How Bad Parking Crashed This Plane | Crash Of Loganair Flight 670A
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- Опубликовано: 29 мар 2021
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This is the story of logan air 670A. It was the 27th of february 2001, the night was cold just one degree over freezing or 34 degrees fahrenheit. A short 360-100 landed at Edinburgh airport after completing the day's flights. The plane taxied to the stands where it would spend the night. Before heading out for the night they refueled the plane with 3000 pounds or 1300 kilos of fuel. The plane needed to head back out at 4 am so fueling the plane now would save time for the next crew.
But mother nature had other plans for the crew and the plane. By 2 am the airport was closed as a result of the severe weather, the snow pounded the airport and winds of upto 43 knots battered the planes. By 6 am the crew were told that the airport would not open for a few more hours, so the crew made the best of the situation. They secured the plane the best they could, they put straps on the propellers, covered up the pitot tubes and then retired to the crew room to get out of the biting cold. The wind and snow didn't let up till 10 am the next day.
By 3 pm they were ready to take the plane from Edinburgh to Belfast, this was a flight that was delayed by the storm. They started the engines but immediately had some issues , the right hand engine was starting and stopping. The crew tried their best, but soon they had to ask for engineering assistance, the generator in the right hand engine just wouldn't work. With the engineer made the changes and ran the engine for about 15 minutes to see if the fix had worked, they ran the engine again for 15 minutes to double check. The engine worked fine, before the engineer left the engineer checked the oil levels and checked the surface of the plane for ice, the oil levels were fine and there wasn't a whole lot of ice on the surface of the plane.
With that the engines were started and both engines functioned for about 20 minutes at the stands with no issues. By 5:10 pm the plane was taxiing to runway 06. As they taxied, they went through the checklists, icing was a concern that was on the pilots minds. The captain wanted to cycle the landing gear once in the air to make sure that it was free of ice and slush, that's the kind of things that they talked about as they taxied.
The plane took off, as they had talked about before the captain cycled the landing gear to get rid of any ice on them, the gears were retracted and then extended and then retracted again. As the plane breached 1200 feet they pulled back the engines to climb power as they did. The crew carried out the after takeoff checks on the plane. The captain asked the first officer to turn on all the anti icing systems. The captain was busy tuning the to scottish ATCC and the first officer was busy flipping switches. As the switches were flipped both engines died. They had just suffered a dual engine flameout at 2200 feet.
The captain immediately put out a mayday call Quote "MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY THIS IS LOGAN SIX SEVEN ZERO ALPHA WE'VE HAD A DOUBLE ENGINE FAILURE REPEAT A DOUBLE ENGINE FAILURE", end quote 
Наука
Engineers, pilots and technical people are preventing these sorts of accidents all day and every day....and no one gives a second thought, except the guys who spot them, at the time. As I always say, attention to detail is paramount. Great video, thank you.
Another excellent episode. Well done! As an active test pilot, one technique I use (and many pilots do also) is to never make big changes to both engines at once. e.g. turn on anti-ice, turn off fuel pumps, change tanks ONE at a time. Allow everything to stabilize for a few seconds, check the gauges, then do the other side. It’s a simple precaution that might have saved the lives of those poor folks,
Wow I didn’t know that’s how it’s supposed to be done. Good info!
We did the same in our 421.
@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation it's not necessarily how it's done. It's how old test pilots do it. That's how they get to be old. Great comment.
@@jiyushugi1085 Shugi you said it best. Getting wet is what you signed up for.
@@jiyushugi1085 unless I herd it wrong, they did not have any plugs, neither did the airport, correct me if I'm wrong, ty!
I was a commercial pilot for almost 40 years. My last assignment was flying a Pilatus PC 12. I was constantly aware of the condition of the engine. A charter planes flys to a place and then may wait an hour or two hours sometimes five hours. We would always put our covers on the airplanes engine and the pitot covers as well. I found it especially helpful in times of cold if you did it right after the airplane shut down it would hold temperature in the engine for hours to make for a much easier start. In the summertime I would do just the opposite The aircraft would be pointed into the wind and I would open the cowlings to let the heat out for a cooler start.
I was a Shorts SD-360 Captain 20 years ago and I regularly operated night cargo flights throughout the UK. I was flying out of Edinburgh when this accident occurred and I can remember the adverse weather conditions at the time. We always used the engine blanks and prop ties if leaving the aircraft outside overnight which would have prevented this tragedy.
But if ice gets in the engine how did you get rid of it - just run the engines for longer before flight?
Yes, they may not have had ready made plugs available, but surely a mechanic at the airport could have made *something* to do the job? It would be nice of course if planes spending an overnight at an airport in a cold location could be put into a hangar. Would building that type of “garage” to protect planes be feasible? I travel on Loganair to LSI quite frequently so I’m always concerned to hear about accidents. The runway’s bad enough, just about big enough but there are two runways forming a cross. One landing has you feeling like you’re about to land on the rocks and the other needs a road to close if a plane comes in to land! They already have fog to contend with, which can close the airport. My husband should have worked at Sullom Voe, then we’d be able to fly in and out of Scatsa, which as well as being more conveniently located, has a great runway which larger planes with jet engines can use - unlike Loganair which fly prop planes, making the journey sound like you’re flying with an angry wasp. My husband had a job which involved ferrying air crews around and pilots used to say they didn’t like landing at Sumburgh. 🙁
@@andrewstorm8240 ... And leave the de-icing vanes alone or stagger their operation.
@@moiraatkinson the Scatsta runway was shorter than both Sumburgh runways
I enjoy the fact that you have a mix of large and small plane incidents on your channel, it really is interesting to see how the two differ. Thanks for feeding my aircraft incident curiosity!
More important to recognise how SIMILAR the accidents often are.
They both end with gravity winning.
There are more planes in the oceans, than there are submarines in the sky. We haven't left any up there yet.
@@MrHitoro That is a good quote sir, sad but true.
My god, that really is a sad story, those poor guy's, great job, that's why i really like your channel,it's so diverse.
This is probably one of the the saddest avoidable crashes ever!
I remember reading some years ago about a plane that was parked without pitot tube covers. Wasps built a nest that blocked a pitot tube; not noticed, caused a crash.
It was an air France flight out off I think Brazil at night.Went down over the ocean with loss off all life when the pilots stalled it when they lost both ASI.
In the Dominican Republic, I was thinking of that one too.
@@virginiaviola5097 I recalled it was a Turkish flight but turns out you are also right: It was Birgenair 301, Turkish subsidiary, taking off at Puerto Plato bound for Frankfurt.
It was birgenair
I enjoy all your videos. I am a commercial truck driver in the USA and I have a different take on what you report. It's usually something that starts out small and then grows into a major problem. I keep this in mind when preparing for a trip.
I look forward to new videos each week.
Great channel
Great observation. Yes, it seems that very very few major accidents are the result of one thing going wrong. It is often several smaller things that lead to a horrible outcome.
Hence the term 'Swiss Cheese Model'.
How very true indeed.
I put in cowl plugs even when my aircraft is in the hangar. Quite surprising that this company didn't provide them to the crew. Birbs or other critters can get in there very quickly, particularly when looking for a warm place to sleep on a cold night.
I believe the issue was that they didn’t have an engineering presence at Edinburgh and hadn’t expected to be staying there for long at all. Loganair was a very small operator at the time with few resources.
*+Laura ji* wikipedia.org/wiki/-ji
understandable as that may be... (and as a species i am not even a big fan of Homo sapiens) it does sadden, even frustrate one to see totally avoidable loss of lives.
and if the picture portrayed here is corrected.. those two people 😔 lost theirs.. for what was not really entirely their lapse.. but mostly them being in a forced situation.
.
as in, here in Bharat wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhārat_Gaṇarājya during the sudden, haphazard l9codown.. poorest of the poor ..migrant labourers did "walk" hundreds of.. even thousands kilometres back to their villages.
Almost all siffered a lot and many perished ... it cannot be entirely their own mistake or bad decisions.. if they were forced.. sort of.
.
similarly, the pilots not realising the danger of leabing the engines at the mercy of weather... during those 10-12 hours.. could be a lapse or error in judgement.
but thereafter.. they were incapacitated by the lack of their training or absence of proper manuals or company's S.O.P.s
.
.
i.. now (after aging) am not really an argumentative type person.
.
just ranted something for the heck of it.
There’s no reason not to be a big fan of humans
@@sailaab
unnecessary rant
@@ChicagoMel23 Agreed! Humans are an amazing bunch. #teamhuman
Some 40+ years ago, I used work for an operator that flew the SD-330, the twin-tailed version, and this potential was never covered in training.
No I don't believe it was covered in any manuals, and it was SOP to put both de-icers on simultaneously. That was changed after the accident.
What a crazy reason to die. Situational awareness in winter weather is so important. Killed by a couple of misplaced snowballs really. Good video as always. Thanks Mini
Parking is one thing, Plugging is everything.
Good show.
yep, i think that title is misleading
@@ursodermatt8809 Does parking your car not include measures to prevent the car from moving uncommanded? Be it low gear and connected to the engine, be it the parking brake, be it turning the wheels towards the curb (AIUI required in San Francisco due very steep roads in part)?
@@advorak8529
the airplane was not parked in a steep street in san francisco and rolled off because the front wheel was not turned towards the curb.
did you actually watch the whole video?
@@ursodermatt8809 I am sorry to have failed you; my estimation of what normal people can read and with a bit of thought *understand* (versus what needs to be blended and spoon fed) was obviously a gross overestimation.
@@ursodermatt8809 I think it was a reference to being parked facing *into* the wind. Sure the plugs would have prevented it, but it's also possible facing the other way would have too. Not as easy to say for certain, but I think that's what the title was referring too and I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to him that it wasn't intended to be misleading.
The engineer on this flight was the younger brother of a friend of mine. They lived up the road from us. I was googling old friends when I found reports of the crash 2 decades later. Very sad.
Condolences to Russell's mother and father Doreen and Barry and his brother Mark.
Pity how few aircraft survive ditching. They got it nice and slow but I wonder about vertical velocity.
Water landings for non-seaplanes is really difficult. Even perfect attempts fail. But the sea conditions weren't anywhere near perfect.
Reading a bit more, they touched down at 86 knots, with about a 7 degree nose-up attitude. They found the cockpit buried 45 degrees nose-down in the sand, and the tail assembly had torn off. I get the impression that they did everything right. The tail hit and bounced first, or caught a wave during landing, shoving it into a hard nose down attitude. The accident report says the "sea state 5 and sea swell 2", which would have been 8 to 13 ft (2.5 to 4 m) waves, with a long distance between waves.
If you want more, read the Wikipedia page on the incident, and follow the links at the bottom for more official detail.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loganair_Flight_670A
@@JWSmythe And it was freezing out. i don't think i could swim that far in calm seas, much less freezing and swelling.
Reading this accident report and the Miracle on the Hudson (Captain Sully) NTSB report, they both point out that ditching certification and procedures are hot garbage, being impossible without power or under any but the most perfect of circumstances. (And if your plane has power, _why_ are you ditching again?)
@@meritwolf219 They way Sully did it was to actually hit the water faster than a normal landing as to keep at a 0 degree pitch attitude. Hitting tail first will cause a breakup and flipping of the plane. Of course that's one of the things he had going for him along with glass smooth waters and nearby ferry boats.
Turn de-icing on one engine , wait for some time? Is that practical to include in the flight manual?
It actually is.
'Some time' is usually about 10 seconds.
I flew the SD-360 back then and that’s what we did. It would have possibly resulted in a single engine return instead of a dual flameout and a fatal ditching.
I used to fly the Dash-8. Whenever there where icing conditions, during, preflight, we had to check the air intake, also by touch, to see if any icing was present. Touch is especially important for Clear ice.
Air Canada Flight 621. There is an interesting air accident. Air Canada flight 621 what's flying Montreal to Los angeles-- with a stopover in Toronto. The flight was being flown by a two or three months old DC 8. The pilot and co-pilot we're discussing when to arm the ground spoilers. Both of which were against company procedure. When the captain began the flare he asked the copilot the arm the spoilers. Instead the co-pilot accidentally deployed the spoilers which caused the airplane to rapidly sink. The pilot realized what happened and he applied full power. They hit the ground hard, which caused the number for engine and pylon the break off the airplane. That cause the fuel leak, which was set on fire for sparking wires as they climbed out to try again at the Landing. The runway they wanted was closed because of the debris from where the engine fell off. Then there was an explosion, followed by second explosion, which is rapidly followed by a third explosion. In these explosions the number three engine and pylon came off, and the right-wing was destroyed, which caused airplane to nose dive into the ground. Sorry to say all 109 people on the airplane perished.
This ones on the list :)
thank you for adding the PayPal and Discord links🙂 and double thanks for yet another👌🏽 excellent production!
As always, well researched, explained and entertaining. Thank you.
I've watched many a Short 300 land, and this sim footage is pretty accurate. These and Twin Otters can fly very slowly (comparatively), so the pilot ends up in a very nose-down "glide path" to avoid the approach taking all week while other aircraft are waiting behind them.
Thanks for a great video, very good explained, greetings from Sweden.
Good to see an Air Crash Investigation on a small plane. Great video 👏
At first I thought the pitot tubes hadn’t been uncovered as has happened in some videos.
Being unaware there were such things as engine vent covers, and not having them available to begin with, I would have thought parking downwind instead of into the wind would have made a lot of sense.
I would have parked downwind even with the covers on, but that’s just me.
Keep up the great work. You have come such a long way since you started doing these.
I get more and more out of these videos as you continue with more technical info and detailed data!
Great vlog as always!
Yet another well thought out and well done video, and shame on Loganair for their shoddy procedures. For the many years i worked with prop aircraft, plugs and ties were ALWAYS used when an aircraft was done for the day regardless of where the aircraft was parked or what the forecast was. And if parked on the ramp for a few hours with any precip in the forecast, especially in the winter, again, plugs and ties.
Wait, you and disaster breakdown posted a video about this same incident 6 hours apart? Is this a secret collab? Love both of your channels!!
Yeah lol it’s a total coincidence
@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation well they’re both amazing videos! Hopefully you guys can both get more attention from the coincidence!
Thank you for this video :)
Thanks again bro for the great job you're doing! One suggestion, do something with the mic, please. The voice recording is not up to the level. Thank you!) Keep up the good work!
Great reports. Thanks.
I feel really bad for these pilots. They did everything right, and made a textbook ditching. I feel like these pilots deserved better. If drunk drivers survive their self induced crashes, these pilots should have survived.
Indeed, and they saved lives on the ground too, which wasn't mentioned. Incredible bravery.
The captain was a lovely man, and a friend of mine. We flew together. This accident completely devastated me (and the entire company, of course). It was a very small company at that time, and like a big family. Tbh, I nearly quit after this, as I didn't handle it well at all. No external support was offered at the time. Only "speak to your manager". I mean, why? They had no bereavement credentials. We just supported each other, and tried to carry on as best we could. It was awful.
Bravo, Sir, another fine episode!! Sympathies and prayers for the deceased.
Nice your subs are increasing
Great video i was a passenger on a Hawker in a remote area of Canada that suffered a engine flame out in ice the pilot did not resstart or make ant changes to second engine and we landed without incident
It was 1 degree over freezing, or 34 degrees Fahrenheit.
Freezing is 32 Fahrenheit btw.
Good video. The AAIB report is worth reading too. The pilots had no chance. I live about 4km from the crash site. Minor point, the actual crash site is actually about 2 km West of where it is shown on the video. The pilots headed out to the Forth, and when the engines failed steered back towards an open bit of shoreline - esplanade- but couldn't reach it. The flight was carrying Royal Mail to Belfast
A complement to your watchers - wow - intelligent thoughtful polite useful comments -- what an amazing idea. Sure won't see that much on the internet.
This reminds me of the crash of the UND research citation back in the early 2000s. They were doing icing research, and when the pilots noticed icing on the wings, they activated the deicing system. However what the pilots couldn't see was the large amount of icing on the rim and the engine nacelles. Once the deicing system was activated the ice was melted enough to where it came off of the engine nacelle rim, and emidiatly was sucked into the engines, killing them both at the same time. Luckily it was put down in a field somewhere and there were no casualties
Thanxx for subtitles
Me too.....I'm mostly deaf and without subtitles, I couldn't enjoy the videos.
Glad to hear that they’re now working!
@@rrknl5187 : We ALL may as well be deaf, because NO ONE can hear this video. It sounds like it was recorded with the level control turned all the way down to zero. ☹
Good video bro 👍🇬🇧
Good video; bad audio. ☹
Great channel.
Keep it up, mate! I just found your videos.
There is clearly a lot of work that you put into these videos, and I appreciate it, but can you invest a bit more in the sound quality? If you need budget for this, please have a patron or something like that
Totally agree -- I hate to complain because I know this guy put a lot of work into producing this video, but the audio level is way too low.
That's a pretty good rendition of Edinburgh airport. Landing from west, I guess, taking off eastwards. The buildings look like placeholders but the coastline makes sense. The area where they ditched is just next to two boat ports and a road. If they had managed to touch down safely they'd surely have been rescued.
They ditched to help save any casualties on the ground actually. Real heroes.
GREAT VIDEO!
But audio, not so much. 😕
as always, love your videos! I would be willing to help you getting flight sim footage as i have MSFS2020.
Top notch presentation of a much avoided and seemingly obtuse topic - Icing . We've flown in these conditions for over a hundred years yet, we still haven't learned our lessons from generation to generation 😔
I do know that the choice not to fly in bad weather has never led to an accident.
Great report as always. The animations are good too. Is this MSFS?
Actually no it’s FSX!
@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation didn't you use MSFS in some previous videos?
@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation cool. It's very good.
Yeah I try’ to use MSFS where I can
Low audio, but great video, as always!
My Dog enjoyed it.
I just had to turn up my audio
Audio is fine on my end
I have my volume set to the Max and I can just barely hear it. ☹
@@Milesco Maybe ice in your ears ? Have you tried to de-ice them ?
Great video, but very sad outcome.
I'm not sure why I'm so interested in plane crashes but I love your videos
.. perhaps because we learn so much from them, even non-pilots .. cheers.
I love your posts. Unfortunately, this one had poor volume. My volume was full blast, but I had to hold it to my ear to hear it.
Joyce; The solution I use to play RUclips videos with low volume is to use the "open network stream" feature of the freeware VLC video player program. Out of the box the volume can be set up to 125% but a simple change in the settings can boost that to 300%. Problem solved. As a side benefit, all of the pop up advertisement interruptions disappear without having to install pop up blocking software! if this interests you and you are not familiar with the VLC video player reply to this comment and I will provide more details.
@ Joyce : I agree! The volume on this video is terrible. I, too, had to hold my phone right up to my ear to hear it. ☹
Très intéressant, stupéfiant !!
Mais comme on peut lire dans les commentaires, les pilotes auraient pû éviter cette situation en évitant de manipuler les deux moteurs en même temps: d'abord un, voir comment il réagit, puis seulement le deuxième.... Erreur fatale malheureusement...
@@Retroscoop bonne analyse....
I've done this exact flight before. Edinburgh to Belfast. By far the scariest flight I've ever been on. Legit thought we were gonna crash and die. Dude in the aisle across from me had his face in his barf bag the whole time. Only time I've ever seen someone actually use one.
Why is the EDI to BFS or BHD flight so scary? I have done it hundreds of times in jets and props, and there is nothing scary about it at all.
@@paulmca8514 exactly!
Having listened to my Dad, a former Bush Pilot... Duct Tape. If you don't have something to plug the inlets, you make a plan, your engines are your life. He also flew the Short 360 and 330 all over Africa, loved the plane's high wings as it allowed lots more options for landing on unprepared runways vs low wing/engine planes.
Low wing aircraft ingest water when ditching and log the plane down. High engines give you a chance to float for a bit not getting water into the intakes as soon. survive. As in Hudson miracle. Sully.
Good vid
I can't click the sub button again but I do like! thx :)
Why isn't there a flap that can be either manually or electrically deployed over the inlet for periods of downtime? Surely a manual system in particular wouldn't have been too expensive to implement.
Great video as always!
One thing which could improve your videos would be going into what changes (to regulations, mechanics or whatever) were done to avoid repeats.
I am wondering what would have happened if the deicing system would have been engaged prior to taxi and takeoff, although I am assuming that an inspection of the engine before startup would have also revealed the presence of snow and ice in the intake of the engines, giving a chance to clear the obstructions before they formed.
This is a great example of where operator/owner procedures are imposed upon them by the manufacturer to save COST - their should have been deicing(automatic electrically heated outlets for the ice dam build ups DOWNSTREAM, or emergency actuators(like core plugs on a combustion engine, but for ice exhaustion in this instance)) - Imagine buying a car and it's manual said you MUST cover it if parked, otherwise warranty is void!!
Poor sods - they did such a great job of ditching the plane - RIP!
Even though I am just a G.A. pilot I was taught a very important lesson that might apply here. If you chang anything on the aircraft and the aircraft does something bad, you immediately put whatever you changed back the way it was.
That was exactly my thought on the air Peru crash where tape was left on the static ports and the pilots got a stick shaker stall warning after they reduced power. They had simultaneous over-speed and stall warnings and one pilot believed the over-speed warning and the other believed the stall warning. The thing they changed here was the power.
At my company we always ensure to carry an extra set of chocks and always have the plugs and pitot covers and it's an emphasized policy that they are always put on if the plane is to be parked and left unattended for more than 2hours or in bad weather for any length of time. Actually I've noticed other airlines in the country I work in do carry them on their flights too.
I always hate being below 5k feet on takeoff and landing ... no glide distance and if u go all engine failure ur done 4
Brother just try to increase the volume... Keep up the work
Noted! Thanks for letting me know
@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation thanks to you for quality content😊
Is there any chance that you could do United Airlines 624? Everyone focuses on Centralia, PA's famous coal fire, but noone talks about the time a DC-6 crashed just north of the town between Centralia and Aristes.
The reason why it crashed is also quite interesting.
How can it be avoided apart from plugging the cowls? Well, right in front of the vane, there´s a bump where slush can accumulate. Why not make the bypass flow straight through?
Second, when doing anything with the engines, why not allow some time in between. If it goes south, you still have half the power left...
Same with locking the rudders or capping the pitot tubes on the outside. Great idea, until someone forgets to put them on or take them off.
Pitot tubes could receive a burst of air, clearing them out and removing any forgotten caps while in flight. Rudders could be operated with screw jacks, so they don´t need locks. Or make the locks off-centre, so the yoke is in a weird position when entering the cockpit.
It just takes a little imagination, doesn´t it?
I really liked that video, worth staying up late (Sydney Australia) and being sleepy at work tomorrow,
My opinion on preventing incidents/accidents , is to follow your training to the correct standards don’t become complacent, and follow the manufacturer guidelines ,recommendations, planes have become so safe these days, and any manual that you use to pilot these machines has it all spelt out in steps to follow for pilots, mechanics, engineers, ect ,so after this long bla bla bla , I’d say the answer to your question is follow the rules and never take risks,
Do get some sleep haha. You can always watch it when you wake up haha
Don’t bother posting next time.
They didn't take risks. The pilots followed their guidelines. The captain was a well experienced pilot.
It was a one in a million accident that ended in tragedy. Safety and checks really improved after that.
Such a sad and easily avoidable crash. RIP
I worked on a C-141 Air Force plane in Prestwick, Scotland in the mid 80s. Took 36 hours to fix it. The weather was horrible. Flew home to RAF MILDENHALL on the 141, but never ever wanted to see Scotland again!
.. true, yes .. it seems the Scotties live in permanent severe weather .. 🌬️
@@oldcat3439 It was a horrible experience. I was soooooooo cold and wet!!!
@@oldcat3439 it's Scots lol
Really good video content my friend thoroughly enjoyed it thx you . . A simple hanger like structure for the aircraft in the winter months would have saved time money and more importantly human life .. . Sad end to the pilots who fundamentally did nothing worng .. and surely would have been absolutely miffed when Both engines flamed out within a few seconds of each other ...
Good job. I know that when using other kinds of machinery (I am not a pilot) that when you turn something on or off and the machine stops working you turn the thing back the other way. You didn't say if they had tried that fix (though with the youtube video length limits you might not have had time to say so in this video (or maybe pilots are trained for that and it would be obvious to most of your viewers).
Any time you are in a job and you see that people are cutting corners in a way that could eventually cost someone their life, speak up even if you piss everyone off and even if you lose your job because it's better to do everything you can to stop someone from losing their life unnecessarily than it is to go with the work culture that lacks safety and live to see someone else die because of the problems you foresaw. Don't expect to get praise though because it's more likely that you'll get fired but it's still better than having someone's death on your conscience.
Airlines Company fully 100% responsible,
for not providing plugs. Also the instruction
manuel was deficient.
Sometimes high winds can blow the plugs out of the intakes
I wish you wouldn't use the term, "You guys". It's a common phrase which all too many folk use almost automatically but when you think about it, nonsensical, lazy, ugly. Apart from this factor your videos are a masterclass in narrative that, refreshingly, is always delivered succinctly, never a wasted word. If and when you permanently drop that big black blemish I'll consider subscribing.
Seriously?! 🙄🤦🏼♀️
@@lindatannock
Affirmative.
I wonder if heated anti-ice vanes would be enough to counteract the incoming cold air?
I don't envy the authorities in situations like this. I can remember hearing of a crash where a pitot tube was covered and the cover hadn't been removed prior to flight. Now this crash is the reverse. A cover should have been used and wasn't.
It seems like everything that could go wrong did go wrong for these pilots and this was the first time anyone had been in their specific set of circumstances. The same thing could have happened to anyone who pilots this type of aircraft, the mistakes they made were caused by things they didn't know about or weren't trained about. Poor bastards.
Avoidable if the requirement was enforced and if manufacturers were mandated to supply all 'extra' safety features/warnings at no additional charge
I know of no aircraft manufacturer especially smaller than the heavies, ie cessna, beachcraft, the various smaller business jets that don't provide these covers as part of the normal aircraft equipment. I have never seen where they are an optional extra cost accessory.
What about the 20 days of rations? What about the 12 tons of aluminum foil to protect against alien mind probes? Why are they all not available!
@@princeofcupspoc9073 being facetious makes you look like a moron, there are specific features that are "optional extras, I recall some Boeing warnings that were optional extra's, can't remember exactly what but a specific type of warning that alerted the pilots was an optional extra.
Company doesn’t supply cowel plugs. Not available at the airport. Vague procedures. Sounds like a Swiss cheese model.
Landing on the water is not easy and one needs a lot of buoyancy at the front end which would make it a little easier. The landing on the Hudson by Sullenberger was saved all due to the fact that the aircraft had a lot of buoyancy at the font cabin and when the engines dug in the water, the nose went down into the water as the co-pilot described but the buoyancy of the cabin acted as a large floatation bag and the nose lifted up to save everyone. The Miracle of the Hudson was due to the engineering structure of how the front cabin was attached to the fuselage at the top and bottom which acted as a cantilever beam operating in reverse and then the floatation or Archimedes principle came into action. Most single-engined aircraft with fixed undercarriage dig their nose into the water and turn their tail over usually sinking the nose. Paul Mantz landed on the water with multi engines long-nosed aircraft plenty of times but he always had nose buoyancy at the front end and that is what saves an aircraft on water landings.
Looking at the fuselage nose shape of this aircraft the sea landing may have been as follows. The pilots came approached correctly, apart from the wing not being perfectly level. The nose-up attitude before landing was correct but due to the design of the undercarriage fixed pods, these entered the water first and they heavily dragged that lower part, hence the nose dug into the water, where the sudden impulse broke the tail as in Paul Mantz case. UNFORTUNATELY, the nose shape with the drooping nose caused the aircraft to dig in further due to the top curve before the windshield. If that aircraft had a fuller nose that does not increase the drag, while the bottom side of the nose curved up and not a straight run, then the BUOYANCY at the front would have saved the crew. One hazard to say that the crew did not die on impact but were drowned due to the design of the nose not being compatible with water landings. All aircraft should have inflatable bags at the front as we have in cars to stop the aircraft from digging its nose and cartwheeling over. Airbags, as we have in cars at the front, would help all water landing especially single-engined craft.
There were many water landing where the pilots flew in as well as Sully did but THEY DID NOT HAVE THE BUOYANCY that Sully did in his A320.
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Can you do a preflight deicing check? Could they have just ran the engines longer before take off to be sure no ice was still present?
They ran the engines for 15 minutes -- or was it half an hour? I forget -- but that really ought to have been enough. The pilots had no reason to believe there was still a large amount of ice in the engines, especially after all that.
Wow, so many issues
I wonder if they had parked in such a way that the aircraft would be facing away from the weather. Would the accident have been prevented?
Would it be a bad idea to try to jump out from the plane just before hitting the water? I'm not a pilot, but being inside a fragile frame seems worse.
So, if they landed on the water at about 86KTS, that's about 100MPH. Hitting water that fast would be like jumping out of a car speeding on a freeway directly onto the concrete. The metal has some room to crush and you can still have some chance of getting out alive in the case of staying in. Ideally to survive, they'd intentionally nose down towards the water and parachute out of the plane at least a thousand feet up.
Perhaps a dumb question, but how did they end up dying? It wasn't a ground crash, not at the highest speed, and not that far from the shore either. Were they just unable to leave the plane before it sank?
The cockpit went into the ground.
1:11 Wait a minute! You said the snow let up at *10AM!!*
Okay, so here is how the vanes actually work. They narrow the passage in order to accelerate the incoming air and debris particles. The air makes the turn into the screen, but the accelerated heavy particles cannot. As a result, these particles hit a plate aft of the screen and get ejected out the bottom.
ALTITUDE. Not Attitude, lmao. Still great videos.
When you park your plane in any cold wind Block dem Intakes!
They should have slightly cone shaped mesh screens that stay on so that way the snow is not only blocked from even entering the air flow, but is also naturally blown off of the mesh due to the cone shape.
Mesh has a bad tendency of freezing solid and crashing planes
As to how to prevent this kind of failure, it seems to me that maybe had the anti-ice vanes been ooen while it was parked, at least a portion of the ice would have gone out through them. Second, some form of EGR could quickly warm up wherever the ice is found to accumulate, and the path it needs to take to get out of the engine. Third a tempature probe could warn when ice could exist in the engine, and just don't take off until things are warm enough that you know any ice has melted and the water is gone.
Your channel is great! ..... always a really interesting watch - if often very sad as in this case!
With reference to your question about these planes/engines.... - I think all 'prop jets' have fundamental flaws/problems with icing! There have been nurmerous occasions where these type aircraft have met with tragedy due to bad/cold/icing weather!!! - you wouldn't get me on a prop jet!!!!
Also .... you wouldn't get me on a 737 max either......not for a million£ !!!
- I know Boeing have apparently 'sorted' the software however the 737 max IS AREODYNAMICALLY UNSTABLE !!!!! - THE TAIL IS TOO SMALL FOR THE THRUST OF THE NEW ENGINES IN THEIR CURRENT WING POSITION !!!
But that is another controversy!
This incident was very much along the lines of an older vehicle petrol engine suffering carburettor icing in cold weather. It also rather proves the saying that the rules in flying are written in blood. Unfortunately, until something like this happens then the chances that it could happen are often unknown to operators. I imagine the operations manual was substantially rewritten after this...
This plane type looks like it was designed with Lego bricks
1 degrees over freezing is 33 degrees Fahrenheit :P
Please make a video on air alliance flight 1472 which crashes In Patna India on 17th july 2000
It's sad people have to perish in order to learn.
Here are some more recent air crash incident that you may be interested in investigating:
- Sriwijaya Air SJ182, Boeing 737-500, Jakarta to Pontianak route, 09Jan2021
- Lion Air PK-LQP JT 610, Boeing 737 Max 8, Jakarta to Pangkalpinang route
- Ethiopian Airlines, Boeing 737 Max 8, 10Mar2019
I remember seeing this story years ago. Let's hope it's been learnt from.
Or better yet, learned from.
@@bootstrapperwilson7687 really