TWO BIG reasons why you SHOULDN'T use a Light Meter
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- I’m not saying you can’t use them, I’m simply explaining why for me they are a waste of money and can negatively affect creativity. What are your thoughts on using Light Meters?
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There's a huge difference between "I don't use a light meter" and "I no longer use a light meter having acquired the mental database of what light power does in X circumstance over the first half of my career"
Thats True xD
Also "I no longer use a light meter since I switched to using cameras that are functionally their own light meter."
Totally agree. As a beginner, it's all guesswork and time-wasting to get the right exposure. Having a Light meter is a timesaver especially when you're working with clients who are impatient. In fact, you can set up your light exposure before the client even arrives on the set...Lol
Hi, you can use any software such as Lightroom, Capture One or even the basic software that comes with a camera to shoot tethered. You can of course get light values to match exactly by measuring the RGB values at a specific point and then adjusting your lights to make those values again (it's just about 3 times more accurate tethered as light meters only work in 1/10th of an fstop). But unfortunately you have missed the overall point which was simply do you want to 'colour by numbers' or do you want to create? Choosing how YOU light a subject is the creative part and it's much more creative when you make all the decisions based on taste and not a recipe.
Playing the RUclips click bait game.
So Karl, I understand why you don't use a light meter, but here are a couple of good reasons to use one. They are a good educational tool if you don't have years of experience. Also, it depends on type of photography you are concerned with. In cases like crime scene/forensic photography, it is important to show the scene/evidence as it exists. There should be no creativity, just accuracy. It's good to get that incident measurement. Really like your work and the channel.
There's ALWAYS exceptions to to everything... thats a gimme!
As a corporate headshot photographer, that shoots almost exclusively on location, you won't catch me without my light meter. I work anywhere from offices with no windows and horrid fluorescent lights to ones with giant south facing windows. For this reason, other than 'environmental' shots, I always use aperture and shutter speed to kill the ambient and create my own light. Everything is done with strobes and the varying available light from job to job would mean guessing my starting flash output every time.
A light meter lets me arrive at a clients office, set up everything by myself as they continue their day to day work and get my lights very close to where I need them quickly before having them step in front of the camera. Lawyers, probably 60% or more of my clients, don't like standing around while you to take 'test shots' and fiddle with lights. That's time they could be racking up billable hours. In my case a light meter is indeed faster, at least from my clients perspective.
You are absolutely right. I think that Carl Tailor could be right in a studio situation or displaying the image in a calibrated display.
If u take the one size fits all approach? Then sure! But Karl is talking about creatIve portraits not production line! or ( school photos)I used to do actors headshots for years & I found different textured skin, different colored skin, different type of skin (oily or dry) required a different lighting approach as well as different face/shapes and considering the look your trying to achieve, i never used any set lighting ratios as they usually made the subject look too generic,
For example for Brunettes my kick/hair light was usually twice the power of blonde hair and where on some skin a beauty dish worked well, other skin types it look average and I would need to switch to a soft box or other diffuser, i also used different lenses to achieve a different look. What Karl is talking about is not your generic formal graduation photos but rather commercial/Advertising work for creatives.
In your comment, I assume you meant an external handheld meter. Great, I’m sure that works. If your camera has iTTL, it has a built in meter that could save you even more time, perhaps. That’s more money in your pocket. Use the tools that work for you. Joe McNally favours TTL, David Hoby does not. They rented a bus a few years ago and toured the US, kindly making stops near the border for us Canadians, and I learned from both of them.
If it can't be measured, it must be magic. That's why I use a light meter.
There are people that shoot analog today (again! - Just for the fun and the cool look of film!) and they'll definitively need a light meter 😅
I'm agree and some of those actually don't shoot film just for fun, many comercial and fine photography is coming from film cameras
When I was a professional photographer back in the day I used a light meter and understood why I was using it. It never inhibited my creativity at all!
Now many years later as an amateur photographer getting back into film I am definitely going to re-aquaint my self with the humble, old skool, light meter.
If you are shooting the same lighting set up at different locations and you want to create the exact same setup I believe a light meter will save you time.
@@shaolin95 agree, but he's not entirely wrong. Actually, a good practice on studio locations is to set your flash power, shutter speed and F stop aperture (high as in stomped down iris aperture) high enough to cut out all ambient light and have more control of your strobe lighting.
Of course, on location, where you usually want to actually capture ambient light, light meters can be more useful to replicate lighting setups
Totally agree and very good analogy with cooking food BUT ! You stopped using a lightmeter after 11 years of usage. You stopped using it after 11 years of great experience of how light reacts to changes and subjects. It gave you the opportunity to learn, feel and mould your light to your creativity. I still use a lightmeter in my academy classes because from experience it gives confidence to students and some sort of “control” on a set. Once I see that they get that confidence I start to learn them to get creative with the receipe. But I would never say “don’t use a lightmeter”. It is a very useful tool for learning and understanding. Great video and daring insight. 👍🏻
The light meter does not limit your creativity in any way. And it’s a must if you shooting film. Metering incident light gives you better consistency.
Ive been an advertising photographer for 30 years now. I havent used a lightmeter since 2002 apart from specific situations. To get a pure white background I need a difference of 1.5 stops difference in exposure from the foreground to background light. This works for both fashion or tabletop shooting on perspex. For me the time of using a light meter in those 2 situations is faster than tethered shooting because I understand the ratio. However thats an infrequent situation and I can do those without a light meter if I have to.
I totally agree with Karl's comments here, however as a newbie I am using a meter as a learning tool. I use it to measure flash ratios to put in my notes. My strobes are not digital and it can be difficult to dial in a desired ratio accurately. Over time I imagine I will develop the skills, but for now it's a valuable asset to accelerate my understanding. For example, I will set the strobes by eye with test shots, then measure the ratio and put that value in my notebook for future reference.
So you traded your light meter for a tether and a larger screen to meter your image 😝
Terry Breedlove He did mention that you could use the screen on the back of your camera too, if you bothered watching the video to the end.
He correctly said tethering is a better option where it takes less time.
philaw123 true but on board screens have a life of their own.
Yeah lol his answer to light meters is "chimp until you get the exposure right"
@@Skux720 My answer is to 'look' until you get the right exposure. Teach yourself to actually 'see' in photography and then you won't have to chimp at your light meter.
Hi Karl, as one who uses a light meter, I watched this with some interest. I found myself agreeing with what you said in a number of areas, like accuracy and to some extent, repeatability.
When I was learning to shoot, I was taught to do basic lighting setups - i.e.: understanding lighting ratios - without looking at a monitor or even through the viewfinder. The reason was that if I could learn to do at least a basic setup by eye, it would save time and all I would need was a single exposure reading. I never used Polaroids and perhaps in the same way as you view light meters, I never understood why others did, even with sheet film.
However, while this was simple enough in a studio, it was a different matter outdoors, where repeatability is often a matter of luck. In those cases, even in the digital world, having a light meter is an advantage.
In studio, if you’re using a complex system like Profoto, adjusting flash power reliably to one tenth of a stop and checking it on screen is a simple, if expensive, way to do it. Not everyone can do that. Constantly checking the monitor is what I was taught not to do. You have far more control than you do outdoors.
I’m not in anyway criticising your work methods or making any claim that what I do is better. You’re a professional and I’m retired and haven’t shot professionally for seven years. Your requirements and your workflow are different from mine. I never had your level of studio setup either. But I find that using a light meter, even in the digital world, still has some value.
I also do a lot of low light photography where the viewfinder of a modern mirrorless camera is almost useless. A light meter, especially a spot meter, can be very helpful here for establishing black points, etc.. Yes, you can do it with a test shot, no question. I just prefer the meter process (and no one can see me doing it in the dark anyway!😁).
Respectable, I only buy the creativity part, I think the light meter it´s just one part of all the technology we have, and as every of those elements, we need to use it to help our process and not to limit the creativity for not to having one.
I'm glad you mentioned that what you prefer to do is based on your personal opinion and years of experience in photography.
A light meter is just a tool. It doesn't limit your creativity. You do. I find light meters speed up the process during set-up and helps guarantee accuracy of light output before the camera is set. Professional photographers and assistants constantly use it on set. Yes, a good digital monitor with tethering helps but if you're doing multiple set ups/changes, a light meter helps drastically to save time. Also, light meters should be recommended to aspiring photographers to help them understand light and how to use it.
Hi Brent, I'm a professional photographer and so are many of my friends, colleagues and peers. We've all worked on big shoots for big companies and campaigns, we never use light meters unless shooting film so that argument just doesn't wash. Each of your other points I've counter argued and proven to be incorrect in this video.
@brent agreed. One size fits all usually doesn’t work but such mental models owe their prevalence to current societal reductionist tendencies. Glad you reminded me of my ownership of my outcomes. Thank you.
Why make it so personal....just relax...
I meter and shoot tethered. Honestly I’m just to the point where I’m tired of taking test shots....with the meter I can get my exposure in 1-2 shots..looking all in the in the computer screen is bla bla bla. As much as I love lighting I’m finding myself wanting to focus less on it and turn my attention to the execution of the concept and the model emotion. I also pre light so there’s that too. Overall y’all I say keep metering and get the lighting part over with.
@@shaolin95 I fine tune my shots much faster without a light meter and so do the actual pros I know
Definitely thought you were talking about not using one with film. Guess I'll still be using one
Internet should be thankful for this video
When I transitioned from film to digital, around 2004, I also quickly stopped using a light meter. Fast forward to just a few years ago when I found out there was a light meter that also can control my monolights wirelessly I was intrigued. It's now very handy to adjust power for each individual head directly from my light meter. I don't consider myself dependent on it, I know what exposure I want for a particular situation it just helps me adjust my lights quicker.
Makes sense. Cheers.
If you do know where and how to measure the light, precisely, and how to use a flashmeter, this is THE perfect tool.
As a sports/outdoor wear photographer. I don't have the false color or anything can check my images on my camera LCD in a field. And you can try watch the screen on 3000 meter altitude with a clear sky above your head. Let's see how good you are to get the light ratio right.
I really really hope camera company gives me a false color check in EVF, so I could seal my light meter for good.
Well I think it depends on what type of photography you focusing on, not all photography is about creativity, such as forensics photography, and I would still use a light meter if I am photographing a 10 by 10 foot art painting for catalogs, so I m sure every parts of it are evenly lit to show it’s true tone, fine retouching or color enhancement is not the requirement for such work.
And light meter reading is just a reference, it shouldn’t stop you and make any photography not to be creative, for example, with good use of a meter you can get a good idea what the reflected and incident light ratio which could help out some location shoot for beginners. And the only reason why good and experiences photographers don’t need a light meter are because they have years of experience, they know instantly what they are after, they can even tell what the exposure is the moment they arrived on a outdoor location, which isn’t something a beginner can do.
If you put 4 small grey cards, 1 in each corner of your painting and use the tethered method measuring the RGB values you could get your exposure values accurate to 1/30th of an fstop instead of 1/10th.
Karl Taylor unfortunately it doesn’t work for us, most the time, we aren’t allow to place anything on the object which could worth millions, so it wouldn’t be as accurate. And the slight change of an angle of the grey card can be misleading too. Anyway all I’m saying some tools exist for a purpose, there is always a situation they can make our life easier, even a shutter release, these days we could use timer, wifi sync on our phone, or tether to computer but I couldn’t tell people they shouldn’t use one as there are times they just make life easier such as when we are shooting Aurora at -20 outdoor with thick gloves on etc
Totally agree. Sold mine when I realized one day that I hadn't used it in years. However, wish I had it some times when I am trying to teach lighting. Just a good way to show the relationship between different lights.
If the values a light meter gives away takes away "one's ability to make decisions based purely on the emotional reaction," then certainly the RGB values you pulled up on the screen would do the same. You seem to be contradicting yourself.
Hi OnPortaits, I don't. I measure RGB values to check colour or to check the values of highlights if it's critical. Everything else is done by eye. In the video I showed how you could use the RGB values if you wanted to measure your light with 3 times the accuracy of a light meter or if you wanted to save the measurements if you had to repeat the same shot. I don't do that either but I thought I should point it out in the video as it seems to be a favourite argument for using a light meter.
I'm not born speaker and I really love Your pure English. Understable English which You have during explainig of photography issues and topics. Thank You so much for You work what You do for other peoples to better understanding of photography.
Thank you! 😃
can you recommend an app to measure light stops? I am a filmmaker and looking for an option to break down some film shots.
I have a gossen starlite, can't get dial to turn at all from 1° to 5° to __. Any ideas?
I had been getting along without a light meter but had recently been convinced that it was a good practice. Thanks for the alternative viewpoint. You just saved me several hundred dollars!
For Film cameras without meters I need a meter . With my mirrorless I don’t need an external meter.. it’s that simple. I can more or less guess the setting and be in the right range . I can fine tune rapidly without taking a shot. Digital has given me time to be creative.. my film stuff is because I enjoy the gear.
You know I didn’t use a light meter until a photographer that I really revere, sings the gospel about light meters so I returned to it. I shoot in very much the way that you do Karl, intuitively. And exactly what you said, I feel is what hinders me. I now refer to the light meter as the rule for which to shoot by and it conflicts with how I naturally work. (The photographer I mentioned shoots film a lot so there’s that) So now I am not going to go back to not using it which excites me. I think using it gave me more anxiety. Thank you so much for this video
After 35 years of shooting professionally I can confidently say that in 95% of all situations I can get my exposure correct without using either a lightmeter, or the LCD screen on the back of my camera. I definitely don't need to use RGB values when tethered shooting. Learning to assess light, by studying where shadows fall, understanding how surfaces reflect and absorb light and also understanding how both film and digital sensors work comes with years of practice and learning.
Just because I don't need one, doesn't mean I don't use one. I keep my Sekonic meter with me whenever I go on a shoot. I wouldn't have been able to learn how to assess light as well as I can without it all those years ago and I will continue to use it to help me make the right technical decisions to achieve the creative decision. The creative decision I chose to make, BEFORE I took the meter out of my bag. I use my meter in exactly the same way you use your RGB values when tethered shooting. Stop being so pompous, if you want get a point across demonstrate the pros and cons, and prove a point.
As an landscape photographer and working with slide film I mostly use incident light metering. Light conditions change sometimes very quickly. So I get more constant and color correct slides with my Gossen light meters. Some create photos, some calculate them digital and some used trial and error... everyone as he could.
IMO the difference between a pro and an average photographer is that the pro can adapt and adjust accordingly under various circumstances. I personally think it is important to not use a meter when starting out.
Truly agreed and appreciated. The spontaneity and instinct works great for me and being so calculative hits this free flowing process for me. Understanding and Observing together what goes with me to explore my creativity. Thanks for this video.✌️❤️
Ages ago I bought a hand meter because I was talked into believing that without it I would not be able to tackle the technique of photography. Now I hardly ever use it. At best it can accomplish 2% of what is needed in a photograph. This is the approximate technical settings of a photograph. Now comes the other 98%, That is the artistic aspect needed the do the final finish on the photograph. In the end it’s the art that makes the photo.
Yes totally agree with that
I think Karl Taylor is a brilliant and articulate photographer. Granted in today’s digital photography world one really doesn’t need a light meter especially in the studio. However I can’t agree with the principles outlined in this lecture as it applies to landscape photography. This is especially true when photographing in the golden hour. In this circumstance I find a 1 degree spot meter very useful. Required no helpful absolutely.
All this talk about CREATIVITY, PROBLEM SOLVING, VISUAL ARTS has me thinking that Photographers are starting to think like designers... Keep up the good work
I hope so although I'm not sure all of them are but I certainly encourage the ones I train to think like that.
Awesome... Great content as usual
There are a few of us still shooting analog you know. ;-)
Karl, just out of curiosity:
Do you still own the old Sinar or your RZ67? And if so, do you still take them for a spin every now and then?
Personally I have rarely ever used a light meter in conjunction with digital. The preview, histogram and the good old Mk1 Eyeball are enough for me here. For those times I shoot film, though, I usually have either a Sekonic 308 or a Gossen Spotmaster on me.
I‘ve also used a DSLR as a sort of „stand-in“ for polaroid test shots when shooting film, but I found that to be just too much of a hassle, given that I am not even doing this for pay and just for a bit of fun.
Hi Tim, no I held on to the Sinar for a while but sold them all within a few years of going digital medium format. I've not shot film since and have just gradually progressed with from the H1 to the H6 with their trade up program they had at the time. My first H1 purchase whilst it seemed a lot of money back in 2005 it was actually a no brainer as I was spending the same amount of film, processing and polaroids per year so once I had the H1 I was actually making more money per year as I kept the prices the same.
Thanks so much for this one Karl. Your presentations overall are more than helpful, but when you touch on points like this it lets me know I'm on the right track.
Glad it was helpful!
In a controlled studio with a static subject... and time I have to agree, but a light meter can be invaluable if you are proficient using one analytically and in a hurry. As a teaching/ learning tool, they can answer many questions. regardless, your tutorials are over the top, informative and beyond inspirational! Cheers
That's why a pro is called a pro. Not because he has some fancy equipment but because he gives good advice that he himself follows. Hat's off.
Cheers.
How can I use the RGB values in LR/CO to get correct exposure for skin for headshots? How far away from pure white should my highlights be on the skin? In studio, I tend to underexpose and find myself bringing up my exposure in post sometimes more than I want to. I’m looking for a relatively measurable way to get more consistent results. Is this basically what a light meter does? If so, there should be a way to measure this on a monitor without the meter. Thanks for all comments.
Hi, first of all let's look at your question as you mention 'how far away from pure white should my highlights be on skin' - my answer to that is usually quite far but it depends on the lighting style, hard, agressive, soft, flat etc etc as each will produce different highlight exposure levels as will the distance placement of the lights. If you look at my people pictures here karltaylor.com/people try to assess where i'm getting close to very bright highlights and when I'm not and mostly i'm not but it depends on the style of picture I'm aiming for. The next and most important thing to know is to understand how light to subject distance has a huge impact on image forming reflections exposure compared to general matt areas, what I call resonance exposure. The physics of this dictates that the closer your light source is to the subject then the closer the balance will be of highlight exposure to matt area exposure. So if you shoot with your lights far away from your subject then the problem of overexposed highlights can increase although global illumination fill lighting will have a bearing on this - I cover this in-depth in our lighting classes on our website, you can find a link to the website below this video. In particular look in the Lighting Theory section.
I really like zone-system metering with a spot meter on location to get a good idea of what I wanna do creatively with my highlights within a limited span of time. it's really useful for shooting fleeting expressions of urban life and other incidental situations that don't get a chance to repeat themselves. some scenes might call for full latitude, others depend upon flattening or boldening dynamic range to really nail a mood.
Very well put together .... Bravo !!!
My teacher has been a photographer since the 1970s and he uses a light meter for our classes. It helps a lot for both film and digital photography. Currently, I own a Sekonic light meter for my photoshoots and it helped me a great deal in ambient outdoor lighting when I am shooting with my Nikon film camera. I was able to nail the shot with and without my Nikon Speedlight.
Well if you're happy working this way you go for it. Mine can stay in a cupboard somewhere as I'm perfectly happy at the work I produce without it!
Hi Karl, I'm an ameture photographer who mainly shoots medium format black and white film. I've recently purchased a sekonic 308 light meter to try and learn more about contrast in my shots. Is this something that would only be possible with an applicable light meter, or is there a way I can assess my environment to get an idea of how it will translate into shots. I try to keep test shots to a minimal as not to burn through my film. Great video btw.
Hi Nathan, yes I consider Light Meters and essential piece of kit for film photography and as I mentioned in the video I also used to use one back in my film days. For B&W you should also be thinking about the zone system and how that will apply to your B&W paper grades and printing. Look into the work of Ansel Adams and other master B&W photographers/printers to learn more. There are also different film stocks that yield different contrast results but mostly it is in the printing stage.
@@VisualEducationStudio thank you for the reply and advice Karl, I've recently purchased (I th8nk) book Ansel Adams book number 2, the print and have been reading about the works of Henri Cartier-Bresson. I mainly use Ilford delta 100 and like to frequently play with low iso Adox films. Thank you for your time Karl and for all of your helpful and informative videos. 👏
Good if you can afford that gear! Good points, however Light meter is a good starting point. You are coming from many years of experience. All coming through tethered capture. Your point is valid. I use a light meter, doesn't stop my creativity. It's a starting point before a client arrives, once set up then flavour the lighting by adjusting up or down or even move the light and modifier. Using strobes and trigger system that talks to each other you can adjust from camera Position. Good points you made though.
You don't need expensive gear, you could tether almost any DSLR into Lightroom or Capture One and do exactly the same as I demonstrated in this video.
I’m getting back into doing some film photography, so I’m about to get a light meter. Not giving up digital, but adding in some film for fun.
Agreed , usually only takes a few test shots and I only seem to be getting better at dialing in the light quicker. Keep practicing and it becomes second nature.
I only use manual focus lenses because the autofocus is killing my creativity. Just kidding. 70% of my work is taking photos of people. I like to have my light set before the model enters the scene. So to set the light without having someone to take a test shot a light meter is necessary. I also need it to set the light ratios that I like. And it’s very helpful to balance ambient light and strobes. I would say in all cases where you need the lights to be set before the model enters the scene you need a light meter. I think it’s too much trial and error just checking the screen.
Inspiring line of thought, much appreciated.
Cheers
It all depends whether you are a slave to the meter or it is just another tool that you have mastery of IMHO
It's not a tool that has any requirement to master if shooting digitally. It's a bit like using a separate tyre pressure gauge when your car already measures them and displays the pressure on your dashboard with 1psi accuracy. Additionally what can you expect the light meter to tell you? It says 'set your lights to this' - when you can just look at the result on screen and set them to what will looks best for the mood or emotion you are trying to convey.
Karl Taylor all depends on your setup, on your studio setup you are tethered to high end computers, not everyone works that way as in not everyone has the built in digital tyre pressure but I get exactly what you are saying
@@shaolin95 lol..Its just Photography guys. What works for one doesnt work for another..find your path and follow it. You want a Light Meter get it..you dont want a Light meter don't get it. My car doesn't display the my Tire pressure so I have to get a handheld one until I can afford a car that digitally Displays my car tire pressure.
@@MikeWeeks In the video Karl mentions he stopped using light meters with his first digital camera...he wasnt (I suppose) as much much hight tech equipped back then as now, but the point is, you should not reject what your eyes like, because the light meter says otherwise....Today, we can see the photos we take instantly on the screen - you either like it or don't. What happens if the light meter tells you OK, but your feeling/eyes says NOK? You discard the photo?? I can understand the other side, but for me (still being a novice though) I tried to rely on the light meter, but actually can't find a reason to...it reads evaluated estimations, which I often don't like and actually I have a different perspective for the photo then the meter...its OK I'd say, in my limited knowledge, to have it as an estjmate if you want to use one, but being crucial....I don't know...🤷♂️
Let my people go
As a studio portrait photographer of fashion, I have to deal with clients who want their garments to have punch and great colour. The face of the model is only important because I go against the trend and I ask the model if she feels good wearing that garment. So a natural smile is an asset. To me, things like aperture and film speed are fixed, like f5.6 of f8 and 200/s, So my only adjustments can be ISO and flash power. I like to have everything close to correct, in focus front to back, even before the model takes position. I can't waste their time buy taking lots of test shots. So I use a light meter on the dress beforehand to get in the ball park. They might have 12 garments to model in a shoot and a good model is costing $500 an hour just to be there.
Thank you for your insight Karl. Your videos are always so informative and helpful. And, your work is amazing!! Thanks for sharing!!
I appreciate that. Thank you.
Fantastic! I started watching this with skepticism and fully agree with all your reasons... TY
Glad you enjoyed it
What about difference between source light meassure and reflected light meassure? I thought that light meter is essential as baseline for source light meassure as Your camera creativity plays only with reflected light. But... I might be wrong. Or?
I arrived at your conclusions over 40 years ago, while still using film. Knowledge and experience with the film type, and an understanding of light, informed my exposure choices.
Well explained. Those with mirrorless cameras can get in the ballpark with iTTL, check their RGB histograms and then concentrate on the creative aspects you spoke of. Your creative process likely began well before the shoot, and so should ours.
Congratulations on your realisation which is absolutely correct. The image is already completed in my mind, the next stages are the execution of that pre-visualisation.
bro, this is a great video. i really appreciate your insight on this. gonna refer my light meter sticklers to this video.
Glad it was helpful! But I'm not saying people can't use light meters I'm just clarifying why I think they are pointless.
How to use mediumformat film and flashlighting without lightmeter?
Im old school and lived with a meter, using dome, flat disk, and spot attachment. When shooting in studio, I use it just to get a base f/stop and from there, Im shooting and looking at what I need to add for accent, dimension and detail where needed. I understand the point made here. Back in the day it was very much needed, but so much less today. For new photogs, learn it and when you feel comfortable not using it, you will know it by what you are capturing. I have three, and it is just part of my tools.
A definitive argument, I feel, for why a separate or hand-held meter is redundant in digital photography. I’m not sure that I fully understand how Karl makes an R G B measurement on screen. If someone can explain this to me, it would be appreciated! Pretty much everything else that Karl explained doesn’t need to be expounded further, nor argued against in favour of a light meter as being necessary IMHO..!
I agree with the premise of this video but I still occasionally use a light meter at wedding receptions. A meter can be helpful when the subject isn't in place so there's nothing to test shoot. I often have to setup for a first dance or speech before there's anyone there to test shoot. Being able to go out on the floor myself and set my lights "in the ball park" without the aid of another person to stand there has been helpful. In the end, it usually takes me several shots of the real thing to tweak the lights by appearance and disregarding what the meter originally said.
So this only really applies to tethered photography in a studio.
I wouldn’t work on any film or TV set without a light meter. There’s this thing call pre lighting where you don’t have the camera there or it’s doing something else and so having a light meter is key. And most of the light meters now are also spectrometers which are incredibly useful in variable conditions.
Welcome back, Karl! Not entirely sure if you were quiet for a while or I was too busy being a photographer but when I was starting off I bought a few of your tutorials and some of the lessons learnt, I still use today. Cheers buddy
Welcome back! And cheers.
Agreed. Light meters are for film shooters (actually, I am considering getting a second hand 645 for fun, maybe meter then would be in order). The only case when I need a meter (and for that I use a free phone app) is when I need to set up light for shooting flat artwork to check how even is the lighting across the whole picture.
Tengo un Sekonic y nunca lo utilizo. Solo cuando dicto clases de fotografía para explicar cómo medíamos la luz en la era análoga. Gracias Karl.
I only really started to rely on a light meter when I moved to digital. Interesting comparison.
That doesn't make any sense, especially if you shoot tethered.
I resonate with what his analysis. I'm always playing with the light in images, and deciding if I take the exposure down a stop or 2. I rarely would use a light metre..I love fine art cinematic lighting..
Exactly Carmen
Already having a light meter, I still use it on occasion. If I didn't have one now that i have a digital camera, I doubt I would get one. You have to learn how to use one based off of what you get from it just the same as being tethered or using the screen. The way that you can look at the monitor or screen and conclude that you need to make whatever adjustments to the lighting you can do the same with a light meter. Measure the light, and based off of what you get, if you want to darken things for a certain mood, you can know what adjustments need to be made to get there.
This was a topic for thought and discussion providing one side of it. With digital, you are not behind or lacking if you don't have a light meter. And you are not obsolete, pretentious, or outside of the loop on anything if you do use one. Gavin Hooey still likes to use a meter.
I never used light meter right from the film days. In those days, for ambient light photography, I depended on camera metering mostly using average metering. For flash mounted on top of camera, I learned the flash guide number GN, ASA, aperture, flash syn shutter speed (slower 1/30s to capture the environment mood), the subject distance, and finally the subject's reflectance, in particular light or dark skin tones by actual shootings. Sometimes I used flash's auto aperture depending on the circumstances. It was slow and costly then to learn. The same applies to fill flash, 1/2 to 1/16 power when shooting outdoors. Fast forward to digital photography today, it's so much easier, faster to see the results instantly and then make adjustments for correct exposure. It's day and night difference. For my style of photography - street, travel, sports and action, the light meter has never been and will not be in my mind.
Digital cameras still have metering display for ambient light. I don't fell myself less creative using it.
But I appreciate your point of view.
are your lights shooting manually,or ttl metering?
I can't see any point in TTL studio lights either. I really struggle to understand why people have so much trouble not seeing light in the same way you listen to music. You turn them up or down in power just like a volume dial. A studio light has a maximum output power and a minimum power just like a volume slider. Put it in the middle, choose the aperture you want to use for DOF reasons and then take a test shot. Look at the result and go up or down, couldn't be easier.
Brilliant! I think this argument holds up well with photographers relying just on the light meters exposure within the camera too. There's Manual mode....... and there's Manual mode.
I don’t use light meter anymore either...yet when I did it was a ‘ballpark’ device...I’d maybe check the balance on two speedlights or ambient on a composition then put it away and let the eye and mind carry on with the creativity....if using the light meter it doesn’t have to tie you down.
Your tether working system is one giant, far more intricate meter than any physical meter out there. You have also gotten to a point where you understand light. Telling someone who doesn’t have years of experience to get rid of a light meter is actually hurting their education process. You need to learn to crawl before you can walk. Every photographer who I have ever personally seen that doesn’t use a meter doesn’t come to 10% the skill level you have achieved. Once they learn how to harness and understand light, fine. If at that point they want to ditch the meter so be it. However telling newbies to do so is hurting their learning curve. If you truly believe this never read any pixel values again off your computer screen ever again. Simply eyeball everything you do. That is what a newbie is hearing when you say this.
Hi Bruce, I'm afraid I don't agree - all photographers can access a tethered shooting setup for less than $50 these days as all the camera manufacturers have some basic form of tethering software included and you only need a cable. Some of them are a bit clunky but Lightroom works pretty well and then there are other excellent ones such as Capture One for a couple of hundred dollars. I also don't consider not using a light meter as a walk before you run scenario, that's not what this video is about. This video is primarily about learning to 'see' light than to be 'told' by a machine what light should be, that for me is actually an easier and more intuitive way to learn and will help new photographers far more than referring to a 'calculator' every time they move a light. By training your eye to decide if something is too bright or too dark is what evolves style, technique and vision. There is also nothing really that difficult about arriving at the best exposure, you should have already decided what aperture you're shooting before you start, you should never change the aperture to suit the lights (or light meter) as you've destroyed the first step of the creative process. If you've already decided the aperture then what's left? Only the power of the light setting! Put it on its mid power, is it too dark on the first test or is it too bright? Then simply turn it up or down based on what you see (just like turning the volume up and down on your music system based on what you hear, we don't get a sound meter out for that!). Then you take another test shot and then with another up or down tweak you'll be there without having to take a single reading. What this does is teaches you to 'see' light and allows photographers to become very skilled in recognising what one stop or two and half stops too much light looks like or half a stop under actually looks like. In doing so you craft your vision to understand and see light and know what needs fixing without ever having to pick up the calculator. And just for the record I very rarely check the values on screen anyway, I just wanted to show in this video that you can because it's useful for repeatability without having to write anything down (all the info is stored in the shot). I've taught photography at the highest level for 13 years following a 30 year successful career in photography - karltaylor.com/ - in simple terms, dare I say it, I know what I'm talking about. I've also spent half my career using light-meters because they were essential tools in the days of film but they're not anymore, in fact they can slow you down and bias your opinion which is what this video was pointing out. Even without tethering and just using the camera preview screen and zooming in and panning around can show you enough, especially if you check the histogram too, all the light-meters we need are in our brain, eyes and the information on the screen big or small. There are many people who disagree with me at first on this but the ones I've convinced to try it for their next 3 shoots, never go back to a light-meter. And besides it's not that big a deal if photographers want to use one or don't, we're not curing diseases here or working on astrophysics, we just make pictures and I was just offering an opinion based on my experience. No one has to listen.
@@VisualEducationStudio Super insightful video and reply. Thank you!!
@@VisualEducationStudio As you know better than anyone here, the "machine" is not telling you what that light should be. It tells what that light IS. You, then, decide what that light should be by moving it closer or farther from the subject or altering its intensity. As you probably do with your tethered "light metering" method.
Not everyone has his own studio, not everyone has computers and monitors available at their rental studios - not to mention on location. So, learning to use and owning a lightmeter, in my opinion, is an important part of learning about how light works and how you control it. Be it for film or digital, since knowledge and practice will give you the right exposure, no matter which media you're using.
By the way you're putting it, this method - that works perfectly for you because of your needs, investment, team around and history that led you to it - might be taken as a must for many. And it might keep them from starting with a cheap, used lightmeter, because they believe that's not worth it. I can't see how $50 will buy you a cable, computer and monitor to theter your camera but it might buy you a used lightmeter you can use anywhere.
As I see it, knowledge is more important than equipment. You can do a lot by using the sunny 16 rule. The more you know, the more you understand what you really need and what you don't. You've come to this setting as you way of mesuring light. That's an amazing setting and fine it works for you. For all who are at the same level as you, a lightmeter might be useless too. But not many of us out there are on the same level, specially those who do not live in your country and have a much toughter time to access equipment and knowledge. Maybe you could share yours on the use of a light meter. Like on a simple backlit window portrait, for example.
Thank you! My best!
@@joseerazevedo I do know better than probably most people here which is why I also show how your eyes and visual perception tell you what light is and then you can make your decisions from there. There isn't a photographer on the planet who doesn't have a computer or a tablet because they all edit there images, in fact all of them are making 'lighting decisions' by eye afterwards in the post production anyway, so why not just do it at the time of capture. If they all have a computer then buying a tethering cable is nothing. As soon as photographers start thinking of light like a volume control on their music system then the faster they will progress. You have to set the aperture as your first choice for creative reasons so the amount of flash you need has to be matched to that - up or down it's not complicated.
@José Eduardo R Azevedo For me, learning to train your eyes is more important. Then using types of equipment, It's like for drawing your tracing a work that already done. Rather than figuring out how the work is done, using tools, as flexible equipment, helps the work. But skips the knowledge, you need. It is my opinion though, I got my tether, less than 5$ as a beginner in Photography. You can even, make a studio inside your house for free, I got a personal studio only to focus my art. I want to learn the knowledge, using methodology and techniques. Because it opens your imagination, and more flexible to choose from whats the right taste for your Work. Hm, as an artist, who has been open to the art industry. We need to understand skills, methods, then relying on materialisms. I want to gather the information, on how they do it in a rough procedure. And if I had good learning, I use types of equipment to simplify time. To be prepared for a Photography field, you shall need to invest in specific requirements also. Doesn't mean you need to buy, a lot of softboxes or equipment. Natural light can help you, enhance works. It's how you need to understand, the freedom of creative choice. It's not only, the light meter tells you what light should be, you are like to cheat. Like tracing paper and a pencil. Don't make the equipment direct you if you have the mind to be open to choosing the right sprinkle to your works. Be open in a lot of ways, rather than equipment telling you. Practice your mind, learn how to goes, open to various ideas. It makes your eyes understand, how light works. I don't even have a light meter, but I want to learn the science behind light. How light spreads, how light reflects, how light bounces, what is light? If you put a light meter you will miss a lot of parts. Unless you want to buy one, and you have a certain field in photography that has a lot of products, and needs precision. Sample E-Commerce, white background and you just want the light to be balanced. To go one, with continuous shooting. But you can use the histogram in your camera, and other methods, what if you got no light meter? How will you open to the methods you need if your only depending on equipment? This is my point of view btw, thanks.
I have a light meter but I don't use it all the time. I will say though that using a properly calibrated meter lets me get the best quality out of my camera. I also don't trust the back of my camera and I don't always have access to my computer screen (nor do I want to view during a shoot). I will say you are right though hinting that most people that do have a meter have no idea how to properly use it (I am still learning). A lot of photographers don't use or understand the zone system so have no idea what their meter is doing and what the actual numbers are.
I would suggest to you that per-visualizing a shot requires you to creatively place scene values at various gray values in the frame. A light meter does nothing to limit that creativity, it is a meter which puts a number on various elements of the per-conceived intent.
As a scientific photographer both making images in extremely challenging light conditions and training complete amateurs to do so, I can assure you that very few people out there understand the concept of modifying scene dynamic range to fit the camera's abilities. A light meter wont do that itself, but by focusing peoples attention on it, and practically moving in and around the subject with a simple handheld device, they can to begin to understand why it is so important.
Also, your RGB values are not necessarily the actual RGB values in your raw data. Many software apps actually read these from the screen as a luminosity picker rather than from raw data. The image you see on screen is not raw data, it is a recipe which does not give a true representation of what your camera has captured. It's flawed and in applications where absolute values are needed (e.g. high-speed spectroscopy readings from a camera), these values are not enough.
I agree with all of your points based on the sphere you are operating in. I also said in this video there are scenarios where a light meter is essential, I used one with film for 15 year. This video was about visual perception and understanding what looks good and making assessments of that. In images where such visual perception is important then there is no need to do anything other than adjust the lighting until the subject looks good, where the subject looking good is the ultimate objective.
Good stuff. I have had this very convo with photog friends who live & die by their light meter.
Good, send them this :)
Based. Most will hate on this video, but in digital photography, it's mostly true. What is a much BETTER investment for digital photographers is a COLOUR METER!
Hi Karl, unrelated question but what is your view on Tilt & Shift lenses for product photography? I do not recall you ever mentioning them in the videos I have watched. Given that a 90mm F2.8L Canon TS-E lens is more than double the cost of the Canon 100mm F2.8L Macro lens, I wonder if the benefit is worth the investment? Cheers.
Hi Steve, I do have a tilt and shift adaptor that converts some of my lenses to tilt and shift but it also increases the focal length by 1.5... I use it with the 80mm lens and then I end up with the equivalent of the 120mm Macro but with tilt and shift. In honesty though as I also do a lot of focus stacking for some product shots it's not as needed as it used to be, I think I use it 1 in 20 shoots.
I totally agree, and that is exactly why I *do* use a light meter... ;-)
I use a lot of film (because I think it is fun and because I like the workflow, I am not a pro so speed and costs are a different consideration). However, when I'm using a digital camera (mostly for macro), I definitely don't need a light meter, as the result (i.e. 3 RGB histograms) can be seen immediately after making a photograph. But when I go out with my Mamiya M645 1000S, I do bring a light meter, because it might take a few days before I developed the film.
Putting my opinion aside, I do think that Karl made some very good points about creativity, speed and emotion that can be impaired by (supposedly very important) technique. The immediate visual feedback and evoked emotion in the digital photography process is very valuable, and actually the biggest pro as compared to film.
This makes a lot of sense.
I mean when i shot film I used the meter in the camera and an external. I have to admit that using a Meter did help me to learn Exposure.
It also taught me to manage light. There are times when i still use it, but I have to say that the days when on set remembering that i forgot my meter i no longer fear that.
Thanks for confirming my bias - I never used light meters except for the one built into my camera. Actually I have never seen a fellow photographer using one either. They were essential in the analogue days but the need for them is gone with technological advancement.
Exactly, thanks for your comment.
Thanks most of all for not making us struggle to delineate your voice over the top of some asinine 3-chord music loop. Having someone respect us enough to say what they have to say without thinking that we have to be coddled to maintain our focus is refreshing. I must say however, that using any tool for eleven years would probably allow you to proceed without the instruction manual, but newbies like me need all of instruction we can get.
Appreciated, but in your learning process please try a few times only looking at the images to decide whether the light should go up or down based on what you see and not on what you measure.
Thank you for sharing this😊
Very helpful and inspiring -- thank you!!
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, I was considering buying one as I take more portraits with flash now, but I realise that taking 5-6 test shots with my blinkies turned on does the same thing for free.
Glad it was helpful!
I love it Karl, tell it like it is, 100% agree with your thinking. You don't need a light meter, but I feel to be a better photographer it's very important to take an interest in understanding light💡⚡
Thank you and yes understanding light is the most important thing, I have another video on that coming soon.
Very clear, informative and convincing. Thank you.
Thank you.
I had a top of the line Sekonic L-858 for a year. Used it on 3 shoots, 1 digital and 2 on film. The film effort was temporary and for digital I much prefer just eyeballing it for speed. I know how each of my cameras behave with shadows and highlights and ETTL/ETTR accordingly. Haven’t missed the Sekonic since I sold it.
Exactly! :)
I used the 4x5 Polaroid test shot in the 60s and used Kodak XX sheet film because it had same ASA, so I didn’t have to change the aperture or shutter speed. But wow I agree completely with you about creativity. I found using the Zone system killed my creativity because I was overly focused on technical control and lost my right brain based ability to see. If you open up to the infinite possibilities and freely interact with them then the technical control assumes its proper role of serving the process of visual discovery and photographic capture.
Absolutely, we mustn't forget to see.
i hardly ever use a light meter any more but Karl's reasoning is mostly based upon "tethering" in studio which is a unique situation that doesn't apply the vast amount of people that shoot photography. still i could care less about a meter these days even though i don't tether.
Hi thanks for your comments, yes you are right it is based mostly on a tethering situation but I also don't use one when not tethered, location fashion shots for example. Although my point was that tethered or un-tethered the decision making is based on visual information only and what looks/feels right for the emotion i'm trying to convey in the shot. For shots where that isn't necessary such as documenting artworks, where reproductive consistency is required then I'm not against them being used but a colour check measured tethered in each corner of the painting would actually be more accurate - so as I demonstrated in the video I no longer see the point of them.
@@VisualEducationStudio im with you only pointing out that much of this video was showing you tethered which wouldn't apply to most people. i agree with you about not feeling the need for a meter much anymore though. thanks for responding and you do very good videos.
Very compelling arguments presented in an engaging, concise and enlightening manner. You have a new subscriber.
Thanks and welcome
In the rush to brag about low-light capability, manufacturers are fudging the ISO values of their cameras, Because ISO isn’t reliable, I find the meter readings off the mark and no more reliable than my eye. Having said that, most cinematographers use light meters. I wouldn’t like to tell Roger Deakin that he isn’t creative...
Totally agree. I've never seen a proper DP not use a light meter. Try pussyfooting around with a union Grip and asking him to constantly swap out heavy lights until "it looks right on the screen." You will have mutiny in no time.
Conspiracy theory? Or is your assertion evidenced?
I had a friend who was an engineer for Sony. Years ago, he told me all digital sensors post 2005 could shoot clean photographs at any ISO, from 50 to infinity. Basically, he said that camera manufactures unnecessarily replicated "digital iso" to sell more cameras.
I am not a professional photographer but do it as a hobby. I don't use a light metre. Not because of any reason but simply because I can't afford a light metre. So does everything on trial and error basis; taking test shots after test shots and go for the one that please my eyes. Thanks for the insightful video.
Hehe the title is so click-bait.
I mostly agree with Karl, though. When I'm on digital cameras, I very rarely use external lightmeters.
Set the metering mode into spot meter, take a test shot, examine the histogram, and take another shot with some adjustments
Well, I'm not a studio photographer with all lightning gears and displays/LCD are calibrated, though.
90% of my shots are outdoor: sometimes street photography, sometimes landscape, ocasionally portrait.
But when I'm with 35mm or medium format film cameras, my Sekonic/Gossen is always ready. I don't want to mess with Polaroid backs. So far, lightmeter helps me because I always start with visualiation in mind, then consult the lightmeter how to achieve that. Well perhaps after I gain more experience, I can ditch it? :D
There is one really good reason to learn how use a light meter, and that is it teaches you about the relationship between, ISO, shutter speed and aperture. Sure I do what Karl does, I look at the monitor and make my adjustments according to what I see. Give me a manual film camera and light meter and I am able to use it. With my modern DLSR, I use all three modes, shutter priority for fast moving objects, aperture when I want to control depth of field and manual when I want to control it all. I don't particularly like auto focus and I would much prefer for my viewfinder to have the old fashion split prism.
Interesting thoughts, I am pretty much a newbie to photography and am trying to learn. I caught up with some more experienced photographers over the weekend, where we used strobes. They all used light metres. I understand Karl's reasoning, and I assume, with experience the use of a metre while using a strobe will become more or less redundant. At least I hope so.
It doesn't even take any experience to work the way I showed James. Think of setting your lights like setting your volume on your music, you turn it up or down until it sounds right.
I find a light meter gets me in the ball park fast. I then tweak settings a bit to be creative. Like an old friend, bring your old tools into your studio and celebrate their goodness.
I haven’t used a light meter since film as well. The current digital bodies are so much smarter in figuring out light readings. I also go by initial exposure and adjust from there. A light meter is just another piece of kit I don’t have to carry on location with me.
Exactly