D&D Railroading is Good Actually
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2023
- Railroading is one of those D&D topics that will never stop being discussed, and it's often because rail roading in DnD is plain bad. But is it? Are people calling railroading things that are just not railroading? Let's talk.
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Plot twist this video is about the importance of public transportation 🚋
I can't explain the intense joy these videos bring me - thank you so much for all the time and effort you pour into these vids, they make me cackle out loud every single time. I hope you have an absolutely wonderful day :)
Railroads ARE very important, especially in the dangerous wilds of DnD, anything could pop out at you!
I LOVE TRAINS
😅 0:12
Based
"Players play their characters like water, they seek the path of least resistance. However, what the players really want is to go through a path that's anything but a straight. So your role as a DM is to set up hurdles so that the players can follow that path of least resistance, and at the end, the shape is as satisfying and pleasing as possible."
- Paraphrased from Brennan Lee Mulligan, on linear storytelling as a DM
Also commented this, and yeap. That played in a loop in my head this whole time.
*runs through every wall*
I’ve just learned that know plot survives first contact with the players. I just try to make sure there is a way to move forward, the way I would do it, but if their way makes sense then cool. I have my plot points on a notebook and by the time they get done with it it it looks like the arcane scribbling of a madman. My main goal is to make the world feel like it’s reacting to the players in the way that Skyrim doesn’t.
@@Belligerent_HeraldI went digital for my notes. It's still a mess.
Paradox choice is good because when you have 3 choices it's not a this is right this is wrong feeling.
I’ve been stressing about whether or not I’m railroading my players with my story, and I thought I was just covering up my restrictions by giving the illusion of choice. This video has helped me realize the difference between railroading and what I’m actually doing; telling a linear story. It’s a huge relief. Thank you, Mr. Demico. Thank you.
Same! I was so worried I was railroading until this video
Illusion of choice is what physical reality gives you anyway, no matter how rich and lucky at birth you may be. None of us is Zeus, at best we get an inhumanly large and unknown number options, but never truly infinite options. We wouldn't even know how to be truly limitless. To make a good game, you just need enough options and satisfying enough limitations to justify the smaller selection to trigger the same illusion.
Actually I was feeling the exact same way 😅
What your doing is fine, your players will most likely enjoy it if done right. Just don't tell the internet or they will cry and say how your a horrible DM.
If you don't have a permanent DM character, and the party isn't doing that characters quest, and the DM isn't hooking up with players both in-game and IRL, and if the DM isn't secretly gaslighting a player about how everyone feels about their character, then you're probably good.
I have this strange dilemma where I always run linear storytelling, and get told by my players they don't like it because it's too sandbox.
H.... HOW???
I guess make the choices they have within the story way less frequent? Like no more choosing between buying 10 potions or buying a magic sword for the fighter, there is only a potion shop now.
💀
I feel for you, bro, though in my case me and my friends and I were on our first campaign, so me saying "OK here is a problem, do whatever you want to fix it" sometimes depending on the thing that they had to do, they did feel overwhelmed with choice, which is why they would consistently ask me what I think they should do.
@@GreviousGKoopaFor that case I'd say it is ok to limit the options on how to fix the thing, maybe detailing the thing helps to narrow the choices available.
It may also be they are just confused with the lack of specificity. It is difficult at first to determine how much your players understand (or pay attention to) the situation, so ask them if they get it.
The most fascinating linear story for me was definitely Brennan's calamity. I want to play DnD like THAT. But I don't even have a normal group so...
That's a great form of storytelling when you know how it ends, but the fun part is learning how everything led to that outcome. It's like how you know Titanic is going to sink by the end of the movie, but what you're here for is to see how it all happens. Similarly with EXU: Calamity, you know the Betrayer Gods are getting released, the question is how. Also that first hour of the final episode which represented literally only a second of in-universe time was *chef's kiss* 😘👌
Normal group? I can't find more than one person that's excited about playing
Thousand times YES!
Calamity is an absolute masterpiece.
You have to tailor it towards the group you have. Sometimes especially if it's newer players to many choices confuse them in my experience. Once they get there wings give them choices let them fly!
The core agreement between Player and DM is basically "We will create a story together."
Railroading is the DM going back on the deal while screaming "MY STORY MINE!!!" while Linear storytelling is the DM going "Ok for this story to unfold, this is the first plot point that the story must pass through. What's you're approach?"
The directing is the DM's while the acting is the players. It is movie making.
your* 🤓🤓
Exactly. As the DM, it’s your responsibility to make sure there’s a story to interact with. Most of the time, the story in the game will mostly line up with what you planned. But the players are supposed to interact with it in their own way, finding their own solutions to the problems you designed. The mark of a good DM is designing a story open enough that your players can do something completely unexpected, that you didn’t at all intend, but you roll with it and still find a way to make it work with the intended plot. THAT is perfect D&D storytelling IMO.
@@justadude5868 So all DM's have to be both highly intelligent and very wise. Most will not meet those standards. Modules don't meet them either.
Right, we often talk about the responsibilities of the DM in this respect, but not that as players you should also be making some effort to engage with plot hooks too.
Its kind of a dick move to deliberately walk away from something your DM has prepared.
This was like therapy for me and my wife, who's currently DMing for us lol. She's always worried about "railroading" us, and it's completely unfounded. She's such a great storyteller, and we all love following her plothooks. This was exactly what we needed to watch!!!! 🙂 Thank you!!
As a first time DM, I learned this the hard way. I was planning my first campaign (two years ago) and grew obsessed with avoiding railroading at all costs. What happened was that I created a sandbox type campaign and it couldn't be shittier both for me and my group. In time, I evolved it to be a multi-branch linear campaign and things started flowing so much better.
I love a good train themed campaign
"We can't be friends because I'm not friends with people who are wrong." I'm using this from here on.
I've never seen such a polite and powerful sentence in my life.
I don't know if it was on propose, but I love that the railroading example's DM is so stupid that he goes out of its way inventing insane excuses to impede the players when they weren't even necessary because all of the villagers are already unable to escape because of the forcefield. Talk about tunnel visioning
That's what happens when you make shit up on the spot to counter and roadblock your players instead of simply plotting out an internally consistent world and having it react accordingly to whatever the players try to do.
As a new DM I knew this way of Dming was the one that I liked (and now my players are enjoying) but always read about how bad "railroading" was. I'm so happy to saw one of my favorites youtubers validate my DM style (not that it was neccesary but is really neat).
The thing you want to be careful about is "attempting to give illusions of choice". Starting at the back of a train and battling your way through challenges until you get to the front of the train is fine. Being told you can leave whenever you want, only to realize you're not allowed to and that you're on a moving train, that's what makes you feel railroaded.
Something that Brennan Lee Mulligan talked about in the Game Masters of Exandria video, is that in a game with plot objectives you need to have rails, but it sucks for those rails to come from the GM, so what he talked about was doing in depth character creations because what your players give you is what the rails become, therefore granting this full degree of player agency while still having those rails in place. In that same video, Abria talked about how there were moments where Brennan guided her along a certain scene, but it didn't feel like a railroad, rather he gave her prompts to do what her character would do, so when he says something she didn't go "Oh, I guess this is where the plot is going" she went "Yeah, you're right, I don't hear that prophecy, FUCK THIS TREE!"
This is a good use of the "dynamic dungeon" approach I use. I helped a player create her character, and from the conversation we had while choosing spells, I had a good idea how they'd react to some things. So I put a few of those "hooks" into the dungeon. One of my favorites was a putrid fountain with treasure at the bottom, because I knew that player would enjoy using her magic to purify the water. Another was a cave behind a waterfall for a player who, out-of-game, had mentioned that "all games have at least one cave behind the waterfall". So I put a bunch of razorvine behind a waterfall because I knew he'd go there.
Yeah, I remember Brennan Lee Mulligan talking about this in his round table with Matt and Aabria. He likened it to irrigating a field, when the water wants to go in a straight line while the farmers want an appealing vista. The ‘story’ or ‘plot’ wants the path of least resistance, whereas the players want complex paths that the story would have to fight in its current form, meaning you as the architect must design a path to please both.
“You made the shape of a story, while trying to make it anything but.
Brennan put it so succinctly in that portion of the roundtable! I often find that some advice can be given and then doesn't work in specific ways that people expect. This brings to mind the "if you want something to have stakes, put a timer on it!". I've seen DMs do this and then be surprised/complain that their players only want to go save X NPC or get to Location Y in the allotted time instead of follow all these new, interesting plot hooks the DM is laying down. Like of course the players will go do the urgent thing; you said it was urgent!
I’m happy that you brought up how stories can be linear, non linear, and sandbox at different times. It’s a tactic that I use a lot. In one campaign, the party started off on a pretty linear path, and once they got to the shadow king, he told them to go get stronger and come back for their next job once they have more skill and magic items. So now the players have to go around and find out where magic items are and the campaign turned into non-linear as they scoured the land for any ancient tombs or desecrated temples. I had stuff pre prepared, but they could get the items in any order they chose. In the next campaign I am running, the party is going to be plopped into a new strange world after a very brief (like 2 encounters) linear section. They will go on sandboxing for a level or two, and then will be noticed by the local factions, at which point it will turn into linear or non-linear (idk I don’t plan that far in advance) as they are introduced to the politics of the world and hints of the BBEG acting in the background (they will originally not appear important, as the factions they interact with do not know of the BBEG’s significance yet and are too busy politicking to notice a cult worshiping a dead witch king grow within their lands)
This actually puts a few things into perspective. I like choices and consequences and I have been led to believe that sandboxes are my type of game. There was just one tiny problem with the genre; I rarely ever finished them, and the reasons are becoming more obvious. 1) I need goals to keep me interested. 2) I'm prone to choice paralysis. There have been times where my inability to decide what I wanted killed my interest in the game.
It's the reason why I can never play Minecraft (or any other sandbox) for too long. Some people can make their goals and enjoy games that way, whereas I prefer having a narrative to follow. I don't know if I have some kind of ADHD, but I am more likely to enjoy and finish a linear game than non-linear one. And now I know why. I thought sandbox was the solution... but I was wrong. Linear with choices is the soft spot for me.
Hat; don't burnout from all the content.
Take your time. We'll be here to enjoy it and support you!
Seriously who are you man. The amount of good will, free stuff and love you put out into the community is next level. Thanks so much for all your work. :-)
He is "Antonio Demico, and this is _Tip of the Hat"_
;P
As someone who has recently started branching out into different systems (GOD I love you Blades in the Dark), D&D really *does* require a lot more railroading compared to certain other rules-light systems, mostly because of DM preparation.
When I'm DMing D&D, I need to have a *lot* of stuff prepared. I usually need battlemaps, if I want the party to fight certain enemies I'm gonna need a stat block for that enemy, I need to have a general idea of what they can *do* in this town, because all the scene-setting work in D&D is on you, the DM. If my players just decide "nah, we don't wanna help the goblins of the ancient forest this session, we're gonna head to that town south of the forest" and I didn't think to have at least *something* for that, I'm SoL and I need to either prep interesting things *real* quick or prepare for a very flat and uninteresting session.
With Blades, I do not need to do this. Blades is *meant* to be more sandboxy, which means that everything is set up so that I basically have to do no prep. There are no stat blocks (player rolls solve both the enemy and their actions, and they change depending on a bunch of factors), there is no over-arching plot you need to stick to, there's just a system of factions and a way for the players to find jobs to do *in the system*. You really don't need to plan these jobs at all, because Blades forgoes planning *even in game* and has characters retroactively plan their job through flashbacks when necessary.
When comparing Blades and D&D, it becomes *abundantly* clear just how much of D&D's session-to-session play is reliant on the GM at least 'trailroading' the players, showing them the path to follow and hoping to god they aren't just gonna be contrarian jerks and do something else. Blades, as a system, uses none of this, and requires the players to find their own fun in the world - that's not objectively *better*, mind you, but it's an example of how there *are* systems for non-linear, sandbox storytelling, and D&D just isn't it.
I'm glad you pointed out the choice paralysis aspect. I as a DM can easily get too excited coming up with stuff like that and I regularly get disappointed once it's actually in front of the players because by overloading them with choices and information I didn't actually communicate clearly what the consequences of those choices are, or the players spend way to long deciding amongst themselves what to do because they feel like I've given them a test with a multiple choice question and only one correct choice.
I 100% feel like a DND campaign feels empty without a main plot!
yup, i too feel that way. if i were randomly thrown into a sandbox campaign, id ask to leave 1 or 2 sessions in.
Depends on the style. I genuinely hate ironed-out stories, and I'm a forever DM. My games start with plot hooks, and write down what could become the plot of that hooks, but all can change depending on the vibe and on how the player want to interact with the world around them (it never works when, for example, I want to make a gunslinguing and high-risk high-reward story but the players want to play a safe and well planned story). If it works on your table, fine, but it's not better, it's just another approach
As a DM, I struggle to avoid the main plot thing because I love story. 🤷🏻♂️ I've always wanted to do a monster hunting campaign though ever since I played the Witcher 3. It's always been a big inspiration. Current campaign is inspired by a game of thrones/a song of ice and fire. It's heavily story driven and a high risk game. Combat isn't super common, but when it happens, it's dangerous, but I haven't killed anyone yet. Didn't mean to ramble, it just excites me. 😅🤣
I find that the emergent narrative that springs up from player interest and ingenuity is 100x better and more satisfying than the story the DM comes up with. Mostly because 1. Most DMs aren't professional writers or narrativists and therefore rely a ton on previous media and tropes which get ACHINGLY stale and predictable over time and 2. The combined imagination of the players molding a story out of a setting that isn't set to fit them creates solutions to problems that are excitingly unique and forces players to make use of their combined resources more often.
I think I'd have a better time dming if all of my regular players were actively paying attention and engaging in the story with a sandbox like that. I'm running a less regular game with much more traditional players that is more of a sandbox, and I'm having a great time considering they're more involved in every moment. I think any game just depends on full participation and undivided attention on both parts to have fun, no matter the type of game.
I've been using a lot of Linear Storytelling in my games recently. I've essentially broken it up into small, seemingly unconnected stories that are slowly building into something greater. These stories are short/small enough that they only take 2-3 sessions at most, but are also simple enough that player's still have agency on how to progress.
So far it's working out pretty well. I just gotta get past the BBG that is "Scheduling Issues".
I played all of the Dragon Age games + the DLCs for the first time this year and blew my mind how much agency the player has. Even decisions from past games effect the newer ones.
All the Dragon Age games are pretty good!
Final Fantasy VI and VII were beautiful examples of linear stories with lots of player choices throughout, including eventually sandbox world explorations.
ive played FF VI last year, that is a good example of D&D, and the game doesnt even have a main character, you could argue for three of them, and it be a totally valid argument
I feel like this was a long way to say something like "if you want to play Curse of Strahd, you HAVE to go to Barovia," I heard that on Crispy's Tavern and he is a DM that prefers running linear games with tough combat so he often has alot to say when reading dnd horror stories that involve DMs getting accused of railroading when all they were doing was running a linear game. Still cool to hear a breakdown of these three narrative structures
The thing is though Curse of Strahd is non-linear at least from my experience, but it probably wouldn't be hard to make it linear. So no, I wouldn't say its just saying that.
What Crispy was talking about there was creating characters that can work in a party or central conceit of the campaign, which is also important.
I think the problem is that players forget that the DM needs to set the scene or else there is no game - I run sandbox games but to bring the party together you do need little bits of planned events at the start of a campaign to ensure your PCs meet one another and have a reason to adventure - the start of Curse of Strahd is a perfect example. Good players will lean into these moments - bad ones will just try to say no to everything because it's 'railroading' to expect them to actually engage with the game.
@shadenox8164 CoS is so non-linear the community had to MAKE UP a main quest just so the DMs didn't have to do it themselves. It's a wonderful setting book with plenty of sidequests but unless you have really precocious players it's impossible to get a fulfilling story if you run it as written
@@nehemiahsomers4141 we're playing COS at the moment and it's been a blast because we're a experienced group and know how to work with the DM and each other to get the most out of it. I can't imagine anyone running the game without some liner story to get the PCs to Ravenloft, and there's some great liner versions like Strahd Must Die Tonight and Curse of Strahd IN SPACE (my personal favourite!). What makes COS so fun is that the non-liner storytelling is baked into the DM instructions so it's never going to play out the same way twice... part of making it fun also relies upon players accepting that the settings will have some limitations on player freedom - eg you can't just planeshift your way out of Ravenloft or expect your wizard to have a good time in a Dark Sun campaign.
@@ether4211 whenever I play sandbox, the first session is usually linear, a little railroad-y even, just to bring people up to speed, set up a tone and so on. I mean, think of Skyrim. It literally starts with you on a cart about to be executed. You can't choose not to go and see the dragon attack the village. But after that, you're a free man, doing as he pleases. Nobody in their right mind would argue that Skyrim isn't a sandbox
Honestly this is one of the best videos that explains the difference between linear storytelling and railroading. Thanks once again for a stellar vid!
I think railroading works better when you don't ask your players open ended "What do you want to do?" and ask more guiding questions like "You stand outside the necromancer tower, how did you prepare for this?". Talking while even scheduling a game "I'm excited about this dungeon crawl I made".
I've found myself with anxiety players, so providing them a syllabus with what we're doing and what I need from them helps a lot to get them confident in the game. And even without anxiety players, I'll ask at the end of the previous session "What mission would you like next?" or "what landmark on the hexmap would you like to head towards next session" and then have a week to craft a heist or pre roll some random travel tables or maybe even grab a couple props from the dollar store to hand out.
The main thing being to communicate with the players where their choices lay, which can be less about where they go and more about how they approach.
I have high anxiety. This idea is great, and I wish my DM did this in a campaign I was in. 👍
I am constantly impressed by all of the media examples you use in these videos to support your points. It’s so fun to see the clips and art that help get the message across.
The first thing that came to mind with video games that mix linear and non-linear are the type with a main quest line and lots of side quests. Playing Assassin’s Creed where I can either progress the plot or go around beating up the towns and cities really made me enjoy the game.
Never played D&D but here iam devouring all these videos.
Yeah... 😅 Consumed like 10 000 hours of D&D games, storytelling world-building... content and still haven't played a game yet. But worry not I know it's coming soon... Someday... Somewhen... 😅
How to get people to click your video without clickbait 101
I have discovered you a few days ago and I'm already running out of your content. You and that familiar of yours are amazing. Keep up an amazing work! Your arts and illustrations are wonderful. Especially, the hat (you). All these expressions are so cute, and all the puns and jokes are just as good as everything else. I hope one day I'll see 500k and then a 1m (and beyond) subscribers here!
Seeing as the entire point of playing D&D is to have fun, I think maintaining a certain minimum degree of linearity in every campaign is essential, because being the main characters in the sequential plot of an awesome story is fun. Wandering around aimlessly and doing random crap can also be fun sometimes, but that isn't exactly how most stories go, and for good reason. The key point is to let the players decide how they want to respond to any given event. As long as they always have at least a couple options and the freedom to propose new ones (even if they're really stupid), then it's fine.
For me, an ideal campaign (linear or otherwise) would have large amounts of character agency. (Which I will distinguish from player agency)
Characters have hopes and ambitions, and ultimately leave their mark in the plot. (Run the same module with a different group of characters, at it should give a different vibe.
For a sandbox, the characters goals simply become the plot. The DM just needs to plan appropriate obstacles.
I completely disagree that linearity is needed at all. What *is* needed, I think, is creating credible threats, antiparties, villains, etc, that whether the players get involved or not, will continue their march towards their goals. It doesn't matter if the players sit on their asses and cant think of anything to do, because the world will march on with or without them.
You're not telling a story though, It's a roleplaying game not a novel.
why do you equate not being railroaded with wandering around doing aimless crap?
I'm a first time Game Master for my group and I've found myself waiting up for your videos because they are simply amazing and the information is PRICELESS. I was in the middle of tormenting myself with my last minute game prep when this video released and they're all so good!!!
Seriously, I started a pathfinder game recently, haven’t dm’d in a few years. Not ashamed to say these have livened up my story engagement.
In my experience, it is much more difficult to prepare for complete sandbox games and even in nonlinear stories it is harder to prepare dramatic events and foreshadowing the things properly. It is difficult as character arcs are often interrupted or interchanged with other plots. Players sometimes forget the cool things and naturally after 24 weeks break, some of the passion is lost in time and will need to be refreshed. That is how feelings work. Linear stories with choices aplenty is best for almost all tables in my experience. But I love monster of the week stuff too for a change of pace but my favorite is deep and dramatic long campaigns. I am a sucker for that and they are simply usually mostly linear. There might be sandboxy parts but the main narrative and story is linear.
Show me in the 1e DMG where it talks about foreshadowing.
As a first time DM I told my players I was running a guided story (Candlekeep Mysteries) and if they wanted to play they would have to go along with the adventure prompts. To me, this means if the plot requires them to help a King, they will accept the quest and in doing so start the adventure. How they go about the quest and the outcome of the quest will depend on their creativity and actions.
Running an entirely open sandbox world where you can do very little planning and have to react and improvise to every players whims sounds like an exhausting nightmare! How do you get to be creative? How do you introduce engaging NPC’s and challenge your players growth and development?
Great work as always Pointy Hat! Thanks for giving us this tip! 🙏🏻
Linear games are pre-prep, Sandbox games are post-prep. It requires more improvisation, but as long as you write down whatever an NPC say and do and canonize it after it happens, it's pretty much the same.
I love linear story RPGs as the choices they offer are more meaningful within the context of the story and player character. There feels like a direction and purppse to them.
100% this. They are so much easier to guide, cater, and push things along. The characters having their joined stories and objectives along a major path and toward the next event is so powerful. Look at stories like Avatar, One Piece, Pokemon Legends Arceus, and Xenoblade. They are all linear with sequential wide open sections that make them freeing.
Keeping in enough linearity also helps the feeling of the GM as a *director* and moderator, helping provide the best aspects and moments catered to the players and characters.
So yeah I’m a big fan of this hybrid model of sequential narrative openness. They come in knowing where they are and where they’re going and what they generally want to do, with the story, choice, and action being based on *how* all of that happens.
I find this stuff really interesting. Personally I run mostly nonlinear/sandbox styles, but I absolutely recognize the value of linear games and do enjoy them. I also think it's a lot easier to prep for, as sandbox games can end up feeling like a loosely connected series of random encounters. And while that works wonders in some places, like in exploration or survival-style games, if you're trying to run an epic story-heavy campaign, it simply will never serve your needs
I love your content! Thanks for putting so much effort in to keeping the hobby space positive and wonderful!
This is exactly what I needed to hear! Thanks. I just found my new favorite channel. Keep it up!
Story from the first campaign I ran. I made a mystery plot but after listening to people saying how railroading was bad I didn't put anything to send them towards the foreshadowing for the ending and they ended up skipping all of it because I didn't try hard enough to expose them to it. The ending twist completely fell flat and none of the players cared (It was also a problem of not learning what kind of campaign the table wanted and since I have made sessions more towards their interest with a small amount of railroaded foreshadowing for the twists and intrigue I like in storytelling to create a game everyone on the table enjoys)
One on traps and puzzles would be nice.
Master the Dungeon has amazing videos on traps and puzzles, it is kind of their main focus. Small channel too. Sometime in the mean time between Pointy Hat videos.
I'm currently running my first homebrew campaign and let me tell you, linear storytelling has done wondors for me. It makes things very easy to track for both me and my players (who are also new) and let's me guide them towards significant choices I have planned in the story we are telling. Making them feel like they're contributing to and making a difference in the story while also allowing me to prepare for whatever they choose to do ahead of time. All in all it's still really enjoyable for everyone and makes DMing alot less of a headache than I was anticipating :)
Thank you for this!
I (A new DM) recently ran a game where I was worried I was railroading my players, when in actuality it was just linear.
Going from the back of a train, battling through challenges to the front of the train is completely fine. Demon Slayer literally made an arc like that. What you want to be careful with is giving illusions of choice that you cannot keep, because being told you can get off at any point and then discovering you cannot is what makes you feel railroaded. Otherwise you're just having an adventure.
Most Refreshing D&D RUclipsr I've found. Love your stuff!
As I’m doing more one-shots recently, linear storytelling is my go to. I will often do a non-linear in the vein of “you got X places to go (and yeah, they will have more concise plots when you get there), but which do you want first?” Very much in the vein of the first Mass Effect and Dragon Age games. But why am I not in the trenches with you? Idk. I guess I’m not at the front. Just one of the fellas at home while you save the day!
Probably my favorite video of yours so far! Very well done, I love having the proper terminology at my disposal to use in discourse!
The true free gift at the end was the gift of perspective and understanding
So long as the players & DM can have fun it doesn't matter what storytelling method you use , and you can even mix and match .
I TOOK THE FIRST STEPS TO GET INTO DND! I got the players hand book and going over it and will eventually make my character. I'm def going to review some of your character videos to give me an idea. I've been wanting to get into DND forever and you definitely sparked a lot more interest thanks to your amazing and funny vids. Congrats on your channel's speedy progress, I was here before 1mil, and will be here long after.
Enjoy !!
Honestly, I'm always happy to see my players having creative ideas and outsmart the situation in which I placed them
Man, I really enjoy your videos! You seems like a really nice person
Hearing pointyhat talk about games like dragon age and their linear (with choice) storytelling along with his general fondness of dnd makes me wonder what he feels about Owlcat's Pathfinder game. I'd also like to add that I highly recommend them to anyone who hasn't played them; especially because they're on sale.
I run entire sandbox games. I let the players write the story and react to their decisions.
6:00 No way you just referenced Sid Meier's Pirates haha! As if I couldn't love this channel more!!
Love your take on this. I would enjoy more videos like this from you as well as all you usual content!
When I studied games design at university everyone would always argue that a linear narrative stripped players of their agency and I could never succinctly respond to them about how WRONG they were, but now I'll just send people this video! I love a good linear narrative, I love leaving breadcrumbs for people to follow in stories, and I also love people to feel like they have a choice and make an impact on the story. I ESPECIALLY love when all these things happen at the SAME TIME 👍
Weirdly enough, one of my gripes with Inquisition is that I wish the areas quest arcs had a proper end point so that I knew when I finished an area.
NGL I think I needed to see this video. I’ve been putting together my next campaign with some new players and I’ve been trying to find the best storytelling method and talking myself out of doing linear storytelling because it feels “Railroady” meanwhile all of my other games have struggled from a lack of direction and purpose. So thanks, I was leaning this way and now you’ve affirmed the truth. Here’s to great campaigns!
You're a great RUclipsr not because of the free stuff (which is amazing), but because of your heart. Thanks for another fun video and helping me feel more confident about my linear stories!
Sometimes yes definitely but in many campaigns, especially with a large place should have many quest starts and stuff
Ah, yes the "Linear = bad" phase video games went through.
Right up there with "Boss Fights = bad" and "Japanese =bad".
Good times.
People must hate Dark Souls then
I just want linear games back. I’m genuinely getting tired of everything becoming open world
wait, video games went through a "boss fights=bad" phase? can you give an example? (i'm not trying to start a fight/debate, sorry if i gave that vibe, I just want more context)
There was a "boss fight bad" phase? Also I heard more people complaining about how bad western games in comparison to Japanese ones (mostly from people who are way too horny for anime girls).
@@kchgamer1788 same. I'm sick of those.
I’m glad to see you championing linear storytelling as a good option - and differentiating it from railroading.
I've been with bro since like 800 subs, great job brosky
I think one of the important things to remember is that even when you use linear storytelling, you don't have to make it feel linear to the players. For example, they may have three different NPCs they can reach out to for help. All three NPCs might suggest the same solution. You might THINK the noble, the thief and the clergy would have all given you different paths to tackle the problem, but it doesn't mean they would have. This is linear, but the players still have choice in how they approach the problem. It might even change some of the details of what happens or why, but it could lead to the same situation, the same puzzle, the same combat, etc. The one really big thing to avoid is making the players feel like they don't have any choice. In highly-linear story situations, it's important to both discuss the linearity of the campaign with the players, but also to ensure that their characters are sufficiently motivated so that the linear path would definitely be the one they take. A discharged knight of the kingdom who seeks to earn back her rank will take up arms to defend the cities and villages, especially if those in office can't. The sorcerer whose brother was killed by the BBEG will stop at nothing to get revenge. The Life cleric must purge the undead menace because the BBEG is a necromancer. They stole something from the Rogue and now the rogue has to defeat them and get it back or they can never return to their order. If a player's character does not have a baked-in reason to be motivated to tackle the campaign and follow the adventurer's path, then it's the player's responsibility to figure out why they're motivated, even if it's just that they're really chill with whatever and like these random goobers they met.
Sabía que eras español, pero para nada me esperaba que vivieses en Tenerife, saludos desde Lanzarote. Disfruto mucho de tus vídeos, sigue así. Sobretodo por tu increíble nivel de inglés, tengo curiosidad ya que voy a estudiar filología inglesa, tú también lo has estudiado o simplemente has vivido anteriormente en un entorno en el que se hable mucho inglés?
No he estudiado filología ni he vivido en un país de habla inglesa!
@@pointyhatstudiosnooo el sombrero habla español, no me la creo
@@pointyhatstudios bua, pues tienes un nivel de inglés increíble
Your city looks adorable! Really, such a good vibe in there.
About linear/nonlinear narratives... I do think that your example of mixed parts is great!
Thanks for your videos.
The im alone at trenches got me so hard. Me encantan tus videos! Muchas gracias por tu trabajo!
I've always just used railroading more like that older meaning, I didn't even know the meaning had changed I thought people were just using it wrong.
As a DM who very much prefers linear storytelling, this is really uplifting. SO MUCH bad feels from all the people attacking that style of play, this is great. Thanks
Thanks as always for a great video, Sir Hat!
Love this ❤ keep up the amazing work!
Would love more content like this. Your D&D-focused stuff is good, but as someone who GMs other systems, having general insights on building narratives is really neat.
I like balancing linear and non-linear by having time baked into the campaign that functions as down time of sorts. So Linear event 1 and 2 happens, then there's time for side quests a, b, and c, or screwing around for a little, waiting for Linear Event 3 to happen. Generally I have side quests feed back towards the overarching linear story in some way. Taking a campaign I'm currently running at the moment as an example:
The party was brought in to explore an unknown world, meet locals, and try to discover as much as possible about the history of the world. First Linear Event, securing a small base of operations on a somewhat large centralized island and the area around it. During that, the party ran into some locals that had an important relic stolen from them. Recovery of that relic was the Second Linear Event. After recovering the Relic, the locals offered to provide safe transport to any of the three continents. This is the first place the party had a big choice, of where to go. I gave the players all of the info they'd need to decide early, so they already knew where they wanted to go when it came time to pick.
After getting to where they wanted to go, there was a short introduction to the local climate and the party was prompted to register with the local Guild to accept any work. From there, the party was given three optional quests to pick from. All three gave "rewards" pertaining to the overarching story, and after completing two of them the party found themselves in the middle of the Third Linear Event. From there, a somewhat longer chain of events are happening that will eventually lead to some downtime during a local festival. During this, there will be another set of side quests made available all of which will feed into the overarching story in some way.
I made sure that the side quests help advance the main plot too. One side quest was clearing out a mine, one was helping secure a traveler's outpost, one was helping a local merchant protect an important shipment. The mine was going to have a key for a plot important location, securing the traveler's outpost was going to put the party in contact with someone who could help trace down plot important relics, and the merchant historian was going to provide easy access to local languages as well as a trove of historical texts on this region.
This also can mean that, in campaigns where a player intentionally wants to take some down time to save money on getting supplies (like making your own scrolls, wands, potions, etc) you can easily allow them to do it and sprinkle in some little adventures around town that wouldn't interfere with their main focus. Or if they want to explore in some random direction instead, they're free to do so! I just be sure to write the next Linear Event in a way where it can happen in a different town if needed, and the plot important location (like a specific cave) can instead be near that other town instead.
Unrelated to my previous comment; I'm mostly a GM (by choice at this point), and I love more off the head style gming. Improving situations for me is always really fun so I'm more sandboxy by nature. But I do like having little quests in there to be side beats or even something to take over a campaign. Making rivals and factions that just kinda do their own thing is my jam and when it leads into a story? That's the best
Another great video! Pointy Hat always has insightful, clever, and creative things to say about the topics he chooses. This is now my favorite DND channel!
one of my favorite videos you’ve done 💕
I love your videos! The main storyline is more linear but what they do, between the events is more of Sandbox
I love your content, I'm just starting to DM for a couple of friends and your videos have been a huge help to me 💕
First thing: love the videos. My kids and I watch them and love the content. As a new DM (for my family) I appreciate the recognition of linear story telling. I will always let them play with the storyline however they want but I want them to know there are objectives they can focus on and it helps them roleplay their characters. So like, thanks 😄
I really appreciate this video, thank you! I now have a solution for some of my players choice paralysis. I was worried about 'railroading', but giving a linear story(instead of nonlinear) before I try handing them a world sounds like a great solution.
First video of yours I've seen and you've already helped me a ton. Thank you!!
Thanks for the awesome content and great video!!
Me and the other DMs in our group (I know, our group has 3 DMs, we are blessed), we have a routine whereby in between archs/quests we will have a role play heavy session or two where the party recovers from the last quest line and figure out information for what to do next. During these sessions we are given two or three choices and we choose which direction we want to go, therefore starting a new linear quest.
I love this model. It provides change, choice, and player agency, while then giving the DM direction for the future sessions.
The quality of each video is super impressive like ❓❓❓give this man the recognition he deserves
My best campaign experiences as a DM, homebrew or official module, has been through linear storytelling. Specifically, I go by a consequence system, with "consequence" being morally neutral. There's the overall storyline happening around the players, and there are hooks dangled in front of them to participate in them, but my players have the agency to do anything they want (which is 90% of our content). If they don't take the hooks, stuff happens even without them there, affecting what they encounter later. Everyone loves it, and it feels like true RP.
Wonderful video, keep it up!
Loved the video, mate! Always brightens my day seeing you on my home page.
I enjoyed this video. My best friend is running a couple of games at the minute. One was a straightforward dungeon crawl, fairly linear the other was sandbox. Frostmaiden I think. The frostmaiden group really struggled because they didn’t know what to do, argued about what they should do and got frustrated with the DM’s and each other. And they’d asked to play sandbox style. My friend vents at me on discord all time. His latest one is how they keep missing obvious clues.
Had a moment that reminded me of the "way of the samurai" games and I wanted to give a quick note to those. The way you have to hit timing on story points with multiple stories going on all over the place is wild
I love that you're so self aware about the videos, honestly the best thing about this channel - and all the amazing work put into your homebrew that is FREE for heaven's sake - and gosh darn it one of the big things I love about TTRPGs is narrative; the story the DM is telling, sure, that can be primarily player driven, or completely sandbox but over all the narrative relies on the Dm's shaping of the world - I'm often confused by the idea that DMs should stop making linear stories or attempt to make player choice the absolute decider, because frankly, there are many players who want to star in their own fantasy story, and that needs a DM with a level of control over the story's direction, player choice can effect the people they meet, the battles they fight, and the ordeals they have to overcome, but at the end of the day a story cannot simply manifest from unrelated decisions
What is bad is when a DM allows the characters to make any decision they want and uses an open world to hide the fact the sandbox is fluff and the actual story is railroaded
Great stuff. :-) It all comes down to story telling - different ways to get to an ending. Keep up the awesome work.
congrats on coming out!
I actually made a homebrew world with all those options in mind. Linear storytelling from people choosing to be an officer in the navy (world of islands like that of one piece) and the reason its linear is because you are an officer on a boat, and that boat will be sent to specific islands to progress the plot forward, the main differences being if a character dies or who gets the magical powerup in a limited magic world. But there is also the sandbox storytelling which is them choosing to become pirates, go to different islands to max allies or enemies till they bite off more than they can chew.
And those weren't the only two options as they could've become bounty hunters, which gives some non-linear storytelling options, choosing which target to go after and ending up near certain events at certain times or become mercenaries and protect merchant ships which is another form of linear storytelling but they can jump off the tracks when they wish.
Any story is linear once it is told, and Tabletop RPG is about telling a story together.
Our GM had to improvise a lot with the story since we kept doing stuff he didn't plan for, including accidentally becoming allies of the villain at the start of the adventure and it was great. It worked, the story was cool and sometimes he had to end a session early because he had to rethink how to continue because we threw a wrench in the gears.
POINTY HAT :D this is my first time getting to see one of your videos come out brand-new! I subscribed about a week or two ago, and I've watched your entire channel maybe twice by now XD
God thank you for this. Words mean things! Also just generally love seeing a new vid from you
The DM has the authority to make the next session a heist.
The players have the agency to decide if the theme music for the heist is Mission Impossible, or Benny Hill.
another amazing video !
I love a mix of all of them !
Your videos are such a slay, i love them so much
As always, great content my dude! I definitely also hate railroading and similar "DM Power Abuse" scenarios where "oh I know I split the party, but now you suddenly need each other, so POOF! the cleric's good just teleported you back together" or whatever... it just doesn't feel right... Keep up the good work though!
"Different strokes for different folks" is a powerful answer. It can apply to other things, too.