I am thanking God for influencing the RUclips "algorithms." Sending me Dr. Witherington's lessons is a great blessing.. The more I watch, prayerfully consider and ponder, the more I learn and the better I understand the Kingdom of Christ. Thank you, Dr. Witherington.
Very good! Revelation is definitely metaphorical and John alerts us early in the text of this fact. Interestingly too - many respected teachers over the years have doubted its canonicity including Martin Luther.
In reading Revelation you should approach it as you would any other Book of the Bible,using the literal,grammatical,historical,contextual interpretation.The literal interpretation does not mean that you can’t have signs or symbols,but as the speaker said in the video,those symbols are pointing to an actality.As the speaker also said,Scripture interprets Scripture.Infact the best interpreter of Scripture is Scripture.So for example,whenever I read of the woman sitting on seven hills I know that this is a symbol pointing to an actuality.The Scripture goes on to tell us what that actuality is; the woman is a City.Scripture interprets Scripture📖✝️😀
I feel so alone in my BFG class (Bible fellowship group) that believes in Covenant theology. Sad, that Christians believe a lie In dispensation theology
There is an alternative view today, instead of the usual dispensationalist point of view that dominates American Evangelicalism, sometimes referred to as partial preterism. We believe that the Revelation was written to seven churches in Asia, in signs or symbols of events that would begin to take place in the first century. This message of Christ to John, to deliver to these seven churches, is a message of hope, in that it demonstrates the defeat of all enemies of Christ and His church. These enemies were empowered by Satan. The first enemy, the harlot, or Old Jerusalem was defeated in 70 AD as retribution for spiritual adultery of the Jews, "We have no king but Caesar, crucify Him, let this man's blood be on us and on our children." The harlot was destroyed by the beast whose back she rode, but who hated her. The beast, which was the Roman Empire with its forced worship of its Caesar as God, was the next enemy to be destroyed. The rider of the white horse, Christ eventually defeated Rome with the gospel message, the sword of the Spirit coming from His mouth, and then against all odds and after much persecution, by the 4th century Christianity had become the national religion of the Roman Empire. The next enemy which is yet to be destroyed, is Satan himself, who had empowered the previous enemies of Christ. The Holy Spirit in His revelation of truth separates the defeat of the first two enemies (harlot, Old Jerusalem/beast, Roman Empire) from the defeat of Satan by a minimum of 1,000 years. The millennium itself is symbolic, representing a greater period of time than 1,000 years, and thus, it is still happening, and has been happening since the collapse of the Roman system of forced Emperor worship and triumph of the church over the Roman Empire. Satan then rallies his allies once again at the very end of all things, and attempts to turn the world against Christianity, in order to finally wipe it out, but just before he is successful, Christ intervenes and ends all things. Satan is destroyed, all humanity is resurrected for the final judgment, the final enemy, death is destroyed, and after this, eternity begins for all.
Revelation 1:1, "shortly come to pass;" Greek- "tachei," which always means, "quickness, speed; hastily, immediately." In all of it's translations in the New Testament it is never translated anything but that. That being said, the first century audience for this writing is specified "to the seven churches which are in Asia." In order to understand this "revealing," you must have knowledge of what these individuals were dealing with. How would anything from our contemporary age have any relevance for persons living 2,000 years ago, in giving them insight on anything that they experienced?
"shortly come to pass" to us means in the news tomorrow.... however, to God, a thousand years is like a day.....and also, a day is like a thousand years..... to Him, the time that He created with it's limitations for us does not parallel the time that is in eternity. Time in our reality is ticking on, controlling every aspect of our existence, but in God's perspective, time is a quantity that is quite small in respect to the unlimited reality of eternity..... I believe the time between the death of Christ and the end of the world equals to the idea that He said ...Romans 9:28 KJV:" For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth." ..... in this generation we are seeing the culmination of that short work.... not short in our eyes, but short in light of eternity.
@@understandingthebible427 to God, a thousand years is like a day. An important thing to look at, is how Daniel was told to seal up his prophesy (Dan 12:4) and John is told not to seal up his prophesy, because the time is near (Rev 22:10) I don’t see why John would be told not to seal up the prophesy, and told the time is near, if it’s at least 2000 years in the future
Exactly. Early Christians could not buy or sell in the first century. In order to market goods, one must burn incense to pagan gods and the emperor. Christians refused, so they had to live outside the community and lived rough lives.
Josh Jay You are misunderstanding the meaning of these terms. Sealing something means it is not set to happen in the future, unless it becomes unsealed later. Unsealing something means it is set to happen in the future, unless it becomes sealed. Basically Daniel was told to seal up the prophecy, because Israel was given 70 weeks to "seal up the prophecy" of Jerusalem's destruction. Some prophecies are placed on halt. When the Jews rejected Jesus the Messiah, the prophecy was unsealed. Nineveh was prophesied to be destroyed in 40 days, but when they repented, that prophecy was sealed up. John was told not to seal the prophecy for the time was at hand for the churches to be judged. It was time for the judgment of God to first start at the house of God. If they didn't repent then the great apostasy would have resulted, in which case the man of lawlessness would have been unveiled. But they did repent and their candlesticks were not moved out of their place as a result of unrepentance. So the prophecy is sealed until the time when God turns again to judge His house. Remember God will always first give a heads up when He will come to judge his house, just as He did in Revelation 2-3. Btw, there are certain things which John were told to seal up in Revelation anyway, so why would he do that, if according to you it was to take place soon there it was not sealed?
The whole book is not allegorical or illusion. Some is, but the specifics of the mark, the 144,000 and each judgement are literal. To add or take away from this book comes with a curse (Rev 22) In addition, there is a blessing in chapter one for all those who read this book and understand it. Probably shouldn’t be the first book a new believer reads, but it should be quick, especially in our current world.
Boy, this episode really attracted the nuts! Personally, i liked it except the idea that newcomers should wait to dive in.... i jumped right in but my walk was nearly derailed because i trusted a certain interpreter too much so be very careful.
That passage you cited about letting judgment flow as waters, and righteousness as mighty stream is Amos 5:24 kjv, let me show you a secret, concealment of thee HS, look up Proverbs 25:2 what does He glory in doing? Look it up first but you will find righteousness is actually JUSTICE here ,read it this way. In a lot of OT passages in KJV of Bible this change is a good change, a concealment designed by HS. Amos 5:24 24 But let judgment run down as waters, and JUSTICE as a mighty stream.
If they believe Jesus paid for all our sins on the cross, rose 3 days later and ascended to heaven to sit at the right hand of God and show fruits of that trust, they’re good 👍
@@joel1110 agreed, but pre-tribbers use fear tactics, "we are not given a spirit of fear" pre-tribbers sell fictional books (a-la jenkins, lehaye) movies. these are satans tactics not a loving Gods tactics. Most of Matt 24 happened in AD70. Todays Charismatics and evangelicals exploit the christian low intellectuals who cherry pick scripture.. remember Satan cherry picked scripture too when he tempted Jesus in the desert... Beware about pre-trib theology!
@@wayneverret True enough, but it promotes a "Spirit of FEAR" of being left behind... " We are not given a spirit of fear but of a sound mind" - which pre-trib is not sound theology... just like speaking with glossolalia, the typology that believe this baloney are not of sound mind... IMO
Ok, you really need to stop calling John "John of Patmos." John was on Patmos for a short time. He wrote the Revelation to the 7 actual churches in Asia Minor, 2 of which no longer exist, in the mid-60s, and was able to leave Patmos in 68 or shortly thereafter when Nero died. John the Apostle or John the Revelator are more appropriate.
Now just saying but it says in Revelation 20:9. That the devil and his men when up on the breadth of the Earth, and compassed the camp of the saints. Look it up the word breadth means the distance or measurement from side to side of something: width. Like the boat measured. 28 feet in breadth. Just saying
Good Stuff - yet, totally disagree with “if you are new don’t start reading Revelation.” On the contrary, read Revelation first and then say, “the rest of your Bible reading will interpret it for you.”
response to post trib prof: wrong: polycarp, eusebius, psuedo ephraim, antiochus, and a dozen other early church fathers/martyrs were pre trib and expressly so, so were the pilgrims, the plymouth brethren, the Chinese watchmen (millions) , most of dutch protestant church, (there are some good PHd dissertations on all of these) ...many of the mentors long before Schofield and darby, ..this proves nothing more than simply it is not a new doctrine... but imminency arguably comes right from Jesus' own red letter words! and all the parables to watch, be ready , oil in lamp, twinkling of an eye, thief in the night, at a time ye think not, no man knows day or hour etc etc...all ring hollow if Jesus doesnt return until the very end of the tribulation...very few ChristiaNS WILL EVEN BE ALIVE THEN after being starved,tortured, gai,///ng//ray//p//ed, beheaded...... why do we need to watch and be ready then? and it seems cruel for Jesus just after the sacrificing evangelical church has helped bring in the full number of gentiles thus completing its mission to instantly be thrust into the most horrific time in history, worse than holocaust/holdomar/armenian genocide all put together..also Jesus promises gates of hell will not prevail against the church BUT in tribulation that is exactly what happens! how do you explain that? there are far too many antinomies and contradictions and irreconcilable with the post trib and other eschatological positions- also in past persecution always had a point, eg for early church to toughen and prepare to take gospel to hostile pagan countries, etc etc...but the tribulation Christians , dead or alive, go straight into the 1,000 year reign in a near paradisal state, why then the genocide of Christians in the trib?? also "operational" how many TRILLIONS of dollars would Jesus want the church to divert into "prepping" instead of evangelizing??? please DR. dont give us any pablum about Solomon and lillies here... Pastors would have A DUTY to have food for babies and children at very least- adults cab be martyrs and ask for dying grace but babies and children?? and what do us pastors tell our flock here, especially young families with babies and children?? Is your post trib doctrine the message Jesus wants us to preach to them? are you a pastor? do you have a duty to warn and prepare your flock? yes? no? if yes then how are you warning and preparing them? Dr. I mean no disrespect but have you done doctoral level research here or are you just winging it with anecdotal study? Dr. William James and several dozen other scholars have done even POST DOCTORAL work on this subject, have you studied their work? That doesnt "prove: they are right but it does prove they are thorough! The essenes and others were pre trib and arguably most of the early church, they were not looking up daily to the Eastern sky saying maranatha for antichrist to come, they were looking for Jesus to return just as he had left at ascension in the clouds.... I have approx. two dozen text copies of Phd dissertations defending , I think rather well, the pre trib position, would you like copies? Dr. I mean no disrespect but your brief , attenuated defense of your position here is far from scholarly/ maybe you are right but you need to show us a lot more here Dr... I am a retired M.D. but currently studying for my theology doctorate, one of my mentors is William Lane Craig ( a pretty good debater!) ... town vs. gown:Ivy league vs. street: so how much oxygen and insulin and heart meds do we stockpile NOW for granny in the trib or do we just euthanize here? also are pastors just supposed to roll over for antichrist? should we then be training and organizing and arming up... to at least resist, defend our churches and flocks? or is this just an abstract academic debate? ...what are your responses here Dr.? {responding to DR. Jordan B.. Cooper]
***** Hmmm, no teaching about the rapture? Really? We have the redeemed from the whole world in heaven with rewards prior to Rev 6:1-2 and the release of the anti christ
***** The rider on the white horse riding out to conquer is the anti christ Rev 5:9-10 we have the REDEEMED from the whole world with rewards (crowns & white robes) Rewards as given at the bema seat of Jesus as found in 1 Cor 3:12-15 and 2 Cor 5:10 The redeemed aka church are in heaven Prior to the release of the anti christ as found in Rev 6:1-2
+THERAPTURECOMES Those are the saints and martyrs that DIED in all the centuries preceding the coming of the antichrist. They are imploring God to go and start the final judgement. God answers that they had to wait untill their number (of martyrs and saints) was complete! It means that His Church DIES because of the persecutions, for the love of Christ and for the love of those that persecute her, by offering herself as sacrifice for the atonment of sins, imitating his MASTER and SHEPARD JESUS CHRIST!
+Kandinsky Arts You just made the sacrifice of Christ of non affect by saying the church must save itself by its own sacrifice. Do you eveb realize what you have just said?
Blind leading the blind. I guess when John seen Jesus on the throne, it was a metaphor or an analogy, right? There will be a time when a torch and a mountain will hit the earth. In seven years, from the beginning of the tribulation to the battle of Armageddon all but a remnant of humans will be wiped out. Is God’s wrath that He pours out metaphorical or an analogy? Blind with no understanding!
You obviously do not understand apocalyptic literature of the OT that Revelation rest heavily on. The readers of the seven churches would have understood exactly what was meant because this writing style was common place in those days. We need to remove the Westren blinders from our eyes.
@@mattbaldwin247 Thank you so much. So interesting . But why haven't we been told these things ? Can you please give a few references of apocalyptic literature of the OT ?
Well this is going to send a lot of people to hell. People like this guy, are going to be those that the Bible says will go to the gates of heaven and will say to Jesus: didn’t I prophecy in thy name? Didn’t I cast out devils in thy name, etc. Jesus will say depart from me ye who work iniquities, I know you not. This dude is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He has no spiritual discernment and therefore has no understanding when it comes to spiritual things. You know LIKE someone going to hell. Is that an analogy too? 🤦🏻♂️
How would this send people to hell? It’s a tough truth, I came from futurism myself. Sounds so insane, then you dive deep and study and realize how ignorant you were.
@@gamer197730 Getting end times timeline doesnt send you to hell. Rejecting Christ sends you to hell. Nothing here teaches rejecting Christ. The greatest theological minds do not all agree on the time line of end times. Its not a salvation issue.
John points back to the Hebrew Bible up to 350 times in Revelation (I didn't count). But Mr. Witherington is correct in that John refers to Ezekiel, Daniel, and Zechariah repeatedly. It's not intended to be read literally. Who did John write to in particular?? The 7 churches of Asia (Rev 1:4). When was it written?? In the 1st century. John did NOT write to a 21st century society. He had NO idea we would read this today. Therefore, we need to read this thru ancient eyes. The first century Christians were mostly Jews before expanding to the Gentile culture. John was a Jew so he referenced what he could identify with. Babylon was a wealth of experience even though no one alive experienced it. Babylon represented nationalism and national pride, while oppressing others. When we take Revelation literally, there are inconsistencies. Chapter 7 listing the 12 Tribes of Israel do NOT list the 12 Tribes of Israel. And it would be common to list them in birth right order, yet there again, John did not (compare with Genesis 35). There is no need for the world to line up and take the mark of the beast. Doesn't God know His people?? This would be too obvious. John is referring to an 'anti Shema'. The Shema is an ancient prayer beginning with Deuteronomy 6:4-9 where one will identify with God thru one's entire essence of life. So an 'anti Shema' is one who does not give one's all to God. Jesus repeated Deuteronomy 6:5-8 in Matthew 10:37. So we don't need to be concerned about the 'mark' as a tattoo, vaccine, or microchip. It's what's in our heart that identifies who we belong to. The Shema says it's in our hands and forehead, representing our thoughts and actions. Jesus spoke many times about our thoughts and actions. Few understand this.
@@robbracken1758 it was biblical prophecy. It’s to a future in which the antichrist would come. It’s after Israel became a nation. Israel was conquered not too long after Jesus was crucified and didn’t come back to being a nation until 1948. The first 3 chapters are for the churches. The rest is for the tribulation, 1000 year kingdom of Christ, the season that Satan is released to deceive those who made it through the tribulation, the Great White throne judgement, then the eternal kingdom of Christ on the new earth. He has no idea what he’s talking about and you’re deceived.
I am thanking God for influencing the RUclips "algorithms." Sending me Dr. Witherington's lessons is a great blessing.. The more I watch, prayerfully consider and ponder, the more I learn and the better I understand the Kingdom of Christ. Thank you, Dr. Witherington.
I'm a Catholic and this gentleman is teaching me how to interpret the Bible and be a better Catholic.
A "woman" in prophecy represents a church. Read Revelation ch. 17.
The Holy Spirit is the true Teacher of the Bible.
I John
This channel is worth following ❤
The Revelation of Jesus Christ 1:1
Very good! Revelation is definitely metaphorical and John alerts us early in the text of this fact. Interestingly too - many respected teachers over the years have doubted its canonicity including Martin Luther.
Fantastic! Definitely wasn't expecting a reference to Flat Earth and the moon landing being a hoax.
the key to read revelation is with the spirit of God
In reading Revelation you should approach it as you would any other Book of the Bible,using the literal,grammatical,historical,contextual interpretation.The literal interpretation does not mean that you can’t have signs or symbols,but as the speaker said in the video,those symbols are pointing to an actality.As the speaker also said,Scripture interprets Scripture.Infact the best interpreter of Scripture is Scripture.So for example,whenever I read of the woman sitting on seven hills I know that this is a symbol pointing to an actuality.The Scripture goes on to tell us what that actuality is; the woman is a City.Scripture interprets Scripture📖✝️😀
Brother Witherington: You would feel at home in the church of Christ! You describe our Exegesis & Hermeneutics to the dot!
I feel so alone in my BFG class (Bible fellowship group) that believes in Covenant theology. Sad, that Christians believe a lie In dispensation theology
There is an alternative view today, instead of the usual dispensationalist point of view that dominates American Evangelicalism, sometimes referred to as partial preterism. We believe that the Revelation was written to seven churches in Asia, in signs or symbols of events that would begin to take place in the first century. This message of Christ to John, to deliver to these seven churches, is a message of hope, in that it demonstrates the defeat of all enemies of Christ and His church. These enemies were empowered by Satan.
The first enemy, the harlot, or Old Jerusalem was defeated in 70 AD as retribution for spiritual adultery of the Jews, "We have no king but Caesar, crucify Him, let this man's blood be on us and on our children." The harlot was destroyed by the beast whose back she rode, but who hated her.
The beast, which was the Roman Empire with its forced worship of its Caesar as God, was the next enemy to be destroyed. The rider of the white horse, Christ eventually defeated Rome with the gospel message, the sword of the Spirit coming from His mouth, and then against all odds and after much persecution, by the 4th century Christianity had become the national religion of the Roman Empire.
The next enemy which is yet to be destroyed, is Satan himself, who had empowered the previous enemies of Christ. The Holy Spirit in His revelation of truth separates the defeat of the first two enemies (harlot, Old Jerusalem/beast, Roman Empire) from the defeat of Satan by a minimum of 1,000 years. The millennium itself is symbolic, representing a greater period of time than 1,000 years, and thus, it is still happening, and has been happening since the collapse of the Roman system of forced Emperor worship and triumph of the church over the Roman Empire.
Satan then rallies his allies once again at the very end of all things, and attempts to turn the world against Christianity, in order to finally wipe it out, but just before he is successful, Christ intervenes and ends all things. Satan is destroyed, all humanity is resurrected for the final judgment, the final enemy, death is destroyed, and after this, eternity begins for all.
Amen, my feelings exactly on the Bible and its teachings*¤*!
Great
Revelation 1:1, "shortly come to pass;" Greek- "tachei," which always means, "quickness, speed; hastily, immediately." In all of it's translations in the New Testament it is never translated anything but that.
That being said, the first century audience for this writing is specified "to the seven churches which are in Asia." In order to understand this "revealing," you must have knowledge of what these individuals were dealing with. How would anything from our contemporary age have any relevance for persons living 2,000 years ago, in giving them insight on anything that they experienced?
"shortly come to pass" to us means in the news tomorrow.... however, to God, a thousand years is like a day.....and also, a day is like a thousand years..... to Him, the time that He created with it's limitations for us does not parallel the time that is in eternity. Time in our reality is ticking on, controlling every aspect of our existence, but in God's perspective, time is a quantity that is quite small in respect to the unlimited reality of eternity..... I believe the time between the death of Christ and the end of the world equals to the idea that He said ...Romans 9:28 KJV:" For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth." ..... in this generation we are seeing the culmination of that short work.... not short in our eyes, but short in light of eternity.
@@understandingthebible427 to God, a thousand years is like a day. An important thing to look at, is how Daniel was told to seal up his prophesy (Dan 12:4) and John is told not to seal up his prophesy, because the time is near (Rev 22:10) I don’t see why John would be told not to seal up the prophesy, and told the time is near, if it’s at least 2000 years in the future
Exactly. Early Christians could not buy or sell in the first century. In order to market goods, one must burn incense to pagan gods and the emperor. Christians refused, so they had to live outside the community and lived rough lives.
Rob Bracken
That's a crazy generalization.
Josh Jay
You are misunderstanding the meaning of these terms. Sealing something means it is not set to happen in the future, unless it becomes unsealed later. Unsealing something means it is set to happen in the future, unless it becomes sealed. Basically Daniel was told to seal up the prophecy, because Israel was given 70 weeks to "seal up the prophecy" of Jerusalem's destruction. Some prophecies are placed on halt. When the Jews rejected Jesus the Messiah, the prophecy was unsealed. Nineveh was prophesied to be destroyed in 40 days, but when they repented, that prophecy was sealed up.
John was told not to seal the prophecy for the time was at hand for the churches to be judged. It was time for the judgment of God to first start at the house of God. If they didn't repent then the great apostasy would have resulted, in which case the man of lawlessness would have been unveiled.
But they did repent and their candlesticks were not moved out of their place as a result of unrepentance. So the prophecy is sealed until the time when God turns again to judge His house. Remember God will always first give a heads up when He will come to judge his house, just as He did in Revelation 2-3.
Btw, there are certain things which John were told to seal up in Revelation anyway, so why would he do that, if according to you it was to take place soon there it was not sealed?
The whole book is not allegorical or illusion. Some is, but the specifics of the mark, the 144,000 and each judgement are literal. To add or take away from this book comes with a curse (Rev 22)
In addition, there is a blessing in chapter one for all those who read this book and understand it. Probably shouldn’t be the first book a new believer reads, but it should be quick, especially in our current world.
Boy, this episode really attracted the nuts! Personally, i liked it except the idea that newcomers should wait to dive in.... i jumped right in but my walk was nearly derailed because i trusted a certain interpreter too much so be very careful.
That passage you cited about letting judgment flow as waters, and righteousness as mighty stream is Amos 5:24 kjv, let me show you a secret, concealment of thee HS, look up Proverbs 25:2 what does He glory in doing? Look it up first but you will find righteousness is actually JUSTICE here ,read it this way. In a lot of OT passages in KJV of Bible this change is a good change, a concealment designed by HS.
Amos 5:24
24 But let judgment run down as waters, and JUSTICE as a mighty stream.
I know how to o read it I just don't know how to understand it.
Ask The Holy Spirit to show you.
1 John
👍🙏🏻
Amen
Firmament
Me thinks the man that gave you a ride that was on to something....
I think he was probably on something too. Probably Ecstasy or maybe Marijuana?
Should you leave a church when they believe Pre-trib theology? Or just say "even so Lord-come soon? Are pre-tibbers apostates?
If they believe Jesus paid for all our sins on the cross, rose 3 days later and ascended to heaven to sit at the right hand of God and show fruits of that trust, they’re good 👍
@@joel1110 agreed, but pre-tribbers use fear tactics, "we are not given a spirit of fear" pre-tribbers sell fictional books (a-la jenkins, lehaye) movies. these are satans tactics not a loving Gods tactics. Most of Matt 24 happened in AD70. Todays Charismatics and evangelicals exploit the christian low intellectuals who cherry pick scripture.. remember Satan cherry picked scripture too when he tempted Jesus in the desert... Beware about pre-trib theology!
Eschatology has no baring on soteriology (Last days beliefs have no effect on salvation).
@@wayneverret True enough, but it promotes a "Spirit of FEAR" of being left behind... " We are not given a spirit of fear but of a sound mind" - which pre-trib is not sound theology... just like speaking with glossolalia, the typology that believe this baloney are not of sound mind... IMO
Wait wait wait, if Revelation's is a metaphor, then Genesis also has to be a metaphor.
His problem is he doesn't believe what he is reading
Ben witherington is an interesting Scholar. 😂 and I saw!!!
In the book of Revelation, a "woman" represents a church.
The moon landing was shot by Stanley Kubrick
Ok, you really need to stop calling John "John of Patmos." John was on Patmos for a short time. He wrote the Revelation to the 7 actual churches in Asia Minor, 2 of which no longer exist, in the mid-60s, and was able to leave Patmos in 68 or shortly thereafter when Nero died. John the Apostle or John the Revelator are more appropriate.
Now just saying but it says in Revelation 20:9. That the devil and his men when up on the breadth of the Earth, and compassed the camp of the saints. Look it up the word breadth means the distance or measurement from side to side of something: width. Like the boat measured. 28 feet in breadth.
Just saying
Do not trust man when it comes to God's word. Get a companion bible and a strongs concordance and ask the Lord to open your understanding.
Good Stuff - yet, totally disagree with “if you are new don’t start reading Revelation.” On the contrary, read Revelation first and then say, “the rest of your Bible reading will interpret it for you.”
response to post trib prof: wrong: polycarp, eusebius, psuedo ephraim, antiochus, and a dozen other early church fathers/martyrs were pre trib and expressly so, so were the pilgrims, the plymouth brethren, the Chinese watchmen (millions) , most of dutch protestant church, (there are some good PHd dissertations on all of these) ...many of the mentors long before Schofield and darby, ..this proves nothing more than simply it is not a new doctrine... but imminency arguably comes right from Jesus' own red letter words! and all the parables to watch, be ready , oil in lamp, twinkling of an eye, thief in the night, at a time ye think not, no man knows day or hour etc etc...all ring hollow if Jesus doesnt return until the very end of the tribulation...very few ChristiaNS WILL EVEN BE ALIVE THEN after being starved,tortured, gai,///ng//ray//p//ed, beheaded...... why do we need to watch and be ready then? and it seems cruel for Jesus just after the sacrificing evangelical church has helped bring in the full number of gentiles thus completing its mission to instantly be thrust into the most horrific time in history, worse than holocaust/holdomar/armenian genocide all put together..also Jesus promises gates of hell will not prevail against the church BUT in tribulation that is exactly what happens! how do you explain that? there are far too many antinomies and contradictions and irreconcilable with the post trib and other eschatological positions- also in past persecution always had a point, eg for early church to toughen and prepare to take gospel to hostile pagan countries, etc etc...but the tribulation Christians , dead or alive, go straight into the 1,000 year reign in a near paradisal state, why then the genocide of Christians in the trib?? also "operational" how many TRILLIONS of dollars would Jesus want the church to divert into "prepping" instead of evangelizing??? please DR. dont give us any pablum about Solomon and lillies here... Pastors would have A DUTY to have food for babies and children at very least- adults cab be martyrs and ask for dying grace but babies and children?? and what do us pastors tell our flock here, especially young families with babies and children?? Is your post trib doctrine the message Jesus wants us to preach to them? are you a pastor? do you have a duty to warn and prepare your flock? yes? no? if yes then how are you warning and preparing them? Dr. I mean no disrespect but have you done doctoral level research here or are you just winging it with anecdotal study? Dr. William James and several dozen other scholars have done even POST DOCTORAL work on this subject, have you studied their work? That doesnt "prove: they are right but it does prove they are thorough! The essenes and others were pre trib and arguably most of the early church, they were not looking up daily to the Eastern sky saying maranatha for antichrist to come, they were looking for Jesus to return just as he had left at ascension in the clouds.... I have approx. two dozen text copies of Phd dissertations defending , I think rather well, the pre trib position, would you like copies? Dr. I mean no disrespect but your brief , attenuated defense of your position here is far from scholarly/ maybe you are right but you need to show us a lot more here Dr... I am a retired M.D. but currently studying for my theology doctorate, one of my mentors is William Lane Craig ( a pretty good debater!) ... town vs. gown:Ivy league vs. street: so how much oxygen and insulin and heart meds do we stockpile NOW for granny in the trib or do we just euthanize here? also are pastors just supposed to roll over for antichrist? should we then be training and organizing and arming up... to at least resist, defend our churches and flocks? or is this just an abstract academic debate? ...what are your responses here Dr.? {responding to DR. Jordan B.. Cooper]
Except they didn't land on the moon. The old man was right about that .
So what I gathered fro this is almost nothing. No real teaching
***** Hmmm, no teaching about the rapture? Really? We have the redeemed from the whole world in heaven with rewards prior to Rev 6:1-2 and the release of the anti christ
***** The rider on the white horse riding out to conquer is the anti christ
Rev 5:9-10 we have the REDEEMED from the whole world with rewards (crowns & white robes)
Rewards as given at the bema seat of Jesus as found in 1 Cor 3:12-15 and 2 Cor 5:10
The redeemed aka church are in heaven Prior to the release of the anti christ as found in Rev 6:1-2
1 Thes 4:13-18, 1 Cor 15:50-55, John 14:1-3, 1 Thes 1:10, Romans 5:9, Rev 3:10
+THERAPTURECOMES Those are the saints and martyrs that DIED in all the centuries preceding the coming of the antichrist. They are imploring God to go and start the final judgement. God answers that they had to wait untill their number (of martyrs and saints) was complete!
It means that His Church DIES because of the persecutions, for the love of Christ and for the love of those that persecute her, by offering herself as sacrifice for the atonment of sins, imitating his MASTER and SHEPARD JESUS CHRIST!
+Kandinsky Arts You just made the sacrifice of Christ of non affect by saying the church must save itself by its own sacrifice.
Do you eveb realize what you have just said?
Blind leading the blind. I guess when John seen Jesus on the throne, it was a metaphor or an analogy, right? There will be a time when a torch and a mountain will hit the earth. In seven years, from the beginning of the tribulation to the battle of Armageddon all but a remnant of humans will be wiped out. Is God’s wrath that He pours out metaphorical or an analogy? Blind with no understanding!
You obviously do not understand apocalyptic literature of the OT that Revelation rest heavily on. The readers of the seven churches would have understood exactly what was meant because this writing style was common place in those days. We need to remove the Westren blinders from our eyes.
@@mattbaldwin247
Thank you so much. So interesting . But why haven't we been told these things ?
Can you please give a few references of apocalyptic literature of the OT ?
Well this is going to send a lot of people to hell. People like this guy, are going to be those that the Bible says will go to the gates of heaven and will say to Jesus: didn’t I prophecy in thy name? Didn’t I cast out devils in thy name, etc. Jesus will say depart from me ye who work iniquities, I know you not. This dude is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He has no spiritual discernment and therefore has no understanding when it comes to spiritual things. You know LIKE someone going to hell. Is that an analogy too? 🤦🏻♂️
How would this send people to hell? It’s a tough truth, I came from futurism myself. Sounds so insane, then you dive deep and study and realize how ignorant you were.
@@Jus4kiks it’s not biblical. It’s false. It’s not sound/correct doctrine.
@@gamer197730 Getting end times timeline doesnt send you to hell. Rejecting Christ sends you to hell. Nothing here teaches rejecting Christ. The greatest theological minds do not all agree on the time line of end times. Its not a salvation issue.
John points back to the Hebrew Bible up to 350 times in Revelation (I didn't count). But Mr. Witherington is correct in that John refers to Ezekiel, Daniel, and Zechariah repeatedly.
It's not intended to be read literally. Who did John write to in particular?? The 7 churches of Asia (Rev 1:4). When was it written?? In the 1st century.
John did NOT write to a 21st century society. He had NO idea we would read this today. Therefore, we need to read this thru ancient eyes.
The first century Christians were mostly Jews before expanding to the Gentile culture. John was a Jew so he referenced what he could identify with. Babylon was a wealth of experience even though no one alive experienced it. Babylon represented nationalism and national pride, while oppressing others.
When we take Revelation literally, there are inconsistencies. Chapter 7 listing the 12 Tribes of Israel do NOT list the 12 Tribes of Israel. And it would be common to list them in birth right order, yet there again, John did not (compare with Genesis 35).
There is no need for the world to line up and take the mark of the beast. Doesn't God know His people?? This would be too obvious. John is referring to an 'anti Shema'.
The Shema is an ancient prayer beginning with Deuteronomy 6:4-9 where one will identify with God thru one's entire essence of life. So an 'anti Shema' is one who does not give one's all to God. Jesus repeated Deuteronomy 6:5-8 in Matthew 10:37.
So we don't need to be concerned about the 'mark' as a tattoo, vaccine, or microchip. It's what's in our heart that identifies who we belong to. The Shema says it's in our hands and forehead, representing our thoughts and actions.
Jesus spoke many times about our thoughts and actions. Few understand this.
@@robbracken1758 it was biblical prophecy. It’s to a future in which the antichrist would come. It’s after Israel became a nation. Israel was conquered not too long after Jesus was crucified and didn’t come back to being a nation until 1948. The first 3 chapters are for the churches. The rest is for the tribulation, 1000 year kingdom of Christ, the season that Satan is released to deceive those who made it through the tribulation, the Great White throne judgement, then the eternal kingdom of Christ on the new earth. He has no idea what he’s talking about and you’re deceived.