i have thought about this a lot; when i see 2 stroke motorbikes/snow machines and such, they always have a HUGE expansion chamber that takes in all the expelled gases and slowly funnels them out to a small outlet far from the (large) expansion portion. I have played around with this and one can either just straight shot the exhaust like 60s era saws, or copy the YZ80, CR 80 type expansion chamber that slowly funnel them to a small outlet. i believe that 2 strokes do not like immediate back pressure, they want time to have the spent gases to expand and draw gases slowly out. In a saw, i think the best would be to leave the large immediate expansion chamber and weld in a tapered outlet pipe.
Triaxial balance = there ain’t no free lunch! Generally speaking, the more power that you get from anything (except exhaust) the less life that you get from it. 100hp from a little Honda is doable at the expense of total lifetime. Exhaust is a different animal. Take headers on automotive for example. Longer engine life, more MPG’s, better fuel economy. People say that they are louder, well that depends on other things like what they selected for mufflers. Maybe more tinny but not louder note in and of itself. Tinnier only because of less thickness. I’m with you on everything that you’ve said here every since I’ve tuned in and subscribed. I don’t generally comment, but this one “sang” to me in a way that most people just don’t normally understand. Thank you Tinman for everything that you do and everything that you have done. I LIKE IT 👍 Just keep up your normal phenomenally good work. Excellent stuff my man.
Just got caught up on recent videos. The video on checking cylinder and cleaning the bore made me double back on reassembly of my echo cs302! Glad that was covered. Just finished restoring a 1952 Strunk 3-19. That project took 4 months and the saw I found out was built in my home town of Coatesville Pa. Thank you for all your help. Think I have a new sickness!!!
It's worth noting that more air equates to more fuel, which is more oil to the bearings. More power is better, until the heat becomes excessive... Typically good tuning makes for better distributed pressures on the crank and bearings. Finding efficiency is a fun game! Pipe sounds great!
You can add a fairly large spacer where the gasket goes and increase the capacity of air the stock muffler holds which is a easy cheap way of adding a little air coushion kinda like an expansion chamber. I like what you do on your channel man. I've built old school saws for a long time. Mostly old steel body stuff but just ordered a new 550 xp to port and see what the new stuff is capable of lol. From what I'm seeing the new saws rip as is and with some port work should be little monsters.
One of the thing i like the most is that the muffler isn't sitting so close to the crank cases. The amount of heat sinking into the front of the case is huge especially when you are blocking up big logs and there isn't much air flow at the front of the saw. Plus, we all need more crack in our lives(not the drug kind). Cheers Tinman. That Harvey knows a thing or two.
2 strokes most definitely want an expansion chamber and a funnel to a small outlet. The size outlet determines the higher or lower... Rpm where the power is delivered. The larger expansion chamber gives a cushion of air and increases the usable power. Large expansion chambers are a must in high performance 2 strokes in my opinion. Look into dirt bikes, snowmobile, and mostly into gas powered rc cars and rc planes
Good old CANADA 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦 it went from minus 32 to plus 3 in 24 hours here in ONTARIO crazy weather part of being 🇨🇦🇨🇦 French toast maple syrop and sausages lol don't forget bacon🥞🥞🥞🥞🥞😁😁😁😁✊✊✊ cold weather stay inside breakfast ,warm everyone's heart♥️♥️be safe everyone
With that design, it would be cool if you made the thicker tube longer, then welded a big nut on the end, with a big bolt on it, then you could have an adjustable length from the exhaust port to the flat end of the straight shot, where the sound/exhaust pulses bounce off, to see if you could get the exhaust gasses to keep intake charge in better, like a tuned pipe on a dirt bike. Can't remember what it's called, scavenging? Anyway, great channel, keep it up.
I agree about the tuned pipe... If I'm gonna have that monstrosity on my saw, I want it to make substantial power. A turbo should give the back pressure I need...
I have 2 mac 10-10's and I wonder how a combo of both this style of pipe and the one you made for bucking would look/work. Awsome video and exceptional explanations as always Tinman!
That's a great question. 2 strokes need to scavenge some of the unburnt fuel and exhaust that is sent out of the exhaust port. So if you run one without a pipe then tend to lack power and run lean.
I just built a muffler mod for my 372xp from one of the chinese aftermarket "high performance" mufflers with the side pipe exhaust. I cut out the factory exhaust pipe which was tiny, it would have been a close fit for a pencil... and opened up the hole and welded in a piece of 3/4 schedule 40 pipe(.680" ID) trying to keep as close to the 60-70% rule as I could with what I had on hand. This muffler has the baffle in it, but (looking from the back of the saw to the front as you're holding it) it has a huge port in the baffle at the bottom right corner to let the exhaust gas flow from the rear chamber of the muffler to the front chamber. I didn't alter any of the baffle. I made my exhaust outlet pipe long enough that it extends inside the muffler to about 3/4" from the left side of the muffler, and exhausts nearly straight out the right side, just in front of the chain brake handle. It has that "POP" in the exhaust, and sitting on the ground at idle, I can see it blowing saw chips around 3-5 feet away or more. It really flows the exhaust out, much better than I ever expected it would with the baffle in there. I don't know if it's making any more power, it kind of seems like it pulls harder now, but at least it isn't burning the crap out of my hand now when I'm buried in a long bucking it up like the OEM top port muffler did. That was the entire motivation for building the new muffler. What do you think about mufflers with the baffle in them? Would you leave it in there or take the muffler apart and remove the baffle? Is there anything I could do to increase the performance of this muffler? It does seem to be working good, the throttle response is nice and snappy, I'm happy with it so far in the 4-5 tanks of fuel I've ran through it. But if I can get a bit more out of it, I'm up to doing it
I have watched several chainsaw videos where they hollow out the mufflers and make the exit hole larger VS an untouched stock muffler and the modified mufflers always make more power as proven on a dyno
Just watched this video. Saw Ironhorse put this style pipe on a saw a couple of years ago. I built one for my Stihl 039, it works. Saw is much snappier. Stock and modded saw
I didn't know you were a road racing fan. I'm from Oklahoma and used to be a race bike technician for HSBK racing with P.J. Jacobson riding Moto America for us.
Go to walmart, they sell 1/16 rods, for stick, fast hot flash tacks stacked together will work just fine and look like dimes, dont be afraid of the heat, high hea mean fast travel means less heat input, only thing with 8th is weight otherwise should be no diffrent really
That's a great saw and wicked pipe. How much to build me one Tinman. I'd love to try it out on my 268 stock. Let me know an I'm in. TC great content again. MahaloTinman🤙🤙🤙...Tdawg
People don't realize how much power it takes just to pump air through the engine. The parasitic losses from the flywheel fan, pumping air, and the chain are huge.
I...personally mig or tig almost everything that small, but any welding or braizing process will work absolutely same end result if you know what ur doing, if ur good at braizing, whip out the torch, will be more than adequate
Braizing yields around 40sum thousand tensile strength standard welding is standard around 60 to 70 thousand for perspective do its way strong enough, I've made hydraulic fittings...mate how they shouldn't braizing many times and always holds also for dissimilar metals rather tig or torch brazing
So many variants of building a pipe. Not for tin man necessarily but for the commenters. Hot air goes up cold air goes down. Might help others with building a pipe!
Hi Tinman my name is Tyler McLaughlin and I run a 272xp for cutting Cedar blocks currently having a small issue with getting my oiler to push enough oil and was wondering what is your favorite muffler say from Amazon ?
The single exit farmertec with enlarging the exit and shoving the pipe down at an angle to the corner and welding it in is a effective very easy and fast muff mode to make, blow that hole out bigger slipped bigger piece in a out 3/4 t 2 inches, burner in, roughly 5 min fix
I like my saws nice and warm, like holding a Ferrari in your hands. I built myself a 350 and it runs different than the others I have done. It doesn't have that pop/cackle at idle. I used a lot of epoxy in the engine to improve flow, so maybe that's why, I dunno. I think I'm going to try making one of those pipes and see what happens. It's just over 5hp right now.
nice pipe ! just finished my 262xp rebuild i see that the exhaust is not really great , the carbon just shoot on the cylinder when theres no screen on it. it will be hearthbreaking to sell this saw ! My first one
i remember a honda hrc engineer saying they got over 200hp out of the honda nsr500 after spending months on pipe design. Then suzuki basically was allowed to darn near copy the nsr500 entire engine design.
Mr. Tinman my main saw is a stock 1984 Husqvarna 181 se would that size pipe be a good size? Or should I look for something slightly bigger in diameter.
Had a friend who worked in a racing speed boat shop and they would spend days trimming pipes and sometime a whoops moment would come along and another set had to be built. The word extractor seems to fit the name for these builds. What does everyone think. Cheers everyone
I'm modding the muffler on my cs590 so should I gut the original and make 2 small pipes coming out out the front or put am single pipe coming out the side of the saw? Appreciate your response if you happen to answer. It's a new saw
Man that saw sounds mean😂 best part about performance mufflers they sound amazing but they also make the saw preform ten times better. I like how there just not all noise it actually serves a purpose😎
Tinman, have you ever experimented putting a pipe like this on the newer husky’s? Like your 562xp? I haven’t seen much out there other than a mod to the can.
The pipe is a nice design it's right up there with uncle Harvey's dual scrench pipe , but the best sounding chainsaw I ever heard was the old echo 650 evl , you knew what the saw was when you heard them running in the woods !
A tuned pipe sucks! Lol Would the size of a stock muffler act like a chamber? Many you could make a pipe that works on 1/2-1/4 waves that would be smaller?
Sound a lot quieter muffler to me and I hope it heats up where you at I live in the mountains in Northern California and we had over 4 ft of snow it’s slowly warming up hear bottom line I feel for you
The second problem with the stock muffler is the port size is larger then the exit. It will create back pressure preventing the air pump from getting the bad air out.
i have thought about this a lot; when i see 2 stroke motorbikes/snow machines and such, they always have a HUGE expansion chamber that takes in all the expelled gases and slowly funnels them out to a small outlet far from the (large) expansion portion. I have played around with this and one can either just straight shot the exhaust like 60s era saws, or copy the YZ80, CR 80 type expansion chamber that slowly funnel them to a small outlet. i believe that 2 strokes do not like immediate back pressure, they want time to have the spent gases to expand and draw gases slowly out.
In a saw, i think the best would be to leave the large immediate expansion chamber and weld in a tapered outlet pipe.
Triaxial balance = there ain’t no free lunch!
Generally speaking, the more power that you get from anything (except exhaust) the less life that you get from it. 100hp from a little Honda is doable at the expense of total lifetime. Exhaust is a different animal. Take headers on automotive for example. Longer engine life, more MPG’s, better fuel economy. People say that they are louder, well that depends on other things like what they selected for mufflers. Maybe more tinny but not louder note in and of itself. Tinnier only because of less thickness. I’m with you on everything that you’ve said here every since I’ve tuned in and subscribed. I don’t generally comment, but this one “sang” to me in a way that most people just don’t normally understand.
Thank you Tinman for everything that you do and everything that you have done. I LIKE IT 👍 Just keep up your normal phenomenally good work. Excellent stuff my man.
Just got caught up on recent videos. The video on checking cylinder and cleaning the bore made me double back on reassembly of my echo cs302! Glad that was covered. Just finished restoring a 1952 Strunk 3-19. That project took 4 months and the saw I found out was built in my home town of Coatesville Pa. Thank you for all your help. Think I have a new sickness!!!
It's worth noting that more air equates to more fuel, which is more oil to the bearings. More power is better, until the heat becomes excessive... Typically good tuning makes for better distributed pressures on the crank and bearings. Finding efficiency is a fun game!
Pipe sounds great!
That was some good solid information, easy flow of gasses and ease of use . Great video 👍🇬🇧
You can add a fairly large spacer where the gasket goes and increase the capacity of air the stock muffler holds which is a easy cheap way of adding a little air coushion kinda like an expansion chamber. I like what you do on your channel man. I've built old school saws for a long time. Mostly old steel body stuff but just ordered a new 550 xp to port and see what the new stuff is capable of lol. From what I'm seeing the new saws rip as is and with some port work should be little monsters.
One of the thing i like the most is that the muffler isn't sitting so close to the crank cases. The amount of heat sinking into the front of the case is huge especially when you are blocking up big logs and there isn't much air flow at the front of the saw. Plus, we all need more crack in our lives(not the drug kind). Cheers Tinman. That Harvey knows a thing or two.
That’s actually a great point. Temperature is the anti-supercharger. Higher temperature = less fuel + less oxygen at the same pressure.
2 strokes most definitely want an expansion chamber and a funnel to a small outlet. The size outlet determines the higher or lower... Rpm where the power is delivered. The larger expansion chamber gives a cushion of air and increases the usable power. Large expansion chambers are a must in high performance 2 strokes in my opinion. Look into dirt bikes, snowmobile, and mostly into gas powered rc cars and rc planes
Hi my friend. Would love to see a comparison video of that saw cutting with that pipe vs the old muffler u had on it .
Hey Tinman, thank you for sharing your information that you have learned.
👊✊👊
Great show .!!!!! Keep it coming brother. 🦾🌙☀️🔥
Good old CANADA 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦 it went from minus 32 to plus 3 in 24 hours here in ONTARIO crazy weather part of being 🇨🇦🇨🇦 French toast maple syrop and sausages lol don't forget bacon🥞🥞🥞🥞🥞😁😁😁😁✊✊✊ cold weather stay inside breakfast ,warm everyone's heart♥️♥️be safe everyone
Try 2 below maine
With that design, it would be cool if you made the thicker tube longer, then welded a big nut on the end, with a big bolt on it, then you could have an adjustable length from the exhaust port to the flat end of the straight shot, where the sound/exhaust pulses bounce off, to see if you could get the exhaust gasses to keep intake charge in better, like a tuned pipe on a dirt bike. Can't remember what it's called, scavenging? Anyway, great channel, keep it up.
I agree about the tuned pipe... If I'm gonna have that monstrosity on my saw, I want it to make substantial power. A turbo should give the back pressure I need...
I have 2 mac 10-10's and I wonder how a combo of both this style of pipe and the one you made for bucking would look/work. Awsome video and exceptional explanations as always Tinman!
I have a Mac 10-10 also and I was wondering the same thing
Love watching and listening to saws dancing on the table 🤪
So maybe dumb question, but if going through all this trouble to make the muffler that will flow better, why not just go without one?
That's a great question. 2 strokes need to scavenge some of the unburnt fuel and exhaust that is sent out of the exhaust port.
So if you run one without a pipe then tend to lack power and run lean.
@@tinmanssaws I see, makes sense now. Thanks 👌
I just built a muffler mod for my 372xp from one of the chinese aftermarket "high performance" mufflers with the side pipe exhaust. I cut out the factory exhaust pipe which was tiny, it would have been a close fit for a pencil... and opened up the hole and welded in a piece of 3/4 schedule 40 pipe(.680" ID) trying to keep as close to the 60-70% rule as I could with what I had on hand. This muffler has the baffle in it, but (looking from the back of the saw to the front as you're holding it) it has a huge port in the baffle at the bottom right corner to let the exhaust gas flow from the rear chamber of the muffler to the front chamber. I didn't alter any of the baffle. I made my exhaust outlet pipe long enough that it extends inside the muffler to about 3/4" from the left side of the muffler, and exhausts nearly straight out the right side, just in front of the chain brake handle. It has that "POP" in the exhaust, and sitting on the ground at idle, I can see it blowing saw chips around 3-5 feet away or more. It really flows the exhaust out, much better than I ever expected it would with the baffle in there. I don't know if it's making any more power, it kind of seems like it pulls harder now, but at least it isn't burning the crap out of my hand now when I'm buried in a long bucking it up like the OEM top port muffler did. That was the entire motivation for building the new muffler.
What do you think about mufflers with the baffle in them? Would you leave it in there or take the muffler apart and remove the baffle? Is there anything I could do to increase the performance of this muffler? It does seem to be working good, the throttle response is nice and snappy, I'm happy with it so far in the 4-5 tanks of fuel I've ran through it. But if I can get a bit more out of it, I'm up to doing it
I have watched several chainsaw videos where they hollow out the mufflers and make the exit hole larger VS an untouched stock muffler and the modified mufflers always make more power as proven on a dyno
Between you, Harvey and Hopper about every question you could think of can be found
Hey Tinman thanks again for more interesting viewing, and a thought towards another project for the list…..haha
Great info Tubman.
Thank you 👊
Looking good Tinman 👍.
Just fixed my welding partners sons stihl today, sap had the linkages and spring in handle totally stuck in pine sap, and give it a tune up
Lovin it! Great bench talk!
Thanks again. Bruce from Alberta
Just watched this video. Saw Ironhorse put this style pipe on a saw a couple of years ago. I built one for my Stihl 039, it works. Saw is much snappier. Stock and modded saw
Thanks Tinman. I like this style of pipe I'm trying one right now it pulls good. Sounds good. It's on my 372xp
What are we going to build next.
Oil mix 1:33 ?
I didn't know you were a road racing fan. I'm from Oklahoma and used to be a race bike technician for HSBK racing with P.J. Jacobson riding Moto America for us.
I did one with dual exit and my goodness what an animal my 372!
Same here on bb ported, harves design I call it the sink faucet yeah it works
Good job brother!!! Airborne55! Here.
Tinman how about an anodized aluminum one just like that been on my mind for awhile and I got all the stuff and be a major heat sink...thoughts?
Great video sharing
Great video. I only have a stick welder so thin pipe is a challenge, what’s your thoughts on 1/8 pipe?
if you get thinner electrodes you can weld thin stuff. Id just practice before burn holes in your finished product.
Go to walmart, they sell 1/16 rods, for stick, fast hot flash tacks stacked together will work just fine and look like dimes, dont be afraid of the heat, high hea mean fast travel means less heat input, only thing with 8th is weight otherwise should be no diffrent really
That's a great saw and wicked pipe. How much to build me one Tinman. I'd love to try it out on my 268 stock. Let me know an I'm in. TC great content again. MahaloTinman🤙🤙🤙...Tdawg
Hey Tinman have you done any pipes for a 572 or plan on doing any?
People don't realize how much power it takes just to pump air through the engine. The parasitic losses from the flywheel fan, pumping air, and the chain are huge.
I understand Tinman, keep up the good work!! Ken
Hey Tinman which welding do you normally use on the pipes? Can you braze it or is that not strong enough?
I use a 110 arc welder
Braze works for sure, I’ve welded a couple using the tig gun but have had better luck drilling a hole and using a muffler outlet
I...personally mig or tig almost everything that small, but any welding or braizing process will work absolutely same end result if you know what ur doing, if ur good at braizing, whip out the torch, will be more than adequate
Braizing yields around 40sum thousand tensile strength standard welding is standard around 60 to 70 thousand for perspective do its way strong enough, I've made hydraulic fittings...mate how they shouldn't braizing many times and always holds also for dissimilar metals rather tig or torch brazing
Thanks guys, all good info. I have been planning a pipe for my Stihl but I don't have an electric welder so I was going to just braze it ☝.
Great video sir!!❤️
Good class you have Good 👍 times sawrus Trees-R-Us Hibud
Double dawg dare you to just put three 3/16 wholes in the lower portion of the stock can.
I've got a 220 mig welder, I just need the steel to make the pipes!
Autozone, exhaust section, get u hooked yp
Very cool man
Great video good information
If you ever get down to Virginia please let me know...I would like to meet you!
So many variants of building a pipe. Not for tin man necessarily but for the commenters. Hot air goes up cold air goes down. Might help others with building a pipe!
Love to know all the diameters on the pipe id love to try a couple on a couple saws of mine 066mag an a ms461.
You can use some thin pipe to save weight.. it does not need to be made from 3mm pipe
Great channel!! Love it!
Not sure how yours turned out so quiet my ironhorse style pipe is ridiculous loud and I love it on my 372xp big bore ported saw
Hi Tinman my name is Tyler McLaughlin and I run a 272xp for cutting Cedar blocks currently having a small issue with getting my oiler to push enough oil and was wondering what is your favorite muffler say from Amazon ?
The single exit farmertec with enlarging the exit and shoving the pipe down at an angle to the corner and welding it in is a effective very easy and fast muff mode to make, blow that hole out bigger slipped bigger piece in a out 3/4 t 2 inches, burner in, roughly 5 min fix
I like my saws nice and warm, like holding a Ferrari in your hands.
I built myself a 350 and it runs different than the others I have done. It doesn't have that pop/cackle at idle. I used a lot of epoxy in the engine to improve flow, so maybe that's why, I dunno. I think I'm going to try making one of those pipes and see what happens. It's just over 5hp right now.
Nice. Has this style been tried on an Echo 501P?
I like making them out of aluminum
I would call that a resonant muffler. Definitely not a tuned pipe.
Pipe must not extend beyond dogs... got it.
I wonder if using a Tesla valve type of design would work for an exhaust 🤔
Thats the fun of this stuff, you never know what's going to work.
nice pipe ! just finished my 262xp rebuild i see that the exhaust is not really great , the carbon just shoot on the cylinder when theres no screen on it. it will be hearthbreaking to sell this saw ! My first one
i remember a honda hrc engineer saying they got over 200hp out of the honda nsr500 after spending months on pipe design. Then suzuki basically was allowed to darn near copy the nsr500 entire engine design.
some thing fell out at 19.35
Probably a muffler bearing
In future i would make a pipe like this for my 372 :) this pipe is a beast ;)
What's your thoughts on a 562 xp pipe mod
Mr. Tinman my main saw is a stock 1984 Husqvarna 181 se would that size pipe be a good size? Or should I look for something slightly bigger in diameter.
Hey man..Iam keen to pipe my hasqavarna 272xp.But am not 100% sure is reliable. Please advise.
You want to sell that echo bar mounted on shelf??
What do you think of the bark box? Do they help with cooling and performance?
Hi im from Fiji island. Wats the difference between 272xp and 281. Can we use 272 piston din 281xp and viceverser
Had a friend who worked in a racing speed boat shop and they would spend days trimming pipes and sometime a whoops moment would come along and another set had to be built. The word extractor seems to fit the name for these builds. What does everyone think. Cheers everyone
Nice
thank you tinny!
Would this work with a 455 rancher husky
Great job
I'm modding the muffler on my cs590 so should I gut the original and make 2 small pipes coming out out the front or put am single pipe coming out the side of the saw? Appreciate your response if you happen to answer. It's a new saw
Man that saw sounds mean😂 best part about performance mufflers they sound amazing but they also make the saw preform ten times better. I like how there just not all noise it actually serves a purpose😎
TINMAN LOVES THAT SAW
Tinman, have you ever experimented putting a pipe like this on the newer husky’s? Like your 562xp? I haven’t seen much out there other than a mod to the can.
I'd like to pioe my 562 but haven't had the time to build one.
@@tinmanssaws right on. I’ll wait patiently lol. Saying hello from up north in Flin Flon. Take care Tinman ✌️
Love this pipe!!
How did you kill it with the pull rope?
The pipe is a nice design it's right up there with uncle Harvey's dual scrench pipe , but the best sounding chainsaw I ever heard was the old echo 650 evl , you knew what the saw was when you heard them running in the woods !
A tuned pipe sucks!
Lol
Would the size of a stock muffler act like a chamber? Many you could make a pipe that works on 1/2-1/4 waves that would be smaller?
Single exit pipes are king
Thank you!!
TINMAN what diameter is the chrome exhaust tip please
3/4"👍 @12:20
Edit: the timestamp was correct at least😅
@@skravlesen thx buddy😁😁✊✊✊
It's 3/4" I'd Stevie
What size pipe would you put on a 1998 141 husky
Sound a lot quieter muffler to me and I hope it heats up where you at I live in the mountains in Northern California and we had over 4 ft of snow it’s slowly warming up hear bottom line I feel for you
The second problem with the stock muffler is the port size is larger then the exit. It will create back pressure preventing the air pump from getting the bad air out.
John's Custom saws has expansion chamber pipe check it out!
1:40 oil mix is ok ?
A “practical pipe” or a tuned pipe, one you can use and one looks cool and might have a little advantage. I’ll choose the practical pipe more often.
can u please help me locate cylinder and piston for my jonsered cs2165 turbo pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
I'm sure Buckin already showed you tinman
Give me the word Tinman and I’ll make you a nice stainless exhaust.
evening tinman!!🙋
Evenin joneszzy
Just put more wood on the fire! Keep it hot lol.
Tinman I sent you my pipe mod to your Instagram don't think you seen it
“4 1/2” to fit all this pipe in there” all I need most days. 😜
I run a pipe off of my cr 500 dirtbike on my saw
Great show .!!!!! Keep it coming brother. 🦾🌙☀️🔥
can u please help me locate cylinder and piston for my jonsered cs2165 turbo pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee