Bad Gear - BBE Sonic Maximizer - Most Useless FX Processor Of All Time???
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- Опубликовано: 12 мар 2020
- In this episode of Bad Gear, the show about the world's most hated audio tools, we will talk about the mysterious BBE Sonic Maximizer.
No one knows exactly what's going on inside of those controversial effects units but it is the first piece of gear that gave me actual nightmares. 
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As a dj who mainly plays electronic music, I have to say this processor is absolutely fantastic and worth every penny. Whatever it does, it makes any setup sound amazing. I can't live without them, I have 2
Great to hear that it works for you!
I use one for live sound with every genre of electronic music and the clarity is the reason.. I use it minimally, but it definitely communicates the signal to the speakers efficiently. The bypass button makes this easy to test for yourself. I’ve got the 882i with QSC KW 153’s and 181 subs.
I would agree Joshua, I am also a DJ and it makes my sound system sound amazing. So it just depends on the application.
I agree! I have two as well I don't know what or how they are connecting them
as there are so many ways
I wouldn't be without one.
Mine are about 15 years or more..love em!
I agree with you.i don't even use my eqs of which I have three... dbx and nady.
The bass is stronger and the highs are crystal clear. I have them for about 15/17 years now. Not one problem. I love em
Don't even miss using the equalizers
They were used in analog recording studios to add a little clarity and presence to the analog tape warmth. Microphones were produced with more high end edge to combat the high end loss of analog tape as well. Our studio started out with ADATs in the '90s, so I never bought a BBE but I know a lot of studios who used them. Results are very different in today's digital music.
They were popular for tape transfers, as well
that was super interesting, thanks man!
@@AudioPilz yes, I had forgotten that. Thanks for the reminder.
@@EgoTherapieLee I thought this was a great video. It's really interesting having learned on analog systems as the digital revolution ramped up and making the moves slowly toward computers ruling the roost. I love doing my work "in the box" as it were.
Thanks man, i worked in live entertainment all of my life. I never felt any real use for this in live sound. I didn't feel it could do anything that I couldn't get from my normal processing. that makes sense in a studio application. I worked in some studios in the analog days but had never seen one in use then and as a guitarist I had never even thought about it. I'm going to try it on my guitar though.
Repeat after me: The Sonic Maximizer is a SIDE CHAIN TREBLE EXPANDER. It's not a simple EQ or boost, what it does is dynamically boost treble frequencies based on the overall loudness of the input signal. Quiet signals get no treble boost, medium level signals get some treble boosting, loud signals get even more treble boosting, controlled by the "process" knob. The input signal is buffered and split in two - one side splits the signal into three bands, the other is sent to a level detector circuit. The output from the level detector is sent to a VCA which controls the treble poerion of the signal. My theory is the treble expansion helps undo some of the 'dullness' caused by compression, hence it being favored by people that are often compressed, like djenty guitars (distortion compresses guitars hugely) and bass.
The effect is not due to "time alignment of frequencies" and I don't understand why BBE sticks to this line of of obviously BS marketing-speak.
Do you have any papers or schematics to back this up? (I am searching for hard evidence on what this thing does for ages)
@@AudioPilz I have what appears to be a partial schematic, one channel of a stereo unit. and details like the power supply are not included, but it shows the signal path and processing, including a reverse engineering of the special BBE chip. It's a completely analog circuit that uses about 6 op-amps and a VCA. manualzz.com/doc/17699728/http---www.radio-flier.com-pdf%2520files-bbe%2520482i.pdf
@@erichanderson1491 great, THX!
Well, frequency is measured in time so....
Great answer. Thank you for this!
Wow! Absolutely one of my favorite pieces of equipment and I’ve been an engineer for many years.
I have it in my live PAs and in my guitar rig. It gives a sweet presence to my sound .. And it is not an EQ but when I ad it to my live mixer everything is richer and a little clearer without having to painstakingly tweet the eq. Yesterday I got the plugins and I just touch the mix with the harmonic I hammer and the boost and wow! So, I am surprised at all the hating on this simple and inexpensive processor. I love the warm sound of my Neve preamps, I love the life BBE brings in the end.
It's interesting. Did live sound for many years, too and I would never even think of using a BBE. It either does very little or severely damages the signal (my personal impression). Yet, there are many people (like, I assume, you) who get excellent results with it. That's a real love/hate thing
It delays lower frequency waveforms since they travel faster.
Similar to phase correction, but the time intervals different.
I use it out of my Audient into my monitor amp.
Gonna combine it with Kush Clariphonic.
Each time I'm done I'll take everything to a mixer and mastering service.
@@vorpalblades .5 and 2.5 milliseconds
Agree it transforms my helix and PA!! I love it!
It's for adding high end without adding noise since it's not just boosting a high freq range like an EQ. It's multiplying some of the fundamentals and REintroducting those multiplied fundamentals back into the source (as I understand it). These are also called aural exciters, Steinberg called theirs a spectralizer. I use it all the time on my voice overs to add bite w/o adding any high end hiss or extra noise. It can help it cut through a mix or just add some bite to the sound and that's about it. I'm sure the low frequency process works in a similar manner. It most definitely isn't "bad gear". Maybe you don't have a use for them and would rather boost 6 KHz by 6 or 7 db instead. That's fine but that doesn't make a sonic maximizer a bad piece of gear. You might as well say a compressor is bad gear because you can just push your amp harder and it'll compress. Just push the record fader till it's way into the red and it'll compress all right!
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Exactly. This. Isolated DAW drum tracks makes no sense to do any of this. If that portion of the song were just drum tracks, Eq it and maybe reverb or compression depending on the sound of the drums you wanted (dry or spacious).
They are not an FX processor. Their primary role is a phase/amplitude correction device. You use it before an amplifier to adjust phase and time alignment of higher frequencies arriving to your ears compared to low frequencies etc... to make sure the audio doesn't go muddy because of this. They are okay for mastering on your mix out where phase problems need to be corrected too. I've seen a few in old radio stations used incorrectly, where they screw with FM multiplex signals to make things worse rather than better.
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It’s not an effect . . . . Just a sound reinforcement tool.
That's probably the best use for it. Liked it as a master FX for electronic music, though...
@@AudioPilz as a house and techno head i have this in my amazon cart ready to see if this will make my kustom pa sound better
@@usdjxavi This might work, have fun!
@@AudioPilz Honestly I'm not even sure what the thing does. It sounds like some sort of multi-band limiter, but I can't be sure.
Like rebar... through the eardrums.
Many a-list mixing engineers use this or the plugin version for thumping tom sounds. Its awesome. It has so many sound reinforcement applications in mixing and tracking - but the secret is PARALLEL PROCESSING.
True that, but parallel processing with hardware in a digital environment is always a bit tricky bc of phase issues
@@AudioPilz um ina digital environment you can just move the waveform clip on the timeline into phase or rely on delay compensation (in the case of the plugin) PRINT EVERYTHING!
Parallel processing with something that delays bass frequencies sounds messy.
@@Claidheambmor I don’t know what to tell you. It’s an old trick and been around for a long time.
your editing is G O L D lmfao
also very nice that you make jams to demo stuff and actually record it proper not with camera mic FFFFFFUUUUU-
Thanks!
That bass lick was friggin' sweet.
Thanks!
Maybe you should learn how to use it. It has a sweet spot along with every other piece of gear. It absolutely clears up sound quality if you don't push beyond what is needed.
Thank you for the feedback
I actually used that YEARS ago to biff up my Moog Voyager, since I missed that touch of the filter saturation on the original mini. Mixer Out -> BBE -> Filter In. A nice feedback with more harmonics that really made the Voyager buffier
Good idea!
AudioPilz 🤮💥🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣
RUclips Up Next - Mixing top secret weapons -- BBE Sonic Maximiser
One man's trash...
I don't play in any bands at this point in my life but used to play tech/prog metal. My last set up was a Peavey VB2 all tubed head and a Mesa powerhouse 1000 watt cab with the 15 and 4 10's. It was a beast of a set up but being a five string player, the bass control on the amp was tuned for 60hz if I remember correctly. The highs weren't quite as crisp as I wanted either. Also I bounced back and forth between finger style, slap, and tap. I used a bbe maxxcom to bring out the highs and deeper lows as well as the compression to keep my dynamic levels for level between the style changes. It was a very important piece of my set up. The VB2 and that mesa cab were phenomenal on their own but bbe maxxcom absolutely added that "special sauce" and i constantly got compliments from the other local metal bands about my tone. Now in current times (just started playing/writing/recording again 4 months ago after a 10 year hiatus) I just discovered that plugging into the maxxcom directly and directly into my recording interface is very usable and very easy to sculpt my tone. I was never a pedal guy, always went with a basic set up. These things are pretty cheap nowadays and "obsolete" but I think they are pretty outstanding for how cheap they are on the used market. Are there better options out there? Absolutely. But for the cheap price + very usable results they are pretty hard to beat if you can find one in good working order.
The BBE sonic maximizer along with a lighted power conditioner and Korg DTR-1000 tuner are key rack-fillers for bass players who despise midrange.
I couldn't have put it in more elegant words
lol I had this exact same setup for my guitar mid 2000’s.
the comment that said "it sounds worse in bypass" hahahaha
The only piece of gear that caused me nightmares
@@AudioPilz It's been tested, and bypass colours the sound by removing treble and bass. When you switch it on, it sounds better as you are adding back in what was taken away!! Some guy on YT did a test proving this!
@EscapeMCP I fixed one of these last night and bypass is just bypass lol run it through a guitar effects loop and then unplug it and see what happens
Edit:that is, that test was bs, test one yourself
I don't care what you say I put mine in the fx loop of my amplifier sounds amazing it's like some took a blanket of my cabinet more Clarity like a night and day difference
It works for some
Yeah dude, I had one in a 5150 half cab same way and it was fucking amazing. Really blew me away.
That's the most popular use of them... to clean up a guitar pre-amp.
@@AudioPilz Uh, then by your own words, that would make it useful, not useless..
Dude, so much fun watching you. Thanks a lot.
Thank you, dude!
I used a BBE select maximizer on my PA set up for years, and it gave me so much more about amend, even though I was using 18 inch subwoofers. As a solo LoopingArtist with multiple instruments on stage, I like a big huge sound, not just loud, but big. The BBE help me with that greatly. When I bought a bag and PA system, I didn’t need to use this anymore because they have timeline in their equipment. I now mainly use a QSC K.2 powered system with 10 inch mains, and a single 12 inch subwoofer. The thing sounds huge, sounds amazing! I’m wondering if I should start using a BBE again to give it even more kick.
I have the pedal version. It's the last pedal on my pedal chain before going into my guitar amp. I love it, and leave it on all the time. I have a not so great amp, Fender Blues Jr, and the sonic maximizer removes the muddiness of the amp.
Yeah, it can upgrade some smaller amps
Excellent for live sound reinforcement.I absolutely love it, never leaves my rack.
I really wanted it to work for me, unfortunately, it never really did
I connected it
..out of my Audient into the BBE in...out of BBE and into my amp.
The mix is way more open.
I leave low contour dead centre and push high contour only one click.
Glad I did.
It's twice as clear easily.
It certainly works in certain applications
@@AudioPilz Going for Kush Clariphonic and a Tape saturator
I use this with my bass.
It's lights out.
Turns low end into Godzilla.
Everything in your FACE
I never leave home without it.
Sounds REAL GOOD on the guitar and bass
The nation is divided on this;)
@@AudioPilz I'm okay with that! I actually like a lot of 80s production, maybe that has something to do with it! But I'm glad to have a good demo for it, it's now on my to-get list in terms of studio rack gear. Either way, excellent video :D
I have one in my mixer effects chain and use it a lot with streaming media to bring back some dynamic range and focus. Like any processor, you have to adjust it correctly and remember that it's not a fix for every sonic fault.
A lot of people can bring it to good use. Me, not so much
AudioPilz As a check on circuit design quality on these kinds of devices, I listen for any coloration to the sound when they're set to neutral values (not just bypassed). The BBE is pretty darn neutral.
Agreed. Reading what others are saying, our comments are part of similar theme. When tweaked, along with a little EQ, the BBE works wonders bringing 'life' back into a signal chain.
My big issue with these units is that the bypass isn't true bypass. I used to use them all the time but I didn't like how they colored the signal when I didn't want them to, so I found alternatives
I’ve got a channel of this as a eurorack module and my drum bus just lives through it.
There are quite some uses for it
Well well well now we can tell who has golden ears and who hasn't. The maximizer should be used subtly, mine is on my Voyager to get a more nasally minimoog edge. Bass only on 9 o'clock, process on 1 o'clock. Magic.
There are a lot of people who achieve great results with the BBE, I am just not among them
I used to live in Huntington Beach CA. many, many years ago and, at a stones throw distance from the BBE shop on Bolsa Chica Road at the time. I spoke to a sales rep that explained to me (in not too much detail of course) that the 462 model that I had, provided "Time Alignment" of the different frequencies in the output signal providing a much fuller, pleasing sound as without the alignment different frequencies hit the ear at different times due to delay. I can't testify about all applications but I ran mine between a Mesa/Boogie Quad Preamp and a Marshall 100 watt/ 6L6 Dual Mono Bloc Power amp and it sounded like the voice of doom when I cranked that thing up. Without the BBE there was a definite depletion of tonal bombast. It is purely a matter of application and taste but mine was one of the biggest "More Bang For My Buck" discoveries of my life.
Great to hear that it works for you
The BBE SM is indeed to be used as a final stage in mixing. What the BBE does is correct phase-shifts! In (analog) studio mixing a wide-spectrum sound that passes through a filter undergoes different phase-shifts at different frequencies; this is a result of the filter itself. And the more filters in the signal-path, the more phase-shifts in the final output. Consequently, the sound becomes muddy when not corrected. When music has already been corrected for phase-shifts, the BBE SM has no effect.
I am not an expert on phase correlation in studio and broadcast technology but all the real pros I talked to told me that the BBE sales pitch of the SM is utter BS. The logic of it is inherently flawed, too. But there are indeed some uses for it
very useful when you use this stereo modulation rack effects the guitar players were using back in the 80s
@@AudioPilz Then maybe the product is being marketed wrong and is best used as how the above poster stated-as a *final mixdown*-rather than something for your effects loop chain. (*=cue chords from "the final countdown"*). Maybe it's something that shouldn't commonly be used.
It's true that every time you use a filter such as in EQs, the phase shifts - but the phase shifting doesn't cause any real audible artefact by itself. It will make the signal different, but there's no way to "correct" this difference into a specific phase that would somehow be more "correct".
This makes absolutely no sense.
Your editing is fantastic!
Thank you!
If soundgoodizer was a physical effect
If they would release it now, they would probably call it that way
As an effects processsor I totally agree because it should not be used as an effects processor. It’s a piece of gear you use with your sound system and it’s an awesome piece of gear. Use it correctly.
Thank you for the feedback
MOST HATED?!?! wtf. It's an amazing studio gear, you just need to learn how and when to use it.
Probably just not my cup of tea
If you read the white papers and the patient on the technology..... To put it in a mathematical nut shell.....
What this does is time alignment correction with in the full range signal. This unit should be put at head of the chain, to Pre-align the signal before feeding it to your other master chain processor's/processes.......
If you use this as a vst. I also recommend using it additionally on each input of the mixer... Pre-time align all the inputs...... It pre maximizes the electrical signal feeding into or down the chain...
If your bad at math or can't read white papers, you may not want this...
Have you really read the white papers?
Did you consider to put this maximizer on the kick/drums of the arturia drumbrute? I watched this episode after a lot of others. Seems this machine might fix a lot of flaws of the drum machines you covered.
Those are the two pieces of gear I instantly got rid of, so I can't test it but great idea!
excellent use of quoting The Bed’s Too Big Without You for that bass part
Best Police song!
I’ll tell you what this thing excels at; if you have a small, boxy sounding practice amp you play through, put one of these in front of it, and it does wonders.
I like sonic maxmizer and using it since 2010. Gives more punch and clarity to your guitar sound. After using it one cannot resist it as sound seems so dull without it.
It's kind of addictive
In our PA rack we referred to it as the "auxiliary feedback generator".
That hits the nail on the head!
I started using the 'maximizer' in the late '80s for my live PA setup which was a cheap Peavy unit. Made it sound wonderful. How it works goes back to BBE's research that discovered that the 3 audio ranges we call "lows, mids, and highs" travel at different speeds through the circuitry. Lows are fastest, followed by mids, and highs are slowest. no matter how good your equipment. the lows will always get to the speakers first, then mids, and then highs. The result is slightly muddy sound all the time. The BBE essentially 'time aligns', and corrects the phasing so all frequencies get to the speakers at the same time, giving a much cleaner and fuller sounds. The effect is more or less noticeable considering the source of the signal. It's definitely more effective with recorded music than live, however, its effect on live is nothing short of miraculous in my experience. I've owned about 6 of them, and the only one I ever found unlikeable is the BBE stomp pedal for guitars. The first one, as I said above, was to make a cheap Peavy Table-top mixer/power amp set-up work better. At the time, I was performing a single act in a Reno casino, and was constantly getting volume complaints. I use backing tracks I create myself with MIDI and multi track recording leaving our what I do live which is play guitar and sing. Once I added a BBE using a pre-amp connection out to a power amp connector in, the first thing I noticed was that my sound sucked until I flattened my graphic EQ and set the BBE with lows slightly below center level, and highs at the flat level. A sight high-end 'chirp led me to reducing EQ at the 2K level, which I've done with every system I've owned since then. (The rest of the system stays flat, except in rooms that magnify subsonics. I roll the graphic with a downward curve starting at 60 to 80 HZ. Problem solved.) The result was customers and bosses telling me I sounded much better after I "turned down" when I was actually playing louder, with no feedback at all. I now use an 882i in my studio rack for playback and mixing, and I've added the BBE apps to my Reason MIDI and recording software. The effect is so slight that I often can barely hear it, but the results on my final recordings and live performances are obvious in the compliments I get from customers and bosses.
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I can hear the sound in the intro quite clearly. I had the Maximizer sound in the form of the BBE Sonic Stomp pedal. I couldn't really tell what it was doing exactly, but it was doing SOMETHING and I generally liked the way it sounded, at least when dialed in a certain way (if you cranked it up all the way, it just sounded excessive and overdone). I feel like you can describe all of the Sonic Maximizers in that way. Some people swear by them, but more often than not people claim they are a crutch or that they're too artificial sounding, or something like that. Either they do nothing or they just have "that sound" that nobody wants to hear anymore. It'll be interesting to watch the rest of this video.
Great video. So here's my take: the Sonic Maximizer is definitely something that requires fine adjustment. I feel like when you move the knobs too quickly, it's very easy to go from "meh" to "ugh." When dialed in right, on the right kind of instrument, it can sound pretty decent. However, it does tend to sound kind of artificial and can be noticeable in a mix. At the same time, it essentially provides a bass and high-end boost. Other people have claimed that you're better off just using an EQ, and honestly... it's hard to argue with that. For quick and easy "sonic magic," this might work in some cases. But if you actually want to control your EQ, well, just use an EQ. I'm not convinced that it does anything more than a fancy, black box-style EQ device with extremely limited controls.
Still searching for an application where another tool isn't better suited for than the BBE
It was considered the poor mans pultec in the 90s since it is nothing more than a solid state passive EQ but you have to remember how far out of fashion passive EQ were by the time the BBE was brought to market. No one would have bought it if it was marketed as what it actually is because engineers pay more attention to marketing than actual sound. Pultec, Lang, and other passive EQs were no longer made and commanded a huge price on the used market so the BBE filled that gap with clever marketing for the live market and in studios it was used on Toms, kick and bass to achieve that 90s polished sound. Blackbird studios has 2 of these in every room for drums. So when a pultec in the late 80s early 90s with rust on the inside and missing knobs would cost you around $5000 the BBE would give you a similar outcome for $100 so everybody had them. But passive EQs are misunderstood. I personally preferred the Aphex Aural Exciter and big bottom boxes over passive EQs like the BBE since I had more control over the frequency instead of a one size fits all smiley face EQ. But like all things some people liked them, some hated them ,and those that hated it made the BBE a meme when the internet began to take off!! LOL Cheers!
Cheers!!!
Great Video thanks. I watched because its on my wantlist. But at 200 euros...I dunno if I like it for that price after hearing it one the drum loop...I do have a question, could you tell me what is the grey/sliver controller with the sliders and knobs your using to mix the Techno track around the 4min mark? Thanks dude!
Thanks! Evolution UC-33 - great controller but unfortunately discontinued
@@AudioPilz Thanks dude!
Ironically, sounded great with the bass guitar when you pushed that low end
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They are great for bass guitar from my experience. Just posted a comment about my history with these units
Had a 422a years ago. Works great for live applications. For recording (during the tape days), either use a little bit or none at all. Once I started going DAW, it became obsolete though.
That one really gave me nightmares😬
The module is primarily used for live sound.
I have used it once or twice in the studio; in the master chain like you said.
Most live sound setups have gone digital. Haven't seen one in quite some time...
@@AudioPilz Dante is crazy still trying to figure out digico
I had one of these. I owned a cassette-based 4 track recorder from Akai as my multi track recorder and the BBE made everything less muddy.
I really wanted it to work for me
I've been known to use the plugin version on my master bus for a hint of top end polish, but for the bottom end there's better processors out there. Waves Maxxbass comes to mind.
There are a lot of people who get top notch results with the sonic maximizers but they never worked for me
The clip lights stopped working on my 482i. It still works the clip lights just won't. Any suggestions?
Clip it?😉
Loving it. I had the BBE Sonic plugin, and sold it back in the day because, like you, I too wasn't quite sure what it was doing. It sounded nice, but turning everything up usually does. At least for instant gratification. It's still available, and rather pricey it is too, but I've never really reconsidered it. I wonder what you think of the Aphex Aural Exciter. It's been reborn as a plugin as well, courtesy of Waves.
Always preferred the Aphex stuff (but haven't used it for decades)
I have an 882i and I swear by it. I exclusively use it if I'm having music playback from a laptop. It helps "lift the mud" from the signal. That's pretty much all I use it for. I can't say I've ever used my 362 or 882 for individual instrument signal paths. It's a one trick pony in that sense, but I feel like it does that one trick really well.
I had one on in my fx loop for almost 10 years. Most of that time it was the only “effect” i used. Not sure why people hate it. I called it my “sound good” button. Every time i showed people what it sounded like, i would convince other people to get one. My local shop loved me for that. I suggest keeping both knobs below noon as a guitarist
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I agree. They are a pretty good piece to add that extra 5-10% of refinement to a live instrument set up (bass player here). The trick is to just not get too carried away with the settings. Like I said, that extra 5-10% of goodness 🙂🤘
I use the plugin version on my mix bus. Very subtle settings on the low and high contour. It does something to the sound that isnt achieved to my satisfaction when just using an EQ. It gives a unique presence and sheen to the overall mix that is tasteful when used in moderation.
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"exploit the generous return policy of a big European music store" was the one that killed me.
Yeah. Guitar guys love these things. Useful for mixing too like you suggested.
Don't tell them;)
As a former guitar guy, I admit that I used one of these in my rig both for live performance and for recording. I used a 4-speaker cab driven by a Peavy 100W head, and had an outboard FX loop consisting of the BBE, a chorus foot pedal that hummed like crazy, and a mono digital delay pedal. BBE was always on, and I used it to (at least to my ear) add some clarity and "shimmer" to my tone. It smoothed out big chords a bit, and gave me a little more even sustain, but I'll admit that the effect was subtle. Drummer and I had a nearly-heated discussion about it once because he thought it looked trashy sitting there, loose on top of my cab, and he couldn't hear the difference.
Not making a drummer joke/jab because he was straight up the best drummer I ever knew, and I value his opinion. I just won the argument in the end and kept my ratty, piece-of-shit rig the way it was. :D
@audiopilz Hello Mate, any chance you have tried this on the Aux FX Bus as a Mixx Effect, curious to apply for Techno. Thanks
As long as you stay in the analog realm there should not be any problems. If you have digital stuff going on, be aware of the latency
it is meant to be used subtly. Back in the day, I used it to get an idea of where I wanted to go with the graphic Equalizer during final mixes. Sometimes the BBE (used subtly) would suffice. But, usually it simply gave me a quick reference for what I needed to do with other outboard gear, Or to give me an idea of what a track would sound like if pushed a little in a bass influenced car stereo setup. I'd jam with the BBE for a bit, then take a 30 minute break before routing it out of the mix so I could fine tune the results of the BBE with other gear.
Sorry - I loved this thing. I really did.
I really wanted to like it but I didn't find real use for it
@@AudioPilz I was considering buying one before I watched your video. Thanks for reminding me of how I actually used it 20+ years ago. Saved me some money, you did. 😁
They were great back in the cassette days when you were sending your 4 track to a cassette tape you sent it thru this and used it like a master buss eq like a mastering tool …
Cassette copies are one of the rare cases where I really liked these. Still prefered Aphex stuff for that
Sounds awesome on overdriven guitar. Really brings out the overtones. I still have a BBE Stinger guitar pedal from the 80s. I also have the newer pedal. I prefer the early one with the green LED.
Dude I used the pedal to tighten up my tone for performance. It was always awesome for me. Its gotta be used correctly thats all.
I tried the best I could but sometimes I just can't make it work...
@@AudioPilz to be fair I used it on a heavily overdriven tone through a 4x12 and an orange head(thru the send). There was a lot of low end already so it helped clear and tighten that range.
@@MBEG89 My personal experience is, that I like the tone on whatever I do (play guitar/bass, producing electronic music) while doing it but it does not hold up in the mixing/mastering process
@@AudioPilz It's a dynamic signal processor, it works best as a mixing or mastering tool. If you've still got it, try inserting it in a hifi system, between the cd player and the amp. It's the easiest way to hear what it does.
Never seen the application of the sonic maximizer for mixing.... I picked one up for my pedal board for around $40 USD and I find it super useful for getting more dynamics out of my amp at quite volume. I love it and its an always on for me.
Have you tried a Klon Clone as an always on?
@@AudioPilz
Yup, I run a few always on's including a tech 21 plexi amp and a keeley compresssor. Even before I had those two pedals I found the BBE just added more to my amp. Punched it up for an in room presence. Its just another layer.
This processor helps me hear the notes of the bass more clearly in a mix. That makes me think that it's boosting the even-order harmonics of the fundamental somehow, something a regular EQ won't do. Have you ever listened to music on an average car stereo and noticed that on many songs you can mostly feel the bass and not clearly hear the notes? That's always bothered me. So I have to respectfully differ with you on this - it's something I'd be tempted to put on the bass quite often. These videos are a great source of discussion!
I appreciate your cultured approach! Thanks!
Apparently it's some sort of frequency delay effect, if I remember correctly it delays the higher frequencies to match the speed of the low end. I heard it on a bass rig once and it added SO much clarity!
Dude, I laughed a lot during this video. You're a funny guy. Actually the Techno bit convinced me to buy one - thanks!!!
Thanks!
A sound crew I know uses one. I can say that works for techno shows at least
This is the application I would recommend it for
Isn't this the same as a parametric equalizer with high and low gain adjustments? Which is better?
It does strange stuff to the phase of the signal, so its effect is different to that of an EQ
You got me again, I own one of these too. I only have one use for it now, that's when I want to put a big smiley face on the signal. I use it with my record, cassette, CD and MiniDisc players. It boost the signal a little bit so it's good for low level recordings. I spoke to my local FOH engineer years ago about Sonic Maximizer and he told they only use it for the CD player music during an interlude.
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It does sound great with the techno jam! Oof, now I kind of want it.
Yeah, that's where it shines!
Frequencies, Low's&Highs Come off The Speaker at a slightly different Times
One way to Use The Maximizer Is to Correct this (subject to the listeners Ear)
It Works Great in a "Guitar chain of effects". Mine also Makes it sound like I have
Removed a Blanket from in front of the amp, much Clearer
We discussed the marketing claim of BBE and no one with expertise in acoustics and electronics could make any sense out of that
@@AudioPilz what's so hard to understand about that? Those "experts" should have understood that.
It’s kinda like a treble booster, and also gives you more definition if you’re using a lot of modulation effects
There is still a very emotional debate going on what it actually is ;)
By itself it is terrible though, and I made the mistake of buying the pedal version (sonic stomp). Literally could never imagine dropping the full MSRB price
Dude, if you use this on kick or snare, your mixes are magic. What it did to my guitar tone was also complete magic. Anyone who gets past the weird hate videos and learns subtlety, will know that it is a valuable tool. Mixing is a competitive game of inches. This puts certain elements of your mix into a different realm that separates you from “the masses”. Just my opinion. Great piece of gear. Good luck. I like your vids!!!
Thanks for posting!!!
Best piece of gear I've used in a band ever
I'm older. When these units first came out, they were to enhance the final output stage in-between the pre-amp and the speaker. That works. They were not for recording. People started to get ideas. Hence all kinds of uses and revisions
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The internet needs this :-)
...and it needs people like you, too!
I have built a few Sonic Stomp clone pedals and can tell you exactly what it does.. it boosts at 20 hz and 9000hz. I recently made one that has switchable high and low settings from 20 to 80hz and 5000 to 9000 hz. It does nothing involving phase alignment as BBE advertised. When used properly in a guitar rig it's amazing
Thank you for the heads up!
Its not an effect and its not unknown what it is going in inside of it. It is for aligning microphone phase/dull audio/speakers phase correction. If you know anything about microphones and speakers then you'll know that when they are out of phase they don't sound full. This boosts it to make it sound full. If you are already using good audio then there is no reason to boost it. The only reason people hate it is because those people don't know how to use it.
Thanks for the feedback
@@AudioPilz though I still find the video funny
I just had this conversation a few days ago. The problem is most people have no idea what it's doing so they don't know how to use it. It's NOT AN EQUALIZER!!!! Hope I didn't hurt your ears. I ran that sentence through my sonic maximizer for emphasis. What it does is shift the low frequencies so that they align with the upper frequencies. Generally, especially in live environments, the lower sounds arrive at a different time than the upper frequencies. So it shifts their phase a little to tighten up the sound. But it's not a bass boost. As I said, it's not an equalizer! The process knob actually manufactures some overtones so as to alter the timbre and make it sound brighter. Remember, an equalizer can only boost what's there. But if higher frequencies don't exist, then you can boost all you want. What this does is actually create new overtones. It's an amazing piece of gear but not in the hands of a goober. Don't be a goober. Chicks don't dig goobers.
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LOL!
awesome channel - thank you
Thank you so much!
The Max is an amazing piece of kit, I’ve been using one on studio recordings for years...
It works for a lot of people (unfortunately not me)
I've got an Aphex one I can see from here that hasn't been used in twenty years. It has more controls than the BBE but here's my question -- both are two-track units. Who uses this effect on more than one instrument on a track? What happens if you run a signal through both tracks? I'm scared to find out.
They were used quite a bit for tape restauration
It's a tool like any other audio processor. Useful for some and not for others.
Agreed!
Its a live sound rack, even the reps for BBE used to snicker to me about their stomp box version. just not what it was originally invented for at all.
Yeah, but how would guitar players NOT use an effect that's called sonic maximizer ;)
@@AudioPilz impossible! clearly it puts at least an inch.. Maybe even an inch and half on your.. Playing. 😂
So my background is varied, but among other things, i am an electrical engineer, and a hobby speaker designer. I might be the worst electrical engineer in the world (actually, no, i have seen worse, it's scary), but i studied the fundamentals of signal processing, and while i didn't make any worthwhile speakers, i did study a lot of material to learn to understand how existing designs work and learned to appreciate them more for their accomplishments. That's just a small selection of things i have been failing at, it's actually a very very long list.
Anyway so what do we know about the thing? Well it's made with inexpensive, primitive analogue technology. It's not exactly big and complex. The markeiting blurb. Let me pick it apart piece by piece. "... resto the na..." - nah, i don't care, and you're processing, so whatever you're doing, it's not natural, but that's OK, we're making art here. "adjusts the phase relationship between low, mid and high frequencies by adding progressively longer delay times to lower frequencies" - hey, that's easy! That's called an allpass filter. A textbook or Wikipedia will throw a number of simple ways to make one at you. So yeah i believe that. "creating a mirror curve to neutralise the effect of loudspeaker phase disto" YOU BLOODY WHAT. Nah nah nah nah. Well some people claim that "all speakers are different, so how do you compensate that" - that's... only kinda true, there are a number of pervasive design traits and engineering constraints that result in vast similarities across the board. First off, look at your speakers. Whether they be studio monitors, or HiFi speakers, look at the membranes that radiate the sound and consider their distance to your ear. The woofer radiating area is usually recessed, it's further away from you, and it means the lower frequency sound reaches you with a delay. The cause of this trait is probably aesthetic, for some reason people don't want slanted front speakers which look like they're firing towards the ceiling, even when the neutral axis is designed to be horizontal and the up-firing is purely visual and is not actually what's happening. I don't know why, i guess people can't be reasoned with. Nor do they seem to want speakers that have a tweeter placed below the woofer, since that would look upside downish - except in MTM floorstanders, which actually usually work like that, and the bottom midbass driver is usually not part of the picture, except in true d'Appolito, which is rare. Staggered steps also haven't caught on, because diffraction, plus aesthetics. The second trait is that there is a strong resonant behaviour in the bass, where when the transient front comes, at first nothing happens, then it slowly starts vibrating over a few cycles, and then when you stop the sound, it keeps vibrating for a few cycles more. The speaker is not a piston connected to electrical input by some phase-distorting magic, but a damped mass-spring system, who would have thought! Crazy, right? And most of the range is actually well damped, with a few stray resonances here and there, but the bass exhibits the most resonant behaviour. So what the BBE are doing here, it's actually reinforcing the speaker's phase distortion rather than compensating it! Furthermore all the EQs that preceded it also likely added phase and time domain distortion of the same general character.
And by all reason, that's probably not too bad. Speaker design guidelines based on what is so far known seem to so far indicate that phase distortion in the speaker is mostly alright, as long as it doesn't have strong local anomalies, but there is a different rather than necessarily perceptive reason for why they matter, it has to do with shaping the neutral axis and the cancellation poles around the crossover. To BBE's partial credit, there is a mechanism for phase also developing the other way, that the sound, before being radiated, has to propagate from the coil in the middle of the membrane across the surface of the membrane, and encounters some resistance and frequency dependent amplitude loss towards the edges, such that bass is radiated with the whole area of a given speaker driver, while higher frequency sound perhaps more from the pole dustcap and a bit of area around it, so the apparent listener source distance for the higher frequency sound is slightly larger, but i have not seen this effect affect the phase plots strongly at all, it's tiny.
The phase just runs circles into negative as frequency goes up either way.
Furthermore if they tried to actually compensate speaker phase distortion in analogue domain, well you just can't do that very well. Consider, with every step of a filter, you can delay the signal by a portion of a cycle. But a cycle at low frequencies lasts much longer, so unless you want to have dozens of fiter stages and associated noise, you can easily delay the bass by a significant time, but you can't delay the treble much. There is a way to accomplish high treble delay in time-discrete analogue domain, that's with a bucket brigade device, but availability is a problem, price is a problem ($150 retail rack device = $80 marketing and retail overhead, then consider the metal chassis, power, PCBs, jelly bean components and the assembly, costs of maintaining a business - no room for expensive chips), and quality is a problem too. Time-discrete value-analogue design is so far away from classic analogue and towards being time- and value-discrete, i.e. digital, that you might as well give up and go digital there, and it'll just be cleaner and cheaper.
So one would have to conclude that the purpose of the allpass has nothing to do with the speaker phase distortion, but potentially with amplitude linearity or transient behaviour. I have experimented with allpass, and i heard the difference... on a really strained and unhappy power amp. I deemed an allpass to be an improvement, less distorted on transients, on pulse wave heavy chiptunes. Why? I don't know, i didn't have the ability to measure and characterise the problem and effect at the time. I don't even know whether the effect was real or imagined. If one were to assume it was real for a second... Maybe slew rate. Which should theoretically be "not a problem" but IDK when a misbehaving oscillating or badly cooled amp doesn't perform up to spec, all bets are off, and maybe just deliberately smearing a sharp transient just brings you past that problem. Maybe misbehaviour is the name of the game in guitar amps for all i know, they are after all musical instruments and not reproduction devices. I'm really just spitballing at this point, i don't know. Also to be kept in mind, the allpass is by all reason fixed, it's not at all affected by the knobs on the front, for a variety of reasons.
Also it's interesting that this is the only clearly and more or less unambiguously described function of the device.
Oh but we're not finished with the blurb. "augments higher and lower frequencies as loudspeakers tend to be less efficient in their extreme treble and bass ranges"... i... kinda object about higher frequencies, but then that's my modern HiFi/studio monitor perspective, not 1979 perspective, and not guitar amp or PA perspective. We also have an efficiency maximum in the bass, but it sits usually in the meat of the bass, below it falls off somewhat fierce, so you sure can compensate there. I find the careful formulation interesting "without causing fatigue that is often associated with exciter effects, psychoacoustic processor, or excessive use of equalisers". If one were to pick this apart, this looks like an implication that this is not an exciter effect (i.e. octave upshifter), nor a psychoacoustic processor, nor an... excessive equaliser. So - potentially a mild equaliser? An equaliser that just caresses the very edges of the spectrum, as opposed to normal equalisers that work the meat of it? What if the right way to use it is to not listen for an obvious effect and then try to tame and arrive at something palatable, but to turn it up from zero until the difference in direct comparison against bypass is barely audible, and then dance around that value a bit. Then again maybe the right way is not to use it.
I have also seen a claim that it's dynamics dependent equaliser, i.e. a variant of multiband compressor of some kind. I can't evaluate this statement for truthfulness, but at least it doesn't contradict the official blurb.
I've got nothing to add...
Jetzt musst fast den Leiwandizer mkII auch reviewen! :D Wie immer, super video!
Danke! Der Leiwandizer ist halt international schwer kommunizieren... Awesomizer?
I used to own this in a pedal form, together with the Aphex bass exciter. Sold the BBE as the Aphex was more responsive, did wonders at the low end of my Chapman Stick, without getting louder. It was like my amp had a pillow in front of the speaker, before switching these on.
Always preferred the Aphex stuff, too...
I have used it in my live sound rigs and on all floor monitor mixes. we EQ out the monitors then turn on the BBE. many different Name brand speakers used every show I do the musicians compliment the floor monitors. easy to listen too. and when an rock drummer says TURN IT DOWN. boy what a since of pride. BBE are also very useful in the studio
Nice technique!
My experience was that this is best used on the main out of a live rig. Preferably when you're playing in a large room.
A lot of people like it to tighten up the bass response. I have to admit that it never worked for me
Got one for $20. Didn't know what it was. Plugged in an 808. Have been disoriented ever since.
It could have permanently damaged your hearing ;)
We had one of these in our rack. We only used it when someone brought in a cassette for playback between sets. We affectionately referred to it as the Sonic Sodomizer.
Good one!😅
Exactly it's really not that great for an individual instrument.. mastering live seems to be more interesting.. but i bought mine to see it as an effect and I've found that in some of my testing that while something coming out of your speakers live with it can sound actually pretty vibrant.. if you try to RECORD that sound back into a DAW, it loses the magic.. i'm recording on a MOTU 2408 at 48khz so maybe this is why. I just got a profire 2626 I want to A/B test against the 2408 and this is one of the tests i'll try.. it feels like what gets captured and played back gets turned into a phasey sound that I couldn't hear when it was played live.. so it may never be suitable for recording.. but great for live.
Yeah it made minor difference to my guitar amp.
But my analogue mixes were far far better with it on.
I would leave it almost flat.
Hi tone on about 12:15
If you think you hear it live and then it seems different recorded, that is a psychosomatic perception you are having while playing it live. It has not changed once recorded, I am quite certain. It is most likely that it is the way you perceive it that has changed.
@@inthefade i don't know, possibly.. or something in the mp3 process.. because yes when i hear it live it's in the studio.. but when i'm in my car listening to the recorded / compressed version it loses something. so yea maybe that's it.
Recording through it has no effect unless you're recording mic'ed speakers.
@@vorpalblades well it has some effect.. but the issue is that the effect isn't all that good in a final mix from what i've experimented with. i can hear a difference.
Good Lord, you have it cranked WAAAAAYYY TO HIGH!
Thanks for the feedback!
Yeah, it's a pretty poor and amateur review if we're honest.
loving the the dry humor
Thanks!
Exactly my trick not to get rejected at Berghain!
Lol
Nice woof bro! 🧨
Woof woof!!! THX!
I used to use the plugin version but only a tiny, tiny amount - dance kicks and snares mainly, but occasionally on some lead synths. It's not really the kind of thing to use as a staple in mixing, more of a "tool" in a huge arsenal that hardly gets touched for most things. Although, for live DJing you can get dance music to sound REALLLLY punchy. Nice rounded bass in live situations that doesn't sound like you've just pushed up 60Hz on an EQ. There's definitely some non-linear dynamics magic going on inside the unit.
I'd say with modern tools at our disposal, it has become quite useless for most things. Now we can be ultra-surgical to the point where we load up hundreds of plugins in a project. But it still has some uses. Probably why it's not selling for too much money. It is quite redundant in most situations, but still has its place in niche applications where you can't get _"that sound"_ any other way.
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I find I'd get a better sound if I used crocodile clips to pass signal through a metal bin lid
I have to try that!
It's a very very subtle boost effect. Listen to Anthrax's Stomp 442 album, the rythm (distorted) guitars are full with it. It boosts with a different color, punches. But if you abuse it, it messes / flushes horribly. You have to put the right dose.
I love it with Marshall amps, works like no other boost effect. But does not work with any amps as well. And it can add some noises too... .
Yeah, that's what people tend to say about it. Maybe I've become a bit deaf but subtle settings never really made a difference for me
4:40 "The Bed's Too Big Without You" by the Police.
used one in my vehicle for my car audio system after my buddy dj'd with one all the time. The things add aggressive bass and serve a good purpose. If you like HIP hop, rap, R&B and love those bangers that are known for "booty busting" twerk songs. This is a tool in your arsenal for the DJ night life and the guy that wants to give that extra bass to your car audio system.
You make awesome skits dude you should have your own tv show
Thank you!!!
The AKAI Timbre Wolf. I own it, and like it, but I am an exception.
Damn, I would like to TRY it. None of them around in my country😭
AudioPilz They are beginning to vanish here. It is limited, especially compared to the Minibrute. But the build quality is superlative, and it does a few things that are very unique. I really like the character of the sequencer. It is robotic snd completely unorganic. This is how I want a sequence to sound. If I want natural, I will use the keyboard. The poly mode does things I cannot duplicate with anything else. People hated it, but the truth is, they did not get it.
I'm interested in this and I was reading the comments.... sounds like it's as divisive as a Juno 106. How about a Juno 106 running through a BBE Maximizer?
I would say: poor Juno (you can guess what the others would say;)