Napoleon's Sex Life Uncovered
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- Опубликовано: 17 май 2024
- When you think about Napoleon, you might think of the battles of Austerlitz, Borodino, the retreat from Moscow and Waterloo, but Napoleon was so much more than just a conqueror and emperor, he was a lover and he had an extraordinary love life. In particular, historians have been obsessed over the centuries with Napoleon's tempestuous, passionate and deeply complicated relationship with his wife, Joséphine de Beauharnais.
That marriage and their traumatic divorce plays centre stage in the extraordinary new film 'Napoleon' (2023) directed by Ridley Scott, which features an image of this relationship that runs right the way through Napoleon's career.
To get to the bottom of this complicated relationship, Dan Snow seeks the help of historian Dr Kate Lister, using Napoleon's raunchy love letters to get a better understanding of the real history behind their love life and how well both Joaquin Phoenix and Vanessa Kirby depict this on screen.
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00:00 Introduction
01:24 Napoleon's Teenage Years
03:01 Napoleon's 'First Time'
04:25 Napoleon and Josephine's First Encounter
06:37 'Survivor Balls' and French Revolution
08:46 Josephine's Life Before Napoleon
10:15 Napoleon's Love Letters
15:51 Napoleon's Jealousy
17:38 Josephine's Affair
19:34 Infertility and Divorce
28:20 Josephine and Tsar Alexander I
30:01 Josephine's Death
32:49 Napoleon's Death
Dr. Kate Lister should have a regular show on the channel. At a minimum her Betwixt the Sheets podcast should be filmed and posted every week. Thanks!
Hear hear! Betwixt the Sheets is my new favourite podcast. She is so much fun
Love Dr Kate Lister and and Medieval Historian Eleanor Janega when they’re together ! They’re absolutely brilliant 🤩
She is great!
Love her! Betwixt is my favorite!
@@hollycourtney221 It is one of my absolute favorite podcasts. You should also check out ‘After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds, and the Paranormal’ which is also from History Hit. Highly recommend it!
“…we are so poorly placed to judge these people in the past” Good to remember…
"He wouldv'e been a nightmare on WhatsApp..." Laughing so hard I'm crying!!!
It’s quite weird that someone found such private letters from two people and decided to make it a public thing. Imagine someone in the future disseminating your raunchy texts messages 😂
well i guess that means in the future your as famous as Napoleon
People who shape history and disregard the rights of others, and create laws skewed for one gender over the other should have a focus light on their interactions with the gender they skewed laws against 😋
I dont find it weird at all. We are curious about peoples private lives (especially historically significant people) and dead people don't care. If anyone wants to go through my shit after im dead have at it.
I keep thinking about how archeologists will examine the stomach contents of a body to determine what their last meal was. Reading letters doesn’t seem that strange now. 😂
Napoleon was ruthless and killed many people. So we dont care lol
So glad Dr. Lister thinks Josephine loved Napoleon. I have always thought so but there are other opinions on the matter. Dan Snow was so right in saying we should NOT judge the past by today's norms/standards. 100% agree. Brilliant presentation! Warm wishes from Northern California :)
I've read in some biography that he was chasing her until he found out about her affair, then they switched places. She only managed to change his mind about the divorce by using her kids as a weapon. I'm pretty sure she married him for practical reasons ("old" age of 32 with kids), but later grew to appreciate his devotion.
@@marelicainavokado Loved your comments!!! I am POSITIVE that Josephine later grew to appreciate his devotion. I had a visit at Malmaison some years back and came out of the experience with warms tears. So touching. Yes, Josephine spent money like mad but she had good taste, humor, charisma, etc. and I truly believe she loved both Napoleon as well as her children and roses. People today who say there was no love are crazy in my opinion. Napoleon treated her children with such care which was a rarity at the time. I really believe in time the love became most deeply mutual. This is no Harry/Meghan Markle story. Best wishes to you!!! :) ❤
Napoleon adored her at the beginning, she adored him at the end. Very similar to my relationships:-).
People can say what they want about Napoleon and his love letters, but imagine if the stuff you had written (and probably completely forgot about) was read hundreds of years later, you'd sound crazy or whatever word as well
"We are poorly placed to judge [people of that time]". Well said, Dan Snow. Thank you both, for shining a light on the psychological aspects of the circumstances of these peoples lives. We frequently fail to realize the privilege we currently enjoy in the 1st world. We take for granted living in (relative) political stability, public education on myriad subjects, public discourse, a (relatively) free press, public health ... Thanks for viewing these historical figures with a sympathetic eye to the context of their times and their own personal experiences. Excellent discussion!
It is also good to read your empathetic comment here on YT, where sofa ninjas and moralistic marauders oft abide.
Yet I confess that I judge a lot. For example, I get pissed off at Mary Queen of Scots for myriad behaviors, forgetting that her bizarre childhood held little in the way of Mensch lessons.
Here's to perspective. And Lysistrata becoming true.
Dan Snow is talking rubbish. Of course we can look at people in the past. A good historian does just that. Understand the context, what did people say they were fighting for, did they follow through. Were contemporaries praising or insulting a leader?
I would just ask out of curiosity, if one cannot judge people of that time, even from written sources from the time, how on earth can anyone possibly delve into an individuals psychology also from that time?
But never mind that, let's forget the turmoil that was the French Revolution and all the wars that followed which, fundamentally changed the politics and societies of Europe and beyond. No, the man's sex life was far more important, ha ha.
Perhaps have a listen to contemporary historians and their take on Scott's portrayal of Napoleon. You will find a big thumbs down.
It's a point I make when people Judge the passed by modern standards. They weren't us and the world was different and although little agree that is an acceptable excuse for some terrible things historical figures did.
@@skadiwarrior2053there is a difference between looking closely and judging them against our Modern moral/ethical standards.
Because someone 300 years ago did something that's unacceptable today shouldn't make them any less historically significant.
@@skadiwarrior2053 the French Revolution and what Napoleon did after was the start of modern Western society as we know it I.m.o.
The debt cause by helping the US kick the British out near enough crippled the French state leading to the revolution in the first place.
Napoleon restarted the French Slave trade purely for the economics.
He created a constitutional monarch and then made himself emperor...
All these a thing you can find out about him but I don't judge him outside of the occasional wince while reading about it.
I would totally buy and read a full-length book on Napoleon and Josephine by Kate. By far she is the most confident, knowledgeable competent, sympathetic, funny, relatable historian to talk about this couple in a way that captures the time period and this relationship. I 110% believe that Napoleon and Josephine loved each other till the end despite all obstacles. ❤
I listened to the full episode on Spotify and was happy to hear Kate’s doubt about Napoleon’s supposed great love for Marie Walewska because I agree. I’m not saying he didn’t like her as a person or thought she was beautiful, but to me the only woman he loved was Josephine. In terms of his love life, she was his one constant and, even though I’m sure he cared about other women, no one could hold a candle to his “sweet and incomparable”. Where Kate seems to have such a non-judge mental approach to his affairs, I’d love more of her analysis on them.
Kempen (which is close to "kepen") is a dutch/Belgian word which means "to go to war, to enter into conflict", and kepen in itself seems to etymologically come from the Middle English meaning to observe, heed, seek, seize, and/or keep. Either way, Baron de Kepen might symbolise a place of hot and heavy battle, or perhaps the one place Napoleon truly felt seized or kept. ;)
I’m a medievalist (English middle ages) so I’m all for a possible Middle English word (“kepen” but why the Middle English word would be relevant here I don’t know…is it Anglo-Saxon or Latinate, in which case the tie to French tie might be more significant?). I think your suggestion of the idea of a sort of cute military name - for N’s fave area of Empress Josephine’s body -possibly with the idea of a medieval “keep” and siege tactics as well - that seems very likely to me!
But why Baron, the masculine, for vagina which is feminine... shouldnt it be Baroness?
@@frenchartantiquesparis424 barone is baroness in French
I don't know if it's relevant but there was an Austrian General called Baron (Freiherr) Wilhelm Von Kerpen who was serving in Italy at the time.
to Keep is Old English, ''cypan'' (Anglian: hard c/kaepan) branched from 'ceapan'' to trade/buy/possess, Kempen is related to OE: Cempa (Warrior/champion) and that ultimately derives from Latin: Campus (Field).@@AleisterCrowleyMagus
Dr. Kate is my fave! Her and Dan together are tons of fun on this subject. ❤🔥
…”I now give you a new name.” Also, “coming out of prison, she is alive.” I could listen to these two all day.
“Have a go on this you lucky lucky girl”…lmfao…Lister imagining Napoleon’s obnoxious teenage incel preaching to a very patient French courtesan…Lister is so awesome. Her podcast is fantastic - as a medievalist I love listening to historian Eleanor Janega and Dr. Lister on their FANTASTIC podcast…they really need their own show on RUclips…
The most disappointing part in history is that we try to explain and understand emotions hundreds of years old, yet we don’t understand the times or the challenges of the times❤
History and psychology are two different disciplines. So are current affairs.
Sure we understand the times, or at least those of us who’ve had the patience to read the original materials do. Sadly that’s not many people when you add it up.
Ironically, Napoleon was above average height. Yet people made him small, when actually he was 5'7" the average man's height then was 5'5"-5'6"
I assume you know, but that was British propaganda to belittle him.
France also used inches and feet to measure height, but different ones. He measured 5'2 in French measurements, which was 5'7 in English. But of course as his enemy, the English were happy to not "translate" it to their measurements, but act like he was just a little man.
His bodyguards, the Grenadiers-à-Cheval also had the average height of 175 cm, about 6-7 cm taller than Napoleon. So he also usually seemed small compared to them, even if he wasn't compared to the population at the time.
He was average height for the time.
He was short for an aristocrat, that was all.
@@marelicainavokadonot really, one of the generals that defeated him was 5'4
I picture him like my ex- Italian husband. Shorter but buffed with a larger appearance.
Thank you for a fascinating video. I have often wondered if Napoleon may have been on the Autism Spectrum. His extreme social awkwardness coupled with a genius for (compartmentalized) data suggests that he may have had elements of Asperger's' syndrome. As for Josephine's barrenness -- many women who underwent the extreme, continued stress off the French Terror were later incapable of bearing children. Marie Antoinette's daughter, Marie Therese, was another survivor of the Terror who was infertile.
The "Autism spectrum" is modern nonsense.
It's not a thing.
I thought the same thing when I watched tasting history with Max Miller's episode about Napoleon tonight. He had odd fastidious food habits as well. And I got the general sense from that video also that he was awkward as a person. ruclips.net/video/O1flfls4N78/видео.htmlsi=y_78OMe1fBSCvM8a
Also the term Asperger's is outdated because Dr asperger aided the Nazis
Yes! As someone diagnosed with ASD and ADHD, I would not be surprised if he had one or both. As in first hand accounts of him and through his letters, he comes off as very neurodivergent even in the context of the era. What got me was the fact that he would eat quickly and just leave an important banquet despite a very important conversation needing to be had with one of the guests. That to me screamed ADHD behavior, though his tendency to favor simple foods like chicken and his obsessive writing to his wife, then not understanding or ignoring social ques like going to show his ex-wife the baby he divorced her to get, leans more ASD as well. We will never know but it is interesting to think about.
Sexual promisicuity, Chlamydia & Gonnorhea have more to do with female infertility than stress & malnutrition.
My parents wrote almost every day to each other during ww2. I have them all.
My father not only was very sensitive about days when there were no letters but he said all of the troops morale and psychological strength depended on getting letters from home regularly . He described one friend’s suicide after receiving a dear John letter.
Havent seen the movie yet but does it even mention Haiti and the toll its revolution took ( was designed to take) on his financial and political powers? He built a palace there for Josephine but the cement blocks were mixed with seawater and crumbled very quickly. Ruins are still there.
Lister is a Treasure and should have her own show. I loved this episode please mak more
Cheers From California 😊
Her fabulous podcast is Betwixt the Sheets
Josephine was born in the Caribbean (St. Lucia or Martinique , it's disputed. But she grew up in Martinique). In one of the French colonized islands, she moves to France because of her marriage (arranged by a paternal aunt) to an aristocrat. The first husband was a revolution sympathizer at first, though he was still guillotined. After surviving the Revolution, she probably doesn't have family support in France, besides the in laws, who if they survived probably weren't in a position to help much.
That was a good bit of fun. An intimate romp around the bedroom with Napoleon and Josephine. It really is wonderful to have these private letters that provide us with a glimpse into their love, lives and human side of their relationship. Great conversation Dan and Dr. Kate. 🇨🇦🇬🇧-❤️HH
Didnt they cheat on eachotherd
@@user-sg4ov7ng4hthat was indeed covered in this video.
@@user-sg4ov7ng4h yes they did. They stated it wasn’t uncommon for that time.
@@user-sg4ov7ng4hafter napoleon got really powerful, she cleaned up, and stopped seeing other men
She resourced gun powder for Napoleon armies , as well as managing his grand houses and estates, she ran all the fabric for uniforms for his militia, she personally made his great grey coat with the silver ❤ buttons that he rode his favourite horse in Battle for three days and nights , she choose all the fabrics for his many apartments in Venice and Paris and Fountain Bleu .
Damn Napoleon moving like Drizzy in these streets all in his feels
Huh?
Omg 🥰🥰🥰 those letters set a heart on fire 💝 it's so heartbreaking , she could not return his love... And when she finally did , it was too late ...
They are really pretty ravishing
loved this! more of Dr. Kate Lister please!
Endlessly misunderstood and vilified, but eternally fascinating Napoleon🖤🌸
Only me got hot under the collar when Dan read that second love letter? Humm? I think he rushed trough because even he found it... stimulating!😊
No, I got hot under the collar too. When he mentioned her forest, I got so feverish and so excited
I think he rushed because he felt awkward
Finally a movie that I want to actually watch!! I’m watching this interview and then watching the movie. Thank you.
I'm always so stoked to hear Kate Lister!
In those days women were not able to have any voice or standing in this world. She needed to survive and protect her children and security. Geez! Women were at the mercy of men. She was shrewd and she needed to be.
That’s garbage. Women were not much worse off than today. Sure most of them didn’t get to do much in public life, but that’s because they often had seven kids and a house to look after. Rich women who could afford servants had plenty to say and played a very large influence on society.
@@sirrathersplendid4825Amost never in history did it occur that there was a woman in charge. And if it was, people would try their best to change that all the time. I guess you are a man who can’t even imagine to have non elf the damn privileges you got right now, but women were worth nothing in most of history and that can’t be denied!
I always remember my history teachers in the late ‘60s telling us of Napoleon writing to Josephine telling her not to wash.
Me too. In the 80’s
Kissing her little black Forrest? Lol it sounds like the little Frenchman enjoyed making his woman happy. Little black Forrest lol. Thanks for sharing.
I think insecurity isn't always a bad thing. Insecurity allows a person to think further, and by thinking more about a topic, one can come up with a better solution or decision.
Unfortunately not everybody has the capacity to do the mental work it needs to get over.
Absolutely loved this 🥰
This is fascinating. I am not sure I can sit through the film but it's great to learn about it. I was amazed to see the huge painting of their court at Versailles
It’s apparently a terribly disjointed film. They spent a lot of time getting the ‘look’ correct but forgot about creating an interesting story.
Great video ... thanks for posting.
A very interesting talk about Napoleon and his love Josephine. Thank you for posting.
Brilliant stuff! Love these two
Loved this video. It explain a lot and gave me more insight into this Romeo and Juliet love affair. I saw the current Napoleon movie with J. Phoenix and your discussion filled in some questions I had that left me wondering about it. Thank you for filling in those gaps🌹
Director: Why is Dr. Lister hidden behind stacks of books? Odd thing to notice, I know. Odd.
Yeh, I noticed that too. Very distracting.
Not everyday you hear Dan Snow talking about cunnilingus
Dr Lister is great ... also "Napoleon, lucky duck!" 😂
11:24 " He would have been a nightmare on whatsapp " 😅
Brill insight! Thank you.
Check out the French drama series Napoleon, made in 2000, if you want a captivating, historically sound, and brilliantly written, acted, directed, and produced take on Napoleon and his era. The cast is headed by Christian Clavier, Isabella Rossellini, Depardieu père et fils. After the horrors of the Revolution and Robespierre, sex, food and drink, and frivolity were necessary tonics for aristocrats who escaped the guillotine. Napoleon and Josephine are historical one-offs. (Josephine’s dentures were made of wood.)
So were George Washington’s. Must have been how they did it at that time period
The plant made me think Dan was Sideshow Bob for a moment 🤣🤣
Same lol
Excellent episode - cheers!
This video reinforces my belief that this movie is severely underrated and gets a lot of undeserved hate. A lot of people miss the point of the film. They unfairly compare it to other movies and wanted it to be something it was never intended to be. Seeing this side of Napoleon makes him that much more interesting.
Fantastic. Thank you! 👏🏻
I like historians like this that make history fun.
Kate Lister, YOUR NECKLACE IS EVERYTHING XD
Great video, so interesting 😊
Josephine was just a diminutive form of her middle name. It's a very common thing in romance languages.
This was an AWESOME EPISODE
I absolutely enjoy listening to Dr. Lister's podcast and her impressive expertise.
Loved this
I discovered a new found adoration for Napoleon and Josephine . Those two are definitely some of my favorite historical figures. Thank you for this fabulous historical chat! ❤
"she had a tough revolution"
....I dont know. I think others had it tougher!
Brilliant listening to the chat between these two great historians.
Fascinating video - I never wanted it to end! Josephine was the original "It Girl" I greatly enjoyed learning so much about her.
Been a Napoleonic history fan since a teen. No real new info. here but enjoyed this. Recommend the book "Napoleon and Josephine; The Biography of a Marraige" as the finest chronicle of the two.
Yes! Thanks for bringing information; from, not just the political halls and battlegrounds but from his intimate biographies.🧑🎨👨🎓♾️🗝️❤️⭐️
"I'm not saying that's why he lost the battle of Waterloo" 😂
This is a great conversation! As far as the movie's depiction of Napoleon as a lover, of course that's something we can never truly know so anyone's take is valid. His letters do imply to me that he was a more generous lover than the movie may depict him to be. But I think what Kate said is true that many men may hype up their own sexual prowess only to be incredibly underwhelming. Napoleon was also quoted years into his marriage saying something along the lines of "the whole act of sex is done within a minute" which of course indicates that he was not a generous lover at all.
Josephine we may also presume had some higher standards in the bedroom given her vast sexual experience. Even if Napoleon was giving it his best shot, that may not have been much for her. By the time they were married, I believe he had only had sex with one other woman, so not the most experienced. The fact that she had an affair so quickly after their marriage also indicates he may have been a bedroom disappointment. Anyway, of course we can only speculate. I'd say there's evidence for both sides here, and I understand why the movie might be taking the side that he was a poor lover.
This is so interesting. Thank you!
This was extremely informative and in such a entertaining lesson 🎉 the more you know ❤❤
I have so much more respect for Napoleon after listening to this, I can feel like I can relate to a lot of what he says when it comes to his sex life, except for the part where he's a super famous historical figure. 😅
Idk what it says, in the beginning she thinks Napoleon is very weird, yet I can relate to Napoleon and the thoughts behind his diary completely there 😅.
Wait until she hears James Joyce’s letters 😂😂😂
Or Warren G. Harding's 😂😂
She wrote about Joyce's letters in her book
Omg i just read them
In a not too distant future, a historian might read your sexts to the masses as well!
I don't know.. I think it'd be worse if they read my poetry.
After I'm dead, I don't think I'll care!
This would only mean I would have changed history.
a "capon" is a castrated rooster, so perhaps "Baron de Capon" is some related play on words, like "Baron of Cock", or something.
oh darn! i thought Dan was going to read the letter's to Mrs. Snow! lol. But, it's "only Kate Lister!"
Loved the discussion! But I need to know about the shirt Dan is wearing!
Excellent video🎉
Amazingly explained
Watched the movie two days ago (it
took a while to reach our shores).
It's very well made, but the best por-
trayal was that of Chistian Clavier
& Isabella Rossellini
I want that book of their love letters from which you read. What is the title?
Dr Lister is ace, bring her back on again!
This was wonderful
This video is way more informative, interesting, and worth my time than the movie was.
Wow
Love the chairs
In the end Napoleons young wife deserted him......and by this time Josephine was dead. Napoleon was devastated by her death.
Like she had a choice. Look what happened to her relative.
Didn't exactly have an choice
Napoleon's letters are beautiful and so French. I agree he seems to be a generous lover. One question, do we have Josephine's letters anywhere? I would love to read them.
Unfortunately,they have been lost for some reason.Only a few are still known.You may read about that in a famous book of the nineteen-sixties,by Frances MOSSIKER : Napoleon and
Josephine. You could probably find it in a library or on the Internet.
LOL!! hearing dan snow read the words about wanting to kiss the woman in her black forrest is hilarious.
Yep seeing the circumstances i don't really "dispise" the cheating, it happend a lot
What film is this ?
Awww man! You 2 have already seen the movie?!
So jealous. It doesn't hit cinemas here for another 2 days.
Loved the video, it's interesting to hear how historical figures used to live outside of the stories most of us have heard
Great movies
You haven’t missed much. It’s pretty but that’s about the only good thing you can say about it. 😊
When I watched Max Miller's Napoleon episode tonight he mentioned some of his more fastidious behaviors involving food...and now some of his love life and insecurities and habits sexual and otherwise, and his overall awkwardness relayed here... I feel like he was on the spectrum. And I googled it and I am not alone in that thought. We can't retroactively diagnose someone but I recognize my people when I see them.
LOL!
Yes I am afraid so
Absolutely agree. He's basically textbook.
I reckon Dr Lister is a rather specific but more relevant social Historian than "sex historian" does her justice.
Napoleon conquered Europe and Josephine conquered Napoleon 😂😂😂 quite funny
They’re the exact depiction of a toxic relationship
Wonder why such an aged actor was cast to play Napoleon but Josephine was played by such a young woman 😮😮
Yes! I find the casting very odd as well. It is very off putting. Glad to know I’m not the only one.
Phoenix in not 'aged', he is 48. Napoleon is very unusual in having finished his illustrious career at the age of 45 - only Alexander the Great achieved as much at a young age.
@@tancreddehauteville764 Napoleon was only 24 when he became a general. He was 26 when he met and married, a 32 years old Josephine. He was 29 when he invaded Egypt and 35 when he became Emperor. He was 45 years old at the time of Waterloo and was dead by 51. Unless the film is about his last few years of life he is way too old to play Napoleon.
Vanessa Kirby is 35 which is in the right age group for Josephine at least in the early years of their relationship.
They could put Thimothee Chalamait to play Napoleon, he is younger and speaks french
@@Kannot2023- Certainly would’ve been a better choice for the early years, but TC lacks gravitas for post-1804.
Love Kate Lister! ♥
Napoleon had game. The real Napoleon Dynamite.
Frfr
I think they loved one another, but there was more to it than that. Josephine was from Martinique. Napoleon was from Corsica. I think these two outsiders must have felt like they had something in common from the start.
He wrote such letters to her when he was 27-29, and actually needed her social liaisons and support. The majority of his letters to her are pretty reserved. Don't overexaggerate
I thought that Napoleon brought his baby to meet Josephine because it was so important to him and he was still connected to her, wanting to share his joys and triumphs with Josephine.
The movie seems to have gotten Napoleon wrong in just about every aspect. Charisma, military genius and as a lover... quite sad...
this is so entertaining to watch :)
Very interesting
I had absolutely no interest in this subject and you got me to watch 30min with how well you discussed it. I never imagined I would feel sad for Napoleon but here we are 😂.
The Many Lives And Secret Sorrows of Josephine B by Sandra Gulland. It’s written like Josephine’s journal. I highly recommend it
Whats this book?