INMUSIC IS PURSUING LEGAL ACTION AGAINST Pioneer DJ & SERATO
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2023
- Wake Up in Cleveland
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Cleveland, I have to disagree with you. You have to see this acquisition of Serato from a business perspective. Serato and Pioneer will never tell you the entire truth with a press release. Pioneer have a dominance in the market when it comes to hardware, now they’re trying to buy the number one software company. That can quickly become a monopoly. Pioneer also own Rekordbox, which compared to Serato is a less popular product.
InMusic has the right to complain. Rane and Serato have a longer business relationship than Pioneer and Serato.
I agree, but let's be clear...This isn't the Rane that we grew up with. This was also...coincidentally, an acquisition.
@DJTEDDY I agree WITH YOU 💯
@@ClevelandTerryit is not the same rane but got damn it having a rane around is key. For instance they don’t make too many tier options so generally you won’t have shortcuts or skimps on sound quality. On the other hand Pioneer have not done the same. You can pay for a 1k plus controller/mixer from them and still not have great sound quality. Remember how the old S9 sounded vs the S7. The S7 sounds way better.
I knew there were going to be changes coming with this acquisition. Also, when the news first broke I was saying though EngineOS is class leading as far as standalone software, but if it was compared to desktop software (Serato, Rekordbox, VDJ) it still lacks a lot of features and InMusic knows this. I still ultimately think EngineOS is their play longterm for InMusic, this lawsuit IMO is just to buy more development time.
Whatever assurances Serato currently give to their current partners now will be worthless once alpha Theta own them. New managers will come in and change the playing field with new rules. They will have no choice but to toe the line. I can understand in-musics actions here. The threat of legal action may result in a pre-emptive agreement to protect their interests prior to any take over.
Agree! threat of legal action may result in a pre-emptive agreement. This may also lead to an end-of-live notice to In-music for Serato suport in their products.
You are absolutely right about Engine OS, however there’s a portion of the market not concerning standalone gear; this includes Rane’s mixers and controllers and, Numark’s mixer and controllers. In addition, there might be a difference in handling to your competitor a prototype and schematics for a new mixer (the case of InMusic and Serato) and asking a certain type of hardware to be developed for your needs (the case of Apple and Samsung or LG)
Cleveland I think InMusic should do what they are doing. They don’t want there competition to have the upper hand . I believe the executive in the company who are dealing with the buying of Serato have every intention on using this to there advantage. So they paint the picture that everything is fine but they are planning.
Monopolies are bad for the consumer.
In Music is correct, the Serato engineers do have early access to their products and pioneer could quickly react to any new hardware upgrades made by their hardware competitors. I don’t really care for Serato but from a business stand point this would be a monopoly. Just because a company says it’s going to continue working with its hardware partners that doesn’t guarantee anything, they can change their mind at any time. That is definitely a competitive advantage. All it take is a new leader at a company who wants to impress their boss, those type of people could care less about ethics or who they double cross in order to climb that corporate ladder, everything is possible in the business world. The argument of in music having their own software is not valid, there’s a large segment of the DJ world that prefers Serato and In Music could be locked out without any signed agreements, verbal agreements are not worth anything. Now if Serato sold to someone like Virtual DJ then it would be a different story since that company does not compete in the hardware space.
I’m in the telecom construction space, I see this all the time. Firms who have engineering departments gain early knowledge to upcoming projects due to them working on the engineering so they essentially beat other construction firms to the punch when it comes to bidding on the construction phase. I’m surprised that In Music took this long to file a lawsuit.
@Poloword310 - I 100% completely agree with you and thought the same. Should be interesting how this plays out.
I understand what you're saying but I think we are operating in a grey area. The Denon Prime Go and Prime 2 only working with Virtual DJ comes to mind.
Thanks for taking the time to make a video on this, I always enjoy the vids Mr. Terry
I think your iPhone/Samsung screen argument isn't a 1 to 1 comparison to this situation. In order for Serato to be compatible with Hardware they do need to know lots of proprietary specs, code, etc. in order to get it running on said controller. And them having a year in advance is crucial as well to ensure it is deployed in a timely manner to the new controllers. On the other hand Samsung doesn't know anything about the new iPhone when making screens other than the size, resolution, shape of that screen. They don't have access to the other new features of the upcoming iPhone other than the specs they need to know. While Serato would most likely know everything.
Also I will argue your about making your own in house software solution isn't a good one either because Pioneer already had RekordBox. InMusic isn't suing to have RekordBox on their hardware, they are suing because AlphaTheta will now own 2 of them and would own essentially 80%+ share of that DJ market that would otherwise be a smaller percentage before this sale. And although AlphaTheta probably wouldn't get rid of Serato on other controllers, they most likely would have some features that exclusive to PioneerDJ products. It is a legitimate monopoly concern, and historically it doesn't work out in favor of the consumer when deals like this do go through. Lots of broken/empty promises
I also think that if inMusic loses this case, it might allow the door to be opened for them to pursue purchasing VirtualDJ. So it's just a win win for them, and they really just might be playing 4D chess.
Let's talk about the rest of the stuff I said. People are locked on to that apple reference :-)
@@ClevelandTerry Everything you said were very valid aside from the apple thing. As someone following the apple iPhone 15 rumours and their stuff in general, that reference didn't make sense because Apple = Pioneer with it's monopoly & popularity. In my local DJ community, I have yet see a non-pioneer controller around major spots.
Nothing about this acquisition would be good for any of Pioneers competitors. Anyone licensing the software and building products would be naive to think Pioneer wouldn't limit its availability.
Corporations are evil just look at how the major grocery stores are blaming inflation for rising food costs but at the same time they are reporting record profits.
As always, a great perspective on the situation!
This is going to be an interesting few months. Thanks CT!!!!
Surely the answer is to invest in Engine DJ and drop the use of Serato on their hardware. This could actually generate competition not stifle it.
They have a LONG way to go to make Engine as good as SDJ or VDJ. It would likely not work out well for inMusic. This is exactly the reason why they are potentially pursuing legal action.
What I find real interesting is the actual price tag for Serato, $100M.
Yes. And then get a bit closer with VDJ and djay pro so that all released hardware products work with multiple software from the get go
@@LTParis Why is that price interesting? High or low?
If engine upgrades their stems quality then yes!
They haven't been able to, because their licensing clause with serato prohibited them from developing anything but a standalone software. They would have been in breach of contract if they were to work on their own dj software that doesn't act solely as a standalone product.
I work with a lot of banks in my day job, and one thing that you cannot do is make abrupt changes to things that will immediately be viewed by the customer I feel the same way about this. I think any changes that will come will come very slowly and far out into the future. But this wreaks of back in the day when windows had a stranglehold on the computer software installation. The government came in and said no no no you have to let other businesses install software too.
While I am not 100% confident in the accuracy of that article the one issue that Cleveland Terry didn't take a deep dive into is the statement regarding providing hardware to Serato one year prior. A normal Hardware Manufacture NDA would never work in regards to providing prior release of proprietary equipment to another equipment company. And no, Apple would never share their final beta version of iphone 15 pro with Samsung a year before release. Parts are one thing, completed products are another. That is a major issue. While aquisitions happen all of the time where companies remain seperate from their parent company I doubt Pioneer would aquire the #1 DJ software company only to allow it to operate as a standalone company. Considering Numark is a entry level to intermediate DJ midi controller company whos current business model is to sell controllers with a version of Serato, giving PioneerDJ the ability to limit their business model is a key factor of a monopoly: being that limits available substitutes for its product and creates barriers for competitors to enter and sustain in the marketplace
Whats good CT! This was an Excellent video my brother. I knew the acquisition would be a huge problem for InMusic. I can also see it from both sides, so I am not mad at either company, but InMusic is right to have fear when they give any new/innovative gear to Serato that it could, and likely would be passed to Pioneer DJ. InMusic WON'T be able to stop the acquisition, especially since they do have their own software. It won't take InMusic years to turn it into a full out DJ software, but they know that it will be an extremely hard-sell to DJ's using other software. I love Rane & Stanton especially, but it looks like I might be ready to move into a full Pioneer DJ setup myself especially with those new PLX-CRSS12's on the block and lots of new Pioneer/Serato goodness that we know is around the corner.
Of course Serato isn't going to shut down support for other manufacturers. But the bottom line is InMusic doesn't want to pay for the licensing of Serato, if it also helps Pioneer's bottom line. I am a die hard Denon guy. My main controllers have been Denon controllers for years, but I have to admit that standalone controllers are used by a very small percentage of DJs. None of the DJs that I know personally use standalones. So Engine DJ is not considered to be a well known DJ software. It's VDJ and Serato. Those are the softwares that most DJs know. It would take Inmusic 3 years to get Engine DJ, the laptop software, to that level of functionality and notoriety.
Good stuff, Do you like Native Instruments' Traktor Pro software?
Wow very interesting after both sides said, “hey it’s all good.” But I can understand InMusic’s concern. I’m still wondering why Pioneer DJ would want Serato in house when they already have competing product Recordbox. I’m guessing 1 of those products will go away. Hard to justify the expense of 2 softwares doing the same thing under 1 company. But also be hard to stop 1 of them from a marketing point of view so you don’t piss off loyal customers. So who knows. Thanks for the news!
There is no comparison of Engine DJ to Serato. All companies say we are going to be separate companies at first. The change will not happen overnight
I think from the hardware side, manufacturers would be better served if their gear were software "agnostic" whereby you can buy their hardware and it performs effectively across several established software programs & suites. IMO, DJs are more likely to upgrade or buy new, state-of-the-art gear if it works with software they're already comfortable with. Many may choose not to buy new gear if it means re-acclimating themselves to software they're unfamiliar with. I think that's what makes Virtual DJ such a popular option: it's adaptable to most all DJ consoles & controllers on the market Just my humble 2 cents.
What could stop Pioneer from changing their mind later down the road and it would become very difficult inMusic products that depend on Serato. They would be in the drivers seat. (Monopoly)
Well then inmusic made a poor decision designing a product that depends on another company that may or may not exist in the future. Now that it's end of life customers will have to upgrade
I am not surprised by this.
Breaking records and Breaking news it’s Cleveland Terry!
In a recent interview at DJX, Pioneer DJ stated Serato contacted them - Current Serato owners wanted out. So either way - Serato will eventually be sold to someone.
Can this interview be found somewhere?
How well does engine do, for "open format" wedding/mobile dj's, vs Serato? I've been hearing Serato, Serato, Serato..has that changed with the latest update?
Serato is pretty bad at open format mobile DJing. Too few features compared to what DJs may be asked to do. Virtual DJ is the king in that area
@@klausmogensen8691 Really? I haven't heard that, but I have heard virtual is very good.
IMO there's not a single DJ software that can't do open format.
Even if the intent was to monopolize the Industry they wouldn't outright tell all the other brands that they were severing ties. They have more to gain by maintaining the illusion of a working relationship vs burning bridges. What better way to know what the competition has in the works than to have them literally hand over their product?
Sure we can say, "looking at it objectively from both sides without bias" but it's still a consumer's POV no matter how we chop it up.
InMusic is looking at at from a Business standpoint & as their CEO, O'Donnell would be naive to not think of it as a Power Play.
If I were InMusic I'd be making a play for a VDJ acquisition, rebrand it (which Atomix should do regardless) & incorporate it into their OS. Denon DJ already has the best VDJ integration in the game so it makes all the sense in the world.
How is rebranding VDJ beneficial to anyone? There's equity in the name "VDJ". Taking away their identity would be detrimental to all involved
@@dwizl7213 Take FL Studio for example. When they were called Fruity Loops, nobody acknowledged them as a legit DAW. Once they rebranded themselves to FL Studio folks started to take them seriously. Now world class producers use it as their go to DAW & countless chart topping tracks have been cranked out with it.
VDJ could benefit by doing the same. There's a stigma attached to the name"Virtual DJ" and it hurts them imo.
Yea i dont know about rebranding but i definitely thought they should buy them
I agree with the rebrand & give it a new image where people would acknowledge as an equal to Serato, RB or Traktor because as of right now, DJs associate VDJ with Mobile Jockeys, Karaoke or Video Jockeys. They've been the frontrunners of the Stem movement from Day 1 yet folks that use stems regularly still won't use it because of the image that it would give them. They should repackage it & have A List DJs do promo videos
Thx Cleveland for the informative update, seems like Inmusic is trying to establish a 'clear' future (in writing ). Seems Serato's parent co. want to keep all options open without the lawyers getting in it. In a sense, that can only benefit Serato's parent co. bottom line. With any takeover, you want to know what changes is going to happen for your future. It's been my experience after said actions, there's 'cost cutting ' initiatives that follow. Like reducing staff, starting with people with 20 plus years before they can retire.. Ijs.
That would be a great end result
I had a gut-suspicion when the announcement was made that it would eventually be problematic for anyone outside of the Pioneer ecosystem. Possibly for those in the Pioneer sphere if pricing goes up. Will InMusic products continue to unlock the software? None of that information was disclosed. Just a broad statement about continuing to work with end-users. Who buys a company or business entity for a large price and does not expect an ROI?
As a Rane user, I have my fingers crossed while biting my nails at the same time!
Don't forget Serato makes a lot of money on non dj software and things like Serato Studio, and Serato Sampler, pitch in time are becoming big sellers..and they are subscription based.
the proper reaction from inmusic should be purchesing or collabarating with Traktor with full support to all their products
Sure Inmusic has EngineOS but let's not forget there are other software companies out there as well. VDJ, Tracktor, Algoriddim. Some are more available than others but a deal with a company like InMusic might really make a company like Algoriddim a real player in the game.
I think the more logical move is to partner or acquire VDJ/Atomix.
I thought Rane Own VDJ Now@@LTParis
I agree, they are already in bed with them anyway.
I’ve honestly been waiting on some standalone Rane gear. A sick 4 deck rane mixer with moog filters. An Engine OS Rane 12
I agree
Why am I not surprised
We all know that most businesses want to do one thing, eliminate competition. The first thing they will do is cut off inmusic. Im no fan of inmusic but i understand their stance.
Djay Pro AI is a wonderful DJ software. Prior to switching to the Denon Prime Go….I used DJay Pro on my M1 Mac….with my old Rev1N. There is also Virtual DJ….which works with my Denon Prime Go.
inMusic needs to make their own DVS program and get some elite djs to show it off
We could all just switch back to vinyl and put them all out of business. Most hip Hop Dj's only use it for it's convenience of not having to carry records around lol. Denon should make a controller similar to the Prime 4 + with 12" platters and put them all out of the loop. Well leave them to fight with each other and the festival dj's....
Crosstown beef be like crosstown traffic, DJs companies be on some real ish
I’m sure it will work out OK.
Monopolies are just not good to consumers period. No way to sugarcoat this, no amount of analogies (bad ones at that) to try and convince otherwise. Competition, healthy competition will keep all involved to continue innovating. I'll end this with a perfect example of monpolies with out dated tech. Cable companies.
When you look at it in business point of view, that word RIVAL explains why they are doing what they is necessary to do.
what's up Big C.
very good topic as ususl.
This is one confusing development, it's not an issue if all parties continue to operate in "Good Faith", however, there is no guarantee that this will continue. Quite frankly I think both the software and hardware manufacturers should be divorced of each other. The good thing about this is that for both Pioneer & Serato, their competition has increased significantly over the last 5 years. In my books, Pioneer & Serato are both status symbols. DJs purchase these products to say, "I have reached the top". Is Serato any better than Virtual DJ? NO NO, they both have equal + & - values. Is Pioneer sany better than Numark or RANE? Again they both have their + & - values.
So, its all left to the preferences of the DJs globally. I prefer Pioneer & Virtual DJ but if they were operationally problematic tomorrow, I would switch both or whichever brand(s) was problematic and continue to DJ as I do now.
PS: I have heard some very good mixes with Numark Mixtracks & not so popular Software so I am convinced its all about what DJs see other DJs using. DJs control the business but Marketing controls the DJs. :🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
But does the man like "Traktor" (or even ever tried it for that matter) ;)
hahaha...I'm moving to traktor now.
@@ClevelandTerry another soul saved, my mission on earth is complete
Interesting turn of events.
I still think is too early to tell what's gonna happen but definitely adds to the "tea". I don't blame them, they're trying to protect their own, as they should.
If there is a company that should have acquired Serato it should have been Rane, they had the best combination in the Dj market
Let's agree to disagree on that one. :-)
Wait what!!!!!!
I can understand the argument that Inmusic is making that essentially Pioneer would have the power to effectively brick a lot of Inmusic products if they wanted too.
But I think it’s very unlikely that they would do that because Pioneer would just be creating a bunch of anti-fans that will never want to buy any of their products.
You do realize that Pionner already tried to sink Serato with creating RekordBox. RB did not gain the market share that they hoped so it made more sense to snag Serato directly. Pioneer has always had the major share of equipment side, especially in clubs. And they want to crush their competition.
@@LTParis Very true Pioneer wants to dominate everything, they will eventually block or restrict inMusic equipment
Getting parts is one thing but showing a prototype to your competitors is a no no and the deal is not complete yet so I’m sure pioneer would cut them off from buying the rights to Serato.
"And then there were two"
Agree to dis agree …. That’s what I said and thought right when I heard the purchase. Pioneer is buying Serato to kill the j duster to yes, to be the monopoly. Pioneer would control the market period
I feel that Serato DJ has a disadvantage because they don't have any hardware. I feel like by the company saying that they're no longer going to use Serato is a direct shot at them because DJs love their software even though they don't have any hardware. And I guess if we really want to be honest the other hardware companies don't need Serato DJ. But the DJs we love Serato DJ so it would be a revolt if they got rid of them. This is definitely dicey. It's like the dating phase where you don't want to get married because marriage is forever. The hardware companies don't want to be married to Serato DJ. Again I love all of the different engines Serato DJ happens to be my favorite cuz that's where I started
I really hope this deal doesn't go through. The concerns are real clev. Pioneer will decide what to do with serato and it will be in favor of their products. I will have to buy their product for the first time in my life !!!
They are going to combine Serato and Rekordbox.
GOD PLEASE NO. While they do the same thing technically, Rekordbox is for the Paris Hilton type EDM playing club DJ's, and Serato's for the skilled DJ/turntabilists. They need to keep them separate. I'm a wanna-be turntablist, I'll never become a wanna be EDM DJ. If you're right though, I guess I'll stick with whatever the last version of Serato is.
I tried Rekordbox and I just don't like it. I'd rather use VDJ than some Serato+Rekordbox mashup.
@@Bigheadedwon Same here. I hate Rekordbox.
I dont see how it is a monopoly...virtual dj, traktor, engine OS exist. People can still have a choice on what software to use. Companies can still choose to work with other companies. Now if alpha bought all of them it would be.
"When we work with Serato, we give them our product up to a year ahead of time so they can analyse it and put the software in. If I was handing it to the new dominant player, I'm essentially handing it to my competitor."
Well, that's better than screwing people over (as has happened) or straight up ripping people off, like other brands do.
Unless Pioneer creates product that pushes updates to the scale and degree as InMusic, I think they'll be fine. Sophisticated DJs, and really any sensible consumer, can see the difference in buying a product that remains the same from day 1 (Pioneer), opposed to a product that is constantly evolving with new features long into the future (Denon).
? Doesn't Pioneer make their own software also, with your logic, Doesn't Pioneer make gear that works with Serato and Rekordbox?
Please Who is SAY Someone or Some Company is interested in Buying Serato with the intention of Changing New Creations that Serato has Created??😮, Example STEMS???, Just because They Feel STEMS is Not Good based on How They Feel??? or Vision … and What they Think DJ’s?? Could USE??? or Just might Need???🙄🤦🏽♂️🤔🤫 Let’s Just Look or … Wonder?? What these Software Visionaries??? & Creators Just might be Thinking??????
ironic really, given that In Music have bought up loads of previously independent brands themselves
this isn't the same as getting parts from samsung. You can just order a screen with spec and it's also not a major innovation. You order from a chip supplier you're just ordering a batch of wifi chips or bluetooth chips. If you have to give Pioneer your latest Rane mixer for a year before launch you're giving pioneer, your competitor, the actual product. Apple doesn't give Samsung it's iPhone a year out. Serato being owned by one dominant company is bad for djs. It will kill choice. It's not different than having one cable company in a town. that was bad for competition.
Also you don't trust a buyer won't monopolize the market and not license Serato to other companies. If you're an antitrust lawyer in the FTC you prevent them from ever using that power before hand because after you can't stop it. That they say the won't isn't enough. That's why companies have things split out. That's why there's a lot of flack of the Activision deal. The fact that they say they'll be on both platforms isn't enough alone. They have to prove it. In Activision's case they'd lose a huge market being only on xbox. Serato being only on pioneer mixers devices might not lose that much. Now i'm not saying they will shut everyone out. But it very much is an option.
who knows. maybe dj equipment might become cheaper if they really want to compete.
It's as simple as someone buying your favorite restaurant , and making it a McDonald's good news it's McDonald's bad news you're favorite spot is gone and you have one less choice of were you can eat.
That's what serato says terry. But just look at traktor. They promised all kinds of features and new gear. And none of it came to light! Once Francisco partner bought them out. They fired 80 percent of their staff
InMusic should buy out Virtual Dj and compete against pioneer just a thought?
Engine DJ. I had a feeling that iNmusic was going to pull something like that so people could start going to Engine DJ.
There is a problem it’s monopoly and Rane was the first to use and support Serato so I don’t blame them. I be pissed too . Engine os is not the same as Serato .Rane likes partnership with Serato they have been from the beginning .
Not this Rane...the were acquired by Inmusic. :-) Irony
@@ClevelandTerry This I know it does not matter who bought them out years ago That Rane name is the signature mark for Serato from the start. First mixer to incorporate the proprietary systems .
I thought it was a done deal already.
Cant compare serato to engine os. They both have 2 completely different use cases. Serato operates as a computer based software, and engine os operates as a standalone software. There's no ability to use engine os as a computer based software with something like the rane one, or any other hardware that cant also operate as a standalone. I think that's what inmusic meant when they said they would have to create a new platform for dj software, and technically they would. I also agree with inmusic in the fact that there would be huge technology security issues involved with sending serato/pioneer their products... absolutely nothing would stop them from reverse engineering their hardware...and it would give pioneer the leg up by knowing where their #1 competition stood in terms of what they are releasing.....it wouldn't make sense to do that. This whole thing screams conflict.... there's also an issue now of inmusic asking essentially pioneer to create a feature inside of their software to coincide with a new feature that could be on an inmusic product...this use to go flawlessly with serato getting right to work on it. What would push serato to jump right on adding a new feature for a competitor? These feature additions could now be pushed to the back burner at serato, and seriously hinder inmusics ability to propel dj technology. There's absolutely no denying that inmusic has been the speaking force with dj technology, with every other company following suit, and never actually leading in new technology. This acquisition will 100% hinder that ability.
Engine OS doesn't work...yet. We don't really know what was or is in the pipeline. However, Serato makes software for gear and if a company makes a product that competes with said software it's essentially the same thing. True it's not computer based but the bottom line is if people are using the prime series, they are potentially not using Serato.
@@ClevelandTerry well I don´t think the Prime series are that different from Pioneers stand alone controllers or "All-in-one DJ System" as Pioneer like to call them, you could probably argue Pioneers also comes with Serato in the box along with Recordbox, but Pioneers main goal was to get you to try out their Recordbox ecosystem, and hope you stayed forever as a loyal Pioneer/Recordbox fan.
You say: ..... if people are using the prime series, they are potentially not using Serato.
I say : ......... if people are using the Recordbox software, they are potentially not using Serato. Serato should have been soooo pissed years ago as Pioneer 1. started making their own recordbox software, and 2. selling "Recordbox controllers" like DDJ-200 and DDJ-400, to try and seduce any new young dj into the Recordbox universe and that way promoting Pioneers own software, literally Pioneer was pissing Serato up and down their back and Pioneer could get away with it because they are BIG. If Alpha Theta/Pioneer gets away with buying Serato it is so close to monopoly, and week after week after week it will be Pioneer, Pioneer, Pioneer gear reviews on your channel.😉
we all know the day will come and they will cut them and every other besides pioneer, coz i have a feeling an idea of joint serato and rekord box is definitely coming
I’d rather Not to sell, I believe in Serato and I believe that they would have the chance to take on any future softwares.
NATIVE INSTRUMENT NEEDS TO SELL THE TRAKTOR DJ DIVISION TO IN MUSIC. THAT WOULD EVEN THINGS OUT A BIT. TRAKTOR NEEDS A DOSE OF CPR. MY GOSH. I HOPE IN-MUSIC READS THIS. MAKE A BUYOUT PROPOSAL TO TRAKTOR.
Engine os step your game up!!! Why would sereti miss out on that money from Denson unless pioneer makes them.
You can't compare Engine or Rekordbox to Serato.
Says who?
Wow Cleveland I remember when you used to have unbiased opinions.
Ever since we started seeing Rekordbox and Serato imprints on many of pioneers new hardware something didn't add up.
InMusic is.... 🤦♂
Not a good idea for pioneer to buy Serato . It would give them too much access, regardless of what they say..
Does the current inmusic serato license agreement prevent inmusic from officially supporting other dj software?
Nope
Problem with your Engine vs Serato is that nobody waves Engine and this is all about stems
Pionnee can make software outside of Pioneer not operate efficiently. I agree InMusic has the right ti sue!
You're also missing a big point in your theory Rane products do not work with engine os.
Don't forget Rane made serato who they are today. Remember Serato is software it's not hardware.
I said all of that. Maybe you skipped over that.
I still think the software is an issue. You will be given your direct competitor the specifications for your Hardware. When Apple order Samsung chips Apple doesn't ship their Hardware to Samsung and say your look at it tell me what I need. Apple just orders the chips which they can order from many other manufacturers. The point I'm trying to make is when it comes to software you cannot have an ethical relationship because the software needs to know what it's running on and there may be some secrets that in music does not want pioneer to get their hands on. In my opinion they have a very valid case.
You make a good point though about engine OS being a a competing software. But let's be honest if it wasn't for Rane Serato wouldn't have existed today.
Yikes
Sounds like InMusic doesn’t trust the Serato developers to keep “secrets” about upcoming InMusic hardware.
Pioneer would be absolutely acquiring Serato to break the link between Serato and Inmusic! That's why companies acquire others as one way of weakening competitors.
Yes InMusic has Engine but that’s not a competitor to Serato……Engine is a competitive software to Rekordbox Export mode you can’t DJ off of Engine on a laptop so technically it’s not even the same type of software as Serato the only DJs that use Engine are guys that use the standalone hardware. Now yes they could build on top of it and turn into a “Engine DJ” but why would they do that when they’ve had such a great relationship with Serato. They was never trying to compete with Serato with Engine so they was never a concern for Serato in the first place same way Rekordbox was never a competitor until they updated and created Rekordbox DJ. So when you look at it like that for InMusic to not have to in reality pay their competitor they would either have to create a new DJ PC based software or build on top of Engine which either one would take a couple years to develop since quite obviously they didn’t see this coming.
Let's not look through rose colored glasses, when they came out with engine os they were absolutely competing with Serato. Most of the hardware that supports Engine, is mobile DJ focused. I'm not disagreeing that as a business you have to do this...but I'm not sure their intentions were always on the up an up.
@@ClevelandTerry what I’m saying is that with it still only being on standalone hardware it’s still not really a true competitor to Serato a software where the computer is doing all the work and you can use WAY more hardware with…..same as the debate with using Rekordbox USBs vs Serato I never agreed with because one is simply a management software where the other is a full fledged DJ software. Hope that makes more sense or you get where I’m coming from. There’s plenty of DJs who never even looked at Rekordbox knowing it was USB only and just preferred Serato because of the advantages of having a laptop software and that’s where Engine is now. Looking at the press release doesn’t look like InMusic ever really planned on Engine being a full dj software like Serato or Virtual Dj ect. but the focus was on the standalone hardware
So inmusic has hit the market at a cheaper price point than both serato and vdj and you no longer need a laptop so it's possible .
is serato putting any money into your pocket??? no😂🎉
Not sure what that has to do with the video but no, they definitely are not.
I hope they win and stop the acquisition
Think about it this way - people will stick to the software more than hardware. Example Apple - once you’re locked deep into the iOS it’s very hard to transition out to Android. Thousands of contacts, pictures, content in iOS., users don’t have an option but to keep buying Apple hardware.
Therefore, software is key for locking the consumer. If this acquisition happens, Serato can very easily stop supporting other hardware. Leaving InMusic hardware out of business. InMusic has every right to file lawsuit.
Aw maan...Wow, I've been "inmusic" production for years via Akai. Was curious about the DJ thing, from the Force, which was designed to work with DJ's, but unfortunately, was released at the same time as the Prime 4, which left the Force as a pure music production device. I finally decide, yeah..I'm doing this! (DJ) Got all excited about the Prime 4+, then started learning about the software, Rekordbox, Serato, etc..thought I had figured it all out, now this?? It pauses me right now on the Prime 4+, which I would run on Serato. But, I'd still want the option of standalone, and/or Engine OS. That said, I love the Opus Quad too, if I went that way, I'd at least have Rekordbox and Serato? *sigh* lost in it now..I wanted to go all in on Prime 4, (mobile) and later, Opus Quad. Which I figured would cover it all. Now I'm not sure..what say you?
In-music is right! Stop this nonsense thing!Not only Pioneer is their competitor but also Pioneer is too money hungry,soon or later they will charge all Serato users a monthly subscription.
Plus they ALREADY have recordbox so why did they need it Serato think about it?
I just got a pioneer rev 7, is all this political corporate Bs going to affect us?
no
I totally agree with your analysis of this. Companies do this all the time. Particularly relevant is your mention of Apple sourcing from Samsung etc . Anybody in the semiconductor industry who actually follows the markets will not find this unusual at all. I particularly love and use Serato DJ. However, if Pioneer were to buy and dissolve Serato DJ (unlikely - I hope) , I'll learn another software just as I learnt Serato. So for me, this is just another case of a front runner, trying to stay ahead of the curve. Great discussion Cleveland.
I don't trust pioneer at all. This sale should be blocked by the feds in music shouldn't even have to sue.
I disagree 100%. Serato could sell itself to ANYONE, except a DJ controller manufacturer. Serato has always been a third party for the benefit of the DJ community and to avoid this kind of legal action. If only I had one hundred million dollars!!!
If I had 100 million I personally wouldn't buy Serato. :-)
I think Pioneer buying Serato because STEMS.Serato has the best STEMS technology and STEMS is the Future in Djing
It sounds to me that INMusic doesn't have confidence in it's own ability to promote, upgrade & innovate it's own software. They're saying Serato is more popular than our software so they shouldn't be allowed to sell the software to anyone else because we'll never make a product as good.
Sometimes as good or even better doesn't matter. Old habits die hard. For a while Dennon was beating pioneer in cdjs and tech yet Pioneer remains club standard.