MASTER MODES GUNNERY
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
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![BASICS NEW PILOTS SHOULD KNOW! [StarCitizen Combat 3.23]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FfS0VRkxI24/mqdefault.jpg)
![BASICS NEW PILOTS SHOULD KNOW! [StarCitizen Combat 3.23]](/img/tr.png)
I really like the animation. Definetely helped understanding what was going on.
Concur.
I agree. Having it play on the loop was helpful to drive home the points being made.
11:15 i like this alot, because it also implies that a good pliot would probably always be able to win against a large ship (ignoring that with engineering and armor it would maybe be impossible) but a large ship with a single fighter escort is probably inmune to fighters at this point.
Like theres no way you can get under a Hammerheads turrets and then also evade or fight off another fighter.
And it finally truly sells that ace pilot fantasy of, hey, if you truly can manage to pull that off, then you really did earn that win and you did an awsome job, instead of how it is now were if you know the theory you can reliably make large ships useless.
This is cool as fuck, thanks for the vid man, and the animations were great too
Ya but at some point, certain size weapons apparently won’t do damage to certain size ships.
@@BGIANAKyand it is absolutely normal and logic
@@GUNJOEXD agreed
I really like the gunnery changes in MM, I think they're going in the right direction. Repeaters and gatlings feel good, I'd like to see all the guns get a nice balance pass so that cannons can have a place in the meta as far as long range is concerned. High velocity, high alpha damage, really low fire rate for the longest range cannons so they can threaten you on an approach but incapable of matching the dps of a repeater in close range.
I remember you advocating for bullet spread in a video long ago with some footage from DCS. You had a video of a Hornet (F/A-18C, not F-7C) in a dogfight showing the spread from the M61A1 Vulcan cannon and bringing up points you would later bring up in this video. The EEGS sight on the F-16, if you have the target radar locked with an ACM mode, will not only show where to aim at different G, but will also have markings for those turns you were talking about earlier to take those turns into account.
Brooo I brought up changing to an EGGS style sight in 2015 with the DFM LoL
@@Toysrme EEGS or even the snap line with a ranging indicator would be more useful than a simple pip. There is a reason most modern fighters use such gunsights in reality as the LCOS pippers were found to be less effective. In the book "Art of the Kill" an F-16 pilot talks about how the EEGS is FAR more effective than LCOS (analogous to lag pip). I agree that an EEGS or snap line combined with a boresight cross would be more effective than either lead or lag pip.
@@NuclearFalcon146 The people in charge at the time blew it off, but there are new people now. I truly think everything UI related gets put on the board for total replacement when that archaic system is overhauled that generates in game UI. It’s like the starmap & everything else. We work with what we have, but it will be replaced
you have seen many comments about me and my dislike of flight model. 10 mins in master modes and i was hooked, it was fun and responsive again like pre 3.0.
100% agree with your comment on turrets being a threat that light fighters have to stay far away or get in so close that now the turret is shooting a ship and not an empty point in space hoping a hit happens. It makes u feel like your actually in a fight and doing something and not just shooting a scene for the next star wars movie where nothing hits lol
I see what you mean, however I don't think small snub should be able to even bring down the shields of large multicrew ships, let alone do damage to them. I think their purpose should be solely as anti-fighter and anti bomber role, while larger ships duke it out between them. Large and Capital shields should have constant regen of such speed that anything under S4 for large, and S5 for capital, don't stand a chance to even bring it down.
one step at a time
Perfect timing for a great topic.
The Animation really helps! Then seeing it in game is a great combo.
If I may, I would recommend a summary screen of the key takeaways at the end during your wrap up.
Looking forward to the lag/lead pip talk.
quick summary is a great idea
keep up the good work man, super informative and helped me get an idea why im missing shots when the square has me thinking "oh this will hit perfectly"
Beautiful demonstration! Im looking forward to your MM versions of your guides.
Honestly have been pretty nervous about master modes but this makes me feel better. Love the idea of a HH being pretty dangerous.
Man your going to make this game so much harder. I miss the good old days when finding someone who know how to fight was basically non existent outside of the few ;)
Ironically ;) great work
Great to see you making guides for MM!
Predictionary gunnery is imho a staple of the whole genre, at least in pvp, while usually the NPCs had been more tame and thus the target solutions did tend to be more often correct, which hopefully will not always stay the case for Star Citizen at least.
Great animations btw. Great explanation too. Not sure if this really takes years though, the concept is pretty straight forward and most people get the idea during a rather short amount of time.
Killer animation, thanks Sidestrafe!
In the current iteration of the game, cannons serve no purpose. High damage/short range doesn't seem to really fit right now or in master modes. What do you want for the future of cannons?
8:43 is btw the perfect example why I am still using lead pip most of the time. Though I admit, I am often not even looking at it but instead if and how my shots are landing or missing, something which at least for me does not work as well with lag pip as the hud is distracting me. Maybe it's just the difference in practise though or maybe it's just the too high brightness of the hud.
Love this kind of video and perspective. Animations were great, too.
This is great. The only thing I would like changed is that big square, the live version conveys shape and profile
Target saturation at range is going to make the hammerhead or connie extremly potent.
I feel like a video on long range weapon spread can be useful here as followup vid
Glorious animation and instruction.
Bro that animation was fantastic.
wish we could set a different type of pip for certain ship sizes, i find a lead pip easier for smaller ships and a lag pip easier for larger ships (i know theres a binding to swap pip type but having to do that manually is a drag)
Not sure if it really is a drag unless you start running out of easy to reach buttons to press, which seems unlikely as these days the software that comes with flight gear and even keyboards and mice has become so flexible.
i have dual T16s and i'd rather not take my hands off them for a keybind
@@georgemodify1604 Understandable, that was aimed more on the mouse and keyboard crowd.
Iirc Target does support logical operators and modifier keys too, right? So while those T16000ms really are lacking in buttons, you might be able to help yourself with that. Still annoying to basically only have 8 buttons + two 8-ways, so I certainly feel you with trying to minimize the amount of buttons needed to press.
But yeah, as I said unless you run out of buttons … it certainly is a drag when running Twin T16000Ms.
Voice attack might help a bit in that case, but certainly not ideal either.
Might be a bit spoiled as I did not even thought about the T16000m, despite them being pretty popular entry sticks for HOSAS users.
It begins!!!!
You’ve been in the good shit lately bro!👍
Awesome! Thanks for another great lesson, One.
That was pretty well explained.
This is actually close to WW2 engaging distances. Dunno if I want this in a sci-fi game though.
Those animations are *chefs kiss* perfecto!
There are some things I dislike about A1 but no one can contest you bring top tier quality videos that can't be matched .
Such a good description. Great animations.
Wow animation upgrades
Animation was great
nice animations!, nice content, nice video, thank you avenger!
Wow, this really helped the concept "click" for me. Thanks dude!
So if the optimum firing range for a hornet sized fighter is 250m let’s say. Dose that mean a ship twice the size and is less agile, has an optimum range of 500m for example. In which case turrets still have a hard time?
profile WILL have that effect correct, but 10% of a Hammerheads 2000 DPS, is still 2X that of an in range optimal fighter, feel me
Excellent video. Love the animations
What do you think about this: increase the spread of cone fire, increase the projectile speed, remove the pip entirely.
nice work! keep going!
Nice animation
I can't wait for MM in the PU. Then my Hammerhead will actually matter and can fight back against light fighters.
Love your videos, keep ooon going buddy
Is there a setting to turn on that shows your targets angle? Mine doesn't show which way they are rotated like yours does.
Another master class, once again.
Great presentation per usual!
This was very helpful for me thanks!
Superb
New animations are 42/10. Very nice.
Excellent pedagogical animation, a huge bravo to whoever was the animator!
Im downloading Star citizen right now
Thank you, it was really interesting
Damned good video.
The speed limit in MM was increased? I'm off the SC's news for a while...
We need lasers that are actually laser speed
So cannons?
Yep but I'm not enjoying Master Modes so far. I suspect it will be great for groups and a tea-bagging for everyone else.
What if lasers were actually realistic and speed of light instant distance?
The pip will become directly on the ship and crosshair at the same time when you should fire. And lag and lead pip would look the same. Sniping from long range becomes reasonable easy and low target profile and high speed would become oppressively powerful again most likely.
You get hitscan weapons basically, aimbot work now in the game and the target solution from the pip is pretty much always correct and there is no predictive targeting anymore. You can snipe components pretty easily too now. Soooo, basically the one planned Hitscan weapon in the game, Tachyon weapons will be a huge pain to balance.
Only weapon spread will limit your range really.
@@Traumglanz Was there any reason they are treating laser weapons like zero ammo machine guns?
How we are suppouse to engage ground targets (turrets, tanks, infantry) with 400m max range? Has anyone thought of that?
an ad selling uec before video ffs
Okay, I watched (only) two MM videos until now (I tried to stay away from all the drama content and keep an open mind about it)... and am more concerned than ever before. Either the system is terribly flawed, or the explanation is, because it makes barley any sense.
So, Ive never invested much time in ship combat missions, to the point where I literally only had one PvP fight (in the PU at least) in several years (also not counting the two times I had to deal with griefers locking down an entire station, without being able to even angage them). Just to make clear where Im coming from or what my, surely limited, point of view on this matter is.
First, I see and agree to the problem discussed and showcased in the animation. The firing cone IS actually a solution that makes sense and Im okay with it so far. BUT: I dont see any other difference and meaninfull reason to change the entire(!) flight model for this/at the same time.
You get more effective the closer you get. Now and then, just for different reasons (pip precission vs saturation efficiency).
The profile of your ship compared to range still matters: the firing cone will reach 100% efficiency on a dorsal/ventral HH much earlier than on one attacked from the front or side or a smaller ship. If they dont implement the weapons re-balance at the same time, big ships will be screwed even more until that happens. Especially if the turret firing cone is not able to apply the same damage in relation, while firing back at the smaller sillouette.
The light fighter meta could simply be broken up by the weapon vs armor rebalance thats also in the works.
11:10 Turret vs. fighters: well thats pointless because of the previous point. Fighters will have to keep their distance to larger ships... or are just sitting in their blindspots without being able to do anything meaningfull, beside being an annoyance (and at risk of crashing any second without any gain) The turrets of a fully crewed ship should create a deathzone for everything smaller around them - but that is still a matter of weapon balance and doesnt need to change the way ships fly. In the end you'll still be shooting at pips at long ranges, completly contradicting your own assumption!
Last but not least, from a PvE oriented players perspective: this will make NPC-fights unplayable - at least until server meshing gets implemented to relieve the server from some of the stress. The distances are already so close that the AI often crashes into you or even each other, especially if you fly a larger, less maneuverable, ship. I was hoping for at least a doubling of the engagement ranges to make that less likely.
So, I can only speak for myself... but that simply kills every desire in me to get or play a (light) fighter for good. Because what we get in the end will only be boring at best, or frustating at worst, at least in PvE. Well it already is frustating because we have the tools for a solution on the table - but get something completly different and not appropiate on top.
I also think to fully understand the impact of MMs we will have to see it in the PU, as in my oppinion the AC is a to limited experience - you all are already in a combat situation, ready and willing to fight. But how does it play in a real-life envoirement, when A, prepared and planning to fight, is attacking B, not prepared and not ready or willing to fight. Not to mention the vastly different ship types going up against each other outside of a balanced scenario.
Just press g for aim bot ??
Or, just use the trailing pip…
Aim os so weird roght mow. Its almost a binary between can and cannnot aim with no skill curve between.
Pee pee poo poo
Based
bruh
Goo goo gaa gaa
@@Avenger__One 🧠 never forget the psychological warfare aspect of the game heh
The real issue is the speed of projectile...
Y'all say you want scifi space sim.. but everything is slowed down bellow mach 4
Would a futuristc ship use explisive cartridge ammunition... when railgun and massdriver could fire projectile at mack 19??!
Where are laser propagating at hhe speed of light?
Ooh it's not fun??!
There's ways to make it fun...
But slowing everythings down to make it more accessible to normies because normies will never enjoy getting gangked by pirates and those players will then outnumber and be askinb for pve servers and pvp restriction mesures...
Keep compromising and watering down the simulation...
And the game will become neither...
Those who came... like me being sold a space sim realistic with physics and rralistic space flight will look elsewhere
And normies will quit too because of the pirates pvp...
You'll be left with a toxic community and hackers playing that game like dayZ ...rust or other game of the g
Which is more fun: WW2 style of aerial combat where you get up close in person, have to anticipate your enemy movement to aim at them and outposition them, try to evade fire back, or the modern air combat where you lock your target at tens of kilometers away and press a button to fire a missile? Come on... instead of saying empty words like "There's ways to make it fun" tell us how could that end up more fun because I can't see it happenin without making it full arcady with some very silly artificial mechanics.
@@naril0s 1st: well, there are a literall thousand other games out there doing this, from arcade shooters like Battlefield to actuall flight sims to sci-fi iterations like Star Wars. Its nothing unique, its nothing interessting anymore. SC brought something new, fresh and semi-realistic to the table. The thing is, MMs arent bad... we just had/have soemthing better, that makes more sense and feels better.
2nd: Simply the scale and scenario of SC gives the opportunity to balance this all and make it fun. Single-seat-fighters can have different domains where they excell. Light fighters should be dominating atmosphereic and close quarter-fights and be as usefull in deep space, as a tank in a submarine battle. You can and should pick your fighting ground and playstyle with the ship you choose. Position and outmaneuvering an opponent still happens, just at different speeds and ranges - basically what the video says. And at the same time the devs are also developing mechanics to counter the light fighter meta by balancing weapon sizes vs armor - so this too shouldnt be a problem in the future, without screwing the flight mechanics.
And "what you're shooting at" can be simply done by holographic displays - doesnt matter what range... in the end we are shooting at pixels anyways.
Last but not least a fun-fact: the "dogfights" are more a hollywood-fantasy than anything else. Its part of the earlies air-combat doctrine that you should create the envoirement to decide a fight with your first attack strafe... everything after that has always been a duell of failiures and solved only by wingmen or other outside support.
Nah id rather watch paint dry than play mm
The game is set some 900 years in the future and they are effectively saying problems like aiming and computer pip still cant get it right?
No, they are saying that with finite velocity projectiles there is always time to evade that perfect firing solution from the computer. Nothing else. The firing solution is perfect with the target does not evade the shots coming it's way.
With hitscan weapons on the other hand you do not even need that pip as you just aim at the target and press fire. Instant tachyon gun hits might become a thing once they start to balance those.
Future Boeing: Our new targeting computers will always give you the wrong solution, but they have cool 3D lockons.
UEE Government: Well take your whole stock!
if you can predict the future go for it, and its as Chris wants, a SCI-FI WW2 dogfighter
@@Avenger__One Not claiming I can predict the future but if we are no better 900 years from now then we are now, what a pathetic existence we live indeed!
@@Traumglanz You made my point. This assumes computers 900 years from now are no better than they are today and that idea is absurd on its face!