The reason I stopped playing SOD. When my guild wouldn’t invite me to the gnomer raid, since I had no experience. How can I get exp if I can’t get in a group in the first place? I could have lied of course but, it’s not fun for me if lying is needed just to have a good time. I understand those who are still enjoying SOD it was still super fun other than that aspect imo.
Not in my somewhat massive guild. They are killing it everywhere in the game. But the focus is on the journey and people are always there to help lower levels.
Right only top 1 percent ppl gate keep majority don't care and will play with anyone but the top 1 percent are also the ppl that make videos so ppl think they won't get in cause their favorite streamer says they won't lol
@@kiirbstompprobably the tanks getting too much damage, the DPS dont stop on reflect, dont interupt the silence from the squirrel or raid standing in the fire breath. Saying that as a healer in a pretty coordinated group. It's not that hard to heal when your tank(s) got some gear and people play the mechanics.
Have to respectfully disagree with your take. It’s very much a streamer attitude. We run with guildies regardless of spec. And when it comes to pugs we aren’t too picky either. We are by no means a great raid team but we were able to carry a fresh level 40 warrior in questing greens without any wipes or issues.
You misunderstood Aggrend. Hes not saying people that are tryharding are insecure. Hes referring to tryhards / "tryhards" that want to impose that way of playing onto others and gatekeep and/or flame them cuz of it.
It's classic wow these mechanics are not hard. we're not clearing DragonSongReprise here. like people just need to shut up and get together and clear content what is so hard about that.
@@noble61483 It is kind of funny when it's a level 40 easy raid, yes. imagine asking people for world buffs, consumes for deadmines. It's not mythic + it's freaking SOD lol. I am sorry if you think clearing Gnomer makes you good at Wow, it really is not a hard raid.
Even if you have full consumes, prebis, worldbuffs, they will still not invite you if you dont have wcl or full clear lol. you will get kicked for someone who has logs. Day 2 people asking for 6/6 haha
Trying to find a pug in p2 takes so long, its a horrible experience if you are not a meta spec, there is no discovery here, its just playing meta specs. and before ppl say join a guild thats not alweays easy as ppl are not accepting new ppkl
"SOD is dead to me. The leveling journey is boring, to be honest. I've leveled two characters to the 50s. I'm done with it. The end game? Oh man, these sweaty wannabes are so cringe with parse checking and having egos in an easy game. It takes forever just to join a group to do the content. I do not care to join a guild so I can stick to a consistent raid schedule. I'd rather do stuff in real life than make time for raiding. I just want to queue up and get in a group in a couple of minutes. I want a low entry barrier to get started and work my way up. In retail, I just climb at a steady pace with consistent rewards in mythic dungeons instead of getting PRE-BIS, TOP PARSE, COMP LOCKED just to do any challenging content, man. By the way, I am a sweaty gamer. I've played Tekken, League of Legends, and Starcraft 2 at a top 1-3% level. SOD for me is not a skill issue, it's a time issue just to do any challenging content when cringe lords gatekeep you, treating their raids like a NASA space mission. Why are we treating BFD and Gnomeregan like it's high-level mythic raiding or key pushing? The design elements of having raid lockouts instead of having loot lockouts like retail do greatly contribute to the gatekeeping. Yes, yes, wannabe sweats are going to yell at me to just make a group. I did before, and it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work when I just want to interact with the game, not getting competent people together. The SOD game design just isn't for me. I want more challenging mythic-like dungeon content. Hopefully, delves do that. Imagine some Mage Tower-style difficulty with 2-4 other people; that's my thing. I don't treat WoW like an esport; I just pivot to doing engaging combat. The reason why I love games like Monster Hunter and Grandblue Relink with RPG elements. I also closed my game when we spent 40 mins to get a group together for SM library only to be wiping on trash mobs, I could have leveled up so much faster on AOE farming with my mage. Yea classic isn't for me.
It is what it is, there is no solving it. There will always be people taking video games too seriously, just chill and as soon as you get into a job interview for a raid then just move on and find a non-toxic group. If you are into parsing then by all means go for it.
This is a problem but no where near as bad as people are making it i see sweat backs in my realm and all you gotta do is block them and find another group i am guildless and have full bis on both specs on my druid.
The casual crowd is so loud but it’s so weird how there aren’t enough casual raids that don’t care about parses…. Bro make your own casual raid wtf?!?! Lol
Complaining that every spec isnt viable is silly at this point. Some of these classes that need a buff would be completley broken in pvp. Remember shadow priest gloabaling people at the beginning of the phase??? Yeah....its a real consideration when balancing certain specs.
My take and experiences Blizzard punishes pugs by not having retail style loot lockouts. Which makes people take measures to not want to fail. Understandable 2.SOD end game content is not hard, its easy, SOD players get a ego for no reason. Which is crazy because there is also hella bad players. I did monster hunter solo speed runs, played high elo league of legends(masters), played high elo starcraft 2(diamond), did high rated retail arenas(2400). I know true sweatyness, SOD is not hard. What frustrates me is not getting in a raid fast enough due to these pretentious wannabes. I dont do guilds because my schedule is volatile and dont commit to regular raid times. I did eventually just lie and build my parses. Its just the nature of wow and it's systems. Like you dont play classic wow to sweat outta your mind, sure there is min maximg but some of these wannabes are so cringe. Go play a sweaty competitive online pvp game to really sweat your ass crack out, or retail.SOD is not for a sweaty experience, its so casual with all the changes they are doing.
Your take is just wrong man. My mage main since 2019 classic to current wrath has averaged 95+ parse through all of the content. Now my hunter on crusader strike is full prebis with some BIS. I have WBs all consumes and have watched all boss fights so I’m not blind going into gnomer. A month into phase 2 now at level 40 and I legit can’t find a group. I’ve joined 2 guilds and signed up for raids but I’m left off the roster and I’ve even tried to form groups but it’s always a issue finding healer/tank. Just like people use as an excuse that they don’t want to be in raid for hours, well sometimes forming a group takes hours… long story short, ended my sub. Im sure many others will end there’s as well.
come to Lava Lash EU Horde, never seen a single group that asks for logs :D You do have room to accomodate non-meta classes because you don't need 500+ dps to kill anything in wow. My guild has 3 ranged hunters in the comp since day 1 and it's never been an issue.
I loved phase one because you could PUG BFD no voice and always clear. I quit phase two because trying to get into gnomer is like applying for jobs. Phase two is not fun and I hope in phase three the new raid is at least 25 man.
Phase 2 is WAAAY better and more fun. U can still go run bfd for fun as a 40 and pump some Numbers and help noobs level, i do that often. GET BETTER AT PUSHING buttons. Shit if u can't improve at a 20 year old video game, to get invited to a raid, blame urself. Find a way. No one owes you shit.
@@noble61483 It's CLASSIC though not retail, as a classic Andy I always find it amusing to see retailers going crazy over parsing and meta gaming. Classic has always been mute coms blast music, have a few beers and chill. The parselords used to dwell in Mythic + in retail. Oh well I don't mind let people sweat - when I was a teenager back in original vanilla I was sweaty too at times. It's a maturity thing.
I found it ok. I pugged my first run of BFD without perfect gear/parses/consumables. I was also able to join my guild for raiding on the same basis. The guild later became more focused on consumables but that was about it.
As a former mythic raider from WoD through Legion, I find it so weird that I experienced less gate keeping in a version of the game with 100x harder content.
I don't think PuG'ing is as difficult as these folks make it out to be. I think you hit the nail on the head, when you said they want to be the only underperformer and be carried... they aren't interested in working through it as a team. They want all the success with no sacrifice. On [Living Flame] we have a guild where we raid Blind, don't use Addons (mechanic/boss), and let people play whatever class/spec they think is fun. We overcome the Meta together, and we had great fun and achieved a feeling of real accomplishment in clearing Gnomer together. We started it during phase 1 after feeling it wasn't difficult enough or satisfying, so a few of us said, "Let's do it our way". Point being, there are other people out there that want to play the game the way you do - whichever way that is. You just have to put in some work to find them. 2nd point, we're recruiting for phase 3 20 mans, pst for info :)
About gatekeeping: I agree gatekeeping phenomenon has always existed. BUT: On the other hand: the blizzard developer team should worry and find ways to include new players, and other players as well to the full content of the game, at some point, the subscribers should have access to what they pay, But not by an arbitrary decision made by another random in-game player based on third-party applications. That limitation should be decided by Blizzard's in-game programming tool and not by another in-game player. A lot of people will finish their subscriptions and turn to private servers instead and none will enjoy the game, not even the gatekeeping population will enjoy having an empty server and low activity in AH. One solution could be the implementation of RDF with the automatic gear score/item level check before joining specific dungeons, Tool used before in some expansions, The limitations decided by a Blizzard in-game tool and not arbitrarily by another random in-game player. Players could still do their parses and hit their chest about how good they are and show their results to each other and compare decks.
Ironically agreeing with the post. If the difference between getting to a point where you’re not dog shit is doing the content you’re being kept from then… how’s that not gatekeeping why would people who have the gear already need to do that raid? The people who cleared it in the first place didn’t have the gear that’s being asked for now so if you started late you’re held to a standard others were not held to for gear even if you play the same or better. This is also still an ongoing problem regardless. People who haven’t been keeping up now can’t and just leave the game anyways.
A VERY small number of people are trying to turn Gnomer into the equivalent of a wow manhattan project, and I think the reason why is that they want to feel AWESOME'er than other people by making it seem hard. It's just a narcissistic ego trip. I also know these parsers are the same dudes who raced to get to 40 and paid full price for mounts and ground out that slow reputation before it was 'delighted'. Meanwhile, those of us who have played this game through it's history know that shortly after next update, Gnomer will be on solo farm. Sometimes it's best to play wow on slow mode, ignore the narcissists and have fun. There are a LOT of average groups out there finishing Gnomer, pugs without parsers. And a lot of nice guilds out there killin it too. Join one.
Magnus Moller is right in some sence. I gotten 99+ parses as healer & dps druid and always make my own raids. The moment others join and see not everyone is 80+ they wil leave immediatly. Making a raid group take longer then it does to actually clear raid.. So yes it is indeed a problem. I'm forced to only invite high parses or groups do not stick, so I actually have to kick IRL friends because they have logs in the 70-80s when PUGGING. And yes i'm in a guild, which raids every 3 days, but there always missing a few people and getting the last few PUGs presents the exact same issue. They might aswell introduce 'ahead of the curve' into classic, so you can prove you did it week 1.
I think your missing a major point. SoD has drawn a lot of new players/Subscribers to WoW. The concept of getting WB's, enchants and consumes to be raid ready is something that needs to be learned. I am seeing new players make 40 not be able to do end game and quit. There is nothing in the game that is telling these new players what they need to do be "Accepted" into end game content. Instead they think it is gate keeping and a Toxic wow player base.
You’re missing a major point. Two things. MMOs are meant to be played with a group. Ie a guild. New players should be seeking out a guild, a casual guild most likely. That’s where they can learn the ropes. Secondly, there’s a million guides all over the place that can tell you everything you need to know. RUclips. Wowhead so many more. There’s no excuse to be lacking knowledge in any game with the ease of information these days.
I would argue though that full consumables really isn't necessary though. Like this game isn't hard I feel like some groups are just trying way too hard to clear it as fast as possible and then never speak to each other till next week
@parkerfrode5101 this. My guild has a bunch of parsers and we also have a couple people that are brand new to wow. We taught them these things and you can watch their parse go from Gray to green to blues. Goes right back to not putting in the effort if you're complaining about this.
if you are having this problem i would say guilds are the fix here if you're on Living Flame and Horde and still need a guild hit up anyone from Knights of Shame we'd be welcome to help you out!
SoD not being balanced is just wrong. Its actually insanely balanced considering its a "new" game mode, but you have to look at more than just dps. (Ranged hunter being far off i could understand being weird though) Shadow priest, boomies, ferals are not top tier dps, but instead invited for their buffs. The main issue that i see is this: Phase 2 bosses actually require a good "mix" of melee/ranged, with ranged being more favorable. This, together with the insane amount of melee characters from Phase 1 (when melee ruled the land), makes the 10 man raid limit not enough. There's simply too many warriors, rogues, retri, hunters (the top dogs from p1), and not that many mages, warlocks, boomies, shadow priests
The guy from the original tweet wants to find a group with geared people for an easy run. He wants everyone else to meet those requirements he listed other than himself so he can have a very easy time.
As long as you have a person that knows how to click their interrupt, its an easy time no matter what. Like the main reason ive wiped there is others not knowing when to interrupt the last boss.
@StaysafeTV - Hello man, I'm typing here for a problem noone talks about, but we need to have discussion. There are a lot of people getting banned for no reason or not using any hacks including me in the redit section. It seems when you done a lot of dungeon farming doesn't matter which dungeon you can get falsely banned for Offense: Exploitative Activity: Unauthorized Cheat Programs (Hacks). This should be addreseed as it seems innocent people getting banned and the system for banning bots currently is working bad. Please check this comment and give attention as you are a big streamer! Thank you in advance
The problem with "balancing" all classes is you tweak something in one place and it upsets balance somewhere else (the most obvious example is pve vs pvp). Also, is every _spec_ of every class supposed to be S Tier? If Melee Hunter is top5, do the ranged hunters still have a right to complain? Melee Hunter isn't hard to play so what's the issue here?
so many ppl complain about ranged hunter to not doing dps as others melee... you cant boost hunter dmg to same dps as warrior/rogue cause their dmg is most cause wf... take away wf from warrior and MM hunter doing way more dmg than warrior... so if you boost hunter doing same dmg as warrior in pve -they start one shooting ppl in pvp... only one things can probably fix it :D make wf for melee/ranged extra atack i think :D
lol its funny bc im someone who gets clowned on in trade chat for checking logs and putting together a "tryhard" group, but i'll still take a ranged hunt for trueshot aura and even an Arcane mage DPS for 3rd healer insurance if the PUG struggles, shadow priest isnt great now, i'll still take them for vampiric embrace or if we dont have a priest heal for fort buff... THE ONLY SPEC that i dont allow in is Frost mage rn, bc they do less dmg and have no utility, mind you im a rogue main, and if rogues were any further down, they'd get the same treatment from even me. Rogues (any spec) are the only ones in the game with subpar dmg and no utility, otherwise ill take any class, only other spec thats s no-go is frost mage.
@@billyhawj9150”casual” is a cope to skilless dudes, we can find in game so many reals casual with less than 2 hour a day and even with it, they play well
@@flix1179 two hours a day is still 14 hours a week. Even if you drop that down to 10, it's still a lot of time for the average adult to devote to ONE game.
@@seanwilliams7655saying 10 hours a week is a lot is crazy. That’s an hour and a half a day everyone has that much free time. It just depends how u spend it.
@@prhitter52 10 hours a week for ONE GAME is a lot for a guy working full time with a wife, kids, and friends that all need some attention. If you think that’s nothing, I don’t know what to tell you
I don't agree that the point of loot is just to see big numbers or to out DPS your friend. The main point of loot, in my opinion, is to make raid easier and progress AS A TEAM. Level 25 or level 40 raids are nothing more than a glorified dungeon. And 10-man size is OK. They are not even hard. So gatekeeping is indeed killing the game because people are raiding for the wrong reasons... It's all about big numbers, win a fake race 🏁 out DPS other raiders or even worst... anonymous people in a parsing chart. I play for fun... and like to have fun with other people. To have fun with numbers go and find a job in accounting, statistics or ad a warehouse
I have a very demanding job, a wife, a kid and I can barely play the game. But I never had any issues finding a group with any of my characters. Every class in the game has at least one viable spec to perform ok. And then, you have to learn how to advertise yourself. If you don't have logs, then tell the raidleader about your previous achievements in the game. I'm sure one of them will bite. The problem is the zoomers that want everything to be handed over to them on a silver platter. Grey parsers that wanna join a realm first speedrun group and get mad when they get declined.
Ya I just lost all respect I had for Josh after that tweet. Now it makes sense why SoD is failing so hard rn. A casual is driving the boat. Nothing wrong with casual players, but mid to high end players are what keep a mmo a live. And SoD lacks any aspect for those players.
This is just simply false. Are you saying that out of the 7m subs that WoW has, the 3% that do mythics keep the game alive? I'm a mythic raider myself but you are delusional 😂 Casuals keep MMOs alive as much as you may dislike it.
@@benjaminpotts He was coming from the angle of hey you don't have runes, gear or experience so why should you be carried and based his whole take from there. I don't think many people have any issue with refusing level 40s that have level 20 gear. It's when people have all runes, they have pre-raid bis, they have what's needed to clear but their parsing is 75 instead of 83 or they just happen to be a class that does 5% worse on the DPS meter. Personally I am pretty casual and I would rather clear 20 mins slower and have a few wipes than raid with people having such mindset. Me and my friends usually make our own groups, in our experience the guys we invite that care the most about parse numbers are also the most toxic people to raid with.
This person would have not survived original classic wow when good guilds made you apply to join their guild lmao I'm talking about filling out a sheet and do a guild job interview in some cases.
In the Original, you can throw 35 headless chickens into MC as long as 5 people are sort of competent you will clear it. A "good" guild back in original vanilla wow would be considered worse than a PUG by today's standards.
I'm probably "arguing" semantics here, as I agree with most of what you said, but I think "class balance" is seen as mostly fine. It's spec balance that has a large gap. In a pug setting, frost and arcane mage can play fire until they have some gear/logs and then can likely play whatever they want. Same with hunters going melee before they go ranged. Certain specializations are going to lack, but as long as their classes are represented with another specialization they probably won't make massive adjustments.
@@TheAustin09 I agree. Rogues being a pure dps class (okay sure they can tank), but below hybrid classes is the one exception to my point about distinguishing between class and spec balance.
@@TheAustin09 All it does is make the raid go slightly faster. Im not sure if you'd even want that because there isn't much else to do besides raid or pvp. I cleared gnome with an average of 250 dps as a fresh lvl 40 paladin. I was 4th in dps out of everybody. Don't look too much add the dps meter because everybody already does so much damage for that raid that it doesn't matter. We also run 4 paladins every raid. All I had was my bfd gear. The raid is so incredibly easy it doesn't matter what you bring.
With my normal guild we take like one noob each time but when I run with my alt I always go for those tryhard groups. Just so much faster to clear. I dont want to sit in gnomer for like 2 hours with some randoms
I cant stand the OP itemization in SoD. Hopefully it balances out by lvl 60 Im really sorry to tell you, but a game designer needs* to fight against what players SAY they want. Hes right. the only thing youre right about is that class balance fixes the issue.
At the end of the day, you coming unprepared to a raid is a “toxic casual” mentality. Your off meta/unprepared toon is a liability that means the raids time will take longer then it needs to. It’s literally us against the clock so we don’t spend 3+ hours in a raid. Join a guild. That’s really the answer. You not improving, or being the “gnome without boots” is actively griefing your fellow raiders. It’s really that simple.
gnomer had just came out and i hit 40 the first week. i tried to get into a grp and when i was summoned to do thee raid i had w.e enchants were available and all the dungeon pieces you could get at the time. i DID NOT have 5k a piece boe's that they all had tho lol. they literally said ur gear is too low we are going to take someone else. i asked what other pieces should i have? the said u dont even have a trinket or the bis ring (underworld band) explain to me how tf that matters in the first week of gnomer lmfao. i quit a few weeks later due to feeling like i needed to buy gold to "catch up" and keep up. well idk how this will be taken but idk, my parses in wow have always been in the upper 80's and mid 90's but fuck dude i dont think SOD is about parsing lol. classic is supposed to be fun, i get the "being the best mentality" bc i have it. but what i went through when i played was ridiculous. even if i farmed the gold required to buy a boe that costs 5 -7k im wouldnt fucking do it lol. it makes no sense to buy something like that to gert what? 10 spellpower?? lol
I'm not a min/maxer but I also dont want to be spending 4 hours in a raid when I could be clearing it in half that time. This is another reason people gatekeep. I definitely understand frustrations considering I played a ret pally most of my WoW career and couldnt ever get invited to groups but I also understand not wanting to spend way more time in a raid when alot of us are grown ups with stuff to do IRL as well.
I love it when you encounter these parse-lords wanting to have an interview with you before inviting you then you just say fuck it whisper someone else, get invited, go clear gnomer, check the /who on the parselord when you finished and the guy is still in Gnomer. 🤣 Yeah he probably cleared the raid 10 mins faster than me but he also spent 40 min longer to get a group together so in the end you will be done before him anyway.
"SOD is dead to me. The leveling journey is boring, to be honest. I've leveled two characters to the 50s. I'm done with it. The end game? Oh man, these sweaty wannabes are so cringe with parse checking and having egos in an easy game. It takes forever just to join a group to do the content. I do not care to join a guild so I can stick to a consistent raid schedule. I'd rather do stuff in real life than make time for raiding. I just want to queue up and get in a group in a couple of minutes. I want a low entry barrier to get started and work my way up. In retail, I just climb at a steady pace with consistent rewards in mythic dungeons instead of getting PRE-BIS, TOP PARSE, COMP LOCKED just to do any challenging content, man. By the way, I am a sweaty gamer. I've played Tekken, League of Legends, and Starcraft 2 at a top 1-3% level. SOD for me is not a skill issue, it's a time issue just to do any challenging content when cringe lords gatekeep you, treating their raids like a NASA space mission. Why are we treating BFD and Gnomeregan like it's high-level mythic raiding or key pushing? The design elements of having raid lockouts instead of having loot lockouts like retail do greatly contribute to the gatekeeping. Yes, yes, wannabe sweats are going to yell at me to just make a group. I did before, and it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work when I just want to interact with the game, not getting competent people together. The SOD game design just isn't for me. I want more challenging mythic-like dungeon content. Hopefully, delves do that. Imagine some Mage Tower-style difficulty with 2-4 other people; that's my thing. I don't treat WoW like an esport; I just pivot to doing engaging combat. The reason why I love games like Monster Hunter and Grandblue Relink with RPG elements. I also closed my game when we spent 40 mins to get a group together for SM library only to be wiping on trash mobs, I could have leveled up so much faster on AOE farming with my mage. Yea classic isn't for me.
Guys aren’t going to want to hear it, but gdkps would solve a lot of this gatekeeping, people would carry the crappy players/classes with their bis characters as long as they get some gold for it
It's not as bad as its made out to be. The majority of players don't really like the parse-min-maxing crowds. Plenty of raids going on that don't give a sh1t, mostly through guilds. Pugging is always going to have the potential to be toxic. Problems with GDKPS was it made people just rely on random pugs now with GDKPS gone you really need to find like minded people or guilds to have an enjoyable experience which people that have been stuck doing GDKPS for years and years don't understand.
class balance is terrible, 10 mans are awful and just make it more glaring. feel like devs arent even gamers with some of these takes too lol. shit i feel like theyre so out of touch with MMO players now, theyve even made a Battle Royale lmao. i dont even know anymore man
Season of discovery sucks because they don't actually care. They don't understand their own game. They don't want to understand their own game. They want to maximize their ability to monetize it. Season of Discovery was a bait and switch. They knew the Classic community wanted a genuine classic+. They pretended their intention was to deliver this. By now if you've been paying attention it is glaringly obvious that is not the case. They instead have injected retail into the classic world. They are actively ruining classic's core structure in SOD with horrible end game class design and boring uninspired content. They have no idea how to made progression feel rewarding anymore. They've basically ruined Season of Discovery the moment they announced that traditional 40 man raids were going to be reduced to 20 man. If that isn't the biggest retailification of Classic then I don't know what is. 40 man raid is arguably the keystone aspect of classic. Requiring that number is tedious yet builds the world that builds the guilds that build the community. You've deflated your entire world. The entirety of SOD has been a process of not requiring a guild for anything. This is the energy of retail. Classic fundamentally forces you into a guild because the content does not get pugged due to the size requirement. Are you starting to see what I'm trying to say? Who cares that it's tedious to get 40 together...THAT is the soul of classic. it's the reason it feels different than all of the other expansions. The required numbers builds the community. IT forces it. SOD you can pug everything easily. There is no rewarding sense of progression whatsoever. I get handed my BIS weapon from the HORRIBLE stv event each phase... the crafting epic has become stale and obligatory after only 2 phases.... they have no real ideas. They have no effort to reimbue the world with a sense of defined purpose. Turtle wow did did classic+ so much better so far. SOD is a joke that proves Blizzard get's outperformed by it's own fans when the rubber hits the road. No wonder they so desperately fight in court to prevent private servers . It's the ONLY thing they seem to actually devote effort to....protecting their financial ownership of the game they don't care about or understand at all.
There are plenty of raid groups that aren't min maxing that hard with players that don't care much about who does the most dps. For them all it matters is can they clear the content and get some loot? So in a way Josh is right and Staysafe might be a bit too much in his Elite-bubble? Even myself, i raid with pvp spec most of the time because i don't care that much about how much dps i do in a raid. I just need a few items from the raid for pvp. That's all i care about. So naturally i don't join raid groups that care about parses or clearspeed. The guy who started the discussion is obviously an idiot anyway :D
Yeah but that gnomer clear take 3-4 hour. I don't have time to waste on stupid such as people not knowing how to simply move when dbm tells them to. Most people in life don't want to be associated with lazy, or stupid people. Period. I don't min max or even try to go crazy on parses, but I make sure I put in effort and do a very good job. Now at 60, I'll start parsing more
@@romanteni Actually I am pretty sure most people that don't care that much don't waste that much time. You have to remember these parselords spend a lot of time forming their groups. They might clear faster but you are probably better off not joining as they will take quite some time to form the group. I love to whisper and be asked 1000 questions which immediately tells me whisp another group. Get invited, clear Gnome, Go back IF check /Who on the guy caring about parsing see he's still stuck in Gnomer for another 20-30 minutes. He might have cleared it 10 mins faster than I did but he also spent 40 mins longer to form the group.
Dear @staysafetv i liked your content during hardcore vanilla (before official) and i am in shock on how out of touch you are now. According to you people that dont get invited are lazy who just want to get carried ? you automatically assume these people dont have runes , good gear , knowledge etc ? Really ?
I have 4 characters at max level and from all my experience, it's a pain to sit in a gnomer for 3 hrs like it's progression with ppl that haven't cleared it yet, or are just poor players. I get why people "gatekeep". Because they want to: 1. Actually kill the bosses, 2. Not waste their time carrying, 3. Not waste an absurd amount of time when they can just get other players closer to their level. Sorry to say but it's not insecure, it's about respecting people's time. And if I really wanna get all 4 of my toons through the raid, I'd rather get it done in 4 hrs than 12.
I mean they are games; most if not all of it is wasted time. These are probably players in a much different demographic that only have time or care about one toon; they're not dedicated to the game, they just want to have a good time and it might be hard to see in the thick of it but a good time for a lot of people can mean not getting through as fast as possible or full clear in one session. In a healthy game this is often the majority of the player base. It makes a good community having those with a willingness to bring along and carry some of these players; it likely means more to them than you at that point and maybe they pay it forward or stick around longer and contribute to a vibrant community. To each their own - and it can be hard to pull back and change perspective in this way when you're much more deeply invested in something - but there's a lot of good feeling/times to be had realizing you can make one or two people's days with simple acts or gift of some of your time. Good karma if you will
He's not wrong on the gatekeeping thing. People are hard gatekeeping and you check their logs and they are low blue parsing. That person's group isn't the problem after 10 "parse runs" and the best they can do is low blue. Most of these gamer dads do have delusions of grandeur, but you are also not wrong on the people doing zero to make themselves look good in order to get invited in the first place. His point about understanding that bad players do gatekeep because they themselves are trying to get carried is absolutely true, and someone complaining on the forums isn't going to understand that nuance.
"they dont want to play with 9 other people just like them, with no preparation and no effort because nothing will get done, they want to get carried by 9 other people who have all their stuff and put the effort in" - literally just described the Democrats jajaja
Might be a correlation with intolerant attitude and ability to cooperate in a guild atmosphere; that is there might be a reason this is prevalent in PUG culture
PEOPLE ARE SO STUPID we are level 40 some classes shine more at certain lvl caps remember level 25 hunters ruled the world it was just that level like now we have shamans and mages going crazy its just level 40 they have enough of their kit to be busted THERE IS NOT A BALANCE ISSURE WITH CLASSES its the level bracket makes some outshine others so yelling oh buff this fix this is BABY MODE
I have never seen someone be so wrong in my life lmao, you have no idea what the point of a MMORPG is it is not gear collecting at all for the majority of players. The people who think like you in this video are the minority by far. What they should do is add the dungeon followers from retail to work with raids in SoD, that way people like you can take only the unbalanced power classes to raid and the other 99% can use AI that do not require background checks, personal life history and 3rd party site logs to play the game.
People are just complaining "Oh I don't get invited into groups, I'm so sad". But guys... just do your own group, it's not that hard to invite people yourself and invite people that are being rejected like you and clear the raid... People are so assisted nowadays, it's really crazy. What do you need more ? That we feed you like a baby ?
Nope. Nobody gives a crap what the meters say as long as they get the loot. sure, there's an element of bragging rights over meters, but they have never mattered one goddamn bit as long as the bosses are falling. Never. Not since 2004 and not now. Thy are a good crutch for learning to do better so you can get to that point, but they are 100% irrelevant once you reach it. And you're deliberately misinterpreting. People are gatekeeping against people with 430+ ilvl just because they don't already have 6/6. You're arranging your argument to be convnenient for yourself by assuming it's only poorly geared bads who get gatekept. A certain percentage of the community gets there and then pulls up the ladder.
![Gucci Mane & Sexyy Red - You Don't Love Me [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/j7IBqyFKT4c/mqdefault.jpg)
The reason I stopped playing SOD. When my guild wouldn’t invite me to the gnomer raid, since I had no experience. How can I get exp if I can’t get in a group in the first place? I could have lied of course but, it’s not fun for me if lying is needed just to have a good time. I understand those who are still enjoying SOD it was still super fun other than that aspect imo.
Bro what kind of shit guild is that
This story I made up.
The answer was to join another guild. Also there are a lot of pugs out there successfully clearing it every day. It's not rocket science.
You were in a sh&tty guild, then. Wrong focus.
I mean, I know many people that quit because of meta gating. It used to be that mmo was about community. I guess now mmo now is about getting numbers?
Not in my somewhat massive guild. They are killing it everywhere in the game. But the focus is on the journey and people are always there to help lower levels.
i actually love bringing ANYONE to my groups, we full clear no matter what...
Right only top 1 percent ppl gate keep majority don't care and will play with anyone but the top 1 percent are also the ppl that make videos so ppl think they won't get in cause their favorite streamer says they won't lol
Most ppl just want body’s to raid!! And don’t want ninjas!!!
I didn’t full clear gnomer today. Healers couldn’t handle menagerie.
@@kiirbstompprobably the tanks getting too much damage, the DPS dont stop on reflect, dont interupt the silence from the squirrel or raid standing in the fire breath. Saying that as a healer in a pretty coordinated group. It's not that hard to heal when your tank(s) got some gear and people play the mechanics.
Then you’re not the one complaining.
Have to respectfully disagree with your take. It’s very much a streamer attitude. We run with guildies regardless of spec. And when it comes to pugs we aren’t too picky either. We are by no means a great raid team but we were able to carry a fresh level 40 warrior in questing greens without any wipes or issues.
If you don’t have full 100 parses you don’t get to carry my full grey parse characters.
"Here are my logs since 2019 up to 2024 so I can run gnomer with my overpowered class and abilities :) "
You misunderstood Aggrend. Hes not saying people that are tryharding are insecure. Hes referring to tryhards / "tryhards" that want to impose that way of playing onto others and gatekeep and/or flame them cuz of it.
It's classic wow these mechanics are not hard. we're not clearing DragonSongReprise here.
like people just need to shut up and get together and clear content what is so hard about that.
It’s annoying, checking logs, must have exp, pre-bis, full buffs and consumes.
All so you can kill raid in 30 minutes then go back to new casting
It annoying people want you in pre bis with buffs and consumables? 😅 how about quit being lazy and wanting others to carry you? 🤣
@@noble61483 f it . I’m lazy then. Not gonna be making a grocery list
@@noble61483 It is kind of funny when it's a level 40 easy raid, yes. imagine asking people for world buffs, consumes for deadmines. It's not mythic + it's freaking SOD lol. I am sorry if you think clearing Gnomer makes you good at Wow, it really is not a hard raid.
Then make your own raid…
Even if you have full consumes, prebis, worldbuffs, they will still not invite you if you dont have wcl or full clear lol. you will get kicked for someone who has logs. Day 2 people asking for 6/6 haha
The warrior without windfury experience is pityful.
No feral? Forget parsing or even trying.
Warrior is in a bad spot, Protection can’t hold threat, Arms not enough dps. Arms tank borderline squish
As a warrior why play without wf? You have a choice idiot
Trying to find a pug in p2 takes so long, its a horrible experience if you are not a meta spec, there is no discovery here, its just playing meta specs. and before ppl say join a guild thats not alweays easy as ppl are not accepting new ppkl
"SOD is dead to me. The leveling journey is boring, to be honest. I've leveled two characters to the 50s. I'm done with it. The end game? Oh man, these sweaty wannabes are so cringe with parse checking and having egos in an easy game. It takes forever just to join a group to do the content. I do not care to join a guild so I can stick to a consistent raid schedule. I'd rather do stuff in real life than make time for raiding. I just want to queue up and get in a group in a couple of minutes. I want a low entry barrier to get started and work my way up. In retail, I just climb at a steady pace with consistent rewards in mythic dungeons instead of getting PRE-BIS, TOP PARSE, COMP LOCKED just to do any challenging content, man. By the way, I am a sweaty gamer. I've played Tekken, League of Legends, and Starcraft 2 at a top 1-3% level. SOD for me is not a skill issue, it's a time issue just to do any challenging content when cringe lords gatekeep you, treating their raids like a NASA space mission. Why are we treating BFD and Gnomeregan like it's high-level mythic raiding or key pushing? The design elements of having raid lockouts instead of having loot lockouts like retail do greatly contribute to the gatekeeping. Yes, yes, wannabe sweats are going to yell at me to just make a group. I did before, and it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work when I just want to interact with the game, not getting competent people together. The SOD game design just isn't for me. I want more challenging mythic-like dungeon content. Hopefully, delves do that. Imagine some Mage Tower-style difficulty with 2-4 other people; that's my thing. I don't treat WoW like an esport; I just pivot to doing engaging combat. The reason why I love games like Monster Hunter and Grandblue Relink with RPG elements.
I also closed my game when we spent 40 mins to get a group together for SM library only to be wiping on trash mobs, I could have leveled up so much faster on AOE farming with my mage. Yea classic isn't for me.
@@jesseperez4185 facts
It is what it is, there is no solving it. There will always be people taking video games too seriously, just chill and as soon as you get into a job interview for a raid then just move on and find a non-toxic group. If you are into parsing then by all means go for it.
Find people that play like you. It’s not hard
This is a problem but no where near as bad as people are making it i see sweat backs in my realm and all you gotta do is block them and find another group i am guildless and have full bis on both specs on my druid.
The casual crowd is so loud but it’s so weird how there aren’t enough casual raids that don’t care about parses…. Bro make your own casual raid wtf?!?! Lol
Complaining that every spec isnt viable is silly at this point. Some of these classes that need a buff would be completley broken in pvp. Remember shadow priest gloabaling people at the beginning of the phase??? Yeah....its a real consideration when balancing certain specs.
My take and experiences
Blizzard punishes pugs by not having retail style loot lockouts. Which makes people take measures to not want to fail. Understandable
2.SOD end game content is not hard, its easy, SOD players get a ego for no reason. Which is crazy because there is also hella bad players.
I did monster hunter solo speed runs, played high elo league of legends(masters), played high elo starcraft 2(diamond), did high rated retail arenas(2400). I know true sweatyness, SOD is not hard. What frustrates me is not getting in a raid fast enough due to these pretentious wannabes. I dont do guilds because my schedule is volatile and dont commit to regular raid times. I did eventually just lie and build my parses. Its just the nature of wow and it's systems. Like you dont play classic wow to sweat outta your mind, sure there is min maximg but some of these wannabes are so cringe. Go play a sweaty competitive online pvp game to really sweat your ass crack out, or retail.SOD is not for a sweaty experience, its so casual with all the changes they are doing.
ehhh.,....the raids are so easy so trying to even be optimal is a reach..
Your take is just wrong man. My mage main since 2019 classic to current wrath has averaged 95+ parse through all of the content. Now my hunter on crusader strike is full prebis with some BIS. I have WBs all consumes and have watched all boss fights so I’m not blind going into gnomer. A month into phase 2 now at level 40 and I legit can’t find a group. I’ve joined 2 guilds and signed up for raids but I’m left off the roster and I’ve even tried to form groups but it’s always a issue finding healer/tank. Just like people use as an excuse that they don’t want to be in raid for hours, well sometimes forming a group takes hours… long story short, ended my sub. Im sure many others will end there’s as well.
You can always find an excuse to
come to Lava Lash EU Horde, never seen a single group that asks for logs :D You do have room to accomodate non-meta classes because you don't need 500+ dps to kill anything in wow. My guild has 3 ranged hunters in the comp since day 1 and it's never been an issue.
I loved phase one because you could PUG BFD no voice and always clear. I quit phase two because trying to get into gnomer is like applying for jobs. Phase two is not fun and I hope in phase three the new raid is at least 25 man.
Phase 2 is WAAAY better and more fun. U can still go run bfd for fun as a 40 and pump some Numbers and help noobs level, i do that often. GET BETTER AT PUSHING buttons. Shit if u can't improve at a 20 year old video game, to get invited to a raid, blame urself. Find a way. No one owes you shit.
eh, bad takes all around, believe it or not friend, a large majority of players dont like to min max.closeminded views
If you don't want to play efficiently don't be mad when others don't want to take to into their group... that's not a bad take 😅
its a bad take because the reality is the content doesnt, and never requires anyone to be as sweaty as the standards these morons are deciding.
@@noble61483 It's CLASSIC though not retail, as a classic Andy I always find it amusing to see retailers going crazy over parsing and meta gaming. Classic has always been mute coms blast music, have a few beers and chill. The parselords used to dwell in Mythic + in retail. Oh well I don't mind let people sweat - when I was a teenager back in original vanilla I was sweaty too at times. It's a maturity thing.
I found it ok. I pugged my first run of BFD without perfect gear/parses/consumables. I was also able to join my guild for raiding on the same basis. The guild later became more focused on consumables but that was about it.
As a former mythic raider from WoD through Legion, I find it so weird that I experienced less gate keeping in a version of the game with 100x harder content.
I don't think PuG'ing is as difficult as these folks make it out to be. I think you hit the nail on the head, when you said they want to be the only underperformer and be carried... they aren't interested in working through it as a team. They want all the success with no sacrifice.
On [Living Flame] we have a guild where we raid Blind, don't use Addons (mechanic/boss), and let people play whatever class/spec they think is fun. We overcome the Meta together, and we had great fun and achieved a feeling of real accomplishment in clearing Gnomer together. We started it during phase 1 after feeling it wasn't difficult enough or satisfying, so a few of us said, "Let's do it our way".
Point being, there are other people out there that want to play the game the way you do - whichever way that is. You just have to put in some work to find them.
2nd point, we're recruiting for phase 3 20 mans, pst for info :)
Thank you for calling it out.
About gatekeeping: I agree gatekeeping phenomenon has always existed. BUT: On the other hand: the blizzard developer team should worry and find ways to include new players, and other players as well to the full content of the game, at some point, the subscribers should have access to what they pay, But not by an arbitrary decision made by another random in-game player based on third-party applications. That limitation should be decided by Blizzard's in-game programming tool and not by another in-game player. A lot of people will finish their subscriptions and turn to private servers instead and none will enjoy the game, not even the gatekeeping population will enjoy having an empty server and low activity in AH.
One solution could be the implementation of RDF with the automatic gear score/item level check before joining specific dungeons, Tool used before in some expansions, The limitations decided by a Blizzard in-game tool and not arbitrarily by another random in-game player. Players could still do their parses and hit their chest about how good they are and show their results to each other and compare decks.
Ironically agreeing with the post. If the difference between getting to a point where you’re not dog shit is doing the content you’re being kept from then… how’s that not gatekeeping why would people who have the gear already need to do that raid? The people who cleared it in the first place didn’t have the gear that’s being asked for now so if you started late you’re held to a standard others were not held to for gear even if you play the same or better. This is also still an ongoing problem regardless. People who haven’t been keeping up now can’t and just leave the game anyways.
A VERY small number of people are trying to turn Gnomer into the equivalent of a wow manhattan project, and I think the reason why is that they want to feel AWESOME'er than other people by making it seem hard. It's just a narcissistic ego trip. I also know these parsers are the same dudes who raced to get to 40 and paid full price for mounts and ground out that slow reputation before it was 'delighted'.
Meanwhile, those of us who have played this game through it's history know that shortly after next update, Gnomer will be on solo farm. Sometimes it's best to play wow on slow mode, ignore the narcissists and have fun. There are a LOT of average groups out there finishing Gnomer, pugs without parsers. And a lot of nice guilds out there killin it too. Join one.
The necessity to feel like a super duper player in a simple game-
Magnus Moller is right in some sence.
I gotten 99+ parses as healer & dps druid and always make my own raids. The moment others join and see not everyone is 80+ they wil leave immediatly. Making a raid group take longer then it does to actually clear raid.. So yes it is indeed a problem. I'm forced to only invite high parses or groups do not stick, so I actually have to kick IRL friends because they have logs in the 70-80s when PUGGING. And yes i'm in a guild, which raids every 3 days, but there always missing a few people and getting the last few PUGs presents the exact same issue.
They might aswell introduce 'ahead of the curve' into classic, so you can prove you did it week 1.
healthy discussion. thanks for sharing this
I think he's bitching because he can't go to gdkp
I think your missing a major point. SoD has drawn a lot of new players/Subscribers to WoW. The concept of getting WB's, enchants and consumes to be raid ready is something that needs to be learned. I am seeing new players make 40 not be able to do end game and quit. There is nothing in the game that is telling these new players what they need to do be "Accepted" into end game content. Instead they think it is gate keeping and a Toxic wow player base.
You’re missing a major point. Two things. MMOs are meant to be played with a group. Ie a guild. New players should be seeking out a guild, a casual guild most likely. That’s where they can learn the ropes. Secondly, there’s a million guides all over the place that can tell you everything you need to know. RUclips. Wowhead so many more. There’s no excuse to be lacking knowledge in any game with the ease of information these days.
It's like starting a new job don't ask any questions and being angry that your coworkers are better than you. 😂
No you’re just bad.
I would argue though that full consumables really isn't necessary though. Like this game isn't hard I feel like some groups are just trying way too hard to clear it as fast as possible and then never speak to each other till next week
@parkerfrode5101 this. My guild has a bunch of parsers and we also have a couple people that are brand new to wow. We taught them these things and you can watch their parse go from Gray to green to blues. Goes right back to not putting in the effort if you're complaining about this.
Pretty clueless for somepne whos profession is gaming xD
Yet you guys cry you don’t get invited lol
@@billyhawj9150 idk i havent missed single reset so far ;)
if you are having this problem i would say guilds are the fix here if you're on Living Flame and Horde and still need a guild hit up anyone from Knights of Shame we'd be welcome to help you out!
The point is that people choose the kind of gameplay they want. If they want to struggle with groups, they can avoid guilds.
SoD not being balanced is just wrong. Its actually insanely balanced considering its a "new" game mode, but you have to look at more than just dps. (Ranged hunter being far off i could understand being weird though)
Shadow priest, boomies, ferals are not top tier dps, but instead invited for their buffs.
The main issue that i see is this:
Phase 2 bosses actually require a good "mix" of melee/ranged, with ranged being more favorable. This, together with the insane amount of melee characters from Phase 1 (when melee ruled the land), makes the 10 man raid limit not enough.
There's simply too many warriors, rogues, retri, hunters (the top dogs from p1), and not that many mages, warlocks, boomies, shadow priests
The guy from the original tweet wants to find a group with geared people for an easy run. He wants everyone else to meet those requirements he listed other than himself so he can have a very easy time.
As long as you have a person that knows how to click their interrupt, its an easy time no matter what. Like the main reason ive wiped there is others not knowing when to interrupt the last boss.
You don't need gear for gnomer, all you need to know is the mechanics.
Exactly this.
@StaysafeTV - Hello man, I'm typing here for a problem noone talks about, but we need to have discussion. There are a lot of people getting banned for no reason or not using any hacks including me in the redit section. It seems when you done a lot of dungeon farming doesn't matter which dungeon you can get falsely banned for Offense: Exploitative Activity: Unauthorized Cheat Programs (Hacks). This should be addreseed as it seems innocent people getting banned and the system for banning bots currently is working bad. Please check this comment and give attention as you are a big streamer! Thank you in advance
The problem with "balancing" all classes is you tweak something in one place and it upsets balance somewhere else (the most obvious example is pve vs pvp). Also, is every _spec_ of every class supposed to be S Tier? If Melee Hunter is top5, do the ranged hunters still have a right to complain? Melee Hunter isn't hard to play so what's the issue here?
so many ppl complain about ranged hunter to not doing dps as others melee... you cant boost hunter dmg to same dps as warrior/rogue cause their dmg is most cause wf... take away wf from warrior and MM hunter doing way more dmg than warrior... so if you boost hunter doing same dmg as warrior in pve -they start one shooting ppl in pvp... only one things can probably fix it :D make wf for melee/ranged extra atack i think :D
Perfect take
Gatekeep early and often.
Lmao 😂😂
lol its funny bc im someone who gets clowned on in trade chat for checking logs and putting together a "tryhard" group, but i'll still take a ranged hunt for trueshot aura and even an Arcane mage DPS for 3rd healer insurance if the PUG struggles, shadow priest isnt great now, i'll still take them for vampiric embrace or if we dont have a priest heal for fort buff... THE ONLY SPEC that i dont allow in is Frost mage rn, bc they do less dmg and have no utility, mind you im a rogue main, and if rogues were any further down, they'd get the same treatment from even me. Rogues (any spec) are the only ones in the game with subpar dmg and no utility, otherwise ill take any class, only other spec thats s no-go is frost mage.
you cant forget that the most players are casuals and dont live in world of warcraft like you staysafe.
Then the rest of the players should play like they want? Why are there not more casual pug raids? Explain it to me
@@billyhawj9150”casual” is a cope to skilless dudes, we can find in game so many reals casual with less than 2 hour a day and even with it, they play well
@@flix1179 two hours a day is still 14 hours a week. Even if you drop that down to 10, it's still a lot of time for the average adult to devote to ONE game.
@@seanwilliams7655saying 10 hours a week is a lot is crazy. That’s an hour and a half a day everyone has that much free time. It just depends how u spend it.
@@prhitter52 10 hours a week for ONE GAME is a lot for a guy working full time with a wife, kids, and friends that all need some attention. If you think that’s nothing, I don’t know what to tell you
I don't agree that the point of loot is just to see big numbers or to out DPS your friend.
The main point of loot, in my opinion, is to make raid easier and progress AS A TEAM.
Level 25 or level 40 raids are nothing more than a glorified dungeon. And 10-man size is OK. They are not even hard.
So gatekeeping is indeed killing the game because people are raiding for the wrong reasons...
It's all about big numbers, win a fake race 🏁 out DPS other raiders or even worst... anonymous people in a parsing chart.
I play for fun... and like to have fun with other people. To have fun with numbers go and find a job in accounting, statistics or ad a warehouse
I have a very demanding job, a wife, a kid and I can barely play the game.
But I never had any issues finding a group with any of my characters. Every class in the game has at least one viable spec to perform ok. And then, you have to learn how to advertise yourself. If you don't have logs, then tell the raidleader about your previous achievements in the game. I'm sure one of them will bite.
The problem is the zoomers that want everything to be handed over to them on a silver platter. Grey parsers that wanna join a realm first speedrun group and get mad when they get declined.
+ none is obliged to carry anyone in their raid group. If you get declined, make a group yourself. This is disgusting.
Ya I just lost all respect I had for Josh after that tweet. Now it makes sense why SoD is failing so hard rn. A casual is driving the boat. Nothing wrong with casual players, but mid to high end players are what keep a mmo a live. And SoD lacks any aspect for those players.
This is just simply false. Are you saying that out of the 7m subs that WoW has, the 3% that do mythics keep the game alive? I'm a mythic raider myself but you are delusional 😂 Casuals keep MMOs alive as much as you may dislike it.
Man, just wanted to say how much I agree with your takes. It’s nice to have a voice of reason in all this. Keep it up.
Lmfao😂, staysafe a voice of reason? Dude might have the worst, most ignorant takes!
@@ronin1671 I’m open to hearing your perspective. What do you think is the worst take of this video?
@@benjaminpotts He was coming from the angle of hey you don't have runes, gear or experience so why should you be carried and based his whole take from there. I don't think many people have any issue with refusing level 40s that have level 20 gear. It's when people have all runes, they have pre-raid bis, they have what's needed to clear but their parsing is 75 instead of 83 or they just happen to be a class that does 5% worse on the DPS meter.
Personally I am pretty casual and I would rather clear 20 mins slower and have a few wipes than raid with people having such mindset. Me and my friends usually make our own groups, in our experience the guys we invite that care the most about parse numbers are also the most toxic people to raid with.
@@zjeee none of what you’re saying is opposite to staysafes take though so I don’t understand why that would be a counterpoint
This person would have not survived original classic wow when good guilds made you apply to join their guild lmao I'm talking about filling out a sheet and do a guild job interview in some cases.
In the Original, you can throw 35 headless chickens into MC as long as 5 people are sort of competent you will clear it. A "good" guild back in original vanilla wow would be considered worse than a PUG by today's standards.
I'm probably "arguing" semantics here, as I agree with most of what you said, but I think "class balance" is seen as mostly fine. It's spec balance that has a large gap. In a pug setting, frost and arcane mage can play fire until they have some gear/logs and then can likely play whatever they want. Same with hunters going melee before they go ranged. Certain specializations are going to lack, but as long as their classes are represented with another specialization they probably won't make massive adjustments.
I agree, but this means rogues are clearly lowest tier class. Zero reason to bring one over better classes.
@@TheAustin09 I agree. Rogues being a pure dps class (okay sure they can tank), but below hybrid classes is the one exception to my point about distinguishing between class and spec balance.
Give rogues windfury instead of ferals
@@TheAustin09 All it does is make the raid go slightly faster. Im not sure if you'd even want that because there isn't much else to do besides raid or pvp.
I cleared gnome with an average of 250 dps as a fresh lvl 40 paladin. I was 4th in dps out of everybody. Don't look too much add the dps meter because everybody already does so much damage for that raid that it doesn't matter. We also run 4 paladins every raid. All I had was my bfd gear. The raid is so incredibly easy it doesn't matter what you bring.
With my normal guild we take like one noob each time but when I run with my alt I always go for those tryhard groups. Just so much faster to clear. I dont want to sit in gnomer for like 2 hours with some randoms
I cant stand the OP itemization in SoD. Hopefully it balances out by lvl 60
Im really sorry to tell you, but a game designer needs* to fight against what players SAY they want. Hes right. the only thing youre right about is that class balance fixes the issue.
At the end of the day, you coming unprepared to a raid is a “toxic casual” mentality. Your off meta/unprepared toon is a liability that means the raids time will take longer then it needs to. It’s literally us against the clock so we don’t spend 3+ hours in a raid.
Join a guild. That’s really the answer. You not improving, or being the “gnome without boots” is actively griefing your fellow raiders. It’s really that simple.
kinda is true.. i was full pre bis fire mage spamming took awhile or had to make own group still got it done tho
I play a rogue and started with no logs, then grey logs, then got better gear and logs. Literally never missed a lockout as a pug dps rogue
Yes telling players how to play will end well.
You can tell the difference in the audiences of Asmongold and Staysafe by looking at the comments about this topic.
These raids are literally the easiest content wow has ever made that is why gatekeeping is cringe.
gnomer had just came out and i hit 40 the first week. i tried to get into a grp and when i was summoned to do thee raid i had w.e enchants were available and all the dungeon pieces you could get at the time. i DID NOT have 5k a piece boe's that they all had tho lol. they literally said ur gear is too low we are going to take someone else. i asked what other pieces should i have? the said u dont even have a trinket or the bis ring (underworld band) explain to me how tf that matters in the first week of gnomer lmfao. i quit a few weeks later due to feeling like i needed to buy gold to "catch up" and keep up. well idk how this will be taken but idk, my parses in wow have always been in the upper 80's and mid 90's but fuck dude i dont think SOD is about parsing lol. classic is supposed to be fun, i get the "being the best mentality" bc i have it. but what i went through when i played was ridiculous. even if i farmed the gold required to buy a boe that costs 5 -7k im wouldnt fucking do it lol. it makes no sense to buy something like that to gert what? 10 spellpower?? lol
I'm not a min/maxer but I also dont want to be spending 4 hours in a raid when I could be clearing it in half that time. This is another reason people gatekeep. I definitely understand frustrations considering I played a ret pally most of my WoW career and couldnt ever get invited to groups but I also understand not wanting to spend way more time in a raid when alot of us are grown ups with stuff to do IRL as well.
I love it when you encounter these parse-lords wanting to have an interview with you before inviting you then you just say fuck it whisper someone else, get invited, go clear gnomer, check the /who on the parselord when you finished and the guy is still in Gnomer. 🤣 Yeah he probably cleared the raid 10 mins faster than me but he also spent 40 min longer to get a group together so in the end you will be done before him anyway.
yes and how about spending minimum 1 hour forming the perfect group, while a random group with 2 wipes managed to finish it before
"SOD is dead to me. The leveling journey is boring, to be honest. I've leveled two characters to the 50s. I'm done with it. The end game? Oh man, these sweaty wannabes are so cringe with parse checking and having egos in an easy game. It takes forever just to join a group to do the content. I do not care to join a guild so I can stick to a consistent raid schedule. I'd rather do stuff in real life than make time for raiding. I just want to queue up and get in a group in a couple of minutes. I want a low entry barrier to get started and work my way up. In retail, I just climb at a steady pace with consistent rewards in mythic dungeons instead of getting PRE-BIS, TOP PARSE, COMP LOCKED just to do any challenging content, man. By the way, I am a sweaty gamer. I've played Tekken, League of Legends, and Starcraft 2 at a top 1-3% level. SOD for me is not a skill issue, it's a time issue just to do any challenging content when cringe lords gatekeep you, treating their raids like a NASA space mission. Why are we treating BFD and Gnomeregan like it's high-level mythic raiding or key pushing? The design elements of having raid lockouts instead of having loot lockouts like retail do greatly contribute to the gatekeeping. Yes, yes, wannabe sweats are going to yell at me to just make a group. I did before, and it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work when I just want to interact with the game, not getting competent people together. The SOD game design just isn't for me. I want more challenging mythic-like dungeon content. Hopefully, delves do that. Imagine some Mage Tower-style difficulty with 2-4 other people; that's my thing. I don't treat WoW like an esport; I just pivot to doing engaging combat. The reason why I love games like Monster Hunter and Grandblue Relink with RPG elements.
I also closed my game when we spent 40 mins to get a group together for SM library only to be wiping on trash mobs, I could have leveled up so much faster on AOE farming with my mage. Yea classic isn't for me.
Guys aren’t going to want to hear it, but gdkps would solve a lot of this gatekeeping, people would carry the crappy players/classes with their bis characters as long as they get some gold for it
It's not as bad as its made out to be. The majority of players don't really like the parse-min-maxing crowds. Plenty of raids going on that don't give a sh1t, mostly through guilds. Pugging is always going to have the potential to be toxic. Problems with GDKPS was it made people just rely on random pugs now with GDKPS gone you really need to find like minded people or guilds to have an enjoyable experience which people that have been stuck doing GDKPS for years and years don't understand.
class balance is terrible, 10 mans are awful and just make it more glaring. feel like devs arent even gamers with some of these takes too lol. shit i feel like theyre so out of touch with MMO players now, theyve even made a Battle Royale lmao. i dont even know anymore man
On pvp realms, yes. Ive since switched to pve and its fine
Season of discovery sucks because they don't actually care. They don't understand their own game. They don't want to understand their own game. They want to maximize their ability to monetize it. Season of Discovery was a bait and switch. They knew the Classic community wanted a genuine classic+. They pretended their intention was to deliver this. By now if you've been paying attention it is glaringly obvious that is not the case. They instead have injected retail into the classic world. They are actively ruining classic's core structure in SOD with horrible end game class design and boring uninspired content. They have no idea how to made progression feel rewarding anymore. They've basically ruined Season of Discovery the moment they announced that traditional 40 man raids were going to be reduced to 20 man. If that isn't the biggest retailification of Classic then I don't know what is. 40 man raid is arguably the keystone aspect of classic. Requiring that number is tedious yet builds the world that builds the guilds that build the community. You've deflated your entire world. The entirety of SOD has been a process of not requiring a guild for anything. This is the energy of retail. Classic fundamentally forces you into a guild because the content does not get pugged due to the size requirement. Are you starting to see what I'm trying to say? Who cares that it's tedious to get 40 together...THAT is the soul of classic. it's the reason it feels different than all of the other expansions. The required numbers builds the community. IT forces it. SOD you can pug everything easily. There is no rewarding sense of progression whatsoever. I get handed my BIS weapon from the HORRIBLE stv event each phase... the crafting epic has become stale and obligatory after only 2 phases.... they have no real ideas. They have no effort to reimbue the world with a sense of defined purpose. Turtle wow did did classic+ so much better so far. SOD is a joke that proves Blizzard get's outperformed by it's own fans when the rubber hits the road. No wonder they so desperately fight in court to prevent private servers . It's the ONLY thing they seem to actually devote effort to....protecting their financial ownership of the game they don't care about or understand at all.
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There are plenty of raid groups that aren't min maxing that hard with players that don't care much about who does the most dps. For them all it matters is can they clear the content and get some loot? So in a way Josh is right and Staysafe might be a bit too much in his Elite-bubble? Even myself, i raid with pvp spec most of the time because i don't care that much about how much dps i do in a raid. I just need a few items from the raid for pvp. That's all i care about. So naturally i don't join raid groups that care about parses or clearspeed.
The guy who started the discussion is obviously an idiot anyway :D
Yeah but that gnomer clear take 3-4 hour. I don't have time to waste on stupid such as people not knowing how to simply move when dbm tells them to. Most people in life don't want to be associated with lazy, or stupid people. Period. I don't min max or even try to go crazy on parses, but I make sure I put in effort and do a very good job. Now at 60, I'll start parsing more
@@romanteni Actually I am pretty sure most people that don't care that much don't waste that much time. You have to remember these parselords spend a lot of time forming their groups. They might clear faster but you are probably better off not joining as they will take quite some time to form the group. I love to whisper and be asked 1000 questions which immediately tells me whisp another group. Get invited, clear Gnome, Go back IF check /Who on the guy caring about parsing see he's still stuck in Gnomer for another 20-30 minutes. He might have cleared it 10 mins faster than I did but he also spent 40 mins longer to form the group.
I was considering playing sod for the first time but hearing about all the drama has changed my mind.
well if you HAVE to be top dps to feel good about yourself.. you ARE insecure.. like lol
Must suck to be a dev, having to listen to the constant crying from the community
Dear @staysafetv i liked your content during hardcore vanilla (before official) and i am in shock on how out of touch you are now.
According to you people that dont get invited are lazy who just want to get carried ?
you automatically assume these people dont have runes , good gear , knowledge etc ?
Really ?
10000% 12:44
Yes
LFG
i see you're on whitemane =D
I have 4 characters at max level and from all my experience, it's a pain to sit in a gnomer for 3 hrs like it's progression with ppl that haven't cleared it yet, or are just poor players. I get why people "gatekeep". Because they want to: 1. Actually kill the bosses, 2. Not waste their time carrying, 3. Not waste an absurd amount of time when they can just get other players closer to their level.
Sorry to say but it's not insecure, it's about respecting people's time. And if I really wanna get all 4 of my toons through the raid, I'd rather get it done in 4 hrs than 12.
Enjoy dead game😊
I mean they are games; most if not all of it is wasted time. These are probably players in a much different demographic that only have time or care about one toon; they're not dedicated to the game, they just want to have a good time and it might be hard to see in the thick of it but a good time for a lot of people can mean not getting through as fast as possible or full clear in one session. In a healthy game this is often the majority of the player base. It makes a good community having those with a willingness to bring along and carry some of these players; it likely means more to them than you at that point and maybe they pay it forward or stick around longer and contribute to a vibrant community. To each their own - and it can be hard to pull back and change perspective in this way when you're much more deeply invested in something - but there's a lot of good feeling/times to be had realizing you can make one or two people's days with simple acts or gift of some of your time. Good karma if you will
He's not wrong on the gatekeeping thing. People are hard gatekeeping and you check their logs and they are low blue parsing. That person's group isn't the problem after 10 "parse runs" and the best they can do is low blue. Most of these gamer dads do have delusions of grandeur, but you are also not wrong on the people doing zero to make themselves look good in order to get invited in the first place. His point about understanding that bad players do gatekeep because they themselves are trying to get carried is absolutely true, and someone complaining on the forums isn't going to understand that nuance.
"they dont want to play with 9 other people just like them, with no preparation and no effort because nothing will get done, they want to get carried by 9 other people who have all their stuff and put the effort in" - literally just described the Democrats jajaja
L take. Bro join a guild to speedrun/meta game. Pugs shouldnt be held to the same standard.
Might be a correlation with intolerant attitude and ability to cooperate in a guild atmosphere; that is there might be a reason this is prevalent in PUG culture
PEOPLE ARE SO STUPID we are level 40 some classes shine more at certain lvl caps remember level 25 hunters ruled the world it was just that level like now we have shamans and mages going crazy its just level 40 they have enough of their kit to be busted THERE IS NOT A BALANCE ISSURE WITH CLASSES its the level bracket makes some outshine others so yelling oh buff this fix this is BABY MODE
Keep on uploading fire uploads today
I have never seen someone be so wrong in my life lmao, you have no idea what the point of a MMORPG is it is not gear collecting at all for the majority of players. The people who think like you in this video are the minority by far. What they should do is add the dungeon followers from retail to work with raids in SoD, that way people like you can take only the unbalanced power classes to raid and the other 99% can use AI that do not require background checks, personal life history and 3rd party site logs to play the game.
based takes as always
lmao no, it's shitty raids mixed with shitty anti mele mechanics in an iteration of the game that shouldn't have either anti mele or anti caster.
People are just complaining "Oh I don't get invited into groups, I'm so sad". But guys... just do your own group, it's not that hard to invite people yourself and invite people that are being rejected like you and clear the raid... People are so assisted nowadays, it's really crazy. What do you need more ? That we feed you like a baby ?
SoD is trash twitch hype meme Vanilla only cope
Nope. Nobody gives a crap what the meters say as long as they get the loot. sure, there's an element of bragging rights over meters, but they have never mattered one goddamn bit as long as the bosses are falling. Never. Not since 2004 and not now. Thy are a good crutch for learning to do better so you can get to that point, but they are 100% irrelevant once you reach it. And you're deliberately misinterpreting. People are gatekeeping against people with 430+ ilvl just because they don't already have 6/6. You're arranging your argument to be convnenient for yourself by assuming it's only poorly geared bads who get gatekept. A certain percentage of the community gets there and then pulls up the ladder.
Really wish I could make a shaman on Crusader Strike but Horde is locked 🙄
Go outside nerd