changes got made to government response to major disasters (I was involved in some of the results of that, as a first responder once upon a time), governments routinely get overwhelmed by hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico. I wouldn't be surprised in various mercenary groups are routinely hired by wealthy people to secure people and property in the wake of such disasters. But there's also a lot of ex-military and other interested volunteers who head to those areas with private boats to go rescue people, deliver supplies, and the like, where government is failing to do so in a timely fashion. And it's pretty common for large beverage corporations to convert over factories for a time to produce canned and bottled water instead of beers and sodas, to donate to areas that need it.
For a fantasy setting, it's a pretty interesting idea for the heroic adventurers to get hired by somebody with the means to pay to go rescue loved ones after natural disasters. Perhaps in doing so they'll discover that great big storm wasn't so natural after all, and there's some evil wizard behind it or something, which could lead to a larger campaign. Maybe there's a series of other natural disasters in quick succession, an earthquake, a volcanic eruption, a tsunami, and the party specializes in that sort of thing.
@@hammer1134 nice, so a fetch quest?...😅
So, Witchers.
It feels more realistic for them to only help if they get paid for it, but I’ve always loved the helping just cause it’s the right thing to do
But to do that you've got to be able to afford it; swords, armor, and food supplies aren't free nor cheap. That's why, in D&D, if you really want your players to help for free, a situation has to concern them or their interests. And frankly, there's nothing wrong with being selfish; we've all got to live and ensure we can do so tomorrow, all the while there's no telling what bad thing the person requesting help has done to deserve his fate...
In a game/fantasy setting its easy choice as no real consequence aside time lost (if u view it as such, depending on game too), however if it were real your life is on the line and if you gotta defend from 5 bandits or a dragon or w/e risking your life constantly for no reward dont think it will go well for long, even if you recieve a good moral reward, you need monetary value to pay for your used resources.
@@aonirsplayground6224 in real life you can`t reload
@@bonbondurjdr6553 Well, usually they are not free... 😁 (Plays thiefs and assassins almost exclusively)
So you want them to put the "free" back into "freebooter"?
The Philanthropic Feelgood Freebooters
The Gallant Gallivanting Gadabouts: The 3Gs
"adventurers" or "mercenaries" make sense if the government is not strong and can't control much on its own, similar to the Condottieri mercenaries in Italian peninsula and the constant skirimisking between small city-states.
If the kingdom is big or becomes a relatively serious empire it has to have strong enough local lords to deal with most of the garbage and monsters on its own, leaving "adventurers" to do the very low-level stuff, like working as private investigators or private security, which is still plenty enough for a RPG game to be fair.
I've always found it silly that everyone needs to hire random murder hobos to get ANYTHING done in a settlement even if it's an obvious threat to their life. How does that society not implode
Guilds. That makes more sense.
Why hire some unknown adventurer with no guarantees of success when you can get a guild to fix the problem for you?
No more dubious nobodies with a sword on their back. You pay up, call the guild, and they will deploy a trained professional to handle than manticore.
@@SergioLeonardoCornejo Sure but what's stopping the guild from taking over after a decade or two? Knightly orders did they over places if there was no one to stop them
@@mariusdragoe2888 it would depend on how they operate. Some may have competition, orhers could be decentralized, and a few could even get so corrupted they would collude with the government and become the de facto military police of the region.
@@mariusdragoe2888 Fun, that's pretty much what's happening in my campaign. One adventurer was so successful, she believes she's better equipped to rule than the Kingdoms of the world. Now the adventurers' guild is aiding in stopping her.
The most funny example to me is Neverwinter Nights 1. The city is under a deadly situation and what does the government chooses to do? Literally sit on their asses and wait for an adventure to eventually come along and solve their problem. Seriously, watch the narrated intro to NVW, its hilarious.
Guts is a good example of a "realistic one", at least before he joined the band of the hawk, but he is a more of an adventurous mercenary
Even before he joined the Band of the Hawk, Guts had a nasty habit of trouble always finding him instead of him looking for trouble.
Seeing your comment made me happy. Its so nice that berserk is finally popular.
@@AllTheOthers beserk always been popular
@@AllTheOthers Berserk was always popular
Blood and Guts just started playing in my head.
While not exactly medieval in time, I am surprised you didn't talk about the "coureur des bois" (woodrunner), a North American concept from early years of colonization. They travelled the land and were basically traders between the Europeans and the various nations in North America. They'd bring goods from the European colonies to the nations, and these would let them hunt for fur and even given them fur to bring back to the colonies. They doubled as explorers and translators in many situations. While the "monsters" might make the hunts more challenging, I believe it could be a possibility in any fantasy world.
This is a great idea but requires a sort of a frontier, which not all settings are able to provide. Some like Golarion or the Forgotten Realms are generally too explored and crisscrossed for new inter-societal relations to spawn out of the thin air.
P.S. Though if we speak about it, I just can’t help but mention: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia
@@DoofExMachina I thought about it too, but there was a group of explorers rather than a single man going into the unknown.
@@krzysztofkowalik7445 Still qualifies for an adventuring party, I suppose?
@@DoofExMachina
In this case, there is quite an interesting thread, because these conquerors of Siberia were actually (initially) outlawed. This is also a reason to go into wild, unknown terrain.
Or monsters could be what the adventurers are hunting for
Honestly, one of my favorite sorts of 'adventurers' are the romanticized wandering knights like you see in Arthurian style tales (modern or not)- the chivalrous and gallant knight questing the land in search of wrongs to right. Don't get me wrong though, I still love me some murderhobos, but the wandering hero is classic for a very good reason.
In Pendragon you get the historically accurate non-historical knightly adventure, out of Mort d'Arthur. You are all part of the feudal hierarchy, you know which baron killed your grandfather in a battle and which baron you serve under. You have one adventure per year, campaigns are generational.
Also know has the medieval batman
There’s too many murderhobo and not enough knights in shining armor stories these days. I’m tired of reading about psychopathic assholes or just assholes or skummy doughe bags. Gimme a noble trying his best to actually live up to the ideal of noblesse oblige, the warrior that doesn’t just kill whoever pisses him off, and for gods sake, a guy who can keep it in his pants until after marriage. Or at least a guy who’s not insulting people just because!
I think a group like Beowulf's who were hired to remove Grendal would also kind of count in this. A group off to try and do saga worthy deeds. Similar to the questing knight in shinig armour concept in I think the most relevant ways.
@@ostrowulf i would even say that the lone wandering knight is rather rare compared to the heroe and a group of friends and companions going on a quest.
I ran a campaign where "adventurers" had a specific job: they were the postmasters. The land between the cities was dangerous, and it was cheaper to just train badass soldiers and have them carry the mail versus hiring a ton of bodyguards for random Joes.
That makes me think of The Warded Man from the Demon Cycle.
And thus the Mojave Courier was born
i forgot the name but there was an occurrence like this in the "wild west" of america, there was a company or something that would hire people on horseback to deliver mail from one place to another
@@darkfishthedestroyer139 Pony Express, if I'm not mistaken.
@@Bubben246 ahh yes, that one
I feel like one aspect of adventurer got overlooked here. Knights errant were some of the archetypal adventurers who went on quests to win mainly glory and demonstrate their prowess. Think knights of the Round Table, for example. You might argue it could fit into the "rich people going exploring" slot, but I really think it's different.
Fun fact: In real live, knights never fought alone, they always had a personal group of warriors at their command. The same with samurais.
That didn't actually happen much. Maybe Ronin regaining honor or looking for a proper death would fit better?
Yeah, I came to the comments to make that exact point. Knights questing for Glory or just desire to test themselves and improve, or due to their code of chivalry. King Arthur Pendragon game does this really well.
@@CosmicFreedoms Jup, both Ronin and Black Knights/Hedge Knights are the real life examples. In both cases they were basically disgraced or empoverished nobles so they had to live off the land/by robbery.
Yeah along with Bogatyri in stories about Kievan Rus
For my setting, "adventurer" is a catch all term. The general consensus of the peoples of this setting is; "You hire traveling Slayers for monsters that you wouldn't risk the local champion for, you hire explorers to find relics and rarities, you hire caravaneers for getting from one place to another and not risk dying to monsters.. and you hire mercenaries to deal with men."
adventuring guild is basicly pmc and pest exterminator servises
best way to add the idea of "an adventurer" would be to add long dead advanced civilizations who would have hoarded Gold. (or non-advanced civilization)
They key is the finding treasure relies on having civilizations who have fallen and not taking their goods with them. Also having monsters be related either as the cause or the by-product of the end of that civilization guarding the ruins is required to have a reason for the ruins not being looted.
Also a big problem of how monsters would exist in a world that also has civilization? its silly to think that every day farmers would constantly be fighting monsters- most likely would be that monsters inhabit areas that are not suitable for normal human habitation. Also areas that are infested with monsters would be devoid of civilization in general.
In my setting "adventurer" is sort of a derogatory term to call an adult; basically if someone calls you that it's an underhanded way of calling you a manchild who can't find a real job at best, and a creepy drifter doing shady work for money at worst. Most REAL adventurers use either "travelers/traveling party" or "sell-swords/spells" because they're not trying to come off as deluded so as not to push away potential job prospects.
How can you be a caravaneer if there is no such thing, caravanner on the other hand just implies that you’re with the caravan, you can hire mercenaries to protect your caravan.
7:01: "A really fun, classic and well-known book series that actually is framed much around classic fantasy tropes is Dragonlance."
Back when those were written, they weren't framed around classic fantasy tropes. They invented a surprising amount of the stuff we consider "classic tropes" today.
Shad: you ever heard of the "stationary bandit" theory for the initial creation of states? It curiously aligns with your telling of mercenaries growing too big and taking entire cities hostages to give them cash.
It goes like this: there is a village. There are various groups of bandits. They usually just raid (kill the cattle), but one group decides it would be easier to ride in town, offer to defend them from the other bandit groups, and get paid smaller amounts over a greater period of time (keeping the cattle for its produce).
Btw, tell this one to Oz. He will love a story about how the state (not talking voluntary governance here) are just a bunch of thieves with the monopoly of use of force.
@Apsoy Pike What are you talking about pre bronze age collapse? This is looong after the bronze age. Centuries after the fall of the Roman Empire. And medieval Europe was basically 99% Catholic. And those who weren't Catholic were probably not all that open about it.
@N Fels I don't think that saying the Catholicism exterminated everybody else is accurate. There were forced conversions, but that is different from extermination. I am also not sure what a female merchant has to do with anything.
@Apsoy Pike The god king is a good long step above the bandit. The word bandit here would represent lawlessness, the disrespect of sedentary practicality, the peasantry's and merchant's submission - to bandits. A part of humanity is strong, viscious and dominant (aristocracy). Another is peaceful, cowardly and productive (peasantry). The god kings' inclination is, among other things, to secure the stability and longevity of the realm. This is feudalism.
@Apsoy Pike You can define it that way - but a caste society with priest/warrior/peasant castes, like Indus, Egypt, etc., is way over at the feudal side as compared with our modern systems. Some of these societies had vast pantheons. In Roman society, each house had its own god / lar. Monotheism was a later state building tool. Medieval Europe was formally monotheist, yet littered with local saints and custom songs and myth, and on top of that, a bunch of folk lore. True monotheism is a modern invention...
@Apsoy Pike We should probably view feudalism as a historical phenomena, a pattern that arises out of practicality and human and economic realities. If you "define" feudalism arbitrarily, you can "prove" anything, but that would be pseudo science.
The central pattern is historically undeniable, caste (not class) societies consisting of priesthood/warriors/peasants, where political rather than economic power reigns supreme.
Theology is less important in societies without loudspeakers on every street corner, where encounters with the supernatural are commonplace. Medieval European religion was is a synchretistic catholitism with ancient greek and kabalistic symbolism, but very alive with religious experience. Religion as "belief" is a modern idea - most of history, the supernatural was simply experienced. As documented by folk tales everywhere.
When bandits settle in, they will be expected by the local populace to play the role of local lord. Following the divine customs! Or another more worthy (more noble) will kick them out, and do.
To have a "realistic" setting for adventurers, you need a world, where there is no strong central government; or areas outside of the control of such governments. You also need an older civilization, with treasure worth obtaining, and dangers that prevent the average person from just walking in and taking those treasures. You mentioned Rome, but the early Dark Ages is actually a time when adventurers could exist. During the devastation of the 30 years war and the various mercenary bands might quality. Also, the Spanish and Portuguese conquests in Central and South America are almost classic examples of small bands of men, far removed from central government authority, facing dangers for treasure. Let's face it, the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings created the entire genre as we know it today. Earlier fantasy (such as Howard's Conan series) was almost always about the adventures of an individual rather than a party, but the whole "ancient" civilization bit was there.
The Symbaroum RPG has a setting where I really like how they worked in how adventurers work. Essentially, the "classic medieval fantasy empire" was recently resettled after losing a war against the big evil, and have colonized an area next to an immense ancient forest (about the size of the British Isles) which covers the ruins of an ancient civilization.
So a lot of unexplored land, a lot of opportunity to get rich, upheaved social structures, a lot of grizzled veterans, and even some regulation (all adventurers are subject to essentially a tax, and it's part of the game mechanics to work out how you're gonna pay that tax).
You're absolutely right. Conquistadors and the New World is indeed a great example. Just a dangerous location with riches that's hard to navigate for large groups, is all that you need, government be damned.
You don't need a weak government in order for adventurers to be a thing all you need is an ebbing and flowing monster problem that you can't predict. What's more cost efficient hiring enough soldiers and training them all to be both experts at fighting humans as well as dozens of very different types of monsters. Or to simply contract the services of people that specialize in killing monsters on a as needed basis? And what would make doing so as easy as possible? A guild?
basicly early medieval nobles were pretty much adventurers, but their adventures were more akin to war, basicly viking raids or Frankish excursions etc.
@@atk9989 when it comes to application of violence states will default to legally bound soldiers in nearly all instances. A monster slaying guild with a contract based system would be seen as a threat to government authority because it would be a group of armed and proficient warriors independent of the state and would be capable of fighting a guerilla campaign the likes of which would make the Vietnam War look like a picnic in Central Park.
On the idea that adventuring in the form of expeditions and safaris as being the domain of the rich, something I feel Shad overlooked is that those rich aristocrats on expedition/safari were almost always accompanied by a whole bunch of people who served as guides, protection and/or general support; most of whom would comprise of commoners (i.e. poor people).
Also, the overall likelihood of adventurers being a viable, standard career path would be inversely proportional to political stability and the strength of the central authority. If the socio-political landscape is volatile, the likelier people will want to hire travelling warriors for protection or to complete tasks on their behalf. Similarly, if there is a strong central authority, people are likelier to turn to them instead of independent travellers to deal with their problems; including the odd monster roaming through the countryside.
That's really a neglected angle.
For a historical example: In the early Age of Discovery, after the Spanish made landfall in America and established the first footholds, there were plenty of people, from Spaniards and Portuguese, to even Germans, French and Scots, that burned their life savings to venture into the unknown and either claim new land, find great riches, like El Dorado, or seek new travel routes.
Basically, if you want an easy excuse for Adventurers (in the Fantasy sense), having a nation that is heavily involved in far-flung trade is the most reasonable way to do it, since journeying into unknown lands, meeting foreign people, taking care of threats to trade routes (bandits, goblins and monsters), following rumors of hidden treasures and ruins, or hunting exotic beasts, all wouldn't be much of a stretch for them to do.
Yesn't
There's points that some rather well written fantasy manga address, and that's that in the outer skirts of a Kingdom's territory where the tactical worth is zero, you find a lot of the time that the "Church" or the Central Kingdom doesn't send out expeditions to wipe out say a band of Goblins, or Orcs or a pack of monsters/wolves busy making life hard for the people in that region because its expensive to move an army, even if its just a small regiment of 50 soldiers, its really expensive. Its much cheaper to move 20 adventurers that basically sponsor their own equipment, armour and potions, meaning they're not expensive to hire and get moving. There's no logistical issues, nor political and bureaucratic red tape to move through as well to move any part of your army, so the response from the central powers is usually then very slow.
What about the town watch stationed there? You can't move them either because then your village/town is left unprotected from raiding bandits as well as from crime inside the town too while they might be on an extermination expedition for a week.
So its not so easy to get a government to move, the stronger that government's influence, the worse it is to get them to move soldiers to kill monsters in a non-important region of the kingdom, unless say its a Dragon/Demon General where the reward for killing a Dragon/Demon General outweighs the cost of moving the army to do it.
Oh yeah, all the peasants they hire to die doing the actual work while they take credit.
As opposed to an absolute monarch (typical late medieval government) a feudal society (typical early medieval government) has decentralized authority. Local lords were rich compared to the farmers they ruled but had nothing close to resources of an absolute monarch or a modern government. A local lord might be unwilling to ask a king who is also a rival for help, yet be unable or unwilling to put band of elite monster hunters on permanent retainer. Why unwilling? Maybe he'd rather spend the money on fortifications or feasting. Or maybe he's afraid they would get bored and become a threat. So instead he hires mercenaries when needed then sends them away when the job is done.
@@Dennis-vh8tz actually at no point in medieval times was absolut kingship a thing that happened after the end of the medival era and all the Nobles were warriors and they lived for glory and even hunted dangerous animals as a sport trust me they would kill to get to hunt monsters
I mean if magic can be used as a weapon in the setting then there's no reason to assume that some mages or wizards wouldn't also be mercenaries or that there could be entire mercenary groups specializing in magic
Especially since magic is often *very* expensive…
Why would a mage risk it though?
@@samuelsmith2707 If they're powerful enough to fight on a battlefield why wouldn't some sell that ability?
@@samuelsmith2707 same reason there were Combat Engineers, Tinkerers, Blacksmiths, artists, etc. there is a steady income in it and they don't want to become a farmer. 80% of the jobs in Medieval world was related to agriculture... which the smart and clever get bored with real quick.
I had an idea for a group of witchblades that used magic with regular combat, and act more or less like mercenaries until the whole group was given a position in the local army
I think you overlooked some of the most common themes in fantasy worlds, the market surrounding monster parts and rare resources. It comes up all over the place from more classic fantasy like dnd all the way to harry potter. For example the wands in Harry Potter require monster parts and depending on the quality\type of monster parts dictates the wands effectiveness and compatibly with its user. Not to mention the unbelievable demand things like potions, spell/enchanting components, and better amour/weapons would create for monster parts in a world without our modern scientific understating of medicine and manufacturing. So the wealthy aristocratic adventurer, local hero, mercenary, knight/monster hunting orders, or hired guards you spoke about would probably still want to invest in quality gear and potions which in most of fantasy require monster parts to make. There is also the whole nobility paying out of the nose for rare things, health/beauty items, and a chance at immortality. Like even in our reality where magic doesn't exist, all throughout history and even in the modern day wealthy people believe and invest in alchemy, spiritualism, voodoo, and magic for a chance at increasing their lifespans/power/influence. Then there is also the role of information broker/researcher that would pay really well for information about; local monster populations, monster movements, the locations of rare materials, and the locations of historic/powerful items. This would naturally create a demand for people to go and gather this kind of information and in fantasy this role traditionally falls to adventures. You kind of touch on this with the wealthy adventure, but there has always been a subset of the population who would risk everything for glory and notoriety. For example you have gladiators, knights, and nobility who would regularly risk their lives in duels, hunts and competitions to prove the martial prowess. So I think that there would be a not unsubstantial portion of adventures whose motivation would be to prove their strength or seeking notoriety for their deeds. Lastly there is the lower class/impoverished seeking to improve their lives. Because as long as there is no law or regulations preventing low born/non-citizens/uneducated people from becoming adventurers then adventuring would be a likely choice for orphans, refugees, and unskilled laborers.
you fcker need more up vote.
paragraphs are good
Wow, that was an awesome breakdown. Very logical.
In the AD&D 1e DMG it's heavily encouraged that adventurers be from the middle class. No aristocratic obligations of the upper class, no poor education and responsibilities of being low class.
I ain't reading all that
I feel like lessons can be taken from all of these ideas. One idea I want to note that Shad didn't really cover here though is the idea of the Monastic-Military Order, your Order of the Flaming Rose from the Witcher, or Templars if we are to take a more historical example. This kind of pseudo-centralized military organization with ties to (and funding from the tithes of) the church, that go around town to town where Priests report monsters to bravely fight off the invaders while singing the praises of their god to the grateful peasants. And this again can become a corrupt thing, towns with no church, or very cynical populations, are left bereft of defences against monsters, while towns with really prominent cathedrals are virtually impervious, and the surround local area is safer, encouraging trade, making them trade hubs, and thus hubs of civilization. You could see tremendous church control of politics, and populations centred on cities of religious importance.
I was expecting him to get to the Templars when he was talking about medieval travel, but he completely bypassed pilgrims.
The good ending
A fantasy adventurer could work like a “tinker” “ragman” or similar. These are trades that traveled from town to town collecting junk and repairing items. They had to travel because there wasn’t constant business in one area to support them. They ran a circuit to frequent places on a sort of a schedule.
That's the Artificer class right there especially if they have smithing, woodcarving, or leatherworking tools upon their tinkering set and thieving tools.
most apprentice craftsmen had to leave their homes after their apprenticeship and became journeymen. They had to travel and work for a few years to train their craft in many different places. A few crafts kept that system to this day in Germany, you can still encounter journeyman carpenters walking from building site to building site offering their services to the company building roofs and other woodwork (Germany builds mainly in concrete and brickwork, but the roofs are wood constructions with ceramic tiles on top; but there are cases of half timber buildings being built to fit in with the old neighborhood)
These are the types of guys that would know the escort times and such and would most probably travel with the larger caravans that would be going further to get to their destination when possible. They would also tend to either be good at talking their way out of trouble or using what they have to defend or conceal themselves when they are forced to travel alone.
This would work very well for monster hunters and the like, since if they do their job right, there won't be any more work in that area for a while.
I could even see people whose job is just to walk the roads alone or in small groups, presenting a tempting target for bandits and monsters, then kill them. They wouldn't get all of them, but they'd thin the numbers, and the ones that remain would be too scared to attack travelers. No need for big, inconvenient caravans when every traveler might be a one-man-army in disguise. And if you want to justify women being powerful warriors in a world like ours where they are generally weaker then men, here's an easy solution: they also generally make better bait for human monsters.
Best way to look at it is that "adventurer" is not really a job, just a description. Most adventurers even in DnD are treasure hunters, mercenaries, crusaders, bodyguards, thieves and so on.
Whole DnD campaigns and novels can go by without the word "adventurer" ever being said.
"just another job"
The difference is most would stop after a few big jobs and retire. Likely many do, and those that don't likely get killed.. probably why there are so few.
But just as there are billionaires what keep working, some adventurers keep "adventuring".
If you can determine what drives your adventurer, you'll be that more realistic.
Depends. In many Japanese adventure stories an adventurer is a proper job with a guild to oversee it, classification, tests, quests etc.
@@Unsensitive Or maybe putting an end to the adventures is not an option, as in Dark Souls for example. Keep fighting or turn into a braindead monster, basically, but that is a very specific scenario of course.
@@Askorti i know what you referring to and imo, thats super dumb. Its **very** videogamey, its something that usually happens in isekais when the protagonist can literally open a level menu 🤮
@@agrippa2012 Agreed. I think some kind of organization or place where people can just put up miscellaneous job descriptions isn't necessarily unrealistic, but the ranking system and guild status just makes it way too videogamey
So as far as the "adventure seeking" goes, the Norse who went "viking" would be a very good historical analogy. They would leave for a while to trade, sail, fish, hunt, raid, sell their services as mercenaries, travel the world.
There would also be the Knight Errant, who travels with their retinue in search of challenge. A knight, their priest, arcane advisor, skilled servant, maybe a herald. Sounds rather like a classic adventuring party to me.
Just don't forget the coconuts 😉
Interesting fetishised, fantasy image you're offering up there.... Nice job of ignoring all of the horrendous, parasitic crime as well. Its all romance really, when you think about it, isn't it? Stick a thousand years between us and them and it's all cool
@@tommeakin1732 what would be a better real world analogue then?
@@tommeakin1732 reality sucks. That's why we have fantasy.
@@tommeakin1732 the whole genre is called "fantasy" for a reason, you know.
I highly recommend "He who fights with monsters" in that regard. The series features a surprisingly sophisticated and (IMO) consistent world, that explores how the adventurer and monster tropes (among others) would affect societies on a fundamental level. It finds a lot of interesting answers to the usual inconsistencies of high-fantasy worlds. It features a lot of the stuff you mention in the video and takes quite a few of those tropes even further.
Experienced adventurers are basically demi-gods that rule entire countries because nobody could stop them. Pretty much anyone who gets to that stage trains up their own family to obtain powers themselves which is exactly how aristocracy works in that world. Adventurer clans spend a lot of time rying to one-up another in local politics while a bunch of official societies attempt to motivate them to actually do their job and keep the countryside safe from monster threats (most of them are too lazy to travel and do dangerous work).
The low end of society tries to get members into adventuring because it usually guarantees their rise in society. That's more wishful thinking though because the nobility is very much in control of magic and training resources. Inequality in that scenario is very much off the charts and in a very believable way. Most low-level adventurers were pushed into that job by their families and eventually stop hunting monsters because it's quite traumatizing and dangerous. Those people often end up as guards of the nobility or thugs in criminal organizations. Neither pays particularly well of course.
Essentially, the stereotypical fantasy hero is more menace than any dark lord they may have opposed.
that sounds a lot like Hunter x Hunter as well although it started going off the hinge after they "passed" the test ... and again ... and again
@@Amokra The test itself was already pretty dark if you think about it.
@@phillipjiang1593 yeah thought it was cool the show just started getting "always a bigger fish" or "finish the true test"
This is basically capitalism. But violence is the currency.
I have always thought that one of the best real life examples of adventurers are the so called Spanish conquistadors. These were privateers from all social classes, who ventured into uncharted land in search of fame and riches, after rumors of fantastic cities and civilizations. But not only they went after gold: sometimes they went after things like the fountain of eternal youth, or just on a quest of discovery. These guys were the result of a fashion of the time: the errant knight books and novels that were very popular in Spain back then. And although nowadays they are often vilified under our modern moral lense, they accomplished amazing feats under extremely difficult circumstances.
Imagine a D&D campaign where you adventure in a continent of savage Goblins, then find out they're just as sentient and deserving of life as you... but you gave them all Smallpox.
I think a great thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the conquistadors is that they had massive staffs, and the leaders were driven by zeal and their great decisions often boiled down to being the survivors after throwing things at the wall. Adventurers are more likely to be the staff than the conquistador, and since our parties are usually heroes, they'd probably end up more like the star duo of Road to El Dorado than Orellana or Cortez.
@@fizzledimglow3523 Miguel the Bard and Tulio the Rogue... Road to El Dorado was a pretty great D&D adventure!
They're also a great deconstruction of the sort of looting adventurers do, as one consequence of their actions that isn't often brought up is that they actually took _so_ much gold from the Americas that they crashed Spain's economy.
@@SomeRUclipsTraveler that sounds like a mood killer because when you think that this could be interesting but then they all die
I've always thought adventurers as minor celebrities (like streamers) would be a funny angle in a sort of tongue-in-cheek manner. There would be a lot of investment in Bard's tales and whatnot, and the plucky adventurers would have to overcome the dual issue of not being a recognisable household name and low-level monsters being swarmed by every would-be upstart band of adventurers.
"Look, kid," the Dour Bard said. "I've seen countless bright-eyed youngsters and aging has-beens like you wanting to etch your names into history, be the names on everyone's lips, the heroes of the songs bards like me will be playing in taverns and village squares the world over to crowds eager to heart them be played.
"I've also seen countless hordes of them die trying, give up and go back to their lives, or just become the guys you go to when you've got a goblin problem and your local lord can't be arsed to send their men to do it.
"You want to know why it seems that the time of the Mage of Eternal Spring, The Radiant Princess Knight, and The Hand of God seemed to just be bursting at the seams with all these proud, popular, and beloved adventurers?
"Because it's been decades since and we've forgotten about all the _other_ adventurers that tried, died, or faded in the background.
"You're not special. You may never be special. Chances are, you're just going to be a normal, average person who's going to live a normal, average life.
"But the question here is: are you going to keep on working and trying your luck?
"Because once upon a time, those legends were just normal, forgettable saps like you, till one day, they weren't."
And there will be one or two who are sbsolutely horrible clout chasers.
@@ruffethereal1904 That sounds like a nice introduction cutscene to a video game. lol
I always thought of them as mercenaries. Like, soldiers for hire type deal. It makes sense since they're paid by people to do quests.
@@SergioLeonardoCornejo I've always enjoyed the villainous potential of a Hero that seeks name recognition above all, to the point of hiring a PR team, forcing countless imperiled people to spread word or else, and ruthlessly hunting down detractors.
Interesting video Shad, as usual. I always wonder how the economy of some fantasy worlds works, and if some monsters might become endangered species and then protected!
It's really hard to imagine that fish and shells were poor man's food once... The biggest catastrophic events for wildlife were AFAIK, the bronze age, the renaissance, and the industrial revolution. For instance, Basel is said to have lost 90% of the fish population and the majority of species in only a few decades.
On the other hand, already in the 16th century, the role of Forester appeared. They imported game from the mediterranean and planted trees even in north Germany in order for nobles to be able to hunt again...
I've always wonder this too. In every campaign I've gone in adventurers would get really rich and just spend a exorbitant amounts in small villages. In reality I could see this creating a Mansa Musa effect. I could see nobles and monarchs either trying to enlist these heroes just for economical gains or maybe even hunt them down.
As for the endangered monster act I see historically people didn't really pay attention to them until they were gone. Wooly mammoths, African forest elephant, and many European wolf species for example were pretty much exterminated rather unceremoniously. Not to say you couldn't have a group of druids and or rangers going out of their way to protect them. Or maybe even create farming attempt especially if they have value to them.
@@edi9892 I still find it hard to believe Lobsters used to be prisoner/slave/servant food. Servants used to be fed such a heavy amount of them that it started to appear in contracts how many times they could be fed it.
@@RoseKindred speaking of prawns, lobster, etc. I find it hilarious how disgusted people are of the concept of eating insects to the point that some states outright banned it, when lobsters are clearly maritime insects...
@@edi9892 Not insects, they’re crustaceans, they share a common ancestor, but they’re their own thing, it’s like saying a turtle is an amphibian.
Personally, I feel that having a guild of adventurers, particularly a guild that is willing to hire outsiders passing through, still makes a lot of sense. You need to have people go out and deal with larger threats further away from the city or village, and it's preferable to do so before the city or village is being directly threatened. You're right in that a certain majority of the adventurers would be a bit more cutthroat and less honorable, but with the backing of a guild that promises a reward equal to the danger and difficulty of the quest, there's little chance of such people becoming quite so dangerous to ordinary folk, especially given that they would need to keep at least a somewhat good reputation with the locals if they want to *stay* in the guild.
Not only that, but the guild would mostly be hiring either individual or small groups of mercenaries. Such groups would lack the power and numbers to cause any kind of real damage if they went rogue. I doubt they'd be hired in massive groups unless there was a full-scale war/battle happening. And even then, the town wouke just request troops from neighbouring towns and cities. If the guild is situated in a rather populated area with solid trade routes, support is even more likely to come
The guild could even develop into an armory, holding weapons and armor for such occasions.
Might want to check out the Bracer guild from the Trails series of CRPGs.
The thing is, why would there be a guild doing these functions, instead of a state authority? The closest historical analogue to what you describe would be state sponsored expeditions. This niche would be first filled by the state because of their existing systems of revenue (they can pay with taxes from an entire area threatened by the monster instead of a single village), intel (nation-wide talent pool, preexisting literate administration staff), and they even have incentives (a monster such as you describe would pose a threat to more than just one village).
So instead of seeing adventure guilds pop up, you'll just see the state step in to fill that role.
@@lekhakaananta5864 I would imagine that the local guilds are either sponsored or created by a central government, whenever one is present, but left to run their own operations so long as things are kept under control. Ruling a nation would be difficult enough without the added difficulty of controlling an organized group of adventurers and constantly supplying them with new quests. So, while in essence acting of its own accord, the guild would in fact very likely be a state administration anyway.
It really does depend on the context. Local heroes and town guards and stuff make sense as being common, I would say that the reason the stories tend to follow the traveling adventuring group is because they are usually going to make for a more engaging story than the local champion who faces monsters that he's used to fighting. The idea of a traveling adventurer inherently needs some sort of motivation specifically for those reasons outlined - people would tend to prefer to stick close to home, so they must have some strong reason if they are set to risk their life traveling to unknown lands. Or maybe they're a bard who just is traveling to get good profits from places that haven't heard his stories before. Or a Chaotic aligned person who simply likes the freedom. Not to say you couldn't make a great story based in a small village where the biggest threats are goblins, just that it would be a different scale than the high fantasy that you expect. It would need to be more heavily focused on character relationships with the locals and stuff.
Storytelling is also why I would expect to see them as more of the "ragtag bunch of misfits" than the shifty mercenary. The reason why the party we follow tend to be more righteous is because that's what people want to experience more than a morally dubious group - though we do still see those types of stories.
One of my favorite ways to contextualize the stereotypical fantasy adventurer, which I used in my own D&D world, was contextualizing them as couriers or long-distance messengers. Specifically, the world I made had a period only a few centuries prior where monster populations were SO widespread and dangerous that inter-city trade and communication ground to a halt. And during this period, some individuals dedicated themselves to traveling across the monster-infested countryside to carry letters and/or cargo from one city or town to another, without dying along the way. And those people, while technically mercenaries, became became more recognized as couriers for hire. As time passed and their role became more integral to socioeconomics, they centralized into a guild (the Courier's Society), with local lodges and administrative/support staff and an entire internal economy. Despite the wilderness being a fair bit safer than it used to be, they're still around as something of a holdover, having since expanded their business into slaying REALLY dangerous monsters, guarding archeologists, collecting rare materials, or even fighting in wars (though they're hardly cheap, so only nobles or really-important merchants can afford to use their services). What started as a badass postal service, has since changed into a mercenary guild with international respect and clout.
tl;dr: In my experience, it really doesn't take much to bring the fantasy adventurer into a realistic setting. All you have to do is insert a monetary reason to fight and travel. Where there's profit to be gained, SOMEONE will go chasing it. ^^
I'm gonna borrow this one day.
@@thatrandomeliteultra1158 By all means! ^^
@@autumnteien8672 thank you
I've seen some fantasy treat adventures as a type of Jack-of-all-trades freelancer. They might do a lot of monster slaying and dungeon exploration, but they are not above doing odd-jobs, like helping out on a farm, lending their crafting skills, or training the local militia.
Of course, this brings up the possibilities of adventures more specialized in specific fields, adventures that have become so successful that they no longer accept low paying odd-jobs, or adventures who only take odd-jobs as they themselves are not talented for combat.
Adventurer is a vague generalized thing kinda like scientist but both can come in a variety of types with different roles, talents, specializations and having more specific titles that they use that better identify their specific talents and specializations
Odd jobs are also a good way to earn peoples trust in a new area. Most people are more amiccable to established hard workers.
Medieval fantasy backpackers, basically.
yeah, like if dragons are real and hard to defeat, then specialists should focus only on that. Don't send a Dragon Slayer on an escort-through-bandit-territory quest. It's a waste of his skill set and needlessly risks his life.
One thing about going on adventures is that in most settings, it is by far the fastest way to gain power. In most games, a wizard killing monsters for a few months will gain more power and spells than a wizard who spends a decade studying in a tower. This is mostly for game design purposes, but I think the risk/reward system of deadly fights equalling more gains has cool implications to world-building.
Tbf that largely comes down to setting. For example: in my setting it isnt the whole slaying monsters thing that makes you gain power faster. Its not like every wizard could go out and learn things that way. Pcs are special. Theyre a special mix of talent, daring and...various other things. In short, theyre able to quickly learn their trade becuase they themselves are kind of a perfect mixture of all the different things that adventurers aspire to.
There are npc adventurers that the pcs might meet, ones that might even have years of successful monster hunting, and yet almost none of them are going to be higher than level 5 (or its equivalent cr)
Just make sure you put in the right metaphysics. Many people would be uncomfortable with adventurers who get stronger by eating the souls of monsters, but adventurers who take slain beings' mana are a lot more socially acceptable (and also have an easier time dividing the spoils).
I feel like adventurers are the fighter for the need where a royal knight or army is a bit to much or those are needed elsewhere.
I really like the guild system because of this it just makes sense for it to be made a big job.
But mostly for Pokemon mystery Dungeon.
Plus adding to the state / region into the guild influence making each guild branks different from one these other. Having different rules base off the location you find the guild and what rules that the location government can't restrict the party or uses on the guild. How much percentage does the guild take out of your pay and split it with the government. I would see the guild job as a request that would be send you by the people or government. Guild council leader have influence over things. Like the guild's head council leader of magic, alchemy, mercenary, historian / scholar, hunter, merchant, government and so on. Each guild counsel leader are specialized and influence the adventure guild from being out of control for each kingdom.
Sherlock Holmes had a case where a nobleman went into a bar and vanished. Examining evidence he was suspected murdered by a beggar there but the police also suspected the barkeeper and his assistants being involved. Holmes suggested rather than arresting more people without evidence he would go in undercover to find more info. This is the kind of situation where non-professionals and adventurers can be useful...
"Hmm... On second thought, I won't pay you."
Mercenaries: *aggressively liquidates your assets*
A few good shows that I feel do a good job of representing how adventurers would influence daily life are Danmachi, Grimgar, Goblin Slayer, and (early) Fairy Tale. All three of these shows have guild based adventurers, and I feel do a good job of showing how a society that has a well established caste of adventurers would affect the daily life and economy of their world. Fairy Tale and Danmachi do a good job of showing how an economy would be structured around people who do this sort of thing with quest boards and shops for magic items, and Grimgar and Goblin Slayer do a wonderful job of showing how dangerous the life of an adventurer is.
Fairy Tail*
The unruly kind of people getting attracted to the job is a pretty good point.
I always thought of adventurers as mercenaries, with the Adventurer's Guild basically being a job center
Pretty much, just they aren't as cut throat and horrible people because there isn't any betrayal for more money. There will be that type but there will also be plenty of honest people or glory seekers looking to kill the strongest monsters.
@@atk9989 In some RPG computer games (like Arcanum) it's basically for you to decide if you are going, to be honest, or extort money and kill innocent people.
Funny enough, the Lost Mine of Phandelver mini-adventure that comes with the D&D starter kit does a great job of giving a historically viable explanation for the party being adventurers. At the start of the module, the part are NOT adventurers yet, but merely hired hands to assist with an archaeological discovery being partly funded by a wealthy knight.
I've never played any official modules, but it makes sense that this would be the very first adventure that new players are supposed to be introduced to DnD with.
Perfect for explaining why your characters are actually adventurers.
Funny enough, I had done something similar to the local mercenary group in my world called “Hunters” and it is quite similar to what you said. Most of them are shady people that kill the monsters/protect the villages or towns around their base of operations. The thing is, why would you pay someone for services they haven’t provided? So they have to hunt first, then they get paid. And even if they can try to extort extra money, remember, there are other people as strong or stronger than them, so they have to be careful not to over extend or maybe the local government will send the army or even better, another group of Hunters after them.
I think one area where the idea of an adventurer's guild in the way it crops up in a lot of fantasy anime is a relatively realistic way to accomplish a few tasks:
1) It could help to cut down on the potential corruption of powerful adventuring parties by having a centralized organization that oversees their activities and makes them answerable to an authority. Such a guild might also ensure that the ones that have the better interest of society in mind are the ones that rise to power and fame by giving them missions and resources that allow them to steadily build power, meanwhile if someone shows early signs of having a problematic personality, they might be given a mission that puts them in over their heads, or alternatively be denied access to missions that might enable them to accrue more power.
2) It would raise the survivability of the profession, as in a world with hundreds of different kinds of dangerous monsters, if you don't find some way to share information about specific powers like a poison breath or fire claws and specific weaknesses, like a troll's regeneration slows down if you burn them or undead seem to be harmed by holy powers, then more adventurers will die because they don't know what they are walking into, even if there was another adventurer they might have crossed paths with who might have been able to tell them this stuff. Having an organization that collects information about monsters and ensures that the people sent out to fight them are sufficiently prepared makes sense, like know thy enemy and all that.
3) Having a place you can go to request help if your village is being raided by goblins or is being plagued by a manticore or whatever also makes a certain amount of sense, because if your local champion isn't up to the task, and there isn't a wandering band of mercenaries conveniently near by, being able to go to a centralized location where adventurers are known to congregate and receive missions would be incredibly useful. Additionally, if you have a particular use for monster parts, like say the poison sack of a cockatrice or the talon of a roc is a useful ingredient for a potion you want to make or something, then having an organization of professional monster hunters you can commission to go and get you some would be a very valuable connection to have as a researcher or a craftsman.
4) In a world full of supernatural pests and threats it makes sense that somebody might think to organize a group to go out and thin the population of surrounding monsters to make the area safer, in a fairly similar way that hunting boards have historically thinned out problematic species that get overpopulated in the real world.
Such a guild would appeal to people from all walks of life, as a poor commoner might be willing to take some risk and get their hands dirty if it means having some extra coin in the pocket, a hero type might see this as a way to protect their loved ones and keep people safe, a religious type might see this as their holy duty, a noble might see this as a way to increase their power/wealth/influence, a merchant might see this as a way to gather skills/information/connections that they can use to conduct their trade more safely and effectively, a scholar might see this as a way to study the magics and monsters that fill the world and a place to share information to further their research.
I fully believe that while not every civilization in such a world would form such an organization, but I do believe that those that do form would be successful, and then the concept would probably spread as either the organization grows to have branches in other areas, or as other areas learn of the success of this organization at making the land safer and the lives of everyone easier, they would attempt to adopt similar methods of sharing information and resources as part of a centralized organization.
What I am kind of missing in the comments is the fact that most of these have abilities.
Abilities which they can not yet fully understand or use.
Finding someone who is capable of teaching you or searching for this knowledge would be a fairly strong incentive. Without this knowledge they are of minor use for the village (capable of dealing with one or two monsters at once). But if they manage to be trained. They might be able to defend against minor armies.
I could even imagine the village scrapping together what they can to send the hero on the long and dangerous road to the main city.
And as stories usually progress it goes down from there. But the hero can't come back without the power or he and his family loses their honor...
See. Simple to have an struggling but fairly pure hero in a magic world...
Even a local noble who is in charge of an area could put up the bounty. Either as part of their duties to protect the area or as a cost of do business in order to keep their lands profitable, sort of like going after bandits and other troublemakers.
Having special powers that are present danger for the person or/and everyone around them (unless trained and learned how to properly control) is also a strong incentive.
Or having patrons that support these people, but also organize studies abroad for them.
I have the feeling that most of them wouldn't intentionally choose the profession but accidentally land in the profession and then think it's a lot of fun once they found their group of adventurers.
... or the only teacher to be found demands a contract of our hopeful hero! Now they find themselves following orders they may not agree with, perhaps gaining a reputation for such, when all they wanted was the strength to serve their homeland!
This is fun. I love Shad's fantasy videos
Aye people seem to forget level 1 pc's in DND are already exceptional characters within their community.
another type of mission for "adventurers" would most likely be to brave into the unknown wilderness and map out locations people would be willing to pay for, like mines or springs or even well protected spots that would be good to settle a village on.
One reason I can think of for long range wanderer style adventuring, in both fantasy and non-fantasy settings, is exploring. Not solving problems per sé, though that could happen, but just general travel for contacting new peoples making maps, finding new resources etc.
I can imagine a king, group of nobles, religious leader or a merchants guild funding small scale expeditions for this. Like newly accesible lands that were recently discovered, borders that opened to newcomers. Even if the lands are distsnt rather than unknown, someone needs to check up on them once in a while.
In the 1700's US, various pelts and furs were in such demand that some men would leave their farms and wander for months, hunting until they had all the pelts their animals could carry. A similar situation would provide a fine excuse to have a tough, frontier type wander into an adventure.
Adol in the Ys series is an "adventurer" who basically is an explorer. He isn't funded by anyone though; he goes out seeking adventure for the fun of it.
In my campaign world, two continents settled a third, which had no "sapient" life on it (just like, animals and dumb monsters and dinos and stuff). Each is trying to explore it before the other and thus has equal claim. I've found it avoids the indigenous morality problem. Can't help the environmentalists, though, lol.
I love how Shad, in these videos, brings up almost all possible information points about a topic and explains how it'll work in many different kinds of role playing styles and stories.
I've such fond memories of Dragonlance... might have to go back and read them again. I've always treated adventurers and mercenaries as shadier individuals in my own books. Even the nicer, more kind-hearted sort aren't above throwing their weight around to get paid for whatever deeds they accomplish. Being the golden nice guy seems like it wouldn't last long in the adventurer/mercenary environment. You'd think they'd either get stabbed in the back or die in poverty.
I always feel you can trace the "Adventerer" archetype back to the idiom - "Have sword, will travel"
Yeah, but why? Don't just take for granted that the archetype makes sense. Unless the character is a moron, he will have a reason to leave the comfort of home, and a really good reason to live by the sword, which can very easily go wrong in many ways. The point is, justifying that kind of choice takes some very rare circumstances. Do you know anyone who lives like that - an independent, traveling, armed violence-doer? I don't. I know soldiers, but that's different. For "have sword, will travel" to be believable, you have to think really hard about when such a life would be worth choosing, as Shad tried to do in this video.
Whatever happened to the romantic adventurer who would slay dragons with a oaken pair of nunchakus?
@@davidhoracek6758 "Unless the character is a moron, he will have a reason to leave the comfort of home, and a really good reason to live by the sword, which can very easily go wrong in many ways."
So... Teens and young adults seeking glory, full of youthful exuberance, a sense of immortality, and stupidity? What about joining the military, is that rare?
A good reason can help, sure, but people have done dumber things for dumber reasons. It's just easier to make those people bit characters and sidekicks.
It exemplifies the "Adventurer" spirit. It was a shallow, self-explanatory comment. I wasn't claiming to provide any remarkable form of insight lmao You've overthought it, have a drink, a smoke, a shag or even a wank. Life isn't always so serious.
@@AusSP and second and third sons in general as it was eldest that usually took over father lands busines
Shad, there were a LOT of "expeditions" in the ancient and medival times from european kingdoms. Bussiness expeditions to asia and africa, military expeditions to turkey, middle east and later into india and america. During a longer journey, it is more advantageous to travell in a group (even by joining one already existing, like bussiness caravan pendeling between two locations). Hell, into our midleeuropean culture is baked a custom, where EVERY artisans protege, after he is proclaimed a full MASTER of the craft by his own tutoring master, oved to went out on kind of "expedition" around the surrounding countries, to 1) advertize the level of craft in our country by showing and 2) to hopefully do some of the "industrial espionage" by seeing how the craft is done abroaght. Usually he returns for a woman and family and sets a shop in the place he lived, or wants to live. And those were "midle income" people at best...
There were carpenters, masons and other tradesmen that moved from site to site, country to country to ply their trade - the distinctive marks they put on what they made have been traced all over Europe. Here you work on building a castle, when that's complete, you pick up your tools and join many of your fellow workers on the trek to a neighbouring burrough or country where you work on a cathedral, learning new styles and fashions. These people were highly sought after, highly paid and very well-travelled.
In a world where monsters exist, I feel like "Drill day" should be very common. A day of the week where whatever watch captain/local war veteran puts every able-bodied individual through basic training with whatever weapons they have (Spears, anyone?). This way, "adventurers" would only be needed for solving complex or more dangerous tasks.
Basically how real life worked in pre-industrial reality. The more organized town militias would have training days to be prepared for warfare. I think there's still value in something like that today, it might help soften some of the nastier sociopolitical divisions in modern society if everyone was shown that their neighbors are willing and able to protect each other despite their differences.
It's more like sending these adventures first so they can die no one would blame the government if they die first. And spare their loyal knights on a better job or use them when only necessary.
When i run D&D campaigns. I always do it like.
The Kingdom's army/town guard keep the towns safe, and patrol the roads enough that most things avoid them (though you get the occasional wandering or bandits not scared off by patrols)
But, rounding up 500 guys to go and hunt tdown every wild Wyvern that starts causing trouble just wouldn't be feasable.
So bounties are put up for anyone to take a crack at. So Mercenaries and Armies keep the towns and roads safe from most things.
And Adventurers are known for mopping up the few things that attack despite those, and of course for delving into ruins and things from before the armies kept the monsters away
I believe England required any freeman with a certain level of income or property to own and practice weekly with longbows. At least as far back as Henry the Eighth. If memory serves they only had to own 4-5 arrows for the practice though.
You might see the transition from "local champion/group of heroes" to "traveling adventurer registered with the guild" when looking at a fantasy city rather than a village. If we assume monsters or some other type of threat that heroes are needed for (rather than the local lord's standing army), eventually the number of them grows to a point of needing some sort of organization. If merchant caravans need specialist heroes to escort them, that's plenty of reason for a hero to adventure from place to place, and there could also be a situation where the more experienced adventurers travel to the wilder frontier areas of the land in search of bigger payouts.
The main thing that seems to set adventurers apart from soldiers or guards is that they have a specialised skill set. If a lord or other organization has a problem they can't solve with an army, and instead need a specialist to take care of, that starts to sound more like a detective, or spy. So the standard adventurer might be more of an "agent" type for a larger group.
The biggest part of the hero adventurer archetype though, is the freedom to make choices and make a difference in the world. A small, powerful group of free agents who regularly use violence to enforce their ideals is an existential threat to any power structure (government, church, guild, etc), so it seems unlikely that the classic traveling fantasy adventurer would ever be a regular career. Possibly tolerated in times of extreme strife, but likely given the choice of swearing to a lord or being executed most other times.
That sounds like an excellent adventure seed. Your party outlevels everyone that the local noble can throw at you from his own forces, but he can constantly harass you, as long as you are in his domain. Additionally, this behavior is extremely common in the nobility in settled regions, making it hard to make a profit, or have downtime.
While a nobles forces might be massively insufficient to take you on, he could possibly hire your rivals and enemies to take you out. If he only sought to drive you out, he could destroy any place that gives you shelter, or buys your loot.
This gives many options, becoming a revolutionary, leaving, just assassinating enough of the nobles family to force a dynastic change, falsely swearing to him, genuinely swearing to him, and many other options
I really think adventurers fit well with the modern fantasy concept of dungeons as living monster spawning machines which can be farmed for resources to fulfill a civilization's needs. Its also interesting to explore what these dungeons are and why they do this. Some ancient civilization created them to terraform or supply the needs of a planet etc.
In OD&D you wandered in a points of light world. Civilization isn't the norm, the wilderness is. Civilization is one stronghold and the five hexes surrounding it. A region map can have a number of these strongholds on it. The rest is wilderness, filled with monsters, tribes, small hamlets and buggery. Civilization only happens when someone beats a hex into submission and plants a fort on it. Either the large nations are off-map, or you are standing on top of fallen ones. There is no nation-states and empires on the map.
As far as I'm concerned, adventurers and mercenaries are pretty much the same thing. The job is what makes it different.
If you're tasked with the protection of a traveling caravan from town A to town B, you're a mercenary. Regardless if you're killing monsters along the way.
If you're hired by a private entity to go on a long journey to, let's say, find the Holy Grail in some Japanese guy's backyard then you're probably an adventurer.
I'd like to think that the word Adventurer is just that, a word. Freelancers, sell sword, hired muscle, mercenary... They're just names.
Adventurers are high key Free Lancers in IRL to be honest.
yeah. Societies throughout history loved the concept, throughout many different eras.
Before Medieval Adventurers there were champions of Greek and North myth. Afterwards, we got things like the swashbuckler pirates of the Age of Sail, Ronin Samurai, and the Wild West Gunslinger.
Courier. Postman. Messenger. Delivery boy.
Same job. Subtle distinctions.
I think the idea of the adventurer is actually a lot older than we give it credit. It's an ancient motif of the knight's errant, Jason and the Argonauts, Achilles and the Myrmidons and the Indo-European concept which probably all of these derived from the Kyros. It'll probably stay with us for forever or as long as our civilization exists
Well technically they can be called as -Murder hobo- Mercenary
😆
They're mercenaries, but hey adventurer sound better than soldier of fortune when you're talking to your next employer.
A common trope for fantasy economy is that monsters when killed will yield a magic crystal that was in its innards.
The more powerful the monster, the more potent the crystal.
Those crystals are used to power magical devices and/or big spells.
Other parts of the monsters can be used as materials for alchemy or improving the craft of armors and weapons.
15:19 You do have one kind of mercenary that is at least not as commonly vicious as others, and that is the bounty hunter. In fact, this is what a lot of players in D&D wind up unintentionally playing.
Aye, just because you're good at fighting people
doesn't mean you're good at fighting monsters
doesn't mean you're good at solving puzzles
doesn't mean you're good at finding treasure...
That's why you travel as a party with different people having different skills
@@vannederynen1 But just because you're a good monster-fighter doesn't mean your party's thief will automatically survive a fight. A task force with one representative from several different career fields isn't guaranteed to be effective. Diversity isn't a cure-all.
That's why Shad suggested entire parties with specialties, such as monster parties, treasure-hunting parties, etc. The king or local lord could rotate teams in and out as the mission changed, rather than sending in a team with just one good monster-fighter, or just one good puzzle-solver.
@@texasbeast239 that's what clerics who can heal and resurrect the dead are for
A good example of a good story about a village seeking aid from "adventurers" would be Akira Kurosawas movie the 7 Samurais.
Also one way to play adventurers could be as a smaller scout group for a larger expedition/organisation.
One good if small example of what could drive a local adventurer was mentioned as a small and brief conversation with a drunk man in Baldurs Gate 1, he is angry that his son died and blames Adventurers for "putting ideas in his head when he should have stayed home on the farm" only for a friend of his to argue that the boy had been to much of a firebrand to ever settle down as a farmer and that the new plough he had bought had been payed for by gold earned clearing out Kobolds from the local area.
it is a very short and easily missed thing but it has stuck in my head for years.
Most settings with adventurers, especially from asia, have governing adventure guilds that regulate adventuring type works, gathers contracts and distributes these as quests to their adventurers. In some cases they even train prospecting new candidates and usually have a ranking system so Nooby mcnobody doesnt just pick the quest to slay the red emperor dragon of mount uberdoom on his first day.
Considering the guilds of our real world in the past this could also be a way of how adventuring could be regulated. Ofcourse the system is prone to abuse and such a guild would hold tremendous power. Also the reason for people to become adventurers might be based simply on prestige and potential riches. In most of these settings adventurers are basically monster hunters in anything but names. And in most of these settings monster corpses are very valuable for alchemists and magicians and craftsmen. On the other side a local lord would most likely be more busy protecting his borders from invasions by monsters or other human realms then to send his men into the monster invested wildlands on a whacky goose chase that might result in nothing but dead soldiers. In come the adventurers that are by nature mostly disposable... no ones gonna shed a tear for some random mercenaries disapearing in some manticores belly.
But yeah adventurers would most likely form organisations to regulate the business just like the craftsguilds of yore did in the past. Not only for logistics but also for political power to make sure that its most powerfull members wont be used as tools of war, nor turn into petty tyrants.
guilds were such a wonderful thing. the same potential for corruption as unions, but significantly better at actually preserving the industries and workers. and what's more, the only ones who ever operated a non-corrupt system of disaster or health insurance.
@@KairuHakubi They where also super secretive when it came to crafts and how to do things. And had severe economic power. If you pissed off a guild, you would not get any work in that location anymore
@@riptors9777 exactly. lots of good but also potentially bad. but ultimately good for the industry and good for the economy.
The village "champion" did exist during feudal times. Studies of graves of low level infantry show shoulder injuries from wrestling from years before. So when a village was required to call up levies, it appears the same people went off every time. And they continued to train unofficially during more peaceful times.
For your traditional roaming adventurers, you need a setting where monsters are common enough that a living can be made wiping them out but not so common that strong armed forces are required at all times for settlements to even exist. There might be law enforcement or militia on hand but they wouldn't fight off orc hordes every day.
Some of the better written stories involving adventurers present them more as professional monster exterminators than explorers, There are even a few that play up the role of an adventurers guild in vetting and organizing adventurers to ensure the work gets done and as few people as possible are killed doing it. It seems like something that would realistically happen so that there are not unknown heavily armed groups just wandering freely from settlement to settlement.
11:00 In my DnD game, travelling is generally done in large caravans. You pay the caravaneer guild, they hire guards, and they protect the caravan. The fare is generally a few sp per trip.
The pay is 5sp per day, 1gp for foe defeated, payed upon reaching a destination (the caravan leader does not carry the gold with them for security reasons)
Not every caravan arrives safely, but it is a lot safer then travelling alone.
Of course a rich person could buy a wagon and hire personal escort instead.
I mean in overlord they have a very interesting way of looking at it.
In Overlord, there is a serious problem with hostile monsters and the like, so they hire adventurers to go and kill them. The Adventurers are essentially anti-monster mercenaries paid per kill to keep the monster population down.
And because killing is the only way to really level up combat skills past a certain point, it leads to adventurers being excessively powerful. So much so that there are gentleman's agreements between different Kingdoms and principalities not to use adventurers in military conflicts because it would lead to an arms race of adventurer-soldiers.
These adventurers are really adventurers in name only and rarely go too far out of their way unless hired to do so by a wealthy client.
Examples in the show include a pharmacist hiring a band of adventurers for escort to a remote frontier village for a fixed price. Another example being the discovery of a dungeon, in which a wealthy lord hired several bands of adventurers to explore it, for a small share of the loot. But these would remain rare examples of adventurer work, as most work would consist of sallying forth into the hinterland, finding something hostile, killing it and the bringing back proof of the kill for a bounty.
Is this a book series or a show? Curios to learn more.
@@RatBrain Actually both, it is a light novel, manga and anime by the same name.
I read only the books and don’t know if it was told in anime, but in books it was literally pointed out that “adventurers” are just anti-monster mercenaries, which may do additional tasks. They very rarely go on exploring the world. While the “adventure guild” is created as an independent organisation, they are still bound to local laws and can’t avoid state influence. As an armed organisation they can pose threat to the higher classes. So every guild in different countries is basically a "separate organisation". Only Ainz tried to make “adventurers” truly go on adventures and explore the world, by fully absorbing the guild into the state. Basically, his idea is “The state protects its people from monsters and other threats. Adventurers should explore the world and do agency work.”
It's still a pretty flimsy arrangement.
All it would take is for one faction to believe they have stronger adventurers than the other factions for the whole thing to break apart.
No faction would willingly lose a war just because they're afraid of a future arms race.
@@mariusdragoe2888 There is another problem: what if some adventurer or group of adventurers decides they want to be the new nobles/rulers?
Basically the old question what happens when superman demolishes the white house, but the army has had the chance to create their own superman but didn't...
When you were talking about a local champion protecting their home because they have ties there, you forgot to mention the "Adventurer" whose home town was attacked and everything destroyed. So they travel helping towns.They wouldn't be doing it for money or glory. They would be doing it to try and prevent what happened to their home town. It would be similar to Goblin Slayer. He isn't killing goblins for money or glory. He is killing them to prevent what happened to his sister from happening to others.
I like how you think, yeah, while it may be rare, their are people who would become adventurer's because they suffered a tragedy like that, while they still need money, they are not so attached to it to obsess over it, which I think makes them more effective, they are going to be the most determined to see the job done
That's a pretty successful trope. Batman. Spider-Man. Genos from "One-Punch Man". The Lone Ranger. Samurai Jack. Blade. Van Helsing. Conan, sort of. (They're not all KNOWN for wandering, but all have been known to travel to an adventure.)
Yeah, no, people in real life are selfish and won't easily put themselves in life threatening situations like those.
Ah, right -- "my personality and calling in life is a trauma response". Pretty plausible, to be honest.
@@IanGarris yeah, many people do thing's because of trama, some productive, and some destructive, either way, trauma is one hell of a motivator if you think about it
Bounty Hunting and mercenaries would be incredibly common. Adventurers can be a really strong pest control service, turning in fingers,ears, teeth, or heads of various monsters for coin and gear. These adventurers can be of any morality since they're a man with a craft. I'd say this definitely supports Ranger type combatants who ambush and trap monsters. The Adventurers Guild is about keeping territorial boundaries and helping fill in gaps for emergencies. These pest control Adventurers can become home town heroes, or decide that being a travelling mercenary suits them more.
I would recommend a Manga Series called "Dungeon Meshi", the series has some brilliantly detailed explanations for dungeon ecosystems as it plays out and a lot of the concepts in it for how dungeons work and it fills in a lot of gaps in the concept of being an adventurer as a profession, without spoiling too much the dungeons themselves have a reason to make themselves profitable to adventurers.
they could be mercenaries that do adventuring as a pastime when there is no one hiring for professional soldiers
edit: oh it was mentioned in the video!
I feel like some important and informative parallels were missed. The frontiersman, trapper, and whaler. These individuals were often independent or small operations. They were about as close as you can get to the dnd fantasy adventurer in my opinion. Enjoyed the video as always though. 👍
I thought about that as well, people who hunt monsters for the material in order to sell.
A lot to mages, apothecaries, etc, I guess.
Yeah, if monster parts are valuable you'll have an economy built around them. Doesn't have to be dragonbone for magic swords. In the Stormlight Archives, one of the primary uses of chasm fiend gemhearts is magically transmuting rocks into food.
@@lloydgush theres historical wars fought over pelt trade
@@TheJarric There's gang wars fought over shit and piss.
Imagine magical shit!
lol!
@@lloydgush opium wars brought down china
personally i thought more of a local guild which centralizes the requests of the village/city folk and possibly also buy and sell monster parts for the adventurers. then there's also the possibilitie of dungeons or larger monster nests which can be used or be attacked for a longer period of time than say a nest of 20 goblins. the existence of these would also remove the need to move away from your starting/home town because you could just go deeper into the dungeon/monster nest. of course there would still be normal "free" monster just out there which would enable adventurers to pendle between locations through, like you said, protecting these caravans.
I'm particularly fond of the adventurer guild. A rich organization that offers bounties or quests for adventurers to complete at either the request of the organization or an outsider paying them. It sort of works as a way for the customer to know they're getting their money's worth compared to hiring a random guy off the street that's good with a sword. You could easily put an adventurers guild hall in every major city and have them regularly send one or two adventurers to smaller villages for a set time to just help out for a set amount of money upon their return.
I think one of the main differences between historical adventure and tomb raiding and fantasy adventure that would keep the rich benefactor from being common is many or most of the artifacts recovered would be worth more to keep than to hand over for money. These would be magic weapons or armor or possibly a ritual site that grants magic powers.
I think shad’s example of a group of town protectors can also become a type of adventure’s guild. As their renown grows, people from farther away come with requests or want to join the group as adventurers. Maybe something similar is occurring in a mother nearby town, and that forms a rival guild. Eventually you have a huge network of guilds that take on requests all over the world, with bigger guilds having stronger members and higher prices
As much as I liked this video, I think there's more to be explored here:
If it's a world populated by monsters in every forest, we wouldn't have adventurers per say, but armed guards that may be hired by traveling merchants to protect them for one leg of the journey till they reach an outpost, and then so on.
If it's a world that has a lot of treasure dungeons occupied by monsters, we would have a "wild west" period in the beginning, where all the easy dungeons are raided by low tier adventurers.
Eventually only the high risk dungeons would be left. This would give rise to archeological style expeditions, which would be financially backed by a rich aristocrat. He/she would be the one organizing different skill sets by hiring from various guilds, and there would be a budget to reflect the funding. The guilds can be Academic(mages, historians) Craftsman(weapon and armor smiths, cobblers, tailors) and Warriors(Crossbowmen, Witchers)
The successful guilds would be the ones who have secondary sources of income, and the respected ones would monopolize the market to root themselves in this economic niche.
If there is a lot of local strife, with dark lords, vampire groups, civil wars, epidemics etc, that would be the one scenario where the cutthroat mercenary would thrive. They would come in small clans, and would be paid by local rulers to help get rid of the evil.
Shad I know you've touched upon all of the above, so I'm leaving this here in the hope that it will complement your video.
Sounds like you'd described an adventurer's guild, tbh.
I always thought that the most difficult thing of been an adventurer in medieval Europe would be travel from city to city. I mean, was not like “come on in; you’re welcome here”.
Shad called mercenaries out to be unreliable plunderers, which sometimes was true. Though honestly, that was also true for regular armies and sometimes even in their own territory.
There is a phase from ancient Greek that reads like: Justice is only a matter between equals. As the powerful do whatever they want and the poor suffer what they must. A group of peasant living peacefully is not the equal of an armed group passing by.
Man the fantasy fan art in the background is top tier!
There was this NSFW game that actually gave a good reason as to why adventuring parties exist.
Portals to random planes started appearing in a location in the planet. Those would appear and disappear seemingly at random, but they provided a lot of opportunity for gathering rare magic resources. Eventually a city formed near the portals due to them drawing activity, and people risk getting trapped in an alternate dimension fighting monsters unless they return before the portal closes.
The king's army regulates controls the city, and the adventuring and access to the portals is controled by a guild of mages that by studying them have an idea of when they might appear and what the other dimensions are.
The time-limited nature of the portals and the variety of the places they go through make it most suitable for mercenary types, as it's too high risk for a standard military. The high reward potential of finding magic crystals and getting rich in turn attract adventurers. So those alternate dimensions are mostly populated by adventuring parties scouting the place, foraging and travelling light in the search of treasure or capturing monsters unique to those dimensions to send to farms. The king maintains his control by taxing the portal guild, the guild gets rich by paywalling the access to the portals, and farmers get rich by placing bounties on certain species of monsters for them to tame.
And of course, there's also an arena where adventurers train and fight captured monsters for sport and entertainment.
I'm pretty sure it's okay to say its name.
@@whyjay9959 Portals of Phereon
@@CommissarLORDBernn Thanks. Seems interesting.
I have always like the idea of the local "adventurer's guild" which while similar to the "local champion" concept, might be based in some larger population center like a town or city and then be hired around to the local villages and country side to hunt down monsters, raiders, bandits, etc. So they can be a larger group which can operate out of a specific location, but work in a larger range than just a single town or village, and also allocate more or fewer people depending on the size of the job-- i.e. a few people to take out a medium-sized monster which has entered the area, or call out the whole guild to hold back a pack of raiders or what have you.
One thing to note that was missed in what gives rise to adventurers is centralisation.
Just as in our world mercenaries and more local solutions to threats was far more common in the borderlands or in areas where there was no reliable type of protection from the state (I am looking at you holy roman empire.)
Its a bit of a supply/demand thing. If the state takes care of the protection by sending out the army to kill or drive of the monsters at regular intervals there would be no need for mercenaries and adventurers as the state got it handled. But if the country is disorganised/corrupt or occupied with bigger problems like fighting the neighbour, then adventurers and mercenaries would start to crop up as people are willing to pay them either in money for the mercenaries or respect in the local community.
2:39 I love how Shad took a look at mid-evil fantasy role play, asked himself why would adventures adventure and the answer he came up with was 1) Dungeons, and 2) Dragons. 🥁
since you mention "Adventurer" being an occupation at 12:18 : In DnD settings, there actually are "adventurer's guilds" in which adventurers basically are small scale mercenaries. A Mercenary company you would hire to be part of an army, but an adventurer's guild you just offer a reward for ... killing those wolves who have been mauling the local sheep. And Adventurers look at those tasks and say "I can handle a few wolves, simple enough."
Great video; lots of stuff to think about while doing some fantasy worldbuilding.
Interestingly the world you’re describing sounds a bit like the late 19th century US frontier. It was post civil war so most men had some military experience. Some of them became sheriff of a town that would pay them to keep the peace in that town specifically. They would live in the town put down roots and maybe have a family. Some became US Marshals who had wider areas of responsibility like transporting prisoners from the small towns to courts or prisons, Hunting down outlaws and criminals outside of the towns or immediate territories. Then some men were closer to mercenaries getting hired by private companies (railroads, mines or companies like the Pinkertons) to protect the property of the company. Then you also had individuals who became bounty hunters chasing down criminals for reward money. All that’s before you get to the downright criminals of highwaymen, bandits and robbers. There’s room for all of these roles to exist in a medieval fantasy setting and all would require the adventurer skill set to one degree or another.
P.S. love your content Shad!
I was thinking the same thing or the lewis and clark expedition
“Why doesn’t everyone become an adventurer?”
“Two words, mortality rate.”
The defias brotherhood was such great "villains" in early wow since the whole reason they are the bad guys is because they rebuilt stormwind and build the fort guarding the dark portal and didn't get payed after all the work was done. You can easily say they are technically good guys and in a dnd setting its easy to make the adventure party side with the brotherhood ^^
When it comes to 'local' adventurers, I really like the way Danmachi handled Orario: since all of the monsters and magical items appear in this one place, all the people who want to become adventurers congregate here and the city is essentially run by the Adventurer's Guild. Honestly, I could see that happen in many medieval fantasy settings, where adventurers become so common and so powerful that it would make sense for them to just claim the land. What's the king going to do about it, who is he going to hire to take out the dragon slayers, god breakers and mythic item owners?
21:30 I actually think this sounds similar to a feudal system. The local lord's responsibility was to protect the land and in return the local peasantry paid a tithe. I don't think we would necessarily see adventuring guilds for a local town pop up as this protective roll was mostly fulfilled by the feudal system anyway. Of course there would be some differences as a world with monsters would probably be a more hostile world to your common person, but I don't know that it would be substantially different in the big picture of societal organization. Of course in the real world we did see mercenaries so I don't see why there wouldn't also be adventurers/mercenaries that would perhaps specialize in monster slayer (Witchers?), I just don't think that the adventuring guilds would take care of day-to-day defense.
Exactly. The biggest conundrum with Adventure Guilds is that the security services they provide would totally already be done by a government, if this were the real world. I don't see how they would pop up in the first place.
@@lekhakaananta5864 carthage they were merchant nation were you coud by youre way out of consription so they hired lot of mercs other woud be city states italy third conquistadors and privaters
@@lekhakaananta5864 Though what if larger kingdoms and empires are the reason adventuring guilds become a thing? Like they set up and fund these groups to act as hubs on their edge territories?
@@aquamarinerose5405 They already have armed forces. If you gave this task to a real world government they'll look at what they already have and go like "yeah ok deploy this military asset for this mission". They wouldn't come up with a completely new paramilitary organization for this.
This is a case where world-builders worked backwards. Yes you can sorta justify the existence of adventure guilds if you start with that assumption, but a historical analysis doesn't work like that.
@@lekhakaananta5864 I more meant like in Medieval Times or places loke the Roman Empire where/when information takes longer, Smaller Hubs that can scout talent and respond quickly to Monster Problems at a local level. Or at least act like the Avengers Civil War Superhero Registration thing was supposed to do. Register and keep adventurers in check as make sure sufficiently powerful adventurers can't just go make their OWN kingdom
In a world with monsters I would have always thought the local soldiers would basically be split into those who fight humans and those who fight monsters. Basically 2 forces paid for with taxes with 2 different specialities.
This is for bigger settlements and would offer a more reliable answer for those in power as you wouldn’t want to be heavily reliant on an outside force of ‘adventures’ who have little loyalty and what Lord, King or Queen would want someone else having a military force in their province/realm. You would expect them to then send detachments to the smaller towns and villages when necessary keeping scouts and a basic force where necessary.
If anything the fantasy adventurer would likely be considered a negative by anyone in power because who wants any strong opposition not under your own control acting in your lands?
A lord sure would want to keep an army loyal to him. But would he really want to pay for monster-slaying out of his own pocket, even when there are no monsters around?
@@kotarouinugami1745 No wouldn’t have thought so but I suppose it depends on the world and how much of a monster problem there is. In most fantasy worlds there never seem to be a drought, I guess monsters evolved to breed at an exponential rate to combat the fact they’re always being hunted. Essentially the response would be commensurate, but I imagine you’d always have a few guys who knew how to slay monsters even if you don’t have a full army, again. Depends on how long it would take to train people up to be able to respond to the relevant situation.
So a "local champion" tasked with defense becomes increasingly powerful as people give him land, to the point where he and his family become the "owners" of the land and are tasked with its defense, turning the people who live in it effectively his "servants"
Where have I seen this before...
You don't even need to go that far: Wealthy peasants had more land than other peasants (obviously) and hired poorer peasants to work on them. Unsurprisingly they weren't any kinder toward the people working their land than nobles were.
Shad, your mentioning Audible just reminded me of this. And, I'm guessing many who regularly keep up with your content would find this interesting too. Audible just released, within the last couple days, the first ever audiobook version of Michael Moorcock's _Elric of Melnibone_ series. Its been produced in two large parts, and the individual stories appear _chronologically_ (thank god). If you've never read the Elric Saga, do so! It is a staple in fantasy literature. As you read it, you'll see its influence _everywhere_ throughout the fantasy genre. You can, of course get the actual physical books and read those. But they can be pretty tricky to find. Either way, you won't regret checking this series out. Thought maybe some would appreciate the heads-up.
I think that the presence of monsters might change the historical tendency for mercenaries to be so cutthroat somewhat; historically they were paid for fighting and killing other human beings, which is going to have very particular psychological requirements/effects on people. When instead their role is primarily killing _nonhumans_ to protect _humans,_ that might make a difference.
I can think of a couple ideas that could/do explore the role of adventurers in a fantasy setting and have some basis in reality. The first would be the concept of the questing knight. Historically when you have a warrior cast like the medieval knight or even the samurai, something that's generational, you end up with people who are very good at doing their job, but who conversely become a huge problem during peacetime. Having a bunch of people sitting around who are both very good at killing and very bored has historically been let's say less-than-good for the common people around them. So naturally we invented ways to keep them busy like the tournament, which let them use their skill to obtain wealth and fame typically without looting and raping their own people. You also see the advent of codes of conduct like Chivalry and Bushido, which are sort of a social constraint to encourage less domestic violence, but I think these also lead into the eventual idea of the quest. By creating these social constraints you also inspire the idea of " I can be better than my peers ( and thus improve the perception of my station) by doing this non or less violent action". The idea of reclaiming or finding a lost holy relic or historic piece pops up in a number of cultures, and has at least some basis in reality. The other Adventurer idea that comes from this system is the idea of a "quest for honor". I think this pops up more in cultures that are built around a "shame" culture than the more modern western "guilt" culture. What I mean by that in this case is that the public perception of your honor is more important than your personal feelings of how honorable you are. Historic examples would be like Musashi in Japan, someone who is not concerned with financial gain but with the prestige that comes from being "the best". I think in a world with monsters, you would see this play out a bit differently. If you have something out there that is more of a challenge than an armed and skilled human, you have this incentive to kill it to say "This is now the benchmark you need to pass in order to compete with me". The final point I want to make is a bit different, and for this I really want to draw on ideas that are prevalent in things like anime. A lot of Japanese fantasies incorporate the idea of an incentive to being an adventurer that exists beyond financial reward: artificial augmentation of your skills or abilities. We kind of look down on this idea in the West as being a bit too videogamey to suspend disbelief. That aside, in a world that runs on magic it kind of makes a certain sense. Not all animes/mangas/light novels fully explore or even bother to explain this idea, so i'll use and example of one that does: "Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?". In that world adventurers are able to gain magical enhancements by forming a mutually beneficial contract with a deity. The humans get advanced powers and abilities and the gods get an agent able to carry out their will, as they are forbidden direct interference. The video game like stat block of skills and abilities, is a sort of interface that breaks down what the blessings of the gods provide in a way that the person receiving those blessings can understand. I think this makes sense for fantasy adventurer but obviously it has little basis in reality.
The last segments of your comment apply to our campaign. The four players accidentally became the Four Winds. Now they each have a custom title that expands their Background feature(s), with optional elemental upgrades to seek out. For example, the Psi Fighter orc can now enter the dreams of neutral or allied creatures to fight nightmares.
I’ll go back over your comment, because there’s probably something in it that can help tomorrow’s session. EDIT: I’m also in a long-running campaign, now high level, where we’re each becoming agents or champions of heroic gods. For me, Helm broke the curses off a +1 weapon and +1 armor because I got a Nat 20 Religion check after a prayer. Now the DM sometimes gives me signs from Helm, or extra flashy finishing blows for flavor. I just have to keep up the roleplaying and tactical thinking. Good times.
Dispossessed knights are the basis of medieval romance, a wanderer killing monsters and saving damsels to get a leige lord or sponsor.
ehm... actually when a profession becomes generational you tend to end up with people who are not very good at doing their job.
@@szarekhthesilent2047 That depends on how important such skills are for the continuation of your family. A family of knights is dependent on strength of arms, tactical knowledge in combat, and being generally knowledgeable on a wide variety of topics as they also tend to own small amounts of land that will not bring in a lot of money. If even one child is not up to par it can bring down the entire family in a single generation. The higher up the person the knight serves the worse this gets as their actions reflect on the person they are sworn to serve. It takes becoming purely ceremonial where they wont actually see combat that such families start degrading.
This is also why Noble families who only really need to manage large amounts of land and pay taxes tend to wind up having degradation relatively quickly, only solid math skills and understanding of politics and land management really matters. If the ancestors were really good at their job and have tons of money stashed away then it leads to the partying syndrome many descendants wind up having.
@@TankHunter678
or you simply promote the best soldiers by awarding them knighthood.
And when they die their holdings return to their liege (you).
In which case you end up
Like early knights.
Or it becomes generational, in which case you sometimes end up with people who cannot fight, or have little or average abilities in commanding.
And no, it wasn't necessarily their downfall.
That is kinda why tournaments were held, to help establish a standard skill in times of peace and to allow the professional and talented (but poor) showcase their skill and find themselves employment.
"A family of knights is dependent on strength of arms,"
That is why they had men.
The "lanze" being a common unit that was expected of a knight.
It's up to 20 men.
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanze_(milit%C3%A4rischer_Verband)
As those are hired based on skill, mostly, they were usually of decent skill.
" tactical knowledge in combat, and being generally knowledgeable on a wide variety of topics"
there was no formal tactical knowledge to be passed on to knights where I live.
And they certainly weren't expected to be (or famous for being) knowledgeable on a wide variety of topics.
Quiet the opposite.
"as they also tend to own small amounts of land that will not bring in a lot of money."
the work was done by the peasents. I have never heard of an instance when they were needing guidance from a knight to get their jobs done.
Most of the economic stuff was handled either by the "schulze" or, in particularly rich areas, by other employed professionals.
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulthei%C3%9F#Bedeutung_und_Funktion_in_der_Schweiz
Doing work like that (the "arrebeit") was considered very unbecoming of a knight's status.
They would hunt, speak justice and oversee the peasents when they were working off their time during the "Frondienst".
that's...kinda it.
Usually there was no need for political skill, unless they were Herzog or higher
"If even one child is not up to par it can bring down the entire family in a single generation."
Which didn't stop them from being bron as or becoming imbeciles and cripples.
Or from going easy on their military duties.
Or from being underequipped.
We know because the "Fürsten" and "Kaiser" here tried to counter that with laws (setting a standard for the minimum equipment that was expected, for instance.).
"This is also why Noble families who only really need to manage large amounts of land and pay taxes tend to wind up having degradation relatively quickly, only solid math skills and understanding of politics and land management really matters. If the ancestors were really good at their job and have tons of money stashed away then it leads to the partying syndrome many descendants wind up having."
That... sounds more like a modern problem to be honest...
I have never heard of partying syndrom for knights.
Maybe german knights were too poor (entirely possible, lol)?
Those that did inherit lands tended to become lazy.
Which is a very human tendency, as military equipment was very expensive and training (especially in long periods of peace) very pointless.
The bigger problem in Germany was, that the lands per knight became much smaller as time passed (due to being passed down to several sons, instead of the eldest inheriting it all), so there were a lot of "knights" who had either no lands, or lands with very little revenue.
The former tended to find themselves employment by working for wealthier knights, become monks or mercenaries, the latter would often turn into Raubritter (basically bandits/thugs. just with much scarier equipment, more experience, better training and numbers.) or also become mercenaries.
One word: Mercenary
Sellswords.
Swords for hire. Ahem--axes--axes for hire.
@@texasbeast239 bows for hire too
Being in charge of protecting the local area from monsters while living in a castle and getting money (often a percentage of income) is exactly what feudal lords were for. They had the knowledge and skill in combat and "extorted" protection money.
Also the way adventuring guilds are often portrayed is weird. A medieval guild is a commitment for live, they violently guard their specialization and often just as violently guard their reputation from any misdeeds of their own members through punishment. Journeyman members of the adventuring guild would like any craftsmen guild journey through the land to bring their skills to remote communities and larger projects while being bound by a strict code (which often included price lists). And larger towns or cities would have members that are settled there teaching and plying their trade but also able to and often bound by guild orders if necessary to travel in order to join large undertakings.
Plus adding to the state / region into the guild influence making each guild branks different from one these other. Having different rules base off the location you find the guild and what rules that the location government can't restrict the party or uses on the guild. How much percentage does the guild take out of your pay and split it with the government. I would see the guild job as a request that would be send you by the people or government. Guild council leader have influence over things. Like the guild's head council leader of magic, alchemy, mercenary, historian / scholar, hunter, merchant, assassin, governmental and so on. Each guild counsel leader are specialized and influence the adventure guild from being out of control for each kingdom.
of course there is the equivalent of the anit trust laws that the guilds would be threatened by and extra. or some other shit really more offten then not what i saw in one story example in warband for mount and blade with the custom battle option for a commander there was one merchant who was aspiring to become wealthy by legal trade in jalica by selling cloth and did so well there that the guild there was threatened by that man they ruined him by artifically dropping the price of cloth to such a point that he could not afford to keep his shop up so he turned to banditry to take revenge against the guild there and regained the wealth he lost by becoming the largest gang leader in that city and the surrounding area.
now something like that story is one of those reasons that the guild should be hessitant on dealing with things that can threaten them or rivals that do better then they are and will not join there lot. they will create something much worse down the line.
@@TheManofthecross Anti-Trust laws are something very recent, like 1930s recent. In most medieval contexts Guilds were legal monopolies because they provided essential skills and guaranteed quality education and quality control as well as safety standards in a much better way than any feudal lord could have. So they enforced membership through fines, imprisonment and other violent but legal enforcement methods. In some places in Britain they even replaced the local governments of towns. Adam Smith's free market theories arose from an opposition to Guilds not to regulation as a whole. Rules enforcement in a feudal society tended to be very local but the reach of Guilds through their Journeyman often but them on a level of Kings.
@@verybigbrain1 I was refering to the anti trust laws un the US when they came about along with the break up of said monopolies.
if that is the case then it is justifised with what adam smith's thinking regarding free markets to oppose the lot.
it is the guilds enforcement is where things will go wrong. especally with the violent part as well for it will backfire on them and they will make a problem that is so great that even those not of the guild and the proper authorities can see that the guild fucked up there and are paying the price for it.
@@TheManofthecross Anti-trust laws like that require a powerful central authority to make and enforce. In the US the federal government only gained that kind of power during the massive upheaval of the great depression and in a feudal society it just does not exist. And all law enforcement is fundamentally violent. It is after all at the point of a gun/sword and with the threat of eventual lethal force if resistance becomes to great. In medieval times that eventual tended to come much sooner than today whether by a guild, the church or a local lord. Sure from time to time a Guild wold fuck up and a leader would be sacrificed but driving away a guild was something a local lord could not afford.
Guilds were a fundamental basis of political and economic power from the early 11th century until the industrial revolution in the 17th century when the first round of automation reduced the value of their training enough to break their economic strength and the centralization of governmental power in the burgeoning empires of colonial Europe finally found the strength to oppose them although they were mostly replaced by the first corporations like the east India trading company which also did it's own law enforcement.
Tldr: shad describes the dark ages in Destiny where "adventures" acted as warlords.
Interesting: I could imagine specialist mercenary groups doing 'adventuring' as a side-line when work is slow being the nearest to the fantasy trope. The highly paid professional siege engineer band made up of a relatively small group of skilled specialists. What do those people do when there isn't an army in need of their expertise to bring castle walls down? I suspect the combination of irregular work, transferable skills, and an expensive lifestyle that would need financing might lead to a bit of 'classic adventuring' on the side. Go home between jobs? Boring!
Now I'm imagining a group of siege engineers who during times of peace will take contracts on monsters like Owlbears, Girallons, Manticores, Griffon, etc. Obviously big dangerous creatures that most people wouldn't stand a chance against.....
But some siege engineers who can build two or three Ballista, camouflage them, place a few large bear traps around a dead deer, and the just fire the Ballista at the monster that shows up? Easy enough takedown for guys who would know how to build and operate such machines.
The early modern period has a lot of loose military-entrepreneurs who show up to wars for pay. They fill out one army or the other professionally and go where jobs are available. A lot of odd folks fill out the officer ranks for a while.
in a modern setting it is called technical advisor, sometimes comes with Toyota pickup.
For the "Local Adventurers" concept, there is actually a pretty good example in the Companions from Skyrim, if more "provincial" than strictly "municipal" in scale (since they operate in *all* of Skyrim, not just Whiterun). They are a small group of warriors that has their home in Whiterun, and all their members, safe for a few exceptions, came from Whiterun.
Though they also lean into the "Mercenary" angle as well, since they take money in exchange for roughing up people that don't pay their debts, hunting down monsters and animals, or hunt down criminals, but they have a strict moral compass.
Also, one Adventurer type that shouldn't be ignored is the "Bounty Hunter". If the governments in a given setting have enough bureaucratic capacity to issue bounties for bandits, wanted criminals, and occasionally even monsters, you'll inevitably see people that make a living off of bringing these bounties in.
i love the idea of the local champion and have used this in a few dnd campaigns
i also think that the escort type of mercenary could become an adventure
For the Local Champion, I'm reminded of a scene in Waterworld.
Costner's character, the Mariner, gets permission to enter the Atoll, and ties his boat to the inside dock He then teases/fascinates a couple of local urchins with some mirrors. At this point, the Atoll Enforcer, played by the late R. D. Call, steps by him.
Enforcer: Know me?
Mariner: Know your sort.
Enforcer: Then you know what I can do if you cause trouble.
Mariner: I don't plan to be here long.
Basically, the Enforcer serves as a mix between Sheriff when dealing with lawbreakers and the like, and Militia Captain when the atoll gets attacked by pirates. This could be the role of the Local Champion Adventurer, wherein they and some like-minded companions keep the peace in the village, and defend it when it comes under attack.
When I play DnD I have two extremes. 1) I am here to kick ass, get paid, and get laid. 2) It is my duty as a Noble to protect those weaker then me. I will defend the weak and helpless. Keep your gold good sir.