Trimix Basics For Scuba Divers
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- Trimix Basics For Scuba Divers... Maybe you’ve heard the term 'Trimix' batted around on a dive boat before and you smiled politely, but didn’t quite know what the term meant, so you kept out of the conversation to avoid embarrassing yourself. Well, next time someone mentions exotic breathing gas mediums, you’ll be more in the know!
This video is only meant as a super-high level primer. There is a lot more knowledge required to dive with Trimix than I could hope to fit in a 10 minute video. This is supplementary and trivial information only. Always seek proper training from an authorized scuba Instructor like me through a recognized training agency.
In this video we are going to cover four very simple points:
What is Trimix?
Why do divers use Trimix?
When do divers use Trimix?
What are the Pro’s and Cons of using Trimix on a dive?
If you'd like more information or to take a helium-based diving course with me, you can reach me via our website:
www.diversready.com/contact.html
As always, thanks for watching!
D.S.D.O
James
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Trimix Basics For Scuba Divers
Though we are based in Florida, Hawaii, California, and Michigan have 100 ft and 300 ft ocean and lake underwater coral reef, shipwreck, cave diving, freediving, scuba diving, and closed circuit rebreather trips. To learn full face mask, beginner scuba diver, advanced scuba diver, tech scuba diver, cave diver you can reach out to a professional scuba diver. Everyone should get scuba diving insurance with Divers Alert Network.
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I love that you're covering more technical diving lately. I'm taking the deco course now and then trimix is next!
What kind of deco courses are to taking? If you don’t mind, and before you pay for your trimix class take a look at CCR certifications. If you doing trimix you probably diving deep a lot and a CCR would save you lots of money
@@nes.torfernandez absolutely correct! That is the main reason I'm taking my CCR course in a few weeks.
Thanks for always creating content for new-ish divers without making them feel stupid!
I'm merely an advanced open water PADI diver but you asked for nitro narc stories so... On my deepest dive, 130 ft, off the north coast of St. Croix, we were on a ledge of the reef drop-off. I was extremely euphoric and I had this Billy Idol song running through my head because it had been on the radio right before our dive. The instructor showed how colors other than blue were possible at that depth with a flashlight. Then he had us do some basic arithmetic on a chalkboard and I was less than precise. Only 13 minutes of bottom time if I recall, but it was super fun and I'm glad I was under the guidance of a professional. One day I'd like to get into technical diving.
Great primer, thanks James.
I especially love your intro! With your experience as a technical dive instructor, I love seeing this content.
New to the channel and have watched a few others. I really like the information presented and the manner. Looking forward to catching up and seeing new ones.
Hey James @DiversReady I just want to say your videos are amazing and have inspired me to take an open water course. I used all your advice to pick an instructor and he has been absolutely amazing he was patient and made sure I understood everything. I have my checkout dives this week.Keep putting out amazing content. Side note my instructor agrees with you that to take an advanced open water course you should have at least 25+ dives before he will even train you.
I see myself going tec eventually not necessarily for going deeper, but definitely for deco so I can stay longer. Thanks for the good info.
Great introduction to trimix. As you said expensive but if you want to dive deep needed to stay clear headed and safe. Stay safe and keep diving.
That's why I had a wobble on a deep dive a few years ago. I was at 32m, naughty I know, and my head went a little fuzzy. It took everything to check and understand both my air gauge and dive computer. I came up a couple of meters and it eased off. I just kept concentrating on my gauges.
Offers perspective on the last dive of David Shaw dive..
Great informative video! Keep it up James. Will be taking my first step into tech diving world in a few weeks time with an Intro to Tech course with TDI. Slowly getting there.
Great video as always James! Just a note, we won’t ever practically run out of helium, there are abundance quantities on earth actually, it’s just that it’s very hard to recover it economically so prices will likely remain high until we can cheaply source it from space later this century (possibly).
I’m a PADI dive master and would like to get my instructor certification at this guys shop, I like his straight forward and no BS instructions
There’s a lot of really good instructors in south Florida for you to pick. He’s also a option but for believe you are going to have a hard time having him to teach you.
Anything you do make sure to pick the right one.
Hi James, you are still one of the best to explain scuba topics. A wonderful, simple and interesting style. Thank you, a follower from the city of Jeddah on the Red Sea.
Brilliant and frank explanation! TMX is a must in many diving strategies, the down side is that a long and deep dive is going to cost quite a fortune..
Yeah, as soon as you've done a few trimix dives you're gonna be glancing at that rebreather.
Thanks for the intro explanation of what Trimix is… as a recreational diver we heard about Trimix many times, but didn’t really know what it is.. great thanks
Did my trimix training in 2011 red sea canyon can still remember the dive and the intense course. Homed my patients and skill.
Awesome explanation, James. Enjoyed listening to it...specially the last bit😂Here goes trimix next. Cheers.
Thank you .. really appreciate the information
Great info. Very well presented.
Never knew Helium is THAT expensive! Thnx for this video. Very informative !
Great info. Thanks for sharing.
Glad it was helpful, Thanks for watching!, Dive Safe.
Good informative account , thank you
Thanks for your video
Love that last Narc comment on the fish.
Thanks for the info very helpful. Rory Ireland 👍🏻
Thanks for all the useful info
My pleasure!
@@DiversReady :)
Great intro to trimix. Going to start getting myself ready for a sidemount class. After the trip to the Bahamas in Nov. 🤞🤞🤞
You'll love it. Sidemount is fun. Just get a good instructor who mainly dives sidemount themselves. Quite a few details they won't know if they only sidemount on courses.
@@Yggdrasil42 thanks for the insight
I loved the intro :)
Very good summery 👏👌
Nice video!!
Thanks, dear friend. It's very interesting 👍
Thanks for visiting!
Not on the subject exactly, but would love your suggestion/recommendation on which dive shop to use during the FL key trip this October. Is there a list of highest rated dive shops (customer service, safety, equipment). Thank you!
New to the sport and the channel. Looking to retain my certs and go deep within the next 2/3 years
Great info
thanks! dive safe.
Did my deep course yesterday here in the UK. St Andrew's Lakes, Halling. 34m, pitch black and 7C. Dive 2 we had to do a navigation. Swam out, or attempted too, and thought that's strange. Doesn't feel like I'm moving. Didn't join the dots and had got caught on a line from the platform we were using. Knew there was an issue, but didnt do anything about it. Made the reciprocal baring easy to follow back to the platform though 😊
was down at 120ft the other day, in this ravine between two walls, 50ft vis. Two of our little group of 4 were about 30ft ahead and above my buddy. I was trying to swim up to them, fully aware im narced out of my mind and i might have been ever so slightly negative, but it took me about a minute to start slowly ascending. that whole minute i felt like i was in a video game with no connecton, the buddy pair ahead of me looked like they were swimming but not moving at all and i legitimately thought for a second i was "lagging out" until i realized that it was actually real life and started working harder to kick up, once i ascended about 20ft my head cleared up but man that was a crazy experience
I'd like to see a cost breakdown of trimix vs rebreathers. How many times do you drop a couple hundred bucks on fills before it makes sense financially to go down the rebreather route. I'm aware rebreathers have their own ongoing costs and rigorous training and upkeep to consider
Seconding this
It is usually estimated after 60 dives rebreather is better value.
That's an easy comparison. A rebreather, plus training, is between 6 and 10k $. Maintenance on a rebreather isn't too bad. Some new O2 sensors every year or two for $200-300 and a few bucks of Sofnolime per dive. The helium price depends on your location, but maybe $200 per twinset? I'd save up for a rebreather myself.
@S M a rebreather will cost about 12K. Trimix will cost about 200 to fill doubles. So 60 fills comes out to 12k. Training for doubles or rebreather is about the same.
You also have to factor in time, 60 meter on twinset you probably do 20 minutes plus you use decompression gasses as well, on ccr you can do same dive and do 60 minutes at that depth.
The more I dive the more I realize I'm still a newb, going to start bumping the limits of my current training before I move on
Thanks for the great content James. You may want to turn off the auto focus on your camera to avoid having it hunting for the focus throughout the recording. Keep it up man
Thanks
Deep diving is so cool y’all know any channels that go over it more and dive deep?
I can say for anything deeper than 145-150 trimix is the way but at the same time as you just mentioned it can be so expensive. At this point if you want to keep the fun you better get into CCR.
If I had the resources I would moved to Florida lease a dive boat and dive with you for a couple of years, not everyday so we would hate each other’s guts but enough to glean some knowledge and get to that next level
As always great content. Its tragic that the costs of helium is so high. Not only do heluim allow for deeper depths safeley, but it could also considerably prolong your bottom time if you would normally dive at air depths, provided you dishing out the exstra costs.
I predict rebreathers are going to be all over the show in the years to come due to the rising costs of heluim. As a entry level tech diver i would love to progress down the trimix pathway on open circuit but the more and more people i speak to advises to stop wasting money and go rebreather a.s.a.p. granted the theory remains the same, but on a fraction of the costs compared to all the wasted heluim on open circuit.
Bottom line if you going to partake in diving that absolutely requires the use of trimix, a rebreather, even a rental unit will work out cheaper compared to the costs of open circuit on trimix and it comes with way more benifits. The future of open circuit trimix diving looks dim
Yeah, I just got cave trained in Mexico and never saw that many rebreather before. They're changing the game there. Longer dives allow exploring deeper into caves safely. Reduced decompression times improve comfort. No bubbles reduces damage to caves or reduces percolation when exploring brand new sections. Units like the KISS Sidewinder which were the most popular there are so simple to use and check that they're far less risky than older models. The Sidewinder's profile is barely larger than a sidemount diver so they can get into passages that back mount rebreathers can't get into. They mentioned they saw a big uptake in rebreather training in recent years.
I'm wondering which decompression software you recommend. and can we dive with pure helium and oxygen?
so the decompression time is future reduced and NDL will be extremely long. if we consider cost is no the problem
I am currently looking around for a set of double tanks and regulators. Planning to go into the technical side of things over the next few years. I imagine that sandard air regulators are fine for trimix, am i right? Thinkng that it is the O2 content that is critical, aka enriched air nitrox. Any comments?
Hey James, curious about your ears did you have any pain or irritation before your operation? I dove last week while getting over a cold and thought my sinuses were up to par but had a hard time coming back up from depth (had to take my hood off and stop around 30" for about 2-3 minutes to clear my ears)
But now my ears have a slightly swollen feeling and my inner ear feels tingly almost itchy. Just curious if youve ever been effected similarly? im waiting to get into see my doctor in a couple days but im starting to get worried about it.
In the 1980's, before the term "techical sport diving" even existed, cave divers were using tri-mix to enable deep cave exploration. We were unable to get Medical Oxygen for deco bottles, so we'd use cascade systems to download o2 to scuba tanks from welding bottles! Helium was handled the same way, and it took a lot of trial and error to get the correct mixture checked with an o2 analyzer.
Great Video, with the limited supply of helium does that mean more people would then go the rebreather route ? can you do a pro's and con's on them ?
absolutely - if you need trimix than you dive CC/rebreather not OC That's as simple as that. Unless you are about to break another world record in max depth and have lots of sponsors (still nicer to breathe CC as it gets seriously cold breathing tmx on OC)
You still could need helium but much less of it than OC.
@@marcin.j.wasiak the next world records might by on hydrogen too, quadmix?
@@djknauss1 Mixing hydrogen and oxygen, especially under pressure, is a really really bad idea. Think Hindenburg inside your cylinder.
@@Cthippo1 this is false, look it up. there are certain H2/O2 mixtures that are safe that dont result in spontaneous combustion...and the safe level of H2 is surprisingly high.
Pony bottle for air Re Drysuit simples, amazed why everything has to be made to sound soooo complicated, why not CCR it’s really quite straightforward
argon pony bottle then
My worst narcosis experience. When I did my Extended Range course, our last dive was on the Jodery in the St Lawrence Seaway. 170 ft time to turn the dive. I asked which way to the line. My buddy pointed to it. I looked towards the line and then forgot. Almost immediately I asked my buddy again which way to the line. He then took me by the hand and we went to the up line together.
So, how soon will we be to using hydrogen more commonly for breathing gas? I see that hydrox and hyrdelox are both gas blends, but from the brief reading I've done I also understand that the current uses are highly specialized and are rather volatile.
So, yes, I'm joking, but depending on what turn helium takes, what choice are we going to have?
i think hydrox is volatile after the H concentration is over 94% or something like that...its pretty high. to go really deep it will need to be done on hydrogen since helium also gets toxic at depth around 500-1000 ft
With GUE we are trained to use trimix for all dives below 30 meters with at least 30% helium in the mix. Deeper than 45 meter dives at least 45% 😂 obviously you understand why basically all GUE technical divers own a rebreather.
James - would you say its easier to harder to get qualifed with a rebreather or trimix.
trimix is both open circuit and closed circuit. easier to get certified with open circuit in the short term, long term closed circuit is the only practical way to dive trimix
Wow James, sample and easy explanation about trimix, well done 🤙🏻
Thanks buddy. Dive safe.
@@DiversReady cheers 🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
Hi James. Good video. Question for you: Does the use of helium reduce the deco time? I know the more helium the lower the END but, being helium also a gas in our system, does it take the same time to offgas as nitrogen? I know it allows you to go deeper due to lower END but somehow I have in my mind that it takes the same or more time on the stops to release the gas.
I hope one of these days I will have the time (and money) to go and do some training with you. Or maybe use you as our guide in the keys.
Regards,
MIguel
i believe since He is a smaller molecule it off gasses quicker - but i may be wrong
In some cases yes, but it really depends on the dive and what you are using for deco gas - 02/He or 02/N2
It’s called the helium penalty. Helium off gases slower. Deco gets longer
@@MrMattydavee, helium off-gases fast, but also on gases fast as well. There is definitely a huge helium penalty, but also keep in mind, once you switch to 50 percent or pure oxygen on an open circuit you are no longer breathing helium. You don't get penalised that much on an open circuit.
@@MrMattydavee Thanks for your answer.
seems like CCR makes more sense
I clearly need trimix because if I can't remember what I saw on a deep rec dive then why do it?
My usual reaction to being narced is paranoia…specifically paranoia about suddenly discovering that I am in a lot of water. I know it’s happening because I look out at a beautiful underwater vista and think. “That water is really pretty…oh, that’s a lot of water, oh dear there’s more of that stuff on top of me, why am I under so much water?! This seems really dangerous.” These thoughts are so out of left field that every time it has happened, I make a deal with myself - “let’s just go up 10 feet where there’s less water and see if it’s narcosis” and though I’m still under lots of water, the feeling is gone pretty much instantly, so it definitely is. It’s happened to me at different depths, all of which I’ve exceeded on other dives with no narcosis and has happened to me in familiar locations as well. It’s an aspect of diving that I occasionally worry about, just because me and my usual buddy’s judgment are things I rely on, since we do a lot of shore diving and un-guided boat diving where the likelihood of us both getting narced is not that improbable.
Given that I’ve been narced at like 75 feet (though my deepest is more like 95), I’m not even sure I’d want to go much deeper on air or nitrox…which does make the training and cost barrier to entry for trimix seem even more unfortunate. I’m even questioning some of the 95-100 dives I had been thinking about just because I can sort of picture how narcosis-based poor judgement could spiral into problems. For example, my buddy and I have shore dove the Harbor in Kona multiple times with a single tank, with the bottom at 95, but though it’s not an overhead environment, it’s at the entrance to the small boat harbor so you can’t surface directly without danger from boats and it’s sort of a long swim into the channel from where you drop, which is a bit of a hike over lava rocks to get to from the road. It’s also an area frequented by tiger sharks. We want to take two nitrox tanks each on sidemount and go look for Shawn the sheep that we’ve heard like the base of a huge buoy mooring there, but would probably take more time than an aluminum 80 at 95 feet after a long underwater swim can provide. When we were swimming out and back on a single tank without a task-loading mission like looking for and trying to photography microscopic nudis, it seemed reasonably safe, but I worry about getting narced and getting too low on air to make it back out of the channel before needing to surface. I wonder if I can rely on my normal narcosis paranoia to keep me from overstaying.
For those depths that are below the traditional trimix zone and in what is considered traditional recreational limits, how do you decide whether the risk of narcosis is too great?
Well done; very interesting and funny.... hope you meant it to be at least a bit funny....
Off topic that is a very cute golden retriever
6:13 What's the reason why (some) tec divers can proceed past the 30m mark, without the effect of narcosis? Is it just that they are used to it?
Yeah if your fit youthful and dive frequently you’ll get use to it and the effects will decrease and being cold , tired and intoxicated will increase the effects
Hey, haven't done much research regarding this but i am slowly learning regarding scuba diving. I apologize in advance if some of my terms are not proper.
I have question regarding safety and for example when some of the incidents that happened while diving because the other guy didn't see or notice that his buddy is running out of air or has some sort of failure of his gear, so he either has to somehow get his attention in order for that other guy to share air with his buddy that needs help or that buddy need to do buoyant ascent. Why are divers not using full face masks with communication feature? I assume if that was the case we would have much less incidents. Maybe i am wrong and there are many bad side-effects or cons with taking that option. That's why i am kindly asking you or anyone else to answer me. Thank you again!
Yes you have hand signals if you out of air or running low, and why nobody using full face mask is because they are not cheap, plus you have to pay for mic extra most of times, also when it comes to emergency it will take time i assume to take mask off and give to someone else unless you have octo, and for ascent depends how bad is your situation, if you buddy gives you air, no need to ascent fast since you have air from him assuming he have spare/octo regulator, if not also is not emergency, it really depends what dept you are if you in not that big dept like 10 meters and only for 15 mins than you dont need to have ascent stop, and afraid of bends, but if its big emergency than going up fast only option.
I think full face mask calls for a separate video all together…there’s a separate training routine for divers who want to use full face mask…fo instance hoe to equalise wearing full face mask or what to do I’d the mask gets flooded….
The solution is to be very well synced with your buddy. I dive with my wife and we are always aware of what is going on with the other. We will get full face mask. It is a bit more advanced but seems a lot safer. Also we plan on filming and the itbis good to have radio
Me: "Why don't they just breath an oxygen-helium mix all the time?"
- - $170 per tank - -
Me: *spits out coffee*
That intro, hahah
I thought the main point of helium was to decrease the work of breathing to lower co2. I learned in GUE that co2 is main cause of narcosis
CO2 is the main reason for death my friend 😂
No I don't know from my nitrox class because I'm doing it tomorrow
With helium being so expensive, and doing the tech diving that you do, why not go the CCR route?
Because the initial investment is so much higher?
I guess going rebreather is the way to go.
Second stage to a fish… fucking brilliant
Thanks! Dive safe.
So how does Trimix work in a rebreather?
Used on the diluent side and goes around the loop. Theoretically it's the same gas going around and around with the only loss being from equalization of the diver and loop on ascent.
Well seems like you could safely breathe Trimix on a rebreather for hours.
I had a buddy who went with me to 55m back on the boat, he said he saw kibbeling. and kibbling are fried pieces of cod🤣
I paid £47 to fill twin 12ltr tanks with 80/20 in the UK, anyone know the price in the US just for info please
"Exotic breathing gas mediums" oh so like hydraheliox, hydrox, and neoquad? ;)
wow it seems to be more safe than nitrox....but very expensive
you are perfect hope to see you one day
Helium cannot be measured with any kind of electrochemical sensors .It can only be measured with conductivity sensors or ultrasonic sensors.It is neutral gas.
Unless we can start extracting helium from asteroids or the moon. I think the moon has helium -3 or 4. Not sure. But whomever can capitalize on that mining will be a trillionaire pretty quick
Wel technicly helium can get narcotic. It just need alot more pressure.
Below 150m diver stop using trimix and switch to full on heliox. No more nitrogen. But at like 300m helium gets a problem. You will feel it narcotic effect. And yes its insane deep. But saturation divers go there. They switch to hydrogen. Even lighter and less narcotic than helium. They went down to 540 or so meter in the water and 700m pressur room with it. It was basicly 5%oxygen and mix of hydrogen and helium for the rest. They never went beyond 700m. But at that moment you need liquid breathing.
Or accept it and go in a submarine
Next time I go to 700m I will try that mix! Joking aside interesting info!
@@andreasoberg2021 if you ever do. You need a person specialist in deep see diving. As you need different oxygen concentrations at different depths. Its actualy pretty complicated.
@@rubikfan1 Thanks I do not plan on going that deep. The deepest I have dived is 32m. I could imagine going maybe 50m with trimix at a point but probably not any more.
James, why don’t you mention CO2 as a major cause for narcosis? Because it’s not so much nitrogen as everyone is told to think. While at depth, say 6 atm, as long as you breath slow and deep it is possible not to suffer from narcosis as long as you don’t get a build up of CO2 in you body. Yes, everyone’s biology is different and different people suffer or don’t suffer narcosis at different depths. But between the surface and 190 ft it’s not a hard fast rule that all divers suffer narcosis.
Fyi 50m is 166.5 ft not 145 ft :)
How much did the intro cost you then 😄?
Depends on the percentage and how deep you breathe, but pure helium would be like 4 to 10 cents USD per breath at surface pressure.
So why not just do a bimix? O2 and HE? Leave the Nitrogen out
.
thanks for the effort but way to much preablmbe
If I stop having fun speaking in the squeaky voice, while gear up on trimix it is time to put me out to pasture.
Every time I see someone using Helium to inflate baloons, I think "well there goes more helium that could've been used in a hospital to save someone's life."
divers consume the same resource as hospitals. just saying.
I might go tech and want to go deep, but I'm hesitant to consume a medical resource.
Helium is used mainly in the industrial setting. Medically it's main use is in an MRI machine. Not really a life saving gas, if your saying it's comparable to, say Epinephrine or some other cardiac arrest medication. Your little bit of use during diving on an occasional trip is not really going to have any impact.
I feel the same thing when I see a rocket launch