Someday I'll finally solve the problem of recording good video from a real NES. At 3:18 you can see I bought a cheap "Retro Scaler 2x" that specifically promised 240p compatibility, but that was a lie. It has the same problems with deinterlacing artifacts as everything else. Actually worse, since it stretches out the picture with no way to control it. Total garbage product, only usable if you have no other option to get any image on a TV... and actually it wasn't that cheap considering $10 USB capture sticks usually are better, and so are $10 RCA to HDMI adapters. I paid too much at $30 for what I needed it to do (because it can't do it)... but it's $80 on Amazon. It's a knockoff of something called RetroTink 2X that's supposed a lot better and actually compatible. But I don't know if I believe them... I've been down this path before, so many times. It was hard to get this video done. Lots of problems and re-recording. Bonus points if you can figure out which year each part of the video was made. The answer may surprise you. There's parts that would have turned out a little better if I had redone all the footage today, instead of just most of it.
I can't speak to the tink clone you purchased but I personally own both the Retrotink 5x and 4k. Mike Chi makes good hardware designed for video gaming. There is also the OSSC and GBSc.
The unfortunate thing with scalers is they are ether cheap and not good, or good but pricey. I have a Retrotink 5x and it was worth the price, Mike Chi does some amazing work and it handles anything from NES to the Wii/PS2/Xbox era amazingly, though the 2x is still good if you only need it for older systems.
One reason to split the audio signal is so you can run it through a mixer with different volumes and stereo panning, if you want to tune the music for the game you're playing.
Different volumes could be interesting. I think it gets split out by waveform (triangle, square, noise) so it wouldn't be as simple as something like turning down a background track.
@@SparkY0 That's correct, there's no way for anything external to the game's code to know what each sound channel represents. That's not really a use case I was suggesting for the audio split, though. I just mean like, let's say the player wants to reduce the harshness of the square waves, or pan the triangle left and the square right, or whatever.
I can see how the analog-only video out can be hard for capture, specially with bad scalers or newer TVs not understanding the video signal. For playing don't sweat too much on CRT details like brand name, features, specifics of the screen is built; just remember these consoles and games were made with average tech in mind. Remember that RF was still an option up to N64.
Technology has advanced enough to make a hardware NES that fits in the pocket, but maybe not play cartridges. The point is that it's not that shocking that someone made a hardware NES console that's around the size of its cartridges.
For example cheap knockoff handhelds that run a NES clone SoC but you can't plug a cartridge into them, just the crappy built-in games... I made a video about one from Walmart once. Most every bootleg/plug and play console is an NES at its heart. Although ARM/android is getting more common. But TinyNES isn't a modern bootleg. It's using the authentic original chips.
The best solution would be to either get a retrotink or an OSSC to improve vide quality on modern TVs for original NES consoles or to use a CRT. Great video though as I didn't even know there was a project like this for the NES. I wonder if there will be similar for the SNES and Sega Genesis
Using a CRT is fine to play, but not really helpful for video capture. I haven't heard of a similar project for SNES or Genisis yet, but I'll keep an eye out.
I understand why they put them there; anything else would have added significant complexity to the design... but I still don't like having to reach around the game to turn it on.
Honestly a RGB Mod and a Retro Tink 5x or 4k directly into a capture card is going to be your best bet capturing NES games directly from real hardware. The other option would be the NT Mini or NT Mini Noir, as they can do dual outputs.
@SparkY0 Just get the AVS console from RetroUSB, that one used FPGA, had four controller ports and 2 cartridge slots (one for Famicom and for NES) just like the Analogue Nt but is cheaper in price.
@@VOAN The feature set of the NT Mini or NT Mini Noir far exceeds the AVS. The AVS is a wonderful machine, just the NT Mini and Mini Noir are just that insane feature wise. Like comparing a high end Corvette to a McLaren.
@@SparkY0 The NT Mini yes back in 2018. I think the did the final run on the Noir in 2020 or 2021. That is the one thing I don't like about Analogue, they discontinue their previous consoles. They never should have discontinued the Mega SG or Super NT, and should have made a cost reduced NT Mini. I own 2 or 3 of each because they are that awesome but I still believe they are leaving money on the table.
That might work. I didn't have a CRT at the time, but now I do. Not sure if it's good enough but CRT TVs are really hard to get since pawn shops and thrift stores stopped selling them, and nobody wants to ship one. The issue I was trying to capture was subtle though. I put all my effort into getting a direct capture so I could enhance it, which didn't work out since everything I tried messed up the picture too much.
They can. Something to be aware of is that the NTSC version of the PPU is harder to find /more expensive. I've heard sometimes you'll get sent a PAL version but with the part number changed
@@SparkY0 Thank you for replying. Hopefully the ntsc one becomes more available. It would also be great if they could make clone chips, that can be used in super nintendo.
I hate when they harvest hardware from the originals. Hopefully they took the parts from broken and unfixable nes systems. But that doesn’t mean that’s how they obtained the chips and that would mean like a company that did this with n64 consoles, possibly destroyed original hardware to make this. That’s just sad. Especially if they didn’t even go to the effort of upgrading the output to modern TVs to make things easier at least.
I think they did what they could to be respectful of the system. When it comes to standard NES chips there's a whole lot of those out there in poor condition where the parts will live a better life in a small project like this. As for the rare arcade chips though, I don't know. When there's 0 for sale on ebay then preservation seems like it should be the higher priority. Ideally, the clone chips would finally get updated versions to be flawless, but really they're good enough. The clone CPU is fine and the glitched instructions in the clone PPU are minor, and only affect a couple of games that nobody actually plays. At least, depending on which clone you have.
@@SparkY0 I certainly hope so. Totally use parts from broken systems or cloned systems from the day or even remade parts that are easily copied. Just don’t take them from perfectly working original nes or famicoms lol
I'm one of those people who had never, ever, used an NES; not even in emulation. After seeing your video I decided to play a couple of games under emulation, I think I'm missing out.
NES has some really good and groundbreaking games, but also some bad and confusing games. It's an era where the user manual was usually pretty important to figure out how a game works.
I'm not the biggest fan of the NES (no shade thrown, just not my favourite), but I would highly recommend the following games if you're getting started: Spy Hunter, Shatter Hand, Chip & Dale, Smash TV, and Sweet Home.
Someday I'll finally solve the problem of recording good video from a real NES. At 3:18 you can see I bought a cheap "Retro Scaler 2x" that specifically promised 240p compatibility, but that was a lie. It has the same problems with deinterlacing artifacts as everything else. Actually worse, since it stretches out the picture with no way to control it. Total garbage product, only usable if you have no other option to get any image on a TV... and actually it wasn't that cheap considering $10 USB capture sticks usually are better, and so are $10 RCA to HDMI adapters. I paid too much at $30 for what I needed it to do (because it can't do it)... but it's $80 on Amazon. It's a knockoff of something called RetroTink 2X that's supposed a lot better and actually compatible. But I don't know if I believe them... I've been down this path before, so many times.
It was hard to get this video done. Lots of problems and re-recording. Bonus points if you can figure out which year each part of the video was made. The answer may surprise you.
There's parts that would have turned out a little better if I had redone all the footage today, instead of just most of it.
I can't speak to the tink clone you purchased but I personally own both the Retrotink 5x and 4k. Mike Chi makes good hardware designed for video gaming.
There is also the OSSC and GBSc.
The unfortunate thing with scalers is they are ether cheap and not good, or good but pricey.
I have a Retrotink 5x and it was worth the price, Mike Chi does some amazing work and it handles anything from NES to the Wii/PS2/Xbox era amazingly, though the 2x is still good if you only need it for older systems.
James Channel made one from scratch. Not only that, but with some ribbon cables and adapters, he made the cartridge play itself lol.
I saw it, it reminds me the same thing!
He even explained why it’s so small in 5 seconds.
As someone who grew up there, seeing a Zelda cart with a homemade "The Legend of Iowa" label is HILARIOUS. Well done!
The game is real.
Seeing this video reminds me of how lonely my NES mini is. I should turn it on and play some games.
One reason to split the audio signal is so you can run it through a mixer with different volumes and stereo panning, if you want to tune the music for the game you're playing.
Different volumes could be interesting. I think it gets split out by waveform (triangle, square, noise) so it wouldn't be as simple as something like turning down a background track.
@@SparkY0 That's correct, there's no way for anything external to the game's code to know what each sound channel represents. That's not really a use case I was suggesting for the audio split, though. I just mean like, let's say the player wants to reduce the harshness of the square waves, or pan the triangle left and the square right, or whatever.
I guess so. The fun is that people into that kind of thing can do it
I love the size, I did a NESRGB mod on mine so I have Component Output from it, perfect quality.
The rgb out would be great to then have it feed a retrotink, though. I get that some of the cost is for the materials and design, but wow.
I can see how the analog-only video out can be hard for capture, specially with bad scalers or newer TVs not understanding the video signal. For playing don't sweat too much on CRT details like brand name, features, specifics of the screen is built; just remember these consoles and games were made with average tech in mind. Remember that RF was still an option up to N64.
Technology has advanced enough to make a hardware NES that fits in the pocket, but maybe not play cartridges. The point is that it's not that shocking that someone made a hardware NES console that's around the size of its cartridges.
Not sure what you mean by "but maybe not play cartridges"...
For example cheap knockoff handhelds that run a NES clone SoC but you can't plug a cartridge into them, just the crappy built-in games... I made a video about one from Walmart once.
Most every bootleg/plug and play console is an NES at its heart. Although ARM/android is getting more common.
But TinyNES isn't a modern bootleg. It's using the authentic original chips.
@@SparkY0what is your take on fpga based devices? I’m not an expert but as I understand it they can emulate hardware perfectly.
I haven't tried one, but I have one on the way. It will depend on how well the designer was able to copy the original.
The best solution would be to either get a retrotink or an OSSC to improve vide quality on modern TVs for original NES consoles or to use a CRT. Great video though as I didn't even know there was a project like this for the NES. I wonder if there will be similar for the SNES and Sega Genesis
Using a CRT is fine to play, but not really helpful for video capture.
I haven't heard of a similar project for SNES or Genisis yet, but I'll keep an eye out.
It's probably just a system on a chip....wait, it's original hardware? Neat.
Ah yes, high Z, the bane of every engineer 🤣👍🏼
If you're not getting a real nes hardware, then you can get a SOAC clone for like $20. $40 for HDMI compat
For something designed so well, they really messed up with the power button and reset!
I understand why they put them there; anything else would have added significant complexity to the design... but I still don't like having to reach around the game to turn it on.
Thanks for posting!
Thanks for watching!
Honestly a RGB Mod and a Retro Tink 5x or 4k directly into a capture card is going to be your best bet capturing NES games directly from real hardware. The other option would be the NT Mini or NT Mini Noir, as they can do dual outputs.
An nt mini would be great, but didn't they stop making them years ago?
@SparkY0 Just get the AVS console from RetroUSB, that one used FPGA, had four controller ports and 2 cartridge slots (one for Famicom and for NES) just like the Analogue Nt but is cheaper in price.
(I secretly ordered an AVS last night, don't tell anybody)
@@VOAN The feature set of the NT Mini or NT Mini Noir far exceeds the AVS. The AVS is a wonderful machine, just the NT Mini and Mini Noir are just that insane feature wise. Like comparing a high end Corvette to a McLaren.
@@SparkY0 The NT Mini yes back in 2018. I think the did the final run on the Noir in 2020 or 2021. That is the one thing I don't like about Analogue, they discontinue their previous consoles. They never should have discontinued the Mega SG or Super NT, and should have made a cost reduced NT Mini. I own 2 or 3 of each because they are that awesome but I still believe they are leaving money on the table.
James's Catridge NES is better
Can it play itself?
@@SparkY0 with some soldering skills to make the adapter, yes!
Well, then I probably can't top that, lol.
Great video, I wish I knew where my original NES was at, it would be fun to play.
Keep looking, maybe you'll find all your old consoles.
Just get a good crt, and set the camera to manual exposure mode at 60 fps.
That might work. I didn't have a CRT at the time, but now I do. Not sure if it's good enough but CRT TVs are really hard to get since pawn shops and thrift stores stopped selling them, and nobody wants to ship one.
The issue I was trying to capture was subtle though. I put all my effort into getting a direct capture so I could enhance it, which didn't work out since everything I tried messed up the picture too much.
That was really cool, I think it is nice they included a diagram.
Really cool vid! Didn't know these existed.
Thanks! They're pretty neat
Do you know if the clone chips could be used in a real nes?
They can.
Something to be aware of is that the NTSC version of the PPU is harder to find /more expensive. I've heard sometimes you'll get sent a PAL version but with the part number changed
@@SparkY0 Thank you for replying. Hopefully the ntsc one becomes more available. It would also be great if they could make clone chips, that can be used in super nintendo.
I hate when they harvest hardware from the originals. Hopefully they took the parts from broken and unfixable nes systems. But that doesn’t mean that’s how they obtained the chips and that would mean like a company that did this with n64 consoles, possibly destroyed original hardware to make this. That’s just sad. Especially if they didn’t even go to the effort of upgrading the output to modern TVs to make things easier at least.
I think they did what they could to be respectful of the system. When it comes to standard NES chips there's a whole lot of those out there in poor condition where the parts will live a better life in a small project like this.
As for the rare arcade chips though, I don't know. When there's 0 for sale on ebay then preservation seems like it should be the higher priority.
Ideally, the clone chips would finally get updated versions to be flawless, but really they're good enough. The clone CPU is fine and the glitched instructions in the clone PPU are minor, and only affect a couple of games that nobody actually plays. At least, depending on which clone you have.
@@SparkY0 I certainly hope so. Totally use parts from broken systems or cloned systems from the day or even remade parts that are easily copied. Just don’t take them from perfectly working original nes or famicoms lol
I trust this doesn't have the 10NES lockout chip that the original console had?
Correct, no worries there.
@@SparkY0 Good. That'd save me the hassle of buying an original NES and having the 10NES chip disabled in it if, say, I wanted to play imports.
It's pretty easy to disable that chip though, you only need to cut off a single pin.
I'm one of those people who had never, ever, used an NES; not even in emulation. After seeing your video I decided to play a couple of games under emulation, I think I'm missing out.
NES has some really good and groundbreaking games, but also some bad and confusing games. It's an era where the user manual was usually pretty important to figure out how a game works.
I'm not the biggest fan of the NES (no shade thrown, just not my favourite), but I would highly recommend the following games if you're getting started: Spy Hunter, Shatter Hand, Chip & Dale, Smash TV, and Sweet Home.
thank you sparkyo
Jesus loves you!