So good! I always feel I have to defend myself for mentioning ANYTHING about the apocrypha. It can be frustrating. I love all the things he points out that agree and testify of the truth of the BOM. Always love hearing from Jonah!
Just like any scripture, the apocrypha must be approached with the spirit, prayer, and seeking of truth and enlightenment. And compare it to revealed truth and doctrine from the Book of Mormon. Use the Book of Mormon as a lens to view all writings claimed to be scripture. D&C 91 1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you concerning the Apocrypha-There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly; 2 There are many things contained therein that are not true, which are interpolations by the hands of men. 3 Verily, I say unto you, that it is not needful that the Apocrypha should be translated. 4 Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth; 5 And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom; 6 And whoso receiveth not by the Spirit, cannot be benefited. Therefore it is not needful that it should be translated. Amen.
Just make sure you check these texts out for yourself. He says a lot of stuff I agree with, but he’s recently made a highly questionable claim that isn’t even supported by two of the texts he cited in his argument (this was verbal, not a written argument). And it didn’t seem like he checked his findings agains the BoM in that case, either, because he never once cited BoM scripture in his argument (which, again, does not seem to support his newest claim, and definitely seems to contradict his conclusion).
I couldn’t find the other texts he was citing/I don’t read old Slavonic either. It sounded like some of the texts are available in scripture notes, but I do not have a subscription to that service. Regardless, he made a HUGE claim, and didn’t go through the texts in question or highlight the applicable verses, merely regurgitated things he remembered reading from those texts. Those who have commented with questions asking for specific citations have been met with silence on that video. As have arguments to the contrary and verses of restoration scripture to the contrary. Perhaps he’s planning another book about it and that’s why hes not entertained any contrarian comments, but it seems like somewhat sloppy scholarship on his part, to have not at least had the verses in question ready to show as he made his case.
Oh my goodness, you two are so awesome. Thank you so much for having done so much research and sharing the information you found. I've rarely ever been so excited about reading a book as yours. I might actually buy a book. Can't say I've ever actually paid for a book before lol. Thanks again for all the two of you have done. I loved this video.
Jonah is the Batman detective of the apocryphas Meghan love your insight and so glad I found your channel I lost it with Isaiah😢 Jonah, I need your book in audio format. Go ahead and read it yourself Thank you both for doing the work to keep all us up to date on things we do not have time for
Jonah, Thank You! One of the first things that gave me peace, was realizing Jesus said, "Ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ὁδὸς ( road )." For years, I thought it said, "Way." That's when the Lord explained, "Why do you think everyone has to be born. Because it's through the road ( which involves a journey: love is patient), that understanding comes. Some are born Hindu; some are born atheists. Regardless, you have to go through this journey of being exposed to harmful things, learning to live right, choose right. Fixing all this is a journey, the reason I will reign 1,000 years, another journey. Nothing ever comes instantly; there is a journey of suffering for everyone. Will you give in or give up? It's through that journey, you learn truth. Anyone who says, We have it, is a liar, because truth never stops. Creation is an ongoing process, and through creation, there is change. Commit to the journey, begin learning truth, then life comes." (edited: journey is such a big part, I forgot it means road, yet journey is what the person does on that road. Every time I become frustrated, going to court even when the Lord tells me, the judge is senile, won't rule right, but you will learn something, I have to remind myself: journey. )
Hell yeah! Love this Jonah Barnes guy, MUCH cooler than the Bonah Jarnes guy, that guy hasn't even written a book before! Excited for his book (Jonah Barnes, not Bonah Jarnes)
Modern non-canonical works and authors frequently quoted in General Conference include: Lectures on Faith (Originally the "doctrine" part of Doctrine and Covenants) Hugh Nibley C. S. Lewis: Mere Christianity, The Silver Chair Dietrich Bonhoeffer: Letters and Papers from Prison N.T. Wright Why are we afraid to teach one another out of the best books? It is the Holy Ghost who witnesses of truth, not an arbitrary list of books. Another book I would love to hear quoted is Leo Tolstoy's The Kingdom of God is within You
I read the Book of Jasher front to back over a weekend. Jasher exactly corroborated by for most of Genesis, but it gives a whole lot more detail about the lives of the characters. Did you know that after being sold to the Midianites, Joseph prayed at his mother’s gravestone and heard her voice from beyond? Did you know Jacob never bought the story of Joseph’s death? (A wolf ratted out the 10) did you know Judah, Simeon, Reuben and Lehi all had powers like Sampson? Seriously, we could just about swap out Genesis, plug in Jasper, and we’d lose nothing but gain TONS!
I think people also need to read Joseph’s last sermon I believe the king follet sermon. He said there are tons of things I want to tell you that he knows, but he said I can’t because if I do you will kill me where I stand. Joseph smith said if I tell my followers that are lds what I know they will kill me. So sure you can say Brigham got somethings wrong, and others are improving the church today with new revelations. But you can’t prove or know what’s known but not taught. Imagine for instance if church leaders knew Jesus had a wife. They couldn’t teach that without having a horrible PR nightmare and perhaps some people getting violent especially in the past. Idk about the Adam god theory or other things. But Joseph smith clearly knew there were some truths and doctrine that if taught would cause church leadership to be stoned by the members since that’s what he taught. It’s like sure people should know what’s official teachings and not, but like if the king follet sermon is right then there’s things leaders know that are so offensive or incongruent with what people believe that they can’t teach it. It’s kind of crazy to think about.
Also the apocryphal books I think I read Joseph was told not to update or fix them with revelation but that those reading witj the Holy Ghost will know what’s true. It’s like I really wish he would have updated it haha. It’s like were there giants from angels mating with humans or was it the atmosphere? The Christian creation non profit in Texas used a chamber with increased atmospheric pressure and oxygen and got dragonflies to grow like 20% larger. If earth had a different atmosphere and radiation or whatever variables are needed humans and animals maybe grew way bigger. Some call it a vapor canopy but it’s not talked about in the Bible and gen. 6 says giants came from angels crossbreeding. Then ya got Moses having spies go into Canaan and the spies returned saying they were like grasshoppers. Maybe that’s figurative but like if they were five feet and If people in Canaan were only 7 feet like I wouldn’t say it makes sense to describe yourself as a grasshopper. You’d think they’d be a lot taller or something. Does the apocryphal explain it?
Cool! Thank you. And I thought the Ascension of Isaiah and Ethiopic Enoch were awesome too in that they added so much more detail. The condescension of Jehovah was so cool to read about in that he truly "descended below all things" but doing it like a Black Ops dude in disguise. So cool. Need to add Jasher to that list.
I think it is the same for our time, there are things that should be in the Church and things that shouldn't. Brigham got a number of things wrong blood atonement, treatment of Blacks, treatment of women, polygamy being needed to attain the highest kingdom, Adam God theory. More current changes: using the name Mormon to describe Christ Church, the back and forth of how to include families with different sexual orientations in them. The changes in our Temple ceremonies seems to get better and better too. I like that our prophet said the Restoration is ongoing.
I believe he used the word ongoing because, "we screwed up and were slowly going back to the beginning to what Joseph Smith brought through the Book of Mormon", just wouldn't sound good.
Jacbox I think you need to read Joseph’s last sermon I believe the king follet sermon. He said there are tons of things I want to tell you that he knows, but he said I can’t because if I do you will kill me where I stand. Joseph smith said if I tell my followers that are lds what I know they will kill me. So sure you can say Brigham got somethings wrong, and others are improving the church today with new revelations. But you can’t prove or know what’s known but not taught. Imagine for instance if church leaders knew Jesus had a wife. They couldn’t teach that without having a horrible PR nightmare and perhaps some people getting violent especially in the past. Idk about the Adam god theory or other things. But Joseph smith clearly knew there were some truths and doctrine that if taught would cause church leadership to be stoned by the members since that’s what he taught.
I always appreciate you Megan. There is so much to be said about the apocrypha and Joseph Smith‘s thoughts about it. So many truths to be had in those writings. I can’t take this speaker seriously (too much coolness factor).
This was awesome. I’m looking forward to reading Jonah’s book. I’d also love to see Jonah talk to someone outside of the church, especially the Hello Saints guy, because so many evangelicals have disdain for our doctrine on the Great Apostasy, and I feel that could be cleared up if they understood the the Great Forsakening. Anyway, thanks for sharing!
Considering many of them have an inerrant and “God breathed” view of the Bible, I don’t see any such conversations as being fruitful in the way you hope. Probably, it would just solidify their beliefs about our “misguided ways” and “woeful midunderstanding” of God and scripture.
Would you please be able to do an episode on more scriptures. As the recent ojibwe/book of Mormon conference brought up so interesting things too. Also the nemenhah records (book, second complete edition), as i had a vision before reading it, during reading it, and after reading it, to which christ said "dont persecute my people the nemenhah." I would be very interested in other peoples experiences.
Early apostle Erastus Snow pointed out Eve having not been created at the time the commandments was given, and if I remember correctly used this point to say there's less blame on Eve. There's further light and knowledge available on this. For one, look at the difference between the questions asked of each of them. See what Adam was asked and what Eve was not asked.
Also, Adam and Eve knew about family structures before they left the Garden and before having their own family. Speaking of satan, 'you my BROTHER come to dissuade me to disobey My Fathers Commandments! Or how about God does not interfere with marriage choices even before this world was..soooo looks as though there were relationships of families in the Pre Existence, even agreed vows and then were assigned as help-meets in a paradisiacal order and husband and wife sealings in the Everlasting Gospel after it was preached to Adam and Eve, after they left the Garden. Let us not forget that Lucifer thwarted his own plan by telling Eve to give the forbidden fruit to Adam. Had he said to Eve "dont tell Adam what you have done and whatever you do dont give him the fruit, then his destructive plan would have been fulfilled, but being the intelligent dummy he is, he messed up and for good reasons, thats why we are all here
I like how we just casually mentioned and moved past the condescension of Christ disguising himself to get through heaven to perform the atonement. That grabbed my attention lol I want to know more
Jonah’s comments about the scribes extolling the law at the expense of the messiah reminded me of Zechariah’s vision about a flying scroll. He openly and brazenly calls the scribes liars and thieves! See the first few verses of Zechariah 5 and Jeremiah 7:11.
And if you want something that directly supports the Book of Mormon go read the Nemenhah Records from the Mentinah Archives. Church has it in its Church History Catalog.
Genesis 2: 16-17 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. And then after those versus… Genesis 2: 21-23 21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Woman didn’t come until after the command… It is the same in the book of Moses 3
In the Nemenhah records, specifically within the Relation of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, it states that Heavenly Father and Mother needed each other to create, and have different roles. Heavenly Father has the power to organize matter, but Heavenly Mother gives it life, and is refered to the quickener of all things. Thus Eve is the Mother of All Living (mankind, animals, plants, etc.) in the similitude of Heavenly Mother. She was named mother after Heavenly Mother, who is the eternal Mother of all living, the quickener, and this is the priesthood power given to women from before the foundations of the world, to bring lives into this mortal realm through the sacrifice and renting of their own bodies, blood, water, and deliver spirits into this world with mortal bodies. A similitude of the great sacrifice of Christ who through his sacrifice of his own body, blood, and water, the renting of the temple veil at his death, brings us new birth, new life through the resurrection into a new immortal realm when the time comes, whether it be bodies telestial, terrestrial, or celestial.
In their state of innocence, Eve was beguiled, they were not all wise otherwise they would have known that there is a proper way to partake of the fruit, that there was a plan.
Adam and Eve "fell." ie the Hebrew word means rebelled. There was a curse, and it was a curse on the land (sweat of thy brow, thorns, thistles, etc.), and this type of cursing is also seen with Cain for killing Abel (the earth would no longer yield up her strength), with the pre-flood Canaanites (scorched, barren land), and so on. Not only do the Bible and BoM support this, but also the other patterns in scripture including the Crucifixion when you begin to see all its symbolism (for example, it's not a coincidence that He wore a crown of thorns, and there is other imagery of the Garden in the Crucifixion).
Jonah, I think it's important you tell exactly which lost book and verse you are referring to, because some of the lost books make Eve look really bad.
So really, like a Father and Mother, you teach the principle, but it took until Eve figured it out, she pondered, thought about things, and likely through the Spirit discerned what she needed to do. Then, with divine wisdom bestowed from Heavenly Mother, she kicked off the whole plan of Happiness, and guided Adam to jump in with both feet. So, like the natives believe about the feather, the female part is wise and gives direction, while the male part doses the work and provides lift and movement.
Interesting idea, that the brass plates contained apocryphal texts that BoM authors leveraged. I’ll be interested to see any response from the scholarly community. But IMHO most of this one-sided interview ranges from Jonah confidently overplaying his hand to enthusiastically finding shapes in proverbial clouds and inferring intentionality. Red flags go up for me when someone purports to have all the answers. Still, an interesting idea worth critical exploration.
40:23 listen, I’ve got nothing but love and respect for Jonah Barnes. Love the guy to death. But hearing his take on the Adam & Eve / Garden of Eden story makes me realize why so many faiths have rejected the apocrypha as inspired. It’s either… there was need to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so their eyes could be opened *as it states in the temple OR Eve was the brilliant wise mastermind that had the ability to somehow see beyond the garden of Eden and fully grasp all of the consequences without having partaken of the fruit. They both can’t be true. Also, I know that Jonah has a very light hearted personality. It’s what makes him so delightful, so I’ll cut him some slack, but I don’t like the portrayal of Adam as some bumbling oaf that goes with the “wisdom” of the all knowing Eve and is lead along like a puppy. I disagree. I don’t see anything wrong with Eve being beguiled. It doesn’t mean that she is dumb. It doesn’t mean that women are unwise or inferior. It illustrates that Satan is the master of deception and has the ability to lead anyone astray. It demonstrates his power, which we, as Latter Day Saints, should take very seriously. That said, Love you Jonah! Can’t wait to get the book.
@@gingersnaps215 ? I watch a couple LDS channels because I find it amusing how different it is now from when I was growing up. It's like a different religion
It's a good thing this guy is Jonah Barnes, not Jonah Barns, or even worse, Bonah Jarnes (that guy sucks!) This Jonah Barnes guy here though is great! He's a scriptorian and he's pretty damn funny if you have a sense of humor 😄
@MichaelGMoney Just don't disagree with him or share a view he hasn't heard. In other words, don't be different. Worship the ground he walks on and you're in good shape👍😅
@misfyresalot Yes💯. He is definitely one of them!! If you get him into a conversation he doesn't agree, or ask a question he doesn't like, he'll turn into 12 year old mentality and attack. I've seen him go rogue in too many conversations where he got downright personal and went right to name calling over such insignificant things. He's great at discussion as long as he's right and no one challenges him.
@StompMom5 Maybe so! I haven't received that vibe from him yet. He is on Ward Radio and he doesn't seem to behave that way there. I guess we all have an Achilles Heel. I bet we all have a chink in our armor and need to do our own personal work. I'm okay listening to someone and their opinion. I can come away understanding them better and myself. I don't have to agree with anyone but Christ. I have a responsibility to live, forgive, and reserve judgement. He is a child of God that is imperfect just like you and I. Maybe it would be good to reach out to him personally letting him know that he presents himself in a manner that offends you. We all have things to work on. If it doesn't go well you will know you have done your part as a child of God.
So good! I always feel I have to defend myself for mentioning ANYTHING about the apocrypha. It can be frustrating. I love all the things he points out that agree and testify of the truth of the BOM. Always love hearing from Jonah!
Just like any scripture, the apocrypha must be approached with the spirit, prayer, and seeking of truth and enlightenment. And compare it to revealed truth and doctrine from the Book of Mormon. Use the Book of Mormon as a lens to view all writings claimed to be scripture.
D&C 91
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you concerning the Apocrypha-There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly;
2 There are many things contained therein that are not true, which are interpolations by the hands of men.
3 Verily, I say unto you, that it is not needful that the Apocrypha should be translated.
4 Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth;
5 And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom;
6 And whoso receiveth not by the Spirit, cannot be benefited. Therefore it is not needful that it should be translated. Amen.
I just discovered this podcast because I saw Jonah Barnes’ picture. I could listen to him every day! Love him!!!
Just make sure you check these texts out for yourself. He says a lot of stuff I agree with, but he’s recently made a highly questionable claim that isn’t even supported by two of the texts he cited in his argument (this was verbal, not a written argument). And it didn’t seem like he checked his findings agains the BoM in that case, either, because he never once cited BoM scripture in his argument (which, again, does not seem to support his newest claim, and definitely seems to contradict his conclusion).
I couldn’t find the other texts he was citing/I don’t read old Slavonic either. It sounded like some of the texts are available in scripture notes, but I do not have a subscription to that service.
Regardless, he made a HUGE claim, and didn’t go through the texts in question or highlight the applicable verses, merely regurgitated things he remembered reading from those texts. Those who have commented with questions asking for specific citations have been met with silence on that video. As have arguments to the contrary and verses of restoration scripture to the contrary. Perhaps he’s planning another book about it and that’s why hes not entertained any contrarian comments, but it seems like somewhat sloppy scholarship on his part, to have not at least had the verses in question ready to show as he made his case.
@@gingersnaps215 nah, how could Jonah Barnes lead us astray?! He's clearly very knowledgeable and even wrote a book on this stuff! I'd trust him
Jonah is the best! Great episode. Can’t wait for his book to arrive. Really looking forward to reading it.
Just bought the book!! Thx Meghan for another thought provoking and enlightening podcast.
Oh my goodness, you two are so awesome. Thank you so much for having done so much research and sharing the information you found. I've rarely ever been so excited about reading a book as yours. I might actually buy a book. Can't say I've ever actually paid for a book before lol. Thanks again for all the two of you have done. I loved this video.
Such a cool episode!! 🎉
I happen to be a currently-serving bishop and, for the record, I think this podcast-and ward radio!-are great 😉
“We are at the mercy of the last editor “. Well said!
Very interesting episode. I enjoyed it. 😊 Eve always knew there was truly no other way.
Jonah is the Batman detective of the apocryphas
Meghan love your insight and so glad I found your channel
I lost it with Isaiah😢
Jonah, I need your book in audio format. Go ahead and read it yourself
Thank you both for doing the work to keep all us up to date on things we do not have time for
Love Jonah Barnes the associate professor of all things apocryphal! ❤
Jonah, Thank You! One of the first things that gave me peace, was realizing Jesus said, "Ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ὁδὸς ( road )." For years, I thought it said, "Way." That's when the Lord explained, "Why do you think everyone has to be born. Because it's through the road ( which involves a journey: love is patient), that understanding comes. Some are born Hindu; some are born atheists. Regardless, you have to go through this journey of being exposed to harmful things, learning to live right, choose right. Fixing all this is a journey, the reason I will reign 1,000 years, another journey. Nothing ever comes instantly; there is a journey of suffering for everyone. Will you give in or give up? It's through that journey, you learn truth. Anyone who says, We have it, is a liar, because truth never stops. Creation is an ongoing process, and through creation, there is change. Commit to the journey, begin learning truth, then life comes." (edited: journey is such a big part, I forgot it means road, yet journey is what the person does on that road. Every time I become frustrated, going to court even when the Lord tells me, the judge is senile, won't rule right, but you will learn something, I have to remind myself: journey. )
Hell yeah! Love this Jonah Barnes guy, MUCH cooler than the Bonah Jarnes guy, that guy hasn't even written a book before! Excited for his book (Jonah Barnes, not Bonah Jarnes)
Great podcast, thanks for sharing ❤❤
That was awesome, looking forward to reading your book Brother Barnes!
Modern non-canonical works and authors frequently quoted in General Conference include:
Lectures on Faith (Originally the "doctrine" part of Doctrine and Covenants)
Hugh Nibley
C. S. Lewis: Mere Christianity, The Silver Chair
Dietrich Bonhoeffer: Letters and Papers from Prison
N.T. Wright
Why are we afraid to teach one another out of the best books?
It is the Holy Ghost who witnesses of truth, not an arbitrary list of books.
Another book I would love to hear quoted is Leo Tolstoy's The Kingdom of God is within You
This guy's credentials are incredible 🙏😂
I read the Book of Jasher front to back over a weekend. Jasher exactly corroborated by for most of Genesis, but it gives a whole lot more detail about the lives of the characters. Did you know that after being sold to the Midianites, Joseph prayed at his mother’s gravestone and heard her voice from beyond? Did you know Jacob never bought the story of Joseph’s death? (A wolf ratted out the 10) did you know Judah, Simeon, Reuben and Lehi all had powers like Sampson? Seriously, we could just about swap out Genesis, plug in Jasper, and we’d lose nothing but gain TONS!
I think people also need to read Joseph’s last sermon I believe the king follet sermon. He said there are tons of things I want to tell you that he knows, but he said I can’t because if I do you will kill me where I stand. Joseph smith said if I tell my followers that are lds what I know they will kill me.
So sure you can say Brigham got somethings wrong, and others are improving the church today with new revelations. But you can’t prove or know what’s known but not taught. Imagine for instance if church leaders knew Jesus had a wife. They couldn’t teach that without having a horrible PR nightmare and perhaps some people getting violent especially in the past. Idk about the Adam god theory or other things. But Joseph smith clearly knew there were some truths and doctrine that if taught would cause church leadership to be stoned by the members since that’s what he taught.
It’s like sure people should know what’s official teachings and not, but like if the king follet sermon is right then there’s things leaders know that are so offensive or incongruent with what people believe that they can’t teach it. It’s kind of crazy to think about.
Also the apocryphal books I think I read Joseph was told not to update or fix them with revelation but that those reading witj the Holy Ghost will know what’s true.
It’s like I really wish he would have updated it haha. It’s like were there giants from angels mating with humans or was it the atmosphere? The Christian creation non profit in Texas used a chamber with increased atmospheric pressure and oxygen and got dragonflies to grow like 20% larger. If earth had a different atmosphere and radiation or whatever variables are needed humans and animals maybe grew way bigger. Some call it a vapor canopy but it’s not talked about in the Bible and gen. 6 says giants came from angels crossbreeding. Then ya got Moses having spies go into Canaan and the spies returned saying they were like grasshoppers. Maybe that’s figurative but like if they were five feet and If people in Canaan were only 7 feet like I wouldn’t say it makes sense to describe yourself as a grasshopper. You’d think they’d be a lot taller or something. Does the apocryphal explain it?
Cool! Thank you. And I thought the Ascension of Isaiah and Ethiopic Enoch were awesome too in that they added so much more detail. The condescension of Jehovah was so cool to read about in that he truly "descended below all things" but doing it like a Black Ops dude in disguise. So cool. Need to add Jasher to that list.
I think it is the same for our time, there are things that should be in the Church and things that shouldn't. Brigham got a number of things wrong blood atonement, treatment of Blacks, treatment of women, polygamy being needed to attain the highest kingdom, Adam God theory. More current changes: using the name Mormon to describe Christ Church, the back and forth of how to include families with different sexual orientations in them. The changes in our Temple ceremonies seems to get better and better too. I like that our prophet said the Restoration is ongoing.
I believe he used the word ongoing because, "we screwed up and were slowly going back to the beginning to what Joseph Smith brought through the Book of Mormon", just wouldn't sound good.
Jacbox
I think you need to read Joseph’s last sermon I believe the king follet sermon. He said there are tons of things I want to tell you that he knows, but he said I can’t because if I do you will kill me where I stand. Joseph smith said if I tell my followers that are lds what I know they will kill me.
So sure you can say Brigham got somethings wrong, and others are improving the church today with new revelations. But you can’t prove or know what’s known but not taught. Imagine for instance if church leaders knew Jesus had a wife. They couldn’t teach that without having a horrible PR nightmare and perhaps some people getting violent especially in the past. Idk about the Adam god theory or other things. But Joseph smith clearly knew there were some truths and doctrine that if taught would cause church leadership to be stoned by the members since that’s what he taught.
Those who read the Apocrypha with the Holy Ghost will benefit from it. Paraphrasing the Doctrine and Covenants.
Nice content! Love it! Thank you. ❤😊
Great as always!
Pre ordered the book!
I always appreciate you Megan. There is so much to be said about the apocrypha and Joseph Smith‘s thoughts about it. So many truths to be had in those writings.
I can’t take this speaker seriously (too much coolness factor).
This was awesome. I’m looking forward to reading Jonah’s book. I’d also love to see Jonah talk to someone outside of the church, especially the Hello Saints guy, because so many evangelicals have disdain for our doctrine on the Great Apostasy, and I feel that could be cleared up if they understood the the Great Forsakening. Anyway, thanks for sharing!
Considering many of them have an inerrant and “God breathed” view of the Bible, I don’t see any such conversations as being fruitful in the way you hope. Probably, it would just solidify their beliefs about our “misguided ways” and “woeful midunderstanding” of God and scripture.
Would you please be able to do an episode on more scriptures. As the recent ojibwe/book of Mormon conference brought up so interesting things too. Also the nemenhah records (book, second complete edition), as i had a vision before reading it, during reading it, and after reading it, to which christ said "dont persecute my people the nemenhah." I would be very interested in other peoples experiences.
Early apostle Erastus Snow pointed out Eve having not been created at the time the commandments was given, and if I remember correctly used this point to say there's less blame on Eve.
There's further light and knowledge available on this. For one, look at the difference between the questions asked of each of them. See what Adam was asked and what Eve was not asked.
Also, Adam and Eve knew about family structures before they left the Garden and before having their own family. Speaking of satan, 'you my BROTHER come to dissuade me to disobey My Fathers Commandments!
Or how about God does not interfere with marriage choices even before this world was..soooo looks as though there were relationships of families in the Pre Existence, even agreed vows and then were assigned as help-meets in a paradisiacal order and husband and wife sealings in the Everlasting Gospel after it was preached to Adam and Eve, after they left the Garden.
Let us not forget that Lucifer thwarted his own plan by telling Eve to give the forbidden fruit to Adam. Had he said to Eve "dont tell Adam what you have done and whatever you do dont give him the fruit, then his destructive plan would have been fulfilled, but being the intelligent dummy he is, he messed up and for good reasons, thats why we are all here
The Lord does teach “ question, even the existence of God”. When you question he will show you he is here.
I like how we just casually mentioned and moved past the condescension of Christ disguising himself to get through heaven to perform the atonement. That grabbed my attention lol I want to know more
Jonah’s comments about the scribes extolling the law at the expense of the messiah reminded me of Zechariah’s vision about a flying scroll. He openly and brazenly calls the scribes liars and thieves! See the first few verses of Zechariah 5 and Jeremiah 7:11.
And if you want something that directly supports the Book of Mormon go read the Nemenhah Records from the Mentinah Archives. Church has it in its Church History Catalog.
Also yes eve is present when the command is given to not partake of the fruit
Genesis 2: 16-17
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
And then after those versus…
Genesis 2: 21-23
21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Woman didn’t come until after the command…
It is the same in the book of Moses 3
In the Nemenhah records, specifically within the Relation of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, it states that Heavenly Father and Mother needed each other to create, and have different roles. Heavenly Father has the power to organize matter, but Heavenly Mother gives it life, and is refered to the quickener of all things. Thus Eve is the Mother of All Living (mankind, animals, plants, etc.) in the similitude of Heavenly Mother. She was named mother after Heavenly Mother, who is the eternal Mother of all living, the quickener, and this is the priesthood power given to women from before the foundations of the world, to bring lives into this mortal realm through the sacrifice and renting of their own bodies, blood, water, and deliver spirits into this world with mortal bodies. A similitude of the great sacrifice of Christ who through his sacrifice of his own body, blood, and water, the renting of the temple veil at his death, brings us new birth, new life through the resurrection into a new immortal realm when the time comes, whether it be bodies telestial, terrestrial, or celestial.
Nemenhah records are a misrepresentation of truth and not sanctioned as canon but writings of uninspired men
In their state of innocence, Eve was beguiled, they were not all wise otherwise they would have known that there is a proper way to partake of the fruit, that there was a plan.
Adam and Eve "fell." ie the Hebrew word means rebelled. There was a curse, and it was a curse on the land (sweat of thy brow, thorns, thistles, etc.), and this type of cursing is also seen with Cain for killing Abel (the earth would no longer yield up her strength), with the pre-flood Canaanites (scorched, barren land), and so on. Not only do the Bible and BoM support this, but also the other patterns in scripture including the Crucifixion when you begin to see all its symbolism (for example, it's not a coincidence that He wore a crown of thorns, and there is other imagery of the Garden in the Crucifixion).
Jonah, I think it's important you tell exactly which lost book and verse you are referring to, because some of the lost books make Eve look really bad.
He doesn't care
lol glad to see Jonah got the confidence back to use the fake book shelf background after kwaku schooled him on ward radio about it 😂
So really, like a Father and Mother, you teach the principle, but it took until Eve figured it out, she pondered, thought about things, and likely through the Spirit discerned what she needed to do. Then, with divine wisdom bestowed from Heavenly Mother, she kicked off the whole plan of Happiness, and guided Adam to jump in with both feet. So, like the natives believe about the feather, the female part is wise and gives direction, while the male part doses the work and provides lift and movement.
Also Isaiah AND the book of Mormon were commanded by the LORD for us to read and study-not just Isaiah
Interesting idea, that the brass plates contained apocryphal texts that BoM authors leveraged. I’ll be interested to see any response from the scholarly community. But IMHO most of this one-sided interview ranges from Jonah confidently overplaying his hand to enthusiastically finding shapes in proverbial clouds and inferring intentionality. Red flags go up for me when someone purports to have all the answers. Still, an interesting idea worth critical exploration.
“Don’t tell your bishop you listen to Ward Radio.”
I did😂 no worries here!
40:23 listen, I’ve got nothing but love and respect for Jonah Barnes. Love the guy to death. But hearing his take on the Adam & Eve / Garden of Eden story makes me realize why so many faiths have rejected the apocrypha as inspired. It’s either… there was need to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so their eyes could be opened *as it states in the temple OR Eve was the brilliant wise mastermind that had the ability to somehow see beyond the garden of Eden and fully grasp all of the consequences without having partaken of the fruit. They both can’t be true. Also, I know that Jonah has a very light hearted personality. It’s what makes him so delightful, so I’ll cut him some slack, but I don’t like the portrayal of Adam as some bumbling oaf that goes with the “wisdom” of the all knowing Eve and is lead along like a puppy. I disagree. I don’t see anything wrong with Eve being beguiled. It doesn’t mean that she is dumb. It doesn’t mean that women are unwise or inferior. It illustrates that Satan is the master of deception and has the ability to lead anyone astray. It demonstrates his power, which we, as Latter Day Saints, should take very seriously. That said, Love you Jonah! Can’t wait to get the book.
Legit
The fall is so about sex. and the serpent is A Satan lucfier is ONE of the Satans
The ascension of Isiah speaks of a flat earth- so does the book of Enoch
This guy has the look of someone trying to stay relevant
He's legitimately on the verge of something amazing - think new revelation!
@@weightelk I hope so
The book of Mormon sounds like apocryphal books because the book of Mormon is apocryphal. Joseph Smith wrote it
How many LDS channels do you stalk..?
@@gingersnaps215 ?
I watch a couple LDS channels because I find it amusing how different it is now from when I was growing up. It's like a different religion
Thai guy is just trying to make money
He's, sincere, not a scammer!
@@weightelk I think so
Sorry.. NOT a Jonah Barns fan😝.
It's a good thing this guy is Jonah Barnes, not Jonah Barns, or even worse, Bonah Jarnes (that guy sucks!) This Jonah Barnes guy here though is great! He's a scriptorian and he's pretty damn funny if you have a sense of humor 😄
@MichaelGMoney Just don't disagree with him or share a view he hasn't heard. In other words, don't be different. Worship the ground he walks on and you're in good shape👍😅
@StompMom5 so many know it all super stars on you tube. Notice?
@misfyresalot Yes💯. He is definitely one of them!! If you get him into a conversation he doesn't agree, or ask a question he doesn't like, he'll turn into 12 year old mentality and attack. I've seen him go rogue in too many conversations where he got downright personal and went right to name calling over such insignificant things. He's great at discussion as long as he's right and no one challenges him.
@StompMom5 Maybe so! I haven't received that vibe from him yet. He is on Ward Radio and he doesn't seem to behave that way there. I guess we all have an Achilles Heel. I bet we all have a chink in our armor and need to do our own personal work. I'm okay listening to someone and their opinion. I can come away understanding them better and myself. I don't have to agree with anyone but Christ. I have a responsibility to live, forgive, and reserve judgement. He is a child of God that is imperfect just like you and I. Maybe it would be good to reach out to him personally letting him know that he presents himself in a manner that offends you. We all have things to work on. If it doesn't go well you will know you have done your part as a child of God.