I still haven't taken the dive into macro or tilt/shift, but this was very interesting and not necessarily intuitive. I know you've said that focus distance affects the angle, but this showed that very clearly.
Thank you for that informative video! I didn't realize the effect of tilt would diminish so much at the macro level (your demonstrations were very helpful)!
Hi Keith. Added a comment to push your algo. I'm experimenting with shooting an image 'through' an AE-1 on bulb (small fortune in batteries). One effort taught me the lesson here: tilt has minimal effect at close range. Using a 45mm tse with a 12mm extension tube to try defocus the bottom of the image. I have an arsenal of lenses but the TS-E are by far the most entertaining. As ever, thank you.
Oh wow, thank you so much. I primarly wanted to look at a tilt shift lens on macro for watch/jewelry macro photography and I thought i could save a lot of time with the tilt/shift but thanks to you, i have learned the limitation and the range of shift it can do when your subject is too close. Bummer...
Thanks for that video! Interesting to see this in practice, it feels like the video is addressed directly at me since I did have a question on this a few days ago and was considering the exact same lens, and I think that I mentioned the exact same subject in my question, flowers 🌸 ! 😂 This demonstration is very helpful. I might still buy the lens but at least I know what _not_ to expect at close up distances. A T-S lens might be much more useful for me for wide angle when I'm shooting outdoors and want to get straight lines on buildings!
Keith's demonstration seems to illustrate that to increase depth of field of what is in focus at macro distances, focus bracketing (i.e., manually or with the auto feature built into the Canon RP) will be necessary when using this lens.
Yes, tilt simply does not work 'as well' at close focus distances and especially at 'true macro' distances. It also moves the plane of focus which is not the same as increasing DOF
@@KeithCooper Thanks for the reply. I am intrigued by the '...especially at 'true macro' distances.' I wonder if it is worthwhile to experiment with tilt at ~0.5x, +/- 0.15x, close-up distances with different subjects. I know you addressed the less than true macro distance a bit at the beginning of your video; however, I don't think this distance was the main focus of your video. Thus, I am left with wondering how much the tilt effect could be useful at less than true macro distance. A bit of a mystery to your video (🙂). Your video just might inspire me to experiment with the tilt effect at less than true macro distances myself, because I currently own a Canon RP and this same lens, and doing it myself is most fun. Of course, I will appreciate a YT demonstrating the benefit (if any) to tilting the lens for less than true macro distance photos. Happy end-of year holiday to you and all!
See here for that - covered in some detail [since they are articles not videos] www.northlight-images.co.uk/ts-e-90mm-f2-8l-macro-review/ and www.northlight-images.co.uk/ts-e-135mm-f-4l-macro-review/ Remember - My videos are often only supplements to my more detailed stuff - they also go back 20 years as opposed to 3 ;-)
Oh and don't forget that focus stacking won't behave as you expect once lens tilt is involved... To stack a tilted lens, camera movement is preferred - it's all about how focus ring adjustments swing the focal plane - very difficult to do with precision. I will look at this when testing the GF110mm TS lens
Hmmm, so one crazy shower thought idea i’ve had recently is the incorporation of first surface mirrors as a means of supplementing or offsetting these types of shortcomings. I can’t be the first person to think of this, therefore Im assuming there’s a valid reason as to why there aren’t contraptions that utilise them for either macro or normal stuff? Super interesting stuff. Thanks for posting these!
Hi Keith, thanks for this video. I was thinking about getting a tilting macro bellows, but now, I am not sure I need it. Sure, it has a much greater range of movement than a tse lens, but I'm thinking I'll run out of the image circle or even if I use medium format lenses, I might encounter physical vignetting when tilting (swinging rather) at angles greater than 20 degrees.
@@KeithCooper My experiment would be to compare the tilt effect with and without focus stacking to macro shots with and without focus stacking at one or more less than true macro distance(s), and see if there is any difference in the stacked images. However, I do not know if such experiment is worthwhile because I anticipate that it could a long time and much effort to accomplish the task, and the outcome might be obvious to a photographer who has lots of experience doing macro photography. For a novice like me, who does not have the knowledge to predict the most likely outcome, my curiosity needs to be strong to try it. 🤔
Interesting, I’ve been looking into bellow systems (actus/swebo) and tilt shift lenses for product photography. Which one do you reckon would be the best investment for that end? I’m talking about perfumes, bottles, glasses, watches, etc.
As long as you know the limits of what tilt will give you, longer lenses like the TS-E90 and TS-E135 perform well Depends on the camera though - the new Fuji 110TS is excellent. Once you start using lenses with bellows systems all sorts of uncommon lenses can be used, but I simply don't have any detailed testing of such stuff
Because it's not a macro lens ;-) For some [marketing] reason Canon and Fujifilm like to add the word 'macro' to their longer T/S lenses [90/110/135] For more normal product photography scales the 10º of tilt definitely does produce useful effects - remember the 100mm TTA I show as an example only has 8º I'll try and show some examples, once I produce a review of the 110
This video is only dealing with tilt, and not just the lens used as an example. Un-useful - is though, I'd suggest a harsh statement. For some close-up and some macro, tilt is still of far more use than shift. That said, not having shift as well is a limitation in some areas
![Why not to buy a tilt-shift lens [Fuji 30/5.6].Tilt-shift isn't magic, what do the lenses really do](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Zt9DjlaiUHA/mqdefault.jpg)
I had to watch the video twice as the first time through I was more curious and concerned you would spill your cup of coffee/tea
It's not happened yet ;-)
Thank you for your great videos on TS. I have learned a lot and saved myself some money. Glad I found your channel.
Thanks - all my T/S stuff is linked from
www.northlight-images.co.uk/photography-articles-and-reviews/tilt-and-shift-lens-articles-and-reviews/
I still haven't taken the dive into macro or tilt/shift, but this was very interesting and not necessarily intuitive. I know you've said that focus distance affects the angle, but this showed that very clearly.
Thanks - glad it made sense!
Thank you for that informative video! I didn't realize the effect of tilt would diminish so much at the macro level (your demonstrations were very helpful)!
Glad it was helpful!
Hi Keith. Added a comment to push your algo. I'm experimenting with shooting an image 'through' an AE-1 on bulb (small fortune in batteries).
One effort taught me the lesson here: tilt has minimal effect at close range. Using a 45mm tse with a 12mm extension tube to try defocus the bottom of the image.
I have an arsenal of lenses but the TS-E are by far the most entertaining. As ever, thank you.
Thanks!
Oh wow, thank you so much. I primarly wanted to look at a tilt shift lens on macro for watch/jewelry macro photography and I thought i could save a lot of time with the tilt/shift but thanks to you, i have learned the limitation and the range of shift it can do when your subject is too close. Bummer...
Tit can help, but needs care if close.
See some of the examples here
www.northlight-images.co.uk/ts-e-135mm-f-4l-macro-review/
Thanks for that video!
Interesting to see this in practice, it feels like the video is addressed directly at me since I did have a question on this a few days ago and was considering the exact same lens, and I think that I mentioned the exact same subject in my question, flowers 🌸 ! 😂
This demonstration is very helpful.
I might still buy the lens but at least I know what _not_ to expect at close up distances. A T-S lens might be much more useful for me for wide angle when I'm shooting outdoors and want to get straight lines on buildings!
Yes - this is why I always say I appreciate people asking questions... Thanks ;-)
Very informative video. Just bought your book
Thanks - hope you find it useful!
Keith's demonstration seems to illustrate that to increase depth of field of what is in focus at macro distances, focus bracketing (i.e., manually or with the auto feature built into the Canon RP) will be necessary when using this lens.
Yes, tilt simply does not work 'as well' at close focus distances and especially at 'true macro' distances.
It also moves the plane of focus which is not the same as increasing DOF
@@KeithCooper Thanks for the reply. I am intrigued by the '...especially at 'true macro' distances.' I wonder if it is worthwhile to experiment with tilt at ~0.5x, +/- 0.15x, close-up distances with different subjects. I know you addressed the less than true macro distance a bit at the beginning of your video; however, I don't think this distance was the main focus of your video. Thus, I am left with wondering how much the tilt effect could be useful at less than true macro distance. A bit of a mystery to your video (🙂). Your video just might inspire me to experiment with the tilt effect at less than true macro distances myself, because I currently own a Canon RP and this same lens, and doing it myself is most fun. Of course, I will appreciate a YT demonstrating the benefit (if any) to tilting the lens for less than true macro distance photos. Happy end-of year holiday to you and all!
See here for that - covered in some detail [since they are articles not videos]
www.northlight-images.co.uk/ts-e-90mm-f2-8l-macro-review/
and www.northlight-images.co.uk/ts-e-135mm-f-4l-macro-review/
Remember - My videos are often only supplements to my more detailed stuff - they also go back 20 years as opposed to 3 ;-)
Oh and don't forget that focus stacking won't behave as you expect once lens tilt is involved...
To stack a tilted lens, camera movement is preferred - it's all about how focus ring adjustments swing the focal plane - very difficult to do with precision.
I will look at this when testing the GF110mm TS lens
Hmmm, so one crazy shower thought idea i’ve had recently is the incorporation of first surface mirrors as a means of supplementing or offsetting these types of shortcomings. I can’t be the first person to think of this, therefore Im assuming there’s a valid reason as to why there aren’t contraptions that utilise them for either macro or normal stuff? Super interesting stuff. Thanks for posting these!
Not sure how mirror optics would help - how would it be used?
Hi Keith, thanks for this video. I was thinking about getting a tilting macro bellows, but now, I am not sure I need it. Sure, it has a much greater range of movement than a tse lens, but I'm thinking I'll run out of the image circle or even if I use medium format lenses, I might encounter physical vignetting when tilting (swinging rather) at angles greater than 20 degrees.
Thanks - glad it was of interest.
Not many lenses take 20+º of tilt without some serious loss of quality - a symmetrical design one might be better?
@@KeithCooper most of my work is at 1.5 - 3x life size. Does it even make sense to consider a bellows with a swing?
Lens tilt is unlikely to be much use at all in this instance. Any movement of the focal plane would be quite small
@@KeithCooper My experiment would be to compare the tilt effect with and without focus stacking to macro shots with and without focus stacking at one or more less than true macro distance(s), and see if there is any difference in the stacked images. However, I do not know if such experiment is worthwhile because I anticipate that it could a long time and much effort to accomplish the task, and the outcome might be obvious to a photographer who has lots of experience doing macro photography. For a novice like me, who does not have the knowledge to predict the most likely outcome, my curiosity needs to be strong to try it. 🤔
Interesting, I’ve been looking into bellow systems (actus/swebo) and tilt shift lenses for product photography. Which one do you reckon would be the best investment for that end? I’m talking about perfumes, bottles, glasses, watches, etc.
As long as you know the limits of what tilt will give you, longer lenses like the TS-E90 and TS-E135 perform well
Depends on the camera though - the new Fuji 110TS is excellent.
Once you start using lenses with bellows systems all sorts of uncommon lenses can be used, but I simply don't have any detailed testing of such stuff
Exactly
Yes - not what some expect...
Hmm, if tilt does not work für macro work, why would somebody buy the new Fuji GF 110mm T/S macro lens?
Because it's not a macro lens ;-)
For some [marketing] reason Canon and Fujifilm like to add the word 'macro' to their longer T/S lenses [90/110/135]
For more normal product photography scales the 10º of tilt definitely does produce useful effects - remember the 100mm TTA I show as an example only has 8º
I'll try and show some examples, once I produce a review of the 110
I hate Macro, I allways have DOF problem
Stacking is your friend? ;-)
@@KeithCooper not tested it yet
See here for my own approach [pt.1 of 3 articles]
www.northlight-images.co.uk/helicon-focus-for-basic-focus-stacking/
No shift... only the un-useful tilt
This video is only dealing with tilt, and not just the lens used as an example.
Un-useful - is though, I'd suggest a harsh statement. For some close-up and some macro, tilt is still of far more use than shift. That said, not having shift as well is a limitation in some areas