As someone who is diagnosed with half of this lady's illnesses and 3 more, all i can say is that psychiatry is centuries behind general medicine. Basically there is no testing. We get prescribed pills completely willy neely. Pills with massive, life changing side effects too, without even being informed of those side effects. Pharma LOVES psychiatry. It's hard to feel any hope that it is going to change in our lifetime. I get this woman. If i lived in the netherlands, i would have already seriously considered this option. I would at least like to have it if i came to a point that felt i wanted it.
Btw, she is not the first person to ssk for enthanasia in the netherlamds based on mental illness. At least one other young woman asked, but i believe she gave up some time before tge procedure.
My kid is 40 years old and has been suicidal for more than 20 years. They've taken every antidepressant available, including ketamine, and nothing works, and on top of nothing working, they all have horrendous side effects. Breathing exercises make them feel like they're drowning. Physical exercise is impossible because they have crippling arthritis in their knees and back (x-rays show bone-on-bone arthritis in the knees -- latest orthopedic doctor said they have the knees of an 80-year old). Between physical pain, emotional pain, and mounting other issues including epilepsy, their life is just one tortuous experience after another. You can talk about how selfish it is to want to exit this life when it would hurt those who care for you, but it's also pretty selfish of those who care for you to expect you to live in constant torture just so they don't have to feel the pain of losing you. I've had to make peace with the fact that at some point I may have to find my child couldn't take it any longer, but for now, I'm just grateful that day hasn't arrived yet.
I'm 5 years older than your son and suffer from both physical and mental chronic pain. I also take ketamine which is a short term solution. I have to take 5 different drugs just so I don't cry from the pain. But that still doesn't work on most days. Just let him know he is not alone in his struggles and as long as you care about him by checking and asking him how his day is, we might feel better. A hug a day keeps the suicidal thoughts away. I have my wife and 4 kids, if it was not for them I would not be here right now.
I lived in a racist town where the doctor did an examination and said nothing about my results on my knees. They violated the riles and talked about my condition throughout town. It was even brought up in class. I wonder if "God" has done my dirty work for me?
no one forced her to be alive she was physically healthy she wasn't connected forcefully to some kind of machine. if a lot of people are still alive and don't want to die is not because they have a happy life. I don't have the right to kill someone with their permission or without. having suicidal thoughts and doing suicide is not normal so don't normalize it and don't encourage people to kill themselves. I'm healthy enough to not listen to a motivational speech from a mentally ill person. suicide is not illegal by the way people with mental illnesses who have suicidal thoughts do not really care about what the law says either.
Mental health is torture, agonizing, and helpless. I’m a US Combat Vet been struggling with PTSD since my deployments. The VA and outside Doctors have prescribed so many medications in the last 8 yrs and nothing really seems to help. Every other day I think of the S word. It’s not selfish of her in my opinion. Yes I have a partner of 10 yrs a family that loves me but they also hurt seeing me struggle every day. It’s not pretty. As long as she genuinely went through all the steps, then she deserves to stop her pain. I would much rather be shot again and again than to feel this mental pain.
Maybe you just don’t have a chemically related problem with your brain. There are instances where traditional means of medication are nowhere as effective and in fact could be damaging toward your mental state. Meditative medication might be the approach to take. Negative spaces can reaffirm and reinforce self induced harm and depression. Distractions also don’t help much with this. You have to confront that pain and trauma and come to an acceptance and be at a peace with it or do the opposite of what led you there in the first place to counteract it and reach a space of self balance. Pain can be as much a teacher as a terror it all depends on how we choose to perceive it. Really wish you the best. Thanks for your optimist belief in choosing to serve. It’s an important quality that this nation needs more of. 🫡
I feel for you buddy, a lifetime of abuse makes you question if it's really worth going on. I hope you can find a way to heal and be happy with life again. I am just barely starting to recover with immense longterm help from therapists and addiction counselors. Hope is possible to have again.
As a former superintendent of a vast building, I had three suicides, Two jumpers and one that shot himself in the head with a shotgun. Do you know what happens to a body from forty stories high? A hundred people on the ground witnessed that poor kid explode. I was told he was well-known to the police. He should have been giving a calmer, more loving way to do this. The woman hit the gate and came in half, and I don't have to tell you what a shotgun does. They should have been helped and loved instead of spending the last minutes of their lives alone.
At least they had the balls to do the deed themselves and did not choose to needlessly involve others. Those doctors will forever be troubled by what they are doing
@@anmolt3840051 WTF? Have you actually tried to place yourself in their position & tried to imagine what desperation & pain it takes to take that step? Totally alone. Often violently. Knowing someone will find you. Your family and friends won't have any sort of real closure because you can't really explain or answer their questions or reassure them in any way that they shouldn't think they should have done more. I cannot say that I'm comfortable with this woman's decision. But I also can't say I think this was the wrong thing to happen. I've been in dark holes before (actually most of my life) and I've also been on the end of the family member wanting answers. I also think we're only getting a small sliver of a click bait story too, there's bound to be more here.
Kyle, it's cruel to call it selfishness. Severe depression for 10 years is unimaginable, I had only for 2 years and came very close to ending it. It changes your brain. Yes, at some point you can't care enough about how others will hurt, but at that point you can't feel much overall. It's what depression takes away from you - things that mattered stop mattering.
It sounds like you are out the other side though. As of right now. I have also experienced this but I am also out the other side, thankfully. What I always say to myself and others is that nothing ever stays the same. When you are in deep depression it feels like nothing will ever change and that is genuinely what you feel but it very clearly is not the case and to remind one’s self of that can prove to be really useful at times.
Gotta disagree with the “selfish” commment, Kyle. With this level of clinical depression, people often believe that they themselves are a burden to others and that plays a part as well. Guilt tripping them by thinking they’re selfish isn’t helping.
There are different ways to look at things. I do believe that people who take their own life are being selfish but that's not inherently wrong. What bothers me is that it's not considered selfish by many to expect someone to live a miserable life so that you are spared the pain of their dying, even though they'll die one day anyway. I think the latter is more worthy of condemnation than the former. For the record, my mother took her own life on the second attempt and so did her brother. That doesn't make me an expert but I do have some experience. I was upset when my mother died, of course, but I was glad that she was no longer in the pain she must have been feeling for many years.
I agree you can be selfish and be doing the right thing for yourself. Clearly there is a great spectrum and this person is on the far end to where people in their lives view their suffering adjacent to extreme unbearable physical pain. Its selfish to choose death but its not wrong
This isn't guilt tripping. I've been diagnosed with clinical depression and have come close to suicide a few times but it's objectively very selfish. He isn't using this as a way of talking someone out of suicide. If he was it would be guilt tripping, but he's not. Unless you have nobody in this world who deeply cares for you, relies on you or values you, it's selfish. That being said, you should never need to live for the sake of other people, I don't want it to seem like that's what I'm trying to get across
Drugs, are helpful to some, not to others. When you have major depression. It is not about being happy, it is about getting through a day not locked in a dark room for days. Or, not being stuck in your own mind for day or two. When you read a news article and feel deeply that the world will never change. It is not about happiness or sadness, depression is much more complicated. I feel for this person, and the pain they have suffered throughout their life.
I've been at points where it feels like someone has attached a vacuum hose to my upper back & is sucking out my chest cavity. Can't catch a breath without any physical cause. The same week I could have brief times of joy only to be brought back into the void. There were times the fear & desperation would hit (without cause) that I would go sit in my closet behind my clothes with the door shut, not because I was hiding from anyone or anything, I knew it was irrational, but it felt secure. You're right, it's not someone just being "unhappy" or "sad" it's so much more complicated. While media tries their best to depict it, I've never actually seen anyone get close to showing the complexity behind it.
Psychiatry is still a developing field, and finding the right cocktail of drugs for someone could take a long time and a lot of tries. With no guaranteed success, sadly 😢
Also, seems to me that it decreases traumatic experiences drastically. Nobody finding their loved ones because they took fate in their own hands. no car drivers, train conducters traumatised. Though ofc it should never be encouraged, but in some cases... If you're done, you're done.
Depression can be overcome, what kind of a coward resorts to killing themselves because they can’t deal with the curve balls life throws at all of us ?
I've always found it bizarre that you need permission from other people to end your own life...the only thing that exists that belongs only to the one living it
You don't need permission, the person doing it needs attention, which is the problem with people seeking to become professional patients; no group of patients receives greater sympathy and attention than a terminal one. This is a classic symptom of early childhood neglect.
Because the world needs consumers. The rich use religion and law as tools to control the masses. They truly don't care, but need you alive to consume and slave away at their corporations.
The issue here is that they're involving 3rd parties in it. It's also to avoid situations where people are being pressured to self-murder in order to benefit a 3rd party.
So you don’t think that you should have a say if everyone you care about decided to self-terminate? Our lives belong to us that’s true but that doesn’t mean they’re ours to destroy or end, we exist in a network of people, we depend on each other that way, you’re the end of an edge in the network in the life of everyone you know, if you want your death to be only your business that’s fine but you have to also be okay with your life, and everything that goes on in it, to be of no importance to no one else as well. Can’t ask people to do selective caring.
@@hazemelhusseiny5683 That's the issue. Doing it yourself is illegal in many places and many others have laws that are on the books and used that allow people that are going to do it to be hospitalized for treatment. I fail to see how this is substantively any better than the sorts of self-murdering that we have public awareness campaigns and actual police dragging people off to the psychiatric hospital.
Here is what I love about Kyle Kulinski. Besides being dead on on all the political issues Kyle is the most honest and sincere commentator out there. I love that he isn't afraid to say that he struggles with a particular issue, sees both sides and isn't afraid to say he just doesn't know the answer. This is why he is the best news commentator on You Tube. This and the fact that he doesn't take advertisement money.
It would be nice if he actually had asked some of his dutch viewers for some background information. Cause loads of things I heard and read are just not true.
Personally I do find his foreign policy takes to be wack every now and then, but I agree about the sincerity - even when I disagree with him, at least he's not just saying it just because big oil paid for his latest mansion, and that alone is worth a lot in the news world.
All them people are fine letting people suffer in silence but once an article comes out that they're given assisted suicide its all NIMBY, its like you didn't care before knowing this person existed why make a fuss now!? People overuse the term virtue signaling but thats pretty much it to a T.
It's because the assisted aspect makes it seem that society is condoning, even encouraging, this course. That's not necessarily the only interpretation of legal euthanasia, and I have heard good arguments that it isn't, but it is understandable to recoil quite apart from views of individual actions.
@@LostInTheMovies Yeah, people can and have committed suicide by themselves all the time. But this was a collective decision. She wanted to end her life, true. But the fact that the medical professionals concurred with her sends a chill down my spine. It's not for me to say whether or not she could've overcome her demons, but for everyone else to say "You're right, you can't actually get better. You should kill yourself." is one of those things that I'm a little worried about where it'll lead.
@@FazeParticles No, NIMBY's are usually people who could not give a f**k , until it affects them. The opposite of NIMBY's are people with empathy, which it appears you are lacking, not that you would even recognise that.
Let's be clear clinical depression is chronic illness. It's living with chronic pain. People do not understand the depths of pain. It's not just being really sad after a breakup. And for some people NOTHING helps. 😢
I'm 37 and I've suffered from depression since I was 15. I know exactly what you mean. I've been on pretty much every antidepressant. At the end of the day, making sure my dog has a happy life is sometimes my only reason for continuing to live mine.
Not really, you can be diagnosed with depression if you're going through a breakup or not long after losing a loved one. They keep broadening the definition. And people are usually just stuck on powerful drugs with terrible side-effects for the test of their lives.
@@rlud304right it doesn't really ad to the discussion. I'd love to see him have a disability or mental health activist on. I don't personally like to see posts that seem simply anti pharma. That's not the world we live in.
@@rlud304 I've been on about a dozen of these drugs, suffered horrible adverse effects from many of them, and still currently dealing with long-term health effects and protracted withdrawal... not to mention all the hours of listening to lectures and interviews with psychiatrists and case studies. I've also known MANY people and friends that have had negative experiences with these neuroleptic drugs. They don't restore some imaginary chemical imbalance, they just make you numb and put you in an drug-intduced altered state of consciousness. I've experienced withdrawal with every one of them, some like venlafaxine are horrible, on par with alcohol withdrawal.
As someone who's suffered from incurable depression for the vast majority of my life, I totally get why this woman did what she did. I learned the hard way that some forms of depression can't be cured by *any* drug and instead require certain circumstances in your life to change. In this case, therapy is usually more useful, but it can only do so much. For some of us, no amount of drugs or therapy help since they cannot alter the circumstances that make us depressed, and so we have no choice but to suffer a misery that gets worse as time pass. Personally, I did eventually find something that made life bearable. Turns out that the many therapists I've been to all my life only made things worse, and the changes I needed were things that they never would've suggested. But I doubt that everyone is that lucky. As for suicide being selfish, the thing is that wanting someone to live is *also* selfish, especially since none of us consented to being born in the first place. Everyone gets so hung up about suicidal people being selfish, when in reality everything about the creation, maintaining, and termination of life is selfish. The thing is, when you truly love someone, you have to allow them to be selfish to some degree. And sometimes that includes allowing them to make the choice to end their life when they have no other recourse.
Absolutely agree that wanting to keep someone around is selfish. I think most people thinking about suicide have thought about the effect it will have on others in their life, but that is outweighed by their emotional pain.
@@uberwench_ The first big thing was isolating myself and limiting my interactions to those few I enjoy talking to. Turns out that being around people make me extremely miserable, and no amount of therapy could change that. And funnily enough, the second big thing was writing fanfiction and finding good friends and a community I could share those stories with.
My dad hanged himself from depression. Same as physical illness, mental illness should be treated same way. If living is a torture to this lady, then she has every right to make this choice.
Depression has effective treatments and more are being developed over time. It's not like I don't get it, there were times where I would literally have to start making lists of people that might be impacted and alternatives to give me the motivation to not just give up. I know now that like the woman that Kyle's talking about that I have what is almost certainly undiagnosed and untreated autism. The only reason it's not diagnosed is that at the time I couldn't receive an Asperger's Syndrome diagnosis without getting the schizophrenia spectrum diagnoses reevaluated and by the time I understood that she wasn't saying I wasn't, it was too late, the criteria had been changed in ways that made it a lot harder. There is no legitimate reason for self-murder in response to depression. There is help out there and if it's not sufficient, better help won't come if the people that would need it the most are permitted to murder themselves.
@@SmallSpoonBrigadeyou are so wrong. Treatment resistant depression is a thing and is terrible. You are a monster for denying people relief from their suffering.
It's not a dark story Kyle... she is deciding to exit exactly the way she wants and chooses to.. life is beautiful and if you can leave in a beautiful way then it's beautiful
@@abuansari05 It's been true for for as long as I've been alive....no reason to have any hope of anything really....we have somebody who's on trial while simultaneously most likely to wind up the president of our country....has this ship truly ever been on course?
I'm sure you've tried many things. But if I can suggest a path. Cut out weed and cut down on alcohol if they are part of your life. Also clean up your diet and get out in nature as much as possible. Do humanistic talk therapy... the more we articulate our baggage the more we can understand and reframe our issues and if its possible do assisted psychedelic therapy. God speed.
I hate how people gatekeep it by this arbitrary requirement of having a terminal illness. Why can't people just decide not to exist? What are you getting by keeping unhappy people here against their will?
Okay but don't judge others for not approving of such practices then. We have the right to care about the interest of society as a whole and whether certain practices should be prohibited for the greater good.
People don't understand that it is literal physical pain along with everything else. Considering physical conditions to be more debilitating than psychological ones.... don't know how the body works.
Heavy disagree with saying it's selfish. Only she knows the pain she deals with each day. It's her health, it's her body. What's really selfish is expecting someone to endure something terrible for years, probably the rest of their lives, just to make yourself feel better.
It's much more complex and complicated than that. It is selfish in a way, just like it's selfish the other way around, people expecting them to stay alive and endure the pain so they don't have to experience the pain of them being gone. So when someone decides to so this, they're causing so many other people in their lives to endure pain because they didn't want to endure pain themselves. So it's selfish both ways, but at the end of the day it is their decision and sometimes being selfish is absolutely necessary when there are no other options to treat the crippling depression.
@@DougieBarclay Someone with empathy and compassion would understand the pain she feels and wouldn't call her actions selfish, even if it made them sad. I'm talking about a situation where others, close or not, make the decision for her, which is actual selfishness.
Article - "Perfectly healthy." Also article - "CRIPPLING depression." Not exactly perfectly healthy. Depression on that level is a tough life. Maybe we should let people decide if they want to be here or not. I'm not saying just grant the authorization to anyone, but if people can make a case that their mental health challenges are more than they want to endure, why are we forcing people to live? Edit: And for the people who make the point that what they are doing is essentially granting a doctor the authority to kill someone and passing the burden to them, just understand that the doctors are not being forced to do anything. The doctors that do this believe in allowing people to choose their own end.
If you've never lived with this for years, done the work and tried the drugs with zero or minimal results, you really can't understand the level of agony people like this are living with. Going on living year after year in agony and without real hope is a sentence we don't impose even on those who commit the worst crimes and it shouldn't be one we voluntary impose on those who are merely guilty of being sick.
Yeah. I think that it makes sense to set a standard where someone needs to have really tried to improve, but so long as that standard is met I think that this should be an option for them. It was met in this woman's case, she tried for over a decade to get better. We as a society have no right whatsoever to demand even more from her, just for the slight chance that maybe a solution is still out there to be found after she goes through another decade of suffering. The idea that every mental problem can be cured is just as irrational and unscientific as taking a "mind over matter" approach to cancer. Your mind is part of your body, it can get just as irreparably messed up as any other part of your body.
Yeah but the problem with this is that suicide is obviously worse because then you have no chance of solving your issues. Giving up can never be the answer which is why we frown on suicide
Healthy point of view. It's only up to her. If somebody really wants to go, they will, and I think it's up to us to make that as humane as possible, also for the benefit of those she leaves behind. Having to find someone you love who did something awful to themselves is traumatic in its own right.
How do people not understand that mental illness can be EVERY BIT as painful and debilitating as physical illness? There are people who suffer from multi drug resistant depression that cannot get relief from their soul crushing depression If you don't understand what pure, all encompassing despair and depression is, that's great, but you cannot judge this woman When your brain chemistry is causing you to feel absolute hopelessness, you don't have any quality of life She was likely abused during childhood, which changes your brain chemistry, there are people who never recover from that I can't imagine what this woman and her family are experiencing, and all the people bombarding her with cures, demands and criticism are AWFUL This is her business, and all I feel for her is compassion and hope for a peaceful passing surrounded by loved ones
@mannygutierrez7654 The same reason bigots chalk up transgender folks as "attention seekers with mental illness." They are totally ignorant about transgender folks and mental illness.
All I can say is that this is a very sad reflection on our society that young people are made to suffer in this way and we have no real way to help them. The alienation and indifference run to the roots of our decaying civilization.
Our civilization might be decaying because of the structure which creates the stress and anxiety in many of us. Some who can't handle it or do not wish to handle it.
@@JohnnyBGoode-xn9mo Society gives easy access to tobacco, alcohol and guns, which exceeds by orders of magnitude the harm to society that assisted suicide would. How about the burden of keeping people alive in nursing homes who have absolutely no quality of life and would willingly accept a painless way out?
@@shawnduncan7846 What a condescending view point and just throwing away everything she's experienced, done to try to get better, and the half a decade she's spent with professionals since wanting this euthanasia and nothing helping.
That is an extremely selfish point of view where you dont think people have any responsibility to their family. This entire comment section is just hyper liberal Devils advocate teenage thoughts that people usually grow out of. Nobody gets to kill anyone ever, how about that? No assisted suicides, no killing yourself, no killing others, no killing civilians, no death penalty, no killing animals, nothing, i'ts too big a step to take, and nobody should have the power to choose who lives or dies. THAT is the right edgy teenage argument to make, if you're gonna make those kinds of arguments.
That doesn't mean we should normalize it. Most tendencies are cries for help, most people can be talked off the ledge. Telling people it's completely normal to feel that way isn't helping, it's not normal, it shouldn't be normal. We need to help them not feel that way in the first place.
No law should prohibit medical decisions that are determined over the course of YEARS by a patient, a panel of unaffiliated doctors, and a thorough process of option evaluation.
"They tell us that suicide is the greatest act of cowardice... that suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person." -Arthur Schopenhauer
That's part of it, but (related to those more blatant misconceptions) there is also the realization that it at least has the potential to be more fluid, harder to identify from outside, and more susceptible to external influences and pressures than physical pain. With non-mental health euthanasia candidates there is a more (but not necessarily fully) concrete sense of the options they are choosing between. Even when one accepts the present condition of their suffering as equal to that of someone with a terminal or chronic physical condition, the question of its future is harder to grapple with.
It's so depressing to know a young, healthy girl is so mentally tortured that she sees unaliving as the only way out. Mental health care needs to improve a lot. If the psychiatric system hadn't failed her so hard, she wouldn't have to resort to this.
“Did you _really_ exhaust all the options?” People always revert to this question when it comes to mental anguish, but not as much when it comes to terminal or chronic illness. “Isn’t that a little selfish?” Again, you could literally say the same about terminal and chronic illness.
There's a difference. If you were on a boat and it tipped. Someone with mental health issues would swim to safety if it was close enough, a disabled person physically couldn't.
There is a difference between mental anguish and terminal and chronic illness. Mental disorders affect one's own reality to a surprising and scarily unknowable degree. The pain is no less real - but its nature is very different. You know well enough that no matter how hard you try to help someone dying of cancer, in the end, it won't do much. It will hurt. And they will pass away in pain. With mental anguish, it's the opposite. No matter how many times you've tried, no matter how many times it didn't help, there's always more you can try, and there's never a certainty that at some point something won't just click - maybe even something that has already failed to help, again and again. With terminal cancer, no matter how hard you try, you're never closer to alleviating the suffering. With severe depression, no matter how many times you've failed, you're always just one more try away. It may seem subtle, nonsensical or even outright stupid, but it is a very important difference, ask anyone who's seen it through it to the other side. They'll tell you something similar.
@@levishaun8334exactly. My mom had a few very serious bouts with depression throughout her life. The last one did her in. But the times before? They were bad, and they lasted months. In between them though? Years where she was genuinely happy with life. (She told me so herself, and she’s always been very open and honest about mental health). The last time, what worked before just didn’t stick for some reason. But if she didn’t exhaust all her options, she would have ended her life over 50 years ago and missed out on years of genuine happiness.
The selfish part is lording the decision over everyone for four years and rebuffing the help of loves ones, it is bullying and tormenting the people nearest and dearest by making them impotent to help you. A bully does not have a right to be terminally narcissistic.
I have attempted to end myself a few times. I realize much of that feeling sprang from economic anxiety and health issues. If we had a better social safety net, I would be much better off and less likely to want to end things.
Right, unfortunately this is just another example showing how little we know about the human brain. Mental health is so important for health and just throwing drugs at it doesn't always work.
Correct it is. But its chemical composition could be just fine and there are instances where medication that seeks to correct chemical imbalances can be effective but they are not an end all be all solution. The ‘disease’ or symptom can be entirely self induced as when one believes something makes them sick and become sick as a result of affirmation of the bias from others but nothing is really wrong with them. The state of the brain is meant to be malleable so the solution needs to arise from that form be it meditation or otherwise.
This is the ultimate test of belief in bodily autonomy. The fear of death is powerful, and we can want people to live as long as possible. But if they want out, they want out. It isn’t chosen lightly or carelessly
It is very easy to think that, and constantly thinking that will only make the option more appealing, my view is this world is vast, she's young, trauma is no joke, but surely one will enjoy life helping people suffering with the same trauma, or commiting to a life with her boyfriend, or doing something meaningful, I often think people underestimate their self in every way, and focus only on wrongs, though i don't know her suffering, i do believe time and experiences can make someone find peace in life, the only life you have.
Kyle, I had no idea how much you _haven't_ suffered in your life until I watched this. (This is a credit to you, since you are _nevertheless_ almost 100% compassionate.) I'm not saying you haven't suffered (life is full of various kinds of suffering, some very horrible). But no-one who has ever had prolonged, severe, depression, would ever think that it's worth it to keep living on some 1% chance that some doctor is going to be able to cure you when nothing else has worked, or that you're selfish for depriving other people of your company. Should people in excruciating _physical_ pain for a physical condition that doctors have no cure for, not be able to access physician-assisted suicide? No, of course not. The only reason that people who are as compassionate and rational as you are would think that it's different for a purely psychological form of suffering, could think that, as far as I can tell, is that you have no idea how almost incomprehensibly horrific the torture of severe and prolonged depression can be, especially when it's a result of prolonged (often sexual) abuse during childhood.
@@ItsAllCulturalMarxismI don't agree. There are strong impediments in place to stop people from choosing this as a whim. Depression and mental illness is as debilitating as physical pain. I've had both and been suicidal but have chosen to stick it out for awhile longer but no one but me should be able to make that choice. My sister committed suicide after years of agonizing pain and I can't fault her for that even though I miss her with all my heart.
I'm going to assume after a nearly 4 year ordeal the people approving the assisted suicide would have exhausted all options to cure or alleviate her depression. Sometimes we should trust the people who have been thinking about this for years instead of our knee jerk reaction.
I agree with the Netherlands, this is a decision you and your doctor can figure out. In this case it seems very comprehensive with multiple doctors. Nobody should be forced to live in pain.
Agreed - so get on with it in private, don't torture the people around you for years with constant threats of self-termination. Because that's one sure-fire way of making it everyone's business!
No one else should be able to determine that you HAVE to expend your energy living. In America we have to work to live, which means that denying right to die is GUARANTEEING an employer your labor
as someone with chronic depression, BPD, CPTSD, have tried everything possible, every med combination.. and i still have the S word in my head every couple days.. i know that if it wasnt for my husbanmd and my cat this would be an option i 100% would look into... saddly only people who experience such deep depression ... that it has been chronic your entire life... maybe you cant understand....
If I were in her position, I know for certain that being bombarded with messages online by people telling me I just need to find Jesus, that I was going to burn in hell or I just need to change my diet ect, would just make me want to die even more lol
It is selfish to force someone to live in mental pain and anguish so they can entertain us. Many of the homeless we create deserve to have a choice if we refuse to help them. As a disabled veteran, I believe the choice is theirs and theirs alone.
I realize you are saying this out of compassion, but the idea of facilitating a path to homeless self-extermination as society's compensation for not helping them seems particularly dark.
So... we refuse to help them deal with their issues, so get them out of their misery? I realize what you say comes from a place where your heart is, you've made it obvious enough. But you also have to realize that powers that be think this exact way, but also put it in your exact words. They're making your compassion their unwilling accomplice, an instrument of our common oppression. We should be unified in demand for more to be done, out of compassion and practicality. And never accept killing, no matter how they call it, as a solution. We suffer because they're taking our lives without giving a fraction back. Even when we say "well all options are exhausted" it's never really true. We've only exhausted the ones the ruling class allowed us to have
Something people don't always think about is how painful it is for loved ones to be forced to watch this person be alive and suffering indefinitely with no respite, even if that suffering is caused by depression and not a more visible physical condition. Allowing that person to end their life safely is less painful for their family than if they do it unsafely, and then the family can grieve knowing their loved one isn't stuck suffering against their will.
The Dutch are so individualistic that even Americans think of them as cold and greedy. They will literally Tikkie (Venmo/CashApp etc) for a single potato chip they share with you. But what else can we expect from the culture that organically developed capital markets and spread it to the rest of the world?
As someone who's had anxiety and depression my entire life, I not only understand, I might take the offer as well. If you've never fought severe depression, you can't understand what it's like.
@@gothboschincarnate3931 New treatments are being developed all the time. And if the BPD isn't responding to treatment there's a decent chance that it's because it's autism that's been misdiagnosed. A lot of autistic women get a BPD diagnosis before they get an autism one. What's more, if all the hard cases result in the sufferer murdering themself, then there's going to be a limit on qualified study participants and the community knowledge of how to address some of this stuff goes away as well.
Two words: Karma and reincarnation. They are the machines of the universe. Lessons are to be learned. The question is: are we learning them? Elevating? Raising consciousness awareness? Turning to a non-violent diet and fashion? I recommend the movie Samadhi the Movie here on YT. Has two parts. Namaste.
I'm sorry for your loss. I'm dreading that day for me. Luckily my dog is only 7 and he's a small dog so he's got quite a few years left, but I literally don't know if I can outlive him. As someone with my own severe depression, he's my underlying reason for continuing to be alive.
@@SolutionsWithinThey weren't asking for *metaphysical* reasons. They were asking for the actual material reasons we decide, as a society, not to do it. I guarantee not a single medical provider or policymaker is making decisions for the American population based on belief in freaking reincarnation. Nama-stay in your lane fruitcake.
@LoadPuller Her choice, but it also means that the entire medical field failed her too. Thousands of years of medical breakthroughs and improvements were still not enough.
@@utterlyviolet failed, No, why? I got news for you. Death cannot be evaded. Not now, not ever. Not even with the best of the best medical care. Death is not a failure, it's a milestone of life; the final journey. "Per omnia secula seculorum" 🤗
The government should never have a say in whether its illegal for an individual to end their own life. Its there lives to do with whether they choose to suffer to the end or want that pain to end.
All I'll say is this: if you're living through such a low point in your life every single day that when you reach out, you swear you'd touch the bottom of the abyss, you'd understand why she's made her choice for it all to end. As an individual with a C-PTSD diagnosis, I can empathise with her struggle. Never call it selfish. It's rude to do so.
I am actually a relatively young Dutch person myself, and I'm not gonna lie.. I have also visited the doctor once before about getting euthenasia. The doctor told me they were never gonna grant me permission for that, so I gave up on it.
We don’t for a minute question our right to euthanise our pets, because we understand that putting them through pain is inhumane. Yet humans are unable to fathom another human’s pain and right to end thier pain. And so we continue this never ending belief that somehow we get to dictate to others thier right to make choices that only they have the right to make.
I don't see what the big deal is, or why it's so dark. There are certain types of depression, that are currently untreatable. Therapy and Medicine doesn't work. This woman has been suffering for decades, and now a qualified professional has deemed that okay for her to take her own life. This was a decision that took 4 years for approval. It wasn't some spur of the moment thing. If anything we should be happy for her that she finally gets some relief.
@@stannyb3346 There's no way you can guarantee that. She's had 4 years to think it over. Also, I imagine she can call the whole thing off right up until the last moment.
@LoveJungle420 not until the last moment though, when the drugs have entered her system that's it and I guarantee you at the last millisecond when she feels the darkness she will regret it.
I wish that this was an option in America. I've been suffering with severe depression since my childhood. If this option was available here in America I would do it in a heartbeat. It's my body, my life and I should have the right to end my life when I see fit... Without people guilt tripping me, giving me false hope or treating me like a criminal. I couldn't care less about what other people think about my decision. It's not their life. It's my life... PERIOD!!!
You can go to Sweden. It will cost about $11,000 plus a plane ticket. I'm not suggesting you do it, but it is possible. I know most people don't have that kind of money lying around.
That thinking is ultimately what will make you depressed, thinking shit centers around you, and it truly it doesn't, it is what makes you think this way , that suicide is an option, im sorry but you need to push yourself to believe, this selfish route only affects others, and if you know pain you won't give it to others so easily.
“My body my choice” certainly gets thrown out the window when it comes to these issues… it’s inhumane to force someone to suffer. The world is so fucked up… trauma resides the brain and sometimes treatment is not enough. Our mental health access is garbage. Fix those things before you can say “let’s regulate”.
This Dutch woman's illness was not terminal. She gets the right to die because she's Sad? This woman needed treatment, not death. She seemed really functional despite her "mental illness". Pathetic. The Libertarian argument is to just give up on her. This happened with Keith Emerson too.
No we don’t help each as a society, so neither should be forced to exist. I’m libertarian, clinically depressed, and understand everything that woman was going through. You just feel like there is nothing to live for for oneself. That simple.
It's not my life. It shouldn't matter what I think regarding someone else's life. I have cerebral palsy. I've been in pain everyday since i was born. If Physician assisted suicide was legal. In the states i would consider it.
That's a good point. Suicide is a personal choice. Both are valid IMO. Personally, if I was going to commit suicide, I would need it to have some meaning.
It is exhausting to go through trying everything. I have tried 6 different types of drugs 12 different types of therapy in my 38 years of Major Depressive disorder. There comes a point with some, where we say enough is enough. Do we give up on life, some should, and have that choice. Because, unless you have suffered from severe depression, you could never put yourself in those shoes. It would be like someone never having experienced cancer, telling a cancer patient how they should feel.
Our lives are our own. No government or religion has the right to own us. To have suicide made illegal by the state for any reason is no different than slavery. It's someone else having control over whether I live or die and excuse me, but keep your hands off my life, my body, my mind. You see to you, I'll see to me.
My cousin shot himself in the head last night. I don’t know what the perfect solution is but I wish he had received more support and compassion, this has been traumatizing for everyone involved.
@@babbisp1 What part of I don't agree with it did you miss bro. If she has the LEGAL right to do what she wants to do then that's the end of it. I don't agree but she has made her choice and based on THEIR laws it's her right to do so. This isn't a logical fallacy it comes down to individual choice.
"In the three and a half years this has taken I've never hesitated in my decision". That means she's put off taking things upon herself for this long just so she can say goodbye to her loved ones in a controlled environment. That's about as selfless as they come.
I’m not sure why “perfectly healthy physically” matters…. There’s more to life than the body and most physical issues can be fixed or made manageable, incurable mental illness is really the big one, i don’t expect anyone other than those that struggle with incurable mental illness to understand….
A fruit based diet with regenerative herbs like Robert Morse nd teaches has helped people heal their thyroid and increase calcium utilization which helps heal depression.
@@BOBMAN1980 no it doesn’t, as my comment says, your physical body is on a part of the equation, if your mind is not in a healthy enough state, no people can’t function, that’s why “perfectly healthy physically” is like an uneducated view on health. It acts like the only thing that matters is wether your body can function, that’s not, at all. The brain is a very important part of the body…. Like wtf?!
So some mentally ill parents will cause souch pain and abuse that the victim will never recover. Life is suffering for everyone, but some people might be suffering 10 or 20 times more. I think the regulations should be that the patient is convinced they need it and can't be persuaded otherwise, no like medical requirements. Even if they can recover, it's inhumane to ask people to go through extreme anguish and suffering for your policy sake. If you asked people who recovered, they'd probably tell you they'd want to have the option at least available. It's so stupid and selfish to tell people, they have to go through extreme selfish and suffering, and they aren't allowed to get assist and they have to do it themselves, and I guess 30k people a year do
Kyle seems to not understand depression LITERALLY causes physical pain. The mind is not separate from the body. It can be just as permanent and serious as physical conditions. Many people have this understanding and it will be left in the dust after some decades.
do you struggle with depression? the whole "did you really try everything?" its really hurtful. as someone whos struggled with chronic pain since I was 15, and to be told did you try everything, its hard to not feel like your just not seeing their suffering and their attempts to improve as valid.
I disagree entirely, because it clarifies that its not a depression thats caused by an immense physical ailment and is a purely mental or "psychogenic" illness. That makes this a rarer and more notable ruling.
@@DJ-ov2it Yeah I know what the distinction is but the brain is literally part of the physical because if it wasn’t you wouldn’t be able to scan the brain for diseases, depression ect. If you went and got a brain scan they can detect depression. Is something like liver disease considered physical?
No matter how we feel, I think we have a right to live our own lives how we see fit, including the right to end it. Just gut-wrenching stuff though. My heart breaks that any of us have to go this route, but this is how intolerable this life can become for some of us.
If you haven't experienced depression firsthand, and haven't seen someone you love in this kind of situation, I don't really want to hear your opinion on this issue.
In my case there was a drug out ther that gained fda approval 2 years ago for my illness. If i had gone through with it i wouldnt be enjoying my life now. I have friends and family. New hobbies like tech and rollerblading. Things that make life interesting. Im back in college and i actually got a 3.5...all things that i couldnt have done without medication before....i tried 40 some meds and 100s of different combos and im so young at 22. Im forever greatful. I think this question is difficult for society to answer. But this is better than them jumping out the window and maybe surviving and hurting themselves more
Interesting is others in comments who have said similar, are passed right over by the virtue signalers who are against this woman's rights. It is not about concern for others, about control and making sure they are not made to feel uncomfortable. Hope you find some peace.
@@heyrakorzlar no i didnt get better. I started seeing a therapist and taking anti-depressant meds, but they only worked for a few months and now im back to my regular sad self
euthanised for severe depression is a bit of a understatement i feel. Chronic depression + autism + borderline + anxiety + trauma, that is alot..... Just one of those can cripple your life, all of that combined? i can't even imagine.
People don't give a shit about mental health issues and it shows
Ableist Kyle. Sometimes I forget that he's such a bro.
As someone who is diagnosed with half of this lady's illnesses and 3 more, all i can say is that psychiatry is centuries behind general medicine. Basically there is no testing. We get prescribed pills completely willy neely. Pills with massive, life changing side effects too, without even being informed of those side effects. Pharma LOVES psychiatry.
It's hard to feel any hope that it is going to change in our lifetime. I get this woman. If i lived in the netherlands, i would have already seriously considered this option. I would at least like to have it if i came to a point that felt i wanted it.
Btw, she is not the first person to ssk for enthanasia in the netherlamds based on mental illness. At least one other young woman asked, but i believe she gave up some time before tge procedure.
Turn off the left wing propaganda. That's the first step towards mental health.
some issues can't be helped and are horrible to live with and people deserve the option to just check out!
The worst thing about depression is being gaslighted by others telling you it's your fault.
The worst part about depressed people is that you watch them make choice that lead to depression
@@brianpetersen570 Gaslighting here we go again.
@@renaissanceman9034 gaslighting, as in it's not your fault you're depressed but it's someone else's fault? Typical.
The worst thing about depression is all the depression dude.
My kid is 40 years old and has been suicidal for more than 20 years. They've taken every antidepressant available, including ketamine, and nothing works, and on top of nothing working, they all have horrendous side effects. Breathing exercises make them feel like they're drowning. Physical exercise is impossible because they have crippling arthritis in their knees and back (x-rays show bone-on-bone arthritis in the knees -- latest orthopedic doctor said they have the knees of an 80-year old). Between physical pain, emotional pain, and mounting other issues including epilepsy, their life is just one tortuous experience after another. You can talk about how selfish it is to want to exit this life when it would hurt those who care for you, but it's also pretty selfish of those who care for you to expect you to live in constant torture just so they don't have to feel the pain of losing you. I've had to make peace with the fact that at some point I may have to find my child couldn't take it any longer, but for now, I'm just grateful that day hasn't arrived yet.
I'm 5 years older than your son and suffer from both physical and mental chronic pain. I also take ketamine which is a short term solution. I have to take 5 different drugs just so I don't cry from the pain. But that still doesn't work on most days. Just let him know he is not alone in his struggles and as long as you care about him by checking and asking him how his day is, we might feel better. A hug a day keeps the suicidal thoughts away. I have my wife and 4 kids, if it was not for them I would not be here right now.
I lived in a racist town where the doctor did an examination and said nothing about my results on my knees. They violated the riles and talked about my condition throughout town. It was even brought up in class. I wonder if "God" has done my dirty work for me?
@@Paul-vw9tq”a hug a day keeps the suicidal thoughts away” is absolute bullshit. I get at least 12 hugs a day and still have constant ideations
@@LifeStrike2030 works for me. I guess it has to be a meaningful hug
How did your son get arthritis in his knees? Was it a side effect of medications?
I don't have the right to force someone else to keep living.
💯
no one forced her to be alive she was physically healthy she wasn't connected forcefully to some kind of machine. if a lot of people are still alive and don't want to die is not because they have a happy life. I don't have the right to kill someone with their permission or without. having suicidal thoughts and doing suicide is not normal so don't normalize it and don't encourage people to kill themselves. I'm healthy enough to not listen to a motivational speech from a mentally ill person. suicide is not illegal by the way people with mental illnesses who have suicidal thoughts do not really care about what the law says either.
You’ve never lost anyone close to suicide
@@jakestumm4101 why is that relevant?
@@jakestumm4101 What an ignorant asinine comment. you have no clue what they have experienced. Really disgusting.
Mental health is torture, agonizing, and helpless. I’m a US Combat Vet been struggling with PTSD since my deployments. The VA and outside Doctors have prescribed so many medications in the last 8 yrs and nothing really seems to help. Every other day I think of the S word. It’s not selfish of her in my opinion. Yes I have a partner of 10 yrs a family that loves me but they also hurt seeing me struggle every day. It’s not pretty. As long as she genuinely went through all the steps, then she deserves to stop her pain. I would much rather be shot again and again than to feel this mental pain.
Without question depression is the most painful thing I've ever had to deal with.
My bro, you died, and you will hurt your family even more.
Maybe you just don’t have a chemically related problem with your brain. There are instances where traditional means of medication are nowhere as effective and in fact could be damaging toward your mental state.
Meditative medication might be the approach to take. Negative spaces can reaffirm and reinforce self induced harm and depression. Distractions also don’t help much with this. You have to confront that pain and trauma and come to an acceptance and be at a peace with it or do the opposite of what led you there in the first place to counteract it and reach a space of self balance. Pain can be as much a teacher as a terror it all depends on how we choose to perceive it.
Really wish you the best. Thanks for your optimist belief in choosing to serve. It’s an important quality that this nation needs more of. 🫡
I feel for you buddy, a lifetime of abuse makes you question if it's really worth going on. I hope you can find a way to heal and be happy with life again. I am just barely starting to recover with immense longterm help from therapists and addiction counselors. Hope is possible to have again.
Thank you for your sacrifice
As a former superintendent of a vast building, I had three suicides, Two jumpers and one that shot himself in the head with a shotgun. Do you know what happens to a body from forty stories high? A hundred people on the ground witnessed that poor kid explode. I was told he was well-known to the police. He should have been giving a calmer, more loving way to do this. The woman hit the gate and came in half, and I don't have to tell you what a shotgun does. They should have been helped and loved instead of spending the last minutes of their lives alone.
Goddddddddaaaamn
Ok you changed my mind on this.
At least they had the balls to do the deed themselves and did not choose to needlessly involve others. Those doctors will forever be troubled by what they are doing
You push?
At least go sky diving or something, shit
@@anmolt3840051 WTF? Have you actually tried to place yourself in their position & tried to imagine what desperation & pain it takes to take that step? Totally alone. Often violently. Knowing someone will find you. Your family and friends won't have any sort of real closure because you can't really explain or answer their questions or reassure them in any way that they shouldn't think they should have done more. I cannot say that I'm comfortable with this woman's decision. But I also can't say I think this was the wrong thing to happen. I've been in dark holes before (actually most of my life) and I've also been on the end of the family member wanting answers. I also think we're only getting a small sliver of a click bait story too, there's bound to be more here.
Kyle, it's cruel to call it selfishness. Severe depression for 10 years is unimaginable, I had only for 2 years and came very close to ending it. It changes your brain. Yes, at some point you can't care enough about how others will hurt, but at that point you can't feel much overall. It's what depression takes away from you - things that mattered stop mattering.
It sounds like you are out the other side though. As of right now. I have also experienced this but I am also out the other side, thankfully. What I always say to myself and others is that nothing ever stays the same. When you are in deep depression it feels like nothing will ever change and that is genuinely what you feel but it very clearly is not the case and to remind one’s self of that can prove to be really useful at times.
Gotta disagree with the “selfish” commment, Kyle. With this level of clinical depression, people often believe that they themselves are a burden to others and that plays a part as well. Guilt tripping them by thinking they’re selfish isn’t helping.
There are different ways to look at things. I do believe that people who take their own life are being selfish but that's not inherently wrong. What bothers me is that it's not considered selfish by many to expect someone to live a miserable life so that you are spared the pain of their dying, even though they'll die one day anyway. I think the latter is more worthy of condemnation than the former.
For the record, my mother took her own life on the second attempt and so did her brother. That doesn't make me an expert but I do have some experience. I was upset when my mother died, of course, but I was glad that she was no longer in the pain she must have been feeling for many years.
Why would you date someone with clinical depression you're signing up for a sh*t show.
I agree you can be selfish and be doing the right thing for yourself. Clearly there is a great spectrum and this person is on the far end to where people in their lives view their suffering adjacent to extreme unbearable physical pain. Its selfish to choose death but its not wrong
This isn't guilt tripping. I've been diagnosed with clinical depression and have come close to suicide a few times but it's objectively very selfish.
He isn't using this as a way of talking someone out of suicide. If he was it would be guilt tripping, but he's not. Unless you have nobody in this world who deeply cares for you, relies on you or values you, it's selfish. That being said, you should never need to live for the sake of other people, I don't want it to seem like that's what I'm trying to get across
Society is sick the weak are now removed
Drugs, are helpful to some, not to others. When you have major depression. It is not about being happy, it is about getting through a day not locked in a dark room for days. Or, not being stuck in your own mind for day or two. When you read a news article and feel deeply that the world will never change. It is not about happiness or sadness, depression is much more complicated. I feel for this person, and the pain they have suffered throughout their life.
I agree. It can become an existential crisis at a certain point and once you've arrived at nihilism, well, good luck. :/
Look at the medical insert in anti depressants. (Side) effects are depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts.
I've been at points where it feels like someone has attached a vacuum hose to my upper back & is sucking out my chest cavity. Can't catch a breath without any physical cause. The same week I could have brief times of joy only to be brought back into the void. There were times the fear & desperation would hit (without cause) that I would go sit in my closet behind my clothes with the door shut, not because I was hiding from anyone or anything, I knew it was irrational, but it felt secure. You're right, it's not someone just being "unhappy" or "sad" it's so much more complicated. While media tries their best to depict it, I've never actually seen anyone get close to showing the complexity behind it.
This is one of the best descriptions of what I sometimes go through.
Psychiatry is still a developing field, and finding the right cocktail of drugs for someone could take a long time and a lot of tries. With no guaranteed success, sadly 😢
Isn't it equally selfish to tell somebody that they have to continue living and suffering just so that you can feel better
I'd say it's more selfish, especially since the person will eventually die anyway, so they are just delaying their grieving process.
People don't realise how traumatising suicide is, especially when it doesn't work the first time.
Also, seems to me that it decreases traumatic experiences drastically. Nobody finding their loved ones because they took fate in their own hands. no car drivers, train conducters traumatised.
Though ofc it should never be encouraged, but in some cases... If you're done, you're done.
Depression can be overcome, what kind of a coward resorts to killing themselves because they can’t deal with the curve balls life throws at all of us ?
State sanctioned suicide is an absolutely horrendous idea. There's ways and means but you should always get help and stop being selfish.
I've always found it bizarre that you need permission from other people to end your own life...the only thing that exists that belongs only to the one living it
You don't need permission, the person doing it needs attention, which is the problem with people seeking to become professional patients; no group of patients receives greater sympathy and attention than a terminal one. This is a classic symptom of early childhood neglect.
Because the world needs consumers. The rich use religion and law as tools to control the masses. They truly don't care, but need you alive to consume and slave away at their corporations.
The issue here is that they're involving 3rd parties in it. It's also to avoid situations where people are being pressured to self-murder in order to benefit a 3rd party.
So you don’t think that you should have a say if everyone you care about decided to self-terminate? Our lives belong to us that’s true but that doesn’t mean they’re ours to destroy or end, we exist in a network of people, we depend on each other that way, you’re the end of an edge in the network in the life of everyone you know, if you want your death to be only your business that’s fine but you have to also be okay with your life, and everything that goes on in it, to be of no importance to no one else as well. Can’t ask people to do selective caring.
@@hazemelhusseiny5683 That's the issue. Doing it yourself is illegal in many places and many others have laws that are on the books and used that allow people that are going to do it to be hospitalized for treatment.
I fail to see how this is substantively any better than the sorts of self-murdering that we have public awareness campaigns and actual police dragging people off to the psychiatric hospital.
Here is what I love about Kyle Kulinski.
Besides being dead on on all the political issues Kyle is the most honest and sincere commentator out there. I love that he isn't afraid to say that he struggles with a particular issue, sees both sides and isn't afraid to say he just doesn't know the answer.
This is why he is the best news commentator on You Tube.
This and the fact that he doesn't take advertisement money.
It would be nice if he actually had asked some of his dutch viewers for some background information. Cause loads of things I heard and read are just not true.
I agree! He is so genuine!
Personally I do find his foreign policy takes to be wack every now and then, but I agree about the sincerity - even when I disagree with him, at least he's not just saying it just because big oil paid for his latest mansion, and that alone is worth a lot in the news world.
No one asked to be born so you should 100% be able to choose not to stick around.
The only necessary argument here
Nah
crazy beliefs
@@AbdulSoomro-kj5lt let me guess: because hell.
@@AbdulSoomro-kj5lt Right. Produce an argument and maybe you will be taken seriously.
All them people are fine letting people suffer in silence but once an article comes out that they're given assisted suicide its all NIMBY, its like you didn't care before knowing this person existed why make a fuss now!? People overuse the term virtue signaling but thats pretty much it to a T.
Everyone is NIMBY unless they’re a sucker.
It's because the assisted aspect makes it seem that society is condoning, even encouraging, this course. That's not necessarily the only interpretation of legal euthanasia, and I have heard good arguments that it isn't, but it is understandable to recoil quite apart from views of individual actions.
@@LostInTheMovies Yeah, people can and have committed suicide by themselves all the time. But this was a collective decision. She wanted to end her life, true. But the fact that the medical professionals concurred with her sends a chill down my spine. It's not for me to say whether or not she could've overcome her demons, but for everyone else to say "You're right, you can't actually get better. You should kill yourself." is one of those things that I'm a little worried about where it'll lead.
@@FazeParticles No, NIMBY's are usually people who could not give a f**k , until it affects them.
The opposite of NIMBY's are people with empathy, which it appears you are lacking, not that you would even recognise that.
So you prefer her to kill herself ? There is no state involved. It's doctors and shrinks.
Let's be clear clinical depression is chronic illness. It's living with chronic pain. People do not understand the depths of pain. It's not just being really sad after a breakup. And for some people NOTHING helps. 😢
I'm 37 and I've suffered from depression since I was 15. I know exactly what you mean. I've been on pretty much every antidepressant. At the end of the day, making sure my dog has a happy life is sometimes my only reason for continuing to live mine.
Not really, you can be diagnosed with depression if you're going through a breakup or not long after losing a loved one. They keep broadening the definition. And people are usually just stuck on powerful drugs with terrible side-effects for the test of their lives.
@@mr.giggles4995What are your credentials that qualify your opinion?
@@rlud304right it doesn't really ad to the discussion. I'd love to see him have a disability or mental health activist on. I don't personally like to see posts that seem simply anti pharma. That's not the world we live in.
@@rlud304 I've been on about a dozen of these drugs, suffered horrible adverse effects from many of them, and still currently dealing with long-term health effects and protracted withdrawal... not to mention all the hours of listening to lectures and interviews with psychiatrists and case studies. I've also known MANY people and friends that have had negative experiences with these neuroleptic drugs. They don't restore some imaginary chemical imbalance, they just make you numb and put you in an drug-intduced altered state of consciousness. I've experienced withdrawal with every one of them, some like venlafaxine are horrible, on par with alcohol withdrawal.
As someone who's suffered from incurable depression for the vast majority of my life, I totally get why this woman did what she did. I learned the hard way that some forms of depression can't be cured by *any* drug and instead require certain circumstances in your life to change. In this case, therapy is usually more useful, but it can only do so much. For some of us, no amount of drugs or therapy help since they cannot alter the circumstances that make us depressed, and so we have no choice but to suffer a misery that gets worse as time pass.
Personally, I did eventually find something that made life bearable. Turns out that the many therapists I've been to all my life only made things worse, and the changes I needed were things that they never would've suggested. But I doubt that everyone is that lucky.
As for suicide being selfish, the thing is that wanting someone to live is *also* selfish, especially since none of us consented to being born in the first place. Everyone gets so hung up about suicidal people being selfish, when in reality everything about the creation, maintaining, and termination of life is selfish. The thing is, when you truly love someone, you have to allow them to be selfish to some degree. And sometimes that includes allowing them to make the choice to end their life when they have no other recourse.
Absolutely agree that wanting to keep someone around is selfish. I think most people thinking about suicide have thought about the effect it will have on others in their life, but that is outweighed by their emotional pain.
What was it that mad life bearable
@@uberwench_ The first big thing was isolating myself and limiting my interactions to those few I enjoy talking to. Turns out that being around people make me extremely miserable, and no amount of therapy could change that.
And funnily enough, the second big thing was writing fanfiction and finding good friends and a community I could share those stories with.
My dad hanged himself from depression. Same as physical illness, mental illness should be treated same way. If living is a torture to this lady, then she has every right to make this choice.
Depression has effective treatments and more are being developed over time. It's not like I don't get it, there were times where I would literally have to start making lists of people that might be impacted and alternatives to give me the motivation to not just give up. I know now that like the woman that Kyle's talking about that I have what is almost certainly undiagnosed and untreated autism. The only reason it's not diagnosed is that at the time I couldn't receive an Asperger's Syndrome diagnosis without getting the schizophrenia spectrum diagnoses reevaluated and by the time I understood that she wasn't saying I wasn't, it was too late, the criteria had been changed in ways that made it a lot harder.
There is no legitimate reason for self-murder in response to depression. There is help out there and if it's not sufficient, better help won't come if the people that would need it the most are permitted to murder themselves.
No he just selfish and wanted to give you a forever scare
@@SmallSpoonBrigadeyou are so wrong. Treatment resistant depression is a thing and is terrible. You are a monster for denying people relief from their suffering.
@@macfou144I wouldnt say that about someones Father.
It's not a dark story Kyle... she is deciding to exit exactly the way she wants and chooses to.. life is beautiful and if you can leave in a beautiful way then it's beautiful
“Shouldn’t we have a society that helps?”
We should, but we don’t. Nor will we in our own lifetimes.
That’s pessimistic. Just a reinforcement for apathy.
@@rodimcgeesums633 At this point, better pessimism and apathy than delusional false hopes.
@@rodimcgeesums633They aren't being apathetic as much as they're being a realist.
@@grindcoreninja6527 that's just sad thinking, if so many people think like that it will only come through.
@@abuansari05 It's been true for for as long as I've been alive....no reason to have any hope of anything really....we have somebody who's on trial while simultaneously most likely to wind up the president of our country....has this ship truly ever been on course?
Lifelong serious depression is absolutely horrible!!! I don't have a problem with her decision.
I've got mental health problems, I feel for her.
Just please don’t give up like she did, you are worthy and your life is soo important
@@HANABB66 you sound like one of the loonies who pushed the woman over the edge at the end
I'm sure you've tried many things. But if I can suggest a path. Cut out weed and cut down on alcohol if they are part of your life. Also clean up your diet and get out in nature as much as possible. Do humanistic talk therapy... the more we articulate our baggage the more we can understand and reframe our issues and if its possible do assisted psychedelic therapy. God speed.
lol so go to the mental hospital
@@macfou144 and the award for dumbest comment goes to...
I hate how people gatekeep it by this arbitrary requirement of having a terminal illness.
Why can't people just decide not to exist? What are you getting by keeping unhappy people here against their will?
It's not my life ...not mine to judge.
Until the euthanasia mandates come....
Okay but don't judge others for not approving of such practices then. We have the right to care about the interest of society as a whole and whether certain practices should be prohibited for the greater good.
If you haven’t suffered depression you have no IDEA how painful it is!
My husband suffered from it. It's pretty bleak. Do you think someone depressed can make that decision? I just don't know.
People don't understand that it is literal physical pain along with everything else.
Considering physical conditions to be more debilitating than psychological ones.... don't know how the body works.
@@lailaafifi5419 yes, they're not fit to make that decision. They want relief more than death. Imo
I don't wanna be a jerk but how do you become depressed?
I think most people have experience some kind of depression in their lives.. like all of them
people who would tell someone who's clearly going through a lot of pain "you're going to hell" are just heartless.
Heavy disagree with saying it's selfish. Only she knows the pain she deals with each day. It's her health, it's her body. What's really selfish is expecting someone to endure something terrible for years, probably the rest of their lives, just to make yourself feel better.
A decision can be selfish even if it's justified.
You almost made a valid point until you mistook empathy and compassion for "one's desire to feel better about oneself."
It's much more complex and complicated than that. It is selfish in a way, just like it's selfish the other way around, people expecting them to stay alive and endure the pain so they don't have to experience the pain of them being gone. So when someone decides to so this, they're causing so many other people in their lives to endure pain because they didn't want to endure pain themselves. So it's selfish both ways, but at the end of the day it is their decision and sometimes being selfish is absolutely necessary when there are no other options to treat the crippling depression.
@@MasterXemnas1 Ok. I disagree with saying it's selfish because of the negative connotation it carries.
@@DougieBarclay Someone with empathy and compassion would understand the pain she feels and wouldn't call her actions selfish, even if it made them sad. I'm talking about a situation where others, close or not, make the decision for her, which is actual selfishness.
Article - "Perfectly healthy."
Also article - "CRIPPLING depression."
Not exactly perfectly healthy. Depression on that level is a tough life. Maybe we should let people decide if they want to be here or not. I'm not saying just grant the authorization to anyone, but if people can make a case that their mental health challenges are more than they want to endure, why are we forcing people to live?
Edit: And for the people who make the point that what they are doing is essentially granting a doctor the authority to kill someone and passing the burden to them, just understand that the doctors are not being forced to do anything. The doctors that do this believe in allowing people to choose their own end.
I couldn't help but be amazed by the fact she has a partner and that partner has stood by her during all these years.
Wow.
R.i.p. young lady.
He’s prob a massive simp or sicko
Lol are you all clueless? Two mentally unwell people
If you've never lived with this for years, done the work and tried the drugs with zero or minimal results, you really can't understand the level of agony people like this are living with. Going on living year after year in agony and without real hope is a sentence we don't impose even on those who commit the worst crimes and it shouldn't be one we voluntary impose on those who are merely guilty of being sick.
HE WHO HAS A WHY TO LIVE CAN BEAR ALMOST ANY HOW
Yeah.
I think that it makes sense to set a standard where someone needs to have really tried to improve, but so long as that standard is met I think that this should be an option for them.
It was met in this woman's case, she tried for over a decade to get better. We as a society have no right whatsoever to demand even more from her, just for the slight chance that maybe a solution is still out there to be found after she goes through another decade of suffering.
The idea that every mental problem can be cured is just as irrational and unscientific as taking a "mind over matter" approach to cancer. Your mind is part of your body, it can get just as irreparably messed up as any other part of your body.
suicide is never the solution. Its cowardly and while all your problems are gone youve left your loved ones hurt
Yeah but the problem with this is that suicide is obviously worse because then you have no chance of solving your issues. Giving up can never be the answer which is why we frown on suicide
@thehater6189 try living with severe mental illness
I’m not sure if I agree with this but it’s not up to me
No one asked
@@jonathanbirch2022 no one asked you to reply
Healthy point of view.
It's only up to her. If somebody really wants to go, they will, and I think it's up to us to make that as humane as possible, also for the benefit of those she leaves behind. Having to find someone you love who did something awful to themselves is traumatic in its own right.
Societies and communities mean nothing anymore. Just individuals
@@RunD.Ones1s he wouldn’t have commented if he didn’t want replies 🤡
How do people not understand that mental illness can be EVERY BIT as painful and debilitating as physical illness? There are people who suffer from multi drug resistant depression that cannot get relief from their soul crushing depression
If you don't understand what pure, all encompassing despair and depression is, that's great, but you cannot judge this woman
When your brain chemistry is causing you to feel absolute hopelessness, you don't have any quality of life
She was likely abused during childhood, which changes your brain chemistry, there are people who never recover from that
I can't imagine what this woman and her family are experiencing, and all the people bombarding her with cures, demands and criticism are AWFUL
This is her business, and all I feel for her is compassion and hope for a peaceful passing surrounded by loved ones
Well if she came to know about in the first place that’s also a problem it’s just a reinforcement of the negativity bias.
And they won't get relief in death either. Relief is a sensation, you need to be alive to feel it.
@mannygutierrez7654 The same reason bigots chalk up transgender folks as "attention seekers with mental illness." They are totally ignorant about transgender folks and mental illness.
Decades of mental illness misinformation unfortunately
@@Jorge-np3tqshe's had enough of sensation, that's the crux of the matter
All I can say is that this is a very sad reflection on our society that young people are made to suffer in this way and we have no real way to help them. The alienation and indifference run to the roots of our decaying civilization.
That’s why the state needs to give them order, discipline, and purpose. This is what we get with democracy.
Our civilization might be decaying because of the structure which creates the stress and anxiety in many of us. Some who can't handle it or do not wish to handle it.
@@bulkierwriter2772
That is correct
we need Technocracy
@@bulkierwriter2772
Get rid of all the evils and de ge neracy of traditionalism and give real purpose
@@kenetickups6146 The problem with technocrats is everything is all mechanical and they have no vision for the family or the people.
Imagine she tries to kill herself to end her suffering and fails and the state institutionalizes her and forces her to suffer more “for her own good”
Exactly
Think about the broader social ramifications of giving everyone easy access to suicide.
@@shawnduncan7846I agree. Heavily dystopian mentality. There are several SA survivors who have persevered.
@@JohnnyBGoode-xn9mo Society gives easy access to tobacco, alcohol and guns, which exceeds by orders of magnitude the harm to society that assisted suicide would. How about the burden of keeping people alive in nursing homes who have absolutely no quality of life and would willingly accept a painless way out?
@@shawnduncan7846 What a condescending view point and just throwing away everything she's experienced, done to try to get better, and the half a decade she's spent with professionals since wanting this euthanasia and nothing helping.
Nobody asked to be born, so people should be able to leave if they so choose.
It’s as simple as that
Morbid pov
Dont need the state to assist, it's too dangerous.
@@ItsAllCulturalMarxismBut not wrong.
That is an extremely selfish point of view where you dont think people have any responsibility to their family. This entire comment section is just hyper liberal Devils advocate teenage thoughts that people usually grow out of. Nobody gets to kill anyone ever, how about that? No assisted suicides, no killing yourself, no killing others, no killing civilians, no death penalty, no killing animals, nothing, i'ts too big a step to take, and nobody should have the power to choose who lives or dies. THAT is the right edgy teenage argument to make, if you're gonna make those kinds of arguments.
That doesn't mean we should normalize it. Most tendencies are cries for help, most people can be talked off the ledge. Telling people it's completely normal to feel that way isn't helping, it's not normal, it shouldn't be normal. We need to help them not feel that way in the first place.
I don't think this is selfish. We shouldn't be demanding people to suffer just to please the people around them.
No law should prohibit medical decisions that are determined over the course of YEARS by a patient, a panel of unaffiliated doctors, and a thorough process of option evaluation.
I get it. We cannot judge this woman.
But we do. Because we can.
Do not judge the woman. But judge the system that is allowing this.
@@seto_kaiba_ Exactly. This is Nazi shit.
@@ItsAllCulturalMarxismWho do you think you are to open that hole in your face to speak nonsense?
Yep.
It's not my business what people do with their lives. Depression is a rational reaction to the horror show we live in.
"They tell us that suicide is the greatest act of cowardice... that suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person."
-Arthur Schopenhauer
Deep depression is a horrible hopeless miserable life.Do not doubt this woman's choice till u walk in her shoes😢
People always like to think that physical pain and suffering is more severe and even more “real” than mental pain and suffering.
That's part of it, but (related to those more blatant misconceptions) there is also the realization that it at least has the potential to be more fluid, harder to identify from outside, and more susceptible to external influences and pressures than physical pain. With non-mental health euthanasia candidates there is a more (but not necessarily fully) concrete sense of the options they are choosing between. Even when one accepts the present condition of their suffering as equal to that of someone with a terminal or chronic physical condition, the question of its future is harder to grapple with.
Because it is
@@Imhereforfun-jz2luThat can only come from someone who never had severe mental pain.
@@sylverscale okay petal.
What a shame no one was able to help with her mental illness.
Just like everyone in the comments 💯 InFsanity
Somethings just can't be helped or the amount of work that is required isn't worth the pay off.
she got the help she wanted. She has escaped. Im a bit jealous.
Mental healthcare is so far behind because most people don’t care about it. It’s not surprising that no one was able to help.
Life is not for everyone
It's so depressing to know a young, healthy girl is so mentally tortured that she sees unaliving as the only way out. Mental health care needs to improve a lot.
If the psychiatric system hadn't failed her so hard, she wouldn't have to resort to this.
Doug Stanhope, as he did in so many other instances, said it best,
“Life is a little like animal porn. It’s not for everyone.”
e621?
I love that special.
I hope Doug is doing okay with his attempt at sobriety.
Wtf gross 🤢
Yeah but animal porn isn’t just not for everyone. It’s animal rape and it’s wrong.
@justindoud8842 How I never heard of this guy? Until now?
“Did you _really_ exhaust all the options?” People always revert to this question when it comes to mental anguish, but not as much when it comes to terminal or chronic illness. “Isn’t that a little selfish?” Again, you could literally say the same about terminal and chronic illness.
There's a difference. If you were on a boat and it tipped. Someone with mental health issues would swim to safety if it was close enough, a disabled person physically couldn't.
There is a difference between mental anguish and terminal and chronic illness. Mental disorders affect one's own reality to a surprising and scarily unknowable degree. The pain is no less real - but its nature is very different. You know well enough that no matter how hard you try to help someone dying of cancer, in the end, it won't do much. It will hurt. And they will pass away in pain. With mental anguish, it's the opposite. No matter how many times you've tried, no matter how many times it didn't help, there's always more you can try, and there's never a certainty that at some point something won't just click - maybe even something that has already failed to help, again and again.
With terminal cancer, no matter how hard you try, you're never closer to alleviating the suffering. With severe depression, no matter how many times you've failed, you're always just one more try away. It may seem subtle, nonsensical or even outright stupid, but it is a very important difference, ask anyone who's seen it through it to the other side. They'll tell you something similar.
@@levishaun8334exactly. My mom had a few very serious bouts with depression throughout her life. The last one did her in. But the times before? They were bad, and they lasted months. In between them though? Years where she was genuinely happy with life. (She told me so herself, and she’s always been very open and honest about mental health). The last time, what worked before just didn’t stick for some reason. But if she didn’t exhaust all her options, she would have ended her life over 50 years ago and missed out on years of genuine happiness.
The selfish part is lording the decision over everyone for four years and rebuffing the help of loves ones, it is bullying and tormenting the people nearest and dearest by making them impotent to help you.
A bully does not have a right to be terminally narcissistic.
I have attempted to end myself a few times. I realize much of that feeling sprang from economic anxiety and health issues. If we had a better social safety net, I would be much better off and less likely to want to end things.
"Physically healthy"
Is you brain chemistry not your body? Is your brain not your body?
stop making logical arguments here. You want peoples brains to explode? Jesus Fucking Christ.
Yeah. People who have the privilege of good mental health just don't want to hear, care or bother to understand.
Kinda like teeth for dental.
Right, unfortunately this is just another example showing how little we know about the human brain. Mental health is so important for health and just throwing drugs at it doesn't always work.
Correct it is. But its chemical composition could be just fine and there are instances where medication that seeks to correct chemical imbalances can be effective but they are not an end all be all solution. The ‘disease’ or symptom can be entirely self induced as when one believes something makes them sick and become sick as a result of affirmation of the bias from others but nothing is really wrong with them. The state of the brain is meant to be malleable so the solution needs to arise from that form be it meditation or otherwise.
This is the ultimate test of belief in bodily autonomy. The fear of death is powerful, and we can want people to live as long as possible. But if they want out, they want out. It isn’t chosen lightly or carelessly
It is very easy to think that, and constantly thinking that will only make the option more appealing, my view is this world is vast, she's young, trauma is no joke, but surely one will enjoy life helping people suffering with the same trauma, or commiting to a life with her boyfriend, or doing something meaningful, I often think people underestimate their self in every way, and focus only on wrongs, though i don't know her suffering, i do believe time and experiences can make someone find peace in life, the only life you have.
@@abuansari05how long do you think it takes to get permission?
Kyle, I had no idea how much you _haven't_ suffered in your life until I watched this. (This is a credit to you, since you are _nevertheless_ almost 100% compassionate.) I'm not saying you haven't suffered (life is full of various kinds of suffering, some very horrible). But no-one who has ever had prolonged, severe, depression, would ever think that it's worth it to keep living on some 1% chance that some doctor is going to be able to cure you when nothing else has worked, or that you're selfish for depriving other people of your company. Should people in excruciating _physical_ pain for a physical condition that doctors have no cure for, not be able to access physician-assisted suicide? No, of course not.
The only reason that people who are as compassionate and rational as you are would think that it's different for a purely psychological form of suffering, could think that, as far as I can tell, is that you have no idea how almost incomprehensibly horrific the torture of severe and prolonged depression can be, especially when it's a result of prolonged (often sexual) abuse during childhood.
Unfortunately, Kyle doesn’t read RUclips comments. If one comment should be read, it’s this one!
Forcing people to live with unbearable pain is cruel
Subjective terms that will get abused.
@@ItsAllCulturalMarxismabused by who?
Unfortunately, that pain will now be passed onto others…
@@ItsAllCulturalMarxismI don't agree. There are strong impediments in place to stop people from choosing this as a whim. Depression and mental illness is as debilitating as physical pain. I've had both and been suicidal but have chosen to stick it out for awhile longer but no one but me should be able to make that choice. My sister committed suicide after years of agonizing pain and I can't fault her for that even though I miss her with all my heart.
@@DorkSideoftheMoon I don't have a wife or kids
I'm going to assume after a nearly 4 year ordeal the people approving the assisted suicide would have exhausted all options to cure or alleviate her depression. Sometimes we should trust the people who have been thinking about this for years instead of our knee jerk reaction.
I agree with the Netherlands, this is a decision you and your doctor can figure out. In this case it seems very comprehensive with multiple doctors. Nobody should be forced to live in pain.
Yea, its one of those ‘mind your own damn business’ issues.
Agreed - so get on with it in private, don't torture the people around you for years with constant threats of self-termination. Because that's one sure-fire way of making it everyone's business!
No one else should be able to determine that you HAVE to expend your energy living. In America we have to work to live, which means that denying right to die is GUARANTEEING an employer your labor
thats a really good way to put it with the like economic angle like that
Your life isn't your own to take. Not everything revolves around the individual.
"We are going to ask ourselves why do we need so many humans in the world."
@@ewrock7635who’s is it then?
Everyone has to work to live, that isn't even exclusive to humans. Life is a struggle, for every living thing on the planet. You aren't special.
as someone with chronic depression, BPD, CPTSD, have tried everything possible, every med combination.. and i still have the S word in my head every couple days.. i know that if it wasnt for my husbanmd and my cat this would be an option i 100% would look into... saddly only people who experience such deep depression ... that it has been chronic your entire life... maybe you cant understand....
Dude I almost started crying reading this article I’m so high
Get your sh together yuck
If I were in her position, I know for certain that being bombarded with messages online by people telling me I just need to find Jesus, that I was going to burn in hell or I just need to change my diet ect, would just make me want to die even more lol
It is selfish to force someone to live in mental pain and anguish so they can entertain us. Many of the homeless we create deserve to have a choice if we refuse to help them. As a disabled veteran, I believe the choice is theirs and theirs alone.
I realize you are saying this out of compassion, but the idea of facilitating a path to homeless self-extermination as society's compensation for not helping them seems particularly dark.
Agreed
So... we refuse to help them deal with their issues, so get them out of their misery? I realize what you say comes from a place where your heart is, you've made it obvious enough. But you also have to realize that powers that be think this exact way, but also put it in your exact words. They're making your compassion their unwilling accomplice, an instrument of our common oppression.
We should be unified in demand for more to be done, out of compassion and practicality. And never accept killing, no matter how they call it, as a solution. We suffer because they're taking our lives without giving a fraction back. Even when we say "well all options are exhausted" it's never really true. We've only exhausted the ones the ruling class allowed us to have
@@levishaun8334Soylent Green next OUT OF COMPASSION amirite.
Something people don't always think about is how painful it is for loved ones to be forced to watch this person be alive and suffering indefinitely with no respite, even if that suffering is caused by depression and not a more visible physical condition.
Allowing that person to end their life safely is less painful for their family than if they do it unsafely, and then the family can grieve knowing their loved one isn't stuck suffering against their will.
"My body my choice unless it's inconvenient"
This is the ultimate endpoint of western hyper-individualism
Well said
exactly. you even gain control over your own death. COMPLETE FREEDOM. the ultimate state of freedom from oppression.
The Dutch are so individualistic that even Americans think of them as cold and greedy.
They will literally Tikkie (Venmo/CashApp etc) for a single potato chip they share with you.
But what else can we expect from the culture that organically developed capital markets and spread it to the rest of the world?
@@LancesArmorStriking that's hilarious
@@DavidHernandez-lq7kn
I wish I was joking
As someone who's had anxiety and depression my entire life, I not only understand, I might take the offer as well.
If you've never fought severe depression, you can't understand what it's like.
BPD+ depression+ADD= Hell.
Bpd responds well to treatment. ADD/ADHD is manageable. That’s not a reason to unalive.
@@user-mm2kx9kd7d really!!!
I hope you find the peace you deserve
@@user-mm2kx9kd7d except when it dosent respond to treatment.
@@gothboschincarnate3931 New treatments are being developed all the time. And if the BPD isn't responding to treatment there's a decent chance that it's because it's autism that's been misdiagnosed. A lot of autistic women get a BPD diagnosis before they get an autism one.
What's more, if all the hard cases result in the sufferer murdering themself, then there's going to be a limit on qualified study participants and the community knowledge of how to address some of this stuff goes away as well.
My dog was recently euthanized in front of me. My literal first thought watching her pain disappear was “Why don’t we do this for humans?”
Two words: Karma and reincarnation. They are the machines of the universe. Lessons are to be learned. The question is: are we learning them? Elevating? Raising consciousness awareness? Turning to a non-violent diet and fashion? I recommend the movie Samadhi the Movie here on YT. Has two parts. Namaste.
I'm sorry for your loss. I'm dreading that day for me. Luckily my dog is only 7 and he's a small dog so he's got quite a few years left, but I literally don't know if I can outlive him. As someone with my own severe depression, he's my underlying reason for continuing to be alive.
@@SolutionsWithinThey weren't asking for *metaphysical* reasons. They were asking for the actual material reasons we decide, as a society, not to do it. I guarantee not a single medical provider or policymaker is making decisions for the American population based on belief in freaking reincarnation.
Nama-stay in your lane fruitcake.
@@SolutionsWithinBollocks. Reincarnation is just the same dumb as every religion.
wow thats a really weird thought to have at that time
We all have to go eventually. My body, my choice.
We do indeed. What's the big deal about choosing to go early?
Exactly
YOUR body YOUR choice. Not OUR obligation to support it.
@LoadPuller Her choice, but it also means that the entire medical field failed her too. Thousands of years of medical breakthroughs and improvements were still not enough.
@@utterlyviolet failed, No, why? I got news for you. Death cannot be evaded. Not now, not ever. Not even with the best of the best medical care. Death is not a failure, it's a milestone of life; the final journey. "Per omnia secula seculorum" 🤗
The government should never have a say in whether its illegal for an individual to end their own life. Its there lives to do with whether they choose to suffer to the end or want that pain to end.
All I'll say is this: if you're living through such a low point in your life every single day that when you reach out, you swear you'd touch the bottom of the abyss, you'd understand why she's made her choice for it all to end. As an individual with a C-PTSD diagnosis, I can empathise with her struggle. Never call it selfish. It's rude to do so.
I am 50/50 too. I hate that anyone's life is so shit, but I believe them.
I am actually a relatively young Dutch person myself, and I'm not gonna lie.. I have also visited the doctor once before about getting euthenasia. The doctor told me they were never gonna grant me permission for that, so I gave up on it.
Lol that was easy
I hope you're somehow doing better now, but I don't know your situation. Best wishes!
the fuck is wrong with you dude
and died anyway... (just dumb joke)
or you're now feeling forced to live against your will... hmm...
We don’t for a minute question our right to euthanise our pets, because we understand that putting them through pain is inhumane.
Yet humans are unable to fathom another human’s pain and right to end thier pain.
And so we continue this never ending belief that somehow we get to dictate to others thier right to make choices that only they have the right to make.
No one has the right to force you to live, imo.
I don't see what the big deal is, or why it's so dark. There are certain types of depression, that are currently untreatable. Therapy and Medicine doesn't work. This woman has been suffering for decades, and now a qualified professional has deemed that okay for her to take her own life. This was a decision that took 4 years for approval. It wasn't some spur of the moment thing. If anything we should be happy for her that she finally gets some relief.
I guarantee you she's going to regret it at the last second.
@@stannyb3346 There's no way you can guarantee that. She's had 4 years to think it over. Also, I imagine she can call the whole thing off right up until the last moment.
@LoveJungle420 not until the last moment though, when the drugs have entered her system that's it and I guarantee you at the last millisecond when she feels the darkness she will regret it.
@@stannyb3346 well she will be unconscious so literally not thinking about it at all. We should all be so lucky when we die.
@aaronsnell9410 I'm referring to the moment before she becomes unconscious and she finally realizes there's no going back.
I wish that this was an option in America. I've been suffering with severe depression since my childhood. If this option was available here in America I would do it in a heartbeat. It's my body, my life and I should have the right to end my life when I see fit... Without people guilt tripping me, giving me false hope or treating me like a criminal. I couldn't care less about what other people think about my decision. It's not their life. It's my life... PERIOD!!!
You can go to Sweden. It will cost about $11,000 plus a plane ticket. I'm not suggesting you do it, but it is possible. I know most people don't have that kind of money lying around.
Do you feel lacking of purpose?
That thinking is ultimately what will make you depressed, thinking shit centers around you, and it truly it doesn't, it is what makes you think this way , that suicide is an option, im sorry but you need to push yourself to believe, this selfish route only affects others, and if you know pain you won't give it to others so easily.
“My body my choice” certainly gets thrown out the window when it comes to these issues… it’s inhumane to force someone to suffer. The world is so fucked up… trauma resides the brain and sometimes treatment is not enough. Our mental health access is garbage. Fix those things before you can say “let’s regulate”.
This Dutch woman's illness was not terminal. She gets the right to die because she's Sad? This woman needed treatment,
not death. She seemed really functional despite her "mental illness". Pathetic. The Libertarian argument is to just give up
on her. This happened with Keith Emerson too.
No we don’t help each as a society, so neither should be forced to exist. I’m libertarian, clinically depressed, and understand everything that woman was going through. You just feel like there is nothing to live for for oneself. That simple.
It's not my life. It shouldn't matter what I think regarding someone else's life.
I have cerebral palsy. I've been in pain everyday since i was born. If Physician assisted suicide was legal. In the states i would consider it.
Kyle: "Self immolation as a form of protest? Based. Ending your agonizing pain? I'm agnostic, bro."
That's a good point. Suicide is a personal choice. Both are valid IMO. Personally, if I was going to commit suicide, I would need it to have some meaning.
Kyle doesnt get it, you should be able to delete yourself, being held hostage in your own existence is the worst
It is exhausting to go through trying everything. I have tried 6 different types of drugs 12 different types of therapy in my 38 years of Major Depressive disorder. There comes a point with some, where we say enough is enough. Do we give up on life, some should, and have that choice. Because, unless you have suffered from severe depression, you could never put yourself in those shoes. It would be like someone never having experienced cancer, telling a cancer patient how they should feel.
Our lives are our own. No government or religion has the right to own us. To have suicide made illegal by the state for any reason is no different than slavery. It's someone else having control over whether I live or die and excuse me, but keep your hands off my life, my body, my mind. You see to you, I'll see to me.
My cousin shot himself in the head last night. I don’t know what the perfect solution is but I wish he had received more support and compassion, this has been traumatizing for everyone involved.
Severe depression can be a terminal illness that causes excruciating pain.
Personally I don't agree with it but it's her right to live or die how she chooses I guess.
"It's her right" So you DO 'agree with it', you just dont like it
You don’t agree with euthanasia for people suffering from an incurable illness?
@@babbisp1 What part of I don't agree with it did you miss bro. If she has the LEGAL right to do what she wants to do then that's the end of it. I don't agree but she has made her choice and based on THEIR laws it's her right to do so. This isn't a logical fallacy it comes down to individual choice.
@@jonathanbirch2022 Does depression count as an "incurable illness" ?
That doesn’t mean that the medical establishment should enable it.
"In the three and a half years this has taken I've never hesitated in my decision". That means she's put off taking things upon herself for this long just so she can say goodbye to her loved ones in a controlled environment. That's about as selfless as they come.
The amount of people pro legal suicide in this comment section is wild.
Yes? You mofos brought me into this world, discriminated against me, stripped me of opportunity and now you expect me to have a good life? Wtf?
Same. I’m honestly shocked.
I’m not sure why “perfectly healthy physically” matters…. There’s more to life than the body and most physical issues can be fixed or made manageable, incurable mental illness is really the big one, i don’t expect anyone other than those that struggle with incurable mental illness to understand….
If you feel like that it's great but again you can't tell others what to feel nor feel what they feel.
@@mirrrie how am I doing either of those things?
A fruit based diet with regenerative herbs like Robert Morse nd teaches has helped people heal their thyroid and increase calcium utilization which helps heal depression.
Because being 'perfectly healthy physically' means that you have the means to do things with your life other than just sit around and get bummed out.
@@BOBMAN1980 no it doesn’t, as my comment says, your physical body is on a part of the equation, if your mind is not in a healthy enough state, no people can’t function, that’s why “perfectly healthy physically” is like an uneducated view on health. It acts like the only thing that matters is wether your body can function, that’s not, at all. The brain is a very important part of the body…. Like wtf?!
So some mentally ill parents will cause souch pain and abuse that the victim will never recover. Life is suffering for everyone, but some people might be suffering 10 or 20 times more.
I think the regulations should be that the patient is convinced they need it and can't be persuaded otherwise, no like medical requirements.
Even if they can recover, it's inhumane to ask people to go through extreme anguish and suffering for your policy sake.
If you asked people who recovered, they'd probably tell you they'd want to have the option at least available.
It's so stupid and selfish to tell people, they have to go through extreme selfish and suffering, and they aren't allowed to get assist and they have to do it themselves, and I guess 30k people a year do
Kyle seems to not understand depression LITERALLY causes physical pain.
The mind is not separate from the body. It can be just as permanent and serious as physical conditions.
Many people have this understanding and it will be left in the dust after some decades.
It's your life do what you want with it. I've never understood why the outside world gets involved with that.
do you struggle with depression? the whole "did you really try everything?" its really hurtful. as someone whos struggled with chronic pain since I was 15, and to be told did you try everything, its hard to not feel like your just not seeing their suffering and their attempts to improve as valid.
Any adult should be able to do what they want as long as they're not hurting another living being.
In Canada 4% of deaths were attributed medically assisted suicide last year, insane
Bad article. 'physically fit' is completely irrelevant, there's no point in being physically fit if you cant like your life
tbh it is the most important thing in life
I disagree entirely, because it clarifies that its not a depression thats caused by an immense physical ailment and is a purely mental or "psychogenic" illness. That makes this a rarer and more notable ruling.
@@DJ-ov2itI guess the brain isn’t apart of the body anymore.
@@Dawg476 If you see zero distinction between mental and physical illnesses, I cant help you.
@@DJ-ov2it Yeah I know what the distinction is but the brain is literally part of the physical because if it wasn’t you wouldn’t be able to scan the brain for diseases, depression ect. If you went and got a brain scan they can detect depression. Is something like liver disease considered physical?
No matter how we feel, I think we have a right to live our own lives how we see fit, including the right to end it. Just gut-wrenching stuff though. My heart breaks that any of us have to go this route, but this is how intolerable this life can become for some of us.
If you haven't experienced depression firsthand, and haven't seen someone you love in this kind of situation, I don't really want to hear your opinion on this issue.
You can tell that Kyle has never experienced any serious mental issues
In my case there was a drug out ther that gained fda approval 2 years ago for my illness. If i had gone through with it i wouldnt be enjoying my life now. I have friends and family. New hobbies like tech and rollerblading. Things that make life interesting. Im back in college and i actually got a 3.5...all things that i couldnt have done without medication before....i tried 40 some meds and 100s of different combos and im so young at 22. Im forever greatful. I think this question is difficult for society to answer. But this is better than them jumping out the window and maybe surviving and hurting themselves more
Good for her. She wont suffer anymore. Ive felt the same as her for years
So how you're feeling right now? Did you get better?
Same
Interesting is others in comments who have said similar, are passed right over by the virtue signalers who are against this woman's rights. It is not about concern for others, about control and making sure they are not made to feel uncomfortable. Hope you find some peace.
You still alive 🤞🏾??
@@heyrakorzlar no i didnt get better. I started seeing a therapist and taking anti-depressant meds, but they only worked for a few months and now im back to my regular sad self
euthanised for severe depression is a bit of a understatement i feel. Chronic depression + autism + borderline + anxiety + trauma, that is alot.....
Just one of those can cripple your life, all of that combined? i can't even imagine.