One of my most complex videos, but what's YOUR take on the topic? P.s.: "But if you say people with the same playing hand don't serve reverse sidespin serves to each other's forehands, why do guys like Jorgic do it with e.g. their backhand serves? Wouldn't that be the same concept of a sidespin serve diagonal in a match between L handers and R handers?" 1: Because in the example of Jorgic, he really serves from the forehand corner, not so much from the middle. That means that he can let the ball turn more outward, like I explained in the example at 04:55. People who serve more from the middle instead of the FH can't really make their serve turn outward that much. 2: It's incorrect to claim both situations are the same (reverse sidespin diagonal to short FH between L-L or R-R and regular sidespin diagonal to short FH between L and R handers). Why? Because when serving from the middle or FH part of the table (i.e. the 1st situation), you always run the risk of the receive coming in the deep BH or middle. That's not the case in the 2nd situation. Follow me on social media: Facebook: TTT facebook.com/profile.php?... YT: www.youtube.com/@OlavKTTT Instagram: instagram.com/olav.k.ttt/ TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@olav.k.ttt Check out the webshop of my sponsor Killypong: www.tafeltennis.be/
I think I mostly understand, but I've seen and practiced this deliberately before, there's a video by pech pong (Seth pech) on tips you didn't know about serve recieve, he explained quite well the idea of going with or against the sidespin and what situations to do both which helped give me context for this video. As a LH, if RH does pendulum I like this a lot as we have loads of options, go with the sidespin like Anders strawberry, going against the sidespin for a fast banana, and even going against the sidespin for short touch recieve. What I dislike a lot more is if people get this sidespin to my short FH on the white line, feels uncomfortable to FH touch because I have to bend my wrist weird, uncomfortable to BH flick because I have to move far from BH corner, so I feel only options left are to dig long or do a medium -low quality FH flick, this is definitely my weakness. Luckily many people serve too wide and I can take a FH off the table, or not wide enough making it easier to flick
As a lefty I serve like Grebnev occasionally because most players can't forehand flip anyway. But i think it's only useful as a variation because of the disadvantages you mentioned.
@@GuoJing2017Yes, that kind of sidespin is definitely not easy to control. My video on how to push short against all rotation (m.ruclips.net/video/ydMU-fGLfbg/видео.html) does have some answers to your problem, I believe.
The first part of the video was really easy to understand, but the second half was quite confusing. I understood it, but the format itself was not the most clear on this second half. The constant talk about changing the perspective of LH and RH confused me more if it was just one of the two and I mirrored it in my head. Maybe for next time you can show rather then tell some of this perspective changes. A short clip of the serve when you talk about serve LH, and then a short clip for the RH, so maybe the visualization makes your point clearer! But besides that, it was a cool video
It got a little confusing at the end, but a nice tactical video anyway. If the pendulum doesn't work my go to serves are a tomahawk from the forehand side or a backhand serve from anywhere on the table. Both of which I can send to my opponent pretty much anywhere on the table I want with whatever spin I want. Most players at my level either can't flip with the forehand or can but not with enough quality to be dangerous. So these two serves in the short forehand of a same handed player are often very effective, especially if they're constantly wary of the possibility that the serve might be placed elsewhere on the table.
Wonderful video Olav! Not only was it really well explained and edited, but it also was a really efficient way to introduce some general fundamentals of table tennis tactics and apply them to a specific situation. I saw you played Daaud Cheaib in the Challenger series a few weeks ago (that's when the video was posted, anyway). What's it like playing against someone with such a strange style? It felt like he did a lot of little things - spin variation? half long pushes? consistent defense? - to try to get your error rate higher.
Thanks! I have played him 3 times now (score is 1-2, always close but frustrating matches), and it's really annoying because of the circumstances. You're rarely put under pressure and you sometimes make 3-4 easy mistakes in a row (sometimes because of the context of the Challenger tournament: little warming up, different hall...), which can quickly cost you the set. All the 'little changes' matter little to me, tbh, because he doesn't put a lot of pressure on you. If he would attack immediately, that's a different story. I believe you lose matches against him largely because you start rushing and getting angry.
4:32, should the red line be curving out of the table and curving in the table because you would adjust your pendulum serve in a way that you apply side spin in the back instead.
Good video. You did a good job explaining a difficult topic. I also loved the darko jorgic video, maybe you could do more serve strategy analysis of pro players :)
I really enjoy these more technical videos ! Please keep them up ! I hope the analytics reflect this so that you can keep doing these :) is there any tips for the 5th ball after open up you could make? My feet are always planted somehow after the open up and when i try to take a small jump after the open up i feel loosing balance or just feel stuck again after the small jump. Thus making me miss the balls that are too short or too long (the ones i have to move ...) Do you have any advice on this? Personally i thought trying to open up the ball deeper removes part of this mistake because that forces the opponent to block/hit deeper to me as well. However this is more of a hack than a solution. The other thing i tried was to put less effort into the open up, so that i prepare more for the follow up. However then i keep missing the open up ... Thanks again so much for your videos ! I literally watch them as soon as they drop !
A bit confused in DJ video you say he use pendelum only vs lefties and backhand serve from forehand vs right handed so the opposite of what you say here ?
@@CorentinKaisergruber Yes and no. Remember that I sometimes have to oversimplify things to keep it short. I left a pinned comment which should explain things.
That's why A) I both demonstrated L against R and R against R and even mirrored a few examples (because would it be better if both me and Luk would switch hands just so the R hander is serving?), and B) I always added letters of the playing hands with the drawings, e.g. at 05:03. It's not an easy topic, I know.
@@OlavKTTT Yes, i find this video too confusing, because it is mixing constantly point of view of left hand and right hand. It would be much clearer if there was 2 independent video, one dedicated entireley for RH and one for LH players.
@@blast42I disagree, because I tried to avoid overlap + there are timestamps that separate the 'chapters'. And making 2 separate videos would not be the most attractive viewer-wise, I believe.
@@OlavKTTT I appreciate the effort that goes into these videos. I particularly appreciate that you filmed demonstrations of RH serves to help explain your points, when this is not your usual playing hand.
Wasn’t clear on reverse sidespin because you were demonstrating using normal sidespin. FZD’s reverse pendulum always stands in the same corner (left) as all other serves and goes down the line. Is that good or bad?
I am fairly certain I didn't. Sidespin serves = regular pendulum serves (like at 05:10). Reverse sidespin = the list of serves at 06:53. To answer your question: anything that FZD does is good 😊. His reverse pendulum serve from the BH corner down the line when he plays R handers is good (e.g. the green line at 07:25).
@OlavKTTT Some of the things mention were “not used often when leftie vs leftie or righty vs righty”, “people don’t serve down the line often”. Were you talking about reverse sidespin serves? Also Darko and Fan both do reverse sidespin with Darko stands on the right/middle going diagonal while Fan stands on left going down the line. Which one was promoted in the video?
@@kenji2787 Tbh these seem to be questions of someone who didn't watch the full video, and skipped or rushed through some of the parts. Maybe rewatch it, because the answers are to be found in the video my good sir.
One of my most complex videos, but what's YOUR take on the topic?
P.s.: "But if you say people with the same playing hand don't serve reverse sidespin serves to each other's forehands, why do guys like Jorgic do it with e.g. their backhand serves? Wouldn't that be the same concept of a sidespin serve diagonal in a match between L handers and R handers?"
1: Because in the example of Jorgic, he really serves from the forehand corner, not so much from the middle. That means that he can let the ball turn more outward, like I explained in the example at 04:55. People who serve more from the middle instead of the FH can't really make their serve turn outward that much.
2: It's incorrect to claim both situations are the same (reverse sidespin diagonal to short FH between L-L or R-R and regular sidespin diagonal to short FH between L and R handers). Why? Because when serving from the middle or FH part of the table (i.e. the 1st situation), you always run the risk of the receive coming in the deep BH or middle. That's not the case in the 2nd situation.
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I think I mostly understand, but I've seen and practiced this deliberately before, there's a video by pech pong (Seth pech) on tips you didn't know about serve recieve, he explained quite well the idea of going with or against the sidespin and what situations to do both which helped give me context for this video.
As a LH, if RH does pendulum I like this a lot as we have loads of options, go with the sidespin like Anders strawberry, going against the sidespin for a fast banana, and even going against the sidespin for short touch recieve. What I dislike a lot more is if people get this sidespin to my short FH on the white line, feels uncomfortable to FH touch because I have to bend my wrist weird, uncomfortable to BH flick because I have to move far from BH corner, so I feel only options left are to dig long or do a medium -low quality FH flick, this is definitely my weakness. Luckily many people serve too wide and I can take a FH off the table, or not wide enough making it easier to flick
For this reason I also tend to dislike recieving reverse sidespin more from RH because I have less options, tomahawk BH reverse pendulum etc
As a lefty I serve like Grebnev occasionally because most players can't forehand flip anyway. But i think it's only useful as a variation because of the disadvantages you mentioned.
@@GuoJing2017Yes, that kind of sidespin is definitely not easy to control. My video on how to push short against all rotation (m.ruclips.net/video/ydMU-fGLfbg/видео.html) does have some answers to your problem, I believe.
@klaupe393 Exactly that!
The first part of the video was really easy to understand, but the second half was quite confusing.
I understood it, but the format itself was not the most clear on this second half. The constant talk about changing the perspective of LH and RH confused me more if it was just one of the two and I mirrored it in my head.
Maybe for next time you can show rather then tell some of this perspective changes. A short clip of the serve when you talk about serve LH, and then a short clip for the RH, so maybe the visualization makes your point clearer!
But besides that, it was a cool video
It got a little confusing at the end, but a nice tactical video anyway.
If the pendulum doesn't work my go to serves are a tomahawk from the forehand side or a backhand serve from anywhere on the table. Both of which I can send to my opponent pretty much anywhere on the table I want with whatever spin I want.
Most players at my level either can't flip with the forehand or can but not with enough quality to be dangerous. So these two serves in the short forehand of a same handed player are often very effective, especially if they're constantly wary of the possibility that the serve might be placed elsewhere on the table.
Wonderful video Olav! Not only was it really well explained and edited, but it also was a really efficient way to introduce some general fundamentals of table tennis tactics and apply them to a specific situation.
I saw you played Daaud Cheaib in the Challenger series a few weeks ago (that's when the video was posted, anyway). What's it like playing against someone with such a strange style? It felt like he did a lot of little things - spin variation? half long pushes? consistent defense? - to try to get your error rate higher.
Thanks! I have played him 3 times now (score is 1-2, always close but frustrating matches), and it's really annoying because of the circumstances. You're rarely put under pressure and you sometimes make 3-4 easy mistakes in a row (sometimes because of the context of the Challenger tournament: little warming up, different hall...), which can quickly cost you the set.
All the 'little changes' matter little to me, tbh, because he doesn't put a lot of pressure on you. If he would attack immediately, that's a different story. I believe you lose matches against him largely because you start rushing and getting angry.
@@OlavKTTT thank you for the feedback! sounds like almost playing a defender haha.
4:32, should the red line be curving out of the table and curving in the table because you would adjust your pendulum serve in a way that you apply side spin in the back instead.
But then you'd have to move up towards the middle. So from the BH corner, it's not possible.
@@OlavKTTT if the first bounce was close to you, you can still adjust that serve like that while making sure the second bounce is on the table.
Good video. You did a good job explaining a difficult topic.
I also loved the darko jorgic video, maybe you could do more serve strategy analysis of pro players :)
I really should, I know.
I really enjoy these more technical videos !
Please keep them up !
I hope the analytics reflect this so that you can keep doing these :)
is there any tips for the 5th ball after open up you could make?
My feet are always planted somehow after the open up and when i try to take a small jump after the open up i feel loosing balance or just feel stuck again after the small jump. Thus making me miss the balls that are too short or too long (the ones i have to move ...)
Do you have any advice on this?
Personally i thought trying to open up the ball deeper removes part of this mistake because that forces the opponent to block/hit deeper to me as well. However this is more of a hack than a solution. The other thing i tried was to put less effort into the open up, so that i prepare more for the follow up. However then i keep missing the open up ...
Thanks again so much for your videos ! I literally watch them as soon as they drop !
Relaxation, depth of your 3rd ball and taking a step back after your 3rd ball are all important things.
Perfect for me. As I’m a left handed player
You can still learn as a right hander, of course :)
thanks for your effort!!!
🫡
Could you please make another video specifically for right handers as majority are right handers?
@@AkshaySharma-ut8cz Just... mirror it??? There won't be new information in that video if it would come out (which it won't)
A bit confused in DJ video you say he use pendelum only vs lefties and backhand serve from forehand vs right handed so the opposite of what you say here ?
@@CorentinKaisergruber Yes and no. Remember that I sometimes have to oversimplify things to keep it short. I left a pinned comment which should explain things.
@OlavKTTT will watch that video again ! Love your content thanks for all keep it up !
A bit confusing as you are a left hand player
That's why A) I both demonstrated L against R and R against R and even mirrored a few examples (because would it be better if both me and Luk would switch hands just so the R hander is serving?), and B) I always added letters of the playing hands with the drawings, e.g. at 05:03.
It's not an easy topic, I know.
@@OlavKTTT Yes, i find this video too confusing, because it is mixing constantly point of view of left hand and right hand. It would be much clearer if there was 2 independent video, one dedicated entireley for RH and one for LH players.
@@blast42I disagree, because I tried to avoid overlap + there are timestamps that separate the 'chapters'.
And making 2 separate videos would not be the most attractive viewer-wise, I believe.
@@OlavKTTT I appreciate the effort that goes into these videos. I particularly appreciate that you filmed demonstrations of RH serves to help explain your points, when this is not your usual playing hand.
Can you make video how make short touch against half long serve or video about tactics pendulum serve
@@Человекмира-у8с No, because you should just play topspin on that serve. The second suggestion: maybe.
Wasn’t clear on reverse sidespin because you were demonstrating using normal sidespin. FZD’s reverse pendulum always stands in the same corner (left) as all other serves and goes down the line. Is that good or bad?
I am fairly certain I didn't. Sidespin serves = regular pendulum serves (like at 05:10). Reverse sidespin = the list of serves at 06:53.
To answer your question: anything that FZD does is good 😊. His reverse pendulum serve from the BH corner down the line when he plays R handers is good (e.g. the green line at 07:25).
@OlavKTTT Some of the things mention were “not used often when leftie vs leftie or righty vs righty”, “people don’t serve down the line often”. Were you talking about reverse sidespin serves?
Also Darko and Fan both do reverse sidespin with Darko stands on the right/middle going diagonal while Fan stands on left going down the line. Which one was promoted in the video?
@@kenji2787 Tbh these seem to be questions of someone who didn't watch the full video, and skipped or rushed through some of the parts. Maybe rewatch it, because the answers are to be found in the video my good sir.
@OlavKTTT Yeah I must have skipped through the videos because there is zero chance the second part of this video is confusing.
nice...
Too much,,, too confusing. Thx