Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood - Heart and Soul in Mediocrity
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- Опубликовано: 9 май 2021
- Sonic Chronicles is a very weird game, isn't it? It only took one attempt for SEGA to steer clear of the mere idea of a Sonic RPG.
It's a shame too because this game actually has some cool ideas.
Oh well. 
Игры
I love how J's Reviews disliked Chronicles so much and didn't want to make a review of it that he added this video to his Sonic playlist.
Lol yeah the way I found this video and channel lol
This game came out on the same system as The World Ends With You. That can really put the music into perspective.
It came out on the same system as the first Zero Escape game.
Yea but the world ends with you had more than 1 guy making the music
@@arzfan29 Professor Layton and the Curious Village cane out on the same system and only had one composer. It still is miles ahead in the music department.
I wanted a sequel to this game SOOOOO bad! Fuck Ken Penders for his petty lawsuit. I liked his Archie stories even though many others didn't but this move sealed the deal for me in terms of how I view him. Imagine suing a company for using characters you made for that universe!
What makes it even stupider was these weren't even his characters! Sure the Nocturnus Clan had some surface level similarities but they were different characters. Heck now hes trying to sue Paramount and those echindas have no similarities to his work at all.
Honestly the team at BioWare wanted to fix and properly polish a chronicles sequel to what the first game was supposed to be too then more but of corse Ken mess up any possible plans for that…..
Archie lost the fucking contract somehow
I'd freak out so hard if Sega managed to get Atlus to make a Sonic RPG.
Same !!!
@@shinodax7123 shin megami tensei sonic edition
This is a real tragic game in hindsight. You can tell there was an honest-to-God attempt to make Sonic characters and material naturally fit in an epic RPG context (the personal dialogue choices, the duo-based POW attacks, the Chao as enhancements). But it's all buried under a severe lack of polish. This game legit made me nauseous as a kid.
That said, I don't think being on the DS was necessarily the source of those flaws. I can think of plenty of DS games and RPGs that compromised with its unique hardware and touch screen gimmicks while still being extremely polished and functional. Hell, Chronicles' POW move QTEs played and felt like a dream in Elite Beat Agents. It's just another example of Chronicles being severely unpolished and failing to maximize itself on DS hardware.
Awesome review Ryan!
Having read up on the story of this game, it's got perhaps one of the most detailed and well structured, yet unique story out of the sonic series.
Character personalities are shown properly, even Shadow who is the most misrepresented character in the series, is shown properly and even works with Tails at one point, like a neat alternative to the classic Sonic and Tails duo.
I'd say the most unique and intricately structured part of the story is in chapter 7 - 9. The alien races are very unique yet have their own individuality and specialties.
Even the whole Argus Event and pocket dimension brings diplomatic situations and high stakes into the mix, which makes the world feel even more alive and tense as all the four factions are being played by the Nocturnus clan and Ix.
The greatest thing of this Argus Event stuff, is that it, combined with the fact that Eggman is gradually becoming more and more unhinged and insane as time passes (see Sonic Generations' past eggman's comments on how crazed present eggman is, and Archie Comics' great example of the eventual breaking point where Eggman gets stuck in a mental loop and struggles to frantically draft up a strategy against Sonic after years of continuous failures in countless varied plots.), it subtly foreshadows Eggman's eventual fate of destruction one way or another.
The Argus Event took those who were gaining too much power and would later become a danger to the universe or beyond perhaps. Even the Voxai were effected, but despite them being peaceful, they weren't flawless and thanks to Ix's demonstration, could have grown in size and influence perhaps across the universe or further as a peaceful species and utopia, but all it takes for that to turn into a destructive nightmare that could cause unfathomable collateral damage, is for the leaders of the Voxai, the Overmind, to get a form of great power that would corrupt them overnight into tyrants.
Because the Voxai were put in that pocket dimension, that scenario was pre-emptively allowed to happen, and as a result, Thebes ended up taking over and changing the Voxai's ways, reducing their dependancy on leadership and making it more likely that if any corruption happens to the leader(s), the population could independantly work to fix that rather than be easily controlled.
And voila, the critical flaw of the Voxai's civilisation was fixed, thanks to the Argus Event and exposure to the other species and Sonic and co.
The Kron were given a taste of their own medicine and were ruled by Ix's iron fist, showing them how it felt to be dominated in the same way that they ruled before. That humbled them and fixed their ways.
The Nrrgal and Zoah were shown that even if they hate another species, it shouldn't blind them to the possability that their fighting is pointless and that they are both being played against eachother by a greater danger, and despite them still conflicting even at the meeting before attacking the Nocturnus clan, they had learned to put differences aside and work together.
While this may not have been a quick-fix, it still showed them that working together can achieve more than just fighting eachother.
And then there's Eggman, who took over the planet while Sonic and co were absent. You might be wondering: why hasn't he been thrown into that pocket dimension along with other creatures, to eventually fix himself and see what he's doing so wrong? Simple: If he's inevitably going to self-destruct one way or another, what's the point in putting him in that pocket dimension?
No matter what he does, Sonic and co are always finding ways to stop him, so even if he shatters a planet into pieces, rips open reality and causes disasters that can rival black holes, he's going to be shut down before he truly succeeds at becoming all-powerful and omni-potent, and eventually he'll be destroyed likely by his own endeavours.
There is no point putting him in that pocket dimension. His fate is set, he isn't going to be able to eventually threaten the very being that orchestrated the whole Argus Event and pocket dimension situation. There is no need to intervene.
It's, actually incredible, how this seeming plot-hole of eggman not being sent to that pocket dimension, actually makes sense when taking other things into account.
I have no idea if the devs of sonic chronicles made this on purpose, but regardless, they made such a fascinating yet sly piece of foreshadowing that works so well in the story!
Whoever made the story of this game, they all did such a great job to rival even the main games, and that's impressive because Sonic has some very deep storylines mixed through the series.
I wish that Ryrule had also talked about this or mentioned the SonAmy shipping subplot that as a big fan of those in the 2000s was really happy to see being acknowledged or given opportunity. The fact that he didn't mention it at all either means he never got "that far" or he straight up forgot, just like he straight up didn't get the timing right for some moves shown in this video to an embarassing degree, as if he was a videogame journalist playing games.
Honestly I hate how rushed and budget cut this game became by SEGA. BioWare was really trying to make a grand sonic rpg and was even going to have full voice acting from the 4KIDS cast but thanks to SEGA themselves that never happened. The game was supposed to release late 2010 originally too…..BioWare never really came back from this honestly and there games output suffered afterwards…..
dam
it was? Do you have a source claiming it was pushed out too early? Because thats the first time I ever heard of that during my years finding out more about its development.
Surprised he went the whole video without mentioning Ken Penders
or the SonAmy scene right before the final chapter.
3:56
Came from Js vids
Heard Kingdom hearts ost
Subbed
I remember Christmas 2008, Eric and I both got copies of this and Eric got a copy of Unleashed on 360. I vividly remember hitting a wall on that damn Swatbot boss fight for exactly the reasons you described.
For whatever reason I perservered and beat this game. The biggest problem that I can recall was the balance. When you eventually go to the Twilight Cage, the desert planet has a fight with these tanky alien guys that I swear took an hour of nonstop dps to beat.
The overworld gameplay had no finesse to it (you just tap icons and things happen) but pretended to be as depthful and interesting as the adventure-style games that inspired it. I remember the entire time I was playing Chronicles, I was thinking about all the great platforming and puzzles in Partners in Time and wondering why I wasn't playing that instead.
Watching footage of this now, I think I realize that the core game loop of Chronicles looks and is designed like a smartphone game, something you play purely to avoid boredom. Games like that have their place, but compared to all the great Mario RPGs we've enjoyed for the past 25 years, this felt like a cheap budget game before I really knew what that was. Sticker Star was more fun than this.
I do hope they try a Sonic RPG again at some point because the potential is good and even this game had good ideas.
I still love this game to this day given you can play as other characters and check out their abilities and team attacks, along with the lore surrounding a banished branch of the Echinda Tribe. Sucks the lawsuit made it so non of the new characters could ever return again like Shade who would've been a great add on to the cast as Knuckles could have a sister-like figure. Plus with her tech can you imagine how much tech Tails could make
Now that I think about it, a solid Sonic RPG would be really based.
I sunk so many hours into this game as a kid. I loved Sonic, still do, but what made me love it even more was that it reminded me of Paper Mario with the turn based battles and extra emphasis on story.
I acknowledge now that it's not a very good game, but I can't hate it. Nostalgia is top strong for this one, but even critically I still like chunks of the gameplay.
You know, I never did have the patience enough to get Eggman to level 50
This is such a great video. Chronicles is my Sonic guilty pleasure and you did a great job talking about it man
Thanks for giving this a shake and going through it. Subbed for amazing integrity
I got this in my feed randomly and I gotta say, seeing you miss so many of the POW commands hurts my soul as someone who's beaten this game multiple times over.
The action commands weren't even all that new if you consider how Elite Beat Agents came out 2 years prior and that's the entire game.
Aside from that, I agree with a lot of what you said.
A very unpolished RPG with a lot of good ideas and very solid writing held back by its own budget.
I just can't help but love it as the one Sonic game I actively replay.
My main team in chronicles is usually Sonic,Knuckles,Shade,and Omega who is just so OP honestly. Strongest character in the game hands down
We need a "Redacted" version, better music, either get rid of or make POW moves more forgiving, allow you to change party members anywhere or at least certain areas in EVERY zone, and some other QOL features.
I actually like the POW moves because they are a risk reward system. And technically you dont need any character for healing because you get so much unused healing items that I rarely ever used because I got the healing stuff done when I needed it to.
Changing characters anywhere also isn't the best solution, because softlocks.
@@Evilriku13 I guess. But i still think the game needs a remake, cause i found remixes that sound miles better than the original tracks, plus maybe have a setting or difficulty that makes POW like the OG version.
And yeah probably have to make it so you can change characters at certain locations in zones would be safer to reduce the risk of soft locking.
I knew as soon as you started bringing up DS music that you were going to put up Vector to the Heavens.
Anyways, this was a pretty solid review. I can't pretend to have played this game before, but I am strangely fascinated with watching reviews of this game nonetheless. Keep up the good work!
Hello! Thanks for your video!!
I got this game the other day and I loved it! But I always knew about its bad reception, so I wanted to understand what was so bad about it. So, again, thank you!
I'm not into turn-based RPG games honestly, so I wouldn't understand on my own.
You were very fair in criticizing the quality of the music and the appearance in general, I always found it charming and retro so I didn't mind, but yeah, the drawings were... interesting.
And with all due respect, I have to disagree with you on the touch-screen system, if anything, it makes the battles more engaging, just a few of those POW moves were really difficult (mostly Tails and Cream's) and for that, you can get the Chao that you already mentioned, I never saw that as something negative, you just face a difficult and you can get a unique upgrade/equipment to deal with it.
And again, I really liked the touch-screen system, if anything, they could try this again with a rhythm-system or something (like how you have to press the buttons in the Miku games)
I hope we get a spiritual remake of this game and Sonic Forces where we have the correct characterization and use of Sonic lore with the way EVERYONE and EVERYTHING (possible) is used into a game but packed into an actually good beatable worthy game.
I have such nostalgia for this game that I consider it and Sonic Battle as some of my favorite Sonic games (heck, Sonic R is my favorite Sonic game of all time because of my childhood memories of it)! The Sonic fan base is pretty toxic against those who have love and appreciation for universally panned games, so it wouldn’t surprise me if I get that here. Granted, I played Chronicles years ago (twice all the way through, might I add!), so I’m curious how much I’ll enjoy it today. I recently bought a new copy and am looking forward to reliving those memories! I remember being so excited about the cliffhanger ending because I thought that meant a sequel was secured. I still am sad it never got one. The fact that this game took the time to piece together the lore and tell a pretty solid story (it has a plot hole or two, but still solid in comparison to the modern trash) shows that the people cared about the franchise as a whole. Not just Sonic, but all the characters. I am ashamed that there are fans who hate the past Sonic games for indulging “Sonic’s stupid friends.” It means these people look down on those who like the other characters. That’s just wrong. Sonic is not the only character in his universe. It’s dumb to think otherwise. It’s sad that SEGA thinks the majority of the fans only like Sonic when, in reality, they are just the more vocal minority. It would be amazing if SEGA tried an RPG again. Chronicles was long enough ago now that most newer fans have no idea it exists. The concept seems fresh given that RPG’s are so popular today. The DS and 3DS are now old hardware with the Switch being out. Too bad there was such little care put into Colors Ultimate’s port. Though the game was garbage to begin with because of the dialogue and characterization, it would have been nice to see a positive effort. Would the modern Sonic Team put real heart into a new RPG? Probably not. If there were better writers who care about Sonic’s universe, his friends, and his lore, then an RPG would be possible. And so would an Adventure 3 title or Adventure/Adventure 2 remakes…
Well said id like a new sonic rpg and i agree with all your points
Yes! I remember wishing it had a sequel I was hoping silver and blaze would show up to save sonic and co in the prologue.
Dude "If your stylus is a LITTLE OFF" that includes the circle dingus XD
You mentioned the way to break the game and that was how I played it the first time through
Spam POW attacks with Sonic, Shadow and Omega and have Cream use heal and POW restores, especially because once you upgrade the POW restore ability it would give a positive return to cream herself too, so it could be done with reckless abandon.
The real broken character was Omega however, he was able to throw out absurd dps, both single target and AOE, and a particular move, a laser cannon, nullified enemy defence but cost alot to use, but with the cost removed with cream, it turned most fights into ‘Omega blasts the opponent and it died’
They couldn’t bring too much of normal sonic music because that would’ve gotten them in more trouble from the copywrite issues. It sucks because a RUclips channel literally swapped the soundfonts for the game’s whole track and it sounds amazing. It sucks how late into development the copywrite stuff happened…..
pretty solid review right here. Although I agree that this game is pretty rough, I'm just glad to see someone willing to be so introspective about this weird 2008 ds game. there's just something very entertaining about it. Keep it up!
My experience with Sonic Chronicles mirrors my experience with the series as a whole (outside the Adventure games).
Often, when I play a Sonic game, I really like it my first run. Like, my first time through I loved Sonic 06 and Shadow the Hedgehog. Then I came back to revisit them both and realized "Oh, these games are actually awful."
My experience with Chronicles was pretty similar, though I don't think it's awful. My first time playing it, the story and lore engaged me and I was super interested in what could be next.
Then, after a year or so, I popped it back in to play it again an it hit me:
Sonic Chronicles is BOOOOOORING. It's such a slow paced and basic RPG it makes me wonder how on earth they thought these mechanics were good for Sonic.
Which is a damn shame because I would have been super interested in seeing where they went after Eggman finally took his opening to actually take over the world. I think a 2nd game to retool the mechanics and really realize what a Sonic RPG could be would have been really cool.
Unfortunately, the game flopped and Sega never revisited the idea.
I still think it has the best story for a sonic game .
Mostly unrelated but I was chanting Vector to the Heavens when you were listing great DS tracks
Then when it came I got flooded with memories and pain
why is this video in J's Reviews' playlist lol
Played this back when I was maybe 10-12? I loved it, I must have got the hang of the controls, I always enjoyed the little minigames for each ability and I got really good at them to the extent it wasn't an issue for me. I loved the chao system but I was always annoyed I could never level them up since I had no one to play multiplayer with. I mean I'm sure if I went back to the game now I would obviously have heaps of issues but for whatever reason, maybe just where I was in my life when I got it or just luck, when I played it I had a blast.
Well Sonic is getting a new game in a year so that’s nice
neat video
Wait this isn’t J’s Reviews
EXTREMELY SPOT ON REVIEW DUDE!!! Especially with its reception. For me it was rhe first sonic game i owned not played. My sib and i wanted Unleashed but we got this instead my parents thought the right game lol. Anyway im one of pple who enjoys the game but definitely sees all the flaws and most them i can look past or just straight up forget them. I know the game is bs when starting but when replaying the game with previous data carry over for new game plus it gets much more fun and enjoyable. As a massive fan of the lore of the franchise i was so happy/surprised with the the revelations that were told. I wish they could carry on these story elements but at last with the whole penders situation i believe sega put them in a writing corner for knuckles and all echidna stories going forwards which is their fault as we know they could of won that lawsuit instead of just basically saying “eh whatever” and just settled with what we got now. I didnt know that the devs were hardcore fans and wanted to make the game that makes me happy and sad to see such passion shitted on, came out half baked, and never full realized (aka the cliffhanger) Safe to say in the sonic timeline we can say its just an alternative timeline that is set to doom. Those who try to find its placement in the offical timeline says that the ending is picked up with unleashed intro and which could make albeit never mentioning or showing shade since then is a big red flag.
I agree that a new sonic rpg should happen and can be very well done in the right hands and its truly a shame it hasnt happened yet.
Ps/side note Idky but i always get u and hadox confused with each other. 🤷🏻♂️
1 guy had to make the music by himself in a short time so he had to use midi files, with that in mind the music is pretty good, without without great in mind it's not bad and it has amazing boss fight themes, if the music had more work than this game would be seen as a masterpiece
Every song on the DS are midis, though. That dosen't mean much.
game journalist level gameplay
sadly have to agree on here. No wonder that chicken nugget trashtalks the combat system when I see him struggle at the same inputs way too much. And not only the hardest ones from say Cream.
I kinda wonder if that came to be because he played it on an emulator instead of original hardware, but he never itterated to the why besides "him being bad". Same for the controls he apparently struggled with, like I rarely got stuck in the game when moving around.
I had to listen to Xion theme after this video! God tier music
the only thing i can disagree with is your argument against the little mini games for the special moves.
maybe i was just really damn good at games when I was younger but I never had a problem with them, it feels like a genuine skill issue in that regard.
The PP and armor piercing problems though? Hard agree. It's ridiculous to see my whole squad get bounced back 17 times on a 2 health robot.
The beauty of having glossy eyes as a kid(if that makes sense)
I was so excited to get this game as a kid and did enjoy it but now as i grew older...yeeeaaaa...this game is bad. I still appreciate experiencing it but yea, shame we'll never see a sequel to brush/polish things up...mainly cuz of pos named Ken 😑
Seeing you fail the sliding parts of the minigames makes me cringe because it reminded me of how I used to play it. You're going way too fast, it's a deceptively slow circle. Not entirely your fault, but you can't expect to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result either.
As with all Sonic games, if you grew up with it, you know how to work around the jank and appreciate it for what it is. I love this game. I think the characters and story are interesting and well-written, I love the look of the game and I think the models actually look really decent considering the limitations. And yeah, the soundtrack isn't great. But it's not as ear-grating as often as people say it is.
Ya idk man, it’s hard to consider the difficulty with the QTE attacks cuz I thought they were a neat challenge that I was able to train and effectively use. Maybe you ran this on an emulator or the game wasn’t responsive for whatever reason but I can’t help but think “gut gud” is the only response that critique. QTE is the barrier for entry because that’s all this game is, it’s turn based rpg that engages you in the combat via touchscreen.
I think the game is middling at best, but that just makes me want a sequel that builds upon the guitar hero/DDR rpg type mechanics
i love that game its the best Sonic Game i ever played 😍
am I the only one that played this game 5 times and last month beat this game on pc
My ideal Sonic RPG would be an openworld action RPG with Xenoblade-esque huge worlds that you could just run around and have fun in.
The combat system would be less strategic and more…thinking on your feet, I guess is the best way to put it. You have this segmented bar that serves as what you spend to activate special abilities, and it fills up in three different ways based on the character you’re playing and the speed-tech-power trio. Speed characters fill up the bar by building up momentum and combos, technical characters take advantage of weaknesses (attacking from behind/other weak points, using strong elemental special attacks, etc.) and dealing critical hits, and power characters deal damage. The bar starts to deplete if you stop doing whatever you need to do to fill up the bar, so you gotta be quick! Not only that, but you have to think about your positioning, what the special ability actually does, etc. I think a fast-paced combat system like that would be perfect for a Sonic RPG! A true master should be able to seamlessly chain between using abilities and filling up the bar.
Equipment wouldn’t really matter as much, and progression would be more about leveling up to increase stats and unlock more special abilities (similar to Sonic Chronicles, actually). There would actually be only three stats, again reflecting the speed-tech-power trio. Speed determines a character’s movement speed and how slowly the special abilities bar will deplete. Technical increases the chances of critical hits, the effectiveness of items, and how fast the special abilities bar fills up. Power is basically your combat stat-it increases how much overall damage you deal, decreases how much overall damage you take, and increases your HP. No characters are limited in what you can put your stat points into, so you can absolutely invest all of Cream’s points into combat and have her be an absolute monster!
so Sonic Frontiers got you what you wanted?
Games like these are perfect for the Steam Deck imho. :-))
The battling system in this game are somehow even more slower or tedious than in Pokemon Gen. 4. The Sinnoh games more accurately.
You could have included sonic rush’s soundtrack
You know it really says a lot when Wario: Master of Disguise managed to at least have a banging soundtrack. It’s a crappy game, but man is the OST good.
Cant say the same for Sonic Chronicles.
What's crappy about Wario: Master of Disguise? Just curious.
A Sonic RPG based on the TV show where they live in the forest and have that bunny character with the southern accent and a robot arm would be such a cool game. I also wish they would have done a remake of megaman legends for the 3ds.
You don't think the cliffhanger will ever be resolved?
no, Sega got sued over this game because one of the Archie Sonic comic artists accused them of stealing his characters
... Central City?
*Has war flashbacks*
Nah, I actually like the shadow level generally especially the music but F*CK those bombs!
16:27 - 18:01
A Sonic story? That makes playing the past adventures feel like they matter and weren't just gimmicks and used for cheap nostalgia bait? God...if it weren't for certain individuals and events...we could be living in a different world...I really hope Frontiers can capture that magic, cause I'm kind of tired of the constant "episodic" feel the games have had lately. Like I get it, it's hard to try to put this series into a timeline, but it's not impossible. They're not afraid to make a retcon here and there, why not make retcons to make the games work like a seamless timeline? I just find it hilarious that in trying to make the series as safe and accessible as possible, all it does is alienate die hard fans and give new ones the wrong impressions. And is honestly just overall daunting and confusing if you get into the lore, like seriously if you look back over the games, the lore is so haphazard and mismanaged it's mind boggling.
which people are you referring to?
@@ringtail99 Sega not really utilizing the characters and world, and Penders causing fusses.
What I remember from this game when I played it, (I was around 10/11 years old I think) is that I unlocked Dr Eggman in my party. And there was this like hole in the overworld that you could roll through as a spinball with Sonic. But this worked for every character...even Eggman. Eggman could roll like a ball. I will never understand why they made that a thing
like
...*GASP* That’s why sonic stories suck recently
The good stories were just RPG stories
What sucks is this plot coulda been a decent one for Sonic ADventure 3.
I think it would be too alien for that. Too much spacetravel isnt a Sonic thing, unless its the finale.
U can't lie regardless of whether you like or hate the game the sound track compared to other sonic games is awful.
BioWare fell off hard
I am reading a lot of comments talking about the amazing story in this game. Lmao, my friends, if you want a good story, you turn to literature.