They’re STEALING From You! Is RECASTING the Answer?
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- In this spicy video Jay talks about what he thinks about recasting and his experience with the Lego community recasting Brickarms. Is it your right to do so, or are YOU actually stealing from them??? We have new videos every Monday, Wednesday and Friday! We're streaming Monday-Saturday starting at 9PM CST!! JOIN USSSS! Thanks for watching!
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#warhammer40k #howto #gamesworkshop
Yeah sorry, if a company is able to give the same product for a 1/50 of the price, yeah im going there
In Australia, even recasts are expensive. There is literally no way of collecting 40k for a decent price. Feels bad man.
Dude, you already have living tyranids everywhere. Giant f*cking spider, snake-eating wasps... Don't push it.
In brazil not only is expensive, we also have very few options.
Them Australia 🇦🇺Warhammer Brother's Deserve a Holliday Thats Acknowledged around the 🌎
As an Australian, I started recasting only six months into the hobby, and have been doing it for two now... I just wanna have fun with some bloomin’ kitbashes, you extortionate bastards, stop making me sell my internal organs, I’ve run out of expendable ones, and the police start asking awkward questions when you sell more than two kidneys.
Troll trader
"If everyone bought recasts, Games Workshop wouldn't be able to stay afloat."
If everyone bought recasts, Games Workshop would have to decrease their prices and I would start buying from them. They charge multiple weeks of good food for their larger models, and those exploitative profits don't go to the people who are actually making the IP. This guy actually trying to argue GW is the victim here lmao
GW can't do shit about someone making recasts for their own personal use. Keep in mind that GW is incredibly abusive to their retail employees.(I was one) They have tuned their entire paradigm to drive sales without regard for the community. They literally have a formula outlined in the training material to get customers to buy more shit whether the customer needs it or not. They bait and switch in their hiring policies too. They make a big deal out of promoting from within and getting store employees into the management program. In 8 months and among five stores I saw managers hired from outside the company, no one from within. One guy didn't even know the product, I know because I had to teach him to play and paint. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you are taking care of the retail clerk buy giving GW your money. They routinely hire a bunch of people then lay everyone until stores are manned by a skeleton crew. No retail store that I know of pays a living wage and never has. It's all a crock of shit. There are so many better skirmish and wargames out there, made by companies and creators who are way less shady. Trust me, they really don't give a rats ass about anything other than their bottom line. They mark up models roughly 300% from production costs. When they did the LotR battle game they specifically made it a different scale from anything else on the market so it was useless for kitbashing or in other games. They require their third party resellers to buy into a massively expensive package of product and those sellers in turn have to mark up the product even more (generally at least 30%) to keep from taking a huge loss.
Fun fact about LotR, it also made more money than 40k and Fantasy combined and basically kept the company afloat, was also one of the most profitable forms of LotR merch for New Line according to Priestly. Don't often see people playing it, but I guess a lot of people collected it just for the models.
@@KironVB I would never have guessed! Of course LotR is a popular brand / franchise, but the talk always was that GW specifically bought the license, so that no one could compete with them on the fantasy miniature market, I just didn't know that it was that popular and worked out that well.
The different scale pissed me off royally! I bought a box of dwarfs with the cool two handed axes to supplement my dwarf whfb army, but they were so tiny of stature that they could have been gobbos. :
My store has one employee, he’s currently trying to hire and I heard him talking to an applicant while waiting in line and he said “I’m trying to get you in, ideally it would have been last week. Trust me, I want a day off” it was funny but sad at the same time… I don’t know how they are allowed to have a store ran by one person, especially in a big area. I could see it being ok in a small village but a city is taking the piss.
Not that i doubt most of what you said but in my experience the gw products ive bought from resellers has been normal price at least but usually reduced
@@CAMSLAYER13 yeah, he's saying that, for example. A bix of tac marines costs GW $10 to produce, they then sell it for $100, and sell it to retailers for $75. The retailers only option us to sell it at a discount compared to gw (otherwise why would anyone buy it from them) leaving the retailer with only around 10%profit, while in either case gw has made a minimum of 700% hahahaha of course those numbers are for illustrative purposes and not correct.
As a former employee I can whole heartedly agree with OP, GW and anyone making any real decisions within the company don't care about anything....ANYTHING, except their profit margins. Changing all the names of their armies to be able to copyright them - eldar to aeldari, hell changing the names of the paints, keeping the paints in containers specifically designed to dry out or tip over, selling a pad of paper as "pallette" even though it's literally the worst thing you can make a pallette from. At the heart of Games Workshop is a passion, for sure. A passion to make as much money as possible no matter what.
The best part of GW was the Specialist Games department. That's where designers were allowed to play and create their weirdest work, and it was amazing for the hobby. Not everything was a winner but every specialist game was someone's favourite game. Because they didn't have the mass appeal of 40k or wfb or lotr, it wasn't making the money, it was making enough to produce the minis, but that wasn't enough for gw so they axed it. Only when they saw how many 3rd party companies were making money from designing and selling their own "Fantasy Football" teams did they think to bring it back.
OK rant over hahahaha, I honestly didn't know that was in me gahahaha
Small bits are fine I think. For example if GW dosent want to put 5 pairs of lightning claws in a box of chaos terminators they can't complain that people go elsewhere rather than buy more boxes of models.
This too. Or when they put 2 obliterators in a box and the rules say they need squads of 3.....
@@joeyn985 reaper chaincannons, only one in a havoc's box.
Not to mention Upgrade sprues for unsupported models
There used to be so many bits sellers for this reason but a lot got out of it due to being sued and price hikes.
This is probably why GW is taking the "no kit no rules" approach
Anyone sympathetic to GW just doesn't understand how injection moulding works and very likely doesn't care how much their sculptors, designers, etc are paid or credited. It's awfully dystopic, like full on "shill". I love GWs sculpts but at the end of the day you're just paying for convenience; they're plastic, quality issues have a complain pipeline, etc. GW are the number one miniatures company and there's very little earned or loss from any one persons interaction with them. They're not your friend and countless OOP models or inflated prices state as much.
If you care about the hobby, if you care about the artistry of sculpting and so on, you really shouldn't be riding GWs line. They're definitely the "evil corp" side of things and it's probably better if you just bought recasts and spent your spare money on other miniature company's products.
It would be good if there was another big boy or two on the block to give GW some real competition.
I want to agree with you, but the market is probably preventing it. It's too convienent having a couple games that everyone knows they can find other players for on the weekend.
Getting slightly exploited by one company is the price that gets paid to not spread the community too thin.
@@cleanrag631 I partially agree with you, but I think it's important to note that board games have seen insane growth year after year for a while now so the community is increasing. As you said, I don't think we need another warhammer clone, Instead I'd like to see a completely different take on the miniature hobby and I'd like to see it expanded beyond the tabletop. I'm actually working on something along this vein, but due to several factors (including the insane amount of work put in to pull this off) I'm not comfortable announcing it just yet. Keep your eyes out sometime in the next year for a unique twist on miniatures :)
for anyone that'd like to stay up to date on this project or receive some of the first snippets of info consider following me on IG (Deviant_spark) so that you're the first to know! - I'm not currently selling anything but if I can build up enough support I know I can make this thing a reality.
@@deviantspark2570 Its the World of Warcraft problem, due to WoW's immense popularity no new-WoW can exist as it can never break the critical point for it to get near that big due to at least one friend refusing to switch or have both so everyone keeps both and eventually the new one peters out because, people want to play with their friends
Fantasy Flight Games who do Legion, X-wing and Armarda are owned by Asmodee and they are about 2x the size of GW
The issue is that someone needs to break the "the only thing anyone nearby plays is 40k" problem, and that's a big problem to break.
Parabellum Wargames does not seem too big yet, but their Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings seems pretty solid as far as a new fantasy rank and flank type game
I buy recasts and I'm ok with it. I still remember their finecast repair kit, charging customers to fix their own lack of quality control. I buy legit models, but when I find a recast I like, I buy.
The one thing I'd like to see GW do is credit their artists. Its such a shame to not know who's drawing all this fantastic art we're getting.
2 words: Discontinued models.
If the company don't want to sell me the model I want anymore, recasters it is.
This is soo true. I legit went around to a few local shops trying to get the colonel...and all ran out...
@@andyly6651 I was lucky to find one recently. He was lost in a local toy store (not even GW...) ... I'm almost sorry to say I sold it for a hefty benefit (to buy more plastic crack tbh...)
This was also a point I wanted to hear. Gw hasn't made the style of Armored Skeletons I like since 2003.
Dont forget about those upgrade kits that wont get you a full unit. Looking at you noise marines!
Most valid excuse for buying GW recasts: "I live in Australia."
True brother, I made a little post on this around here. good to hear that you are fighting the good fight.
Too bloody right.
Yep. Ive written a complete mathematical analysis of the “F*** You Kangaroo Tax”. Just always been to nervous to actually post/publish it,
@@jackhenwood257 Your aren't the only one who holds this sentiment. People need to know.
Or Eastern Europe where one kit of marines would cost you 10% of your monthly wages.
GW: "Do not recast our imagery, fiction or miniatures. Reproduction for personal use is not an automatic exemption..."
Also GW: Which Imperial Guard regiment are we gonna axe today?
That is the only recast I condone.
@@Nemoknowsnothing you are a better person than me. I would buy the shit out if karskin recast. That is one miniature that I know will never come back, and it pisses me off. Scions are cool, but they are not karskins.
Also it's probably entirely unenforceable and legally toothless for them to claim you can't recast a model you purchased for personal use.
Also they claim copyright over even copying bits and pieces of their stuff. There's a million third parties making copies of lasguns, bolters, etc. But they can't do anything.
@@archimedesd5794 it's just gross. To shamelessly steal from so many other sources, but then lock down your IP so tight and be dicks about it
Blizzard: Stand back boys, I got this.
Reads copyright...
So anyway, I started casting...
Was this before or after $50 smaller codexes sold in pairs for marines?
Hahahha man love the saltyness :D
@@InstabilerStoff sad and lonely
@@HorusHerotic Or just angry
If you want posterboy rules, you get posterboy prices.
I remember when it wad £25 for a codex, £30 for a rulebook and you could buy those, plus a starter set with two armies and terrain for less than £300.
Learning how to recast just bodies, legs and heads effectively has doubled every infantry box I've ever bought. I fully recommend it, it puts your spare bits to good use!
Right now I am painting five recasted Kasrkins(which are out of production) on 25mm Sector Imperialis bases. Using five Citadel painting handles, Citadel Water pot, Citadel paints and Roubloff brush(just because Citadel brushes are worse and more expensive). Fill no regret. If model is available in plastic I will buy it in plastic.
I feel that OOP is fair game. They don't provide the service anymore and it doesn't effect the profits at all. OOP miniatures has kinda gone crazy on ebay recently. Like insane prices for things that were half the price a few months ago.
@@Broadside72 GW try to get around that with their shitty limited time offers and "made to order". They justify it because they bring the OOP models back once every 2 years to sell them for way more than they are worth.
@@porcu12345 And to protect the copyright. Some countries consider old, unsupported products as legally reproducible since you aren't taking profits from the company.
Kinda the same logic you see in many of the comments here.
Well youre in luck! You can now in 2023 buy a Kasrkin off the sh... oh wait its sold out. You can now in 2023 buy a Kasrkin on GW's web... oh wait its sold out there too. You can now pay an exorbitant price on ebay for a kit thats sold out everywhere! So, just another day at the GW office.
If everyone bought recasts there would be no GW... and if gw didnt price their product so high there wouldnt be recasts... whats the point here. Recasts are a direct response to a market pressure, that gw seems intent on keeping ramped to the max. If gw had a line of more affordable minis but with a bit less detail or something, like an anti forgeworld.. it might just all go away.
Buying recasted discontinued models is totally fine, GW didn't want the profits for those models anymore.
i do agree. though this affects the collectors market for old rare models that survived over 30 years. would be great if GW sold there old moulds to say one company that can then sell from them. i would love to see those old school metal goblins and orcs trolls and some them classic dragons etc. from back in the 80s.
Anything’s justifiable when we bend our morals
Completely agree.
@@MrRaashby What morals are being bent, exactly?
Genuine asking. I don't actually own any recasts myself, and my personal thoughts on the practice are...complicated.
I agree with the first half of this sentiment. but the second half is false. if they could make proffit selling the same old shit forever they would. its just not feasable to keep every figure they ever made available to purchase.
i am not sure if you want my opinion or not.
Since i joined GW was getting more and more greedy, i remember white dwarfs talking about the hobby, how to make your own terrain etc. and in a few years time it went from that to, buy this now buy this now. my local GW didn't allow home made scenery on the game boards anymore.
I used to visit my local GW every week, and just hang around, paint a little and get inspired. this gradually changed from being a fun experience like talking with the clerk, getting tips, getting models suggested, participating in fun events, to hello what do you want to buy, oh just painting okay. where there first was a big pile of store paints i could use to see if a colour scheme would work. it just dissapeared, if i wanted to try i should just buy it. no borrowing stuff or using stuff anymore. maybe the clerk change did this but i think it's also is just the way GW handles things nowadays.
like most people i didn't really like the fact they killed of fantasy and made age of sigmar i was once asked to leave the store for stating that i didn't really like age of sigmar and i was more of an oldschool fantasy guy.
not to speak of the store time coupons you could use by spending money. one time i was just i the neighbourhood and just bought warhammer quest silver tower. (not at the local GW but from another store that sells GW products) anyway i thought i would go there and go paint seeing as i now had a age of sigmar product. well they introduced coupons and i could not paint there anymore. i was told thwey also didn't like it that i did not buy the warhammer quest there and would not be allowed to paint it there anyway. well i thought. i spend like 200 euro on end times books and models, surely i would have spend enough to paint a little right. no that didn't count. so i left not being able to enjoy this hobby at that place anymore.
so yeah I guess GW screwed me and a lot of others over like this.
so yeah i kinda understand people if they buy from recasters. i only once bought something from a recaster. and that was because i had been saving up for a thing from forgeworld and when i had the money the item suddenly was gone from the site.
Even though GW was/is making it really hard for me to like them i would not buy recasts for models that are still for sale. i will however buy through local game shops instead of their own store anymore.
I feel ya man. I only bought Blackstone Fortress because the Kill Team Anual gave me stats for them. Then they gave the Traitor Command (one of thier coolest kits in years imho) the ax, then the Ambull.
Wait WHAT
Why the hell is homemade terrain banned
That stuff can be so friggin cool and take so much creativity and passion when done well
I can get telling people to build terrain that complies to reasonable dimensions and designs
But
Freakin’
*WHAT*
@@tomgeytenbeek2207 most homemade stuff is not bought in the store. If it's a kitbash or something then i'm sure it's fine.
I always buy on the website as I don’t have a GW store nearby. I
Once was in one in Berlin and tbh. I can’t imagine people painting there that was basically just like one of those lego stores
At my local GW store in the US, the guy that runs the store lets me and my friend paint in there all the time. I do get that GW is enforcing their products though, we can only paint with Citadel pots and brushes.
Regarding GW being a small company, TBF its in the FTSE 250 and is rapidly going to FTSE 100 status (IE top 100 companies in the UK). They are not really "small" when compared within the UK. My personal upset is with how they treated FW which is why I went 3rd party for my "krieg like" army, I am very glad I did so given how death korps are now effectively mainline guard with a slight twist and lost all the flavour.
Whether or not GW is a small or big company has no part in this argument. If they own the IP, they own the IP. Theft is theft, regardless of how wealthy the person or entity is that is stolen from.
@Bartleby O'quinn ok so you're a communist, so what, do you want a medallion or something?
@@SinglemSolis it's not theft though, and it's perverting the definition of theft to benefit large corporations.
IP isn't real property and shouldn't be.
@@SinglemSolis They don't own Aliens, Terminator, Starship Troopers, Lord of the Rings, Dune, or Foundations, no matter what their skeevy lawyers say.
@@SinglemSolis You know stealing from the rich doesn't automatically make someone a communist, just like supporting free speech doesn't automatically make one a nazi.
Well aware this is a year+ late comment. Thoughts on it are as follows - GW's frequent discontinuation of old figurines (Guard, Marines, Necrons, and Eldar all have 5+ models that no longer exist in range. There's also things like the tomb kings War Sphynx) makes recasting a limited way to get some of those models, this is also true for fear of missing out models (Anniversary & limited run models. Same goes for legends units.) When it comes to Forgeworld's comical pricing and lack of quality control in their resin injection molds, when the forger takes more care to get it right than the official, you go to the forger.
Regarding the "Play something cheaper/play something else" point, ask twenty strangers if they've heard of Warhammer, you'll get a few Yes's. Some of them will possibly have played / do play. Do the same to any of those other systems and you'll get a majority of "There's a board-game now?" at best and a "What?" the rest of the time. If your local group doesn't play those other games, neither do you since getting someone to start another expensive hobby on top of their current one is a non-starter. Seriously, try it, tell me how it goes and we can play your anecdote vs my anecdote and see where the data analysis there goes.
Mono-pose. Recasts, depending on the style they are done, often break away from this particular trend. Yes you can just snip, sand, & re-glue official models but if the re-cast has the individual parts on easy-remove "not sprue" then they offer a more customizable piece for a lower cost. Something that plays heavily into army customization which GW seems to be running away from.
"It'll hurt GW" - No, it won't, at least not in a way that matters. For those familiar with general accounting, GW operates between a 30%-40% core operational profit. To put this into perspective, 136.9 million pounds sterling of their total 391.5 million pounds sterling is pure profit. Exceedingly few businesses ever come near that. Even the toy making monster in the room Hasbro only does between 15%-25% in amazing sales years.
IP and copyright are.... a rant in and of itself. IP limbo, lost media, and profit motive hell are a dissertation in itself. Generally speaking, anyone who does meaningful analysis of these systems would merrily call the entire thing "Hot pustule infested nurgle vomit crusted in whatever crawled out of it coupling with a troop of slaaneshi daemonette's" - If GW were made to play with functional trademark, intellectual property, and copyright laws 40k would have entered public domain in the early 2000's instead of the WTO's application of Disney's "Mickey Mouse Laws" in all first world countries to some extent.
No GW =/= No Hobby. 1 page rules exists because of rules bloat and came out of the WH community because they were getting annoyed at codex creep, shit balancing, and zero play-testing. For fucks sake, the entirety of Battlefleet Gothic's table top side only exists because fans keep updating it and the models almost exclusively exist as either 3d prints or recasts any more. Games are kept alive by their interest in them.
Generally speaking, recasters provide a service that GW fails to do and allow access into a hobby that wouldn't exist otherwise.
*edited for the incredibly disingenuous no gw = no hobby comment.
I've never bought a recast because I'm worried about it being poor quality or held by customs but I literally do not care if it hurts GW or even drives them out of business. They make games with bad rules and anti consumer practises. They have been doing this for decades but because they can afford to run physical stores and are most people's entry to miniature gaming they have lion's share of the market. There's loads of miniature games out there that are way better to play by companies that are less evil but you can never get a game so everyone is stuck with 40k 🤷♂️
Yes. Pretty much sums up how I feel. I've never purchased anything recast since I've never found anything I actually wanted. But these days I spend far more money at Anvil Industries and Mad Robot (neither of whom are recasters) than GW.
Precisely I recently bought a box of chaos terminators despite a chain axe being their base weapon the kit only has ONE! what a joke! The box before that only had four power fists as well.
For me as a customer it's a no brainer. If FW wants me to buy their stuff, they'll have to provide either better prices or better quality than recasters. They're currently failing on both
Agreed
Yup. If GW can be beaten by some guy in his garage in china, that's their problem
@@joeyn985 Exactly! I live in china and the recast quality is insane. I bought Sanguinius for $15 and it looks amazing. FW sells it for $132. Screw them!
Same, fw is simply too expensive for me to justify buying. Also, there are models i want that are no longer in production, limited edition or regional exclusive.
You know what's funny? I bought a Kytan last December, base was missing, FW support keeps sending me the wrong bases even tho I told them what size of base a Kytan should have. It's kinda hilarious to be honest.
There was also the one time I bought 20 Iron siege terminators with a bad case of moldslip in their legs, it went strait through the detail and they said: "our quality control team has deemed them acceptable." A friend in Russia set me up with affordable replacement legs.
I don't buy legitimate GW/FW anymore, because the quality just isn't there anymore.
I agree with you on most of your points. Although I spent a huge amount of money at Forgeworld in the last 12 months, I also bought some recasts. Forgeworld is discontinuing a lot of sets for 30k, which means that recasters are the only place where you can buy certain kits for your army. For example, collecting a Solar Auxilia army without recasts is impossible, because Forgeworld can’t be bothered to produce essential units for the faction.
I will continue to spend most of my money at Forgeworld in the future, but seeing a great kit going out of production is gut wrenching.
Personally I'm going to judge re-casts after the stuff I bought from Black Market gets here. Bought some DKoK stuff off of Forge World and it is some of the worst shit I've seen and built. Brittle as hell, warped, flash everywhere, holes everywhere. Stuff was broken that I needed to fix. So if this stuff from Russia comes in better state. I'm just going to buy all my DKoK stuff that I can get from there, from there. If it costs what it fucking should (the price of a squad of Cadian) and doesn't require hours of time fixing shit I shouldn't have to, then I'm sorry but I'm just going to make a wanking gesture at FW. I'll still buy stuff I have to buy (like company command squads) and stuff from GW that are their amazing plastic kits. But I won't feel even an iota of sympathy for FW if some guys in a dingy broken hovel in Russia can give me a better quality and cheaper product than an industry titan.
Well, I said I would judge them. And it it gut churning how good these recasts are. These little bastards took forever to get here. But I just opened the box 5 minutes ago and am combing through the stuff as I type this.
The casts are amazing. They have all the detail of Forgeworld models I've purchased from Forgeworld themselves. They have almost no flash, I haven't seen any kind of major warping, there is a few tiny bits of warping, but it's so minimal that it might be overkill to even go in with a hairdryer to fix them.
Not a bubble or hole in sight and no double mould lines.
Literally the only downside I can find is that the command squad flag bearer doesn't come with a flag pole (as FW uses brass rods for flag poles and spear shafts).
Honestly the only reason I'm only going to rate these recasts a 9/10 is the time taken (like 2 months).
lol Forge World is like the pretty girl on the play ground I'm not confidant enough to talk to.
And when you finally do you realize she’s all just looks and has no personality...
And a high maintenance disaster of a person.
Its funny because the pretty girl has more pores and imperfections than the girl that copies her
And just as intimidating until you learn how to clone her as many times as you want
...this metaphor’s breaking down pretty quick
Lmaooooo
Thats cool, try telling this to fans of factions GW no longer support, and act like scumbags defending IP they chose to squat, im vigorously against recasts of smaller companies, but when youre charging twice the amount for a lesser amount of models thats just a massive middle finger to fans, what GW should do is source out their older models to another company, cut out the competition and make it legal, they even did this years ago with Armorcast
Hey, maybe stop whining and buy more Primaris Marines and some blue paint?
@@unsaltedbutter8166 some limited ed stormcast and gold paint too????
Rip Bretonnia :'(
Guess I'll use Frostgrave minis
Also some of the prices are just retarded. GW tanks and vehicles look like dogshit compared to other military vehicle models, especially WW2 ones which are 1/4th the price.
@@KironVB that entirely depends on which company you use and they're a different scale, although yes there are soooo many GW tanks that look shit
GW: Copies Dune and Alien IP for 40k. Also GW: People need to stop copying our IP.
Dune, Alien, D&D, Elric, starship troopers, judge Dredd, and HP lovecraft are all something Warhammer has lifted.
@@rexkramer9540 I remember when they sent a C&D over a book with space marine in the title. A term they didn't create.
Or the Threat of lawsuit because a company made a Lammassu Miniature. A creature of babylonian mythology.
Warhammer and warhammer 40k are literally cludgy hodgepodge copies of fantasy and sci fi tropes from the 80s that some british dudes thought were cool.
The fact that they have the audacity to be so strict on copyright when they literally copied everything they produce is ridiculous
@Kamikaze Killjoy - 1. There's a difference between borrowing from other fictional IP and borrowing from accounts of actual history.
2. Copyright and patent are two different things, and we aren't talking about patent here.
3. Suing someone for copyright infringement for using a term that you didn't create, but borrowed from another IP that you were riffing on is not acceptable behavior by any interpretation of copyright law. That's like a company besides Xerox trying to sue you for calling a photocopy a xerox. Not only is it a generic term at this point, but the other company never even owned the word to begin with.
Ive never bought recasts, I just 3d print all my models now. Learn a few 3d software programs and you can sculpt your own models and print them for next to nothing. 3d printing is the future.
Yes, but there are plenty of great original creators making 40k compatible models to print. The makers cult is my go to. Check out the feudal guard and the valor corps, just for imperial guard proxies. They got marines, mechanicus, even titans
This is my plan. I'm going to buy a Phrozen Sonic Mini 8K, print my own stuff, design my own stuff and maybe make some money with my own designs/prints. Now, all I need is to teach myself how to do it all and I'm on my way. Lol.
- OOP models: I'd gladly pay for a 3rd ed plastic/resin carnifex or 2. or 6. (And I hate resin minis with a passion, so...)
- Always out-of-stock models (aka: whatever the meta dictates those days): same. I want a thing, you can't provide? Fine, I'll go somewhere else. Get your sh!t together GW, you have the money to product on-demand without 6 months delays.
- "Limited edition": ...bruh.
- Forgeworld: mfker, 500+€ for a model? That's big fat no. A 50$ recast with less details / small defects will do (AND still less problems than forgeworld models!)
- Never buy directly from GW, you'll find tons of online shop with much lower prices even with shipping. (I'm looking at you elementgames, my love.)
I play Rebels in Star Wars Legion and my brother wants to get into Warhammer 40k, so guess who already has a bunch of painted Astra Militarum? This guy.
Just find the IG boys that look the closest
There's one line in there that I think is absolutely incorrect - "If everyone bought recast, there'd be no more games workshop, and without them, no hobby". That's like saying without EA/Ubisoft/Activision there'd be no pc gaming. I believe if it wasn't for GW's extremely anti-consumer actions over the past decade, wargaming would be double it's current size. They create some amazing models and do some great world building, but wargaming is growing despite GW, not because of them.
Eons: "Don't overeat your hobby"
Me: About to buy new Slaanesh minis. Gearing up for Soulblight gravelords army, with Nighthaunts, Stormcasts and Adeptus Titanicus models still to paint.... "do I have a problem?"
As a follower of slaanesh excess is expected... knowing you have a "problem" health hobby and life style is a good thing. Embracing it and diving deeper into it is just you exploring slaanesh you beautiful cultist you. One could say you are working towards perfection.
If you did not embrace the excess you would be nothing but a filthy lying heathen playing space monkeys and denying you have an problem. While proclaiming the toilet god wills it.
@@snarkymcsnarkface1863 Thank you for your kind words, it never occurred to me that my hobbying was simply another way to express my worship of the one supreme Deity!
Yes, I've had that problem too. But clearing out nearly £1000 worth of stuff in the last 6 months felt good.
I think something you missed is how ludicrously expensive it is for some countries, what would cost me 40 to buy in England costs me atleast 120 off of the webstore. I still buy in person to support my local, but other than that it's recasting for me
Jay, what do you think of recasting models GW no longer makes & has no intention of reissuing?
Didn't he said it in 5:18. Basically, tough luck, deal with it, tis not a crime, muh recast still bad.
If they don't enforce their trademark/copyright for up to 10 years they won't be able to sue in court if someone else uses it. Hence recasting Steel Legion in example is not illegal.
Like the model for Asdrubael Vect which they stopped making and don't even update the rules of anymore (for some reason.).
@@paulsheldon8838 no that’s only about limited models. Out of production models that are integral to some factions he didn’t even mention.
If they discontinue something, then it's fucking fair game. I'm not going to pay these garbage high prices from original owners. If they stop supporting or let an army slowly die, like Krieg, it's go time imo.
If they gave us enough weapon options in the boxes, I may feel bad for them, but they don't. If they brought back bit ordering, on their site, I'd be fine with that. I cannot and will not justify paying for another box, for another of the weapon option.
So, it's basically only weapons and discontinued/dying stuff.
I could'nt agree more! *cough* looks over to my recast chaos war mammoth
As an a hobbyist based in Australia - where GW marks up our price 30% + above the rest of the world (whos prices are high enough) for no reason other than gouging, recasts are the only thing that have me in the hobby and I don't feel the least guilt about using them. GWs Australian pricing is rabidly anti-consumer, you can only kick people in the guts so many times before they feel morally comfortable going to recasters.
I tend to agree with you though I have some reservations about blanket saying "recasting bad" or "3d printing bad". As a huge fan of some of the older game systems its just plain not feasable to get authentic minis. A perfect example would be battlefleet gothic, it hasnt been produced by GW for 11 years but there is still a strong player base so things that cost £6 back in 2008 now go for £80. In this case i just use derivative 3d models designed by third parties and print my own or in a couple of cases ive recast some smaller simpler models for my own use. simply put what im doing isnt against the law (in fact most recasting of gw stuff isnt because of copyright lapse through selective enforcement) and i think you would have a hard time making a moral case against me for doing it. I make the choice not to replace like for like production models of gw with printed or recast things. thats the line for me.
Also the blanket refusal to acknowledge 3d printed parts as legitimate creative expression is not good. I was asked to leave a gw instore gaming even because when my apothocaries narthecium fell off it was revealed that it was green transparent resin, (the horror) it didnt matter to the manager that it was a single forarm piece which i had designed in blender and printed myself, the attitude was "3d printing bad". why is it bad? what i did was no different to hand sculpting in greenstuff, something entirely permissable and promoted by GW, but because some print off entire armies somehow what i do producing custom parts for myself (i dont even freely distribute my mesh files) is also bad.
There needs to be some serious discussion on where the line is on recasting and 3d printing because blanket "they bad" is not consistent with law and in a lot of circumstances is entirely hypocritical.
I still buy gw minies by 3rd link affiliate for that sweet 15% off. However, forge world is definetly way overpriced. Id rather buy from some recaster that have about the same quality of casting (if not better in certain cases) than buy from them. 100 $ cad for 5 dudes is absolutely nuts
Forge world is not expensive from the company pov. Yes the models are expensive but the mold to make them is even more expensive. Since ForgeWorld is a really small part of the hobby they need to put high prices to have benefits from a mold. If ForgeWorld was better advertised on GW main site and more people were buying from them they wouldn’t need to put crazy high prices. It’s a loop that will most likely kill ForgeWorld if GW doesn’t try to save it
Go to wayland games.I am not sure if it’s cheaper but it w
may be 20%
@Bao Thuy FW and GW miniatures are all made in UK
@@wakito64 nah they are ripping you off
Games workshop complaining about recasting is like a movie star getting paid tens of millions per film complaining about how movie piracy hurts their take home pay and expecting me to care about them.
Literally that old south park episode....
Eh, I don't really care about GW, if they wanted me in the hobby earlier, they'd have had decent prices. I would have bought recasts a long time ago, but the shipping of them from Russia is arse, makes the models themselves as expensive as if I would have gotten then from GW (that's why I feel like I should try from China instead). That's why the vast majority of my IG models are third party, and the only thing I really buy from GW are paints. The attitude GW has towards its customers turned me off playing the game completely. I now collect 10mm stuff, and per mini, it is infinitely cheaper.
My outlook is as follows:
1. Recasting for personal use is always ok
2. Recasting models to sell that are currently being sold by GW is never ok
3. Selling/buying recasts of OOP models is legally wrong (in most countries due to IP) but morally justifiable
My reasoning is that Geedubs is not losing money on models that they are not selling anyway.
Want a recast of discontinued oldhammer model that's been OOP for 30 years? Sure.
Need extra weapons that were not in the box? Buy bitz, buy 3rd party, 3d print or recast for yourself, but if you sell it for profit then that is wrong.
Need a 150mm oval base for a scratchbuilt ork buggy? 3d print one, GW isn't selling them so they don't lose anything.
What if I just dont care about ethics
Is that why you did so much wrong Magnus?
I dunno, when GW dropped 3 figures from the Indomitus box to 80% of the price of it, there is no reasonable way you can buy that.
I think recasting is like pirating games. They are symptoms of a problem within the industry.
When game developers make unreasonable products, pirating increase.
I think the same can be said about recasting.
I agree. No one *likes* recasts. Resin is shit compared to plastic, and quality is pretty hit or miss...... mostly miss though. But when it comes to a company charging hundreds dollars for a tank that's only a few inches long, people become willing to overlook a lot of the deficiencies.
Pirating is very similar, however there is a giant difference, pirating games actually increases sales, particularly for single player games, people don't want to risk getting screwed over by buying a brand new game at launch, so they pirate a version a week later for nothing, and in 6 months they buy it if they liked it, and if they didn't they just don't, but in the end the way the math works out if people had to take the risk of buying it the first time less will buy it ever, and even people that are to poor to buy it even if they want it, they see the game 3 to 4 years later on sale and get it for cheap, when GW has a product that is recasted, most people aren't going to buy a GW version later, because it rose in prices since release, and they are gonna make you buy warhammer plus ultimately ultramarine edition for free shipping
“Games workshop selling limited (models) isn’t a crime”
That’s where you’re wrong kiddo
This!!11!!!111!
It’s literally not a crime
so over the past week ive bought 2 primarchs from forgeworld, the Lion who ive waited 27 years for and Corax, they set me back £158 for 2 models! yes i know primarchs are stupidly over priced and frankly GW dont give a toss about their customers. Ive swapped all my paints, brushes, glues...everything from citadel to whatever else i can find cheaper because its all bullshit there now. Ive got the money to spend there but i refuse now to actually buy direct (forgeworld was a one off). There is no way they can 1. justify their prices anymore 2. its all about "recruitment" and getting kids through the door to spend their parents money now.
Back on track, i have maybe 4 recast sets and frankly they were worth the money and im looking at buyin the rest of the primarchs recasted too...GW have made their money, dont listen to their customer base and buttfuck anyone who actually have a different opinion. IT hurts to say after nearly 30 years in the hobby, but Coronavirus puts things in to perspective...GW can suffer
To be fair GW has been robbing us with their rediculously high prices for years
"GW aren't that big in the greater scheme of things"
Literally more than 3x bigger than the entire UK fishing industry.
Buy preowned armies.
They are cheaper + metal models
I agree. I love the feeling of finding an ancient OOP mini on eBay to add to my collection. Especially the earlier Citadel stuff which was all but impossible to find in the US.
The price of preowned, especially classic stuff, has gone crazy recently. I used to get all my stuff 2nd hand but it's gotten to the point where the convenience of having the models unbuilt and unpainted is more worth the slight extra expense of buying new
@@redyellowpink01 it depends. There are Always great Deals Out there. I often search for Metal Figures because more than once basements are cleaned Out and people dont know their stuff
That comment was a Bit unspecific. I Type in -metal figures- or -metal miniatures- . You get a lot of nonsens but some times you can find real treasures. I found a lot of 20 c100 rouge Trader space marines ( like the anniversery Reprint 2 years ago ) for 20 incl. Shipping.
@@bendiv7999 The older mini's were under the Citadel name, which can filter out stuff from other companies. Also, Stuff of Legends is a great resource to find what collection many older mini's were under and you might even find it's name if it had one. This can make searching for a specific mini a lot easier. I've got a few saved searches for certain c# collections along with some old named characters.
I think it is completely valid to do it because of price and the fact some models don't exist anymore or can only be bought used, especially the last one since GW won't see any of that money either way. They created a hole in the market by themselves they can easily fix on their own by simply listening to people but due to either pride or incompetence they don't. Like with the removal of the Cadian bits from FW and Kasrkin from the mainline both which sold really well. The fact ancient models still cost as much as new models tear into the profits as well. Some of their oldest models are likely pure profit at this point since the production line is paid off so if they cut that price in half it would also make it easier for new people to get in. Businesses have been saved by closing sales, the whole jacking up prices is a classic mistake anyone who remembers their education in marketing would know.
In 87 when 40k came out 3 models were £1.50 which is now worth about 2.50 and GW really was small company then
Oh, people at Games Workshop do not get paid good wages. It's an exploitative labor market.
Well, that doesn't exactly help with that argument. Although, giving a company less money because they give their employees less money sounds like a fast way to give said employees less money. Maybe.
@@swankypants9366 Look, I can't tell you how to fix capitalism, but I can tell you that what you should NOT do is continue to buy from a company that uses exploitative labor, as they will just continue to use that model since you've given them no reason to change. There are tons of other companies selling tons of other models. Or you can buy models directly from sculptors on Patreon. If Games Workshop went under the hobby would not die; if there's a need the market will fill it, possibly with another company that does better.
Yeah fair point
@@djclawson Do you think buying from recasters in Russia and China is any better? We don’t know what kind of conditions the people who are making these recasts are working with. How much they’re being paid, if at all. The material and how toxic it may or may not be.
@@Normandy42 I think we should all at least try to make informed decisions as consumers. Recasters don't provide a better alternative, legally-speaking, but there are so many miniature companies out there and so many people reselling bits that you can put an army together in the best way you know how.
Wtf do I do when legit GW products are 4 to 5 times more expensive than the average in Brazil?
Play a different game I guess?
buy recasts.
Wayland games
“Not sponsored” lol
"Recasters are a leech. Living off the product and demand they had no part in generating" *See- Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein and Alien directed by Ridley Scott. GW has been profiting off those and other things for decades. Just had to point that out. Now that said I don't buy recasts. I support the hobby I choose to play in and buy official GW stuff. Also this was one of your best videos guys. Great work
Taking design cues and inspiration from other things is completely different than reproducing something line for line and idk how anyone would think otherwise.
GW took inspiration from works. Designers still had to go in and sculpt all the models over the years. From the smallest grot to the Warlord Titan, someone took the time to make the vision in their head come to life. Something that took tens of thousands of hours across many years and even more when they physically had to sculpt them before 3D CAD was a thing. Recasters don’t do any of that. They just take someone, like Will Hayes’, hard work and sell it for pure profit after putting nothing into its creation. That’s the difference.
@@christopherschlegel6412 have you ever heard of Elric? That's the book series where GW stole the chaos star from. Just wanted to point that out.
The figures in my army and collection are 50/50 recasts and the official figures.
Recasts make me able to continue my hobby. I will try to make my collection 70% official, 30% recasts, when i have the financial opportunity for it. If i couldn't buy recasts sometimes, i would just quit my hobby and GW would lose that 50% of my plastic crack-addiction AND the money that i use for their paints.
I do not believe it is right to buy recasts in the long run, but my hobbying would need to stop if i bought 100% official miniatures. I appreciate GW, but in my situation i couldn't continue my hobby without those "bad guys" (recasters).
Rebels are usually worse then the Empire they rise to fight but it's the Empires fault they exist.
Also I like this guy but God this video is bad.
The part where he goes I'm not going to talk about morals and it's everybodies choice to decide how they feel about, Theft.
May as well just say "I WIN LOL!" then slam the door. It's a clever and weasley tactic. I like him but not for his takes on the political sphere of the hobby world.
@@culturalliberator9425 What exactly is political about IP infringement?
@@Effenent Hobby politics, do you know how to read?
What about models that aren't produced anymore? Or an army that is actively being out into legends?
Talking about DKOK. They are now dead as an army. If I want grenadiers to run as scions in home games, am I at fault? You can't buy them anymore, so who's being hurt?
Surprised you didn't bring up the side of dying models/armies specifically forge world
There’s alternate models like he said tho, I feel like that’s fair
I’ll never buy anything forge world after what they did with the death Korps
Well this video aged like milk, at the time it made sense and I think was well thought out, now…oh how the tables have turned
5:12 So Brick Arms making rip offs of weapons from Halo and Star Trek is OK?
For Battletech, the miniatures are quite expensive too, but on top of that, they're often sold out and shipping takes forever(at least to Canada). I buy the real deal when I can, but also 3D print my own. I've been tempted to try recasting just for myself, so I don't have to wait a year(not an exaggeration) for my order to arrive.
GW gets hundreds of dollars from me almost every month, I love building and painting for relaxing, especially basing.
And if I love a certain base I built, with GW parts on it or not, I make a mould so I can have more copies of that base later if I want to.
For all the IP wankers in here, technically what you're doing is violating their copyright, you're copying their parts for personal use.
@@joeyn985 hard to make a case for tho, it’s like a collage if it’s gw pieces, materials, and paint.
I think one poblem is us as a community, we need to boycot GW by not buying their new army or app to show them we don't like such high price. But every body runs to the webstore like crack addicts, so...
I don’t play WH or any other tabletop. I just love assembling and painting, then displaying my models.
I love some of the GW models, but Jesus, the prices for plastic is absurd. The paint pots are DESIGNED to waste paint. GW is without a doubt, profit driven and couldn’t care less what is in the customers best interest or what they ask for. The novels are absurdly scarce as well.
If I could find a great company for recasts, I would buy elsewhere, or just invest in a 3D printer.
Frankly i have to say my personal take
I buy what i want when i can. I never go exclusive GW or recast. I dont mind either. GW is too expencive for me in a (more or less) 3rd world country. Models aren't available en mass, or dont have a big stock to choose from. I bought a lot less models from recast than GW, i like the orginial better. In recent times originals have cropped up on another shop here, and i've more or less sunk 50$+ every month on a box or two. And i spend maybe 200$ a year on recasts. O dont feel bad at all. I support the company, but at the same time, starting an army or project is MUCH cheaper with recasts. So i start some collections in resin and continue original. I dont think its just a black/white thing. A recast can be a gateway drug into some money for gw. Yes, i did not give the money to GW right away, but in time i mostly get what i want/need from them. Furthermore, i cant find recast Bolt Action minis and frankly i dont want to. Im happy sinking 100$ on that knowing i have 2(!!!) Armies ready to go afterwards. The problem is the entry. Ive bought a fullprice chaos SM squad and start collecting recently and im happy. Why- it was in stock, i had the cash, i wanted it right away
I bought an entire army of Drukhari last year of recasts. Why- waaaay cheaper and gets me in easier, still fine quality, i wanted quantity not speed, no need for stock, i get what i want. So there are many factors. And i dont think buying recasts is all that bad. Frankly, i think it made GW more money from me than they would get normally for ranges that seem too expencive to buy into (many model drukhari army).
And still more than half of each army i own is plastic
I own a good sized BA army, 6k points, and maybe 30% of it is not GW, or less. If i didnt get some resin fix i doubt id have half of the plastics i own.
The final thaught is balance
You get what you want how you want, but you also support. I have a steady income recently and could affoard plastics. So i did.
No malice
Simply practicality
Recasting isn't, but 3D printing is :) Buying Digital files from independent modelers who do better jobs supporting armies that GW forget exist. New models every week, no waiting time for models to be available again or a model to be released or boxed in a weird way (like the new heavy intercessors) and you even have different design choices for a lot of units.
Very true, but by buying the STL files you'll be also buying the right to produce them yourself. You might not, however, be getting the right to print them and then sell them on.
GW forced my hand to buy a 3d printer. The Lizardmen model line is 20 years old ffs. They will be getting a couple of new models next month, but their last model release was in 2015. 3D printing is a blessing!
After discovering the high quality and price savings of resin 3D printing I can't believe GW isn't exploring the idea of selling STL file versions of their products. Plus when you buy retail, 40% of your money is probably going to packaging.
At leas for some of the OOP print stuff...
Think of this though, if you bought the STLs for a squad they make that sale once. Let's assume you use that squad at least twice, there for they lost money. The only way they would sell STLs with their model is if it was units you only will ever really need one of in your entire playing career, like primarchs or something else along those lines.
They will be dragged kicking and screaming into the present reality at some point - large companies can be quite slow to react to changes in tech sometimes
You should definitely buy whatever you can get your hands on in an affordable fashion. Listen, it's up to you on the quality you want and the money you want to spend. In my opinion, I like guard units that gw doesn't make often, therefore I do what I have to to make it happen.
Forgeworld are part of the specialist games division, so they are producing necromunda and bloodbowl stuff. as well as the boxed games
To be fair, those are not even that overpriced in relation to GW characters.
I love my Scrutinator Primus Servalem and Cyberdoge for the price of a Primaris Captain.
I agree but also I think 3d printing is different, its similar in a lot of ways but honestly its closer to the smaller guys selling hero look alike because even if they do just rip the GW model no small ammount of work went into sculpting something the same, I generally go for alternates though things that have been sculpted to look alike to the original but are still new unique models
Typical myth 1: 'Buy recast = no GW'. Typical myth 2: 'no GW = no WH'. Typical myth 3: 'no WH = no Hobby'.
Science tell us that all that sentences are just myths. Why? Just because there is no choice between 'To buy 1 miniature (Underworlds)' and 'To buy 10 miniatures (WH)'. In reality customers choose between 'To buy recast' and 'Not to buy anything'.
As someone who makes scale models, i dont understand how you guys still buys their stuff.
I'm here, fellow craftworld players, come sit on my table and lets all lower our brows at this video in unison.
As a russian, I have a lot to say.
Recasters are common in Russia because of the Games Workshop's own politics. Russia is the biggest country in the world, there is a lots of people who are interested in Warhammer models and games, and what do we get from GW? Nothing. No official clubs. No official shops. No events. No any activity. AT ALL.
All we have until now is a single official distributor with constant supply problems. In many cases you can not buy what you want, unless you order it from abroad and agree to wait a few weeks (or months).
There is why recasters are here. There is an empty niche. GW ignoring the whole market, and this is the real problem. In my opinion, if they fill the market with their own product, the problem will will be solved by itself. ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ
sometimes i want forgeworld sometimes a chinese or russian guy has said forgeworld 10x cheaper and better looking and sometimes they get my money over gdub
Link plz 😁
I want to add one bit of information for consideration: GW built a big portion of old fantasy on actual theft. Like, seriously. The most horrible example is the star of Chaos, which was basically taken exactly from the Elrick books, where it also represented a faction of Chaos.
I'm not saying this to defend recasting, I'm just saying it's a thing to consider
lol bro. I know it's been 3 years, but Elrick didn't make the chaos symbol. That's a sigil actual practicing "magicians" would use to represent the idea of chaos. The chaos star is hundreds of years old.
GW has a giant elephant in the room with their pricing models for New Zealand and Australia.
If I could purchase from the UK directly, the price is AT LEAST 50% off, but they put in a regional block that prevents retailers from selling outside their area.
So, I use recasters for the time being.
If GW pulls their head out of their ass and fixes the pricing discrepancy then I'll go back to making legit purchases.
What I hate is models that can only be bought through box sets. Iron Warriors love having 9 Obliterators so you need to buy 5 start collecting boxes. $450? That's just disgusting.
The long and short of it is if they didn't short change their consumers as a business model, used the modeling tech and their exorbitant profits to create fully fledged up to date armies, didn't actively train staff to be toxic and uninviting to consumers if you don't buy what ticks their KPI's.. and so on this wouldn't be anywhere near as prolific as it is. Recast away people you are modern day buccaneers.
"If everyone bought recasts there would be no GW and no hobby." I'm p sure folks were paining minis and wargaming before GW were a thing.
The reason we don't have access to the resources required for our wellbeing (including those things deemed luxuries) is down to us being forcibly dispossessed of the things we need to live well. There is no reason for a working class person to care for the wellbeing of a company which makes its wealth from the exploitation of others.
Man this was made before all the box sets that weren’t made enough of them for big releases.
Well the "Games workshop is fine, you guys are just being mean" didnt age quite well
GW told me straight up I wouldn't be missed, so now I do what I want lmao
did they say "Abel Babel YOU will not be missed" or did they say prejudice hatred and abuse will not be missed? also "you will not be missed" is a quote from the first page of every 40k rulebook since 2nd edition 40k.
@@EonsOfBattle They said if I don't see eye to eye with them on irl identitarianism I won't be missed as a customer. No room for discussion or a different view on its role in escapist fiction; it was accept that the corporation has the gospel truth on irl philosophy or begone.
And you're exactly right, I recognized the quote. I was quite shocked they would bring a 40k sentiment into the real world, especially turned against their own customers.
@@abelbabel8484 I am perfectly fine with GW continuing to diversify their cast of characters portrayed through miniatures, art, and storytelling so everyone can find heroes they relate to" I don't find that the least bit objectionable. but maybe I'm wrong.
@@EonsOfBattle I don't have an issue with that, more models, more better. My problem is with a for profit corporation lecturing people on what to believe - imagine Microsoft had patriotism standards for selling to you. It's absurd.
@@EonsOfBattle you are shilling too hard for GW and it's showing... we have a saying in my country: " if you got no chicken, you eat the crow ".
Third parties capitalising in GW IP is wrong, but people casting copying their work is not for personal use it's not. If GW is overpricing their products (and they are!) it's their problem... in a world that's heading post scarcity, making high priced scarce plastic models is pure greed. Also nothing immoral here, since when greedy entities stopped people striving for liberation? By your logic we would be all slaves if we bent to the overlords. Rebellion is part of human nature and it's what keep us free and make us great!!!!
i agree and disagree
1. how many ideas has gw "borrowed" from other companies
2. when they originally switched from metal to plastic they said they were saving us money
3. how much does the plastic actually cost
4. how many game systems does gw start and stop supporting after a year or two
Very well thought out and said. 👍
$150 AUD for start collecting boxes. You know, one of the first things you buy to get into the game. I’m printing a tyranid start collecting box on my 3D printer to give it a test for virtually nothing. If then, I’m happy with what I’m playing, I’ll think about buying the real thing or drop the game completely.
At least with Gunpla, a master grade is completely superior in both price, quality, detail, plastic and the amount of kit you actually get.
Oh, and then I would buy another MG or real grade with the money left over and still be ahead in all the factors listed above. Point is, they’re way overpriced here in Australia so the barrier to entry is sky high.
And now that Start Collecting boxes are being replaced with Combat Patrols, which are often far less valuable. The Thousand Sons took a real hit when that happened, for example.
How recasting/buying recast of out of print mini is morally bad? Even if you would by legitimite one, GW would still not see a dime of it, due to mini being second hand. They literally said, we don't need your custom, no desired mini for you. So, in that case there is no legal avenue to by them, so why not recast?
Great video! The only time I've even considered recasters is for discontinued models, but that's mainly because buying those models second-hand are ridiculously inflated.
That's actually something I'm surprised you didn't bring up: second-hand armies. Usually you can get them pretty cheap from people who are just getting out of the game or an army. Yeah, it's a bit more work to restore some models, but if you want to play 40k by giving as little money as possible to GW, it's a good way to "stick it to the man".
What is the best way or site you’ve used to find secondhand miniatures? Are they particularly easy to find in bulk or is it more likely to find a handful here and there?
So this is basically the same arguments people use against shoplifting. The idea that buying recast minis instead of buying GWs overpriced stuff is going to hurt the workers at the company is total BS. Almost every company in the entire world hires the minimum number of staff that are needed anyway. It isn't like if they see their sales dip by 1% because of recasting that they will then cut wages for their workers or whatever. It's a billion dollar company. They can absorb such losses. There is this attitude towards companies and employment that treats a company offering ions to people as if the company is engaging in an act of charity, that we should be thankful for the company for allowing people to earn a living by working there. That is absolutely backwards. Who is at at a company that actually produces the profit that the company exists to procure? Is it the broad of directors? Is it the managers who harass and belittle the workforce? No, of course now. It is the workers themselves that produce value for the company. When a company hires workers, it is because that is how the entire company can exist in the first place. That is how the company makes money. Without workers, there is no company. Hiring a worker is not an act of charity that a company engages in, so we should be nice and by their products so that the workers can get paid well. The company pays the workers only a portion of the value that the workers themselves produce. It is the workers who are making the value, and the company that is stealing it! If a company decides to fire part of their workforce, it isn't the consumers that are at fault, it is the company that is at fault. Recasting GWs overpriced shit is good, actually, and maybe if more people do it GW will stop with their ridiculous price hikes.
Not my personal use? My ass it stop being gws model the moment it was brought from the store
Considering you at home can 3d print a squad of krieg guardsmen with the same level of detail for less than a dollar while GW sells them for 70 FUCKING DOLLARS shows how shitty and greedy gw really is. Models don’t cost anywhere near what they charge to make they are horrible to the fans and customers of this hobby. Disney levels horrible. I feel no guilt printing their models for the shit they pull
About legallyty? That depends where are you from EU have it covered that when I buy something I can make as many copies as i want , i can't make it for Direct profit or saying that's my original work recasters on market yeah that's not legal or moral but when I buy orks then make for my collection some additional casted bodies to use rest of gear? Completely legal and as well there is nothing wrong with that ... Btw i did ask couple times even GW , they don't saw really big problem in that as well it depends on local law , but many countries have law allowing remaking stuff even uk did have "fair use " but not anymore
I’m not a lawyer, but I believe that’s how it works in the States as well. As long as you don’t make profit from it, you’re fine.
@@FunkBastid they're not gonna come knocking at your door or anything but it is still technically illegal.
@@timmyianni2309 i am not sure , there is fair use , i am not sure how it works because we have everything clearly stated how and when , and even moraly it is not really right to say you can't do with that plastic thing what you want
When I know how to remake stuff i bought for me and have material for that? Save a little money , or make some extra from rest parts? I invest in that with no interest of harming original maker or making competition for them with their work they make... Why this should be ilegal ... It's how humanity works 1man start another remake it or improve it ... that's literally how technology works
Maros Vodzak it’s because of copyright law, which is a particularly tricky mess to deal with in the internet age. These laws are usually internationally reciprocal, meaning that the copyright laws of your country apply as well as the copyright laws of the country of the copyright holders. The internet and 3d printers have made copyright holders fight for stricter copyright laws so they can maintain control over their intellectual property.
Thanks to local retailer prices GW products are now unaffordable in Russia, so I choose recast.
"Recasts are unethical and you should not buy them"
"But What if I do it anywayyy~~~"
What about out of production models. I really want Vostroyans but GW will never make them again. Is it wrong to get recasts of something that they no longer even sell? i would buy them if gw sold them but im not gonna pay £10 a guardsmen model on ebay haha
Buying recast OOP is totally fine.
That was a great video! I agree with almost everything, but when company decides to make limited run and you are unable to get it (say after 5 years of the production) I don't really think the company loses profits, as you are unable to get such product. It may be legit marketing strategy, but oh boy is it annoying when you can not get certain miniatures anymore (not that much of GW issue, Knight Models do this even more). Also, how do you feel about reproducing bits (like certain helmets) for your own use with something like blue stuff?
I use blue stuff or Oyumaru all the time! bits arms weapons etc. when it's under my house it's under my rules!
I bought recast tails for venomthropes, because a zoanthropes come with everything for venomthropes except a tail.
Sunk cost fallacy, perfect. 👌
For me its the value and the care the company puts into the item. Take GW with Drukhari units for example. There is a unit call Razorwing Flocks, it is a fine cast unit of 3-4 birds on 1 base, they are tiny birds for $18 for yes 4 tiny crappy resin birds. Some I can buy from literally 100's of other companies for 0.50c to $1 per bird or flock of birds (look at zombicide for example, or just little toys from dollar stores, etc... GW has prices something not just a little higher but insane levels of high compare to all other markets and on top of that in a terrible material that breaks, melts, has defects. etc... Even GW themselves sales better plastic birds in other plastic kits for way cheaper! Beasts of Chaos Endless spell pack, it is $35 for 3 birds, a large horn, and a fire bull. 3 bird bases for $35. 3 Finecast birds is $54. In the beasts of chaos pack each bird still costly IMO at $11.50 it beats out the $18 for 1 and its plastic! So yes I will get 3rd party for these birds when in situations like this (I still wont get a full recast, i try to get alternative models instead). B.c it is a stance, i am Boycotting certain products (and I do let GW know i have emailed them about this a few times and which products) b.c there is a line no matter what that should not be crossed, GW is selling a extremely over priced crappy product, so why should I buy it? Until GW chances some of these units I'll not buy from them.
PS: I have bought right from GW well over 20k in points from AoS, WHFB, 40k and many box games. I support GW more so to support my local, buying recasts doesn't support either. But again, some products needs to be boycott.
I bought zombicides murder of crows boxset because GW's Razorwings price turned my vision red.
You can’t recast a patreon page? Is that a challenge?!?!
As someone who runs their own art business, if people feel the need to recreate what i do for cheap or for accessibility purposes, thats on me. As a business if piracy is rampant for me and only me, then thats me doing something wrong because i could be getting their business for myself if i ran my business better.
If Games Workshop likes to be stingy thats their fault, if they have more reproductions than any other company they need to re evaluate their demographic and how they get their product out to them. The consumer isnt to blame for bad business