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So wild how you two fell into this drama and ended up being journalists on a degree that is very rarely reserved for video game journalists. Mad respect. Hopefully it doesn't stress you guys out too much. Loads of appreciation for your integrity. Like and subscribe indeed!!!
I just wanted to give Pat and Ian a big thumbs up for coverage of all of this. Thank you guys for watching out for those of us in the hobby. You guys are awesome.
This has been my favourite ongoing news story regarding anything in the longest time. I simply could not wait to see what kind of underhanded bullshit they were going to try to get away with next. It was such a wildly entertaining ride. To that end, I'm really sad to see it end. Oh well, guess I'll just have to go back to actually playing games...
Well this video is a bit bittersweet. It's nice to hear that this "system" if you could even call it that is finally dead. However, these videos covering the great tale of the Coleco Chameleon were some of my favorite the podcast has ever done. In this scenario I'd have to reverse the old saying being "I love to see you go, but hate to watch you leave". It truly was a Chameleon, a SNES/capture card changing its skin to look like something else. RIP
SuperDashRendar "Ya know r ight around the holidays, everybody's scramblin' around trying to get the best deal on the latest Xbox-Station U 360 2.0 3D Turbo edition, but why the heck do ya need yer game console to play Blu Rays and go online and cook ya toast fer breakfast? Back in my day, all we needed was just a cartridge, a simple gaming console, and an old TV tuned to channel 3. Because if you went to 99, things didn't turn out too great. But collecting old consoles from back in the day can be expensive! That's where our old friend and handyman's secret weapon duct tape comes in. All you need to do is take apart an old SNES junior, it doesn't need to be the whole kit n' kaboodle, just the game slot and power switch, rip the guts out and fasten it in tight to this here Jaguar casing, theere we are, and well lookie there. Merry christmas. Let's test her out!" *VRRRRR CRASH* "...Well, just consider this beta testing! And remember. If women don't find ya handsome, they should at least find ya handy"
Glad to see Pat be level-headed and not be ragey here. His previous video about this console gave me that impression and inclined me to think that this video would just be 28 more minutes of him ranting and saying FU many times. That shows professionalism in my opinion.
+electricmastro I'd also say that there's a level of catharsis from seeing it finally, really, and truly be dead where ranting and swearing isn't needed anymore.
I think the defense some people are making about there being no victims is highly flawed. We now know some of the lengths this guy went to in trying to market his non-existent product. Do you think a guy like that paid for any of the initial costs of having the shells made, or anything like that? Someone paid for it. This also hit people's reputation, fairly or unfairly, it's still a price that was paid.
We never would have uncovered all this twenty years ago but between everyone on forums and communities(including youtube) it all came out in the open. You guys at Punk Effect put in a huge effort to cover this properly....good work guys.
I doubt Coleco dumped equity into this, usually it would just be a licensing deal and they would get an upfront amount and a percentage of eventual sales only. Plus they are owned now by investors only who most likely wouldn't touch something like this until proof of concept and a prototype which would be at a low price to produce similar to the Coleco Flashback consoles which look like they cost $5.00 to make.
+Roger Sherman A lot of work goes into those flashback consoles. There's a ton of legwork that has to be done to make those happen. If I had the cash I'd do something similar. A couple of lawyers, an electrical engineer, and an experienced B2B sales guy are all the core staff you really need. The rest is freelance as you need it.
This has inspired me to create my own retro video game system. It will use the Neo Geo AES's shell and Atari 5200's controllers, and it will play all new 20-bit games! Yes, that's right, forget the 8-bit era or the 16-bit era, this system will create a new era! Do the math! . . . now where is my Genesis mark 3 and that old video card from my Windows 3.1 computer . . .
you know after all the dust has settled time passed etc. I had some showerthoughts and to me, now it feels more like Mike Orchestrated everything. Toy fair, lies by Lee, etc to go to KS without a proto and fund it there. He lied to get third parties to vouch for him. Coleco, Piko, Collectorvision, and make his project more credible.
+PikoInteractive I think thats EXACTLY what happened. I'd bet he used money from the retro mag kickstarter to buy those jag toolings too. He's said that he didnt and I doubt anyone could prove it but if they could I'm pretty sure that constitutes fraud in the worst case and slimeball shit in the best case.
+PikoInteractive Yeah, that seems to be what's going on. A lot of people got FUCKED by Kennedy. Hopefully you guys can recover from this and keep the business moving. I've done some business with you, and I can tell you that I like the work you do. I plan to do more business with you guys in the future, and look forward to seeing more of your games on SNES and Genesis.
I thought you had dropped support after the first board scam. I remember you talking about it in the Digital Press thread. Did Mike rope you back in for support? Or were you just getting unfairly associated with the Toy Fair scam for providing the test cart?
I had a chance to visit the old St-Ambroise building where Coleco was for many years... hard to imagine Donkey kongs, Colecovisions, cab patch kids and the ADAM were all Montreal-made products..... There is a display in the building in honor of Coleco. It is all super expensive hipster lofts now
I'm sorry to say I was friends with Mike (at one point). He wanted to promote my RUclips channel, and would compensate me if I promoted his video game auction site at the start of my videos, which I did. He would also promote the show on his message forum. After some time, I stopped promoting his Gamegavel site. I never received any profit, but then I never really cared. The idea was to spread the word about the show, not to get rich. Then hearing about his Coleco system, I remained neutral. I even met up with him in a NY bar/restaurant after the Toy fair showing. He seemed confident the system would take off. He talked to me about helping with this and other projects. I said I was "busy with the show", and that was that. Some time had passed, the system/concept went nowhere, and he cut off all ties with me, even went as far as to unfriend me on Facebook (eh, it's Facebook, big deal). That's my small dealing with Mike Kennedy. I'm glad I only invested a small portion of my time with him. Imagine if I spent money.
Pat and Ian, thanks for warning gamers about shady people like this Mike guy. I saw Gamester81 video "apology" in which he tells Pat to get over it because no one lost any money, so I felt compelled to come here and post in support of you guys. Attempted fraud should draw outrage, especially when it's being perpetrated against members of your community (retro gamers).
You should take a look at Zimba3000! The Coleco Chameleon was supposed to have an already made prototype before KevTris left. He already succeeded in making working cores for a lot of systems and his work was supposed to be used in the Chameleon until he got too fed up and left. Now he started a thread about it and everything looks interesting!
This has unfolded exactly the way many people in the Retro camp had told me/us it wouldn't. I wonder how many people he had trolling social media. They seem to be gone now. Again: I would love to see an expose documentary on this that wraps it all up in a concise, well produced independent feature film. And: We will probably never see those Jaguar molds ever again put to *good* use (instead of a con like this). Somebody better offer him a gorrilian dollars for them if no other reason than to save them.
Watching this as a non native english speaker i jumped when Ian said:"..this is where streams get crossed.", Youre not telling me, that this Ghostbusters referencing stylistic figure found its way into your daily vocabulary? Hahaha
Not sure why, but I've always just watched these videos until today when I finally subscribed to the podcast. Not sure why I didn't realize it was a podcast on iTunes until now... but this is great content for the gaming community.
I've been suspicious from the get-go and the video confirms everything that I thought about the Chameleon. Well done gentlemen. BTW I'm MegaManFan on AA so the many mentions of the site brought a huge smile to my face.
i can't believe that the podcast has devoted so much time to this debacle. i haven't heard about the system anywhere else so its really small time news. but now maybe they can move onto something else with more mainstream appeal.
As soon as my laptop's fixed I will do a full video on how upset I am with the state of gaming today. The PS4 and Xbox One require constant updating and that takes forever, too many games now are just £50 demos that bully you into buying £100 worth of DLC, many handheld games now are smartphone titles which are free to download but try to con you out of £5 here and £10 there, and I was REALLY hoping that the Coleco Chameleon would successfully provide us with an update-free alternative to the PS4 and Xbox One. I have been putting off my "everything wrong with 2010s gaming" video forever and the fall of the Chameleon is why I want to get working on it now. One thing holding me back is that because the 2010s is such a bad gaming decade, I don't know where to start.
The timing and details of the formation of the LLC is pretty interesting. That was probably the first overlooked red flag for his "partners" in this venture. What a shame for all the people who invested actual mindshare into the project. Hard lessons...
22:26-22:33 That is basically MysteriousMrEnter in a nutshell when it boils down to his upcoming show Growing Around. Meanwhile, the dude does NOTHING but review what he calls "Animated Atrocities," and talk down to his audience/refuse any of their requests!
when has that ever happened? Plus he's already explained many times why he doesn't do certain requests. And really? Show me one show he's reviewed as an atrocity that wasn't bad. You sound like he ragged on something you like and you're pissy about it.
This is just me, but the biggest red flag was them using the Atari Jaguar case for a Coleco-based system. Y'all guys already know about the Coleco/Atari lawsuit issue I'm sure. For those who are unfamiliar with it, Atari and Coleco had a long standing issue with each other, especially since Coleco made an attachment for the ColecoVision that allowed people to play Atari games on their system, with Atari suing them because they believe they used Atari parts to create the attachment (which the case was dropped due to the fact that Coleco could prove that the parts used to make it could be found at any Radio Shack at the time). But to me, I get that Atari sold the mold for the Atari Jaguar to a dental company so they could use them to create cases for dental equipment. However, I think Atari would have an issue of another video game company using their Atari Jaguar case for another system. It would be like Ford selling the molds to create the shell of a Mustang and Toyota buying those molds and releasing a new car using those molds under a new name. However, that's just me going off of what I know, and I could very well be wrong.
+David Garcia that does not mean that the company that now owns the trademark doesn't have trademark on the Atari Jaguar and its case design in regards to other gaming systems using it.
+Daniel S that's true, but they don't. When you sell the molds you sell the design aspects. Also those trademarks have expired by now anyway. Just like the nes snes and Genesis
If they really wanted to create a believable fake prototype that could be shown of video or pictures, they could have just grabbed a raspberry pi, reskinned RetroPi, then put it in a black Jaguar case.
+Darko But that would require software skills. They duct taped a snes into a jag shell, and used an sd card snes rom loader in the cart slot. They couldnt even reskin the sd cart's menu. Your suggestion would be like rocket science to them. :P
They need to do like a TurboGrafix16 portable. And then have inexpensive write-protected SD cards, customized to look like cartridges. And focus on the hidden-gems and big-time games. Kind like that recent portable that got kickstarted.
Funny I could have built this Coleco prototype in about 2 weeks with either a Raspberry Pi with KODI, or an Android quad core. Stupid is as stupid gets and there are crooks out there that will sell you the second coming only to leave you broke at the end. Stay gaming my friends.
I'm almost certain at some point in the last week Ian was thinking to himself, ok so what am I gonna bring to drink during this podcast...well ive been drinking water, but I think this week needs a beer...lol I don't blame you :)
See I imagined it more like a retro gaming crime lab, where the CSI's put the capture card up to the picture and were like "it's a perfect match!" then one of them made an amazing pun and put sunglasses on
I wanna make a playlist of videos based around modern failed consoles. This stuff is just super entertaining. Particularly the drama, haha. Right now I'm thinking of adding this one, the Ouya and the ZX Spectrum Vega+. If anyone can think of more recommendations do let me know!
the gamers ourselves should design our own console. of course making it retro-styled. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to render in Internet capabilities either
I think it's gonna come to that after consoles like Sony and Mircosoft just seem like there beating a dead horse.I have a PS4 and Xbox one and use them from time to time(maybe I'm just getting bored with crappy games) but something needs to be done.....radically different
Been following you guys since the Retro VGS was announced a while back. I actually have a single issue of Retro Magazine and it was nothing that I couldn't find online. The illustration work was nice, but nothing I haven't seen from other fan art. While I wouldn't mind the idea of a homebrew market for niche video game players, It's a tremendous uphill battle to make a retro style gaming system. We have 3 major consoles and PC gaming becomes more popular, all of which you can make retro style games without cartridges. Most systems like this proposed system are just clone consoles, and those suffice enough for the retro market of used games. It'd be interesting to have "cartridge games" on cheap 8 gig SD cards with online update capacity and HDMI output. Boom, there is your "cartridge" game system for today's market. These guys associated with the project should dedicate their energy elsewhere. I have a hunch they will try again, which only digs their failure hole deeper. They should learn from their mistakes. Just make their own indie game studio and make retro style games without all the unnecessary hardware and development nightmares. There is a way these guys can come out looking okay, just stop trying to sell something that we don't want and what you can't deliver.
All I can say is that I miss the old days of how games used to be back in the day, I also am that way with movies. I did not know anything about this until this video now I want to know more about it.
kinda makes me sad. i think this was a good idea. cartridges should be optional. there should be internet and a hard drive option. maybe this could be revived as an open source/open hardware design. that is the way cores will actually get made (just look at emulation)
IAN, i don't know if you've heard, been trying to let yall know, the depew skating rink/arcade has closed down in buffalo, it will be missed, think yall should do a cast on it
Industry standard to have kids playing a prototype in promotional videos, be it direct to consumer or fundraising. Are people this outraged when a Marvel teaser trailer airs?
I interacted a little with Mike earlier on ChasetheChuckWagon and never really got the impression he would undercut someone without good cause. That being said, I'm an entrepreneur myself and feel like it gives me a bit of a unique outlook on this. Startups have this problem I don't think a lot of people appreciate that that they take A LOT OF WORK, yet so few people actually DO work. It feels to me that the biggest problem Mike is probably facing was a bunch of people who said "I wanna do it" and produced nothing. That being said, it *IS* a foul trying to present things as actual prototypes. Mike could have said "This 'prototype' is what we're shooting for" and been very clear it didn't have the hardware intended for release or anything resembling it. In trying to get something going, it is SO IMPORTANT to have something tangible to touch and see. Its crossing the ethical boundaries when you don't acknowledge what kind of work you still need. Even the clear Colleco is truly forgivable with the capture card as long as he would have disclaimed "This is what we envision it to look like".
Lots of people have built a game console just for fun or as a school project. Most of them are add-ons for ARM dev. kits or Arduinos. But none of them were commercially released and advertised as being more than the sum of their parts. The early adopters for the Coleco Chameleon were highly intelligent software and hardware developers. There was no reason for Mr. Mike Kennedy to prey upon those whom were trying to help him. Especially considering that the retro-gaming target audience is so forgiving and apologetic.
I feel like we're jumping to conclusions on that. I've worked on 5 different startups now and each of them had highly intelligent people on staff; two projects had those prodigies that graduated from college at 16 or 18. If there's one thing I learned over these ventures its that just because you're smart doesn't mean it translates to doing good work. Work ethic is lost on a lot of people; especially in startups.
Early adopters are the people who are willing to BUY a product at the very beginning of the product life cycle; ie. when it is released. I have no idea if the people working on the Coleco Chameleon were intelligent. I do not want to go there. Mr. Mike Kennedy was very lucky. He was able to gain a lot of interest with very little work on his part. In the end, he managed to sabotage his relationship with supporters and friends. Good luck on your startups.
I appericiate your support and hope offering some perspective helps a bit. From my experience, gaining support is easy, getting people who want to help is easy. Making it happen; that's the hard part. You need to find people who are VERY passionate about the product to work on it, aren't hurting for money and their source of money isn't time consuming. In my experience, the person or company who does the work gets it to market even if the product isn't nearly as good as it could have been with more intelligent bodies working on it. Another good example of this MarioCrossOver / Exploding Rabbit. The guy who built MarioCrossOver did it with extreme passion. Brought on people with the skills needed, but lacked people with the right mindset to do a startup AND ability to pull it through. Even going back to Henry Ford, he had to try to start Ford several times (I think 13?) before it finally took off. True entrapenuers are a rare animal and I honestly feel like the political climate over the last 16 years (perhaps 24) has made them/us an endangered species. I rencetly moved into something of a "Entrepreneur's Climate" with people whoa re a whole bunch more like minded about startups. I hope thats the stepping stone I needed personally to make things happen. As for Mike Kennedy's venture and Jay Pavlina; I truly feel they were good people with good intentions who generally brought into the wrong people and had to make tough, unpopular decisions. I've been there too.
Nice headphones guys...lol Quite fond of AT headphones myself, including those m50s. As for the actual topic of the video, their idea of FPGA-based limitless and flawless emulation was an impossibility from the very start. Throw in the idea of actually WANTING a new cartridge-based system (wtf? why?)... I honestly thought this was a a joke when i first heard about it.
Again, thanks for holding a light up to these shady dealings. Sadly, I agree with Ian that Mike could crawl up again, maybe not as the face of a new venture to fleece the retrogaming community, but somewhere in the background. Be vigilant; when something sounds too good to be true, it might be too good to be true.
This guy just kept digging the hole deeper. I have never seen such a story where people immediately picked up on the BS he was telling. It's like I'm watching a dark comedy.
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yes
I can imagine Tommy Tallarico watching this in 2018 and saying to himself, "the first thing I'll need to do, is take AtariAge out of the equation..."
No I think it's funny that the people that work for Tommy and the amico works for ColecoVision
@@retrogamestudios6688 And no one at PRGE 2018 put two and two together when the peoples' names appeared in the Amico presentation
Sounds like Karma...chameleon.
Love it. 👍
+Rob Pittman classic
Nice.
+MrShady365 Which thumbs up do I click on!?
This is probably the best thing to come out of this whole debacle.
MK: We have top men working on it right now.
PIKO: Who?
MK: Top... men.
What a long strange trip it has been. Thank you for the coverage of every step of the way.
Before I flushed the toilet this morning, I took a moment to admire the Coleco Chameleon prototype I had just created.
+rerolledDK lol
Not really, your turd was real. The Chameleon was not
Best comment of 2021
Thanks for the laugh LOL
So wild how you two fell into this drama and ended up being journalists on a degree that is very rarely reserved for video game journalists. Mad respect. Hopefully it doesn't stress you guys out too much. Loads of appreciation for your integrity. Like and subscribe indeed!!!
"I'm not gonna invest in another Coleco Chameleon."
The worst part about this is how hard it will make it for anyone trying to do something similar.
I just wanted to give Pat and Ian a big thumbs up for coverage of all of this. Thank you guys for watching out for those of us in the hobby. You guys are awesome.
This has been my favourite ongoing news story regarding anything in the longest time. I simply could not wait to see what kind of underhanded bullshit they were going to try to get away with next. It was such a wildly entertaining ride. To that end, I'm really sad to see it end. Oh well, guess I'll just have to go back to actually playing games...
You could make a drinking game out of how many times Pat says "it gets better" in this clip.
Two guys, one CUP.
2guys1chameleon
I bet mike shit his pants when that comparison picture was posted on the Facebook page. Like "oh shit fuck damn!!!" LOL
+Ryan Amberger lol
+Ryan Amberger "WELP"
+Ryan Amberger, rather than answering people on the Retro VGS Facebook page, they just ban accounts from the page.
beautiful. I've been blasted by you tubers for your exact comments. I appreciate you both, sincerely. keep it up guys! njhc
The Chameleon story might not have had the longevity of the Amico, but man they packed in some great high spots that will probably never be topped.
I’m here because I am preparing myself for the Amico fallout!
lol. This was recommended to me by RUclips after watching Amico clips.
Well this video is a bit bittersweet. It's nice to hear that this "system" if you could even call it that is finally dead. However, these videos covering the great tale of the Coleco Chameleon were some of my favorite the podcast has ever done. In this scenario I'd have to reverse the old saying being "I love to see you go, but hate to watch you leave". It truly was a Chameleon, a SNES/capture card changing its skin to look like something else. RIP
***** Yeah the Chameleon is the opposite of that lol
Thanks for the good words guys, beers on me. Feel free to stop by The Jag Bar any time.
Thats awesome! LOL Why yes, we do serve Atari Drinxs.
It's like if Red Green made a console.
+Orion Ake (Handlebar-Orion X) Keep your joystick on the ice.
SuperDashRendar "Ya know r ight around the holidays, everybody's scramblin' around trying to get the best deal on the latest Xbox-Station U 360 2.0 3D Turbo edition, but why the heck do ya need yer game console to play Blu Rays and go online and cook ya toast fer breakfast? Back in my day, all we needed was just a cartridge, a simple gaming console, and an old TV tuned to channel 3. Because if you went to 99, things didn't turn out too great. But collecting old consoles from back in the day can be expensive! That's where our old friend and handyman's secret weapon duct tape comes in.
All you need to do is take apart an old SNES junior, it doesn't need to be the whole kit n' kaboodle, just the game slot and power switch, rip the guts out and fasten it in tight to this here Jaguar casing, theere we are, and well lookie there. Merry christmas. Let's test her out!" *VRRRRR CRASH* "...Well, just consider this beta testing! And remember. If women don't find ya handsome, they should at least find ya handy"
Glad Coleco pulled the license on this sham!
Coleco Chameleon project has terminated, Ruko!
I'm kind of a bit sad, that this has come to an end. Was looking forward to my weekly dose of Coleco Chameleon crap.
There should be an Documentary Film, i am not joking, i'd pay to watch it.
OMG. I'm a filmmaker and was thinking this too a few months ago when I first came across this story!
Great minds! :D
I would back the shit out of that Kickstarter
Glad to see Pat be level-headed and not be ragey here. His previous video about this console gave me that impression and inclined me to think that this video would just be 28 more minutes of him ranting and saying FU many times. That shows professionalism in my opinion.
+electricmastro I'd also say that there's a level of catharsis from seeing it finally, really, and truly be dead where ranting and swearing isn't needed anymore.
+Fygee this
Coming soon, The RCA RetroStudio III.
Fairchild Channel G
+MrSlashStudios AstrocadeX
In retrospect, I hope it goes full Chinese knockoff with the next name.
The Nesrentdue Game Center!
Magnavox Iliad (even though it would have come before then Odyssey)
Rated J for Jack
That would just make it even more retro. Well played, sir.
I'm glad pat has a pair of balls and stands by his word!!!!
I think the defense some people are making about there being no victims is highly flawed. We now know some of the lengths this guy went to in trying to market his non-existent product. Do you think a guy like that paid for any of the initial costs of having the shells made, or anything like that? Someone paid for it. This also hit people's reputation, fairly or unfairly, it's still a price that was paid.
We never would have uncovered all this twenty years ago but between everyone on forums and communities(including youtube) it all came out in the open. You guys at Punk Effect put in a huge effort to cover this properly....good work guys.
+Dungeonjay Don't forget Atari Age...
@@psygnosisowl8036 6 years later, and how the tides have turned as history repeats itself. I wish I *could* forget that website....
I doubt Coleco dumped equity into this, usually it would just be a licensing deal and they would get an upfront amount and a percentage of eventual sales only. Plus they are owned now by investors only who most likely wouldn't touch something like this until proof of concept and a prototype which would be at a low price to produce similar to the Coleco Flashback consoles which look like they cost $5.00 to make.
+Roger Sherman A lot of work goes into those flashback consoles. There's a ton of legwork that has to be done to make those happen.
If I had the cash I'd do something similar. A couple of lawyers, an electrical engineer, and an experienced B2B sales guy are all the core staff you really need. The rest is freelance as you need it.
Anyone else going through these old videos now that the final episode of the podcast is out?
You guys always hit the nail on the head. Many thanks for many many hours of great discussion.
This has inspired me to create my own retro video game system. It will use the Neo Geo AES's shell and Atari 5200's controllers, and it will play all new 20-bit games! Yes, that's right, forget the 8-bit era or the 16-bit era, this system will create a new era! Do the math!
. . . now where is my Genesis mark 3 and that old video card from my Windows 3.1 computer . . .
I feel like you're missing the mark. weren't neo geo games marketed as 24bit?
+Douglas Estep NEW ERA!
you know after all the dust has settled time passed etc. I had some showerthoughts
and to me, now it feels more like Mike Orchestrated everything. Toy fair, lies by Lee, etc to go to KS without a proto and fund it there.
He lied to get third parties to vouch for him. Coleco, Piko, Collectorvision, and make his project more credible.
+PikoInteractive I think thats EXACTLY what happened. I'd bet he used money from the retro mag kickstarter to buy those jag toolings too. He's said that he didnt and I doubt anyone could prove it but if they could I'm pretty sure that constitutes fraud in the worst case and slimeball shit in the best case.
+PikoInteractive This actually happens a lot on Kickstarter. That's why they've started closing down projects that don't have viable prototypes.
+PikoInteractive Yeah, that seems to be what's going on. A lot of people got FUCKED by Kennedy. Hopefully you guys can recover from this and keep the business moving. I've done some business with you, and I can tell you that I like the work you do. I plan to do more business with you guys in the future, and look forward to seeing more of your games on SNES and Genesis.
I thought you had dropped support after the first board scam. I remember you talking about it in the Digital Press thread. Did Mike rope you back in for support? Or were you just getting unfairly associated with the Toy Fair scam for providing the test cart?
OMG there comments about their Nintendo Power magazine killed me. LOL
I love your podcast. Thank you for doing what you do
on a different look pat ur almost at 200k subs. congratz
I had a chance to visit the old St-Ambroise building where Coleco was for many years... hard to imagine Donkey kongs, Colecovisions, cab patch kids and the ADAM were all Montreal-made products..... There is a display in the building in honor of Coleco. It is all super expensive hipster lofts now
Failing was harder than succeeding. They blew it nonetheless.
I'm sorry to say I was friends with Mike (at one point). He wanted to promote my RUclips channel, and would compensate me if I promoted his video game auction site at the start of my videos, which I did. He would also promote the show on his message forum. After some time, I stopped promoting his Gamegavel site. I never received any profit, but then I never really cared. The idea was to spread the word about the show, not to get rich.
Then hearing about his Coleco system, I remained neutral. I even met up with him in a NY bar/restaurant after the Toy fair showing. He seemed confident the system would take off. He talked to me about helping with this and other projects. I said I was "busy with the show", and that was that. Some time had passed, the system/concept went nowhere, and he cut off all ties with me, even went as far as to unfriend me on Facebook (eh, it's Facebook, big deal).
That's my small dealing with Mike Kennedy. I'm glad I only invested a small portion of my time with him. Imagine if I spent money.
And to think this strategy was used again a couple of years later for the Amico
To quote the Megaman Sprite Comic Game:
"i am honestly glad hes dead"
what
This has been a fantastic voyage!! Thanks Pat and Ian. And always remember kids, DON'T FUCK WITH FRANK!
+Underpantsniper slide slide slippity slide
Woot! :) Ding Dong the chameleon is dead as a doorknob, except the door knob has a working prototype!
Pat and Ian, thanks for warning gamers about shady people like this Mike guy. I saw Gamester81 video "apology" in which he tells Pat to get over it because no one lost any money, so I felt compelled to come here and post in support of you guys. Attempted fraud should draw outrage, especially when it's being perpetrated against members of your community (retro gamers).
I had to check my Atari Jaguar that there are no pc capture cards in :)
You should take a look at Zimba3000! The Coleco Chameleon was supposed to have an already made prototype before KevTris left. He already succeeded in making working cores for a lot of systems and his work was supposed to be used in the Chameleon until he got too fed up and left. Now he started a thread about it and everything looks interesting!
Take a drink every time Ian says "umm". You will be shit faces in 2 sentences! lol
Hahahaha The shadowy figure, Mr. Lee whispers from the darkness that we haven't haven't seen the last of him...
I wonder which cave Mike is hiding in?
+The Obsolete Geek It's not a cave, he's buried in the hole he dug himself into.
+SaviorGabriel Absolutely. It's gonna be hard to do any projects in the future when people can't trust the guy.
He's with Mister Lee
This has unfolded exactly the way many people in the Retro camp had told me/us it wouldn't. I wonder how many people he had trolling social media. They seem to be gone now.
Again: I would love to see an expose documentary on this that wraps it all up in a concise, well produced independent feature film. And: We will probably never see those Jaguar molds ever again put to *good* use (instead of a con like this). Somebody better offer him a gorrilian dollars for them if no other reason than to save them.
Watching this as a non native english speaker i jumped when Ian said:"..this is where streams get crossed.", Youre not telling me, that this Ghostbusters referencing stylistic figure found its way into your daily vocabulary? Hahaha
And the Facebook page is gone...
Not sure why, but I've always just watched these videos until today when I finally subscribed to the podcast. Not sure why I didn't realize it was a podcast on iTunes until now... but this is great content for the gaming community.
I like that you attempt to muffle/distance your coughs, Ian. You would be surprised how many people have zero mic etiquette... podcast or not.
I mute my mic and hope it helps! My throat is generally dry and scratchy after my shift.
I'm its all over now, but sad too that won't be any more "updates" regarding this strange project.
Fear and loathing in retroland. Thanks for covering this trip.
I've been suspicious from the get-go and the video confirms everything that I thought about the Chameleon. Well done gentlemen. BTW I'm MegaManFan on AA so the many mentions of the site brought a huge smile to my face.
i can't believe that the podcast has devoted so much time to this debacle. i haven't heard about the system anywhere else so its really small time news. but now maybe they can move onto something else with more mainstream appeal.
I love listening to you two rant about this topic. I hope there's a new development in the story just to see how worked up you two will get.
As soon as my laptop's fixed I will do a full video on how upset I am with the state of gaming today. The PS4 and Xbox One require constant updating and that takes forever, too many games now are just £50 demos that bully you into buying £100 worth of DLC, many handheld games now are smartphone titles which are free to download but try to con you out of £5 here and £10 there, and I was REALLY hoping that the Coleco Chameleon would successfully provide us with an update-free alternative to the PS4 and Xbox One. I have been putting off my "everything wrong with 2010s gaming" video forever and the fall of the Chameleon is why I want to get working on it now. One thing holding me back is that because the 2010s is such a bad gaming decade, I don't know where to start.
The timing and details of the formation of the LLC is pretty interesting. That was probably the first overlooked red flag for his "partners" in this venture. What a shame for all the people who invested actual mindshare into the project. Hard lessons...
22:26-22:33 That is basically MysteriousMrEnter in a nutshell when it boils down to his upcoming show Growing Around. Meanwhile, the dude does NOTHING but review what he calls "Animated Atrocities," and talk down to his audience/refuse any of their requests!
MR enter rox
when has that ever happened?
Plus he's already explained many times why he doesn't do certain requests.
And really? Show me one show he's reviewed as an atrocity that wasn't bad.
You sound like he ragged on something you like and you're pissy about it.
This is just me, but the biggest red flag was them using the Atari Jaguar case for a Coleco-based system. Y'all guys already know about the Coleco/Atari lawsuit issue I'm sure. For those who are unfamiliar with it, Atari and Coleco had a long standing issue with each other, especially since Coleco made an attachment for the ColecoVision that allowed people to play Atari games on their system, with Atari suing them because they believe they used Atari parts to create the attachment (which the case was dropped due to the fact that Coleco could prove that the parts used to make it could be found at any Radio Shack at the time).
But to me, I get that Atari sold the mold for the Atari Jaguar to a dental company so they could use them to create cases for dental equipment. However, I think Atari would have an issue of another video game company using their Atari Jaguar case for another system. It would be like Ford selling the molds to create the shell of a Mustang and Toyota buying those molds and releasing a new car using those molds under a new name.
However, that's just me going off of what I know, and I could very well be wrong.
Atari doesn't exist anymore. It's just a name. A name that has been owned by Midway, THQ, and a few others
+David Garcia that does not mean that the company that now owns the trademark doesn't have trademark on the Atari Jaguar and its case design in regards to other gaming systems using it.
+Daniel S that's true, but they don't. When you sell the molds you sell the design aspects. Also those trademarks have expired by now anyway. Just like the nes snes and Genesis
David Garcia It was still a red flag to me because it was in a Jaguar case. That'd never change my view on that.
Daniel S nothing wrong with that i guess
I remember seeing the Snes mini on sale at Target when it first came out and now I feel old
very informative video guys, love the podcast, take care
If they really wanted to create a believable fake prototype that could be shown of video or pictures, they could have just grabbed a raspberry pi, reskinned RetroPi, then put it in a black Jaguar case.
+Darko But that would require software skills. They duct taped a snes into a jag shell, and used an sd card snes rom loader in the cart slot. They couldnt even reskin the sd cart's menu. Your suggestion would be like rocket science to them. :P
They need to do like a TurboGrafix16 portable. And then have inexpensive write-protected SD cards, customized to look like cartridges. And focus on the hidden-gems and big-time games. Kind like that recent portable that got kickstarted.
Holy crap this was six years ago? I'm getting old yo
Funny I could have built this Coleco prototype in about 2 weeks with either a Raspberry Pi with KODI, or an Android quad core. Stupid is as stupid gets and there are crooks out there that will sell you the second coming only to leave you broke at the end. Stay gaming my friends.
I predict the same thing happening with the Atari VGS.
I'm almost certain at some point in the last week Ian was thinking to himself, ok so what am I gonna bring to drink during this podcast...well ive been drinking water, but I think this week needs a beer...lol I don't blame you :)
See I imagined it more like a retro gaming crime lab, where the CSI's put the capture card up to the picture and were like "it's a perfect match!" then one of them made an amazing pun and put sunglasses on
I'm really looking forward to that Sinclair handheld that's hopefully coming out . I will get one if I can find one after they've been released.
I wanna make a playlist of videos based around modern failed consoles. This stuff is just super entertaining. Particularly the drama, haha. Right now I'm thinking of adding this one, the Ouya and the ZX Spectrum Vega+.
If anyone can think of more recommendations do let me know!
the gamers ourselves should design our own console. of course making it retro-styled. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to render in Internet capabilities either
I think it's gonna come to that after consoles like Sony and Mircosoft just seem like there beating a dead horse.I have a PS4 and Xbox one and use them from time to time(maybe I'm just getting bored with crappy games) but something needs to be done.....radically different
I can't help but to think of Action 52's story and how it was ran when I think of the Coleco Chameleon.
bwa-uh bwa-uh bwa-uh! Emergency podcast session inbound!
Been following you guys since the Retro VGS was announced a while back. I actually have a single issue of Retro Magazine and it was nothing that I couldn't find online. The illustration work was nice, but nothing I haven't seen from other fan art.
While I wouldn't mind the idea of a homebrew market for niche video game players, It's a tremendous uphill battle to make a retro style gaming system. We have 3 major consoles and PC gaming becomes more popular, all of which you can make retro style games without cartridges.
Most systems like this proposed system are just clone consoles, and those suffice enough for the retro market of used games. It'd be interesting to have "cartridge games" on cheap 8 gig SD cards with online update capacity and HDMI output. Boom, there is your "cartridge" game system for today's market.
These guys associated with the project should dedicate their energy elsewhere. I have a hunch they will try again, which only digs their failure hole deeper. They should learn from their mistakes. Just make their own indie game studio and make retro style games without all the unnecessary hardware and development nightmares.
There is a way these guys can come out looking okay, just stop trying to sell something that we don't want and what you can't deliver.
love the show
Good job guys.Ian and Pat, always insightful.
All I can say is that I miss the old days of how games used to be back in the day, I also am that way with movies. I did not know anything about this until this video now I want to know more about it.
kinda makes me sad. i think this was a good idea. cartridges should be optional. there should be internet and a hard drive option. maybe this could be revived as an open source/open hardware design. that is the way cores will actually get made (just look at emulation)
I'm just waiting for that dental equipment company to reclaim their mold back.
IAN, i don't know if you've heard, been trying to let yall know, the depew skating rink/arcade has closed down in buffalo, it will be missed, think yall should do a cast on it
NO! MORE CHAMELEON! I've had to much fun following this dog & pony show.
I was only following this to see how down it goes.
People need to do their dill doagance.
hurkamur1 Beautiful
Industry standard to have kids playing a prototype in promotional videos, be it direct to consumer or fundraising. Are people this outraged when a Marvel teaser trailer airs?
How are "We made new connections at the faire" and "They no longer need kickstarter to fund this" at all exclusive? sounds like it makes sense to me.
Can't wait for the documentary to come out. Phil Fish style.
I interacted a little with Mike earlier on ChasetheChuckWagon and never really got the impression he would undercut someone without good cause.
That being said, I'm an entrepreneur myself and feel like it gives me a bit of a unique outlook on this. Startups have this problem I don't think a lot of people appreciate that that they take A LOT OF WORK, yet so few people actually DO work.
It feels to me that the biggest problem Mike is probably facing was a bunch of people who said "I wanna do it" and produced nothing.
That being said, it *IS* a foul trying to present things as actual prototypes. Mike could have said "This 'prototype' is what we're shooting for" and been very clear it didn't have the hardware intended for release or anything resembling it. In trying to get something going, it is SO IMPORTANT to have something tangible to touch and see. Its crossing the ethical boundaries when you don't acknowledge what kind of work you still need.
Even the clear Colleco is truly forgivable with the capture card as long as he would have disclaimed "This is what we envision it to look like".
Lots of people have built a game console just for fun or as a school project. Most of them are add-ons for ARM dev. kits or Arduinos. But none of them were commercially released and advertised as being more than the sum of their parts.
The early adopters for the Coleco Chameleon were highly intelligent software and hardware developers. There was no reason for Mr. Mike Kennedy to prey upon those whom were trying to help him. Especially considering that the retro-gaming target audience is so forgiving and apologetic.
I feel like we're jumping to conclusions on that. I've worked on 5 different startups now and each of them had highly intelligent people on staff; two projects had those prodigies that graduated from college at 16 or 18.
If there's one thing I learned over these ventures its that just because you're smart doesn't mean it translates to doing good work. Work ethic is lost on a lot of people; especially in startups.
Early adopters are the people who are willing to BUY a product at the very beginning of the product life cycle; ie. when it is released.
I have no idea if the people working on the Coleco Chameleon were intelligent. I do not want to go there.
Mr. Mike Kennedy was very lucky. He was able to gain a lot of interest with very little work on his part. In the end, he managed to sabotage his relationship with supporters and friends.
Good luck on your startups.
I appericiate your support and hope offering some perspective helps a bit.
From my experience, gaining support is easy, getting people who want to help is easy. Making it happen; that's the hard part.
You need to find people who are VERY passionate about the product to work on it, aren't hurting for money and their source of money isn't time consuming.
In my experience, the person or company who does the work gets it to market even if the product isn't nearly as good as it could have been with more intelligent bodies working on it.
Another good example of this MarioCrossOver / Exploding Rabbit. The guy who built MarioCrossOver did it with extreme passion. Brought on people with the skills needed, but lacked people with the right mindset to do a startup AND ability to pull it through.
Even going back to Henry Ford, he had to try to start Ford several times (I think 13?) before it finally took off.
True entrapenuers are a rare animal and I honestly feel like the political climate over the last 16 years (perhaps 24) has made them/us an endangered species.
I rencetly moved into something of a "Entrepreneur's Climate" with people whoa re a whole bunch more like minded about startups. I hope thats the stepping stone I needed personally to make things happen.
As for Mike Kennedy's venture and Jay Pavlina; I truly feel they were good people with good intentions who generally brought into the wrong people and had to make tough, unpopular decisions. I've been there too.
counselors corner: where do i get an fpga?
U guys seem more motivated n amped than now. Now your all like yep we made it, ahhh, whats next? Good podcast fellas :)
And then everyone learned from this and...
Nice headphones guys...lol
Quite fond of AT headphones myself, including those m50s.
As for the actual topic of the video, their idea of FPGA-based limitless and flawless emulation was an impossibility from the very start. Throw in the idea of actually WANTING a new cartridge-based system (wtf? why?)...
I honestly thought this was a a joke when i first heard about it.
Damn, if I had known that he was at the so cal retro gaming expo I would have gone up to him and told him off
thanks pat for the best birthday present
Again, thanks for holding a light up to these shady dealings. Sadly, I agree with Ian that Mike could crawl up again, maybe not as the face of a new venture to fleece the retrogaming community, but somewhere in the background.
Be vigilant; when something sounds too good to be true, it might be too good to be true.
now we can use that jaguar shell for what it was really meant for. My new toilet seat
I wonder what pat majored in in college, I always enjoy the arguments posed on this podcast
This guy just kept digging the hole deeper. I have never seen such a story where people immediately picked up on the BS he was telling. It's like I'm watching a dark comedy.
Somewhere Mike Kennedy is weeping silently playing his fully working FPGA core running at crystal clear 1080p...not.