Tito Santana on The "Lost" Intercontinental Title Switch vs Don Muraco (Not Filmed on PURPOSE?)
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Tito Santana on The "Lost" Intercontinental Title Switch vs Don Muraco (Not Filmed on PURPOSE?)
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Tito was always over more than the WWF featured him IMO. EVen in 1993 as El Matador, he got huge pops and "Tito!" chants would break out. Fans loved him, they just didn't use him.
I couldn't agree more. Tito was pretty hot in terms of being over.
But I can also see why WWF didn't want to push him more, because he wasn't the best promo, and he was given the gimmick of a bland white meat baby face. But how over he was in Strike Force shows how he could have been if he had an amazing gimmick.
And no, El Matador was not the way to go. Although I sorta liked it.
As far as Tito selling more shirts than Hulk? Doubtful. If someone (Heenan) told Tito that, it was a rib. He was over, no doubt about it, but no way on Earth he was outselling Hogan. But Tito is totally right that so many people could have had Hogan's spot. However, Hogan DID run with the ball. Not everybody would.
@@JeremiahEcks777 Tito was more over with Hispanics than Hulk was with white non-Hispanics. And I would imagine Tito was also more over with white non-Hispanics than Hulk was with Hispanics. So I can see in areas like NYC, California, Florida, or Texas where Tito would outsell Hulk, even if only marginally. Especially during his feud with Valentine.
@@michaelkelly4613 I've got to be honest but I really struggle to believe that. If WWF felt Tito was that hot, he wouldn't have been a glorified jobber to the stars for a lot of his WWF career.
I'm not disputing that Tito wasn't over. He was. And he was an excellent and perhaps underrated worker. And clearly WWF had faith in him to give him two titles back when titles meant something.
But more over than Hogan, even in specific areas? No way.
Sorry, but no. As kids we changed the channel whenever Tito was having matches, post Strike Force. He just didn't stand out among guys like Jake, Rick Rude, Macho Man etc. He was the good guy version of Greg Valentine, the product of an earlier era.
They used him but damn everybody couldn't be hulk Hogan
I went to an AWA house show in Austin, MN in late 1981, and the main event was Hulk Hogan and Tito Santana vs. Jesse Ventura and Adrian Adonis. Strange to think less than three years later Hulk, and Tito would be the WWF's top two singles champions.
I tried to get Hulk's autograph before the match, they used to let kids go up to the ring before the matches and get autographs, and he said "I'll get you after the match little buddy". I knew that was bullshit because they never signed autographs after the match, so I was kind of pissed lol
Adrian and Jesse went to WWF too
I always loved his sister, Arriba McEntire.
One of Heenans classic quotes from WM 8. Memories.
Heard "Will you stop" in Gorilla's voice in my mind instantaneously.
I miss don....he had his moments
If Tito Santana doesn't start aging, I'm going to drive a wooden stake thru his heart.
What a great guy - such a gentleman and a great worker
Tito Santana was BY FAR my fave. wrestler back in the day!!!!! Thanks for this interview!!!
For all you geniuses who say Tito didn't have a big merch footprint or wasn't massively over. Here's a stone cold fact, arguably in the most popular era, Vince put gold on this guy for freaking 5 straight years from 84-88 (2 IC's/Tag title)! Besides Hogan, NO ONE else can boast this in the WWF 80s. If you don't like him fine, but it doesn't change that Tito was huge. BTW - thanks for this awesome interview!
Captain Lou ate the tape!
What was there not to like about Tito Santana great performer good body good storyteller one of the best punches in the business diverse crowd drawer not a problem child and a true baby face at heart! !! 👍💯😁
This is what I love about the internet. Tito tells the truth. We all went to the shows in the 80s and no one cared about Hoganm most of the crowds booed him out of the building, espically in Toronto and Boston where he was hated the most. We all cared about workrate. We wanted good technical matches and adored Jim Cornette and Bret Hart. Tito was a god to us!
The loudest pops I ever heard in the Boston Garden for any event was for Hulk Hogan.
@@bigblueGiants and wrestlemania 18 in Toronto
I would watch Bret Hart in almost any match over almost any match Hogan had any day...
But if someone tries to rewrite history and claim Hogan wasn't over, that fans only wanted a strong work rate... bull s**t quite frankly.
In WWF 1995-1997, you want to talk work rate? You had prime Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, prime Undertaker, prime Scott Hall, Sean Waltman, Hakushi, Steve Austin before injury, Owen Hart, Davey Boy Smith, Dustin Runnells, Brian Pillman, Mick Foley... you want to talk work rate? THAT's a hall of fame of workrate right there.
And the program sucked.
Because the thing with wrestling is, it's not about workrate alone. It never was and it never will be. Wrestling is a variety show. You need those who are high work rate like Bret to carry the mid card and make main events special attractions from time to time, but you need those who are hotdoggers and grandstanders who's push depends on their charisma and connecting with the audience.
Wrestling at the moment has the best workrate it ever has, but wrestling, even with more options than ever, isn't doing half as well as it was under Hogan and Flair in the 80's. And frankly 90% of wrestlers now are infinitely more watchable than Hogan in the ring. But Hogan knew how to work the crowd, work the gimmick *and* was protected and projected properly by wealthy people. Nowadays, you might be able to work the gimmick but crappy scripting and stop / start pushing will kill you cold, since booking is a lost art.
Also history disagrees with you as Hogan was cheered massively in Toronto for WM6. And it didn't look piped in to me. According to Edge, it wasn't. According to Edge the crowd was hot for Hogan AND Warrior.
Santana vs Valentine and Santana vs Orndorff were great feuds that could headline cards back then.
Loved that the IC belt was a legitimate B-card main event match for years.
Pre-85 I could buy Tito being more over than Hulk in certain areas of the country, but after 1985, Hulkamania was as big a part of 80s pop culture as MTV, Madonna and Miami Vice. No way he sold more tshirts.
Tito probably did very well on the house show sales…. If you are going to a show and Hogan was not headlining it, you would show support for your “guy” on the night… when they showed Tito matches on tv the would always pan into the crowd of someone wearing a Tito t-shirt, so I could kind of agree with that he outsold Hogan (but in terms of the B-show and A-shows hogan was not at)
I still don't understand how Tito Santana never became a world champion in WF and I feel the same way about Don Morocco and Roddy Piper
Back in those days the belt didn’t change hands often so only a select few were world champion
Tito said it would've helped him "get over" but jeesh! I remember Tito be "OVER" Big Time! And he was over while being in the midst of what, To quote the late great American Dream Dusty Rhodes, in midst of 'Yellow Finger Mania'
I saw Tito a few times during his run with the IC Belt and he was always Over w/ A Capital 'O' and the crowd loved him. I always rooted for Heels but Man, Tito + Ricky Steamboat were those cats you had mad respect for because they Wrestled NWA style ('cus that's where they learned their craft) unlike the rest of the WWF - especially 'Yellow Finger'. I'd've liked to see Tito do a run as a Heel.
Being from the Boston area, they didn’t start filming in the Garden until May of 1985 when Vince struck a deal with NESN. That being said, there was always a belief, like Tito said, that several of the higher ups didn’t think he had that “it” factor to carry the belt. They believed anyone other than Snuka winning the IC title would’ve been a failure because Snuka was so over. It ended up working great with Tito and he was reliable on top of that, where Snuka wasn’t ( along with his legal issues.)
My friends brother Chris RIP, was at the Garden the night he lost the IC Title to Savage
Why are some of Tito's big victories not recorded? Even when he beat Undertaker that was not filmed on television and was only shown years later on RUclips? Also him beating Papa Shango at WM 9 was shown in a dark match? Why
ECW made an attempt at restoring history, when they had Tito pin Muraco for the ECW HW title in August 1993 and was televised.
The Undertaker result was never meant to be shown on US tv, and it was probably early 00’s before people were aware of it… the Papa Shango WM9 result was documented in the WWE magazine, and the footage of that match only surfaced a few years ago (it’s basically Jim Ross doing sound tests for the majority of it)
@@clark82 Yeah well it seems like the sentiment was we can't show Tito winning on TV or on a PPV because it might help him get over and God forbid they should let that happen. The Undertaker match was actually really good but the WWF wasn't going to allow footage of Tito pinning the Undertaker cleanly people might actually start getting behind Tito if that happened.
I got to see the Tito vs Undertaker match back in 92. The whole show was released here in Canada at video rental stores.
@@clark82 Ya, The Undertaker was still being promoted as Undefeated for his match with Hulk Hogan at Survivor Series 1991.
Tito Santana is the 1st individual to give the undertaker his 1st loss in the WWF
By pinfall
So when the undertaker 1st came and they kept saying hes undefeated Well he wasn't
Footage of when Tito first won the belt is on the history of the intercontinental championship coliseum video
Don!!! How I miss the Magnificent one.
Good ol Chico Santana ie Jesse lol
Tito is now a retired school teacher.
I saw this match at the Boston Garden prior to the Garden having taped WWF shows that aired on NESN. Like I commented in a previous WSI that you had with Muraco, when we saw Kevin Dunn at ringside with a handheld camera, we thought that either Muraco was going to get fired or a kayfabe injury was going to happen because titles would only change in-line with the TV Tapings (Saturday prior to TV at the Philadelphia Spectrum, Monday prior to TV at MSG or at the TV Taping itself in Allentown or Hamburg). The only time that titles changed at house shows was usually when someone was getting fired.
Being from Massachusetts I remember all these 1980's house shows were taped like MSG. What BS they gave poor Tito.
I was at the Boston Garden that night. They didn't turn on the TV lights and start recording until the last match, which was Tito vs Muraco. So they could not have run out of tape. My guess is that the match and the finish were so BAD (they really were) that they decided to just show brief clips of the match.
Muraco has said they botched the finish
@@tomh1593 Wasn't Muraco's foot on the bottom rope when he was pinned?
I have to respectfully disagree with Tito about why Hogan was Vince's top guy. Tito's argument - that Hogan was simply chosen by Vince and pushed to the moon, and that could have been anyone else - completely fails to take into account how hugely over Hogan already was before he came back into the WWF.
Hulkamania was in full bloom thanks to the fame from Rocky III (he appeared on the Tonight Show in 1982, for god's sake), and the run in the AWA where he exploded as a babyface. That's what Vince wanted: A larger-than-life performer with an already-high profile that he could strap the WWF to and make the big national push. None of what happened with WWF would have happened without Hogan, period. No disrespect to Tito, but he was nowhere near the level of superstar Hogan was. Most aren't.
As far as the issue of his merchandise selling more than Hogan's, I'm sure there may have been points here and there where his stuff did outsell everyone else's. But consistantly, over time, Hogan was the untouched champ of merchandise sales, until Austin came along.
It's hard to overstate how over all these guys from the 80s and 90s were and still are. Tito was and is a legend. That said...
You're spot on about Tito. Great talent, great babyface, super popular. Not on Hogan's level, and that's no insult or knock at Tito. Tito had a career to be envied by most, and deserves to be remembered as an all-time great midcard/upper midcard babyface.
I agree with you about the push thing, too. I wonder what would have happened if Vince had chosen Tito instead of Bret in 1992 (assuming that story is true). It's pure speculation, but I don't see Tito Santana being as over as Bret Hart or as legendary as Bret Hart. Maybe he would have been, with the push behind him. Interesting food for thought, but no way to know.
Yes and no. No wrestler can hit that level by themselves. Professional wrestling a team sport. You need the right booking,, the proper amount of airtime (but not too much), the production tean know what camera angles and such to make YOU PERSONALLY look your best, and a million other things. All those people you "beat" while getting over, needed to lose to get you over. I know you realize all this, Im just discussing lol.
But there IS that "it" factor that many wrestlers have, but only a few have a lot of. And only a couple have it on the level of Hulk Hogan. He had that Hollywood, cross-over kind of appeal going on. When he was in Rocky, it put his name on the lips of a LOT of people that didnt even watch wrestling. And anyone that lived thru the 1980's will never forget seeing Hulk slamming the Giant. It was a B I G deal!
@@morrnmanderson7376 true but all the wrestlers became main stream names because of the main stream attention hogan brought to the wwf . he was one of the biggest main stream stars in the entire world
I had always heard Jimmy Snuka was the original choice to lead the WWF which I believe as in 1983 he was over more than anyone even Andre and Backlund but there was heavy drug and alcohol abuse and he was also a suspect in the death of his girlfriend.
It would have been a great transition if they didn’t want to go with Warrior… Tito would have been a good change of the guard!
I respectfully disagree with Tito; there was no one else but Hogan that Vince could have chosen to have that kind of impact! In life, there are certain things that happen at a certain time for a certain reason!
The guy that knew no more than one hand full of moves happens to be the guy that gets pushed cuz he's Juiced to the gills much better performers back in the day that they could have made a star out of pukeamania ran Wild! 🤔
Besides Tito's win over Muraco in February 1984 in Boston. ANOTHER Intercontinental title change ALSO WASNT filmed. Pedro Morales over Ken Patera, December 8, 1980 in New York. A tragic irony was the very night, Beatles John Lennon weas short/killed.
I’ve seen footage of the switch. Saturday morning TV showed the film. Highlights. Perhaps the footage was damaged?
How do you run out of tape
No way he sold more t-shirts than Hulk Hogan give me a break 🙄
Chico Santana
I agree. However he might be telling the truth also; he says Heenan told him this. Maybe it was a rib?
Tito was massive in the 80s not like Hogan. Then again in my opinion he put out a better product than Hogan on the mat. From an interview standpoint of course Hogan was a master.
@@gslide06 Oh, Tito is probably better pound for pound in terms of match quality but Hogan blows Tito out of the water in terms of longevity and overall popularity. Merch sales prove it.
No way he out sold Hogan,bullshit
Just tape over the prelim. matches
what date? I used to go to garden events back in the 80's.
Feb 11, 1984
I’m not saying for sure but maybe these guys could of got over who never had the world belt
Paul Orndorff
jYD
Tito Santana and a few others possibly
My ex used to frequent his wife's hair salon. She had family in the business
I heard Hogan was ducking Tito anyway!
They don't air the finish, but the highlights and Tito celebrating starts about 4:00
ruclips.net/video/ovYSaCtaY74/видео.html
Chico Santana
i dont think the mountie beating bret hart for the I-C belt was recorded either, at least not that i remember
They showed clip of the match on royal rumble 92, not sure if the whole match was taped
It was recorded, but from a ring side handheld camera, and was more so the final minutes and the aftermath with Mountie using his shock stick on Bret and Piper coming to the rescue
For years the story has been that they botched the finish of the match. I think Muraco said that too.
I think Muraco said he botched it in his eyes but it still went over okay to the crowd. He was his own worst critic, and himself, like Tito was tremendous.
Lost?! Bro, I just watched the episode of Championship Wrestling where they show the finish. This is absolutely 100% recorded, and Tito was ALL over the TV show in early 84, so his theory is completely false.
Edit: I was mistaken, they air highlights and Tito's celebration, Vince tells us at some point it was the flying forearm.
The Coliseum VHS tape History of the IC title only shows some of the match and Tito holding the title belt. I just looked at 2/25/84 Championship Wrestling episode. Again ONLY a few minutes of match is shown and Title entering the ring with the belt after the (pin/win)
@@davidfrederick6003 yes, as I stated in the edit. But that's still different than running out of tape or losing it as they seem to say here.
From what many interviews with Tito and Muraco said it was a sunset flip coming out of the corner which Tito came up with. I saw this ending with both of them on a house show later when they were trying to make Muraco face
Yea, because in the 1980s and 90s every kid was wearing an "Ariba Santana" shirt to school.
That's accurate, there was a lot of Tito shirts at the house shows. And the crowd pops evidence that fact further.
@@gslide06 delusional