Casual Yugioh is BROKEN... Here’s how to fix it
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- I do not have all the answers, but I do spend too much time playing this game. Here are my ideas on how to make it better
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How to fix yugioh, casual yugioh is in a state of crisis, how to have fun playing yugioh in 2024, the best way to play yugioh, my message to konami, montage dragon, winged rhynos, griggle
Have you seen farfa's last card standing?
After 22 weeks of banning the top cut - I still locked someone out of summoning effect monsters, and another dude summoned a 2000atk dude and ripped all cards from both hands.
Yugioh players don't think casually, they build heinous warcrimes - even at a low low bar.
This is exactly what i was thinking, but mz main complain was that the more cards get banned, the games become more and more like goat format, but your point stands as well.
Beside the fact that the limited data from Farfa LCS. So, it is possible for a "good deck" never played before in that tournament. Those strategy usually is ver inconsistent after some weeks. I know players can do "their best" in this game. But with lower-power cards, at least those war crimes are more inconsistent or difficult to achieve.
They have a lot of usage data from master duel, so they kind of have points assigned already. This seems like a great idea.
I love that series! And this video was directly inspired by Farfa's video titled something like 'the state of casual yugioh'. I agree that stuff like this would happen, but I am the type of person that would love to see the warcrimes unfold! I think if the casual mode had a balancing system like league of legends or other games they could just let this stuff happen for a week and them add the problem cards to the massive banlist, but based on konami's track record of not doing anything about unfun strategies for months, maybe this is too hopeful!
I think casual players want the best of both worlds, a format that is not too restrictive where crazy things can still be discovered, but also a format where there is a healthy amount of back and forth most of the time
Yugioh has two options, either;
Make it so all Effect Monsters have Summoning Sickness so they can't activate their effects till the turn after summoning.
OR
Make Fortmats for every type of Summoning.
We do something like this already with Edison. Basically we take 20 cards from the future and throw them in the Edison card pool and use the Edison banlist, then we just change the top 10 "new cards" out in the next month to keep it fresh. I cannot stress just how odd the game becomes when you throw random boss monsters like Thunder Dragonduo or crazy tech cards like Magicians' Soul into the mix. We also found out that merely adding Blaze Accelerator Reload to the card pool, Volcanics were actually able to go consistently toe to toe with decks like Blackwing and Frogs.
I should tell my locals about this haha! I cannot tell you how many jank decks needs like one or two cards from a year later! I would love to mess around with this
As someone who also plays Magic, I've always felt that this game could benefit from a point system inspired by Canadian EDH. Each card is given a point value based on its usage rate, and then your deck is given a total combined score of all the cards in it. For Master Duel, the game can automatically match you against other players with similar total points. For Tournaments, they just need to set a maximum point total for it beforehand, and the players will budget their decks to accomodate. In casual, telling your opponent your total points can indicate what power level you're playing at. Konami already has the usage rate stats, why don't they actually do something with it?
IIRC people tried to do something like this back in the late 2010s and it didn’t really work out. The card pool in YGO is just far too deep, so you often end up with people running a stripped-back tier 1 meta engine + a bunch of c-tier staples/consistency tools.
You also have a massive fall-off in points between tiered meta deck and incredibly competent rogue deck, despite the difference being fairly small in practice. You end up with a format where Snake Eye (the unstoppable one-card combo deck) and Labrynth (the slower control deck) are replaced by, say, Plant Link and Eldlich.
There is definitely a way to sort decks in a way that lets you play against similarly powered decks - we just need someone to figure it out.
I like this because then you could argue that bad cards should be negative points
People would run yado karu
Sacred Cards/Reshef of Destruction did this as well, but those were single-player RPGs.
It makes conversations about what deck to bring to the table so much easier in EDH. Like I walk up and ask them if they want cEDH? If not, I’ll bring a power 6 or Power 4 deck.
Giving me flashbacks to that one guy who graded the yugioh cardpool with just the worst opinions imaginable.
This was Duel Links in its infancy, I’d say up until the DSOD era. It was a completely new format with new cards being added every month with a release schedule different to the TCG and OCG.
Honestly, I’m down for them to do it again in Master Duel. Make a base set of 100 cards. Its so easy to build an interesting base format. Like, lets say you have all 6 Attribute floaters. Add some targets. Now, add, like, Evigishki Merrowgeist or Blackship of Corn to out floaters. That’s already layered interaction. Add spot removal for the extra deck monsters and bosses. Round the first wave out with tribal or archetype stuff, think like Zombie Master or Salvage, and boom. Perfectly fun first wave of cards you can expand on that has depth and is casual.
The broken skills makes matters worst. Game was definitely not designed for cards to actually magically materialize when you want them, rigging entire mechanics to your favor, and all that.
@@DaemonRayge yeeee. hence why i said pre-DSOD. Skills were still good back that (lol Destiny Draw, Balance, etc) but what I wanted to highlight was not the gameplay itself, but how it created a new card pool with new releases. Ultimate Rising is different than LoB. Age of Discovery is different than Metal Raiders. etc
If we had new sets, with purposeful nuance and not “lets just reset to vanilla vs vanilla yugioh!”, i guarantee the gameplay would be awesome
My main issue is with people wanting casual formats while I very much want back and forth to but I also Wana paly pendulum decks,like yusenju is a good example,while it doesn't have to many pendulum cards admittedly it's low powered enough to have a back and forth
But most people who Wana play more casual and see pendulums instantly shut it down
For real, ive had dudes scoop when i activate one of the damn amazoness pendulums. They aint even a pendulum deck, theyre just attack boosts/a backrow pop or retrieval on attack declaration
I think the biggest problem with Casual Yugioh is that there isn't much of a homebrew format scene. Like, the only time i managed to ever get my siblings to play this game with me was when I was busy making my own homebrew format. I spent the better half of a year working on it, and in hindsight, i should've just playtested this in Tabletop Simulator (the sunk cost fallacy is a real thing, and I was still under the high of having acquired disposable income for the first time in my life).
Anyways, the homebrew format changed the following things:
1) I had carried over a revised version of the Junior Journey normal summon rules by simply making tribute summons optional rather than removing the mechanic entirely (this was to fix decks like Monarch and Floow). I didn't carry over the 1 spell or trap per turn rule or anything like that, the goal was just to open up new choices that could be made when deck building. For example, this allows ritual decks to be able to easily play Choju of the Trillion Hands, which is without a doubt the strongest ritual searcher in the game.
2) I allowed for 3+ player games. The second player gets the first opportunity to do battle, but the turn player can only attack players who have had a turn so far. The only headache this caused was that if you had set an imperm and fired it off, it would linger on every board (which is a little more difficult to keep track of since the board is now asynchronous). However, this rule change actually fixed Mystic Mine by taking terms in card effects like "neither" or "both" and having it only apply to 2 players (so if you activated Mine, you'd have to designate the player who is under its effect; this was also true for cards like Raigeki or Feather Duster since "your opponent" is singular, so you'd have to pick who's board it'd blow up). This actually meant that if you wanted to have a proper Mystic Mine in your deck to slow down every other player, you had to run Performapal Five Rainbow Magician in your deck because it used the phrase "each player."
3) Because of the previous 3+ player rule change, every player had their own 2 extra monster zones (meaning each board can produce up to 7 monsters using the 2 EMZs), and the upwards arrows on a link monster would just point to every other players' EMZs (which is just a massive buff to cards like Pit Knight Earlie). So you wouldn't be able to U link to steal the opponent's EMZ, but I did still allow for Geonator Transverser to steal cards under this ruleset. So theoretically, you could just give your opponent a random ass monster and place it in their EMZ. The reason i went with this rule change for Transverser (despite it being stupidly busted since it targets all the different opponents' EMZs) was because it'd probably balance things out a lot if people had to live in fear of their link monster being yoinked out of the EMZ at any point, not to mention that it'd heavily influence people's deck building habits. Like, there's very few towers in the game that'd just be able to ignore Transverser's effect, and if it gets stolen, it'd just be fuel your opponent's own link summon combos.
4) I sped up flip summons by allowing you to perform a single flip summon separate from your single normal summon each turn. So cards like Greed Jar basically became Painful Choice, but you would have to typically waste your normal summon to set it up (not to mention that its bad if you're going first due to how the card is designed). Like, i bought out over a dozen copies of that card while playtesting this format, lmao. And with the release of recent archetypes like Mimighoul, this rule change is probably ripe for abuse.
5) I provided a revised version of the deck master mechanic. The mechanic was limited to extra deck monsters, and I had developed a curated list of legal deck masters (the problem being that its rather hard to keep that list up to date with how fast the game pumps out new product). How the mechanic worked was that you could summon your deck master once from outside the game during your turn if it wasn't already on the field that turn (so even if its an xyz material, you couldn't resummon it since its not physically outside the game). It would be considered as if you had properly summoned it from the extra deck even though you were summoning it from outside the game (so link monsters would still have to be summoned to an EMZ, and it wouldn't proc any effects tied to specific summoning conditions [such as if you had summoned it using a synchro tuner for example] since it was still summoned without any materials), you wouldn't auto-lose the game if it leaves the field at any point, and it would return to being outside of the game if it leaves the field in any form (so they don't proc their GY or banish effects, which was why you could theoretically unban Kitkallos under the deck master mechanic since you don't get the mill effect). I just wanna say that under this ruleset: cards like Vampire Sucker or The Dark Magicians are crazy when you can just use them as generic monsters in a deck. The Dark Magicians especially allows you to play incredibly defensively if you're running both DM and DMG in your deck because you can just loop its destruction effect every turn to spam 2 walls onto the board. But in the case of Vampire Sucker, its a Change of Heart on a body and it draws cards (not to mention that Sucker still keeps her link rating, which was why maintaining a curated list was so necessary).
I think that if i were to ever return to finishing this homebrew format, i'd probably need to settle on a much smaller curated list of deck masters for balancing reasons (i'd also probably revise the Transverser rule change just so that keeping track of everyone's boards was less of a headache). The simpler I can make the rules of this homebrew format, the better. So long as i can get something out the door, others could pick it up and maybe try to work on expanding the list of legal deck masters.
Thank you so much for sharing your insight and your experience! I had not read Choju of the Trillion Hands before but it definitely seems very strong with your rule change haha! I am not familiar with a multi person format, but the one your are describing seems like such a blast with the right group of friends. I loved reading about your efforts and it seems like even if you would change the rules in the future, I am sure it was a blast navigating the strangeness that ensued based on the new cards that became viable. While I am definitely not too familiar with the modern card pool, I wish you the best of luck navigating your new homebrew format! The game truly is at its best when you are doing it with friends and laughing, it sounds like you have definitely figured this out first hand and I commend you
This is Master Duel specific but N/R Festival was the most fun event they ever did. The creativity in having to find cards that are low rarity and high utility was great! And what annoys me about Casual Mode in MD is that people use it to "test" their meta decks. I play on Ranked and have strong decks but if I want to load I to casual I'm bringing the rogue and below level decks just to jank out 😂😂😂
I’m totally with you. I love the whacky cards and cookin with them. I want more places to play than just against the one other guy at my locals who feels the same way about the huge jank pool
Even in a casual formet, it could be nice to have a few power cards. I like the idea of the speed duel limitations.....out of a pool of select powerful cards, each can only contain a certain number.
One person may chose to play dark ruler no more, while another picks lightning storm, or a third player picks accesscode.
Give people some generic powerful bombs for their deck, just not all of them
Weird thing is that Konami has voiced an openness for an aggressive banlist format called "Heart of the Underdog" except they had two major problems with it, one related to the execution and the other I think related to marketing.
1. Execution: There was no decided-upon banlist, it was all just saying effectively that if a local game store wants to run a custom banlist, they can do so. The game wasn't said to try and be at a specific power level, it was just "take a break from the current meta." It also means that as long as it isn't "currently" meta then it could be fair game, whereas a mode that aims to specifically be able to be at a brisk pace (around 7-9 turns on average, with most turns being about a minute long I'd say). A lot of even new decks are probably already at around this power level.
2. Marketing: I think that calling it "Heart of the Underdog" like, it's on-brand but it also makes the format seem like it's just a gimmick. Personally I would have much preferred if they used a format name like "Standard." The reason being that Standard as a name has an air of authority, and calling the more casual format Standard and the competitive format Advanced is something that is immediately understandable. I also think some players are turned away if the format is called "Casual" because even if the format is casual being so open about it doesn't really go across well.
As someone who has EXTENSIVELY experimented with making a truly balanced banlist in the past, here are some insights from my experience that you probably will never read (since it's lengthy and stupid):
- Banning the best stuff just means that other things will take its place that are just as bad (and sometimes even worse)
- What has mostly worked so far was banning most "bridge cards" or "payoff"/"boss monster" cards in each archetype. i.e.: having Lightsworn cards is fine if you remove the payoff, take JD away, take cards that trigger when sent from the deck do the GY away, remove Wulf and Felis, etc...
- Banning or severely crippling cards that thin your deck make top decking more fun since duels rely less on consistently opening a desirable hand. Banning ROTA, for instance makes warrior decks struggle more since they now have less ways to consistently open a certain combo. Also, most draw cards except the really bad ones HAVE to go.
- Banning very powerful traps is usually good because in a slower, less combo-focused format, powerful traps can win the game outright or incentivize decks that are "anti-fun" like stall, mill or burn.
- There is always a way to break the game irreparably and no one likes to see the deck they spent weeks cooking get obliterated by the banlist, so it's important to get it right on the first try.
- Floodgates are inherently anti-fun and once a few are discovered, they can lead to very boring matches. Even silly ones that you normally don't think about like Tornado Wall, Eisbahn, Stumbling, The Vengeful Bog Spirit, Array of Revealing Light, Level Limit Area B, etc, etc, etc...
- Cards that prevent attacking are also sometimes very unfun, like SORL, Waboku, Threatening Roar, Thunder of Ruler, etc, etc...
- Remember that every time you hit something, something else rears its ugly head.
At one point, during one of my custom banlist tournaments, a deck popped up that was essentially 40 copies of all the recruiters in the game. Without having ways to counter this, the strategy was essentially to have infinite monsters on board to act as blockers and eventually, you'd have the opponent deck out while you could infinitely recycle monsters with Jar/Pot of Avarice and not take damage with Spirit Barrier
Overall, my most successful attempt at creating a balanced banlist has been one where I essentially banned over 8000 cards. It's still in development and sometimes people still find ways to make decks that are essentially anti-fun. It's in the nature of Yu-Gi-Oh because cards don't require resources.
Good luck with this, if you ever want to make a custom banlist, EDOPRO has a very simple system where you can edit a .conf file with the cards you wish to whitelist or blacklist. Sorry for the long comment lol
And before someone says it, no, I'm not that one guy that hates modern ygo or whatever, I simply wanted to test how difficult it would be to make a format where mostly everything is viable.
if you banned over 8000 cards there's no way everything was viable because half of everything was banned.
To truly balance the game you and whoever is playing your custom format have to decide what power level you want to gamebto be at and ban accordingly. A banlist my friends and I played is around 2022 power levels without OTK enablers/Floodgates etc
and we have gotten away with a few hundred bans
@@IC-23 Everything that was left untouched was viable, I mean. Of course the cards I banned can't be viable because they aren't in the game lol
The power level is goat-ish? Between goat and Edison but without floodgates like Oppression.
@iuuuuutubi What I meant is that modern decks probably had every individual card slaughtered.
Even Vendread of all things is fundamentally too strong for Edison Era decks unless you banned all their search effects/Their Link Monster/Zombie support
but then because it's a ritual deck you minus so hard and are so inconsistent normal summon a 2k vanilla and trap cards is probably better.
I can't imagine any Wave 1 Kashtira cards are viable since even if every Lash card was banned except for Ogre he'd be a menace.
Diabellstar without any sinful spoils legal is probably also too strong since it's just summoned skull without having to get tribute fodder and doesn't use your normal summon etc
Modern cards are so fundamentally strong entire archetypes were probably banned is the point I was making.
that quite literally already exist in the form of N/R format in master duel and common charity in tcg
so true! I hope they alter the casual mode in master duel to reflect this though! Just having some consistent format to play that was updated overtime, I think would be a ton of fun
I honestly like the modern format and the speed it is. The main problem with it currently is - card starters and the price. But honestly, if u look at attendance for events it’s still doing well. When people say the game is broken, it’s an exaggeration for things that happen in it, not the game as a whole. I like retro formats too because it’s slower and u get to play old cards I like, but future fusion and krystia don’t make Edison broken just for existing. Anyways, banning half the card pool doesn’t work, it just creates a custom retro format in a sense, which is still cool, but there is no insentive for Konami to do that much work for such little gain.
I think the modern game should exist for people that like it! It is much better for competitive players to have less variables in the best decks. I am not saying to fix that because I am the wrong person to ask - quite frankly I have no idea. I was just saying that casual yugioh is in my opinion 'broken', and it is up to the community to make it fun and put it back together. I just had some thoughts on how to do that in a more offical way.
Also I know it is wishful thinking, but I think it would be cool if there was financial incentive for konami. They print jank cards in every set that are pennies! If some of those jank cards started being chase cards as well, a new audience would buy the new sets. Obviously a mutlithousand card banlist would work better on masterduel, but maybe if the format was good enough, people would play in paper and build the decks in paper.
Whenever my group wants to play casually, we'll just buy the most recent speed duel box and use the prebuilt decks with the skill. It's still really fun, but without it being too competitive.
Speed duels was a fun alternate format to help me get back into the game at a real low power level, maybe a 40 card deck version of that could be cool
This has been discussed before, even here in the Yugioh community.
As a Pokémon player, we use the Smogon Ladder System, which only consist in banning the most used Pokémon of some level of the ladder to the next one under that.
Meaning that, applied to Yugioh, will consist in the "Overused" category (just the actual ladder with all the cards), the "Underused" category (with the most used cards in the upper category banned here) and so on, with many categories under (in Pokémon we have Rarely used, Never used and Poorly used below). And the banlist would be updated regularly (and more important, almost _automatically_ meaning there is no excuse to extra work with the banlists) with basis in the data usage.
And with Master Duel automatically making usage data updates, you are so right that would be so easy, a intern could do it in half of an hour. Imagine the possibilities, the diverse metas that would form, evolve and change in each category.
We already have Speed duel, Rush Duel, and Common Charity, yet very little people play it
Common Charity is power level cut in half, as you described it, allowing only common cards
We need to make something like Smogon's tier system. Only 1 Casual format isn't enough imo.
Btw, no need to ban 5,000 cards. Ban like 2 cards in every decent archetype and a good chunk of staples and good to go. Especially now that engines get super small.
And yes, I want to play the jankiest card known to man, Ursarctic Drytron. If the pay off was good enough, it would be a fun to use silly card.
This is called Kuchen format btw. Layers with progressively harsher banlists. Currently in the lowest layer, ghost ogre and d.d. crow are some of the best hand traps available, kaijus are some of the best removal, and the best decks are stuff like abyss actor and paleo frog (no rollback but still probably strong enough to get banned soon). Ursarctic is decently playable there even though they banned nu2. They update the banlists for each layer regularly and are currently working on a new layer.
The only caveat is that this is a fanmade format that is online-only so there's nothing really set up for paper play.
Or maybe we can have multiple alternative format. Some decks can still be full power, but they're on the different class, on higher class.
@@majickman good to know.
The best way I've thought up to implement this is also the most work intensive:
1. Delete unfun cards
2. Sort every interesting card ever made by power level
3. Adjust through playtesting and enjoy
imo it would be nice if they supported most of the existing archetypes in the game, raising almost all decks to a "rogue" level while being careful not to increase the power creep of the game. This way everyone could try to compete with their favorite deck, while still leaving room for the strongest decks.
I agree! But with the format so insane I fear that this turns all the old decks into a 'how many interrupts can you set up' which is tough, because you are playing with beloved cards, but mainly in a lock down the game or be completely stopped and pass sort of way! But I definitely don't know how to fix the whole game, just an idea for a more casual version of it!
I think the problem you run into is: How far do you want to want to go? Do we want like... Edison level format but you just add a bunch of later jank cards that hardly work? Yugioh as a game is just kinda cracked in power to the point to where i think modern packfiller would have been good even a few years ago. Do we just axe entire summoning methods? I think more experimental formats from Konami is a really good idea, but their limited ladders would not give enough time for it to settle. Yugioh definitely needed rotation to stem power creep like a decade ago, as the newest cards have to beat the previous cards to sell.
Set Rotation itself is a issue because yeah it can help with power creep but consumers don't really like set rotation, It's why even in MTG the modes without set rotation are becoming the more popular modes and product on the shelves has been shifting to match this fact.
With set rotation as a concept being something Japan doesn't seem keen on at least reportedly.
Like a game demanding more money to even play it any more kinda sucks for consumers, while eternal formats just means your deck likely sucks now but it's still playable and you have the option of adding new cards to make it more playable.
Pokemon is a machine with how it gets people into the game but then throws those players away with the next rotation the game is horrible are retaining players it just funnels more in so the pokemon companies bottom line isn't hurt. with pokemon basically being the card game parents put up with until set rotation hits then they move their kid onto the Digimon TCG as that has a eternal format that is supported.
@@skormfuse I do think an important distinction for pokemon is like... a meta Yugioh deck can be worth like 10-15 the cost of a meta pokemon TCG deck at lowest rarity.
I don't know how popular the Expanded format for pokemon is either, but IIRC there is a bunch of stuff that wasn't great in its initial format that actually has the support needed to do something, which is neat.
FWIW, Yugioh very often has a fake version of what you're talking about. Yes, your deck from 2018 might still have a group of legal cards, but its definitely going to struggle against anything made past 2022. I don't know how well "older" decks do in digimon and OPTCG Imo is still too much in its infancy to see how the difference between early and current sets are.
@@Epzilon12 the Pokemon card game handles cost far better and regardless of format it should be looked at as a standard for handling card game rarities.
I also cant speak to Pokemons expanded formats because well It just isn't really supported, and card shops most of them don't have the time of space to run multiple Pokemon formats in a given week.
Digimon has power creep like yugoh but certain events run with a 'rotation' style format so casual play isn't impacted by any type of rotation.
Any game with power creep is going to have that issue of new stuff being better but for many people just having the deck they like be playable is enough and since yugioh is a eternal format we also see support regularly so it's just more friendly from a consumer stand point.
The fact super meta cards cost a arm and leg is all the fault of Konami and is a flaw of how they handle rarity, but if you want to play casual or locals even after say being a way for years you can come back maybe buy a few cards and often you can just play and have fun.
It's also easier to organize lower power level games with friends since you can follow the same banlist for rogue play without issue. MTG Commander format for example is a eternal format that is fully play group curated.
They even use a power scale system which has flaws but gives everyone at the table the rough idea of the power of the decks so everyone plays a deck around the same level.
And Digimon having events with specific sets would likely be the only way for Yu-gi-oh to handle a set rotation keep it as something for higher end competitive play while at a local level use the eternal format.
Since it would only make the competitive players already buying new cards need to keep up.
This is true. I am bias toward 2010-2013 yugioh so I might not reflect the wider player base. But I imagine a format where cards like bergram are the JD of insect decks. Much less 'starters' that set off a chain of events, and a powerlevel where it is not too fast to play utility trap cards. It is a huge undertaking to balance it correctly, but I kinda love the idea of everyone rushing to break a casual format all at the same time. Once it settles, gut the problem decks a bit more, and then a bit more. Also maybe someone has to make the tough call about pen and links but I don't play with them enough to be that person
@@skormfuse
I don't necessarily think set rotation would help *now*. Even their trickle down sets (like duel links, speed/rush) eventually get their doses of power creep that can make the game seem unrecognizable.
I don't even know what a yugioh banlist that tries to make the game back and forth would look like (like setting a power level at a table to be extremely low). Yugioh players are warcrime enthusiasts. In any case, I'm 100% down for them trying, as It would be cool if everyone's favorite pet deck could shine "somewhere".
Actually, there have been a bunch of projects to work with this! The most notable was MBTs Rotation format.
Alternative formats are not too difficult to setup as well. I actually have experience with this through the old rotation revolution discord. If you want, I can help you set up a whitelist that focuses on these kinds of things!
Rotation was so cool! MBT is my favorite person. But as someone who loves scavenging through the cardpool, I aways thought a rotation format felt a little too restrictive! this could be a bad take, but I always love when the decks/techs arise from nowhere, and there is this ability to try and make bad/forgotten stuff shine in a new light!
And I truly appreciate your offer! I don't think I am going to take on this project quite yet, but maybe in the future! People's responses have been very cool to read through! I am glad so many people care about this silly game
@@Zuczid Yeah! There were two little sparks of that with Lesbian Turbo and Charmerbox, but I fully understand what you mean.
And of course if you ever want to circle back to that project idea, I'll be here in the comments :)
Have a lovely day!
Hey Zuczid, did you see MBT’s Montage Dragon video? We need to see you play the campaign!
I did! I am smiling the whole time! Maybe I will try to play it with Macro or Karpath! xD
I think the biggest failure with making other formats is to remember while people want to play a more casual less meta mode they do want to play modern yugioh as generally if people want to play further back than that they will play the existing legacy formats. and on top of this even cards produced for midrange or rogue level decks are designed with modern yu-gi-oh in mind.
So you will still need cards like ash, Nib and such to keep decks in check my view for any such format is to look at competitive pokemon and OU format it's lower power level than Ubers the highest tier but it's that sweet spot for competitive play to the point it gets more attention over the Ubers format despite that one being the most 'competitive'.
Second would be to look at Dark Magician and blue eyes, and have those at full power be the baseline for your format, not the best deck but playable to a point it can win, and the additional support each archetype gets also gives you a indication to the power creep such a format should go through over time. as these are the casual decks we know fans of the anime and game want to play at a casual level but they tell you about the type of cards your format needs.
Master duel itself has proven than these decks even at the lower power are oppressive you don't have things like Handtraps, Kaiju, board breakers, GY and backrow hate and the like since so much modern support is built around those elements existing.
Excellent video and I really like how you show the idea.
In addition to what you said, I like to add that, adding a causal mode will make the game easier to follow, play and enjoy. It's not a secret that competitive/meta is complicated - I would say, frustrating and time-consuming for a game that has the casual element.
So, please, Konami, you have the solution here.
I've been thinking for awhile that there needs to be a tier system for all the archetypes to keep them within their respective power levels. Instead of trying to power down the strongest decks, let them have full reign in the highest tier where they can only fight each other instead of punching down on less competitive decks.
The problem with this, or any casual formats, is they would all have to be fan driven as Konami barely has any interest in trying to balance the main competitive format, much less multiple casual one's. For tiering formats, I think the best place to start would be a the bottom. Have the lowest tier be comprised entirely of non-archetypal cards or archetypes with only two members (looking at you Materiactors). Once that's established start building and testing additional tiers from there.
If you serve up an idea for this, I'd play it
If you're looking for feedback for such a format, I'd discuss
7:12 Ok well Beargram is actually played in ragnaraika beetrooper. It's not meta for sure but you can bring it to a locals and do well.
I had that sort of experience with the Battle Packs back in the day, from 1 to 3 it starterd great and felt less good every entry. Pack filler was getting pretty good though so I always imagined they were planning on waiting for enough new pack filler to build up so that BP4 did not look too much like Goat or Edison days and could be its own new and refreshing thing that would allow "Soul Scissors" or "Punch-in-the-Box" some fun. Still waiting but at this point I should make a list already of like 100 or 200 cards and build from there.
I think this casual format would work well as a commander format as well. So many semi-jank, OP cards would be balanced by only having one copy per deck
One of my favorite archetypes is battlin boxer and it was pretty decent when it came out. Would love to play that again. Also Aroma but with all the broken plant support i think a lot of the cards would be banned haha
I love the tri-type new plant cards! i think stuff like that in the casual mode would be SO cool! I think most of the new cards would be too good, but with a big card pool, giving all the lesser-played types some powercards would be so much fun to deckbuild with. Also that would be cool to play with the boxers!
Cube Draft format is also a great place for these cards to shine
I've recently gotten into Domain format. It's basically MtG's Commander format for YuGiOh. It's intended for 4 Player Games, so even if someone is playing a better deck, everyone can target into them and that kind of balances itself out.
Yugioh Commander is a channe based on this format
i think if they ban all the ultra and secret rare (maybe some super rare) cards from modern core sets and secret rares from side sets that would probably make a cool banlist
I really love the casual.
-Delete XYZ
-Delete Links
-Delete Synchro
-Delete Fusion
-Nerf Decks that Do not use the extra deck
Only Bleed the extra monsters slowly.
I've heard people complain that goat format is the same X cards in every deck. As if modern isn't the same thing. Everyone's running the same 15 handtraps.
Even master duel
It's either a snake eye and/or horus build
@@iowa89357 before that, every deck has the same 6 cards at least, no matter the deck. 3 max c and 3 ash.
A pauper format would be cool same as mtg only cards printed as commons etc
Yeah, konami won't add support for it until the community does some heavy lifting. That being said - we could always start a casual yugioh discord server and get a website set up with card pool & ban list. We just need someone to make videos about it to get the word out ;)
There are so many lower power archetypes that missed their shot at being played.
A format with stuff like penguins, star seraph, subterror, blue-eyes, dark magician where setting traps is still viable sounds awesome. Basically a little over Edison format or maybe HAT format power levels.
Then getting people to actually agree to the list of cards and adopt the format is another issue.
I feel like an easier way rather than banning 5000+ cards would be to take a previous era as a base and add more cards to it
imagine edison but with got stuff like flamvell lady and cataclysmic sunburner to facilitate pure flamvell builds
manticore of smashing as a standalone boss monster to splash in anything running fissure, or like you said infernalqueen salmon to enable some weird fish monarch build
even entire archetypes that came up later but were just too weak to compete like jurracs or steelwarm could be options
This way they wouldn't have to consider what to ban and what to keep in a 5000+ card purge, + they could also think on what to add from our modern times to say "Ok blackwing is already strong so we're not adding this dark support card, let's add union hangar instead so union decks can compete evenly"
then just keep adding slowly but surely to everyone can have their piece of cake
let the formats go from 2010 to 2015 to our modern times so most of the neglected decks or cards trought history can have a time on the spotlight, let appliancer be a tier 1 after finishing trought the chemicritter format
This is a good idea!
As a Goat format player (Edison is too OP for me, how is Judgment Dragon allowed to exist?) I always had this idea of "Goat+" which is goat with some new janky/not OP cards dropping every now and then to keep the format refreshing.
I really liked Farfa's last card standing idea even though he hated it once the power level of his creation actually got low lol
Like you mentioned, the reason Edison is fun is the low power level. The last thing I want is new cards added to powercreep it.
I'd prefer a new start from zero like Duel Links did in 2017. Speed Duel was supposed to be similar but Konami really ruined the balance.
Agreed.
They need to place more cards in forbidden and limited, as well as some semi-limited.
I play casual yugioh @ my card shop. The decks are still strong but we mostly just throw our engines at each other until someone wins 😭. Cool idea but would be a nightmare to implement.
I wished that konami would simply reboot the game and promise to not fuck it up again
i mean a true reboot not a whole ass new game like rush duels and speed duels (i despise how rush duels work drawing back your entire hand is so incredibely lame it takes away so much tension from the game)
like you keep the rules and mechanics mostly the same and just adjust them a little to make things like fusions worth playing rerelease your most iconic cards and promise to never let the game reach the state of modern yugioh
What? Rush duels are fantastic! There is still a TON of tension. You don’t just “draw your entire hand” you gotta build your deck properly to be able to take advantage of that.
@@megaspacewaffles I get that its okay if you like it i just think that it takes Way the resource management aspect wich is the whole reason i play this game
@@MandyCandy13 how so? I’m actually curious to discuss this!
What about the resource management?
@@megaspacewaffles The stakes feel higher if your resources are limited the game becomes more grindy and intense while the game will not be as explosive it truly feels like a battle to have such limited resources
this is why i prefer older yugioh over modern yugioh you dont have that aspect on modern yugioh modern yugioh is about deckbuilding and combos older yugioh is more based on strategy adaptability and resilience obviously neither are wrong i just like this style of yugioh better
also it's very cool to save your cards to the perfect momment
i essentially just really like intense grindy games
@@MandyCandy13 Rush duels are very grindy. There aren’t power cards like raikeki. If you’re in the lead you’re not going to draw 5 cards since your hand is probably full.
Drawing 5 puts you into a top deck war where you can actually do MORE than just flip a board breaker.
You can build a board, maybe take out a few of your opponents monsters and then go back to them. Rush is extremely back and forward.
ban every omni negate, ban every non architype locked handtrap(for example light spellcaster synchro decks can get effect veiler), ban every floodgate, ban every card that banishes face down. ban runick stun. See what happens.
I can't believe Skull Servant let himself go like that. Sucks to see your idols wasting away.
what if we banned all monsters that have a quick effect
RIP kuriboh
As a winged rhynos enjoyer I would be hesitant haha But in this hypothetical format most all of the good ones would have to go
You should really watch last card standing, yeah ^^ It's a relatively serious attempt at it, at least once you get into the double digited lcses.
I watched a lot of these as they were coming out haha. I loved when they got very barebones! I know farfa in particular likes the game a bit faster than me but he definitely inspired me to make this video!
Ive been saying this for years and its really easy actually.
1. Ban all monsters with negation effect from the extra deck and monsters that cannot are uneffected by other card effect.
2. Ban all handtraps.
3. Ban archetypes. Or ban their starters.
4.Limit counter traps with negate (Solemns) to 1 per copy.
5. Re limit the blow out and flood gate monsters/spells/traps to 1(From vanitys fiend and skill drain to mirror force and torriental; thrust ,talents ,blizzard , duster , droplets , chalice, crossout)
6. MR7 Every card and or effect can only be activated once per turn unless specefically written on the card and generic supporters:Recruiters(monsters who search on destruction, typically from field by battle like mystic tomato).(this kills ftks)
7. Finish creating the charmer/channelers support.(More generic support will aid random boss mons)
8.
From here every major issue is basically dealt with.
As there will not be any negates to spam why would anyone spam monster on turn 1, and with a limited bit of resourse, even with afded consistency the threat of losing your cards will be so strong it would be more advantageous to play concervatively, and lastly without the archetype you will have to find cards that can play into your combo rather than card made for it. It becomes a game of tech card along side the good stuff dot deck.
How would we actually get started on this - just go pack by pack and ban everything but the bottom 20 cards that are funny enough to be allowed in?
I feel you’re kind of missing the point with casual might only real change that I would say is for changing the name casual to unranked and I feel that right there could save so many people so much time because casual just implies relaxing mode where as unranked is where it is, but also changing the unranked mode of the game to better fit and entirely different way of playing isn’t really going to help that many people because there’s just people that want pet decks and some of them aren’t even really in the same era of Yu-Gi-Oh other people like there is also just people one to test out cards or to see if they could understand the whole way of current Meta decks.
What I feel you’re trying to say is you want different modes and I also want different modes as well. I think different modes would be very healthy for the game.
The trouble is not "Konami can't", but "Konami doesn't want to". Like what you said in the video. They already did it multiple times in Master Duel, and never made them permanent. Because mixing both broken and trash cards is their marketing strategy. It is like how a dev manages a PAY2WIN game. They mix it on purpose, so Bad-rich players can spend more money on the broken decks. Bad-rich players with broken decks can easily win against a weaker deck, even the weaker deck user is good. This will encourage bad-rich players to buy more and more broken-expensive cards, because this gives them the illusion and feeling like "good players", or they just enjoy winning.
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Some people may say, "I and my friends tried it, but it never worked". Bro please, don't compare you and your small community (no offense). Konami is a giant company, and with Master Duel, I believe they have better and more detailed data about the Win rate and Play rate of cards, even if compare it with TCG or OCG. They already did some events with lower power cards, and they're almost good. But because it usually only lasts for 2 weeks. We don't have time to evaluate or improve the format. If they make it permanent, I think it is possible to improve the format and make it better.
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This is very possible to do. But Konami is just too afraid to stop using their marketing strategy, which they already use for fuckin' 25 years.
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Anyway, I still believe those "Janky cards" are more suitable to call as "competitive format". Because when looking at modern decks now, and how strong they are. Sometimes you don't even know whether the players is real good, or the decks are too good.
Preach brother
Hear me out. What if they limit every single cards to 1 even the normal monster!
If you say any of this on a yugioh discord or any community at all theres gonna be people who will deny your right to have this objectively (AND morally) correct opinion, simply because they're selfish and don't like people simply having fun and enjoying a card game because the cards look nice instead of playing them because they're powerful
yugioh keeps getting worse and worse and worse. its so sad. you literally cannot play any deck even in casual.
To make yugioh balanced either everything would have to be broken or the game have no cards 😂
The thing is there is only balance in context. The idea of using usage rates to match up against players with cards with similar power level could very well be an actual solution!
Day 12
Please Toon in Edison
yugioh is basically play meta or dont play at all
it's so bad..
is this in any way feasible? its clear you do not understand how work intensive creating the ban list would be.
if you want to prove the validity of your idea. create the format yourself. create a format you want and if you prove that its fun? great but as it stands now it's not a very good idea
It’s a good day in the germany county.
No cards above 1% playrate allowed lol
2:10 That's me playing cyberse
8:25 👋👋
fire vid
Im guessing you're on vacation?
taking some time off! I will be back!
Could just change the rules so that the power difference between cards is negligible.
New Master Rule just dropped:
-players start with 12000 LP
- lvl4 and lower Normal monsters can special summon for free and 5 and higher can normal without tribute.
-Master Rule 3 Pend summons
-Cards cannot be removed from the GY until turn 3 and cannot be removed from banishment until turn 5.
-Normal Traps can also be chained from the hand to opponent's activated effects (if possible) during your turn.
-Quick-play Spells can also be chained from the hand to opponent's activated effects (if possible) on your opponent's turn.
This would solve a few different issues. Normal summons would be stronger turn 1 and 2. Handtraps would lose power since it's unlikely you will die turn 2. Normal monsters that aren't specifically Loci are now playable. Pends can get an early game ramp at the risk of having to run scales. GY and Banish changes prevent unga bunga you die combo decks from truly popping off until later in the game. Finally, Normal Trap and Quick-play changes give more usefulness to generic normal traps and quick-plays while taking power away from decks that already have the ability to shotgun spell/traps (i.e. Labrynth, Traptrix, Runick, etc.) The possible blowouts from the spell/trap changes would make conserving resources useful again and would also encourage having a more even spread of spells, traps, monsters.
I actually think these rules make the game more frustrating tbh.
@@megaspacewaffles Fair. The moral is Konami can change rules at any time to solve issues with general gameplay and have done so in the past.
Woo ancient leaf format goes crazy! (you'd definitely have to ban this card)
The big issues here is the level 1 or lower monsters can be special summoned for free. That defeats the balance of those cards. Yugioh is BALANCED around one normal summon, with cards specifically designed to give you multiple, look at Morganite.
What would cards being removed from the GY have to do with balanced? That takes away possible ways to interact with your opponent, instead of having to correctly learn what cards to banish you take away all that skill. If your card gets banished you need to pivot your plays down a different combo line.
Another broken idea is the normal trap rule. Why would we WANT traps to be free from the hand. Traps that do that typically have HEFTY costs, Imperm requiring no monsters, and Red Reboot come to mind. They're balanced around having to be set.
This is like almost the exact opposite of what anyone wants
It exists already, but you have to make the banlist. It’s called heart of the underdog. Konami is not going to ban 5,000 cards for you, ridiculous request,
Have you try playing with common and rares only
NR FTKs do exist and you don't have as powerful handtraps to prevent them from happening.
@@Epzilon12 its not perfect, but it is a different and slower format