Do you run an independent game store or have any insight into it? interested in hearing your feedback/experience. ✔️Article link @bit.ly/2u1RAyc ✔️Support the podcast @ patreon.com/cupodcast ✔️More #CUPodcast vids: bit.ly/1pOBDVH ✔️Follow on twitter @ twitter.com/patthenespunk & twitter.com/pxlsicle
I think this is my favorite video from the CU Podcast. This isn't just happening to independent game stores but independent stores of all types. My family runs a pet store which they've been running since 1975 and we see the same thing. Fighting with chains and shitty distributors is an everyday thing. I had a friend who managed hobby store (board games, Magic, Yugioh, Tabletop) and he saw the same issues.
Pat the NES Punk I love independent game stores but I just can't bring myself to spend money at them. Gaming can be an expensive hobby. Brick-and-mortar will always be more expensive than an eBay shop. Maybe when I have a lot more disposable income. The local independent game store by me moved a couple years ago, to a location hours away. Now it's just GameStop and the other big chains.
doctorx0079 eBay is precisely what keeps the prices down. Competition is fierce, both between eBay sellers and between other vendors. You'll practically always find the lowest price there for a given item. In fact, that's why it's so hard for small shops. Why pay a premium when you can order it online for significantly cheaper? I see independent and retro stores as places where I would go (if I could) to not look for anything in particular, and to just look around until something piques my interest.
i would think brink & mortar would be lower. I usually order online for convenience, but couldn't you go into the local shop and ask them to price match with a 15% discount taking into account the ebay fees and paypal fees? i guess this would make more sense for used games than new games.
I've been a manager at an independent game store for nearly 4 years now. And all this is true. Every year gets harder and harder to keep the doors open. I love the game store where i work, it's my second home. I'd hate to see it go. But I can see stores like mine not existing 5 to 6 years from now. It sucks because stores like this need to exist. A place where you can buy a game from a friendly person who you can have a brief conversation with about a hobby you love so much, instead of a person who has to constantly try to sell you a magazine subscription or something else you really don't need. That, or someone who really doesn't know or care about video games. Working at an independent game store has been amazing, I'd hate to see that magic go away. If you have a chance to work at an independent game store, even if it's for a short amount of time, I say take that chance. It would be quite the experience to have in life.
Gamestop isn't going to last a whole lot longer either. Why deal with the hassle of employees pushing subscriptions or screwing you on resells when you can go through Amazon, Ebay or Craigslist? Hopefully the retro stores weather this and are able to make a comeback. There is a fair amount of interest in those older games and systems. I'd rather play old school Nintendo games than 90% of the current Nintendo stuff. Too much focus on the console war and not enough on quality games.
^ Hey I know this dude. H1 Gill :) Yeah, Amazon really is eating everyone for lunch. Even the warehouse where I work selling (mostly) women's clothing is threatened by Amazon. Now shipping companies like UPS and FedEx might have to worry about Amazon coming in and replacing them as Amazon starts up its own shipping services to completely with FedEx SmartPost and UPS SurePost. I honestly don't know if the warehouse I work at will be around in 10 years because of Amazon. Amazon announced that they were going to start up a competitor to Blue Apron, and now Blue Apron's stocks are in the shitter. If I continue to work in warehousing, I think I'll have to seriously look into relocating and working for Amazon if this keeps up. Amazon is using similar tactics that made Walmart successful, focusing on high product turns to make money, instead of a flat 30% profit margin for items that most businesses would target. The difference is that Amazon has made it fast and convenient to get those items to your door, but price wise they really aren't much different than anyone else. Let's say I want to build a computer from parts. I can't get the deep discounts by going on a site like pricewatch.com like I would have in 2002, because that site is a shell of its former self. I used to be able to pick parts from a bunch of different places to get a great deal! Now Amazon will only price you based on the warehouses it mostly can get an item to you in with the cheapest 2-day shipping window. I always get items from close to my home and rarely from places out of the state of PA where I live (sometimes New Jersey). You have no options on Amazon to see a REAL full list of vendors from across all of Amazon's DC's in the US and REALLY find the best price, because that would make it so Amazon loses more on shipping cost.
Some of the best content I've heard on this podcast. Great stuff. I cannot believe the wholesale price of new games is over $50. That is just ridiculous.
Yeah it's weird. When I worked at Best Buy we got an employee discount on most things which was cost the company paid plus like 10 percent or something but games we only got like $5 off and they said that it was actually the right price compared to what they paid for it. Guess it was true. Also the part about they make most money on accessories...
This is Kevin of Game On that was in the article. I'm surprised that they interviewed me for the article back in January. Just glad that others got to see my side of the story on how I got my start. Not sure why they decided to use the photo of the storage that I use for excess storage, but I want to let everyone know that is not the actual inside of the store. I use what I can for room, but that shop in general is not one huge mess. lol Also for those wondering, they only interviewed stores that aren't retail chains, and only interviewed those that have one physical location open. That's why places like Luna or Game Bros were not in this.
Love Ian's insight. I have the honor of only living about 30 minutes from the shop in Fenton, MO included in this article. The guys there are great and truly care about retro gaming. I try to get out there as often as I can as they are far and away the best shop in the St. Louis area.
I'm the owner of 2 Gamestores in Puerto Rico, we have been running since 2000, reacently gamestop closed all their stores in Puerto Rico, and we have gotten much more costumers in that see our stores as 'NEW" because before we where hidden under the gamestop shadow. We've been in business 17 years because we do NOT sell new games, there's never been a need for us to sell those because we do well with used games and because we've always specialized in retro games. Costumers don't understand the costs involved running a store, they also think we HAVE to give them a discount or sell them games and accesories for less than they sell for in walmart or best buy because we are a small store. anyways Loved this podcast, I agree completely with the article. Thanks for your podcasts. - Jerry Robles - Neo Japan Games.
Thanks for the vid. Very informative. One of the best things I ever did with my life was NOT buying a comic book store twenty years ago when I had the chance.
There's an independent video game store nearly two blocks away from my apartment. They also carry DVDs and started carrying board games alongside the usual classic and modern video game consoles.
Great video guys. I'd love to hear a longer discussion between you both about whether or not game collecting will continue beyond the earlier consoles to the next generations.
There's three retro stores 15 minutes apart an hour away from me. All opened up around the same time frame. Can't imagine all 3 staying afloat at the same time
Great episode guys. A lot of good information. There is so much nostalgia for me to go to an independent game store. I don't mind paying more than I would on amazon for a lot of the reasons you guys hit on
They opened a retro game store in my town which made me happy, but they decided to do it in the mall and a loose copy of Bil Walsh Football for the Genesis costs $15
We opened a game store on February in a small town in Florida. So far we're doing ok but definitely sales needs to pickup. Summer time blues started a couple weeks ago but we expect sales to pickup in the fall. Nintendo cartridge games are still be big sellers for us. We stay away from new sealed games but have a small selection of Xbox One and PS4 games.
I've only ever been to two independent stores that were purely video game related. The majority of shops I visit diversify themselves with board gaming, vintage toys and or comic books.
Very VERY late reply but... My local retro store also does cellphone and laptop repair, for the last 3 years everytime I go in there it is PACKED and probably 80% of the people there are getting their laptops or cellphones repaired. I think the retro games probably help get sooo Many customers because I do always see new customers talking about "whoa! They have the old Mario's and nintendos!? This place is cool!"
Can agree. In my hometown theres one game store thats been around for over a decade and about ten minutes away in one of the largest malls in America is another game store thats constantly being sold and downsized and probably won't last.
This was hands down the most interesting segment of the podcast to date. Not the most entertaining I'd say, but definitely the most interesting and the most engrossing
Could you imagine if owning a locally game store was actually simpler than what it actually is. The amount of nerds that would be content with their lives would be so wholesome, and I mean that with good intentions.
I do service work for a living. What Ian is saying is spot on. Those bigger companies, pretty much tell you what they are going to pay, regardless of what you normally charge. My normal service rate could be $100 a hour and a part could be $100, those bigger places will pretty much tell you they will pay $70 a hour and $85 for that part. I didn't realize the profit margins were so small on those games though. I guess I never really related my experiences to our trades.
Marc Baker I live overseas now. Actual game stores are hard to find, and when you do, every new game is more than what you would pay in America. And there's pretty much zero used game stores anywhere overseas unless you go to a major city with over a million people. You have no idea how much I miss GameStop. I didn't appreciate it much before, but when I go back to America once a year, walking in GameStop is like heaven. Gamers overseas are all super jealous of Americans since they can go to GameStop and get lots of used games for more than half than what they are paying.
Okay, I understand how you miss Gamestop when you go to other countries, but they have a shit ton of problems that keep me away from them. They're constantly shoving 'pre-orders' up my face, they're 'propaganda' programing sucks ass, the games are never in good shape most of the time, they never sell 'new' copies, they give you pennies for trade ins, and then jack up the price, I just hate that place! If Gamestop would change their ways, Maybe I would shop there again.
Ian is right. At Luna, they can't be willing to haggle on prices, which I totally understand but they do have a good amount of great prices for different games.
I dunno Pat, the store I work at, we used to have a piddly PS1 and PS2 section. Now we've got full showcases of both of them taking up about 20% of the store and we get people buying/asking for PS2 consoles and even PS1 consoles at least 5 times a day - and that's a low estimate. I've sold people PS3s just to play PS1 games just because it's so hard to keep PS1 and PS2 consoles in stock. Granted, I don't know how much of that is due to the popularity of the Crash Bandicoot re-releases, I kinda feel like that reminded people that there's games on the old PlayStation consoles, but it has been kinda ridiculous how much activity the PS1/PS2 sections have been getting these past two or three weeks.
A retro game store opened like a year or two ago in my town and they are doing great. Before them I dont remember ever even seeing a retro game store in person, they picked a great location to start. I think they started it after they got out of college, or something like that.
These are the reasons we closed our doors for good. I loved the business, but profits dropped to nothing compared to what they were. I will miss it every day for the rest of my life. I wish you all the best of luck and hope you beat the 5 to 10 year brick and mortar prediction.
Wish me the best of luck i am thinking of opening a game store. I would start off in the flea market while i keep my full time job. Hopefully get my own store one day!
People do not understand the cost of doing business. Essentially, if you are a business owner in today's day and age, you are a greedy scumbag in the eyes of the consumer. All the taxes and regulations levied against those big corporations is not only circumvented by those corporations, but any increase in cost incurred is directly handed down to small businesses like Luna and consumers. Not only that but most successful small businesses also get lumped into those taxes and regulations and without a multi million dollar lobbying group and team of lawyers, they typically face rising costs from having to actually ABIDE by those rules. It's sickening really.
Absolutely, along with imposed term limits. No more career politicians. That way the government might actually reflect what the PEOPLE want, not what a bunch of suits with duffle bags full of cash want.
Fuck using just Amazon or eBay as your sole source for retro video games. Obviously get ones you can't find, there. But I love going to my local shop browsing, popping in, grabbing a game randomly. I can just grab a game right then, bam it's in my hands. No shipping back and forth, esp for returns. I may see the same game fifteen times and some Saturday I want it. Talk about nostalgia, I get to go to the store and buy a "new" game whenever I want, and play it that night. I love that.
Holy! Great discussion, dudes! Things got heavy towards the last 5 minutes. I gotta say, and I am not being a fan boy or anything, but for retro gaming stores, I only go to Luna Video Games. Even before I heard about this podcast. I have been going since 2008 after watching a commercial about Luna super late one night. Haha. Once again, great content, Pat and Ian!
It's the same in my country, wholesalers take the profit now, they probably get the games at the same or almost the same price as they got them in the past, but they are adding a much bigger profitmargin, so it's the middleman, who gets most of the profit.
PriereMK2 I'm in the greater Houston area and we have seen our share of retro game stores closing stores like GameBros. & Game Over might be able to hold out but the craze has definitely slowed
They have a great selection, but I fear they might close down, I've seen 2 retro stores close in first colony. They do get a little pricey, $35 dollars for super Mario world (seccond edition cart print) is way too much, but I do understand that they have to make a profit and that they are in a mall so rent is high. But I will still buy my share to support them. Hopefully they stay
In the Cleveland area one retro game store went under and it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy . . . However, we have our own version of LUNA here called The Exchange. They have branched out into action figures / marvel legends / funko / retro toys, they have been around shoot for almost 40 years now. I think the market is about to bottom out soon. The vast majority of the games I post for sale on any online forum there are maybe 5 scalpers / resellers to 1 serious buyer. Seems like very few new collectors are coming in to the hobby at this point, at least in my area. Plus not to mention the amount of bootleg cartridges that have flooded the market recently which lowers confidence. Contra has come back to a realistic price of around 25.00 - 30.00 as opposed to the 40 - 45 it was fetching at the peak of the market.
Awsome interview. I've loved Luna video gAmes for a long time and have bought systems and games there with no problems at all and the prices are better than the other old school video game stores. I have had a few friends ask me about old games and I always suggest Luna video games since we live about 30 min away. Everyone I recommend to Luna is always happy and all the systems still work to this day and many were purchased 7 or more years ago
Actually, I've found numerous stores that allowed me, a random guy, to purchase trading cards, figurines, collector items, and even video games. I just wound up having to purchase a lot of the same thing. Like, for $500 I managed 3 large boxes of trading cards totaling over $4500 total sales at the time. I still have quite a few of those unopened booster boxes which are selling surprisingly well for twice the price from 3 or 4 years ago. One thing I do realize is you have to purchase the same product if you are a regular joe looking to score. I wouldn't have bought 3 boxes like that if you could just purchase collectively and not have to purchase a hundred copies of the same item. For retro video games, I try to purchase low and sell under or at market value. I only do convention swapmeets too to keep my overhead very low. I challenge others to find a like-product condition at that price online. Then again, I'm more of a maverick (I guess you call me?) in terms of how I do things. I'm also very patient and do this in my free time, spending very little as it is for a decent turnout 2 to 3 times a year. I don't own a shop and I don't mind paying market price or a little above if it means I can add it to my normal collection of games or even systems. I've been working with a fellow con-goer too as I've sold him games like Tales of Destiny I & II and Fire Emblem Path of Radiance, as he in return sold me games like Skies of Arcadia and Power Stone for DC almost half the cost. In this day and age though, how much does a game really cost though? haha
My local store seems to be doing well still. They don't do brand new games but they have preowned, they do comics, card games, board games and action figures. I go there to get cheap PS4 games and any kind of weird hardware they have laying around. They have a Jaguar and 5200 I've been eyeing but are missing wires, hopefully they find them so they can sell me more crap.
One random thought I just had looking at the picture of Luna games' show room, or whatever you wanna call it. When setting up a store like that, where would you even get that metal grid stuff on the wall that the games are all hanging from? Like is there some sort of retail supply depot that sells all of this stuff? And what would you even ask for? "Metal grid things to hang stuff from"?
I work at an independent game store as well (I have worked for all game stores since 2003, i.e. Babbages, Gamestop, Game Crazy, Walmart, Play N Trade, ect). All of our profit comes from retro and used games. People get mad at us because we charge more than ebay values for our retro games. Ebayers don't have bills and employees to pay. We don't have those prices to be dicks, we have them like that to keep the lights on. Plus, in order for us to stock new games, we have to make up the profit lost from those sales. In order to do that, we will try to give you as little for your games a possible before you decide to walk out. We are willing to negotiate as long as it's worth it to us in the end. Just don't expect us to care about taking your stack of old sports games for PS2. Gamestop having their trade-in values open to public view helps us immensely to make sure we make maximum profit at all times. Thanks gamestop for helping us take away your customers! It's so easy to add $2-$5 more on top of GS's offer. They aren't even competition anymore. We try our best, but in the end, it's a business and business is about money/profit. If there is no money to be made, then we won't waste our time.
Used to work in an indie game store from the late 90s till just after the Xbox came out Wholesalers where a bit of a prig, they only gave discounts on games if gotten in bulks of 10+ and even then its not much of a saving, for a game we sold at £30 we would have to pay £27, £26 if 10+, we had to undercut big stores so sold new PS1 games for £30 (Big stores where £40), N64 games we made very little off, we had to buy them for £40 and sell them for that (the RRP was £45), then came Xbox and PS2, we made no money off them, we did trades, we made our money off the trades. This was before everybody and his dog had the internet
Pat it's obvious you've never worked retail (Lucky you!). The only way an item can have 100% profit is if you received it for free. If you buy something for $25 and sell it for $50 it's a 50% margin. Half the sale was profit not 100%.
I think the biggest issue is retro gaming is pricing itself out of people caring. Its just to expensive for everyone involved. It cost sellers to much to keep inventory and realistically only hardcore collectors think paying anything over $50 for a used game is ridiculous.
the reasons why game store started like closing down especially in New York there's some that still going strong but like when Gamestop first came to New York like when it start building as a franchise they start buying up all the other stores or either people think GameStop was a good place to have deals on games which it wasn't and they stopped supporting local game stores and I'm not trying to be racist and nothing but this some game stores that's owned by Indians and I seen them have Chinese people come in with pirated games and use plastic to make it look like it's brand new so that's why most game stores are closing down
First of all, great podcast, pat.. and i disagree on your speculations on retro games. As a newer generation (i was born in 94), however, ps2 and ps3 Games have a special place in my heart. It is not monumental or timeless classic like nes library, but sometimes i sometimes turn on my ps2 to seek nostalgia. Isn't it seeking the nostalgia the main reason for retro gaming? I remember that nes and snes games were dirt cheap back in early 2000s. And today, it has became so expensive. So, we don't know how's it gonna be, there could be boom on ps2 and ps3 when they hit the prime.
Another thing I don't quite get is if you're a small independent game store who sells used games, then why not supplement your income by putting up listings for some of them on Ebay, at least for the ones that have been sitting a while without selling? Seems that would help immensely with sales and income in general, and you could literally have your employees help create Ebay listings for your store during the slower hours. You could simply create an Ebay account for the store itself and sell on there as well. Hell, that's what I'd do if I had a shop.
The funny thing is, the big chains don't pay that much less. When talking to my district manager back in the day at Gamecrazy, that was the no 1 reason for pushing the game guard wear and tear warranties, the strategy guides, etc etc. If I owned a game store today and sold newer games at the store, I'd avoid any video game distributer and stick with Amazon completely, based on how the local VHS/Video game distributer treated my friends' and family's businesses alone.
I've been wanting to open up a store in my area for a while now. The closest GameStop to me is almost an hour and the closest retro game place is about an hour and a half.
Yes, when the people who were kids when PS3 are adults with income, they will go looking for PS3 games. Just like my dad collects tube radios (they were popular when he was a kid)
I've run a independent video game store in the U.K for over 15 years and it's a totally different ball game now a days. Rise of digital and online sales we've seen a massive decline in sales and even footfall. I would say 5 more years in it for stores, Our main focus is retro but we're finding more people are cutting out the middle man (us) and selling direct on eBay or facebook. :(
The wholesale price of games going up is probably due to companies pushing digital releases, they sell a copy of Call of Duty to Gamestop for $55 so Gamestop sells it for $60 to make a little profit but Sony is selling Call of Duty on the digital store for the same price and the consumer doesn't have to leave their house to get it, hell I don't know about Microsoft but I can purchase a game digitally for my PS4 from my smart phone while I'm at work and it has finished downloading by the time I get home and with the digital games the publisher has complete control of it, nobody can undersell them if they have complete control of all the assets. Which is why stores like Gamestop have so much extra stuff like T-Shirts and little figures is because just the games aren't turning much of a profit anymore.
one thing never mentioned walmart has buying power ,now with that said I've picked up many sealed games on clearance their for 2 to 5 each good games to,so independent game stores should only deal on used games of new Generation systems offer good in store credit on trade in on next Gen games systems etc everyone wins
I could see people retro collecting for PS3 and Xbox 360. In fact, I think every system will be retro collected for unless it switches to digital only.
Like any other business, money comes in a handful of ways and goes out a hundred ways. Rent, utilities, and the like are constantly due regardless of your revenue.
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Do you run an independent game store or have any insight into it? interested in hearing your feedback/experience.
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Haha
I think this is my favorite video from the CU Podcast. This isn't just happening to independent game stores but independent stores of all types. My family runs a pet store which they've been running since 1975 and we see the same thing. Fighting with chains and shitty distributors is an everyday thing. I had a friend who managed hobby store (board games, Magic, Yugioh, Tabletop) and he saw the same issues.
Pat the NES Punk I love independent game stores but I just can't bring myself to spend money at them. Gaming can be an expensive hobby. Brick-and-mortar will always be more expensive than an eBay shop. Maybe when I have a lot more disposable income.
The local independent game store by me moved a couple years ago, to a location hours away. Now it's just GameStop and the other big chains.
doctorx0079 eBay is precisely what keeps the prices down. Competition is fierce, both between eBay sellers and between other vendors. You'll practically always find the lowest price there for a given item. In fact, that's why it's so hard for small shops. Why pay a premium when you can order it online for significantly cheaper?
I see independent and retro stores as places where I would go (if I could) to not look for anything in particular, and to just look around until something piques my interest.
i would think brink & mortar would be lower. I usually order online for convenience, but couldn't you go into the local shop and ask them to price match with a 15% discount taking into account the ebay fees and paypal fees? i guess this would make more sense for used games than new games.
I've been a manager at an independent game store for nearly 4 years now. And all this is true. Every year gets harder and harder to keep the doors open. I love the game store where i work, it's my second home. I'd hate to see it go. But I can see stores like mine not existing 5 to 6 years from now. It sucks because stores like this need to exist. A place where you can buy a game from a friendly person who you can have a brief conversation with about a hobby you love so much, instead of a person who has to constantly try to sell you a magazine subscription or something else you really don't need. That, or someone who really doesn't know or care about video games. Working at an independent game store has been amazing, I'd hate to see that magic go away. If you have a chance to work at an independent game store, even if it's for a short amount of time, I say take that chance. It would be quite the experience to have in life.
Gamestop isn't going to last a whole lot longer either. Why deal with the hassle of employees pushing subscriptions or screwing you on resells when you can go through Amazon, Ebay or Craigslist? Hopefully the retro stores weather this and are able to make a comeback. There is a fair amount of interest in those older games and systems. I'd rather play old school Nintendo games than 90% of the current Nintendo stuff. Too much focus on the console war and not enough on quality games.
Kotaco do you guys trade by chance?
its not just video games, its all of retail. amazon is eating everyone's lunch
^ Hey I know this dude. H1 Gill :)
Yeah, Amazon really is eating everyone for lunch. Even the warehouse where I work selling (mostly) women's clothing is threatened by Amazon. Now shipping companies like UPS and FedEx might have to worry about Amazon coming in and replacing them as Amazon starts up its own shipping services to completely with FedEx SmartPost and UPS SurePost.
I honestly don't know if the warehouse I work at will be around in 10 years because of Amazon. Amazon announced that they were going to start up a competitor to Blue Apron, and now Blue Apron's stocks are in the shitter. If I continue to work in warehousing, I think I'll have to seriously look into relocating and working for Amazon if this keeps up.
Amazon is using similar tactics that made Walmart successful, focusing on high product turns to make money, instead of a flat 30% profit margin for items that most businesses would target. The difference is that Amazon has made it fast and convenient to get those items to your door, but price wise they really aren't much different than anyone else.
Let's say I want to build a computer from parts. I can't get the deep discounts by going on a site like pricewatch.com like I would have in 2002, because that site is a shell of its former self. I used to be able to pick parts from a bunch of different places to get a great deal! Now Amazon will only price you based on the warehouses it mostly can get an item to you in with the cheapest 2-day shipping window. I always get items from close to my home and rarely from places out of the state of PA where I live (sometimes New Jersey). You have no options on Amazon to see a REAL full list of vendors from across all of Amazon's DC's in the US and REALLY find the best price, because that would make it so Amazon loses more on shipping cost.
if they arent competitive, then they deserve to die.
Some of the best content I've heard on this podcast. Great stuff. I cannot believe the wholesale price of new games is over $50. That is just ridiculous.
Agreed, this might be my favourite CUPodcast bit ever. Discussion was interesting af
Came here to say the same thing, and I'm usually the chops-buster.
Agreed
It's as absurd as Donald Trump being President.
Yeah it's weird. When I worked at Best Buy we got an employee discount on most things which was cost the company paid plus like 10 percent or something but games we only got like $5 off and they said that it was actually the right price compared to what they paid for it. Guess it was true. Also the part about they make most money on accessories...
OMG I knew he looked familiar. I've been to to the luna gamestore several times and I didn't recognize you. Love the podcast keep it up guys :)
This is Kevin of Game On that was in the article.
I'm surprised that they interviewed me for the article back in January. Just glad that others got to see my side of the story on how I got my start. Not sure why they decided to use the photo of the storage that I use for excess storage, but I want to let everyone know that is not the actual inside of the store. I use what I can for room, but that shop in general is not one huge mess. lol
Also for those wondering, they only interviewed stores that aren't retail chains, and only interviewed those that have one physical location open. That's why places like Luna or Game Bros were not in this.
Love Ian's insight. I have the honor of only living about 30 minutes from the shop in Fenton, MO included in this article. The guys there are great and truly care about retro gaming. I try to get out there as often as I can as they are far and away the best shop in the St. Louis area.
Josh Cummins Yes! TNG Rocks!
@@ill8always8be8kezia ROCKS?!?!? Who!?!?!?? WHAT?!?!?! Where!?!?! who has my pipe?... dont play with me JACK!
You wanna know how to make a small fortune in running a retro game store? Start with a big fortune.
Good one!!
@@johnnyace2287 Thank you, Funk Man!
I like the fact that Luna offers repairs to all the systems they sell. In my area NO ONE has the skills to repairs ANY console every produced.
Thanks guys. I respect the heck out of you both for always bringing up points that may conflict with you're views but you discuss them anyways.
I'm the owner of 2 Gamestores in Puerto Rico, we have been running since 2000, reacently gamestop closed all their stores in Puerto Rico, and we have gotten much more costumers in that see our stores as 'NEW" because before we where hidden under the gamestop shadow. We've been in business 17 years because we do NOT sell new games, there's never been a need for us to sell those because we do well with used games and because we've always specialized in retro games. Costumers don't understand the costs involved running a store, they also think we HAVE to give them a discount or sell them games and accesories for less than they sell for in walmart or best buy because we are a small store. anyways Loved this podcast, I agree completely with the article. Thanks for your podcasts. - Jerry Robles - Neo Japan Games.
retrodqfan - Lmao! You put Gamestop out of business? HAHAHA!!! Congrats!
Thanks for the vid. Very informative. One of the best things I ever did with my life was NOT buying a comic book store twenty years ago when I had the chance.
These boys are GEEKING! And not the nerding out kind of geeking. Love it lol
Extremely interesting conversation Pat & Ian. Keep up the great work!
There's an independent video game store nearly two blocks away from my apartment. They also carry DVDs and started carrying board games alongside the usual classic and modern video game consoles.
Great video guys. I'd love to hear a longer discussion between you both about whether or not game collecting will continue beyond the earlier consoles to the next generations.
There's three retro stores 15 minutes apart an hour away from me. All opened up around the same time frame. Can't imagine all 3 staying afloat at the same time
Thanks for the great content guys!
Quite possibly one of the best podcasts you have ever done. Excellent work Pat and Ian...!
My retro game store just went under last year and is now a damn massage parlor..... we need retro game stores for the future
13:58 lol! thought Ian was gonna short circuit there for sec.
Great episode guys. A lot of good information. There is so much nostalgia for me to go to an independent game store. I don't mind paying more than I would on amazon for a lot of the reasons you guys hit on
They opened a retro game store in my town which made me happy, but they decided to do it in the mall and a loose copy of Bil Walsh Football for the Genesis costs $15
Cody Como lol wont last
Same, but mine went out of business real quick
this one has hung in there a few years now, despite charging between 3-5x ebay prices for everything
3-5x Super Smash Bros Melee for 200 bucks.
lol alright maybe more like 2-4x
I think the fact Luna Games now have a built in fan base, I went and baught a game on vacation in April just because I like this podcast.
This was an excellent segment lead by Ian, congratulations I really enjoyed it.
These stories are hilarious even not working in a gamestore its so fun to hear about it since its pretty much just a retail worker experience haha
We opened a game store on February in a small town in Florida. So far we're doing ok but definitely sales needs to pickup. Summer time blues started a couple weeks ago but we expect sales to pickup in the fall. Nintendo cartridge games are still be big sellers for us. We stay away from new sealed games but have a small selection of Xbox One and PS4 games.
Love hearing about this stuff. It is absolutely fascinating. Some of the best content yet!
I have a feeling retro game stores will start to take off in the next 5-10 years with all the 90's kids growing up.
I've only ever been to two independent stores that were purely video game related. The majority of shops I visit diversify themselves with board gaming, vintage toys and or comic books.
Very VERY late reply but...
My local retro store also does cellphone and laptop repair, for the last 3 years everytime I go in there it is PACKED and probably 80% of the people there are getting their laptops or cellphones repaired. I think the retro games probably help get sooo Many customers because I do always see new customers talking about "whoa! They have the old Mario's and nintendos!? This place is cool!"
Can agree. In my hometown theres one game store thats been around for over a decade and about ten minutes away in one of the largest malls in America is another game store thats constantly being sold and downsized and probably won't last.
This was hands down the most interesting segment of the podcast to date. Not the most entertaining I'd say, but definitely the most interesting and the most engrossing
Could you imagine if owning a locally game store was actually simpler than what it actually is. The amount of nerds that would be content with their lives would be so wholesome, and I mean that with good intentions.
Great topic!!
I do service work for a living. What Ian is saying is spot on. Those bigger companies, pretty much tell you what they are going to pay, regardless of what you normally charge. My normal service rate could be $100 a hour and a part could be $100, those bigger places will pretty much tell you they will pay $70 a hour and $85 for that part. I didn't realize the profit margins were so small on those games though. I guess I never really related my experiences to our trades.
I wish we had an independent game store because I AM SICK, AND TIRED OF MOTHER FUCKING GAMESTOP!
Marc Baker I live overseas now. Actual game stores are hard to find, and when you do, every new game is more than what you would pay in America. And there's pretty much zero used game stores anywhere overseas unless you go to a major city with over a million people. You have no idea how much I miss GameStop. I didn't appreciate it much before, but when I go back to America once a year, walking in GameStop is like heaven. Gamers overseas are all super jealous of Americans since they can go to GameStop and get lots of used games for more than half than what they are paying.
Okay, I understand how you miss Gamestop when you go to other countries, but they have a shit ton of problems that keep me away from them. They're constantly shoving 'pre-orders' up my face, they're 'propaganda' programing sucks ass, the games are never in good shape most of the time, they never sell 'new' copies, they give you pennies for trade ins, and then jack up the price, I just hate that place! If Gamestop would change their ways, Maybe I would shop there again.
Ian is right. At Luna, they can't be willing to haggle on prices, which I totally understand but they do have a good amount of great prices for different games.
13:44
Ian just telling it how it is:
Gamestop: Write that down! Write it down!
There's an independant game store across the street from my house and every time I pre order there, I get games early.
This is fantastic content guys. You guys did a good job of being objective and unbiased despite being so passionate about gaming.
I dunno Pat, the store I work at, we used to have a piddly PS1 and PS2 section. Now we've got full showcases of both of them taking up about 20% of the store and we get people buying/asking for PS2 consoles and even PS1 consoles at least 5 times a day - and that's a low estimate. I've sold people PS3s just to play PS1 games just because it's so hard to keep PS1 and PS2 consoles in stock.
Granted, I don't know how much of that is due to the popularity of the Crash Bandicoot re-releases, I kinda feel like that reminded people that there's games on the old PlayStation consoles, but it has been kinda ridiculous how much activity the PS1/PS2 sections have been getting these past two or three weeks.
A retro game store opened like a year or two ago in my town and they are doing great. Before them I dont remember ever even seeing a retro game store in person, they picked a great location to start. I think they started it after they got out of college, or something like that.
Great CUPodcast, really informative, good to see Ian back in the zone.
These are the reasons we closed our doors for good. I loved the business, but profits dropped to nothing compared to what they were. I will miss it every day for the rest of my life. I wish you all the best of luck and hope you beat the 5 to 10 year brick and mortar prediction.
Wish me the best of luck i am thinking of opening a game store. I would start off in the flea market while i keep my full time job. Hopefully get my own store one day!
Very informative videos. Thanks guys!
Just read that article, and it was well worth the read. It's a very interesting market right now.
People do not understand the cost of doing business. Essentially, if you are a business owner in today's day and age, you are a greedy scumbag in the eyes of the consumer. All the taxes and regulations levied against those big corporations is not only circumvented by those corporations, but any increase in cost incurred is directly handed down to small businesses like Luna and consumers. Not only that but most successful small businesses also get lumped into those taxes and regulations and without a multi million dollar lobbying group and team of lawyers, they typically face rising costs from having to actually ABIDE by those rules. It's sickening really.
I've said this before and i'll say it again.
Lobbying *at the national level* needs to be ABOLISHED.
Absolutely, along with imposed term limits. No more career politicians. That way the government might actually reflect what the PEOPLE want, not what a bunch of suits with duffle bags full of cash want.
I agreed on one of the store owner's mentioning having services (ie console repair) to keep customers coming in the door.
I’ve never seen Ian this fired up before
Fuck using just Amazon or eBay as your sole source for retro video games. Obviously get ones you can't find, there. But I love going to my local shop browsing, popping in, grabbing a game randomly. I can just grab a game right then, bam it's in my hands. No shipping back and forth, esp for returns. I may see the same game fifteen times and some Saturday I want it. Talk about nostalgia, I get to go to the store and buy a "new" game whenever I want, and play it that night. I love that.
That's the reason I still shop at brick stores because I don't want to wait for the fucking shipping.
$800 for a storefront, damn I pay $850 for a one bedroom in Chicago burbs.
Holy cow the intro image is Trade 'n' games.
I helped set up those shelves.
The guys who run the store are absolutely amazing
Holy! Great discussion, dudes! Things got heavy towards the last 5 minutes. I gotta say, and I am not being a fan boy or anything, but for retro gaming stores, I only go to Luna Video Games. Even before I heard about this podcast. I have been going since 2008 after watching a commercial about Luna super late one night. Haha. Once again, great content, Pat and Ian!
It's 2021, and I'm starting to see a big increase of PS3 collectors
It's the same in my country, wholesalers take the profit now, they probably get the games at the same or almost the same price as they got them in the past, but they are adding a much bigger profitmargin, so it's the middleman, who gets most of the profit.
Gamebro's in first colony mall of Houston Texas has a awesome selection of retro and old school games.
PriereMK2 I'm in the greater Houston area and we have seen our share of retro game stores closing stores like GameBros. & Game Over might be able to hold out but the craze has definitely slowed
They have a great selection, but I fear they might close down, I've seen 2 retro stores close in first colony. They do get a little pricey, $35 dollars for super Mario world (seccond edition cart print) is way too much, but I do understand that they have to make a profit and that they are in a mall so rent is high. But I will still buy my share to support them. Hopefully they stay
First Colony Mall is in Sugar Land. Not in Houston. It's in the Houston area, yeah. But not in Houston lol
In the Cleveland area one retro game store went under and it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy . . . However, we have our own version of LUNA here called The Exchange. They have branched out into action figures / marvel legends / funko / retro toys, they have been around shoot for almost 40 years now. I think the market is about to bottom out soon. The vast majority of the games I post for sale on any online forum there are maybe 5 scalpers / resellers to 1 serious buyer. Seems like very few new collectors are coming in to the hobby at this point, at least in my area. Plus not to mention the amount of bootleg cartridges that have flooded the market recently which lowers confidence. Contra has come back to a realistic price of around 25.00 - 30.00 as opposed to the 40 - 45 it was fetching at the peak of the market.
Covid really messed up this 5-10 year forcast, didn't it?
Yeah obviously they had no idea but its fun to look back at this prediction of pricing to see where things are now!
"we've talked about this on the podcast" the Podcast.
I think i agree with the collecting discs for Ps3/Xbox 360......purely because even those have quite a lot of DLC and updates linked to it
Awsome interview. I've loved Luna video gAmes for a long time and have bought systems and games there with no problems at all and the prices are better than the other old school video game stores. I have had a few friends ask me about old games and I always suggest Luna video games since we live about 30 min away. Everyone I recommend to Luna is always happy and all the systems still work to this day and many were purchased 7 or more years ago
Actually, I've found numerous stores that allowed me, a random guy, to purchase trading cards, figurines, collector items, and even video games. I just wound up having to purchase a lot of the same thing. Like, for $500 I managed 3 large boxes of trading cards totaling over $4500 total sales at the time. I still have quite a few of those unopened booster boxes which are selling surprisingly well for twice the price from 3 or 4 years ago.
One thing I do realize is you have to purchase the same product if you are a regular joe looking to score. I wouldn't have bought 3 boxes like that if you could just purchase collectively and not have to purchase a hundred copies of the same item.
For retro video games, I try to purchase low and sell under or at market value. I only do convention swapmeets too to keep my overhead very low. I challenge others to find a like-product condition at that price online. Then again, I'm more of a maverick (I guess you call me?) in terms of how I do things. I'm also very patient and do this in my free time, spending very little as it is for a decent turnout 2 to 3 times a year.
I don't own a shop and I don't mind paying market price or a little above if it means I can add it to my normal collection of games or even systems. I've been working with a fellow con-goer too as I've sold him games like Tales of Destiny I & II and Fire Emblem Path of Radiance, as he in return sold me games like Skies of Arcadia and Power Stone for DC almost half the cost.
In this day and age though, how much does a game really cost though? haha
My local store seems to be doing well still. They don't do brand new games but they have preowned, they do comics, card games, board games and action figures. I go there to get cheap PS4 games and any kind of weird hardware they have laying around. They have a Jaguar and 5200 I've been eyeing but are missing wires, hopefully they find them so they can sell me more crap.
What about opening a retro game store in an area where there aren't any? Could that work out?
Already seeing PS3, DS, Vita, and Wii collectors.
One random thought I just had looking at the picture of Luna games' show room, or whatever you wanna call it. When setting up a store like that, where would you even get that metal grid stuff on the wall that the games are all hanging from? Like is there some sort of retail supply depot that sells all of this stuff? And what would you even ask for? "Metal grid things to hang stuff from"?
I want to go to retro game stores instead of ordering online but I can never find any :/
Great discussion
I have been to Luna games several times. What a coincidence that you run the store!
I work at an independent game store as well (I have worked for all game stores since 2003, i.e. Babbages, Gamestop, Game Crazy, Walmart, Play N Trade, ect). All of our profit comes from retro and used games.
People get mad at us because we charge more than ebay values for our retro games. Ebayers don't have bills and employees to pay. We don't have those prices to be dicks, we have them like that to keep the lights on. Plus, in order for us to stock new games, we have to make up the profit lost from those sales. In order to do that, we will try to give you as little for your games a possible before you decide to walk out. We are willing to negotiate as long as it's worth it to us in the end. Just don't expect us to care about taking your stack of old sports games for PS2.
Gamestop having their trade-in values open to public view helps us immensely to make sure we make maximum profit at all times. Thanks gamestop for helping us take away your customers! It's so easy to add $2-$5 more on top of GS's offer. They aren't even competition anymore.
We try our best, but in the end, it's a business and business is about money/profit. If there is no money to be made, then we won't waste our time.
I think if I was you I'd start thinking about getting into another line of work.
Used to work in an indie game store from the late 90s till just after the Xbox came out
Wholesalers where a bit of a prig, they only gave discounts on games if gotten in bulks of 10+ and even then its not much of a saving, for a game we sold at £30 we would have to pay £27, £26 if 10+, we had to undercut big stores so sold new PS1 games for £30 (Big stores where £40), N64 games we made very little off, we had to buy them for £40 and sell them for that (the RRP was £45), then came Xbox and PS2, we made no money off them, we did trades, we made our money off the trades.
This was before everybody and his dog had the internet
14:40 omg pat is Patrick Ian is sponge bob.
Pat it's obvious you've never worked retail (Lucky you!). The only way an item can have 100% profit is if you received it for free. If you buy something for $25 and sell it for $50 it's a 50% margin. Half the sale was profit not 100%.
I want to go to retro game stores but I can never find any :/
I think the biggest issue is retro gaming is pricing itself out of people caring. Its just to expensive for everyone involved. It cost sellers to much to keep inventory and realistically only hardcore collectors think paying anything over $50 for a used game is ridiculous.
the reasons why game store started like closing down especially in New York there's some that still going strong but like when Gamestop first came to New York like when it start building as a franchise they start buying up all the other stores or either people think GameStop was a good place to have deals on games which it wasn't and they stopped supporting local game stores and I'm not trying to be racist and nothing but this some game stores that's owned by Indians and I seen them have Chinese people come in with pirated games and use plastic to make it look like it's brand new so that's why most game stores are closing down
First of all, great podcast, pat.. and i disagree on your speculations on retro games. As a newer generation (i was born in 94), however, ps2 and ps3 Games have a special place in my heart. It is not monumental or timeless classic like nes library, but sometimes i sometimes turn on my ps2 to seek nostalgia. Isn't it seeking the nostalgia the main reason for retro gaming? I remember that nes and snes games were dirt cheap back in early 2000s. And today, it has became so expensive. So, we don't know how's it gonna be, there could be boom on ps2 and ps3 when they hit the prime.
This was a really good topic.
Another thing I don't quite get is if you're a small independent game store who sells used games, then why not supplement your income by putting up listings for some of them on Ebay, at least for the ones that have been sitting a while without selling? Seems that would help immensely with sales and income in general, and you could literally have your employees help create Ebay listings for your store during the slower hours. You could simply create an Ebay account for the store itself and sell on there as well. Hell, that's what I'd do if I had a shop.
The funny thing is, the big chains don't pay that much less. When talking to my district manager back in the day at Gamecrazy, that was the no 1 reason for pushing the game guard wear and tear warranties, the strategy guides, etc etc.
If I owned a game store today and sold newer games at the store, I'd avoid any video game distributer and stick with Amazon completely, based on how the local VHS/Video game distributer treated my friends' and family's businesses alone.
Ian sounds like beavis and buttheads teacher on this episode
I've been wanting to open up a store in my area for a while now. The closest GameStop to me is almost an hour and the closest retro game place is about an hour and a half.
A video on location would be cool
I miss Alameda Video Game Exchange. That was my favorite place.
Amazon sells an all in one N64 cartridge that includes 340 games for less than 100 dollars...I also have just affected independent game stores.
interesting topic, Luna in CV. I'll have to check it out. Thanks!
I really missed these long-form discussion segments.
I'm new to your show and channel, but I gotta ask: are you using a case fan to cool yourself down?
Yes, when the people who were kids when PS3 are adults with income, they will go looking for PS3 games. Just like my dad collects tube radios (they were popular when he was a kid)
I've run a independent video game store in the U.K for over 15 years and it's a totally different ball game now a days. Rise of digital and online sales we've seen a massive decline in sales and even footfall. I would say 5 more years in it for stores, Our main focus is retro but we're finding more people are cutting out the middle man (us) and selling direct on eBay or facebook. :(
Come to the suburbs of Chicago. A 2 bed apt is 1200.
Ian your shirt is epic!
Awesome video
Baby Seeeealed at 5:47 :)
The wholesale price of games going up is probably due to companies pushing digital releases, they sell a copy of Call of Duty to Gamestop for $55 so Gamestop sells it for $60 to make a little profit but Sony is selling Call of Duty on the digital store for the same price and the consumer doesn't have to leave their house to get it, hell I don't know about Microsoft but I can purchase a game digitally for my PS4 from my smart phone while I'm at work and it has finished downloading by the time I get home and with the digital games the publisher has complete control of it, nobody can undersell them if they have complete control of all the assets. Which is why stores like Gamestop have so much extra stuff like T-Shirts and little figures is because just the games aren't turning much of a profit anymore.
one thing never mentioned walmart has buying power ,now with that said I've picked up many sealed games on clearance their for 2 to 5 each good games to,so independent game stores should only deal on used games of new Generation systems offer good in store credit on trade in on next Gen games systems etc everyone wins
I could see people retro collecting for PS3 and Xbox 360. In fact, I think every system will be retro collected for unless it switches to digital only.
Pat interrupts Ian too much.
Can you guys retouch on this in 2021? I feel like so many things have changed
Like any other business, money comes in a handful of ways and goes out a hundred ways. Rent, utilities, and the like are constantly due regardless of your revenue.