This was lowkey encouraging for me because our church is nothing like this article describes. Sometimes I wonder why we’re not growing, but I’m a pastor, not an entrepreneur. I don’t want anyone coming who God hasn’t sent. I’m content serving our small, intimate family of believers. Thanks for telling some hard truth!
I don’t think Ive ever watched your videos, I’m glad this came across my screen 20:24 I’ve been a member of a church for a year now and things aren’t adding up to keep it short I’m paying for this membership that membership and during tithing they always say, Jesus loves a cheerful giver… 🤦🏾♀️ idk I have recently told myself I would like to discover church biblical to have a better understanding of true church🥰 46:46 So this goes back to my original thought are we supposed to join church houses?? This message is so good man❤❤
It has been so refreshing to find others who believe as I believe as it can be a very lonely place to have such beliefs and feel like a black sheep outside the flock. You've probably heard the accusations and know how one can be made to feel like they are a rebel, schismatic or worse yet, a heretic. Keep making the videos as you are blessing many.
This channel has really blessed me. I feel you both have such refreshing takes & it validates a lot of concerns I’ve had about American Christianity and how this ideology is seeping into other Christian communities (Latin American churches). I didn’t realize I wasn’t subscribed, I always assumed this was a really big channel. I have a feeling you will be soon (for the right reasons and intentions of course!)
How come there are 66 books in the Bible yet vast amount (thousands upon thousands) of books have been written about or to expound upon the Bible in expositories, commentaries, etc? Is the Bible not enough for us to get our knowledge and wisdom from? Or Are we are relying on other men to tell us what the Bible wants from us other than the Holy Spirit from His own word? Writing books is definitely a BIG BIG business.
@@churchdropout Unfortunately the Bible doesn’t contain all knowledge. A cure for polio or how to make insulin, for example, would not be found in the Bible. We need other information besides what is in the Bible.
@@churchdropoutJesus did NOT write the Bible. Church people wrote it. That’s why the Catholic Bible is different from the Protestant Bible, Mormon Bible, Jehovah’s Witness Bible etc. King James wrote his own Bible. Jesus did not write any of the Bibles you read.
I was responding to the previous comment in terms of the industry of Christianity. How many versions do we need was the point. I probably could have made that clearer.
Especially when half of the congregates are renters or on section 8, and/ or on food stamps! the money that’s being raised in these churches is not going back to the people to improve their lifestyle and living situations 😭
Pastor-prenuer. That's the term the writer of this article was referring to when describing Pastor CEO's/Entrepreneurs. Thanks Allen and Lisa. Blessings.....
@@churchdropout Sure! This is what you'll hear our African brothers and sisters use when referring to their church CEO's in the African church community. It's really crazy.
@lisaheinen5315 Which leads to the question- Why do so many people give to wealthy preachers and not the needy as this verse was intended to mean! I believe they feel they need to give to the rich as they are given promises to be rich like them, get a 'healing' etc etc - what a pity all those donations (or food purchases, etc) arent given to the poor families down the road etc, instead...
@ good question. Sometimes I think people are naive and think giving money to the church will help the needy. That’s how I used to think. Also there is the false teaching of the prosperity gospel. It takes the verses before the one I quoted here and teaches people that if they give bountifully that they will receive an even more bountiful reward. Which is unfortunately a very popular teaching these days, and I believe it’s dangerous. It takes away from the true gospel, and only serves to make these preachers more rich and powerful. The church needs to get back to preaching the pure and simple truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
@ I was totally shocked to hear that Protestant churches make over 1 trillion dollars a year, and for some reason people still go to bed hungry in the US every night.
False teaching is a huge reason. Also a misplaced identity and misunderstanding of what we are meant to do and be. The Church exists for the world to Gods glory.
My problem with the modern church and, moreover, church expansion is the incessant need to acquire more real estate. At what point do we realize that with modern technology, services can be streamed to the masses while still investing in the things that eternally matter, like discipleship, growing the believer, equipping them for the great commission, and serving the physical needs of those who truly have the need?
Your interview with Toam Wadsworth on the Biblical teachings on the purpose of church assemblies provides an alternative tot he business model. Wondered if you'd mention it. Not directly, but your views are sympatico. I'd love to discuss this podcast wi9th some ministers and seminary teachers I know.
The last church we went to (that we were members of) it was $33 per person to attend. They would give us a printout for the new year on what it cost per person and we "pledged" to cover that cost (aside from tithes and offerings). Of course, you didn't have to, but were expected to.
I grew up going to a Brethren Assembly of believers. I don’t believe they were a business. There was 2-3 collections on a Sunday morning, one for the upkeep of the church building, one for the needs of the believers assembled, and a special one once a month for the work of the travelling brothers and missionaries abroad. The people of the church kept it running by volunteering in some way, nobody was paid.
I recently left the traditional business church. I got burnt out with all these activities and rarely saw any outreach being done as It pertained to preaching the gospel. I even took a Ministers in training course. I learned so much to how my former church operated. The pastor said church is a business and that they purposely set up the worship services to manipulate emotions and keep people’s attention span. I started to see my church for what it really was! An entertainment center. I was so tired of coming to church and never opening my Bible or learning the deeper things of God. Fellowship felt like a social club. Needless to say I resigned from that church after I saw through the smoke and mirrors. I’m now attending a grace assembly and I’ve never been so joyful to be around people who are all there for one purpose and that’s to see souls saved and saints edified. We don’t teach tithes and we don’t follow the traditions of today’s modern church. We come together to fellowship as one body without the entertainment and manipulation.
Yep, shocking Bro! There's good reason why the Apostle warns us of the perils of loving money, I'm still shocked at the appeals, verging on threats for church members to keep up the tithing when the Covid restrictions were being implemented, whatever we thought about government handling of the crisis, it very much seemed that many of these Churches/ Businesses were actually more concerned about the $$$ then issues of health and safety. And that much of the pushback against government was perhaps more about economics than supposed restrictions on freedom.
I live in Dallas. I said I wanna do a documentary about churches particuarly in the hood. Dallas,Tx is considered the CAPITAL of megachurches according to some report. I was visiting some small church one day in whats called Oak Cliff. Om my way I had thoughts. There were 6 to 9 churches on the same STREET.😮 HOW? The only explanation is what you said. The church is an industry. So much money to be made. Nobody " serving," the same thing. Its consumerism and sorry but there is so much money to be made which is why people like these random pop up shop ministries exist on youtube and become popular. 😊 These people see gullibelness and money is on the table. Oak Cliff 8n Dallas has Potters House, Antioch, Friendship West, FGHT, Concord, IBOC ( biggest fraud) and Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship and Gateway church in Southlake. Its an industry here in Dallas. Its crazy. Can you do a topic on parsonages? I found out about this and found most of these Dallas pastors brag about how hard they work but live in parsonages. - Thanks
This was lowkey encouraging for me because our church is nothing like this article describes. Sometimes I wonder why we’re not growing, but I’m a pastor, not an entrepreneur. I don’t want anyone coming who God hasn’t sent. I’m content serving our small, intimate family of believers. Thanks for telling some hard truth!
Amen!🙏
This is encouraging to me, that there are real pastors out there somewhere.
@@mobetta3456 I looked at his playlist on RUclips... a real pastor doesn't listen to Prince. 🤢🐺
Keep up the excellent conversations Church Dropout !
I don’t think Ive ever watched your videos, I’m glad this came across my screen 20:24 I’ve been a member of a church for a year now and things aren’t adding up to keep it short I’m paying for this membership that membership and during tithing they always say, Jesus loves a cheerful giver… 🤦🏾♀️ idk I have recently told myself I would like to discover church biblical to have a better understanding of true church🥰 46:46 So this goes back to my original thought are we supposed to join church houses?? This message is so good man❤❤
Thanks you for sharing and watching. I understand the feeling and know the feeling very well. Keep seeking Jesus. Grace and peace to you.
It has been so refreshing to find others who believe as I believe as it can be a very lonely place to have such beliefs and feel like a black sheep outside the flock. You've probably heard the accusations and know how one can be made to feel like they are a rebel, schismatic or worse yet, a heretic. Keep making the videos as you are blessing many.
I thank you both. God’s Blessings continuously 🙏🏾
THISSSSSSS ISSSS THE ONEEEEE!!! Coming from a PK, sir- maam, thank you for saying this !
🙏
1.2 mil industry and people are yet still in impoverished.
This is the main point. Crazy!
1.2 TRILLION, not million or billion
@@cgvccourtneyomega6166 typo, but none the less that is sad to know. Turning the house into a "den of thieves".
This channel has really blessed me. I feel you both have such refreshing takes & it validates a lot of concerns I’ve had about American Christianity and how this ideology is seeping into other Christian communities (Latin American churches). I didn’t realize I wasn’t subscribed, I always assumed this was a really big channel. I have a feeling you will be soon (for the right reasons and intentions of course!)
Thank you for the kind words ! We appreciate the sub. So glad we are able to speak to what so many of us are feeling! Blessings!
How come there are 66 books in the Bible yet vast amount (thousands upon thousands) of books have been written about or to expound upon the Bible in expositories, commentaries, etc? Is the Bible not enough for us to get our knowledge and wisdom from? Or Are we are relying on other men to tell us what the Bible wants from us other than the Holy Spirit from His own word? Writing books is definitely a BIG BIG business.
Absolutely. Think about how many versions are produced, revised, etc each year? It’s absolutely horrendous.
@@churchdropout Unfortunately the Bible doesn’t contain all knowledge. A cure for polio or how to make insulin, for example, would not be found in the Bible. We need other information besides what is in the Bible.
@@churchdropoutJesus did NOT write the Bible. Church people wrote it. That’s why the Catholic Bible is different from the Protestant Bible, Mormon Bible, Jehovah’s Witness Bible etc. King James wrote his own Bible. Jesus did not write any of the Bibles you read.
I was responding to the previous comment in terms of the industry of Christianity. How many versions do we need was the point. I probably could have made that clearer.
@@churchdropout Do you realize that Jesus himself didn’t write any books?
A trillion dollars plus? Something is very, very wrong.
Absolutely. It’s astonishing.
Especially when half of the congregates are renters or on section 8, and/ or on food stamps! the money that’s being raised in these churches is not going back to the people to improve their lifestyle and living situations 😭
Pastor-prenuer. That's the term the writer of this article was referring to when describing Pastor CEO's/Entrepreneurs.
Thanks Allen and Lisa. Blessings.....
That’s crazy. We making stuff up now. Thanks for clarifying.
@@churchdropout Sure! This is what you'll hear our African brothers and sisters use when referring to their church CEO's in the African church community. It's really crazy.
Outrageous.
2 Corinthians 9:7 “Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”
Amen.
@lisaheinen5315 Which leads to the question- Why do so many people give to wealthy preachers and not the needy as this verse was intended to mean! I believe they feel they need to give to the rich as they are given promises to be rich like them, get a 'healing' etc etc - what a pity all those donations (or food purchases, etc) arent given to the poor families down the road etc, instead...
@ good question. Sometimes I think people are naive and think giving money to the church will help the needy. That’s how I used to think. Also there is the false teaching of the prosperity gospel. It takes the verses before the one I quoted here and teaches people that if they give bountifully that they will receive an even more bountiful reward. Which is unfortunately a very popular teaching these days, and I believe it’s dangerous. It takes away from the true gospel, and only serves to make these preachers more rich and powerful. The church needs to get back to preaching the pure and simple truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
@ I was totally shocked to hear that Protestant churches make over 1 trillion dollars a year, and for some reason people still go to bed hungry in the US every night.
False teaching is a huge reason. Also a misplaced identity and misunderstanding of what we are meant to do and be. The Church exists for the world to Gods glory.
Why are we surprised. Did Christ not warn that false prophets shall arise and deceive many ? Hello 👋
My problem with the modern church and, moreover, church expansion is the incessant need to acquire more real estate. At what point do we realize that with modern technology, services can be streamed to the masses while still investing in the things that eternally matter, like discipleship, growing the believer, equipping them for the great commission, and serving the physical needs of those who truly have the need?
Your interview with Toam Wadsworth on the Biblical teachings on the purpose of church assemblies provides an alternative tot he business model. Wondered if you'd mention it. Not directly, but your views are sympatico. I'd love to discuss this podcast wi9th some ministers and seminary teachers I know.
Appreciate it. I’d love to hear the outcome of that conversation!
The last church we went to (that we were members of) it was $33 per person to attend. They would give us a printout for the new year on what it cost per person and we "pledged" to cover that cost (aside from tithes and offerings). Of course, you didn't have to, but were expected to.
@@ledko5216 What in the world?!!!! 😮
Good grief. 🫣
I grew up going to a Brethren Assembly of believers. I don’t believe they were a business. There was 2-3 collections on a Sunday morning, one for the upkeep of the church building, one for the needs of the believers assembled, and a special one once a month for the work of the travelling brothers and missionaries abroad. The people of the church kept it running by volunteering in some way, nobody was paid.
When we had our Thanksgiving dinner. An associate pastor stated if you didn't bring a dish you eat last😢
What!? Wow. Run
Oh man, now in my mid-70s, I must be getting so bad because that makes me laugh, it's so stupid and anti-biblical.
"...aims to make disciples of Jesus Christ"...this is the purpose of the church. Period!
Come on bro.
I recently left the traditional business church. I got burnt out with all these activities and rarely saw any outreach being done as It pertained to preaching the gospel. I even took a Ministers in training course. I learned so much to how my former church operated. The pastor said church is a business and that they purposely set up the worship services to manipulate emotions and keep people’s attention span. I started to see my church for what it really was! An entertainment center. I was so tired of coming to church and never opening my Bible or learning the deeper things of God. Fellowship felt like a social club. Needless to say I resigned from that church after I saw through the smoke and mirrors. I’m now attending a grace assembly and I’ve never been so joyful to be around people who are all there for one purpose and that’s to see souls saved and saints edified. We don’t teach tithes and we don’t follow the traditions of today’s modern church. We come together to fellowship as one body without the entertainment and manipulation.
Wow. What a story. Blessings to you!
Don’t remember reading about “church entrepreneurs” in my Bible.
It’s in the business standard version. 😂
@@churchdropout 😂😂 good one.
Yep, shocking Bro! There's good reason why the Apostle warns us of the perils of loving money, I'm still shocked at the appeals, verging on threats for church members to keep up the tithing when the Covid restrictions were being implemented, whatever we thought about government handling of the crisis, it very much seemed that many of these Churches/ Businesses were actually more concerned about the $$$ then issues of health and safety. And that much of the pushback against government was perhaps more about economics than supposed restrictions on freedom.
Come on now. Truth.
Pastors should be watching these videos🤦🏾♂️
🙏
12:12 Pastors would never... Collecting the Tithe is much higher.
I had a dream there was a ten dollar cover charge to get into the church building at the door. There was a door man.
Lol
I live in Dallas. I said I wanna do a documentary about churches particuarly in the hood. Dallas,Tx is considered the CAPITAL of megachurches according to some report.
I was visiting some small church one day in whats called Oak Cliff. Om my way I had thoughts. There were 6 to 9 churches on the same STREET.😮 HOW? The only explanation is what you said. The church is an industry. So much money to be made. Nobody " serving," the same thing.
Its consumerism and sorry but there is so much money to be made which is why people like these random pop up shop ministries exist on youtube and become popular. 😊
These people see gullibelness and money is on the table. Oak Cliff 8n Dallas has Potters House, Antioch, Friendship West, FGHT, Concord, IBOC ( biggest fraud) and Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship and Gateway church in Southlake. Its an industry here in Dallas. Its crazy.
Can you do a topic on parsonages? I found out about this and found most of these Dallas pastors brag about how hard they work but live in parsonages. - Thanks
6:46 Tell that to the Vatican