Oh my, I'm 5 years out from the party, but I wanted to suggest comparing your best v60 to your best kalita cup, because the two brewers may benefit from different grind/time/water temp recipes. Love the video though! Appreciate it. Though, if v60 was winning at course, and going finer would over extract on the kalita, makes a good argument for v60.
Great video! Your Kalita filter did have some issues however. Your pre-rinse caused your ridges to collapse in several places. I know it seems trivial, but on the wave, this really does cause uneven extraction. To prevent this in your pre-rinse, use concentric circles, starting from the dead middle of the bottom of the filter, very slowly work your way out, and when you hit the sides with the water, just hit them lightly several times rather than heavily one time. Focusing on the middle gives a bit of tension, which will help the filter's integrity in the end. The ridges in the filter are an important factor in brewing a wave, and making sure they remain intact will most certainly help you brew a better cup. Once again, great pours, and great video!
+Casey Stringer Thank you so much for the excellent feedback - I'll give this a try in my future brews. Any tips for storing the filters to keep their shape?
I experienced, that there are big differences in taste, depending on the roast. Darker roasts go better in the V60, lighter roasts in the Kalita. Don't know if that's true. Just my personal opinion
Thanks for an interesting experiment. On brew temps you might want to try a plastic Hario v60 as the argument from such coffee illuminaries as Scott Rao and James Hoffman is that it keeps more of the waters heat/energy for extraction in the brew slurry rather than being leached out to the material of the brewer. Now I’d love to a side by side comparison of a ceramic or glass v60 to a plastic one !
I have a V60. I thought I'd get both and ordered a Kalita as well. But the Kalita filters (in addition to costing more) are bigger and take up more room to store. It wasn't worth the hassle in a small kitchen, so I sent it back.
I own a ceramic V60, and will probably never buy a kalita wave, because 9 times out of 10 when I go to a specialist coffee roaster's cafe or coffeehouse and I choose a pour over option when they use a kalita wave, I always wish they would use the V60. I always tend to find coffee brewed through the Kalita has more bitterness and just generally always prefer the V60. Great video man, cheers!
Thanks for your comment, Sam.This was my experience at first too. Lately, I've been doing much better with the kalita for the following reasons: 1) using a much coarser grind than I use with the V60 and 2) keeping the filters in a jar to maintain the shape 3) really focusing on keeping extraction time under 4 minutes. But hey, if the V60 is working for ya...no point in changing!
+The Coffee Concierge strange that you found the kalita to be bitter. in the first medium coarse test, the kalita was brighter than the v60, far opposite to bitter.
Really nice vid! A blind taste test is really a good way to go for a 1 to 1 comparison (still taking into account the inherited differences between the brewers). Keep up the good work 👍🏻
I feel that knowing the coffee you brewed will be interesting as well as knowing which grinder you use, just as a matter of doing this "experiment" more complete. Don't get me wrong, I think the time you took to do this will help some of your viewers. I think that you could use help to brew the second coffee, the temperature difference actually help to accentuate or to diminish some notes from the coffee and having a timer it's definitely crucial! Probably you can do this experiment a bit "better" by going the "extra mile" and getting a refractometer, just to see the TDS difference, because it has to be a difference here... Anyway, good job in putting all this together. I'm sure you'll come back with something interesting again.
Just a comment that I recently got an infrared laser thermometer. Extremely useful tool for coffee making. Instant highly accurate temperature measurement without actually having to stick anything in the liquid. And you can find out where there are cold air leaks in your house, too.
+Jireh Climaco Yep you're right. Although I did switch the order in which I tried the cups from trial to trial, and went back and forth between them a few times. Also, it's the same coffee so I wasn't expecting huge differences.
Interesting experiment! I really it! One thing that I think you should have mentioned is the kind of coffee beans you used. Show us how the coffee beans you used would be great I think!
I think that some of the bad results from the kalita are due to insufficient bed depth. 15g is about the minimum dose you could use in a v60, but is a little small for a kalita and makes it hard to avoid excess channeling. A cone shaped dripper will have a thicker bed depth than a flat bed dripper for the same dose, do you can use a lower dose in a cone dripper than a flat bed dripper. A better test would probably have been to use a 20g or 22g dose, which is in the ideal range for both. I suspect the kalita would have won with the higher dose because it’s easier to get an even extraction with a flat bed brewer than a cone shaped one.
I don't think that either of these two cones are better than the other one. Kalita Wave is more forgiving and you need less technique but the Hario V60 needs controlled technique. With the Kalita there are mainly two techniques: continuous pour keeping steady level of water below the bed of coffee or pulse brew like you didd here. With the Hario you can get much more varied results and it takes some time to master the technique that you like the best. And keep in mind you don't want the coffee get completely dry like you did with the Hario V60 that of course brewed faster than the Kalita with the same grind setting.
Stefan Sigfinnsson Yep. There are simply too many variables at play to definitively conclude or even say that one is better than the other. I was mostly curious to see which I liked better in the most controlled setting I was able to create. As soon as I get ahold of two identical mugs (which I've been putting off forever) I'll make sure to follow up with some more results!
Stefan Sigfinnsson I have a breakdown of the brew times (video recording helped with this one), they were actually quite close. I'll follow up with the link to the write-up when I'm done.
I'm still new to the world of V60 brewing, but is there a specific reason that you are pouring anti-clockwise with the V60? I read that the curved ridges are there to assist in an even distribution of water on the coffee bed and that is why people pour along the direction of the ridges (clockwise).
Great observation. Frankly, I had never paid attention to the direction I was pouring...so the decision was pretty arbitrary. I'd be curious to see how the extraction is impacted, if at all. I'd imagine a clockwise rotation might help with rotating the slurry like Matt Perger demonstrates in one of his Hario V60 demos.
Actually, I believe Perger pour's counter-clockwise according to this demo. vimeo.com/46612013 I'm not saying you can't make a delicious cup of V60 pouring counter-clockwise, but I thought that the sole purpose of the ridges were there in order to pour with them. But I hear that the only way to achieve the Rao spin is to pour counter-clockwise. But Matt Perger lives in Australia where the water drains to the left. Though, I don't think the Rao spin is incredibly important. haha
Christian Balocca hahaha...oh well. I've heard the ridges' purpose is to keep the filter from sticking directly to the cone, although I'm not sure why this would be necessary. Perhaps to prevent a concentrated extraction in the center of the dripper? I'll have to experiment with this a bit more to see if it makes a difference. Let me know what you find out in your own testing!
+knifeforkandaspoon Another great question that I should have the answer to, but unfortunately don't. I believe this was a medium roast (origin unknown, sorry). I promise, I'm not always this negligent. I plan to run this experiment again and I'll make sure to write down all the details.
The Coffee Concierge It's okay, I was just curious. It was an interesting video to watch. I have neither of the brewing devices used. Currently, I use a Chemex but am curious about the Kalita Wave. I'm thinking about even getting the particular one you used, the stainless steel 185.
+knifeforkandaspoon Cool! Did you check out this video I did? ruclips.net/video/7ZnIVxrGQew/видео.html Let me know if you have any questions about the Kalita.
I believe that roast is directly proportional to the result, time ago coffeeshop's not specialty coffee were used to profile roast, now a days it's better an 'omniroast' cup tasting profile... best vibes... IG @apapachoqueretaro
I don't agree. In my opinion, you can't use same brew methods in these two dripper. Each dripper should have it own parameters. sry for my bad English :/
Well, I have moved on and come to the conclusion that different beans, roasts, season, weather, state of mind, water, fits different brew methods so theres no point to hunt for the holy grail. You cannot recreate a brew ever again to 100%. By the way the Kalita 155 would have won easy over those two when brewing only one cup in your scenario.
Well said my friend nothing like holy grail poeple turn to complicate at the end of the day it even boils down to preferences and like u righly said halita was even soppose to be the winner even looking at the way its built there is that ability for kalita pour over to have more body compared to the hario.At the end of the day,its all about personal preferences.
Very lackluster review, the presenter did not seem very knowledgeable at all regarding the inner-workings of either product. For example, he states that the ribs on the V60 do nothing other than "hold the filter in place," which is not the case at all -- the spiral ribs on the V60 are to increase airflow during brewing. Other reviews I've seen and read from Coffee Concierge have been equally disappointing. I think the like to dislike ratio speaks for itself. Hopefully you guys can get a more well-versed presenter, because the production of your videos is otherwise quite good. Cheers.
I'm not trying to say the video is bad, just amateurish. The foundation for a good coffee channel is definitely there. However the few videos I have watched from you guys have left me feeling like I didn't learn any insider tips or tricks, which is the whole reason I search for these types of videos. Cheers
Unfortunately, firing the presenter isn't possible, because I am the presenter. It's just me, there is no team behind these videos. I'm learning as I go here. Never claimed to be an expert. Constructive (and specific) feedback is always welcome. Already in the process of re-doing many of these videos. Take care
Never meant to imply that the presenter (yourself) is bad or should be fired, just that the informational content of the video was underwhelming. I am glad you appreciate the constructive criticism and look forward to seeing your new videos, you got yourself a new subscriber. cheers
Oh shut up Glide Consulting. He never once implied that he had better content or that he was even interested in producing content. He's entitled to his opinion and critique just like everyone else on this planet. If you upload content to the web, you are opening yourself up to critique. You're using the very very tired old argument that basically goes "Well if you can't do better then you can't have an opinion on it." It's a childish and nonsensical retort and I can't believe people still throw it out there.
Too much slow talk and sipping and not enough concise reviews, so not very helpful. I've usually used a finer 'medium coarse' for both Chemex and Hario and a slightly finer grind than that for the Kalita, and it's been great for me that way.
not all coffees are profiled (not talking about roast) if not about cup profile for the same dripper. Good vid, but limited info developed. Filters were not the same pore/material, method was not the same material...temperature and your taste it's not a reference, brix...using a refractometer it's a more measurable experiment. Vibes. IG @apapachoqueretaro
Oh my, I'm 5 years out from the party, but I wanted to suggest comparing your best v60 to your best kalita cup, because the two brewers may benefit from different grind/time/water temp recipes. Love the video though! Appreciate it. Though, if v60 was winning at course, and going finer would over extract on the kalita, makes a good argument for v60.
Great video! Your Kalita filter did have some issues however. Your pre-rinse caused your ridges to collapse in several places. I know it seems trivial, but on the wave, this really does cause uneven extraction. To prevent this in your pre-rinse, use concentric circles, starting from the dead middle of the bottom of the filter, very slowly work your way out, and when you hit the sides with the water, just hit them lightly several times rather than heavily one time. Focusing on the middle gives a bit of tension, which will help the filter's integrity in the end. The ridges in the filter are an important factor in brewing a wave, and making sure they remain intact will most certainly help you brew a better cup. Once again, great pours, and great video!
+Casey Stringer Thank you so much for the excellent feedback - I'll give this a try in my future brews. Any tips for storing the filters to keep their shape?
I experienced, that there are big differences in taste, depending on the roast. Darker roasts go better in the V60, lighter roasts in the Kalita. Don't know if that's true. Just my personal opinion
Thanks for an interesting experiment. On brew temps you might want to try a plastic Hario v60 as the argument from such coffee illuminaries as Scott Rao and James Hoffman is that it keeps more of the waters heat/energy for extraction in the brew slurry rather than being leached out to the material of the brewer. Now I’d love to a side by side comparison of a ceramic or glass v60 to a plastic one !
I have a V60. I thought I'd get both and ordered a Kalita as well. But the Kalita filters (in addition to costing more) are bigger and take up more room to store. It wasn't worth the hassle in a small kitchen, so I sent it back.
I own a ceramic V60, and will probably never buy a kalita wave, because 9 times out of 10 when I go to a specialist coffee roaster's cafe or coffeehouse and I choose a pour over option when they use a kalita wave, I always wish they would use the V60. I always tend to find coffee brewed through the Kalita has more bitterness and just generally always prefer the V60. Great video man, cheers!
Thanks for your comment, Sam.This was my experience at first too. Lately, I've been doing much better with the kalita for the following reasons: 1) using a much coarser grind than I use with the V60 and 2) keeping the filters in a jar to maintain the shape 3) really focusing on keeping extraction time under 4 minutes.
But hey, if the V60 is working for ya...no point in changing!
Yeah cool! My extractions are usually around 3 minutes, depending on the coffee
+The Coffee Concierge strange that you found the kalita to be bitter. in the first medium coarse test, the kalita was brighter than the v60, far opposite to bitter.
True, just in my personal experience I prefer the V60
Really nice vid! A blind taste test is really a good way to go for a 1 to 1 comparison (still taking into account the inherited differences between the brewers). Keep up the good work 👍🏻
I feel that knowing the coffee you brewed will be interesting as well as knowing which grinder you use, just as a matter of doing this "experiment" more complete. Don't get me wrong, I think the time you took to do this will help some of your viewers. I think that you could use help to brew the second coffee, the temperature difference actually help to accentuate or to diminish some notes from the coffee and having a timer it's definitely crucial! Probably you can do this experiment a bit "better" by going the "extra mile" and getting a refractometer, just to see the TDS difference, because it has to be a difference here...
Anyway, good job in putting all this together. I'm sure you'll come back with something interesting again.
RogerG_Zapata thanks you for the great constructive feedback. I’m due to re-do this video, so I’ll keep your comments in mind!
The Coffee Concierge Thank you 😊 I’ll wait patiently for your next video 😉
Good review I prefer Kalita. But just my opinion
Just a comment that I recently got an infrared laser thermometer. Extremely useful tool for coffee making. Instant highly accurate temperature measurement without actually having to stick anything in the liquid. And you can find out where there are cold air leaks in your house, too.
Awesome. Will look into upgrading soon
should have a sip of water to wash off the taste of the first cup. the second tasting is stained by the first cup
+Jireh Climaco Yep you're right. Although I did switch the order in which I tried the cups from trial to trial, and went back and forth between them a few times. Also, it's the same coffee so I wasn't expecting huge differences.
And maybe not drink into the mic.
Interesting experiment! I really it! One thing that I think you should have mentioned is the kind of coffee beans you used.
Show us how the coffee beans you used would be great I think!
why not also use a kalita glass brewer to make a more even comparison?
Good idea!
I think that some of the bad results from the kalita are due to insufficient bed depth. 15g is about the minimum dose you could use in a v60, but is a little small for a kalita and makes it hard to avoid excess channeling. A cone shaped dripper will have a thicker bed depth than a flat bed dripper for the same dose, do you can use a lower dose in a cone dripper than a flat bed dripper. A better test would probably have been to use a 20g or 22g dose, which is in the ideal range for both. I suspect the kalita would have won with the higher dose because it’s easier to get an even extraction with a flat bed brewer than a cone shaped one.
I think you should have muted out the tasting & swallowing sounds
I disagree. slurping is an integral part of specialty coffee
I completely agree.
I don't think that either of these two cones are better than the other one. Kalita Wave is more forgiving and you need less technique but the Hario V60 needs controlled technique. With the Kalita there are mainly two techniques: continuous pour keeping steady level of water below the bed of coffee or pulse brew like you didd here. With the Hario you can get much more varied results and it takes some time to master the technique that you like the best. And keep in mind you don't want the coffee get completely dry like you did with the Hario V60 that of course brewed faster than the Kalita with the same grind setting.
Stefan Sigfinnsson Yep. There are simply too many variables at play to definitively conclude or even say that one is better than the other. I was mostly curious to see which I liked better in the most controlled setting I was able to create. As soon as I get ahold of two identical mugs (which I've been putting off forever) I'll make sure to follow up with some more results!
The Coffee Concierge I brew on a scale and I do continuous pour and time my brewtime so doing two cones at a time is not an option for me.
Stefan Sigfinnsson I have a breakdown of the brew times (video recording helped with this one), they were actually quite close. I'll follow up with the link to the write-up when I'm done.
I need one click coarser on my grinder to get the same brewtime on the Kalita as on the Hario
Stefan Sigfinnsson Wow, that's it? Interesting...I'll have to experiment with this on my own grinder (getting mine replaced at the moment).
I'm still new to the world of V60 brewing, but is there a specific reason that you are pouring anti-clockwise with the V60? I read that the curved ridges are there to assist in an even distribution of water on the coffee bed and that is why people pour along the direction of the ridges (clockwise).
Great observation. Frankly, I had never paid attention to the direction I was pouring...so the decision was pretty arbitrary. I'd be curious to see how the extraction is impacted, if at all. I'd imagine a clockwise rotation might help with rotating the slurry like Matt Perger demonstrates in one of his Hario V60 demos.
Actually, I believe Perger pour's counter-clockwise according to this demo.
vimeo.com/46612013
I'm not saying you can't make a delicious cup of V60 pouring counter-clockwise, but I thought that the sole purpose of the ridges were there in order to pour with them. But I hear that the only way to achieve the Rao spin is to pour counter-clockwise. But Matt Perger lives in Australia where the water drains to the left. Though, I don't think the Rao spin is incredibly important. haha
Christian Balocca hahaha...oh well. I've heard the ridges' purpose is to keep the filter from sticking directly to the cone, although I'm not sure why this would be necessary. Perhaps to prevent a concentrated extraction in the center of the dripper?
I'll have to experiment with this a bit more to see if it makes a difference. Let me know what you find out in your own testing!
Nice video. But I don't think you can say it was a fair experiment if you only try with one kind of coffee...
What kind of coffee was used? Light roast, medium roast? Ethiopian, Guatemalan?
+knifeforkandaspoon Another great question that I should have the answer to, but unfortunately don't. I believe this was a medium roast (origin unknown, sorry).
I promise, I'm not always this negligent. I plan to run this experiment again and I'll make sure to write down all the details.
The Coffee Concierge It's okay, I was just curious. It was an interesting video to watch. I have neither of the brewing devices used. Currently, I use a Chemex but am curious about the Kalita Wave. I'm thinking about even getting the particular one you used, the stainless steel 185.
+knifeforkandaspoon Cool! Did you check out this video I did? ruclips.net/video/7ZnIVxrGQew/видео.html
Let me know if you have any questions about the Kalita.
I believe that roast is
directly proportional to the result, time ago coffeeshop's not specialty coffee were used to profile roast, now a days it's better an 'omniroast' cup tasting profile...
best vibes...
IG @apapachoqueretaro
not much point in measuring the temp with different cups
Just use a lily drip on the V60 and you're good to go.
Wait, you put 15 gr in each and added 22.7 gr of water only?
those gulping sounds are so awkward...
Should have done 3 cup test
Could this be used as a strainer for cold brew?
Yep, though it might take a while depending on how much concentrate you have
you can use any method for brewing cold, try a COLDBrew with Aeropress using a sweet ground, Mexican coffee is nice and clean.
What thermometer did you use? Is it reliable?
+jensmoiré RT600C by Thermoworks. It does the job and is one of the better value thermometers out there IMO
I don't agree. In my opinion, you can't use same brew methods in these two dripper. Each dripper should have it own parameters. sry for my bad English :/
Well, I have moved on and come to the conclusion that different beans, roasts, season, weather, state of mind, water, fits different brew methods so theres no point to hunt for the holy grail. You cannot recreate a brew ever again to 100%.
By the way the Kalita 155 would have won easy over those two when brewing only one cup in your scenario.
Well said my friend nothing like holy grail poeple turn to complicate at the end of the day it even boils down to preferences and like u righly said halita was even soppose to be the winner even looking at the way its built there is that ability for kalita pour over to have more body compared to the hario.At the end of the day,its all about personal preferences.
What temps were you brewing at?
205 I believe. Can't believe I left this detail out. Next time around I'll make sure to note it.
Very lackluster review, the presenter did not seem very knowledgeable at all regarding the inner-workings of either product. For example, he states that the ribs on the V60 do nothing other than "hold the filter in place," which is not the case at all -- the spiral ribs on the V60 are to increase airflow during brewing. Other reviews I've seen and read from Coffee Concierge have been equally disappointing. I think the like to dislike ratio speaks for itself. Hopefully you guys can get a more well-versed presenter, because the production of your videos is otherwise quite good. Cheers.
Ive seen worse ratios.
I'm not trying to say the video is bad, just amateurish. The foundation for a good coffee channel is definitely there. However the few videos I have watched from you guys have left me feeling like I didn't learn any insider tips or tricks, which is the whole reason I search for these types of videos. Cheers
Unfortunately, firing the presenter isn't possible, because I am the presenter. It's just me, there is no team behind these videos.
I'm learning as I go here. Never claimed to be an expert. Constructive (and specific) feedback is always welcome. Already in the process of re-doing many of these videos. Take care
Never meant to imply that the presenter (yourself) is bad or should be fired, just that the informational content of the video was underwhelming. I am glad you appreciate the constructive criticism and look forward to seeing your new videos, you got yourself a new subscriber. cheers
Oh shut up Glide Consulting. He never once implied that he had better content or that he was even interested in producing content. He's entitled to his opinion and critique just like everyone else on this planet. If you upload content to the web, you are opening yourself up to critique. You're using the very very tired old argument that basically goes "Well if you can't do better then you can't have an opinion on it." It's a childish and nonsensical retort and I can't believe people still throw it out there.
Too much slow talk and sipping and not enough concise reviews, so not very helpful. I've usually used a finer 'medium coarse' for both Chemex and Hario and a slightly finer grind than that for the Kalita, and it's been great for me that way.
not all coffees are profiled (not talking about roast) if not about cup profile for the same dripper. Good vid, but limited info developed. Filters were not the same pore/material, method was not the same material...temperature and your taste it's not a reference, brix...using a refractometer it's a more measurable experiment. Vibes.
IG @apapachoqueretaro
This guy talks like he'd rather be somewhere else.
Oh my goodness! The sound of you swallowing is so annoying!
I'm sorry. I edit it out these days, for what it's worth :-/
Bahaha sorry. I hate the sound of chewing and swallowing.
But I did learn some things from the video.
انزين يوم ما يعجبك ليش تشوف
Dude…the sound of you swallowing is awful!!
Awful glurking noises. Disgusting.
It was fun until I heard the swallowing parts, Fing nasty... couldn't watch anymore!!!
more jello please Wow! Same
more jello please You need to toughen up, dude lol