The Drydock - Episode 281
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
- 00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:41 - When the US was in the middle of their prohibition against alcohol from 1920- 1933 what would the Royal Navy do if they had to visit the US at the time?
00:04:19 - Under what circumstances could one realistically end up with a WWII-era battleship or fleet carrier's crew having to fight off an actual full-scale boarding action?
00:10:46 - How usual was it to have battleships have their guns replaced by a greater number of lower caliber guns? Would it make a difference?
00:15:35 - The USN was able to build floating drydocks, some big enough to handle Iowa-Class battleships, but why were there no floating slipways?
00:19:56 - Why do navies build dedicated training war ships, in the steel and steam age, like Jeanne d'Arc? Why not use ships who are in service as war ships.
00:25:05 - If you could swap out Bismarck with any other WWII-era battleship design (and no non-battleship warship) for the sake of the Kriegsmarine, which ship would you choose?
00:31:07 - Of the two ships lost in Force Z which was the bigger loss Repulse or Prince of Wales?
00:34:42 - What could the royal navy get with a battleship with the same tonnage as Bismarck?
00:36:55 - Would the M Class submarines have been effective?
00:39:22 - Would it be possible to have a turtleback citadel and an 'all or nothing' armour scheme at the same time?
00:41:30 - In the automotive world, I've seen some channels that make me think, 'What are you doing?!?' No need to name names, but what do you think are things that other RUclipsrs do that smear real historiographers like yourself and others?
00:48:45 - Could Enterprise (CV-6) have been used for the Japanese surrender ceremony?
00:51:20 - Where do we see the first gunpowder weapons being used on ships as a regular thing?
00:52:56 - Best WW1-era cruiser?
00:57:03 - How did Nelson and Villeneuve get to command the respective sides at Trafalgar?
01:04:48 - Bligh was the only officer on board the Bounty and the ship didn't have marines on board. Was this unusual for such an extended voyage and did either contribute to the mutiny?
01:07:16 - Quick visit to the US in Feb 2024?
Hearing Drach go off at Dark Docs is glorious
Thanks for letting us know who that was. I kept trying to search for who this was. It appears I blocked that channel already. I blocked the channel just from the click-stupid icons and titles. Was that the same channel that did the "admiral hipper class battleships" as well?
@@jackray1337indeed
Yep, all of their content is mass produced zero effort garbage, every single of their videos I have watched has mistake after mistake. The real shame is that basically nothing can be done about it.
@@Drachinifel And lets not forget their spin off channels, Admiral Drach... I especially love their Dark Skies vid where they claimed there was a plan to leave a guy aboard Salyut 3 to fire a self defence gun... Now, whilst this is true in that there was a plan to have a gun up there, it was only tested whilst the station was unmanned and they kept using footage of Skylab and Salyut 7
I really don't watch Dark Docs anymore. Their mistakes are blatantly obvious to even someone of my limited level of historical understanding. And I've even commented in their videos before, it's as if they have no quality control or fact checkers.
"In a way, Nelson was lucky to die at Trafalgar"
Reminds me of, "You either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain."
Something similar, but a bit different applies to Admiral Yi as well; given that King Seonjo’s paranoia had gotten the better of him by that point (which was part of why that whole fiasco with Yi being fired and almost executed happened, and even afterwards he continued to look down on Yi and downplay his achievements against all common sense and everyone else’s concerns), it’s very likely that he would have been arrested on false charges again and actually executed this time. The fact he died winning his final battle meant Seonjo had no choice but to give him full recognition of his services.
The dumbest part of this is that Seonjo’s efforts to keep Yi at bay were all for nothing and only harmed himself and his country because Yi had no political ambitions and limited political connections. Worse, Yi WASN’T the worst case of Seonjo being hostile to someone and making things worse for everyone because he saw a nonexistent threat to his power; the actual worst case would be what Seonjo did to his heir(!), who he routinely abused due to wrongly seeing him as a threat to his personal authority, leading said heir to literally go insane (and he couldn’t be replaced because his half-siblings were even more insane even before the war and went around murdering and raping people for fun).
I was thinking of Wellington after Waterloo. Becoming Prime Minister made sense at the time but it damaged his legacy in the long run.
@@alanfhall6450 And also Grant after the American Civil War.
@@RCAvhstapegrant didn't die though, he became president (later) and the teapot dome scandal was a massive stain on his reputation. EDIT: That's exactly what you meant, nevermind....
@@djbiscuit1818 👍
46:18 Hang on Drach, that can't be right. In 2012 I saw a video of the insanely armoured USS Missouri defeating an alien battleship. 😉
Does 'i need to borrow your boat' (if I've got the quote correct) constitute reactivation?
You mean the documentary "Battleship".
Interesting note about US Prohibition: you were legally allowed to drink. Only the manufacturer, sale, and transportation of alcohol was illegal (with exceptions for doctors and religious orders). In fact, most wealthy people were able to stock up before the ban and could survive off their private stocks for a very long time.
So in terms of that British Sailor, he may have been charged with something like disorderly conduct, but no special punishment would have been done for being drunk.
Considering the rule against alcohol on board U.S. navy ships continued into WW2 and beyond, U S. officers loved to attend meetings aboard R.N. ships. Often bringing things like hams for the officers mess.
If it was in New York harbor, the cops would probably bring the drunk sailor back to his ship in hope of getting some free rum themselves.
Prohibition was way, way less happy fun times and way more war on drugs than they'd like people to remember.
You can still read cabinet memos from the time talking about how they know people will die from the poisons they forced manufacturers to put in industrial alcohol. Here's a hint they were happy to kill people who dared defied them. They eventually reached the point of added poisons with similar boiling points to alcohol so people couldn't just buy industrial alcohol and distill it.
At that time they had no problems with just murdering everyone on a ship's bridge if they thought they were running rum.
I'm damn near certain the US government made an example out of some poor British sailor at some point.
I do know the human cost from that time gets really glossed over.
A human cost that lasts to today. The US government knows almost exactly how many people will die every single year drinking denatured alcohol and other untaxed AKA poisoned alcohol. They don't care.
Sorry Susie soccer mom but your teenage son chose to drink Sterno. His death is just a necessary loss in the decades old war on alcohol. It's okay we know how many teens will die like that every year but we make a lot of tax money off alcohol. So it's worth it to us.
@@eedwardgrey2 Assuming that story isn't apocryphal, it must have happened when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer, as that was the only office he held during the US Prohibition era.
It's true, in fact one of the co-founders of AA stated that he thought he'd finally be able to quit as there would be no booze during prohibition only to find out that as a doctor, he had access to all the booze he wanted.
Let's face it, while Enterprise was possibly the most distinguished fighting ship of the Pacific war, the Iowa class battleships take the cake for radiating intimidating POWER to an observer. One can argue that this was their primary effect when they were returned to service in the 80s and 90s. Sailing through the Strait of Hormuz with an Iowa and attending Aegis destroyers and cruisers makes a huge impression on an Iranian sailor despite their age and obsolescence.
The Iowas might have LOOKED powerful, but Enterprise WAS effectively powerful-big guns are completely useless when navies are fighting by sending carrier strikes (though granted, with all the ships close together for the surrender, a main battery might be more useful in that scenario).
@@bkjeong4302 Yes, I am well aware of your hatred of battleships reading your comments on this channel, but if you read my comment, I'm not talking about actual destructive capability so much as perception. In a ceremony, looks are more important than unseen technological edge.
@@RCAvhstapedo you want some popcorn 😂
So far as the prohibition question goes, the 18th Amendment says:
"Section 1
After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited." So, merely possessing alcohol wouldn't be a violation of Federal law unless you planned to transport it or sell it.
So being drunk, or even having alcohol on you, wouldn't be strictly illegal unless you're planning to transport it or store it. So a British sailor who got drunk on ship and then went ashore would only face local laws against being drunk and disorderly. Which is usually a misdemeanor, and at the time would probably end with the sailor being bailed out of jail by his captain, then he'd face discipline aboard ship.
Now, if he took some of his rum ration off ship, and local laws prohibited possession, then he could be charged, but again, he'd probably be released to his commander and disciplined aboard ship.
Correct. Drinking alcohol was not illegal. This is one reason speakeasies were popular, other than the booze. Patrons were not worried about being arrested when the police raided the establishment
Moving the rum from ship to shore can be arguably classified as transporting.
The rum runners who used speed boats to move alcohol from off-shore vessels in international waters to the shore could be imprisoned if caught. The US Coast Guard had to purchase ships that were as fast or faster in order to enforce prohibition.
"Rum War, The U.S. Coast Guard and Prohibition," Donald L. Canney
media.defense.gov/2017/Jul/01/2001772272/-1/-1/0/RUMWAR.PDF
I’ve been listening since drydock episode 80-something; thank you admiral, it’s been a pleasure and privilege having your voice ease my mind to sleep these past couple years.
Holy cow, I haven’t even finished the two Operation C-videos and there is already the next one. Drachs pace is incredible
We are blessed with abundance.😊
The Volstead Act (aka Prohibition) made the production and selling of alcohol illegal, but nothing was said about the consumption of alcohol. There was a huge buy before the Act took in effect, so if you had a stash for personal use, you're good. Also there was also around it like selling very expensive beer nuts but the booze was "free".
The seller could get arrested, but good old capitalism - it was still legal to purchase it. Nothing in the act about consumption either.
It also banned the transportation of alcohol.
I think a good boarding example would be when a US Navy destroyer captured a German U-boat during WW2 by boarding it after the crew tried to scuttle it
In the 1960s, a family friend was a radar officer in the US navy, and was assigned to train UK personnel on a newly installed system on one of their vessels - many UK sailors of that time didn’t drink their ration, and gave it to him. Apparently it was a very “relaxed” 6 weeks cruising around puget sound.
41:30 The next video should have a thumbnail with a giant red circle, Drach pointing at it and a title like "The Drydock gone WRONG! Gone SEXUAL! Almost DIED!" and then it's just a recap of the American visit.
I am sooooo over the pretenders' click bait thumbnails and titles. While you might not get as many clicks, when you click on a Drach video, you know you are getting well researched and presented information.
Yes there was a culture of people coming to Canada for alcohol. I grew up along the St Lawerence river in Brockville. I recall it being mentioned often, but I don't have any info on what awaited Americans when they got home. Fun fact, most towns on the river have smuggling tunnels of some description.
I live in metro Detroit. Smuggling traffic across the river from Windsor was rampant at the time. The bridge and tunnel to Canada did not open until 1929, so the smuggling was all via boat, or over the ice in winter. The smuggling was done by organized crime, so they probably would take a dim view of any freelancers trying to get a piece of the action.
One other bit about prohibition: Hiram Walker started his distillery in Detroit in the 1850s. Michigan went "dry" before the rest of the country, so he moved his distillery across the river, founding the small town of Walkerville, around the plant. Eventually, he established the "Canadian Club" whisky brand. So, there was an abundant supply of whisky, right on the river bank, for enterprising mobsters to bring across. Walkerville was annexed by Windsor some years ago, but that big distillery is still there.
Four and twenty Yankees, feeling very dry,
Went across the border to get a drink of rye.
When the rye was opened, the Yanks began to sing,
"God bless America, but God save the King!"
41:45
I like the "subtle" nod to a channel that rhymes with "Snark Bees"
Radar Screens in 1945, what did they loook like and what was the tech behind screen itself? I'm hoping you're the man for this quetion.
Now I want to know the one night at Guadalcanal where a US sailor wondered if boarding was going to be the order of the day. What if boarding WAS the order of the day?
Thanks for answering my question Drach.
The boarding question made me think: Would it maybe have been possible for the Scharnhorsts to board HMS Glorious? Germany getting a carrier by capture would have been interesting
The British would have probably scuttled her before she could be captured.
That would be an even more graphic demonstration of just how badly D’Oyles-Hughes fucked up by not sending up air patrol than her historical sinking.
for the question at 10:54, I recall seeing one US battleship being rearmed with 5"/38s in place of her 14" turrets and being a gunnery training ship.
USS Wyoming
Thanks Drach! We know which channel you focused on and rightly so. I do appreciate you speaking so naturally about the kind of nonsense that permeates the world of RUclips history-based channels.
Which channel was it that thought the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were Hippers?
Nevermind, I figured it out (it is a channel called "Dark Seas")
Thank you.
the comments during 41:30 time frame, really shows your professionalism
Thanks for answering and understanding my question. I really should have read through it one more time.
Lights, Camera, Action it's Drach o'clock on a Saturday night.
Personally I would have wanted one of the refloated battleships from the Pearl Harbor attack as the piece of sovereign US territory used for the signing.
And yeah the entire reason is as simple as it seems. One of the greatest middle fingers you can ever toss at someone is to blatantly ignore them or their achievements. Having the ceremony on a ship that was "lost" at the beginning of the war speaks volumes. Especially if it was in the middle of a fleet of shiny new ships.
addendum: I was also on board with rebuilding the WTC buildings to be (at least externally) identical replicas of the destroyed buildings.
Best Birthday Present I could get, cheers Drach 👍
42:55 I'll go even further. I made a minor but glaring mistake **during my dissertation defense** because I was trying to extemporaneously simplify a minor detail for my non-technical supporters watching. My committee very kindly waited until we were behind closed doors to point it out to me.
Thanks Drach.
Thanks Drach
Prohibition did not make possession or consumption illegal. It made production, distribution and sale of alcohol illegal. There was a rigorous trade in the sale of alcohol on ships and boats outside of the 12 mile limit, but little could be done to those who bought the alcohol so long as it couldn't be proved that they intended to resell it.
My guess is that American police would not arrest British sailors even were they sitting on the dock drinking, but they would likely escort them back to their ship if they were three sheets to the wind and taken aback.
I know you probably realize this, but be sure to check the weather forecast for your US trip. It's currently around -20° with wind-chill around -40°!
19:56 w/r/t gun caliber variety on training ships, I remember your USS Olympia video discussing the ships use as a training ship and its several partial rearmaments while being used in that capacity. IIRC it was a pretty long list of weapon types.
I mean, I think the RN would have loved to take Bismarck a prize with a boarding action, but by the time she finally stopped shooting at them, her poor hull was a twisted, wrecked funeral pyre. Heavily armored ships - with the notable exception of underwater damage -, quite simply tend to outlive the ability for humans to survive on them.
1:28 only just under a minute and a half I already choked up on my drink by that dark joke 😂
I agree that PoW was the greater loss in Force Z. Not only because I hate to see a ship that is only a year old sunk, but she was entirely modern, and able to operate in any theater. Repulse had been operating in the Indian Ocean since October. Repulse was searching for German raiders, an important job, but also an implied recognition that she did not have the AA armament to be well suited to a more active theater. The Revenge class battleships all ended up in the Indian Ocean as well, probably for the same reason,
I have read that Somerville was unhappy about having the somewhat decrepit Malaya for a flagship. Tried to put together an alt history where PoW becomes Force H flagship, Malaya and Revenge deploy to Alexandria, and QE and Valiant shift to the far east, but I couldn't get the timelines to mesh well enough for the slower battleships to get to Singapore in time.
As soon as I read the second question, my mind went straight to USS Hornet!
And I have a strict rule; Clickbait title or thumbnail? I NEVER click the video! For this reason, I have never seen a dark documentaries video.
That channel also uses an overly dramatic voice, reminiscent of the ghost hunter TV shows.
I love it whan Drach go's on a bit of a rant, it reminds me of myself 😅
If Drach is visiting the US in February, could he stop by the battleship New Jersey and see the ship being towed or sitting in dry dock?
That was my guess, along with USS Texas exiting drydock sometime in mid/late February.
@@arloallen-dipasquale7481Drach visited the ship four days ago
I have seen reference to at least one attempted boarding of a warship on the high seas, when the destroyer escort U.S.S. Buckley rammed the U-66 in May of '44, and the armed U-boat crew tried to board the Buckley. Some of them actually made it, but the DE's crew fought them off. Theodore Roscoe has an account of it in his book.
There is also the Borie-U-405 incident.
Altmark incident.
Also two crew members of the Japanese submarine I-1 tried to board the NZ corvette Kiwi with swords as the two battled but were unsuccessful.
@@johnshepherd9676
Not to mention of the capture of U-505 in June of '44
@@johnshepherd9676
That one has to be made into a film. One hell of a mutual kill
@@maynardcarmer3148 But that was unopposed. A friend of mine's uncle was chief engineer on the Guadalcanal
Agree with Nelson exiting at the top. Look what happened to Churchill…
Churchill, great leader during WWII, voted out for leftist empty promises in 1945, and re-elected in vindication in 1951 to 1955? Seems like Churchill went out like a boss.
Re: replacement of Bismarck. B was, in part, meant to be a stepping stone to greater things: a way to build design, industrial and operational competence for later vessels. It would be interesting to hear Drax's comments on this aspect.
Cap: Cpt Blighs longboat was 1/3 the lenght of Bounty. Unless you hit a depression- it’s an ideal pacific transport for the calmer aeras and inherently safer in the shallows and coral reefs than the unwieldy bounty.
Hello Drach, I just want to say thank you for answering my question. FWIW, the reason I proposed the question is that I was curious as to why the US Navy didn't solve its problem of having a limited number of large slipways capable of handling warships like Iowa and Montana by using a floating slipway. Oh and regarding a damaged ship coming into a floating drydock still having some structure, I assume that we're definitely not talking about the heavy cruiser USS Pensacola in December of 42.
The British press using letters from questionable sources to tar the reputation of Admiral Nelson reminds me of a line from the movie "Deep Impact"...
"I know you're just a reporter, but you used to be a person, right?"
Could say the same about mainstream american reporters today.
@@treyhelms5282 Sorry, I didn't know my statement didn't include American reporters simply by using a quote from an American movie spoken to a character that was an American reporter. 🤔
@@johngregory4801 LOL, naw I was just SPECIFYING american reporters to maybe give other countries reporters the benefit of the doubt.
Geez, try to be nice to other people.... smh
@@treyhelms5282 Try to be nice? I didn't say anything against you. smh
@@johngregory4801 You said: "Sorry, I didn't know my statement didn't include American reporters simply by using a quote from an American movie spoken to a character that was an American reporter. 🤔"
Quit acting stupid passive aggressive. bye.
3:46 Most towns and localities have a "public intoxication" law on the books. So yes, you could (and still can) get arrested for being intoxicated in a public place.
My pet hate for RUclips history channels is when they have about 20 minutes of commentary interspersed through 40 minutes of dramatic music and explosion noises. Especially when you have to wind the volume up to hear the commentary and wind it down to protect your ears from the music and other noises.
Omitted in the boarding action comments. The boarding of U-boats. Yes, I know he asked about battleships, but still deserves mention.
Speaking of changing guns on a battleship …… IF USS Utah had not been sunk on December 7th, 1941, would it have been viable for the US Navy to send Utah back for a refit and return to service as a battleship? Perhaps her service would have been restricted to shore bombardment and convoy escort as her speed as a pre WW1 design was not up to the demands of escorting carriers task forces. Was her sister ship USS Florida still available? Or was she already broken up?
57:03 Nelson dies at his zenith, compare to how the Duke of Wellington fared after Waterloo, not exactly a stellar career as a politician.
I was told South Dakota was Halsey's flag ship in Tokyo harbor. It was originally going to be the ship that hosted the signing. But Sodak was moved away and replaced a couple days before the event.
It’s because President Truman was a Missouri native
Thanks for answering my question!
The point about Bismarck not being intended or designed as a commerce-raider is one people need to seriously acknowledge, same with the myth of the Iowas being designed for fast AA screening duties and not to fight other battleships.
It’s also hilarious that Bismarck ended up being not only less efficient but outright inferior to the *ship she was built to counter.*
Can you do a video on operation high jump by the US with admiral Byrd
Anout Downgun ing ship, a number of us destroyers had there 1.1 replaced temporarily with 20 and .5o calibers in 42, however they were replaced with .40 mm as those became abalible. Sara was eventualy striped of her 8 inc mounts and the us had one downguned batteship that was basicaly used as a AA training ship
There was some discussion at the Battle of Matapan among British destroyer captains whether the crippled but still crewed Pola should be boarded and captured but ultimately they decided to scuttle her.
IIRC she was shortly boarded to take off the survivors
At bath iron works they use a floating dry dock to launch ships. There are train style tracks from the construction area to the floating dry dock, then they flood it and float the ship out
In 2000, my wife and I visited Bath to see where my DDG had been built, and we stopped downriver at the Maine Shipbuilding Museum. We could see two Arleigh Burke destroyers under construction in regular slipways, but our guide told us that they were to be the last; they were going to use the drydock method from there forward.
@maynardcarmer3148 I was around there at the time, junior in high school. I remember the last ship going down the ways, was quite a treat to watch from the Kennebec River Bridge. My grandmother worked there from 1989 - 2007 as a pipe coverer, and my grandfather retired from there in 1983, so the yard runs strong in my family lol
@@Sakai070
My ship, an Adams-class DDG, was laid down in 1959 and commissioned in 1961, then finally scrapped in 1993. More's the pity- she was awfully pretty.
@maynardcarmer3148 there's a decent chance my grandfather did some of the welding for your ship. He went back to the yard after 1945 and was there on and off, mostly on, until 1983. He also served on a BIW built DD, a Fletcher class.
Small world, isn't it?
Speaking of training ships, I wonder if the Japanese would have done better to use the tonnage of their training cruisers as just cruisers, and used the US written loophole for sloops to build Erie class sized training sloops.
Can you please cover more Ironcalds and Pre-Dreadnoughts in the future.
Also good Videos
Re: Birkenhead: I too am fond of the 5.5", but you didn't really elaborate on the closest competition. I think the non-RN cruisers that come closest to the towns are the Chikuma's (after they had their 1913 refit), and the Pillau's (or "when the germans learned that the 4.1" was smol and the russians learned not to order ships from their prospective enemies). Chikuma in particular I think is underrated.
I have been reading naval related books for over 50 years. At some point I think that I read that the RN County class cruisers had a design criteria for length due to the radio aerials. It might have been Friedman.
Have you come across this please?
Dave Wolfy.
I hope you are coming to see the Battleship New Jersey move.
For prohibition the law said no making, transporting, or selling. Many private clubs and individuals stockpiled enough booze to last all of prohibition. So a tipsy sailor would be fine aside a few questions about where he got the alcohol
If the American destroyers had found Hiryu after midway where there was still people on board a boarding action may ensue
44:59 - Ya har! The venerable MS Paint - verily a worthy motor ship, to be sure.
Admiral Lee, 15 November 1942, in another universe: _"REPEL BOARDERS!"_
Many here may be familiar with the concept of "Auftragstaktik", in English 'mission tactics ' or command. The leader develops the concept of operations, transmits this to junior commanders, and leaves the execution to them, allowing them to adapt to the conditions they encounter. It's usually associated with, for example, Guderian protecting Rommel from interference from Berlin in 1940.
Well, that's Nelson. That is how the French fleet was annihilated at The Nile, the most complete tactical victory in The Age of Sail up to that time, and only matched by Trafalgar. In both battles, Nelson himself was wounded fairly early and couldn't have exercised close control if he had wanted to. "Something must be left to chance", he once said, pointed to the inherent difficulty of controlling a fleet of ships with signal flags in huge clouds of black powder smoke. He would have been right at home in WW2 combined arms warfare.
As far as the Italy issue what I see is an attempt to exploit the sea control he had won at The Nile with the forces available. That he did not have something equivalent to the USMC to use was not his fault, indeed the lack of same was the biggest weakness Britain had in the war, a standing expeditionary force to exploit opportunities when they arose. One existed only briefly under a short lived Government in 1807, IIRC ( so this problem was recognized by some at the time). Only the war in Spain finally solved this problem. Sea control made it impossible for the British to be driven out. In the end, Napoleon's losses there equaled those in Russia.
So, no, there wasn't anyone who could have replaced him. Not even close.
BTW, Trafalgar was very close in concept to The Nile, use the wind to concentrate on a portion of the enemy fleet, attack the enemy flagship as soon as possible, give maximum initiative to junior commanders.
Will a lot of people get prohibition confused it was the band of the production and selling of alcohol if you had a large stockpile that you bought prior to Prohibition, you were allowed to consume that so you could be in drunk in public during prohibition so the Sailors of the royal Navy would technically be not in violation even if they had alcohol on them as long as they they didn't attempt to sell it
There was a case of a sinking u-boat crew that fought off British sailors trying to get on board.
Changing the caliber of a warship’s main armament had the additional problem of needing to change out the ammunition handling equipment.
The problem with swapping any Battleship for Bismarck is the fact, The Bismarck scenario still ends up with you being outnumbered and likely in the end being drawn into a sea battle where RN numbers overrun you.
I mean, the fact the Kriegsmarine ends up with a battleship is already suboptimal to start with-I was under no illusions about the Germans managing to do well.
@@bkjeong4302 Was that your question? If so I was not criticising the Question at all, it made sense to ask if there was a ship that would serve their raiding better. It was a good question.
Even with Yamato and Germany somehow having the logistics to sail it into operations, I think it would result in the loss of the ship due to sheer British volume of Heavy cruisers, Battlecruisers and Battleships, plus Air assets.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD
To be honest, building a battleship to use as anything other than a capital ship (as in, the ship that deals with enemy capital ships) isn’t strategically sound in the first place, and large warship surface raiders in general were a terrible idea. But it would have been way too obvious to let Germany have something actually sensible, so I restricted the selection to other WWII-era capital ships so that every single choice would end up with them investing into a new capital ship that can’t be used as a capital ship (which is the whole reason why I have a thing against WWII-era fast battleships in general-almost all of the individual vessels and every single class ended in that exact fate). The entire question was more a thought exercise on “how can the Kriegsmarine fail the least hard” by giving them something better-designed and more efficient than Bismarck, even if ultimately just as strategically pointless.
@@bkjeong4302 That is true, for someone reason Adolf and pals had to have Battleships for some reason, and ignore their only real naval assets that could get results for them- U-boats.
But yet again in a way it is good they wasted manpower and materials on vanity schemes like Wonder weapons and Capital ships they had no need of.
I mean in theory they could have built a big navy to fight the RN, still be smaller than the RN of course and the RN would likely just start mass building in response as well, I think Drachinifel already covered this in video a while back.
But the cost of building the large navy would have meant the army and air force would have been smaller as a result due to limited resources.
To that rum question. We normally do weapons turnover on the pier. Certain countries do not allow it as it is considered an armed invasion, so we do it on the boat (submarine).
The reason the USS Enterprise would have almost 0 chance of being used for the Japanese surrender ceremony is that the USS Enterprise would be combat ineffective in Tokyo Bay. The reason the surrender ceremony fleet had so many Battleships was that the Battleships were capable of defending themselves in the bay in case the Japanese changed their minds or a rogue element decided to sabotage the ceremony with an attack. The carriers were left miles away so they'd be capable of launching their aircraft, which require the ships be moving at full speed.
To which I counter. That’s assuming her air group (which may either be Night Group 90 or Night Group 55 if the former was rotated out) was even on board in the first place. Because in the week or so leading up to the surrender ceremony. A number of Japanese air bases were taken by the allies. So what’s to say that her Air Group won’t be based there. Or join the massive air parade (and no doubt leading it).
@@ph89787 They would still be risking one of the most famous ships in the fleet by putting her on a silver platter in Tokyo Bay. She's very thinly armored compared to Battleships whom could mount a stiff defense against some kind of ambush while Enterprise could not.
Q & A
I just noticed a story that just happened to be close to the top of Google when when I opened it to look something up. The story was about a Mexican/American from Three Rivers,Texas named Longoria. Private Longoria joined the US Army in 1944 & after his basic training & such he was deployed to fight the Japanese specifically in the invasion of Luzon where he proudly earned an above average array of medals before he was killed by "sniper" fire while they were "mopping up" days after the main battle. Of course, atm he was interred there on Luzon BUT after the war or a few years after the war the US is bringing home the soldiers that were KIA & asks her what she wants done with her husbands remains. AND BECAUSE OF AMERICAN RACISM AT THE TIME, she is denied use of the only funeral home's chapel for a service while also at the same time is only offered a plot segregated from the "white peoples" in the cemetary. Eventually, thanks to a Texas Senator that would end up becoming President LB Johnson this man, who paid the ultimate price for the freedom we now enjoy was FINALLY laid to rest in Arlington National Cemetery.
With the vast numbers of foreigners that came to America and became citizens, I'm not surprised by the ignorance of racism back then but incredibly pissed at such racism towards a man that paid for our freedom with his life. MY QUESTION IS.... IN YOUR OPINION, is this type of ignorance unique to Americans alone? Or are there other countries that have social segregation during this period despite the race that is thought of as inferior being staunch Patriots? Of course, I'm fully aware of the Holocaust and all but I'm meaning besides that, but during the same time frame as WW2??
Two additional downsides for the M Class submarine using a 12 inch gun instead of torpedos. It can only fire one shot at a time where as you can fire mulitple torpedos in a normal set up. It also only fires down the centerline forward, not aft or even off aixs.
@2:45, RE a drunk Royal Navy man going ashore during prohibition. If memory serves, making and selling alcohol was illegal, consuming it was not. Correct me if I'm wrong please.
You are correct. It was also legal to produce alcohol for certain activities. Communion wine for example.
Wasn't the Geman supply ship Altmark boarded by HMS Cossack's crew in a Norwegian fjord in 1940?
The real issue with floating slipways is that there really isn't any use case for them. Actual drydocks aren't that complicated to build, and the US has plenty of land. Ships, by definition, can move around on the ocean, so there isn't a need to construct them in any specific spot. You can put the shipyard wherever is convenient and then just sail the ship to where it needs to be, so you don't need to be able to move a slipway around. Additionally, the drydock isn't the only part of a construction yard, or even the majority of it. You need a whole bunch of shops to manufacture and assemble electrical components, piping systems, boilers, panels, stiffeners, outfitting, etc. And you need shipyard offices, break rooms, paint shops, steel yards, material storage, laydown areas, and a method to get all of the materials to the shipyard. Basically, the building location is only the very end of a long and complicated process of constructing a ship, and so you really need a whole bunch of infrastructure around the slipway or drydock to be able to effectively produce ships on it. You already have to go through the trouble of constructing all of that on land, with a rail connection, near a city to supply the workforce, so there really isn't any benefit to making just the slipway float.
Even slipways in shore yards 'float' to some extent. Shaft alignment at the old Vosper Thornycroft Woolston shipyard had to consider the state of the tide as the lower end of the slip would move with the tide.
About mutiny on Bounty, I was surprised by lack of any opposition from the loyalists. Even they did not join the mutiniers and agreed to leave the ship in a small launch, they did not tried anything to return the control of the ship to legit captain, Bligh. I wonder if a tiny but determined contingent of marines could stop the mutiny by simply standing fast against them. It seems that mutiniers also were not very determined to fight for the control of the ship. At least not against a determined formation of British Marines.
IMO, the simple presence of a contingent of marines could prevent the mutiny by forcing anyone think about mutiny to think twice.
Drach if a navy increased the caliber of a main gun say going from 16 inch 42 caliber to to 16 inch 50 caliber could they modify the existing fire control system or would they have to completely swap it out for a new system?
As I understand it the 14" gun as used in the KGV BB's were designed to fit in the mounts used by the Iron Duke class BBs and HMS Tiger. Was there a plan, at the time, to try to keep Tiger and one or more of the Iron Dukes around, perhaps by 'demilitarizing' them, for future use?
Tiger and most of the Dukes were scrapped per the First London Treaty. Tiger was sold in 32, as were three Dukes. Iron Duke herself had the armor stripped off, to be "demilitarized". iirc, (if anyone knows for sure, jump in here) Tiger and the Dukes were never converted to oil fuel, and never had torpedo bulges fitted. The Admiralty did retain several of the turrets, and 13.5" guns. iirc, officially, the mount interchangeability between the 13.5" and 14" was so prototype 14" could be test fired with the existing mounts. In the back of my mind is the thought that the interchangeability was designed in, so, if there were production delays in the new 14", 13.5" from inventory could be installed on the KGVs instead. According to Navweaps, 54 13.5" guns were in Admiralty inventory in 1939. enough to equip all five KGVs, if need be, but not enough to have a spare set in hand whenever a ship needed a replacement set in a hurry.
@@stevevalley7835 Some of those 13.5s were later used as coastal artillery manned by the RA. I recall reading about 13.5s at Dover engaging in counter battery fire with german artillery on Cap Gris Nez.
@@notshapedforsportivetricks2912 yes, the Navweaps article talks about three of them, supplied with supercharges, being used as railway guns near Dover. Three more were relined down to 8" as an experimental "super high velocity" gun. Four, with slides and cradles were sold to Turkey, but never delivered.
Lacking a 'pinned for post' here ? Here goes:
I have an idea/suggestion for an upload in the future.
Drach, are you a fan of the band GENESIS ? If so, it'll help. See, songwriter, bassist & guitarist Michael Rutherford's father ( William Francis Henry Crawford Rutherford, 1906-1986) served as a RN Captain- HMS NEWCASTLE among his commands. Mike wrote an autobiography called, The Living Years- in which his father inspired him to write & is a big part of...
Captain Rutherford also served as Command for Whale Island, the RN garrison in Portsmouth Harbour as well. His tenure was accomplished, while in many ways not exactly a name anyone would recognize- an RN "everyman", in a way.
If you're after any different approaches to subject matter, or just out of ideas
(😂, the very thought....) & your position as historiographer would allow for a "deeper dive" into such subject matter, where most of us couldn't, or can't delve as well as you ? Please consider such a thing ? Even if it amounted to a sort of 5 Minute Guide of sorts ? I think it'd be a worthwhile & interesting spin to feature those sort of "everyman" types throughout the world's navies through the years.
Many would easily relate, that's for sure !!
Thank you, brother !!
🚬😎👍
Had a similar policy in parts of Kentucky. But it involved federal agents looking for whiskey.
For the questions: Would the late war US and Royal Navy Battleships (Vanguard included) be able to track and shoot down a modern day cruise missile with their AA assuming the cruise missile flew within range and was something like a Kalibr that seems to fly on a fairly straight course?
Unlikely. The reaction time they would have would likely be insufficient even if it would be theoretically possible.
As a former AA officer trained on the post war version of the 40mm (m/48 aka L70) I would say yes and no. Even sub-sonjc cruise missiles are high speed targets by WW2 standards and the traverse of both guns and radar would likely not be able to track properly for a successful engagement. However they should be able to set up pretty effective fixed barrage, particularly if using proximity fuses that could do a number on missiles trying to pass through the fire.
@@Vonstabthanks! That’s what I was wondering. I figured if they could track their shell splashes 15 miles away they could track a cruise missile going sub sonic and get a barrage up/prox fuses
What was the British assessment of Germany's unfinished battleship designs after WW1?
Replacement battleship for Bismarck - refitted (in late 30’s) Hood 🤔. 🙂
That would actually be the best choice (since it spares people the need to build an entire new capital ship), but I specified something from the WWII generation(s) of battleships.
Hearing Drach go off at clickbait youtubers was something I did not think I needed to hear.
39:38 Would it be viable to have both a straight and turtle back deck armour plate, or would that be too much weight for too little benefit?
I like the correct something about prohibition. It did not ban the consumption of alcohol it banned the sale of alcohol
13:40 Was the quote about Alaska's 12" guns being as good as the old 14" has anything to do with the guns and not the shells they fire? Physics were the same and once the shells are in the air if the same shells have the same muzzle velocity they will get through the same armor, regardless of the guns fired.
In Navweaps the mark 4 guns firing mark 8 shells had similar muzzle energy as mark 11 guns firing mark 16 shells. But at 30000 yards newer shells retained a whopping 13% more energy. That and the Greenboy performance over the older shells firing from the same guns.
Hi Drach, in each pic I see of Richelieu the barrels seem to be not parallel in each turret. Is this an optical illusion or were they not parallel and spreading the fall of shot?
Since there is no pinned post for Q&A, here is my question anyway: How well balanced is a gun turret? Surely it is not as well balanced as a car wheel that can spin with hundreds and thousands of rpm without shaking itself apart, but how well balanced is it? thx
In the RN who got the rum ration?
Did a sailor have to be at sea?
Did a sailor on a shore station get the issue?
As a matter of interest, the Army still had a rum ration in the 1980s.
For WWI cruiser the Weisbaden class is probably best for the Germans IMO. 5.9" guns and a 27.5kt speed means it can evade almost anything the British are going to send to hunt it.. assuming decent coal of course.
Weren't the M class SS built using K class hulls, rebuilt ?
@ 25:05 Why didn't you consider the Indiana Sub-class of the South Dakota?
Great Theme Tune. 😄👍
I think you’ll find the prohibition had more to do with production of, and selling of alcohol . Perhaps also with consumption in public. But, if you had a wine cellar or similar goods purchased b/4 prohibition, you were free to indulge in your home
34:21 Let's consider if Somerville had Prince of Wales and Repulse on hand for the Indian Ocean raid and how much that would have increased his chances and extended all engagement scenarios.
At worst, I would think a night in the local jails' drunk tank.
I think Enterprise would have been the most deserving vessel to accept the surrender, with next in line being one of the Battleship Row survivors, but the latter may not have had enough deck space to be practical.