So many Bruckner reviews over the past months because of his birthday...but at the end of the day, if you are buying your FIRST set, would you still go with Skrowaczewski and/or Jochum (Dresden)?
If only Bruckner had not only made final decisions about the final form of his symphonies but held a giant bonfire and destroyed all the superceded versions. We may regret the loss of Sibelius' 8th Symphony but at least he didn't leave sketches hanging around for the Anthony Paynes of this world to meddle with and produce bogus versions.
Poor Bruckner. Wonderful music, beset with insecurities. And even more indifferent performance's. Thanks David... I tend to have individual symphonies done by individual artists. ...
I have the excellent Skrowaczewski set, so I'm not sure I need this. At some point I may want to hear the 9th with the Te Deum finale, just to see how that works, but at the moment I'm fine with enjoying Bruckner in the best versions. I have noticed something. In spite of the mammoth structures and sheer length of this music, Bruckner seems very friendly to musicians. He avoids unfriendly key signatures. The wind parts don't require circular breathing. Rhythms are relatively straightforward. There's nothing virtuosic here, and he seems to have been writing to provoke strong feelings rather than to dazzle the audience. Especially compared to Wagner, whose string parts are essentially hundreds of pages of concerto-style writing without a break. As long as you are a proficient player who can count, the task at hand hardly seems daunting. If a performance goes awry, it seems the sole blame lays with the conductor. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Hello Mr. Hurwitz. I noticed that you haven’t mentioned Simone Young’s Bruckner cycle yet. Will you possibly catch up on that? As an absolute Bruckner enthusiast, I would be very happy about that.
So I know of your video of Bruckner's preferred versions as per his will: watched and inwardly digested! What would be nice to have is a Dave's Howevers of those preferred versions, so that a person can readily acquire 9 top tier recordings of all the "right" versions. Just a suggestion 😅
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, but that requires you to view multiple videos and wade through each of them to the end to get to the 'however' choice. In the style of the 'greatest recordings ever', where only the 'howevers' are presented as something of a fait accompli, I was hoping you might consider a single video declaring what the 9 best recordings of all the right versions were. Just the punchlines, basically. Fair enough if not...
I personally think that we should be super grateful for what Dave has already given us and be ready to invest time to sift through his videos to find his “however” choices for Bruckner symphonies. I’d prefer that he develops new videos on other repertoire, rather than repacking what he already did regarding our beloved Anton.
@libor4128 You're entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. Wanting something new doesn't mean I don't appreciate what has gone before. What you're missing is that I was _suggesting_ something new. The focus of his other videos is on the repertoire and recordings and which are the highlights of the current recorded repertoire. My suggestion was to focus on the Bruckner "versions problem" and to approach the CD catalogue _from that perspective_ . It is quite different to say, "here are 12 recordings of Symphony No. 3, and this one is the best" compared to "This is the version of Symphony No. 3 that Bruckner preferred, and this is the best recording _of that version_ ". If you can't see the difference, and that the second approach would be a new treatment of the subject, fine. But I do. And it was merely a suggestion of an idea for _Dave_ to consider, not for every man and his dog to chime in on.
The Tinter box is quite a bargain - and still available! - and quite well played & recorded... HOWEVER, you just CAN'T go wrong with either of the following superlative Bruckner cycles (you should really own both!): Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken on Oehms or Jochum/Dresden on EMI (now Warner). Happy listening!
@@gardenphoto I have all three and I still believe the Tintner versions can be enjoyed both as supplements, but also as the fine and fresh sounding versions they are.
Tintner usually opts for the “original” versions, which sometimes is OK (First, Second) and sometimes is not (oh, God, the Eighth). Those choices make the Tintner set an absolute no-go for beginners, who should learn the “usual” versions first, IMHO.
These are generally too fast for me. I don’t think brisk tempi and Bruckner usually make much sense. Tends to strip the grandeur and sense of mystery from the music.
I’ve always wondered why the ‘Gesellschaft’ nutties have been developed specifically around Bruckner.. Is it because he himself was kind of a nutjob?? With his pathological obsession with death, counting stuff or well.. liking children? I mean with enough effort you can theorize with almost any composer what the best version is. Why be so obsessed with a composer that has limited output like Bruckner 🤔
So many Bruckner reviews over the past months because of his birthday...but at the end of the day, if you are buying your FIRST set, would you still go with Skrowaczewski and/or Jochum (Dresden)?
Absolutely.
@@DavesClassicalGuidewhich ? bavarian radio or statskapelle..
I would do this at the beginning of the day too.
More editions coming. Great. Why won't they leave the poor man alone?
If only Bruckner had not only made final decisions about the final form of his symphonies but held a giant bonfire and destroyed all the superceded versions.
We may regret the loss of Sibelius' 8th Symphony but at least he didn't leave sketches hanging around for the Anthony Paynes of this world to meddle with and produce bogus versions.
Poor Bruckner. Wonderful music, beset with insecurities. And even more indifferent performance's.
Thanks David...
I tend to have individual symphonies done by individual artists. ...
Thank you very much for the review. Number 0 was written between 1 and 2.
Yes, somewhere in there! Thanks.
I have the excellent Skrowaczewski set, so I'm not sure I need this. At some point I may want to hear the 9th with the Te Deum finale, just to see how that works, but at the moment I'm fine with enjoying Bruckner in the best versions.
I have noticed something. In spite of the mammoth structures and sheer length of this music, Bruckner seems very friendly to musicians. He avoids unfriendly key signatures. The wind parts don't require circular breathing. Rhythms are relatively straightforward. There's nothing virtuosic here, and he seems to have been writing to provoke strong feelings rather than to dazzle the audience. Especially compared to Wagner, whose string parts are essentially hundreds of pages of concerto-style writing without a break. As long as you are a proficient player who can count, the task at hand hardly seems daunting. If a performance goes awry, it seems the sole blame lays with the conductor. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Hello Mr. Hurwitz. I noticed that you haven’t mentioned Simone Young’s Bruckner cycle yet. Will you possibly catch up on that? As an absolute Bruckner enthusiast, I would be very happy about that.
So I know of your video of Bruckner's preferred versions as per his will: watched and inwardly digested! What would be nice to have is a Dave's Howevers of those preferred versions, so that a person can readily acquire 9 top tier recordings of all the "right" versions. Just a suggestion 😅
Already done. Look for the Repertoire videos on the individual symphonies in the Bruckner playlist.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, but that requires you to view multiple videos and wade through each of them to the end to get to the 'however' choice. In the style of the 'greatest recordings ever', where only the 'howevers' are presented as something of a fait accompli, I was hoping you might consider a single video declaring what the 9 best recordings of all the right versions were. Just the punchlines, basically. Fair enough if not...
I personally think that we should be super grateful for what Dave has already given us and be ready to invest time to sift through his videos to find his “however” choices for Bruckner symphonies. I’d prefer that he develops new videos on other repertoire, rather than repacking what he already did regarding our beloved Anton.
@libor4128 You're entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. Wanting something new doesn't mean I don't appreciate what has gone before. What you're missing is that I was _suggesting_ something new. The focus of his other videos is on the repertoire and recordings and which are the highlights of the current recorded repertoire. My suggestion was to focus on the Bruckner "versions problem" and to approach the CD catalogue _from that perspective_ . It is quite different to say, "here are 12 recordings of Symphony No. 3, and this one is the best" compared to "This is the version of Symphony No. 3 that Bruckner preferred, and this is the best recording _of that version_ ".
If you can't see the difference, and that the second approach would be a new treatment of the subject, fine. But I do.
And it was merely a suggestion of an idea for _Dave_ to consider, not for every man and his dog to chime in on.
@@dizwell “… every man and his dog…” How nice!
So is the Tintner box set a better choice to get? is it still available?
Not necessarily.
The Tinter box is quite a bargain - and still available! - and quite well played & recorded... HOWEVER, you just CAN'T go wrong with either of the following superlative Bruckner cycles (you should really own both!): Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken on Oehms or Jochum/Dresden on EMI (now Warner). Happy listening!
@@gardenphoto I have all three and I still believe the Tintner versions can be enjoyed both as supplements, but also as the fine and fresh sounding versions they are.
Tintner usually opts for the “original” versions, which sometimes is OK (First, Second) and sometimes is not (oh, God, the Eighth). Those choices make the Tintner set an absolute no-go for beginners, who should learn the “usual” versions first, IMHO.
@@adrianosbrandao Yes, your point is very valid. When someone has become accustomed to Bruckner, Tintner is to be treasured.
These are generally too fast for me. I don’t think brisk tempi and Bruckner usually make much sense. Tends to strip the grandeur and sense of mystery from the music.
No, it doesn't.
I’ve always wondered why the ‘Gesellschaft’ nutties have been developed specifically around Bruckner.. Is it because he himself was kind of a nutjob?? With his pathological obsession with death, counting stuff or well.. liking children? I mean with enough effort you can theorize with almost any composer what the best version is. Why be so obsessed with a composer that has limited output like Bruckner 🤔
Because he opened the door with his insecurities and constant revisions.