Co-ops, Socialism & Capitalism - Destiny Debates
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- Опубликовано: 19 сен 2019
- "This is fucked on so many levels..."
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Date streamed: 09/13/2019
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Destiny got a 2 bedroom Manhattan apartment for 1K a month in this debate
The hell was the point of that anecdote? That co op sounds like shit
@@lawrencespoo3965 data is the plural of anecdote OMEGALUL
just go for Richard Wolff already. This is a waste of time.
@a a no
Destiny is afraid to debate from Richard Wolff. Go harass destiny until he invited him to the show.
@a a smh
@a a no, this idiot is just a troll
@a a no, its just a bad meme.
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/czsf2f/what_does_this_richard_wolff_lost_to_fucking/
"I'm done debating lefties" -about five videos ago.
@Tim Portantno fuck off you Moronic twat
@@Andrearuch97 Nice argument!
PepeLaugh
Hahaha, he keeps saying that
Sure the guy talked a lot... but Destiny didn't even attempt to engage any of the issues he brought up, what was he supposed to do?
Seriously. "Debate" shouldn't even be in this title. Can't blame the guy for talking to a spaced out bot for an hour.
He should have just ended the call with Destiny - I thought this was pretty rude actually. Why invite him on?
Destiny gave a guy a soapbox for 53 minutes in this debate
This wasn’t a debate lol, literally just this guy rambling and destiny occasionally saying “ok” or asking a 3 second question for clarification
lol the last 20 minutes were just him explaining why he can’t get laid
Well you see it is because we dont murder men, because women have monogomous relationships, and because now men have to ask for consent first.
In his world, all of this would be reversed. Also Destiny didnt push back what-so-ever on that.
@@justifiably_stupid4998 why bother? Dude was doing a good enough job hanging himself (in a video game)
@@PiPArtemis Guy - "so Im saying that pineapple on pizza is the default, natural thing to eat."
Destiny - "ok."
NO PUSHBACK WHAT-SO-EVER!?!
@@justifiably_stupid4998 i wouldnt go as far as saying "default, natural whatever" but as a frequent enjoyer of pineapple on pizza I really dont understand why this is such a persistent meme
Destiny is gonna have to debate vaush eventually
Isn't Vaush a Destiny clone? I watched one of his videos and he's literally Destiny #2
Vaush perma banned on twitch so I doubt it
tajayfoot1 they’ve debated before look up “destiny irishladdie”
@@smiff513 yup, not gonna happen
What makes me sad about this whole thing with Vaush drama and even more with his Twitch ban, is that they were sorta good friends? In some of their old conversations in RUclips they have really nice calm and fun discussions. But not anymore.
Stuff like this shouldn't be put on RUclips. It won't encourage anyone to continue watching Destiny.
Steven's job in conversations like this is to engage with his guest. When he's this un-engaged it just makes for crappy content. I feel bad for the the guy Steven is talking to here. He called in in good faith, he's obviously intelligent, and he was met with the conversational equivalent of a bobble-headed-scruffy-bummed wet fart.
I'm not asking for constant hyperactive gish-galloping like we got with a lot of the alt-right debates, but if Steven can't even pretend to be interested then this stuff should be buried in the hellish-depths of Twitch's archives.
This was so fucking boring, and it was all Stevens fault.
Pick up your game, Mr Bonnell, or brace yourself for going back to carpet cleaning to make a buck. I love you, man, but if this is the career you want to continue in then fucking do your job.
Great comment, you're right 🤙🏾
Very well said Wrampant!
cringe
@Wrampant you're sassy as fuck.
What you don't enjoy conversation with random normies with over 1k Twitter followers who most likely have never debated before?
Destiny sounded so disinterested. Why didn't you just cut him loose, if he was not bored.
Destiny listened to a dude switching topics and talking about nothing in this debate.
Claudio Venturelli #socialism
@@NeoIsrafil didn't disagree with the libertarian socialist? lmao
If you guys are bored, just skip to around 37:00 the memes start coming FULL FORCE.
Graeme Crawford whoa, you weren't kidding
Up to 30 - Huh, has some points.
30-45 - This is getting a bit weird.
Post 45 - Umm...
I should have just clicked this and ignored the preceding content. What a yawn fest it was until then.
There was literally no debate in this at all lol. He just talked at destiny for an hour lol
How to encourage people to start coops? Tax breaks for the coops, increase taxes for non cooperatives.
@@NeoIsrafil The Corbyn/McDonnell plan basically.
Co-ops are being actively quashed in most communities by big corporate interests just like all small businesses and farms. After all if you had a choice in the market these monopolies wouldn't be able to compete. You don't need tax breaks for small businesses you need to take subsidies and tax breaks from big businesses and apply the same rules to corporations as there are against private companies. I can't find it but there was a PBS documentary about a small chicken farm being crushed through litigation but tyson and a couple other big chicken factory farms in the united states, that's pretty much how all the small brewers went as well either they got litigated to death by the corrupt courts or they sold out to the big monopolies because they were being litigated and could not function. For a corporation when they are under litigation they can still do business and make money, that's not the case with private companies. So while the corporations have you tied up in litigation the small companies are hemorrhaging money for as long as the litigation continues, which can continue in perpetuity, while corporations can continue to rake in massive profits while under litigation. But of course people need to realize that the corporations are just tools of the authorities in office doing exactly what they're directed to do.
+
Malthusianism WeirdChamp.
Edit: I just finished watching this, what was the point of uploading this? Destiny didn't even debate this guy. Also he gave some crazy arguments, I guess Destiny didn't feel like arguing?
'Incels are just a symptom of the real problem - women's consent and the monogomous relationship'
Destiny - "ok"
Destiny killed himself (in a video game) in this debate
Destiny did not talk to the girl in this debate.
There is a large misunderstanding of what a worker coop is or how it functions here. If you actually want to learn something read about Mondragon in Spain, and click off this drivel.
Is there any web/youtube link to the guy on audio?
At 44:00 Stephan Molyneux shows up in this debate.
lol
ron paul
bernie sanders
and andrew yang
amazin
Lets just let bernie goooooo... he is too socialist and isnt addressing enough problems and flaws in his policy. Andrew yang is the shit though
"Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul are the same" might be the stupidest take ive ever heard. And ive heard a lot of stupid takes.
i miss old destiny my toxic levels are empty
That was great. Where can I get more from that guy?
Destiny played some KSP during this debate.
60k + 800/mo(2bd) vs 2.4/mo(extremely cheap rent in a city for 2bd)
4.9 years to be even, after that the 60k +800/mo becomes cheaper.
Even then finding a 2.4/mo 2bd is almost unheard of.
Did he mention if the 60k had to be a down payment or a fixed monthly w/ interest?
I'm 8 mins in does this video go anywhere or does he just talk without saying anything?
....Well.......
Lets say, we have another genius who's figured out a new economic system
At 40:00 the guest goes squadW
Same as any destiny video KEKW
Destiny, quick question; if you're for free speech, why are comments shadow banned based off using certain keywords? I've already tested it with an alternate account when I had trouble replying to comments. You can't use many slurs or curse words. Is it because of advertisements?
I recall hearing something on LTT's WAN Show about channels being held responsible for their comment sections following the pedo scandal that came out a few months back where people would leave comments of timestamps where a kids shirt would come up or whatever and subsequently a lot of those channels disabled comments altogether and many others moderate their comment sections more diligently now.
Or it could just be an automatic word filter, Knowing Better mentioned something about people complaining about their comments being deleted or whatever and (in his case at least) the comments were actually being picked up by the filter and awaiting approval to be shown/posted, not singled out and deleted.
Hard to tell since YT is so secretive about their platform's auto-moderation
PiPArtemis - It makes sense that they would want to keep the comments advertiser friendly because I only ever experienced this on monetized videos.
Pretty silly that they're going as far as punishing content creators for the comment section of their videos but we all know how hard up for money Google is so just something we have to grit our teeth over and accept for the foreseeable future. Shitty as it may be because they DEFINITELY dont seem to care about the rampant and overt antisemitism, racism, calls for violence in conservative/Alt-Right comment sections despite their constant whining about YT/FB/Google having an "anticonservative bias"
Where can I listen to more of this guy or his ideas?
I’m new here what exactly are destiny’s views
progressive in the social liberal in the economic: socialdemocrat
GONZALO FERNANDEZ ORTIZ american liberal or european liberal?
Capitalism is for the rich
Socialism is for the people
Socialism isn't for the people. You are a complete fool if you believe that.
Aren't these housing co-ops he's talking about basically just Condo's with HOAs?
I am so confused...
2 minutes of introduction and I still have no idea who he is.
This reminds me of the guy who created his own religion and kept complaining about tyt and infowars
Oh my god, I just had a vietnam flashback of that dude....
Was his daytime job a used car salesmen?
I checked all my Discord so many times when I kept hearing the boops while listening to this.
Damn, has Destiny just realised that ZOG is real? Seems hella depressed
He already said he doesn't care what happens to white people. If anything he just ignores it as long as he can play his video games.
Didn't know you debated highschool philosophy students...
I thought the guy had interesting ideas, at least worth examining. Disappointed in destiny dropping the ball and not testing these ideas.
Lmao as soon as he immediately opened with "too bad tulsi wasn't there" i was out
@Russian Account so you are for standing a chance rather than pushing the whole conversation to the topics that actually matters?
Not that there are many open source video games but Valve’s source engine is open source and massively popular right? CSS began as a mod and became an entire franchise.
I really would like to know are you still conservative?
Home ownership versus renting depends on where you live. If you live on the coasts renting might be your only option because even though renting is expensive there purchasing a home is astronimical. In the midwest if you rent you'll just be throwing away money. It's way cheaper to get a loan to buy a home, and pay a bank in the midwest. That is as long as you can keep up with payments. You can even pay ahead to reduce interest. And if you want to move you can just sell the rest of you're loan, or trade it for another load on a new home. If you rent you never get that money back. If you own, and add onto your home you increase the value of your home, and can make a profit even if the bank still technically owns your home when you sell.
On the opensource thing most software is opensource. Most people just don't see it because it's used in things no one directly uses. Like pretty much all routers use an opensource operating system. Or things that no one really thinks is open, or closed are using open source. Like Playstation game systems use an opensource operating system. Most web hosting companies use opensource OSs on their servers.
I swear i heard this and read the same comments like 6 months ago. What gives
Destiny got expropriated by the working class in this debate
Just skip to 53:05 to avoid the ear beating
43:57
SquadW moment
What is this guy even on about lmao
This guy would benefit from reading some Marx...or like any critical theory...
the mode of production is vital to the construction of social orders and it seems like he's kind of all over the place with no coherent foundational mechanism for labor interaction. But anyway, I mostly just wanted to point out at like 25:00 they discuss the idea of open source video games and come up with _nothing_ somehow so I just wanted to point out what Destiny surely knows but for whatever reason didn't connect.
itch.io is full of contemporary examples, but the early aughts in particular were _dominated_ by community mods because the executables were essentially just the game engine (mostly dissectible, not proprietary either) and separate from the resources which amounted to an extremely small barrier of entry for those that wanted to build on top of their favorite games and consequently tons of creative transformations were realized and enjoyed. The most popular examples (TF2, DoD, CS, DoTA obviously come to mind) later became games in their own right and many modders were hired by huge developers to go on and create some amazing games (reminded of desert combat for bf1942 where the mod devs were hired to work on BF2). Many developers even created and included editing software that they used to make their games originally to make this process even more streamlined for those that wanted to participate. My main point in bringing this up though is that this seems to me to be a great demonstration that by allowing free and open exchange, great ideas and creators were able to synthesize, collaborate, and be optimized in unique visions/transformations of the games they collectively desired and while there are a few great and open mainstream engines available currently, being able to see specific code snippets to then layer ideas on top of them and analyze the underlying mechanics of more massive contemporary proprietary games would definitely allow for massive innovation to those who may have lofty original ideas but lack the time to implement them from the ground up.
This general concept can be easily extrapolated to more generally include almost everything we value if the foundational competitive barrier for survival that forms the essence of the capitalist mode of production can be transformed into a cooperative one through giving everyone the opportunity and access to the means of production in a non-coercive democratic form.
You think destiny is ever going to read?
I love how he sometimes try to sneak in "marx said...." when he has literally zero idea what he's talking about.
Your boy gets his info from Koch funded CAFO institute. He doesn't even think to question his sources.
If Marx was alive today he would probably call video games a parasitic distraction that takes away labor from the economic system. He wasn't supportive of the idea of an "entertainment industry" which monetizes leisure.
Why did you put the word "debate" in the title? Destiny said maybe 20 words total, and 15 of them were "ok". I think he was reading a fucking book or something while the other guy talked. Just go back to right wingers, it was fun watching him dunk on tankies but he obviously isn't interested in doing it and I don't want to hear some guy rambling about open source software and polygamy(???) for an hour.
But ppl will still claim that Destiny is "one of them".
I don't think destiny should've uploaded this tbh, all this does is platform somewhat bad ideas or ways of thinking. Destiny put little effort in and didn't even try to call him out on bad claims.
"I don't want to hear myself talk"
I thought we were done with the socialism arc Painstiny in 3 2 1
@@web9529 you are just as ignorant as destiny. Where do you think the word libertarian comes from?
For sure let's hear two people who know nothing about farming discuss agricultural policy. At least look up something 🤪
"Destiny destroys Greg with all these topics"
How can I debate this guy?
Best argument for family farms: more diverse chain of supply for meat (less possibility of loosing a ton of food to viruses) and less necessity for antibiotics etc. which is a necessity to keep this many animals cage together all the time, with downsides ranging from not too well studied consequences on consumers as well as literally wasting the combat potential of antibiotics, accelerating the development of resistant viruses. Somebody who doesn't really make this point shouldn't debate on this topic.
its always more fun watching him debate right wingers
Destiny got it wrong on members "buying into coops". Its not like a capitalist corporation where there are millions of shares and if you buy 51% of them you're the majority shareholder. Each worker gets one share. So when a coop hires you you get a share or a vote. You can't buy more than one share. This is a fundamental democratic principle of worker cooperatives. Look at Mondragon corporation
I've enjoyed this vid but would've been better if "destroyed" was in the title
Games can't be considered purely software. People don't usually play games just because they are written in a technically good way. Most of the popular games are full of borderline game breaking bugs, but people still play them. I would say that games are mainly loved for the artistic work put into them, or for the infrastructure that allows for development of such gigantic and constantly developing games as league of legends, fortnite and what have you. You need a lot of capital to support those kinds of games. And even still there is a lot of opensource software being used in the process of their development and support.
And with indie games you don't see a lot of opensource ones, I guess for the same reasons as you don't see a lot of popular art being made for free (and it goes a lot of work into making a good indie game)
Why did destiny just let this guy talk without pushing back on anything or saying anything of his own? This was just listening to some random guy ramble
Destiny should get Andrew Yang, Rutger Bregman and Richard Wolff on his stream already. He keeps debating these nobodies, he's the opposite of a cloud chaser.
@Guiuu Shurt Wait what, they called Destiny homophobic and racist or Yang? And why?
@Guiuu Shurt That's gay, he doesn't do that anymore. Probably better for Yang that didn't get on though.
lmao "Dude, you live in the 21st century. You aren't compensating the dead."
They were already compensated wtf?
Well this wasn't very interesting, but todays rajj royale certainly will be. Athenewins will be on today get hyped will be some good memes
Vaush did this last week
I felt sorry for this guy. He was trying to get anything out of Destiny but all he got was "ok". It takes two to tango.
Destiny's game keeps crashing. He should get a better computer.
Please debate Brandon Cropper. If you want to see a REAL argument for capitalism.
Lol this guy looks like he worships Ayn Rand and believes in an objective morality...is this the right person you're referring to?
How much coke was this guy in? holy*** my man is in some good **t
He's 100% on stims.
Some topics were interesting, but the guy seemed nervous and wouldn't stop talking and changing topic, and Destiny just let him do it.
Vaush destroyed destiny in this debate
25:05 speaking about the videogame industry and open source without mentioning blender is like speaking about Hitler without mentioning the holocaust
This wasnt even a debate
wow... so engaged...
As a dev, the meme that everything is open source is pretty misleading. Essentially the fundamentals are open source, but the end product almost never is. Software is also unique in the sense that once you build it there is almost no cost to keeping it and distributing it as open source, the benefit is that people will contribute fixes for free. A common thing to see is that software has a "community edition" that is open source and incorporates the fixes contributed by external people, but also offers aan enterprise/pro edition with support and closed source features, this edition is build on the "community edition". I don't think any of this works outside of software tbh.
Have you never heard of the most popular free software licence GPL?
You know the thing that the biggest software projects in the world use? Like Linux kernel and mozilla Firefox?
You can't just make it proprietary. That's the whole point of the license. If you change it and distribute it, you have to release the source and build instruction.
What you are talking about is called "open core" and it's a recent thing that is kind of dying out
And what do you mean it doesn't work outside of software? Do you think nothing existed before capitalists tried to control society with intelectual property? What are you even saying? For example do you not know anything about the history of philosophy or science?
It always struck me as either completely stupid or like some weird power fantasy domination fetish to advocate for capitalism as a worker. After all essentially it boils down to actively advocating for other people to make decisions for you regarding the production sphere, basically forfeiting your means to safeguard your interests. I mean I get why someone like Destiny might dislike socialism. After all his profession is essentially based on building para-social relationships in exchange for donations and its questionable whether a business model like that would survive under socialism, if we go beyond market socialism that is.
what about the carbon impact of shipping year old animals from one factory farm to another, and this happens multiple times a year. at the very least it would be less carbon impact to not truck un-slaughtered cows/chickens/pigs across the country and instead raise them in one place until slaughter? also the way these animals are fed is with mass produced corn and soy which puts a massive tax burden on our economy from the subsidies required to produce enough to feed meat production.
"because capitalism"
Come on, isn't that a bit lazy? What capitalism? People trying to improve their lives? Yes .... people do that.
And how would it benefit the poorest of the poor if you ban them from owning any type of productive machinery? They are mostly self-employed you know.
Destiny argued against a controversial take in this debate.
Not a socialist clearly. This sounded like a high rant from the guy
woah! co-ops are not socialist.
damn you were so unacommodating to him for no apparent reason lmao
Short and simple reality, like you said Destiny exponential growth isn't the future, tapering off seems the case. The global monetary system functions solely on the assumption of growth, eurodollar system pulls money from the future assuming exponential growth will pay it back. Policy and politicians are stuck in a catch 22 where slowing down growth to pay for debt is untenable but speeding up means borrowing more and more. Annual budget interest payments will only continue to increase as a % of the budget being paid for by tax receipts, borrowing will have to increase to make those payments creating a debt trap. Globally USD liquidity crisis will occur as domestic currencies are continued to be devalued against the USD, USD being required for all international trade.
Destiny didnt even participate in this debate wtf, he just fucking listened to him lol
I was early to this debate
Can Destiny stop with the "small farms are less eco friendly than large farms" canard? It's some dumb vegan talking point. Pretty similar to the "more immigration=more unemployment" shit.
Destiny: "What's your most controversial position?:
Other guy: "I think women should be educated." 🤦♂️
There is no evidence that capitalism is capable of dealing with the climate catastrophe that it is responsible for.
It's pure faith that keeps people like Destiny and his fans going.
He likes to concern troll about famines during state capitalist experiments and blames communism, but if you ask him if capitalism is responsible for climate catastrophe with the many disasters (famines being just one) he wouldn't see a connection between the two.
Religious faith.
Destiny has said that these lefty "debates" are boring so why do they keep being uploaded? He's clearly uninterested and that results in content that's nothing but some random guy rambling for an hour. Please let the lefty arc be over soon this is so fucking bad.
37:37 Ron (Rand - I was mistaken) Paul is consistent? He referred to socialized healthcare as slavery - then choose to go to Canada to take advantage of socialized healthcare (i.e. slavery).
diskotyque you might be thinking of Rand Paul
@@JTorrenceful - Thank you, JTorrenceful. I was mistaken. Edited original message.
Mm hmm... Yep. *tiny sigh" mmmm right... yeah... mm hmm.
This guy sounds like a used car salesmen.
This guy touting co-ops and socialism meanwhile rents room from illegal co-op sub-leasing capitalist. This is too good. xD
this gamble did not pay off
As far as open source in video games a lot games get most of their value from mods. Minecraft is a great example of that.
@Tim Portantno of course people fork mods in Minecraft, why wouldn't they? Just go on github and search
Ok here's a controversial take; I think you can spread other things in toast, other than butter. 😳
He seemed like a nice fellow.
This was boring, he barely formed an opinion, let alone an argument. Even Kiddie-Gloves Destiny lost interest.
this guy is basically just a baby vaush