He does not actually adress Mary in detail.. He immediately switches to the deity of Christ and only talkes about that! There was NEVER the christian belief that the trinity consists of Mary, Jesus and the Father !!! This is hilarious! I challenge every muslim to prove historically that Christians held that belief at some time!
Collyridianism They use to worship mary as Goddes Also, Even today Catholic Christians pray to Mary and call her the mother of God. Even though they do not believe she is God. But in Islam that still considered as taken her to be God. Pray is only for God. No one else.
@@bashe999 that sect isn't even said to actually have existed. As well as the fact that they wouldn't be considered christians and even if they did exist that wouldn't be representative of christian beliefs during now or then.
You cannot think more than how a chicken thinks. How do you say that you can challenge every Muslim. Your belief depends on what the Church told you and NOT what Jesus told you. No where in the Bible it says that the Trinity of GOD exists the way how you believe in. CONCEPT OF TRINITY is a pagan concept that have been developed in Christianity over the centuries by which the Christians claim that god manifests as 3 persons. The ancient pagan religions such as the Babylonians worshiped the trinity of Nana , Shamash and Ishtar. The Ancient Egyptians had the Trinity of Amon, Ra and Ta Hinduism believes in the Trinity doctrine of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva The Greeks believed in Hekate : A 3 headed goddess of night and magic The Tribes of North Western Europe worshiped a group of 3 female deities known as MATRONY. The Persians believed in Triad of Ahura Mazda , Mithra and Anahita.
@@RH-vr7cs the word bible doesn’t appear in the bible. Ok. God is omnipresent omnipotent but it doesn’t say that explicitly in the bible. The trinity is not pagan influenced you have been lied to . It is the most clear explanation of god if you go by the scriptures.
You Muslims aren't alone in rejecting the false doctrine of the trinity, the Bible itself not only in no way supports it but specifically contradicts it. The Catholic church kept adding human tradition to the Bible and they passed that on to their protestant successors. Praise be to Jehovah God in the name of Christ his son.
I prey that Yahweh helps get rid of the false pagan trinity from this world as fast as possible and Christendom will flourish till the day of resurrection. Love from a muslim
288 / 5000 a big misconception is of Muslims believe that the trinity is 3 physical / spiritual persons, the trinity is a God who has three personal of God is the Father, God the Word and God is the Holy Spirit. in the same way that Allah is a god, Allah in heaven but is also the word of Allah here on earth and the spirit of Allah.
That’s right. Praise God. A 𝕄𝕚𝕣𝕒𝕔𝕝𝕖 That is what the Doctrine of Trinity is. It is a Divine Attribute. Miracles by definition don’t make sense to people. And Muslims who believe that Mohammed flew around the Middle East on a horse shouldn’t be pointing fingers.
The fact that the Quran says that Christians worship Mary and Jesus is definitely a major red flag in terms of the author understanding what Christians believe.
So don't be fooled by weak arguments which attempt to refute the Quranic views on Christianity by Christian Apologists like James White, David Wood, Jay Smith, CP, and others. All these people know very well that Roman Catholicism worships Mary and Jesus as a god. James White has called out the Vetican Church for this. So ALLAH is not wrong on the Quran. Vetican Church is another sector of Christianity. Whether you deny it or not but fact remains, they are Trinitarian Christians like you. "Do not say 3" is in reference to all forms of Trinitarianism whether it's Christo-Trinitarianism or Pegano-Trinitarianism even those who have Million gods. All of you are wrong. ALLAH alone is devine.
@@islamforall437 Catholics don't worship Mary, the only ask for her intercession just like how you ask Muhammed for his intercession. Is that worship? No. Coming from a Ex-Muslim.
@@Evan_Vancomycindog Coming from an ex-Catholic, Catholics do have a strange devotion to Mary that isn't really found in other denominations, I'm not sure about Orthodoxy, but most of not all Protestants do not pray to Mary in any way ... But Catholicism does hold that Mary was born miraculously free of sin. And as far as worship goes, there was a heretical sect called the Collyridians who would offer bread as a sacrifice for Mary... They deified Mary to a point that even the Catholics couldn't accept.
Muslims should have no problem with the Trinity, not only because the Quran confirms the Spirit of Allah, and the Word of Allah, but also because the Islamic theology includes multiplicity within the single essence of Allah, if the attributes of Allah have actual existence, and actual distinction.
@@skellingtonmeteoryballoonthis is why Trinity is false and cannever be true. Nobody can explain it without using Modelism. Rule 1 : I am the Lord your God, there is nothing like ME..... ALLAH said to all the Prophets of Israel and Muhammad The moment you use an egg argument you have used a Model and ALLAH cannever be demonstrated with a model. This is what always gets Christians into trouble... Because I can take an apple, eat it and after defecating, give you stools. Would you eat them? I mean they are still an apple isn't it🤔 So in future, never use Modelism to demonstrate the concept of God. You will always fail. And the moment you break an egg and divide it into shell, yalk and white it is no longer an egg but a shell, yalk and white. And besides ALLAH is indivisible. That is why the egg argument does not work
The worst thing you can do to a child is tell the child to memorize a book written by God-Any book! It's impedes the child's critical thinking. What if you get to heaven and find 7 Gods with a mother and father, would you say this is ridiculously impossible -because Angel Gabriel didn't reveal this to Mohammed in the Quran, or it wasn't revealed to Moses in the book of Exodus? ! 😪
Does anyone realize that the Muslims criticize about the trinity.. But they don’t even realize that they themselves pray in the same way.. Trinity Muslims don’t even want to believe that because ignorance is beyond any other ..
its a contradiction for those who have not read the Bible totally. You have to see the bigger picture. The Old Testament also speaks of different persons to God. The Unity of God is described as Echad in the Hebrew Bible, meaning a unity that can consist of more than one thing, yet they all are one unity. Even in Genesis God was said to say "Let us create man". Who was he talking to? Himself? There has always been God the Father, The Word of God (Jesus was the Word become flesh) and the Spirit.
How do we reconcile this passage along with other passages such as Matthew 24:36-“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone,” with the theology of the Trinity? Moreso, how do we answer objections to his equality to the Father (in divinity) within the LDS community and his actual divinity to groups just as the JWs based on these verses and others like it that appear to seperate the two person’s authority quite drastically. In John 14:28, Jesus says, “The Father is greater than I.” For many, this statement seems obvious: Jesus is not God. But is this really what our Lord was saying? In Catholic theology, this text can be understood in two ways. First, being “greater” than another does not have to mean one is essentially different from the other, as when we say a man is essentially distinct from an animal. Greatness can refer to one person functioning in a greater way quantitatively, qualitatively, or even relationally in comparison to another without there being an essential distinction. For example, Matthew 11:11 tells us there has never “risen among [men] a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.” John is not something other than human because he is said to be greater than certain other people. All human beings share the same nature; therefore, they are absolutely equal in dignity. Similarly, the Father can be said to be greater than the Son pertaining to their relation within the inner life of God, but not with respect to their shared nature as being fully and equally God. The Father alone is the first principle of life in the Godhead; thus, the Catechism of the Catholic Church can say, in paragraph 246: “Everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born . . .” (emphasis added). In this sense, the Father can be said to be greater than the Son relationally, while they are absolutely equal with regard to their essence as God. Another-and perhaps simpler-way one can legitimately interpret this text is to point out that John 14:28 seems to be emphasizing the humanity of Christ. Thus, because Jesus is fully man, it would be appropriate to say the Father would be greater than the Son. The entire verse reads: “You heard me say to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.” Jesus was emphasizing here and in previous verses his impending death, resurrection, and departure from the apostles. This would apply to his humanity most particularly. Thus, the same Jesus who can say, “I and the Father are one” in John 10:30-as God-can say, “The Father is greater than I” in John 14:28-as man. WHY DID JESUS HIDE HIS GLORY? Glorify the Father Jesus hid his glory when he became a man in order to show his Father’s glory. “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him” (John 1:18). When Old Testament believers witnessed an appearance of Christ, they were often fearful for their lives. They knew that sinful man could not look upon God and live. The glory of God was also the judgment of God; the natural person who saw it died. When Moses spent forty days alone with God on Mount Sinai, it was necessary to cover his face when he came down because it reflected the glory of God. The people could not look upon God and live. When John was on the Isle of Patmos, he too had a vision of Christ. When John saw Jesus in the full glory that was his from the beginning, John wrote, “And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead” (Rev. 1:17). When Paul had a similar vision of Christ, he was blinded with light from heaven (Acts 9:3-9). Later he wrote of being “caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter” (2 Cor. 12:4). When Isaiah saw the Lord in the temple, he cried out, “Woe is me…” (Isa. 6:1-8).If Jesus had not veiled his preincarnate glory he could not have accomplished what he came to earth to do. It was necessary for Christ to hide his glory temporarily as he sought to save the souls of men. After the work of atonement was done, he could pray, “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was” (John 17:5). Limitations of Humanity As a result of the incarnation, Jesus became the God-man. He was at all times both God and man as he lived on earth. When Jesus became flesh, he voluntarily subjected himself to its limitations Be. fore his birth, heaven was his throne. Now in the flesh, Jesus was limited to the distance that a man could walk on the paths of Galilee. The Son of God who created water voluntarily lived in a body that got thirsty. Jesus was born into this world as other humans (Luke 2:120), even though his conception was supernatural. As a child he developed as every human must develop. Jesus grew in mental, physical, spiritual, and social areas of life (Luke 2:52). He had the essential elements of human nature. He was body (Heb. 10:5), soul (John 12:27), and spirit (Mark 2:8). Jesus became hungry when he did not eat (Matt. 4:2). He became tired and asked the woman at the well for water to drink (John 4:6). Throughout his life on earth, Jesus was just as human as any one of us, subject to the same emotional experiences of sorrow, pain, and hurt which any man experiences.The willingness of Jesus to limit himself to becoming a man gives us confidence that he understands the affairs of our lives. “For we have not an high priest who cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin” (Heb. 4:15). Because he has experientially known the frustrations of humanity, we have a “God of all comfort” (2 Cor. 1:3) upon whom we can depend. While those who deny his deity believe they are honoring Jesus Christ in calling him a great man, the Bible says he emptied himself voluntarily by accepting the limitations of humanity. Yet at all times he remained God.He surrendered the independent use of some attributes. Self-emptying took place also by the voluntary choice not to use certain of his attributes. Power of the Holy Spirit Perhaps the best expression of omnipotence is that of the miracles of God. Even though Jesus was known as a miracle worker, he performed those miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:28). He voluntarily laid aside his power to do them and relied on the Holy Spirit or the Father. On various occasions he made it clearly known he was doing the work of his Father. “Then answered Jesus, and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise” (John 5:19). During his earthly life and ministry, Jesus was omniscient, but did not know the time of the second coming. He was omnipresent, but when he became flesh, he limited himself to being in one place at one time. He was omnipotent, yet he prayed to God to perform the raising of Lazarus from the dead. Jesus had not lost these attributes of God, but rather, in the process of emptying himself, he chose not to use his relative attributes.
You contradicted yourself several times. For starters, how is he omniscient and still doesn't know of the hour of his second coming, since God in reality is all-knowing and incomprehensible to the human experience ? We can debunk these one by one after you answer this question.
1- CONCEPT OF TRINITY: Trinity is a pagan concept that have been developed in Christianity over the centuries by which the Christians claim that god manifests as 3 persons. The ancient pagan religions such as the Babylonians worshiped the trinity of Nana , Shamash and Ishtar. The Ancient Egyptians had the Trinity of Amon, Ra and Ta Hinduism believes in the Trinity doctrine of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva The Greeks believed in Hekate : A 3 headed goddess of night and magic The Tribes of North Western Europe worshiped a group of 3 female deities known as MATRONY. The Persians believed in Triad of Ahura Mazda , Mithra and Anahita.
All-knowing did not know the trinity, preached by Jesus when he told us to go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Allah of Muhammad is for sure a false god
world’s oldest recorded Marian prayer. It’s the Sub Tuum Praesidium, and it goes like this: Beneath your compassion, We take refuge, O Mother of God [Theotokos]: do not despise our petitions in time of trouble: but rescue us from dangers, only pure, only blessed one. Recently divorced papyrus 470 from Egypt says actually Early Christians worshipped Mary as God.
Jesus Christ died and was risen for all people, all nations, and all tongues. For we are forgiven for all are sins when we repent and receive him into our hearts and lives. How amazing is that! Once we turn from are sinful nature and except Jesus Christ into are hearts he invites us into his Father’s eternal kingdom with eternal life. The Holy Spirit will guide you truth, love, and righteousness. But we must also remember to keep the faith and trust in our Lord. Living a life in obedience in righteousness! God bless all who are seeking truth in love and righteousness. Praise Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior! May God be with always!
You wana ask forgiveness or no from GOD? If your answer is yes, if jesus died for ur sins why you want to ask forgiveness If you said no, you have to reject bible Whats your choise bro?
Jesus was in heaven because he became human. That way before Mary concived angel gave his name. Any prophet came from heaven. Convinced without a father. Allah and his word .read sure 4.171. John 1.1. In the beginning the word already existed. The word was with God and the word was God.
It clearly says not to believe in Trinity. The word spirit in that ayat has been used as a ‘spirit’ put in Mary’s (swt) womb. As in a baby. The baby who would speak the words of God Almighty.
The child by the seaside The story goes as follows: While Augustine was working on his book On the Trinity, he was walking by the seaside one day, meditating on the difficult problem of how God could be three Persons at once. He came upon a little child. The child had dug a little hole in the sand, and with a small spoon or seashell was scooping water from the sea into the small hole. Augustine watched him for a while and finally asked the child what he was doing. The child answered that he would scoop all the water from the sea and pour it into the little hole in the sand. ‘What?’ Augustine said. ‘That is impossible. Obviously, the sea is too large and the hole too small.’ ‘Indeed,’ said the child, ‘but I will sooner draw all the water from the sea and empty it into this hole than you will succeed in penetrating the mystery of the Holy Trinity with your limited understanding.’ Augustine turned away in amazement and when he looked back the child had disappeared.
Augustine actually said: I am, I know, and I will. These are three distinct realities in the inner life of me, and I am one person. In God, the distinct realities are entire Persons. God is one God, but Three Persons. The Father is God UnBegotten The Son is eternally Begotten of the Father. The Father’s Word or what the Father “thinks”, is what I like to say. And the Holy Spirit is Spirated by the Father and the Son. A father, a mother, and a son, make up one family unit. They are not one in essence. But God is. Three persons, one family unit. Three Persons, One Essence, one Will, One God. God is Pure Actuality. Things cannot go from potentiality to actuality (by this I mean any change or action). If you keep going back, this cannot reasonably go back infinitely. Things cannot cause themselves to go from potentiality to actuality. There has to be a start for this chain. To be the first, This must not have been started by another thing. Therefore, What started this Chain must be Pure Actuality, God. Evil is the absence of Good, so God cannot be evil. God is therefore Good. In Christian Philosophy, God so embodies things, that God is those things (God is also omnipotent, omniscient, etc). I guess you could say they are Attributes of His Essence (this is my statement, idk, I’m really tired so might be saying wrong thing). Goodness requires love. God must be love. Love is to “Will the Good of Another”. God the Father Wills the Good of the Son, who is Himself, but also another Person. The love between the Father and the Son is described as the Holy Spirit, I personally describe the Holy Spirit as the Father and Son “thinking” of Each-Other, although that might be a bad example. Also, can you please explain to me how the Quran is uncreated but not another eternal thing existing separately from God? Unless, like in Christianity, the Word was with God, but also God.
[T]he Messenger of Allah (Mohammed) observed: Verily Islam started as something strange and it would again revert (to its old position) of being strange just as it started, and it would recede between the two mosques just as the serpent crawls back into its hole." [Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0270.]
I am a Muslim and by the sound of that Hadith it definitely means what it says. Islam started as a minority faith which people viewed as strange, in the end of times only a few faithful followers will be left, hence “recede between the two mosques”
levicus john Umm so please explain why there are numerous events of God forgiving people. Tell me why does every chapter in the Quran start with “In the name of Allah, the most Compassionate, the Most Merciful”? Why is Allah called “Ash-Shakur” (the forgiving), Ar-Rahman (The Compassionate), and Ar-Raheem (The Most Merciful) in the Quran. God is infinitely forgiving, and no Islam is not about destruction, that’s what you’d like to think and fool yourself into, your opinion has no relevance
@@lightscameras4166 If islam is all about the all compassionate God, is capable of bringing so much destruction throughout history(in the name of islam and allah, for jihad) Then what do u wanna say about jesus christ and his teachings, a radical christian will only love and forgive even more. I dont think u can say the same about a radical muslim.
Christian’s don’t know anything about the Quran. Nowhere does the Quran mention who is in the Christian trinity. (1) Quran 5:116 doesn’t say Mary is apart of a trinity (2) Christians take Jesus as a deity alongside god and Catholics take Mary as a deity alongside God (3) People say catholics don’t worship Mary as god but catholics kneel before Mary and ask her for intercession and in Islam this is worship (4) In Collyridianism they worshiped Mary as a God. So the Quran doesn’t make any mistake.
Abraham’s Visitors. Genesis 18 1 The LORD appeared to Abraham by the oak of Mamre, as he sat in the entrance of his tent, while the day was growing hot. 2Looking up, he saw three men standing near him. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to greet them; and bowing to the ground,a 3he said: “Sir,* if it please you, do not go on past your servant. 4Let some water be brought, that you may bathe your feet, and then rest under the tree. 5Now that you have come to your servant, let me bring you a little food, that you may refresh yourselves; and afterward you may go on your way.” “Very well,” they replied, “do as you have said.” 6Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah and said, “Quick, three measures* of bran flour! Knead it and make bread.” 7He ran to the herd, picked out a tender, choice calf, and gave it to a servant, who quickly prepared it. 8Then he got some curds* and milk, as well as the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them, waiting on them under the tree while they ate. 9“Where is your wife Sarah?” they asked him. “There in the tent,” he replied. 10One of them* said, “I will return to you about this time next year, and Sarah will then have a son.” Sarah was listening at the entrance of the tent, just behind him.
If the God of Koran is omniscient, would he ask Jesus if he taught people to worship him, and Mary besides God? No. An all knowing God would never ask such a question. Jesus never taught that Mary was divine - pl read the new testament to know that. Then what is Biblical Trinity - is it an invention of man or revelation of God. You want a loving Father as God revealed through Jesus Christ, or a vengeful being who destroys everything that does not submit or worship to him? Then why did he create us with a freewill? Does the OT reveal Trinity? No, but speaks of ‘Yahweh’ becoming man. Yes - almost all books of the Old Testament foretell the God of Israel coming in flesh a revelation of his self-giving love that God revealed in Jesus. If anyone thinks it is blasphemy to call Jesus God, then the large number of Old Testament prophecies about ‘Yahweh’ coming to the earth will contradict themselves and end-up as mere pagan myths of the Jews! (Or the alleged corrections Jews made in their scripture to support incarnation of God). Why? Though the Hebrew prophets were monotheistic in their belief, they declared about “Yahweh’ coming to this earth in their prophecies - there are over 300 Messianic prophecies in the Old Testament concerning Messiah, some of them are: Numbers 24:17 - "I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near; A star shall come forth from Jacob, A scepter shall rise from Israel, and shall crush through the forehead of Moab, and tear down all the sons of Sheth.” Isaiah 7:14 - "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.” Isaiah 9:6 - “For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 11:1 - “A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.” Isaiah 42:1 - “The Servant - Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.” (Jesus came as a servant). Isaiah 50:6 - “The suffering Servant - I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.” (Trial of Jesus) Isaiah 53:3-7 - “He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities. The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep that have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; like a lamb that is led to slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.” Jeremiah 23:5 - “The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.” Daniel 7:13 - "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. Psalm 80:17 - Let Your hand be upon the man of Your right hand, Upon the son of man whom You made strong for Yourself. Psalm 110:1-2 - “The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for Your feet. The LORD will stretch forth your strong sceptre from Zion, saying, “Rule in the midst of your enemies.” Micah 5:2 - “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.” Zechariah 9:9 - “Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion! Shout, Daughter Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and victorious, lowly and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.” Zechariah 2:10-11: Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares the LORD. “Many nations will join themselves to the LORD in that day and will become my people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. Zechariah 13:7 - Awake, sword, against my shepherd, against the man who is close to me!" declares the LORD Almighty. "Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn my hand against the little ones. Psalms 22:16-18 - For dogs have surrounded me; a band of evildoers has encompassed me; They pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones. They look, they stare at me; they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots. (David never experienced such events in his life, but he wrote prophetically about the Messiah). Zechariah 12:10 - And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. (If Jesus is not God - who Israel has pierced?). Malachi 3:1 - “I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty. Finally, one test to all those believe and fear God. If you think God is omnipotent, let all the killing of enemies and blasphemers be done by God himself and not by man. That would stop all wars!! Since man cannot create life neither can he destroy life. The righteous judgement of God hangs on people who kill others. Get ready to meet the righteous Judge of all men.
Problem is Mary's supposed divinity is stated within the context of referring directly to the trinity in the versus prior. The context is the trinity. Sorry, ch5:71-78. Later froM vs 110 it brings up jesus and Mary and how God showed them favour. This is a narrative/story of the food sent down as a sign that they are not "Gods", but merely rely on God Sorry but yeah the Quran just plainly gets it wrong it's arguing against a strawman. It's embarrassing historically to state that Christians referred to Mary as divine before Islam. It is of no weight if there is a heretical sect.
They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. - Quran 5:73 Trinity in the Quran cuz Allah is the third of the three 😂
Lee Eel They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.
@@kayka5090 4:171: "The Messiah, Jesus , the son of Mary , was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul from Him. 1: Jesus as a son of Mary and a Messenger 2: Jesus before he was born he was a word of allah 3: and he is a soul from Him (Allah) So i can count 3 in 1 in the quran :D
I served 4 years in the chaplain corps and I’m still a reverend, rewatching these videos is always been in lighting to our beliefs. “All praise to Father God”, “Allah Akbar” “laus Deo”.
1- CONCEPT OF TRINITY: Trinity is a pagan concept that have been developed in Christianity over the centuries by which the Christians claim that god manifests as 3 persons. The ancient pagan religions such as the Babylonians worshiped the trinity of Nana , Shamash and Ishtar. The Ancient Egyptians had the Trinity of Amon, Ra and Ta Hinduism believes in the Trinity doctrine of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva The Greeks believed in Hekate : A 3 headed goddess of night and magic The Tribes of North Western Europe worshiped a group of 3 female deities known as MATRONY. The Persians believed in Triad of Ahura Mazda , Mithra and Anahita.
HE is "GOD" therefore his power is unlimited he is omnipotent. He can multiply himself many times, but still one. He can multiply many times, you can name them JESUS if you like. Trinity, 3 in one explanation is as follows: As GOD he can multiply himself and still equal to one.. 1x1x1=1.(1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1=1) , Now, Although the GOD the Father is higher in Authority, JESUS is one with the FATHER, and HOLY SPIRIT is the action and the Words. Meaning, they are like a family. THE FATHER is the TOP, but they act as one as they have one goal, one will, and act and speak as one, because they think as one, and the will of the other is the same as the other. So, you can consider no matter how big the number a family, or a community has as long as they have one will, speak as one, and act as one you can consider that they are one. If one member, meaning JESUS CHRIST may think differently and temporarily not one with the FATHER,..... HE HAS to speak and pray to the FATHER explaining his thinking and asking the FATHER if HIS thinking is right that he may align his thinking with the HOLY FATHER, if the FATHER see that JESUS thinking is right that thinking will join as one. The HOLY SPIRIT do the action. I hope this clear everything. TO GOD be the glory, JESUS is our saviour. HE speaks the TRUTH. May HE be with us all.
"John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well." Just don't forget, this is what is found in Hinduism and Mithraism, man-god and images of God. If you were take literally Jesus is God as per "John 14:7" then verse is direct contradiction to Numbers 23:19, yet this verse does not say: "I am the God and worship Him alone". Numbers 23:19 God is not a man,...
Ok I will. In fact I'll first go to the book you quoted, Isaiah (starts with ISA ;) ) which is filled with prophecy about the Messiah: chapther 9 verse 6: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." And now read John 14:8-9 where Philips asks Jesus to see the father and Jesus says "Philip, you still don't know me?" There's more ifyou want.
I love how he listed every counsel and by ~450AD they had “come to an understanding” regarding the trinity😂 Eluding to the fact the trinity was fully understood by ALL councils of the Church however acknowledges that the Qur’an failed to address (accurately) the trinity that is understood plain and clear in the writings. Gosh, being a Muslim trying to make all this make sense has to be tiring! Yes. Muhammed misunderstood the trinity. It’s okay Muslims. It’s not necessarily the easiest concept to grasp but just because something might not make sense at first or is hard to understand, doesn’t negate its authenticity/truth. Read a Bible and find out for yourself why it’s so obvious Jesus/Yeshua/Isa declared equality with the Father!
The best thing about shabir is that his answer has no answer. He didn't talked much about Quran being wrong about the trinity and Mary being the part of trinity.
IF YOU HAVE DOUBTS ABOUT TRINITY please read John 17:1-5 and Mark 12:29-37 and John 6:44 in which Jesus himself, he is the one talking in these verses, he says he is the Son of God. He says Father gave him His glory and authority to resurrect us and you know, only God can resurrect us. If Jesus, as Eternal Son who inherited everything from the Eternal Father has the authority to resurrect us, Jesus is God. Read this as many times as you need, pray for the Holy Spirit to help you understand it.
A 𝕄𝕚𝕣𝕒𝕔𝕝𝕖 That is what the Doctrine of Trinity is. It is a Divine Attribute. Miracles by definition don’t make sense to people. And Muslims who believe that Mohammed flew around the Middle East on a horse shouldn’t be pointing fingers.
Only God is God... beside Him all are just part of His creations. The holy spirit is NOT a single tittle for a particular divine person. Holy spirit sometimes refers to God or some aspect of His Powers or sometimes it pertains to Angels, especially the arch-angel Gabriel. God is One in Person & in Being.... He is undivided. He is Just One.... never in the holy Scriptures did God or any false gods are described as composite-beings. The term “god” is understood by the Jews, Samaritans & the early Christians to be just one person... and by linguistic meaning it pertains only to one person... TRINITY is confusing & a FAILURE.
QURAN SHOWS ALLAH IS MORE THAN TRINITY, BUT "FOUR-NITY" You say that in contrast to Christianity, Allah is not a trinity. Yes, you are very right. That is what makes our God to be the Almighty. That is what makes our God a mystery. Any God that is not a mystery ceases to be the Almighty. Indeed, the Quran says Allah is not a trinity and that Allah doesn't have a son. The Quran is right. However, do you realize that the Quran shows that Allah has daughters - 3 daughters. This is what the pagans of Mecca believed because they had been worshipping these deities. These daughters are - AlLat, Al uzzah and Al Manat as we see in Sura 53:19-22. Some even say Al-Lat (female version of Al-Lah) is actually the wife of Al-Lah because the word is the feminine form of 'AlLah'. So, 3 goddesses plus Allah making 4 deities. So, while Muslims say Allah cannot have a son, they should know he has 3 daughters according to the Arabian pantheon. So, Allah plus 3 other goddesses equal how many gods? That is a "four-nity" or quadrinity instead of a "trinity". What the Quran says is that it is unfair for pagans to assign only daughters to Allah when they themselves detest daughters in their families: "Have you ever thought about al-Lat and al-Uzza, and about the third deity, al-Manat? Shall you have the male issues (offspring), and He the female issues? That is indeed an unfair division!" (Surah 53:19-23). In other words, why is it that it u6s only daughters thst Allah have and not sons? Arabs love sons more than daughters. But they say onky has only daughters. Allah says he is not happy snout this. It is a "unfair division"
2of2: "The second person in the Trinity came in the flesh" A person is complete separate entity & so you don't have one God but rather three. You have three distinct mental pictures forming in your mind when you think of three separate entities & forever & ever they will remain as three not one, but your empty words says as one but your thinks three. You analyze NT, a position given to Jesus is not co-equal to God at Mark 24:36. So you can't have the cake & eat it same time. Trinity is fake.
@Jesus, name above all names Isaiah 45-5 I am the LORD, and * there is no other* ; *There is no God besides Me* . I will gird you, though you have not known Me, Exodus 20-3 *You shall have no other gods before me* . Deuteronomy 4:35 To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD Himself is God; *there is none other besides Him* . Deuteronomy 4:39 "Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the LORD, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; *there is no other* . Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the *LORD is one* ! 1 Samuel 2:2 There is no one holy like the LORD, Indeed, *there is no one besides You* , Nor is there any rock like our God. 2 Samuel 7:22 For this reason You are great, O Lord GOD; for *there is none like You, and there is no God besides You* , according to all that we have heard with our ears. Psalm 83:18 That they may know that *You alone* , whose name is the LORD, Are the Most High over all the earth. Psalm 86:10 For You are great, and do wondrous things; *You alone are God* . Isaiah 43:10 "You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and *believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me* . 2 Kings 19:15 ... *You are God, You alone* , of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth. Nehemiah 9:6 *You alone are the LORD* ; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all. The host of heaven worships You. Isaiah 37:20 "Now, O LORD our God, deliver us from his hand that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that *You alone, LORD, are God* ." There are ton more verse exists in the OT, that God is one and only.
"God does NOT HAVE CHILDREN. No one says that he does" "That would mean all sons of God are being blasphemous." If you are saying Jesus is only begotten son of God is not blasphemy? Your believe isn't consistent. Why it is necessary if God do not need a son, to paint a picture that Jesus is only divine or being begotten son of God? You mean God take human forms come to Earth, like in Hinduism & Mithraism? Please come back & answer my question, I want to, get to the bottom of this matter.
Begotten is not a real word.....its a fabrication, interpolated idea.... Allah swt does not lower himself to the standard of man, eat, drink, PROCREATE, that would mean he is not Omnipotent.
Has Islam Misunderstood Christianity? by Bassam Zawadi Argument no. 2: The Qur’an Identifies the Trinity as Allah, Jesus, and Mary Nowhere do the Islamic sources explicitly identify the three persons of the Trinity. It is not even in Islam’s interest to do so. Islam is mainly concerned with denouncing concepts and beliefs and not delving into any unnecessary details. It’s not essential to identify the three persons of the Trinity and then condemn that Trinity concept when you have already made it clear that Allah is one person. When we look at Surah 4, Ayah 171 and Surah 5, Ayah 73 where the Trinity is being alluded to, we don’t see Mary’s name being mentioned as one of the three. The Qur’an treats the issue of the Trinity and Mary’s being taken as a god as two separate themes. Surah 5, Ayah 116 states: “And when Allah will say:”O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto men: ‘Take me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?’ “He will say: “Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say).” This is simply a verse disapproving of the worship of Jesus and Mary besides Allah and also exonerates Jesus from having advised his followers to worship him and Mary. There is no allusion to the doctrine of the Trinity in this verse. Also, the idea of Mary being taken as a God could be understood in more than one sense. If one refers to Surah 9:31 and 25:43, one could see that when the Qur’an refers to someone or something being taken as a god, it doesn’t always mean so in a literal sense, but that this someone or something is treated in a way that only God deserves to be treated. Similarly, one could be open to the possibility that when Surah 5, Ayah 116 talks about Mary being taken as a god, that it doesn’t mean so in the literal sense, but that there are those treating Mary in a way that only God deserves to be treated just like with the Catholics and their excessive venerations of Mary. Professor of Christianity and Islam at the University of Birmingham, Dave Thomas, said in his article entitled “Trinity” in the Encylopedia of Islam vol 5, pages 369-370 in regards to Surah 5, Ayah 116: “Strictly speaking, this verse need not be read as a reference to a version of the Trinity but rather as an example of shirk, claiming divinity for beings other than God (see Idolatry and Idolaters). As such, it could be understood as a warning against excessive devotion to Jesus and extravagant veneration of Mary, a reminder linked to the central theme of the Qur’an that there is only one God and he alone is to be worshipped (see worship). ….. and then he continues on to say: If, on the other hand, there is no sectarian version of Christian doctrine being addressed in this verse, it need not be read as a rejection of a deviant doctrine of the Trinity but as a denial that Jesus and Maryam are equal with God, and a warning (q.v.) against making excessive claims about them. Thus, it can be understood as an instance of the warning against the divinization of Jesus that is given elsewhere in the Qur’an and a warning against the virtual divinization of Mary in the declarations of the fifth-century church councils that she is theotokos, “God-bearer.” Islamic historian Heribert Busse said on page 23 of his book, Islam, Judaism and Christianity: theological and historical affiliations: “There is reference in the Koran to an odd understanding of the Trinity. God asked Jesus if he taught the following: “Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God” (5:116). Jesus answered negatively, of course. The obvious assumption here, that Muhammad made a mistake in listing the three persons of the one Godhead, can be countered with the assumption that the reference was to the Collyridians, a Christian sect that worshipped the Virgin Mary.” He then continues on to say: “With respect to the cited Koran passage, Muhammad was most likely referring to such a Christian sect. This is in any case more plausible than assuming that the Prophet defined the Trinity in such an erroneous manner out of pure ignorance.” Indeed, it’s highly unlikely that the author of the Qur’an would have made this mistake, especially since we have no record of any Christians arguing this point against Muhammad (peace be upon him), while Islamic sources have not shied away from mentioning Christian arguments against Muslims, and plus, there were Christian converts such as Salman Al Faarisi, ‘Adi ibn Hatim, and others who were around that could have corrected the Prophet (peace be upon him), but they never did because they didn’t understand the Qur’an to be saying that Mary was part of the Trinity. Qur’anic exegete Imam Al-Tabarani said in his commentary on Surah 5, Ayah 116 that even if there were no people today who claim that Mary is God, then surely it’s bound that some in the past must have done it. This shows that grammatically and textually speaking, one is not bound to interpret the Qur’an as referring to all Christians. Rather, it is condemning the belief and not pinpointing exactly who it is that held this belief. It’s possible to say that it is a reference to the Collyridians, just as Islamic historian Heribert said, or could possibly be a reference to the Catholics as Professor Dave Thomas suggested. The next verse in question is Surah 5, Ayah 73, which states: “Surely, disbelievers are those who said: “Allah is the third of a three.” Professor Dave Thomas, on page 369 of the same article, said in regards to Surah 5, Ayah 73: “It has been suggested that this verse criticizes a deviant form of Trinitarian belief which overstressed the distinctiveness of the three persons at the expense of their unity as substance (Masson, Coran, 93; Watt-Bell, Introduction, 158). It has also been noted that, in fact, this is not a reference to the Trinity but to Jesus, who in Syriac literature was often called “the third of three” (Griffith, Christians and Christianity, 312-13). By this reading Q 5:73 must be seen as constituting part of a sustained criticism of the belief in the divinity of Christ that occupies the whole of Q 5:72-75, i.e. an emphatic repetition of the criticism in verse 72 that God and Christ are identical (see Christians and Christianity; Polemic and Polemical Language).” Again, this goes to show that the verse is not clearly saying that all Christians believe that Mary was part of a Trinity. Some have argued that because two verses later in Ayah 75, the Qur’an presents an argument against Mary’s divinity that this means that Ayah 73 is identifying Mary as one of the three. However, this connection is not clear. If one were to read Ayah 72, he would observe that the Qur’an is condemning a belief different from the one in Ayah 73. Hence, just because Ayah 75 condemns the belief in Mary’s deity, that doesn’t necessarily imply that it has to do with the people being addressed two verses prior in Ayah 73. The next verse in question is Surah 4, Ayah 171, which states, “O people of the Scripture! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah Jesus son of Mary, was a Messenger of Allah and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary and a spirit created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: “Three!” Cease! It is better for you.”........... Please go islamicdiscourse.substack to read the rest of the article.
Rafael Princ explanation is not is not new but you are still missing the point as a whole, as Rafael Princ explanation is to basically reinventing a theologically position for Jesus which does not exist in the Bible, beside something so fundamentally important could not have left to reinvention or vague interpretation but it must be in crustal clear as Ten Commandments. ■ I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. ■ You shall have no other gods before me.
"so now you do agree that the NT says Jesus is the Son who is the Father?" God is free from any need including need to beget a son. Yet in Biblical language, the Bible has got sons of god in tons. Exodus 4:22 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, 23 and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." Jews are the God? "Make up your mind then." You still cannot produce a verse Bible says, this: "I am the God and worship Him alone".
No...that verse you have mentioned from the Bible is wrong...God tells Moses to tell pharaoh..."let my people go"(Exodus 5:1, 7:16). The part where God refers to the Israelites as His son(Exodus 4:22-23) God says that they are His first born sons as they are the first nation that He had taken inorder to mould them into a people He wanted.
For the last part...there are many verses where it is written that God alone is to be worshiped. Psalms 86:10 "For You are great, and do wondrous things; You alone are God." Isaiah 37:20 "Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that You are the LORD, You alone." New testament 1st Timothy 1:17" Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen." Jud 1:25 "to God our Savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen."
"its a contradiction for those who have not read the Bible totally." Believes and principles must be coherent one place to another. John 14:7, does not say "I am the God and worship Him alone" yet John 14:7 is direction contradiction to verse at Numbers 23:19. Either you believe Jesus is man-god or you disregard the Numbers 23:19 as did not come from God and you cannot have both ways.
How is it that you can rebuke the Trinity so much when it's plain for you ALL to see 1+1+1 DOES equal 1.Look at everything that's in existence for example... everything is made up of Trinitarian qualities. Think about it for 1 minute (or 3)..ok... TIME, SPACE & MATTER, the 3 building blocks of existence which cannot exist without each other , Time has 3(past/present/future) space has 3(Length/width/height) & Matter also has 3(Solid/Liquid/Gas) That's a Trinity of Trinities....Now...think about this as well .... Father/Mother/Child which were Made In the IMAGE OF THE CREATOR which happen to be the 3 building blocks of Humanity' continuous existence, only can exist within a Trinity of Trinities. Look you cannot use the Bible against its own teachings, that's what the devil does, but that aside , you are right about one thing, The Messiah Jesus Christ did worship one God, He called him Father. Is that the God you worship? If so, why don't you call him FATHER then??...I dare you too. I HAVE TO WARN YOU ASWELL GUYS, PLEASE Be careful , The LORD GODS WORD CONCERNING BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT IS CONSIDERED AN UNFORGIVABLE TRESPASS AGAINST THE LORD HIMSELF. May you be guided to the TRUTH THROUGH THE GLORY AND TRUE MAJESTY OF THE FATHER THE SON AND HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST WHO IS HUMANITY'S ONE AND ONLY LIVING OPTION TO ETERNAL LIFE WITH OUR CREATOR
King Nimrod started the Muslim (soi 19) and Catholic mother and son religion, it is not Christianit or from the Bible. Mother and son worship is a perfect example of how Satan has set up a counterfit religion. His plan is to make a copy of Gods plan but make it so that humans will worship him.. As you will see in almost every religion there is a mother and child. It all leads back to the mother goddess of Babylon, as I mentioned in this site, after the death of Nimrod, his adulterous wife gave birth to a child who she claims was supernaturally conceived. She taught that Tammuz-the son was a God child; that he was Nimrod, reborn and that her and her child were divine. Thus establishing MOTHER AND CHILD WORSHIP. Numerous monuments of Babylon shows the Goddess mother Semiramis with her child Tammuz in her arms.(picture to the right) Remember at the time when they built the tower of Babel God changed their languages and they were scattered throughout the earth. God did not change there mind set just their languages, they took with them the worship of the divine mother and god-child with them. This explains why all nations, in one way or another worshipped a divine mother and god child. Among the Chinese, the Mother Goddess was called Shingmoo or the "Holy mother." She is pictured with child in her arms and rays of glory around her head. The ancient Germans worshipped the Virgin "Hertha" with child in arms. The scandinavians called her "Disa" who was also pictured with a child. The Etruscans called her "Nutria" and among the Druids, the "Virgo-Paritura" was worshipped as the "Mother of God."
"May Jesus bless you." If you had said God bless you, it is accepted for muslims, but "May Jesus bless you." it is an insult to muslims, while Jesus himself said "Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good, but one, that is God Luke 18:19. Beside, I know sure, that God didn't subjected mercy and salvation upon crime against humanity in the killing of Jesus, while God do not honor, endorse, accept evil barbaric killing a human being i.e. killing Jesus.
Trinity is mentioned letter by letter twice in the QUR'AN, and Allah Subhana WaaTala condemed it, and at that time the Trinity is not yet coined by the Christians but it is recorded in the QUR'AN before the christians invented it, so the Prophet Muhammad PBUH knows that someday this Christians will believe in the Trinity, and it did come true
No such thing as a trinity exists. Trinity is a big lie. There is only one God creator of everything in the universe including Jesus worthy of worship alone. However the Quran did not define what the trinity doctrine is correctly. It defined it as Father, Mother, Son or Allah, Jesus, and Mary. Christians never believed this from the time of Jesus upto now. They believe the trinity is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Look at how the Christian so confuse about trinity. I bet Dr.Shabir could not comprehend it himself, one God but three, three but one but three god in one. Trinity is not biblical. There is only One God, and Son of God.
"Muhammad cannot be meant with the verses i gave you. He cannot be called the Everlasting Father can he?" Which government was under the Jesus? So your claim goes nowhere.
This doesnt make any sense, there hasnt been any christian group ever except for an unconfirmed small group in 4th century AD mainly composed of women that may have worshiped Mary as God, and that group would not have lasted long enough for Muhammad to see, if it even existed at all. And even if that group was real, why would he speak to a extremely small amount of christians who were dead before Muhammad was even born, when the overwhelming majority of christians before, during, and after Muhammeds time never worshiped Mary? It is clear that Muhammad understood the trinity as father, mother, and son. Not father, son, and holy spirit like 99.99999 of christians have since the trinity has been accepted by christians even before Muhammad was born. If Muhammad meant to just simply show that the trinity was not real, he would have simply said it is not real, instead he chooses to go into specifics of the trinity and gets it wrong.
3of3) God do not encourage people to commit evil, therefore Jesus' death in most humiliated way was work of bad Jewish people, could not have come from God, and attributing it unto God as if that God wants Jesus be killed for sins of humanity was even greater evil. Further saying that God have a son is an accusation against God; it is like attributing human-like and animal-like properties (i.e. having sons and daughters) unto God is unforgiving sin. Christians do not realize this.
I don't want to know "he said or she said" verses. Where is the verse in the Bible Jesus himself says "I am the God and worship Him alone". Remember I said, God do not beat around the bush, when it comes to His identity. "the government shall be upon his shoulder:" Jesus was not a political leader and nor did Jesus father a child on Earth. It is not what Jesus said, what I requested for and this ambiguous verse can be applied to anyone included to the Prophet Mohammed.
google james white trinity quran or read is book 'what every christian needs to know about the quran'. Ally and James White have debated. You can also see one of their debates. Ally is not spot on at all. He can try to explain the embarassing truth away all he wants.
so now you do agree that the NT says Jesus is the Son who is the Father? Make up your mind then ;) You're all over the place. And no we do not believe we know what God looks like. Yes i know many ppl make portraits of Jesus' face. First of all they are portraying Jesus' human bodily face, not God's face. Secondly its not Biblical to even presume we know what Jesus' human body looked like, let alone God's appearance. So, next question.
The Quran never definds the Trinity as God, Jesus and Mary instead it is calling those like the Prostestant who say andbelieve Jesus is God and the Catholics who believe Mary is the mother of God not to take human beings as god. They all call themselves Christians. The Quran did not get it wrong you need to think of something that makes sense to yourselves cause the Trinity does not.
Paul I thought the Quran was understandable? If the Quran contradicts what christians believed in its time then theres something non-understandable in the Quran. Why does a ALL CLEAR book need one of its core teachings of shirk, that it got wrong, to be explained? There is a BIG problem with your book.
world’s oldest recorded Marian prayer. It’s the Sub Tuum Praesidium, and it goes like this: Beneath your compassion, We take refuge, O Mother of God [Theotokos]: do not despise our petitions in time of trouble: but rescue us from dangers, only pure, only blessed one. Recently divorced papyrus 470 from Egypt says actually Early Christians worshipped Mary as God.
And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden? (Koran 5:116)the verse in the Quran he is so clearly referencing the trinity I can't believe this was his answer. here " this is so clearly referencing the trinity, incorrectly, why wouldn't it mention the Holy Spirit as some separate 'god which muslims think christians believe. Wouldn't the Quran want to dispel this belief as well ? It seems gravely important information to let on. Plus not one christians takes Mary as a divine being. No one was worshiping Mary like a god its called reverence. Just like muslims have reverence for Muhammad even if he wasn't god.
"I and the Father (GOD) are one" Jesus also have said that he and father and 12 disciples are one. So you believe 12 disciples are God as well? You are not consistent with your believes and comparing verses one to another.
Jesus also said "Why do you call me good? Only One is good. To enter eternal life you must follow the commandments." and he preached Islam all throughout the gospels. Christians however want to focus on the rare contradictory verses about his crucifixion, and not Jesus's actual teachings--they won't _read_ their gospels.
Because He(God) loved you and made atonement on your behalf. What is love then? The greatest form is to die for someone. This was Gods greatest love and He foretold that to father Abraham when he asked to offer his only son and received him back from death (figuratively speaking). He was the one walking with Adam in the Eden before Adam sinned. He was the one foretold when Adam sinnned that he will (seed of woman) crush the head of serpent and get bitten on heel ( so there is a cost for crushing serpents head). There are many more verses foretold about God in flesh. I was blinded earlier by my hardness but I am thankful to Most high for His love and for letting mercy triumph over judgement. It makes you have that beautiful relationship with Father and worship him in truth and in spirit. I pray to God that we are led to Him. May Glory belong to him now and forever. Amen.
Come on!! Where and who dare says that the disciples are one. You understand little of the Bible and yet you claim that you speak the truth concerning it. There is no Christian who has ever held that belief
@@jareddeleon8836 am sorry but Jesus never said that to enter heaven you must follow the commandments. He said that the only way to enter heaven is by being born again(spiritually) John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." .....please make sure your argument is supported by evidence.
@@gamalsaad1545 I watched the video in which Shabir Ally explained that the concept of the trinity in the quran was what some christians believed at the time of Mohammed, so the quran wasn't in error. But that argument falls flat in that the council of Nicaea which came up with the term 'trinity' was convened by emperor Constantine between May 325 AD and August 325AD and mohammed was born in 570AD. So during mohammed's time the concept of Trinity was known to be the Father, son and holy spirit and not Father, son and Mary. So, if mohammed claims to have that revelation from Allah, then Allah should have known what the christians believed and not indicate the trinity as Father, son and Mary! If we should believe Shabir ally the from the quran it means the islamic god Allah agrees with the trinity as spelt out by the christians. Either way, the quran fails since either it is wrong or it affirms the trinity. That tells it cannot be the infallible word of the Creator. Period.
@@relax0180 dude there was christian converts among mohammed companions also several christian arabian tribs in arabia and a lot of jews in medina , arab were defintely familiar with concept of trinity so quran did not even want to explain it , quran is concern about shirk associating partners with allah or treating some individuals in way only god deserve to be treated all arabs were pagan and quran focus on the types of paganism and they are all false
@@gamalsaad1545 Read your own quran about the trinity. Surah 4:171 O People of the Book! Do not go to extremes regarding your faith; say nothing about Allah except the truth.1 The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger of Allah and the fulfilment of His Word through Mary and a spirit ˹created by a command˺ from Him.2 So believe in Allah and His messengers and do not say, “Trinity.” Stop!-for your own good. Allah is only One God. Glory be to Him! He is far above having a son! To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And Allah is sufficient as a Trustee of Affairs. This part sums up the trinity in your own quran: ... Allah and the fulfilment of His Word through Mary and a spirit ˹created by a command˺ from Him.. Thus, Allah, his(Allah's) word and his (Allah's) spirit. So, the trinity is about the same supreme being, his word and his spirit. And NOT different beings.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Genesis 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth. :27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them. John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. :14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as His mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. :20 But while Joseph thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, you son of David, fear not to take unto you mary your wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. :23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. :14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Look, I see four men loose, walking in the middle of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God. Jesus said in John 10:30 I and My Father are one. & John 14:11 Believe Me that I Am in the Father, and the Father in Me: or else believe Me for the very works' sake. Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age. Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why had Satan filled your heart to "lie" to the "Holy Ghost," and to keep back part of the price of the land? :4 Whiles it remained, was it not your own? and after it was sold, was it not in your own power? Why had you planned this thing in thine heart? You had not "lied" unto men, but unto "God." 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. John 14:6 Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me. 2 John 1:9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. John 15:26 But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify of Me. Jesus said in John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which you gave me; and they have received them, and known surely that "I came out from you," and they have believed that you did sent me. 2 Corinthians 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raises the dead: Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead;) Acts 13:30 But God raised Jesus from the dead: John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and will you rear it up in three days? 21 But Jesus spake of the temple of His body. 1 John 3:16 Hereby Perceived we the love of God, because he laid down His life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. Romans 8:11 But if the "Spirit" of Him "that raised up Jesus from the dead" lives in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead will also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that lives in you. John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto Jesus, my Lord and my God. :29 Then said Jesus to Thomas, Thomas because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. 2 Corinthians 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; :2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. Romans 8:11 But if the "Spirit" of Him "that raised up Jesus from the dead" lives in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead will also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that lives in you. John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto Jesus, my Lord and my God. :29 Then said Jesus to Thomas, Thomas because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. 2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: :4 In whom the god(Satan) of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. :5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. :6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Ephesians 3:9 And to make all mankind see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: John 15:26 But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify of Me. Jesus said in John 20:22 And when he had said this, He breathed on them, and says unto them, Receive you the Holy Ghost: 1 CORINTHIANS 12:3 Therefore I give you to understand, that no mankind speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, except by the Holy Ghost. Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory. John 14:15-:17 If you love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees Him not, neither knows Him: but you know Him; for He lives with you, and shall be in you. Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God live in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, that person is none of His. Psalm 78:41 Yes, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel. 89:18 For the Lord is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king. Isaiah 14:20 That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the Lord has done this, and the Holy One of Israel has created it. 43:15 I am the Lord, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your king. Habakkuk 1:12 Are you not from Everlasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One? We shall not die. O Lord, you had ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, you had established them for correction. Mark 1:22 And they were astonished at Jesus Doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes. :23 And there was in there synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out. :24 Saying, let us alone; what have we to do with you, you Jesus of Nazareth? Are you come to destroy us? I know you who are, the Holy One of God. Luke 4:32 And they were astounded at his doctrine: for his word was with power. :33 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had the spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice, :34 Saying, let us alone; what have we to do with you, are you Jesus of Nazareth? Are you come to destroy us? I know you who you are; the Holy One of God. Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said, Father, into your hands I commend my Spirit: and having said this, He gave up the Ghost. Jesus said in John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to you. Holy Father, keep through Your Own name those whom you have given Me, that they may be one, as We are One. John 17:20 neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which will believe on Me through their word; :21 That they all may be one; as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, That they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that You have sent Me. :22 And the glory which you gave Me I have given them: that they may be one, even as We are One: ;23 I in them, and You in me, that they may be made perfect in one: and that the world may know that You had sent Me, and have love them, as you have loved Me.
You please forward one verse in the Testament, where Jesus, himself says that "I am the God and worship Him alone". In Old Bible, God was not beating around the bush about His identity as stated as below, since it is the most important concept in faith to understand who truly God is & it should not be left to vague narratives or interpretation. Isaiah 41:13 "For I, the LORD your God," Secondly, God didn't subjected mercy & salvation upon crime against humanity in the killing of Jesus.
I'm a little late . I come in peace in the name Yahweh. Yahweh or YHWH. Do Exodus 3 13, to 15 .. The Devine name revealed. Then read bottom of footnote. This should clarify things.
@While we were yet sinner, Christ died for us Likewise Jesus himself did not say "I am God that you worship me alone". Jesus himself was saying as per John 5-30, he cannot do anything out of his own free will, except what God wants him to do. Jesus himself refused to take credit for being called as a "good master, why do you call me good?" Mark 10-18. Whereas God says, all praise belong to God alone. Isaiah 42-8, it was God Himself saying it. Whereas God have power over everything and God is not a man according to OT and God cannot contradict Himself, then HE is not God.
@@bartbattista6295 If you want to make peace with your Creator, then you have one option before you, it is to accept Islam and practice Islam. Are you Christian or Jewish?
@@bartbattista6295 Originaly the bible was gods word until your secret society devil worshiping priests introduced other doctrine which you passed off as the word of god.
@@micheal74rich Practicing Islam is rebelling against God. Jesus says “no one comes to the Father but through Me”. There’s no Jesus is Islam. Come to Jesus. He’s ONLY in the Bible.
Jesus loves all humans, even Muslims. Jesus loves the humble hearts, up to this moment He is working to redeem all humanity even those people who hate Him much. He appeared to many faithfully Muslims already who wishes to be enlightened by God's will. Fairly enough He argued with some of them to clear their doubts. Call Him now He will show you the way to God. He said who sees Him has seen His Father, for the Father is in Him and He has known everything the Father does. If you guys are serious about God, under prayers look for Him. Jesus will be with you even in the mosque when you call His name, heartily.
Thank you for your comment! Muslims love and revere Jesus, on whom be peace. He is mentioned frequently in the Quran and given great prominence and respect.
Indeed. Jesus is one of the biggest prophets in Islam and he will be ready to forgive even Christians when the time comes, if they are pure of heart and not bent on sticking to pagan trinitarianism ❤
@@Terkel152 Of course, that is called the final judgement. The one that resolves who ends up where. On this Earth, in this life, most of us wait for Jesus/Isa to return and unite the good Christians and Muslims and denounce the corrupt ones. He will be the one to bring justice in this mortal life and set the tyrants straight. It's in the doctrine of both religions, the only difference being the question of his "Godhood". Muslims believe him to be the second highest prophet in rank, and Christians believe him to be a literal offspring of the Almighty.
Look I was pointing out to you that I recognize your arguments from Deedat and that you have nothing new to tell me. That was the point in me saying that. Also: You are making mental pictures the criterium for monotheism haha. That's very funny. I dont care how many mental pictures of God you have. It's not a counting game. We are not toddlers. Count 50 mental pictures if you want. It's still ONE GOD. May Jesus bless you.
world’s oldest recorded Marian prayer. It’s the Sub Tuum Praesidium, and it goes like this: Beneath your compassion, We take refuge, O Mother of God [Theotokos]: do not despise our petitions in time of trouble: but rescue us from dangers, only pure, only blessed one. Recently divorced papyrus 470 from Egypt says actually Early Christians worshipped Mary as God.
Mark chapter 1 it says "a voice of one calling in the wilderness, 'Prepare the way for the Lord(Jesus), make straight paths for him(Jesus).'". This is a quotation of Isaiah 40:3. A voice of one calling: “In the wilderness prepare the way for the LORD (God) ;make straight in the deserta highway for our God. Therefore in the very beginning of Mark Jesus is God. Mr you didn't study the Gospel.
The Bible really doesn’t matter. It is filled with contradictions. Its a useless corrupted book. Maybe if there weren’t so many alterations I’d trust it but there are so yeah.
HE is "GOD" therefore his power is unlimited he is omnipotent. He can multiply himself many times, but still one. He can multiply many times, you can name them JESUS if you like. Trinity, 3 in one explanation is as follows: As GOD he can multiply himself and still equal to one.. 1x1x1=1.(1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1=1) , Now, Although the GOD the Father is higher in Authority, JESUS is one with the FATHER, and HOLY SPIRIT is the action and the Words. Meaning, they are like a family. THE FATHER is the TOP, but they act as one as they have one goal, one will, and act and speak as one, because they think as one, and the will of the other is the same as the other. So, you can consider no matter how big the number a family, or a community has as long as they have one will, speak as one, and act as one you can consider that they are one. If one member, meaning JESUS CHRIST may think differently and temporarily not one with the FATHER,..... HE HAS to speak and pray to the FATHER explaining his thinking and asking the FATHER if HIS thinking is right that he may align his thinking with the HOLY FATHER, if the FATHER see that JESUS thinking is right that thinking will join as one. The HOLY SPIRIT do the action. I hope this clear everything. TO GOD be the glory, JESUS is our saviour. HE speaks the TRUTH. May HE be with us all.
world’s oldest recorded Marian prayer. It’s the Sub Tuum Praesidium, and it goes like this: Beneath your compassion, We take refuge, O Mother of God [Theotokos]: do not despise our petitions in time of trouble: but rescue us from dangers, only pure, only blessed one. Recently divorced papyrus 470 from Egypt says actually Early Christians worshipped Mary as God.
@@Peter_gorge mate, I don't know which history book you're reading, but the fact is that early Christians never worshipped Mary. Maybe you're confusing what the roman catholic does today. Regardless, even if they did worship Mary (WHICH THEY DIDN'T) that still doesn't prove that the trinity was Jesus, Mary and God, in fact, no one has ever seen the trinity like that apart from Mohammed.
@@servantofjesus9642 you are absolutely wrong. Please look at Wikipedia or different renowned websites about sub tuum praesidum. Sub turn praesidum which says protect us from danger mother of God is recited in catholic churches. In it people prayed to Mary to remove their sorrow. Mary was goddess in early Christianity. Read my other comment. About part of trinity actually there was disagreement about what will be the status of holy ghost before Nicea convention. There were heretic Christianity than. Moreover Quran doesn't say that trinity consist of father, son and Mary. Wrong. Read the verse again. It says Mary and Jesus will deny that they claimed divinity. Another verse says it is better for the people of book to say three Mary son father. It forbids to say that. There were people at that time and long before in early Christianity people said holy ghost female and they worshipped Mary as goddess. What that proofs?To verify it search google. It is the power of God that he knew about it and we are getting evidence in 1917.God bless you bro.
As C. S. Lewis pointed out, if Jesus is not God, then Jesus is the worst of liars and untrustworthy in every way. • If Jesus is not God, then the apostles would likewise have been liars. • Jesus had to be God because the Messiah was promised to be the “Holy One” (Isaiah 49:7). Since no one on earth is righteous before God (Psalm 53:1; 143:2), God Himself had to enter the world as a human. • If Jesus is not God, His death would have been insufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only God Himself could provide an infinite, eternally valuable sacrifice (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). • God is the only Savior (Hosea 13:4; cf. 1 Timothy 2:3). If Jesus is to be the Savior, then He must be God. Jesus had to be both God and man. As God, Jesus could satisfy God’s wrath. As a man, Jesus had the capability of dying. As the God-man, Jesus is the perfect Mediator between heaven and earth (1 Timothy 2:5). Salvation is available only through faith in Jesus Christ. As He proclaimed, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).
I cannot believe that a scholar like Ally can lie that blatantly and suggest that the Council of Nicea had anything to do with a supposed devolopment of the idea of the Trinity. What a disappointment.
15:28 - Allah breathes his spirit onto Adam thus creating him 12:91/66-12 - Allah breathes into Mary and creates Jesus. 19:16-21 - Allah sends down a spirit who appears to Mary, breathes into her and creates Jesus. Therefore this spirit is another God capable of creating life. 17:85 - Contrary to scholarly consensus, this spirit has been identified as not being Gabriel If it is Gabriel then Gabriel is Allah - already identified in 12:91/66-12 as the One who breathed life. 4:171/58:22 - Jesus is Allah's spirit and his Word breathed into Mary giving rise to Jesus Therefore, according to the Quran, Jesus is Allah.
Jesus can be part of the spirit of God without being God himself. Very simple and obviously the Quran is not preaching polytheism so I don’t know how you came to this conclusion
@@mohamadkhateeb402 1. You made an assertion that is not in the Qur'an. Where does Allah say Jesus is part of the spirit without being God? The Quran doesn't preach polytheism but it's clear from the readings the author is trying to appease Christian doctrine otherwise he would've rejected it completely. The Quran itself admits Jesus is much more highly elevated than Muhammed which explains why Christians rejected him. He kept on stating the obvious instead of wholesale dismissal which would've been smarter.
@kajoli khatunSorry man, got verse numbers mixed. 15:28-29 - When I have shaped him, and breathed My spirit in him, fall you down, bowing before him! 21:91 - And she who guarded her virginity, so We breathed into her of Our spirit and appointed her and her son to be a sign unto all beings 19:17 - "Roohana" is used from the root meaning spirit or soul. If Allah wanted this soul to mean the Angel Gabriel he could've said Jibril, and we know he is perfectly capable of saying Jibril to avoid confusion. Could've even used Malik which means Angel and we know Jibril is an Angel. The author of the quran is trying to mirror heretical Christian beliefs and getting it horribly wrong.
@@mohamadkhateeb402 A 𝕄𝕚𝕣𝕒𝕔𝕝𝕖 That is what the Doctrine of Trinity is. It is a Divine Attribute. Miracles by definition don’t make sense to people. And Muslims who believe that Mohammed flew around the Middle East on a horse shouldn’t be pointing fingers.
@@gherieg.1091 i never insulted the trinity or Christianity so why are you insulting my religion. I was simply responding to his comments about the Quran
Let me simplify this for muslims with clear understanding. Muhammed/author of Quran and the Trinity. If Allah revealed the verses relating to the Christian doctrine of the Trinity then it shows ignorance on the part of Allah, so the only logical conclusion is that Muhammed/Arabs inserted these verses themselves based on what they knew about Christianity, and the Quran makes much more sense using this hypothesis. Let's analyse using objective logic and reasoning instead of what we want to feel to be true. 6:101 - The author of the quran thinks Allah could not have had a son since he has no sexual partner (mate) - therefore Jesus can't be Allah's biological son. At what point did Chistians insist had God had a partner in order to produce Jesus? 4:169-171 - Author of the quran says Jesus was created from Allah's spirit and then still rebukes the Christains for saying "Three"(Gods). Christians believe in ONE God that has 3 natures just as muslims believe he has 99 Names. Allah/Muhammed didn't understand this concept. 5:73 - Author of the quran rebukes the Christains for saying Allah is the third of 3 Gods, so who then are the other 2 Gods? 5:75 - Jesus and Mary can't be Gods as they "both ate food" like mortals. 5:17 - Author of the Quran, still struggling to understand the the concept of the Trinity, says Allah can kill the the other 2 gods Mary and Jesus and all mankind - in order to prove he has no partners. Charming 5:116-117- Author of the quran now really confused so throwing in the kitchen sink. Apparently Allah once asked Jesus - did you by any chance tell men to take you and your mother as Gods??? Jesus apparently replies. I don't have the authority to say such a thing and if I did say it you would have known it. I only told them what you commanded me to tell them. Author of the quran is clearly fabricating a conversation between Allah and Jesus to solidify his point that Jesus denied telling people to worship him and his mother as the other 2 Gods in the Trinity. al-Zamakhshari (b - 1075) commentary. 'The gods are three.' ACCORDING TO THE EVIDENCE OF THE QUR'AN, the Christians maintain that God, Christ, and Mary are three gods, and that Christ is the child of God by Mary, AS GOD SAYS (in the Qur'an): ‘O Jesus son of Mary, didst thou say unto men: "Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God"?’ (Sura 5:116), or: ‘The Christians say: "The Messiah is the Son of God"’ (Sura 9:30)
You seem to misunderstand that the Quran beautifully reaches out to the Christians by showing them that what they have done to Jesus is not too different from the pagans. Any breaking down of Allah is believing in more than one God. Literal sonship is not the point. Are you ex Muslim by the way? Your name is Majeed
@@mohamadkhateeb402 The Quran doesn't beautifully reach out to anyone except make erroneous assertions about Christian doctrine which further alienates the Christians it's trying to guide. A catastrophic error in judgement Consider these objectively with an open mind. 6:101 - The author of the quran thinks Allah could not have had a son since he has no sexual partner (mate) - therefore Jesus can't be Allah's biological son. At what point did Christians insist God had a partner in order to produce Jesus? 4:169-171 - Author of the quran says Jesus was created from Allah's spirit and then still rebukes the Christians for saying "Three"(Gods). Christians believe in ONE God that has 3 natures just as muslims believe he has 99 Names. Author did not understand this concept. 5:73-4 - Author of the quran rebukes the Christians for saying Allah is the third of 3 Gods, so who then are the other 2 Gods? 5:75 - Jesus and Mary can't be Gods as they "both ate food" like mortals. 5:17 - Author of the Quran, still struggling to understand the the concept of the Trinity, says Allah can kill the the other 2 gods Mary and Jesus and all mankind - in order to prove he has no partners. Again, Christians have NEVER believed in 3 separate Gods. 5:116-117- Author of the quran now really confused so throwing in the kitchen sink. Apparently Allah once asked Jesus - did you by any chance tell men to take you and your mother as Gods??? Jesus apparently replies. I don't have the authority to say such a thing and if I did say it you would have known it. I only told them what you commanded me to tell them. Author of the quran is clearly fabricating a future conversation between Allah and Jesus to solidify his point that Jesus denied telling people to worship him and his mother as the other 2 Gods in the Trinity. This HAS to be ignorance, desperation and arrogance not Divine Wisdom.
@@mohamadkhateeb402 Not at all - but the author of the Qur'ans understanding of the Bible renders Islam false using the following hypothesis. The Qur'an confirms the Torah and the Gospel known as the Bible. If the Qur'an confirms the authenticity, preservation and authority of the bible but contradicts its core doctrines then Islam is false. If the Bible is corrupted and the Qur'an is confirming a corrupt scripture then Islam is false. Muslims insist the Bible is corrupt, which is irrelevant since any outcome will render Islam false, so Muhammed must've been false prophet. Muslims have no choice but to entertain the idea that there's an alternative explanation for the existence of the Qur'an that doesn't include divine revelation. This is a theological catastrophe for Islam and there's NO alternative explanation.
Same God same blood whether you're Muslim or Catholic you might as well face it God is God love is love even though the Catholics believe in the Holy Bible and the Muslims believe in the Quran both can come from good religions but one thing cannot come from the Muslim religion denying the Holy Trinity Father Son and Holy Spirit I recently took an interest in the Muslim religion I am Catholic and proud of it I have a problem making friends with my Catholic Brothers but I'm not going to go into that the Muslims came they talk to me we had a very good spiritual discussion Dave said in order for me to become Muslim I had to give up the Catholic faith in the Holy Trinity the Believe In Father Son and Holy Spirit and I said leave now and never come to my house again how could you give up the Holy Spirit but I believe that a bridge can be made it's not the Catholics you understand if a Muslim came into the Catholic church we would welcome them love them as a universal brother of Christ but if we went into one of their mosques they would shut us because we believe in the Holy Trinity the true Holy Trinity Father Son and Holy Spirit that's wrong
If you believe in the Coran, then you must accept, that it confirms the scriptures before it (or "in his hands"). And these scriptures say: Jesus is the Son of God. So we have Son, Father and Spirit/Ghost, three aspects of the same one and only God. In the OT / Tanakh as well, there are: God Elohim (plr.!!!), the Ruah and the Word of God (dvar YHWH). And in the Quran: Allah, Ruh (al-qudus) and Word (kalam). Everything there, eplicitely and unchanged. ^^
Thach Sinh yes the Qur'an confirms the predictions of the coming prophets and other prophecies AND is the CRITERION over them of the truth and falsehood also the gospels in the Bible are the stories of Jesus not the actual gospel or injeel which he was preaching
Surah 5:116 ... AND LO! God said: 139 "O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as deities beside God'?".... I'm not Roman Catholic, leaving aside their many heretical teachings they NEVER taught what Surah 5:116 says. So WHY does allah say it? when this never the teaching of Roman Catholics..
I used to attend Catholic church and we would say "Oh Mary Mother of God" so 1) That basically taking Mary as a god, 2) At least it is logical, if as majority of Christian doctrine teaches that Jesus is God and Mary was his mother than yes that make Mary the mother of God.
Logan Altair, you have got it wrong. A Christian would consider it blasphemy to say that Mary is God. You obviously have not looked at the doctrine of the Catholic church. It is not a doctrine or teaching of the Catholic church (or any Christian church) that Mary is part of the Trinity (in other words, God). The Bible and the Christian church (including the Catholic church) are very clear that the Trinity is only the Father, Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit (not Mary!!). Therefore, there is definitely a misunderstanding (or mistake) in the Qu'ran in that it indicates that the Trinity is the Father, Jesus and Mary. The Qu'ran's definition of the Trinity is definitely against the teaching of all Christian churches. When Catholics refer to Mary as the "mother of God", they mean "the mother of Jesus" - and that is only the human form of Jesus that she is the mother of. (In my opinion, Catholics shouldn't say this, as it is misleading). We know from the Bible that Jesus (the "Word") has no beginning. He is eternal, he always existed: John 1:1-3 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." John 1:8 - "The Word became flesh and made his dwelt among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." So we can see from the Bible that Jesus existed before he was born on earth in the flesh (to Mary). God is a spirit, so He does not have physical children as we do. Jesus is the Father's spiritual son, not His physical son. And one more thing, the three persons of the Trinity are together ONE GOD, not three gods!!! Please read the Bible for more understanding on this, not just make things up! And please look into the fact that there are thousands of ancient manuscripts of the Bible, that when compared show that the text has not been corrupted. It says the same thing today as it did then. Please do your research in this and you will find it has not been corrupted.
"John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well." Jesus was allegedly telling to his disciples, likewise if you have seen me you have seen the father. It is no wonder then Christians have a mental picture of God, as a man, like you have taken in actuality that God looks like a man. as per "John 14:9 ... Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father...."
Jesus never meant the physical state but rather his character in that, if you experience Christ's character then you have seen the Character of God which is Love.
@@peterkoome8722 _" Christ's character then you have seen the Character of God which is Love. "_ If there is a 'love' in Christian's 'god' then there is no need to kill Jesus(pbuh) to find mercy, forgiveness and salvation.
@@micheal74rich The reason you do not see it as love is because you think God killed Jesus. Jesus chose to lay dow His life willingly. He says this Himself in John 10:17-18, “17. Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” As humans, we are sinners. The only way that one can pay for their sins, is by blood, that is dying. But since God loves us so much, He did not want us to end up dead and seperatd from Him. He wanted everyone to have a chance to spend eternity with Him. So He sent Jesus to come on earth, live a sinless life and willingly take on the punishment of death for all humanity. Anyone who places their faith in Jesus is free from the punishment of sin. Given that they live a life of obedience to Christ.. Finally consider these verses from the bible and tell me if Allah has spoken such to his followers. John 15:13 - 17 " 13. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16. You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another." Anyone can become a friend of Christ. Even muslims can experience the unconditional love of Christ. It only takes faith. Believing in Christ as your Lord and savior. I hope you will not just take my words as they are but search for the unbiased truth about both Allah and Jesus of the Bible. I believe aGod is faithful to reveal the truth to you.
He does not actually adress Mary in detail.. He immediately switches to the deity of Christ and only talkes about that! There was NEVER the christian belief that the trinity consists of Mary, Jesus and the Father !!! This is hilarious! I challenge every muslim to prove historically that Christians held that belief at some time!
Collyridianism Christians took Mary as a God
Collyridianism
They use to worship mary as Goddes
Also, Even today Catholic Christians pray to Mary and call her the mother of God. Even though they do not believe she is God. But in Islam that still considered as taken her to be God. Pray is only for God. No one else.
@@bashe999 that sect isn't even said to actually have existed. As well as the fact that they wouldn't be considered christians and even if they did exist that wouldn't be representative of christian beliefs during now or then.
You cannot think more than how a chicken thinks. How do you say that you can challenge every Muslim. Your belief depends on what the Church told you and NOT what Jesus told you. No where in the Bible it says that the Trinity of GOD exists the way how you believe in.
CONCEPT OF TRINITY is a pagan concept that have been developed in Christianity over the centuries by which the Christians claim that god manifests as 3 persons. The ancient pagan religions such as the Babylonians worshiped the trinity of Nana , Shamash and Ishtar.
The Ancient Egyptians had the Trinity of Amon, Ra and Ta
Hinduism believes in the Trinity doctrine of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva
The Greeks believed in Hekate : A 3 headed goddess of night and magic
The Tribes of North Western Europe worshiped a group of 3 female deities known as MATRONY.
The Persians believed in Triad of Ahura Mazda , Mithra and Anahita.
@@RH-vr7cs the word bible doesn’t appear in the bible. Ok. God is omnipresent omnipotent but it doesn’t say that explicitly in the bible. The trinity is not pagan influenced you have been lied to . It is the most clear explanation of god if you go by the scriptures.
You Muslims aren't alone in rejecting the false doctrine of the trinity, the Bible itself not only in no way supports it but specifically contradicts it. The Catholic church kept adding human tradition to the Bible and they passed that on to their protestant successors. Praise be to Jehovah God in the name of Christ his son.
I prey that Yahweh helps get rid of the false pagan trinity from this world as fast as possible and Christendom will flourish till the day of resurrection. Love from a muslim
@@theguyver4934 A real Muslim would never use the word you used, impostors will always get exposed friend 😭
288 / 5000
a big misconception is of Muslims believe that the trinity is 3 physical / spiritual persons, the trinity is a God who has three personal of God is the Father, God the Word and God is the Holy Spirit.
in the same way that Allah is a god, Allah in heaven but is also the word of Allah here on earth and the spirit of Allah.
That’s right. Praise God.
A 𝕄𝕚𝕣𝕒𝕔𝕝𝕖
That is what the Doctrine of Trinity is.
It is a Divine Attribute. Miracles by definition don’t make sense to people.
And Muslims who believe that Mohammed flew around the Middle East on a horse shouldn’t be pointing fingers.
The fact that the Quran says that Christians worship Mary and Jesus is definitely a major red flag in terms of the author understanding what Christians believe.
But Roman Catholic Church worships Mary and Jesus 🥴.
Please check it out your self.
So don't be fooled by weak arguments which attempt to refute the Quranic views on Christianity by Christian Apologists like James White, David Wood, Jay Smith, CP, and others.
All these people know very well that Roman Catholicism worships Mary and Jesus as a god.
James White has called out the Vetican Church for this.
So ALLAH is not wrong on the Quran. Vetican Church is another sector of Christianity.
Whether you deny it or not but fact remains, they are Trinitarian Christians like you.
"Do not say 3" is in reference to all forms of Trinitarianism whether it's Christo-Trinitarianism or Pegano-Trinitarianism even those who have Million gods.
All of you are wrong.
ALLAH alone is devine.
@@islamforall437 Roman Catholics do not believe Mary is God, please provide sources you dimwit jihadi
@@islamforall437 Catholics don't worship Mary, the only ask for her intercession just like how you ask Muhammed for his intercession. Is that worship? No. Coming from a Ex-Muslim.
@@Evan_Vancomycindog Coming from an ex-Catholic, Catholics do have a strange devotion to Mary that isn't really found in other denominations, I'm not sure about Orthodoxy, but most of not all Protestants do not pray to Mary in any way ... But Catholicism does hold that Mary was born miraculously free of sin. And as far as worship goes, there was a heretical sect called the Collyridians who would offer bread as a sacrifice for Mary... They deified Mary to a point that even the Catholics couldn't accept.
i like the way shabir ally is and his understanding
Muslims should have no problem with the Trinity, not only because the Quran confirms the Spirit of Allah, and the Word of Allah, but also because the Islamic theology includes multiplicity within the single essence of Allah, if the attributes of Allah have actual existence, and actual distinction.
If I crack an egg and divide it into 3 parts (white, yolk, shell)
Did I create 3 eggs?
Nice logic.
Good job
It is not God anymore. It is a broken egg.
There are only two choices to the answer of this type of question. (Hint: yes or no).
@@skellingtonmeteoryballoonthis is why Trinity is false and cannever be true.
Nobody can explain it without using Modelism.
Rule 1 : I am the Lord your God, there is nothing like ME..... ALLAH said to all the Prophets of Israel and Muhammad
The moment you use an egg argument you have used a Model and ALLAH cannever be demonstrated with a model.
This is what always gets Christians into trouble...
Because I can take an apple, eat it and after defecating, give you stools.
Would you eat them? I mean they are still an apple isn't it🤔
So in future, never use Modelism to demonstrate the concept of God.
You will always fail.
And the moment you break an egg and divide it into shell, yalk and white it is no longer an egg but a shell, yalk and white.
And besides ALLAH is indivisible. That is why the egg argument does not work
No trace of illness Allah jallah jalahu is the only one who can current there is no cure but from him Ameen.
i think its fantastic that they are filming in a mosque and a muslimah is involved
What is wrong with this?
The worst thing you can do to a child is tell the child to memorize a book written by God-Any book! It's impedes the child's critical thinking.
What if you get to heaven and find 7 Gods with a mother and father, would you say this is ridiculously impossible -because Angel Gabriel didn't reveal this to Mohammed in the Quran, or it wasn't revealed to Moses in the book of Exodus? ! 😪
I listened to presentation carefully, and I actually am more convinced that the Quran has got it wrong...
Exactly, very sad isn't it Bob.
Alhamdullilah AllahuAkbar 🤲🏾
Does anyone realize that the Muslims criticize about the trinity..
But they don’t even realize that they themselves pray in the same way.. Trinity
Muslims don’t even want to believe that because ignorance is beyond any other ..
its a contradiction for those who have not read the Bible totally. You have to see the bigger picture. The Old Testament also speaks of different persons to God. The Unity of God is described as Echad in the Hebrew Bible, meaning a unity that can consist of more than one thing, yet they all are one unity. Even in Genesis God was said to say "Let us create man". Who was he talking to? Himself? There has always been God the Father, The Word of God (Jesus was the Word become flesh) and the Spirit.
burning bush speaking to moses while god was overlooking the world. 2 from 1.
i think its fantastic that they are filming in the mosque
How do we reconcile this passage along with other passages such as Matthew 24:36-“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone,” with the theology of the Trinity? Moreso, how do we answer objections to his equality to the Father (in divinity) within the LDS community and his actual divinity to groups just as the JWs based on these verses and others like it that appear to seperate the two person’s authority quite drastically.
In John 14:28, Jesus says, “The Father is greater than I.” For many, this statement seems obvious: Jesus is not God. But is this really what our Lord was saying?
In Catholic theology, this text can be understood in two ways. First, being “greater” than another does not have to mean one is essentially different from the other, as when we say a man is essentially distinct from an animal. Greatness can refer to one person functioning in a greater way quantitatively, qualitatively, or even relationally in comparison to another without there being an essential distinction. For example, Matthew 11:11 tells us there has never “risen among [men] a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.” John is not something other than human because he is said to be greater than certain other people. All human beings share the same nature; therefore, they are absolutely equal in dignity.
Similarly, the Father can be said to be greater than the Son pertaining to their relation within the inner life of God, but not with respect to their shared nature as being fully and equally God. The Father alone is the first principle of life in the Godhead; thus, the Catechism of the Catholic Church can say, in paragraph 246: “Everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born . . .” (emphasis added). In this sense, the Father can be said to be greater than the Son relationally, while they are absolutely equal with regard to their essence as God.
Another-and perhaps simpler-way one can legitimately interpret this text is to point out that John 14:28 seems to be emphasizing the humanity of Christ. Thus, because Jesus is fully man, it would be appropriate to say the Father would be greater than the Son. The entire verse reads: “You heard me say to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”
Jesus was emphasizing here and in previous verses his impending death, resurrection, and departure from the apostles. This would apply to his humanity most particularly. Thus, the same Jesus who can say, “I and the Father are one” in John 10:30-as God-can say, “The Father is greater than I” in John 14:28-as man.
WHY DID JESUS HIDE HIS GLORY?
Glorify the Father
Jesus hid his glory when he became a man in order to show his Father’s glory. “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him” (John 1:18). When Old Testament believers witnessed an appearance of Christ, they were often fearful for their lives. They knew that sinful man could not look upon God and live. The glory of God was also the judgment of God; the natural person who saw it died. When Moses spent forty days alone with God on Mount Sinai, it was necessary to cover his face when he came down because it reflected the glory of God. The people could not look upon God and live.
When John was on the Isle of Patmos, he too had a vision of Christ. When John saw Jesus in the full glory that was his from the beginning, John wrote, “And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead” (Rev. 1:17). When Paul had a similar vision of Christ, he was blinded with light from heaven (Acts 9:3-9). Later he wrote of being “caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter” (2 Cor. 12:4). When Isaiah saw the Lord in the temple, he cried out, “Woe is me…” (Isa. 6:1-8).If Jesus had not veiled his preincarnate glory he could not have accomplished what he came to earth to do. It was necessary for Christ to hide his glory temporarily as he sought to save the souls of men. After the work of atonement was done, he could pray, “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was” (John 17:5).
Limitations of Humanity
As a result of the incarnation, Jesus became the God-man. He was at all times both God and man as he lived on earth. When Jesus became flesh, he voluntarily subjected himself to its limitations Be. fore his birth, heaven was his throne. Now in the flesh, Jesus was limited to the distance that a man could walk on the paths of Galilee. The Son of God who created water voluntarily lived in a body that got thirsty.
Jesus was born into this world as other humans (Luke 2:120), even though his conception was supernatural. As a child he developed as every human must develop. Jesus grew in mental, physical, spiritual, and social areas of life (Luke 2:52). He had the essential elements of human nature. He was body (Heb. 10:5), soul (John 12:27), and spirit (Mark 2:8). Jesus became hungry when he did not eat (Matt. 4:2). He became tired and asked the woman at the well for water to drink (John 4:6). Throughout his life on earth, Jesus was just as human as any one of us, subject to the same emotional experiences of sorrow, pain, and hurt which any man experiences.The willingness of Jesus to limit himself to becoming a man gives us confidence that he understands the affairs of our lives. “For we have not an high priest who cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin” (Heb. 4:15). Because he has experientially known the frustrations of humanity, we have a “God of all comfort” (2 Cor. 1:3) upon whom we can depend. While those who deny his deity believe they are honoring Jesus Christ in calling him a great man, the Bible says he emptied himself voluntarily by accepting the limitations of humanity. Yet at all times he remained God.He surrendered the independent use of some attributes. Self-emptying took place also by the voluntary choice not to use certain of his attributes.
Power of the Holy Spirit
Perhaps the best expression of omnipotence is that of the miracles of God. Even though Jesus was known as a miracle worker, he performed those miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:28). He voluntarily laid aside his power to do them and relied on the Holy Spirit or the Father. On various occasions he made it clearly known he was doing the work of his Father.
“Then answered Jesus, and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise” (John 5:19).
During his earthly life and ministry, Jesus was omniscient, but did not know the time of the second coming. He was omnipresent, but when he became flesh, he limited himself to being in one place at one time. He was omnipotent, yet he prayed to God to perform the raising of Lazarus from the dead. Jesus had not lost these attributes of God, but rather, in the process of emptying himself, he chose not to use his relative attributes.
Fascinating explanation. God bless to u.
You contradicted yourself several times. For starters, how is he omniscient and still doesn't know of the hour of his second coming, since God in reality is all-knowing and incomprehensible to the human experience ? We can debunk these one by one after you answer this question.
1- CONCEPT OF TRINITY: Trinity is a pagan concept that have been developed in Christianity over the centuries by which the Christians claim that god manifests as 3 persons. The ancient pagan religions such as the Babylonians worshiped the trinity of Nana , Shamash and Ishtar.
The Ancient Egyptians had the Trinity of Amon, Ra and Ta
Hinduism believes in the Trinity doctrine of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva
The Greeks believed in Hekate : A 3 headed goddess of night and magic
The Tribes of North Western Europe worshiped a group of 3 female deities known as MATRONY.
The Persians believed in Triad of Ahura Mazda , Mithra and Anahita.
All-knowing did not know the trinity, preached by Jesus when he told us to go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Allah of Muhammad is for sure a false god
world’s oldest recorded Marian prayer. It’s the Sub Tuum Praesidium, and it goes like this:
Beneath your compassion,
We take refuge, O Mother of God [Theotokos]:
do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:
but rescue us from dangers,
only pure, only blessed one.
Recently divorced papyrus 470 from Egypt says actually Early Christians worshipped Mary as God.
Jesus Christ died and was risen for all people, all nations, and all tongues. For we are forgiven for all are sins when we repent and receive him into our hearts and lives. How amazing is that! Once we turn from are sinful nature and except Jesus Christ into are hearts he invites us into his Father’s eternal kingdom with eternal life. The Holy Spirit will guide you truth, love, and righteousness. But we must also remember to keep the faith and trust in our Lord. Living a life in obedience in righteousness! God bless all who are seeking truth in love and righteousness. Praise Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior! May God be with always!
You wana ask forgiveness or no from GOD?
If your answer is yes, if jesus died for ur sins why you want to ask forgiveness
If you said no, you have to reject bible
Whats your choise bro?
Jesus was in heaven because he became human. That way before Mary concived angel gave his name. Any prophet came from heaven. Convinced without a father. Allah and his word .read sure 4.171. John 1.1. In the beginning the word already existed. The word was with God and the word was God.
Surat 4 Ayat 171 Please read. It is there as broad as daylight.
What’s broad as daylight? There is nothing in that verse which includes Mary in trinity
Christian not believe Mary not in trinity.
It clearly says not to believe in Trinity. The word spirit in that ayat has been used as a ‘spirit’ put in Mary’s (swt) womb. As in a baby. The baby who would speak the words of God Almighty.
It literally says do not believe in trinity, and God is one and only
The child by the seaside
The story goes as follows:
While Augustine was working on his book On the Trinity, he was walking by the seaside one day, meditating on the difficult problem of how God could be three Persons at once. He came upon a little child. The child had dug a little hole in the sand, and with a small spoon or seashell was scooping water from the sea into the small hole. Augustine watched him for a while and finally asked the child what he was doing. The child answered that he would scoop all the water from the sea and pour it into the little hole in the sand. ‘What?’ Augustine said. ‘That is impossible. Obviously, the sea is too large and the hole too small.’ ‘Indeed,’ said the child, ‘but I will sooner draw all the water from the sea and empty it into this hole than you will succeed in penetrating the mystery of the Holy Trinity with your limited understanding.’ Augustine turned away in amazement and when he looked back the child had disappeared.
Augustine actually said:
I am, I know, and I will. These are three distinct realities in the inner life of me, and I am one person. In God, the distinct realities are entire Persons.
God is one God, but Three Persons. The Father is God UnBegotten The Son is eternally Begotten of the Father. The Father’s Word or what the Father “thinks”, is what I like to say. And the Holy Spirit is Spirated by the Father and the Son.
A father, a mother, and a son, make up one family unit. They are not one in essence. But God is. Three persons, one family unit. Three Persons, One Essence, one Will, One God.
God is Pure Actuality. Things cannot go from potentiality to actuality (by this I mean any change or action). If you keep going back, this cannot reasonably go back infinitely. Things cannot cause themselves to go from potentiality to actuality. There has to be a start for this chain. To be the first, This must not have been started by another thing. Therefore, What started this Chain must be Pure Actuality, God. Evil is the absence of Good, so God cannot be evil. God is therefore Good. In Christian Philosophy, God so embodies things, that God is those things (God is also omnipotent, omniscient, etc). I guess you could say they are Attributes of His Essence (this is my statement, idk, I’m really tired so might be saying wrong thing). Goodness requires love. God must be love. Love is to “Will the Good of Another”. God the Father Wills the Good of the Son, who is Himself, but also another Person. The love between the Father and the Son is described as the Holy Spirit, I personally describe the Holy Spirit as the Father and Son “thinking” of Each-Other, although that might be a bad example.
Also, can you please explain to me how the Quran is uncreated but not another eternal thing existing separately from God? Unless, like in Christianity, the Word was with God, but also God.
Jesus is the only one mentioned as sinless and Holy in ur book.Amen
Where?
all prophets are sinless in islam
[T]he Messenger of Allah (Mohammed) observed: Verily Islam started as something strange and it would again revert (to its old position) of being strange just as it started, and it would recede between the two mosques just as the serpent crawls back into its hole." [Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0270.]
Interesting
I am a Muslim and by the sound of that Hadith it definitely means what it says. Islam started as a minority faith which people viewed as strange, in the end of times only a few faithful followers will be left, hence “recede between the two mosques”
@@lightscameras4166 there is no forgiveness of sins I'm islam. There is no mercy. Islam is about destruction.
levicus john Umm so please explain why there are numerous events of God forgiving people. Tell me why does every chapter in the Quran start with “In the name of Allah, the most Compassionate, the Most Merciful”? Why is Allah called “Ash-Shakur” (the forgiving), Ar-Rahman (The Compassionate), and Ar-Raheem (The Most Merciful) in the Quran.
God is infinitely forgiving, and no Islam is not about destruction, that’s what you’d like to think and fool yourself into, your opinion has no relevance
@@lightscameras4166 If islam is all about the all compassionate God, is capable of bringing so much destruction throughout history(in the name of islam and allah, for jihad)
Then what do u wanna say about jesus christ and his teachings, a radical christian will only love and forgive even more. I dont think u can say the same about a radical muslim.
Dear Sir, The Holy Trinity, is The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. Our mother is not included in The Holy Trinity.
Christian’s don’t know anything about the Quran. Nowhere does the Quran mention who is in the Christian trinity. (1) Quran 5:116 doesn’t say Mary is apart of a trinity (2) Christians take Jesus as a deity alongside god and Catholics take Mary as a deity alongside God (3) People say catholics don’t worship Mary as god but catholics kneel before Mary and ask her for intercession and in Islam this is worship (4) In Collyridianism they worshiped Mary as a God. So the Quran doesn’t make any mistake.
Abraham’s Visitors.
Genesis 18
1 The LORD appeared to Abraham by the oak of Mamre, as he sat in the entrance of his tent, while the day was growing hot.
2Looking up, he saw three men standing near him. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to greet them; and bowing to the ground,a
3he said: “Sir,* if it please you, do not go on past your servant.
4Let some water be brought, that you may bathe your feet, and then rest under the tree.
5Now that you have come to your servant, let me bring you a little food, that you may refresh yourselves; and afterward you may go on your way.” “Very well,” they replied, “do as you have said.”
6Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah and said, “Quick, three measures* of bran flour! Knead it and make bread.”
7He ran to the herd, picked out a tender, choice calf, and gave it to a servant, who quickly prepared it.
8Then he got some curds* and milk, as well as the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them, waiting on them under the tree while they ate.
9“Where is your wife Sarah?” they asked him. “There in the tent,” he replied.
10One of them* said, “I will return to you about this time next year, and Sarah will then have a son.” Sarah was listening at the entrance of the tent, just behind him.
The Quran on the Christian concept of the Trinity is wrong. No amount of mental gymnastics can get around this fact
If the God of Koran is omniscient, would he ask Jesus if he taught people to worship him, and Mary besides God? No. An all knowing God would never ask such a question. Jesus never taught that Mary was divine - pl read the new testament to know that. Then what is Biblical Trinity - is it an invention of man or revelation of God. You want a loving Father as God revealed through Jesus Christ, or a vengeful being who destroys everything that does not submit or worship to him? Then why did he create us with a freewill?
Does the OT reveal Trinity? No, but speaks of ‘Yahweh’ becoming man.
Yes - almost all books of the Old Testament foretell the God of Israel coming in flesh a revelation of his self-giving love that God revealed in Jesus. If anyone thinks it is blasphemy to call Jesus God, then the large number of Old Testament prophecies about ‘Yahweh’ coming to the earth will contradict themselves and end-up as mere pagan myths of the Jews! (Or the alleged corrections Jews made in their scripture to support incarnation of God).
Why? Though the Hebrew prophets were monotheistic in their belief, they declared about “Yahweh’ coming to this earth in their prophecies - there are over 300 Messianic prophecies in the Old Testament concerning Messiah, some of them are:
Numbers 24:17 - "I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near; A star shall come forth from Jacob, A scepter shall rise from Israel, and shall crush through the forehead of Moab, and tear down all the sons of Sheth.”
Isaiah 7:14 - "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.”
Isaiah 9:6 - “For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.”
Isaiah 11:1 - “A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.”
Isaiah 42:1 - “The Servant - Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.” (Jesus came as a servant).
Isaiah 50:6 - “The suffering Servant - I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.” (Trial of Jesus)
Isaiah 53:3-7 - “He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief;
And like one from whom men hide their face; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities. The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep that have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; like a lamb that is led to slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.”
Jeremiah 23:5 - “The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.”
Daniel 7:13 - "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Psalm 80:17 - Let Your hand be upon the man of Your right hand, Upon the son of man whom You made strong for Yourself.
Psalm 110:1-2 - “The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for Your feet. The LORD will stretch forth your strong sceptre from Zion, saying, “Rule in the midst of your enemies.”
Micah 5:2 - “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”
Zechariah 9:9 - “Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion! Shout, Daughter Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and victorious, lowly and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”
Zechariah 2:10-11: Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares the LORD. “Many nations will join themselves to the LORD in that day and will become my people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you.
Zechariah 13:7 - Awake, sword, against my shepherd, against the man who is close to me!" declares the LORD Almighty. "Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn my hand against the little ones.
Psalms 22:16-18 - For dogs have surrounded me; a band of evildoers has encompassed me; They pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones. They look, they stare at me; they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots. (David never experienced such events in his life, but he wrote prophetically about the Messiah).
Zechariah 12:10 - And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. (If Jesus is not God - who Israel has pierced?).
Malachi 3:1 - “I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty.
Finally, one test to all those believe and fear God. If you think God is omnipotent, let all the killing of enemies and blasphemers be done by God himself and not by man. That would stop all wars!! Since man cannot create life neither can he destroy life. The righteous judgement of God hangs on people who kill others. Get ready to meet the righteous Judge of all men.
a lot of whar you are talking about is coming from european versiion of persian mithraism
Problem is Mary's supposed divinity is stated within the context of referring directly to the trinity in the versus prior.
The context is the trinity.
Sorry, ch5:71-78.
Later froM vs 110 it brings up jesus and Mary and how God showed them favour. This is a narrative/story of the food sent down as a sign that they are not "Gods", but merely rely on God
Sorry but yeah the Quran just plainly gets it wrong it's arguing against a strawman.
It's embarrassing historically to state that Christians referred to Mary as divine before Islam. It is of no weight if there is a heretical sect.
Universe=time,space,matter 3=1 Why can't god be the same?
3=1?????
They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. - Quran 5:73
Trinity in the Quran cuz Allah is the third of the three 😂
@@leeeel9786 it refers to the THEY, the disbelievers...who say Allah is third of 3...
Lee Eel They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.
@@kayka5090 4:171: "The Messiah, Jesus , the son of Mary , was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul from Him.
1: Jesus as a son of Mary and a Messenger
2: Jesus before he was born he was a word of allah
3: and he is a soul from Him (Allah)
So i can count 3 in 1 in the quran :D
Muslins don’t want trouble admit it but they do pray in trinity
I served 4 years in the chaplain corps and I’m still a reverend, rewatching these videos is always been in lighting to our beliefs. “All praise to Father God”, “Allah Akbar” “laus Deo”.
1- CONCEPT OF TRINITY: Trinity is a pagan concept that have been developed in Christianity over the centuries by which the Christians claim that god manifests as 3 persons. The ancient pagan religions such as the Babylonians worshiped the trinity of Nana , Shamash and Ishtar.
The Ancient Egyptians had the Trinity of Amon, Ra and Ta
Hinduism believes in the Trinity doctrine of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva
The Greeks believed in Hekate : A 3 headed goddess of night and magic
The Tribes of North Western Europe worshiped a group of 3 female deities known as MATRONY.
The Persians believed in Triad of Ahura Mazda , Mithra and Anahita.
@@RH-vr7cs add to that Santa and Christmas 😀
Thanks to Allah for guidance
HE is "GOD" therefore his power is unlimited he is omnipotent. He can multiply himself many times, but still one. He can multiply many times, you can name them JESUS if you like.
Trinity, 3 in one explanation is as follows: As GOD he can multiply himself and still equal to one.. 1x1x1=1.(1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1=1) , Now, Although the GOD the Father is higher in Authority, JESUS is one with the FATHER, and HOLY SPIRIT is the action and the Words. Meaning, they are like a family. THE FATHER is the TOP, but they act as one as they have one goal, one will, and act and speak as one, because they think as one, and the will of the other is the same as the other. So, you can consider no matter how big the number a family, or a community has as long as they have one will, speak as one, and act as one you can consider that they are one. If one member, meaning JESUS CHRIST may think differently and temporarily not one with the FATHER,..... HE HAS to speak and pray to the FATHER explaining his thinking and asking the FATHER if HIS thinking is right that he may align his thinking with the HOLY FATHER, if the FATHER see that JESUS thinking is right that thinking will join as one. The HOLY SPIRIT do the action. I hope this clear everything. TO GOD be the glory, JESUS is our saviour. HE speaks the TRUTH. May HE be with us all.
"John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well."
Just don't forget, this is what is found in Hinduism and Mithraism, man-god and images of God.
If you were take literally Jesus is God as per "John 14:7" then verse is direct contradiction to Numbers 23:19, yet this verse does not say: "I am the God and worship Him alone".
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man,...
Ok I will. In fact I'll first go to the book you quoted, Isaiah (starts with ISA ;) ) which is filled with prophecy about the Messiah: chapther 9 verse 6: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." And now read John 14:8-9 where Philips asks Jesus to see the father and Jesus says "Philip, you still don't know me?" There's more ifyou want.
I love how he listed every counsel and by ~450AD they had “come to an understanding” regarding the trinity😂 Eluding to the fact the trinity was fully understood by ALL councils of the Church however acknowledges that the Qur’an failed to address (accurately) the trinity that is understood plain and clear in the writings. Gosh, being a Muslim trying to make all this make sense has to be tiring!
Yes. Muhammed misunderstood the trinity. It’s okay Muslims. It’s not necessarily the easiest concept to grasp but just because something might not make sense at first or is hard to understand, doesn’t negate its authenticity/truth.
Read a Bible and find out for yourself why it’s so obvious Jesus/Yeshua/Isa declared equality with the Father!
They believe in one god not the same as ours, but one.. but they do pray in trinity..
The best thing about shabir is that his answer has no answer. He didn't talked much about Quran being wrong about the trinity and Mary being the part of trinity.
You are wrong!
@@waymilky442 you just copied him right now . 😂 No argument at all .
Just you're wrong.
Thanks I'm delighted by your response
IF YOU HAVE DOUBTS ABOUT TRINITY please read John 17:1-5 and Mark 12:29-37 and John 6:44 in which Jesus himself, he is the one talking in these verses, he says he is the Son of God. He says Father gave him His glory and authority to resurrect us and you know, only God can resurrect us. If Jesus, as Eternal Son who inherited everything from the Eternal Father has the authority to resurrect us, Jesus is God. Read this as many times as you need, pray for the Holy Spirit to help you understand it.
A 𝕄𝕚𝕣𝕒𝕔𝕝𝕖
That is what the Doctrine of Trinity is.
It is a Divine Attribute. Miracles by definition don’t make sense to people.
And Muslims who believe that Mohammed flew around the Middle East on a horse shouldn’t be pointing fingers.
The Trinity is the Father (God), the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit.
It doesn't make logical sense, bro
Only God is God... beside Him all are just part of His creations. The holy spirit is NOT a single tittle for a particular divine person. Holy spirit sometimes refers to God or some aspect of His Powers or sometimes it pertains to Angels, especially the arch-angel Gabriel.
God is One in Person & in Being.... He is undivided. He is Just One.... never in the holy Scriptures did God or any false gods are described as composite-beings. The term “god” is understood by the Jews, Samaritans & the early Christians to be just one person... and by linguistic meaning it pertains only to one person... TRINITY is confusing & a FAILURE.
To one who has faith, in the Trinity, no explanation is necessary. To
one without faith, no explanation is possible.
QURAN SHOWS ALLAH IS MORE THAN TRINITY, BUT "FOUR-NITY"
You say that in contrast to Christianity, Allah is not a trinity. Yes, you are very right. That is what makes our God to be the Almighty. That is what makes our God a mystery. Any God that is not a mystery ceases to be the Almighty.
Indeed, the Quran says Allah is not a trinity and that Allah doesn't have a son. The Quran is right.
However, do you realize that the Quran shows that Allah has daughters - 3 daughters. This is what the pagans of Mecca believed because they had been worshipping these deities. These daughters are - AlLat, Al uzzah and Al Manat as we see in Sura 53:19-22. Some even say Al-Lat (female version of Al-Lah) is actually the wife of Al-Lah because the word is the feminine form of 'AlLah'.
So, 3 goddesses plus Allah making 4 deities. So, while Muslims say Allah cannot have a son, they should know he has 3 daughters according to the Arabian pantheon. So, Allah plus 3 other goddesses equal how many gods? That is a "four-nity" or quadrinity instead of a "trinity". What the Quran says is that it is unfair for pagans to assign only daughters to Allah when they themselves detest daughters in their families:
"Have you ever thought about al-Lat and al-Uzza, and about the third deity, al-Manat? Shall you have the male issues (offspring), and He the female issues? That is indeed an unfair division!" (Surah 53:19-23).
In other words, why is it that it u6s only daughters thst Allah have and not sons? Arabs love sons more than daughters. But they say onky has only daughters. Allah says he is not happy snout this. It is a "unfair division"
2of2: "The second person in the Trinity came in the flesh"
A person is complete separate entity & so you don't have one God but rather three. You have three distinct mental pictures forming in your mind when you think of three separate entities & forever & ever they will remain as three not one, but your empty words says as one but your thinks three.
You analyze NT, a position given to Jesus is not co-equal to God at Mark 24:36. So you can't have the cake & eat it same time. Trinity is fake.
Trinity means Father ,son and the holy spirit
No...the Trinity is true. Just because you do not understand something that doesn't make it false.
@Jesus, name above all names Isaiah 45-5 I am the LORD, and * there is no other* ; *There is no God besides Me* . I will gird you, though you have not known Me,
Exodus 20-3 *You shall have no other gods before me* .
Deuteronomy 4:35 To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD Himself is God; *there is none other besides Him* .
Deuteronomy 4:39 "Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the LORD, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; *there is no other* .
Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the *LORD is one* !
1 Samuel 2:2 There is no one holy like the LORD, Indeed, *there is no one besides You* , Nor is there any rock like our God.
2 Samuel 7:22 For this reason You are great, O Lord GOD; for *there is none like You, and there is no God besides You* , according to all that we have heard with our ears.
Psalm 83:18 That they may know that *You alone* , whose name is the LORD, Are the Most High over all the earth.
Psalm 86:10 For You are great, and do wondrous things; *You alone are God* .
Isaiah 43:10 "You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and *believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me* .
2 Kings 19:15 ... *You are God, You alone* , of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth.
Nehemiah 9:6 *You alone are the LORD* ; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all. The host of heaven worships You.
Isaiah 37:20 "Now, O LORD our God, deliver us from his hand that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that *You alone, LORD, are God* ."
There are ton more verse exists in the OT, that God is one and only.
"God does NOT HAVE CHILDREN. No one says that he does"
"That would mean all sons of God are being blasphemous."
If you are saying Jesus is only begotten son of God is not blasphemy? Your believe isn't consistent.
Why it is necessary if God do not need a son, to paint a picture that Jesus is only divine or being begotten son of God?
You mean God take human forms come to Earth, like in Hinduism & Mithraism?
Please come back & answer my question, I want to, get to the bottom of this matter.
Begotten is not a real word.....its a fabrication, interpolated idea.... Allah swt does not lower himself to the standard of man, eat, drink, PROCREATE, that would mean he is not Omnipotent.
Check out this video it will help:
ruclips.net/video/o2iDPPabxyk/видео.html
It’s the oneness of Allah within Jesus and the Holy Spirit
Has Islam Misunderstood Christianity? by Bassam Zawadi
Argument no. 2: The Qur’an Identifies the Trinity as Allah, Jesus, and Mary
Nowhere do the Islamic sources explicitly identify the three persons of the Trinity. It is not even in Islam’s interest to do so. Islam is mainly concerned with denouncing concepts and beliefs and not delving into any unnecessary details. It’s not essential to identify the three persons of the Trinity and then condemn that Trinity concept when you have already made it clear that Allah is one person.
When we look at Surah 4, Ayah 171 and Surah 5, Ayah 73 where the Trinity is being alluded to, we don’t see Mary’s name being mentioned as one of the three. The Qur’an treats the issue of the Trinity and Mary’s being taken as a god as two separate themes.
Surah 5, Ayah 116 states: “And when Allah will say:”O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto men: ‘Take me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?’ “He will say: “Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say).”
This is simply a verse disapproving of the worship of Jesus and Mary besides Allah and also exonerates Jesus from having advised his followers to worship him and Mary. There is no allusion to the doctrine of the Trinity in this verse. Also, the idea of Mary being taken as a God could be understood in more than one sense. If one refers to Surah 9:31 and 25:43, one could see that when the Qur’an refers to someone or something being taken as a god, it doesn’t always mean so in a literal sense, but that this someone or something is treated in a way that only God deserves to be treated.
Similarly, one could be open to the possibility that when Surah 5, Ayah 116 talks about Mary being taken as a god, that it doesn’t mean so in the literal sense, but that there are those treating Mary in a way that only God deserves to be treated just like with the Catholics and their excessive venerations of Mary.
Professor of Christianity and Islam at the University of Birmingham, Dave Thomas, said in his article entitled “Trinity” in the Encylopedia of Islam vol 5, pages 369-370 in regards to Surah 5, Ayah 116:
“Strictly speaking, this verse need not be read as a reference to a version of the Trinity but rather as an example of shirk, claiming divinity for beings other than God (see Idolatry and Idolaters). As such, it could be understood as a warning against excessive devotion to Jesus and extravagant veneration of Mary, a reminder linked to the central theme of the Qur’an that there is only one God and he alone is to be worshipped (see worship).
….. and then he continues on to say:
If, on the other hand, there is no sectarian version of Christian doctrine being addressed in this verse, it need not be read as a rejection of a deviant doctrine of the Trinity but as a denial that Jesus and Maryam are equal with God, and a warning (q.v.) against making excessive claims about them. Thus, it can be understood as an instance of the warning against the divinization of Jesus that is given elsewhere in the Qur’an and a warning against the virtual divinization of Mary in the declarations of the fifth-century church councils that she is theotokos, “God-bearer.”
Islamic historian Heribert Busse said on page 23 of his book, Islam, Judaism and Christianity: theological and historical affiliations:
“There is reference in the Koran to an odd understanding of the Trinity. God asked Jesus if he taught the following: “Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God” (5:116). Jesus answered negatively, of course. The obvious assumption here, that Muhammad made a mistake in listing the three persons of the one Godhead, can be countered with the assumption that the reference was to the Collyridians, a Christian sect that worshipped the Virgin Mary.”
He then continues on to say:
“With respect to the cited Koran passage, Muhammad was most likely referring to such a Christian sect. This is in any case more plausible than assuming that the Prophet defined the Trinity in such an erroneous manner out of pure ignorance.”
Indeed, it’s highly unlikely that the author of the Qur’an would have made this mistake, especially since we have no record of any Christians arguing this point against Muhammad (peace be upon him), while Islamic sources have not shied away from mentioning Christian arguments against Muslims, and plus, there were Christian converts such as Salman Al Faarisi, ‘Adi ibn Hatim, and others who were around that could have corrected the Prophet (peace be upon him), but they never did because they didn’t understand the Qur’an to be saying that Mary was part of the Trinity.
Qur’anic exegete Imam Al-Tabarani said in his commentary on Surah 5, Ayah 116 that even if there were no people today who claim that Mary is God, then surely it’s bound that some in the past must have done it. This shows that grammatically and textually speaking, one is not bound to interpret the Qur’an as referring to all Christians. Rather, it is condemning the belief and not pinpointing exactly who it is that held this belief. It’s possible to say that it is a reference to the Collyridians, just as Islamic historian Heribert said, or could possibly be a reference to the Catholics as Professor Dave Thomas suggested.
The next verse in question is Surah 5, Ayah 73, which states: “Surely, disbelievers are those who said: “Allah is the third of a three.”
Professor Dave Thomas, on page 369 of the same article, said in regards to Surah 5, Ayah 73:
“It has been suggested that this verse criticizes a deviant form of Trinitarian belief which overstressed the distinctiveness of the three persons at the expense of their unity as substance (Masson, Coran, 93; Watt-Bell, Introduction, 158). It has also been noted that, in fact, this is not a reference to the Trinity but to Jesus, who in Syriac literature was often called “the third of three” (Griffith, Christians and Christianity, 312-13). By this reading Q 5:73 must be seen as constituting part of a sustained criticism of the belief in the divinity of Christ that occupies the whole of Q 5:72-75, i.e. an emphatic repetition of the criticism in verse 72 that God and Christ are identical (see Christians and Christianity; Polemic and Polemical Language).”
Again, this goes to show that the verse is not clearly saying that all Christians believe that Mary was part of a Trinity. Some have argued that because two verses later in Ayah 75, the Qur’an presents an argument against Mary’s divinity that this means that Ayah 73 is identifying Mary as one of the three. However, this connection is not clear. If one were to read Ayah 72, he would observe that the Qur’an is condemning a belief different from the one in Ayah 73. Hence, just because Ayah 75 condemns the belief in Mary’s deity, that doesn’t necessarily imply that it has to do with the people being addressed two verses prior in Ayah 73.
The next verse in question is Surah 4, Ayah 171, which states, “O people of the Scripture! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah Jesus son of Mary, was a Messenger of Allah and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary and a spirit created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: “Three!” Cease! It is better for you.”...........
Please go islamicdiscourse.substack to read the rest of the article.
the quran also talks abotu a holy spirit, the catholics worship mary but not part of a trinity,
Rafael Princ explanation is not is not new but you are still missing the point as a whole, as Rafael Princ explanation is to basically reinventing a theologically position for Jesus which does not exist in the Bible, beside something so fundamentally important could not have left to reinvention or vague interpretation but it must be in crustal clear as Ten Commandments.
■ I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
■ You shall have no other gods before me.
"so now you do agree that the NT says Jesus is the Son who is the Father?"
God is free from any need including need to beget a son. Yet in Biblical language, the Bible has got sons of god in tons.
Exodus 4:22 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, 23 and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me."
Jews are the God?
"Make up your mind then."
You still cannot produce a verse Bible says, this: "I am the God and worship Him alone".
No...that verse you have mentioned from the Bible is wrong...God tells Moses to tell pharaoh..."let my people go"(Exodus 5:1, 7:16). The part where God refers to the Israelites as His son(Exodus 4:22-23) God says that they are His first born sons as they are the first nation that He had taken inorder to mould them into a people He wanted.
For the last part...there are many verses where it is written that God alone is to be worshiped.
Psalms 86:10 "For You are great, and do wondrous things; You alone are God."
Isaiah 37:20 "Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that You are the LORD, You alone."
New testament
1st Timothy 1:17" Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen."
Jud 1:25 "to God our Savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen."
"its a contradiction for those who have not read the Bible totally."
Believes and principles must be coherent one place to another.
John 14:7, does not say "I am the God and worship Him alone" yet John 14:7 is direction contradiction to verse at Numbers 23:19.
Either you believe Jesus is man-god or you disregard the Numbers 23:19 as did not come from God and you cannot have both ways.
How is it that you can rebuke the Trinity so much when it's plain for you ALL to see 1+1+1 DOES equal 1.Look at everything that's in existence for example... everything is made up of Trinitarian qualities. Think about it for 1 minute (or 3)..ok... TIME, SPACE & MATTER, the 3 building blocks of existence which cannot exist without each other , Time has 3(past/present/future) space has 3(Length/width/height) & Matter also has 3(Solid/Liquid/Gas) That's a Trinity of Trinities....Now...think about this as well .... Father/Mother/Child which were Made In the IMAGE OF THE CREATOR which happen to be the 3 building blocks of Humanity' continuous existence, only can exist within a Trinity of Trinities. Look you cannot use the Bible against its own teachings, that's what the devil does, but that aside , you are right about one thing, The Messiah Jesus Christ did worship one God, He called him Father. Is that the God you worship? If so, why don't you call him FATHER then??...I dare you too. I HAVE TO WARN YOU ASWELL GUYS, PLEASE Be careful , The LORD GODS WORD CONCERNING BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT IS CONSIDERED AN UNFORGIVABLE TRESPASS AGAINST THE LORD HIMSELF.
May you be guided to the TRUTH
THROUGH THE GLORY AND TRUE MAJESTY OF THE FATHER THE SON AND HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST WHO IS HUMANITY'S ONE AND ONLY LIVING OPTION TO ETERNAL LIFE WITH OUR CREATOR
King Nimrod started the Muslim (soi 19) and Catholic mother and son religion, it is not Christianit or from the Bible.
Mother and son worship is a perfect example of how Satan has set up a counterfit religion. His plan is to make a copy of Gods plan but make it so that humans will worship him.. As you will see in almost every religion there is a mother and child. It all leads back to the mother goddess of Babylon, as I mentioned in this site, after the death of Nimrod, his adulterous wife gave birth to a child who she claims was supernaturally conceived. She taught that Tammuz-the son was a God child; that he was Nimrod, reborn and that her and her child were divine. Thus establishing MOTHER AND CHILD WORSHIP.
Numerous monuments of Babylon shows the Goddess mother Semiramis with her child Tammuz in her arms.(picture to the right) Remember at the time when they built the tower of Babel God changed their languages and they were scattered throughout the earth. God did not change there mind set just their languages, they took with them the worship of the divine mother and god-child with them. This explains why all nations, in one way or another worshipped a divine mother and god child.
Among the Chinese, the Mother Goddess was called Shingmoo or the "Holy mother." She is pictured with child in her arms and rays of glory around her head. The ancient Germans worshipped the Virgin "Hertha" with child in arms. The scandinavians called her "Disa" who was also pictured with a child. The Etruscans called her "Nutria" and among the Druids, the "Virgo-Paritura" was worshipped as the "Mother of God."
Can I ask what is the understanding of Muslim about trinity?
"May Jesus bless you."
If you had said God bless you, it is accepted for muslims, but "May Jesus bless you." it is an insult to muslims, while Jesus himself said "Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good, but one, that is God Luke 18:19.
Beside, I know sure, that God didn't subjected mercy and salvation upon crime against humanity in the killing of Jesus, while God do not honor, endorse, accept evil barbaric killing a human being i.e. killing Jesus.
Jesus had all the human attributes his not god but a messenger of God
U are talking about what people say. Thats not what we believe.
Trinity is mentioned letter by letter twice in the QUR'AN, and Allah Subhana WaaTala condemed it, and at that time the Trinity is not yet coined by the Christians but it is recorded in the QUR'AN before the christians invented it, so the Prophet Muhammad PBUH knows that someday this Christians will believe in the Trinity, and it did come true
Fool. The point is if allah is all-knowing, why he and mohammed was wrong when they discussed it.
No such thing as a trinity exists. Trinity is a big lie. There is only one God creator of everything in the universe including Jesus worthy of worship alone. However the Quran did not define what the trinity doctrine is correctly. It defined it as Father, Mother, Son or Allah, Jesus, and Mary. Christians never believed this from the time of Jesus upto now. They believe the trinity is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Look at how the Christian so confuse about trinity. I bet Dr.Shabir could not comprehend it himself, one God but three, three but one but three god in one.
Trinity is not biblical. There is only One God, and Son of God.
It's clear the quarn got it wrong.
"Muhammad cannot be meant with the verses i gave you. He cannot be called the Everlasting Father can he?"
Which government was under the Jesus?
So your claim goes nowhere.
Learn English!
Quran never get trinity right
This doesnt make any sense, there hasnt been any christian group ever except for an unconfirmed small group in 4th century AD mainly composed of women that may have worshiped Mary as God, and that group would not have lasted long enough for Muhammad to see, if it even existed at all. And even if that group was real, why would he speak to a extremely small amount of christians who were dead before Muhammad was even born, when the overwhelming majority of christians before, during, and after Muhammeds time never worshiped Mary? It is clear that Muhammad understood the trinity as father, mother, and son. Not father, son, and holy spirit like 99.99999 of christians have since the trinity has been accepted by christians even before Muhammad was born. If Muhammad meant to just simply show that the trinity was not real, he would have simply said it is not real, instead he chooses to go into specifics of the trinity and gets it wrong.
I don't feel good I am sick.
I was called a mad man for saying all of this lol
3of3) God do not encourage people to commit evil, therefore Jesus' death in most humiliated way was work of bad Jewish people, could not have come from God, and attributing it unto God as if that God wants Jesus be killed for sins of humanity was even greater evil.
Further saying that God have a son is an accusation against God; it is like attributing human-like and animal-like properties (i.e. having sons and daughters) unto God is unforgiving sin. Christians do not realize this.
I don't want to know "he said or she said" verses. Where is the verse in the Bible Jesus himself says "I am the God and worship Him alone".
Remember I said, God do not beat around the bush, when it comes to His identity.
"the government shall be upon his shoulder:"
Jesus was not a political leader and nor did Jesus father a child on Earth. It is not what Jesus said, what I requested for and this ambiguous verse can be applied to anyone included to the Prophet Mohammed.
google james white trinity quran or read is book 'what every christian needs to know about the quran'. Ally and James White have debated. You can also see one of their debates. Ally is not spot on at all. He can try to explain the embarassing truth away all he wants.
so now you do agree that the NT says Jesus is the Son who is the Father? Make up your mind then ;) You're all over the place. And no we do not believe we know what God looks like. Yes i know many ppl make portraits of Jesus' face. First of all they are portraying Jesus' human bodily face, not God's face. Secondly its not Biblical to even presume we know what Jesus' human body looked like, let alone God's appearance. So, next question.
Jesus has visited so many
People eveven in these
modern time.He live foever
N ever
Amen. 🙂
Jesus is Lord. God bless you.
☦️💙🙂
@@gherieg.1091
Those are christian jinns
The Quran never definds the Trinity as God, Jesus and Mary instead it is calling those like the Prostestant who say andbelieve Jesus is God and the Catholics who believe Mary is the mother of God not to take human beings as god. They all call themselves Christians. The Quran did not get it wrong you need to think of something that makes sense to yourselves cause the Trinity does not.
Paul I thought the Quran was understandable? If the Quran contradicts what christians believed in its time then theres something non-understandable in the Quran.
Why does a ALL CLEAR book need one of its core teachings of shirk, that it got wrong, to be explained?
There is a BIG problem with your book.
that's his daughter, so I'm sure he's used to it, lol
world’s oldest recorded Marian prayer. It’s the Sub Tuum Praesidium, and it goes like this:
Beneath your compassion,
We take refuge, O Mother of God [Theotokos]:
do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:
but rescue us from dangers,
only pure, only blessed one.
Recently divorced papyrus 470 from Egypt says actually Early Christians worshipped Mary as God.
Trinity was there, God said let us create man in our on imagine
And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden? (Koran 5:116)the verse in the Quran he is so clearly referencing the trinity I can't believe this was his answer. here " this is so clearly referencing the trinity, incorrectly, why wouldn't it mention the Holy Spirit as some separate 'god which muslims think christians believe. Wouldn't the Quran want to dispel this belief as well ? It seems gravely important information to let on. Plus not one christians takes Mary as a divine being. No one was worshiping Mary like a god its called reverence. Just like muslims have reverence for Muhammad even if he wasn't god.
Debate Christian Prince
"I and the Father (GOD) are one"
Jesus also have said that he and father and 12 disciples are one.
So you believe 12 disciples are God as well?
You are not consistent with your believes and comparing verses one to another.
Jesus also said "Why do you call me good? Only One is good. To enter eternal life you must follow the commandments." and he preached Islam all throughout the gospels. Christians however want to focus on the rare contradictory verses about his crucifixion, and not Jesus's actual teachings--they won't _read_ their gospels.
Because He(God) loved you and made atonement on your behalf. What is love then? The greatest form is to die for someone.
This was Gods greatest love and He foretold that to father Abraham when he asked to offer his only son and received him back from death (figuratively speaking). He was the one walking with Adam in the Eden before Adam sinned. He was the one foretold when Adam sinnned that he will (seed of woman) crush the head of serpent and get bitten on heel ( so there is a cost for crushing serpents head).
There are many more verses foretold about God in flesh. I was blinded earlier by my hardness but I am thankful to Most high for His love and for letting mercy triumph over judgement. It makes you have that beautiful relationship with Father and worship him in truth and in spirit.
I pray to God that we are led to Him. May Glory belong to him now and forever. Amen.
Come on!! Where and who dare says that the disciples are one. You understand little of the Bible and yet you claim that you speak the truth concerning it. There is no Christian who has ever held that belief
@@jareddeleon8836 am sorry but Jesus never said that to enter heaven you must follow the commandments. He said that the only way to enter heaven is by being born again(spiritually) John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
.....please make sure your argument is supported by evidence.
@@Beq4tb yes He is God
The Quran definitely was wrong about the trinity. It tells the quran is definitely not written by the all-knowing God!
you did not watch the video , right
@@gamalsaad1545 I watched the video in which Shabir Ally explained that the concept of the trinity in the quran was what some christians believed at the time of Mohammed, so the quran wasn't in error. But that argument falls flat in that the council of Nicaea which came up with the term 'trinity' was convened by emperor Constantine between May 325 AD and August 325AD and mohammed was born in 570AD. So during mohammed's time the concept of Trinity was known to be the Father, son and holy spirit and not Father, son and Mary. So, if mohammed claims to have that revelation from Allah, then Allah should have known what the christians believed and not indicate the trinity as Father, son and Mary! If we should believe Shabir ally the from the quran it means the islamic god Allah agrees with the trinity as spelt out by the christians. Either way, the quran fails since either it is wrong or it affirms the trinity. That tells it cannot be the infallible word of the Creator. Period.
@@relax0180 dude there was christian converts among mohammed companions also several christian arabian tribs in arabia and a lot of jews in medina , arab were defintely familiar with concept of trinity so quran did not even want to explain it , quran is concern about shirk associating partners with allah or treating some individuals in way only god deserve to be treated
all arabs were pagan and quran focus on the types of paganism and they are all false
@@gamalsaad1545 Read your own quran about the trinity.
Surah 4:171
O People of the Book! Do not go to extremes regarding your faith; say nothing about Allah except the truth.1 The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger of Allah and the fulfilment of His Word through Mary and a spirit ˹created by a command˺ from Him.2 So believe in Allah and His messengers and do not say, “Trinity.” Stop!-for your own good. Allah is only One God. Glory be to Him! He is far above having a son! To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And Allah is sufficient as a Trustee of Affairs.
This part sums up the trinity in your own quran:
... Allah and the fulfilment of His Word through Mary and a spirit ˹created by a command˺ from Him..
Thus, Allah, his(Allah's) word and his (Allah's) spirit.
So, the trinity is about the same supreme being, his word and his spirit. And NOT different beings.
Lol trinity in Quran is a joke. Trinity is no where mention in the Quran.
The trinity is not in the holy Bible
@@theguyver4934 agree trinity was developed by romans and gentiles
@@phenomenal17playz - If it makes you feel better than there are many christians who believe that jesus (PBUH) was only a human
@@theguyver4934 I know that I studied about early Christianity. :)
@@phenomenal17playz - I prey that Allah swt helps our christian brothers get rid of the false pagan trinity and biblical unitarianism will flourish
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.
:27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as His mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
:20 But while Joseph thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, you son of David, fear not to take unto you mary your wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Look, I see four men loose, walking in the middle of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
Jesus said in John 10:30 I and My Father are one.
& John 14:11 Believe Me that I Am in the Father, and the Father in Me: or else believe Me for the very works' sake.
Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why had Satan filled your heart to "lie" to the "Holy Ghost," and to keep back part of the price of the land?
:4 Whiles it remained, was it not your own? and after it was sold, was it not in your own power? Why had you planned this thing in thine heart? You had not "lied" unto men, but unto "God."
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me.
2 John 1:9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
John 15:26 But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify of Me.
Jesus said in John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which you gave me; and they have received them, and known surely that "I came out from you," and they have believed that you did sent me.
2 Corinthians 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raises the dead:
Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead;)
Acts 13:30 But God raised Jesus from the dead:
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and will you rear it up in three days?
21 But Jesus spake of the temple of His body.
1 John 3:16 Hereby Perceived we the love of God, because he laid down His life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Romans 8:11 But if the "Spirit" of Him "that raised up Jesus from the dead" lives in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead will also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that lives in you.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto Jesus, my Lord and my God.
:29 Then said Jesus to Thomas, Thomas because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
2 Corinthians 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
Romans 8:11 But if the "Spirit" of Him "that raised up Jesus from the dead" lives in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead will also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that lives in you.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto Jesus, my Lord and my God.
:29 Then said Jesus to Thomas, Thomas because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
:4 In whom the god(Satan) of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all mankind see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
John 15:26 But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify of Me.
Jesus said in John 20:22 And when he had said this, He breathed on them, and says unto them, Receive you the Holy Ghost:
1 CORINTHIANS 12:3 Therefore I give you to understand, that no mankind speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, except by the Holy Ghost.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.
John 14:15-:17 If you love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees Him not, neither knows Him: but you know Him; for He lives with you, and shall be in you.
Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God live in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, that person is none of His.
Psalm 78:41 Yes, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.
89:18 For the Lord is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
Isaiah 14:20 That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the Lord has done this, and the Holy One of Israel has created it.
43:15 I am the Lord, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your king.
Habakkuk 1:12 Are you not from Everlasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One? We shall not die. O Lord, you had ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, you had established them for correction.
Mark 1:22 And they were astonished at Jesus Doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.
:23 And there was in there synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out.
:24 Saying, let us alone; what have we to do with you, you Jesus of Nazareth? Are you come to destroy us? I know you who are, the Holy One of God.
Luke 4:32 And they were astounded at his doctrine: for his word was with power.
:33 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had the spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,
:34 Saying, let us alone; what have we to do with you, are you Jesus of Nazareth? Are you come to destroy us? I know you who you are; the Holy One of God.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said, Father, into your hands I commend my Spirit: and having said this, He gave up the Ghost.
Jesus said in John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to you. Holy Father, keep through Your Own name those whom you have given Me, that they may be one, as We are One.
John 17:20 neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which will believe on Me through their word;
:21 That they all may be one; as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, That they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that You have sent Me.
:22 And the glory which you gave Me I have given them: that they may be one, even as We are One:
;23 I in them, and You in me, that they may be made perfect in one: and that the world may know that You had sent Me, and have love them, as you have loved Me.
You please forward one verse in the Testament, where Jesus, himself says that "I am the God and worship Him alone".
In Old Bible, God was not beating around the bush about His identity as stated as below, since it is the most important concept in faith to understand who truly God is & it should not be left to vague narratives or interpretation.
Isaiah 41:13 "For I, the LORD your God,"
Secondly, God didn't subjected mercy & salvation upon crime against humanity in the killing of Jesus.
I'm a little late . I come in peace in the name Yahweh. Yahweh or YHWH. Do
Exodus 3 13, to 15 .. The Devine name revealed. Then read bottom of footnote. This should clarify things.
@While we were yet sinner, Christ died for us
Likewise Jesus himself did not say "I am God that you worship me alone".
Jesus himself was saying as per John 5-30, he cannot do anything out of his own free will, except what God wants him to do.
Jesus himself refused to take credit for being called as a "good master, why do you call me good?" Mark 10-18.
Whereas God says, all praise belong to God alone. Isaiah 42-8, it was God Himself saying it.
Whereas God have power over everything and God is not a man according to OT and God cannot contradict Himself, then HE is not God.
@@bartbattista6295 If you want to make peace with your Creator, then you have one option before you, it is to accept Islam and practice Islam.
Are you Christian or Jewish?
@@bartbattista6295
Originaly the bible was gods word until your secret society devil worshiping priests introduced other doctrine which you passed off as the word of god.
@@micheal74rich Practicing Islam is rebelling against God.
Jesus says “no one comes to the Father but through Me”.
There’s no Jesus is Islam.
Come to Jesus. He’s ONLY in the Bible.
3 in 1 is not 1+1+1, it is 1*1*1 which is 1
it’s three different things 1 is 1 if it’s the same it’s like apple mango and kiwi you can’t say 1x1x1
If it was mango mango mango u can say 1x1x1
Jesus loves all humans, even Muslims. Jesus loves the humble hearts, up to this moment He is working to redeem all humanity even those people who hate Him much. He appeared to many faithfully Muslims already who wishes to be enlightened by God's will. Fairly enough He argued with some of them to clear their doubts. Call Him now He will show you the way to God. He said who sees Him has seen His Father, for the Father is in Him and He has known everything the Father does. If you guys are serious about God, under prayers look for Him. Jesus will be with you even in the mosque when you call His name, heartily.
Thank you for your comment! Muslims love and revere Jesus, on whom be peace. He is mentioned frequently in the Quran and given great prominence and respect.
Indeed. Jesus is one of the biggest prophets in Islam and he will be ready to forgive even Christians when the time comes, if they are pure of heart and not bent on sticking to pagan trinitarianism ❤
@@phillipholland6795 What relevance does his forgiveness have after death? isn't it allah who will judge you after death?
@@Terkel152 Of course, that is called the final judgement. The one that resolves who ends up where. On this Earth, in this life, most of us wait for Jesus/Isa to return and unite the good Christians and Muslims and denounce the corrupt ones. He will be the one to bring justice in this mortal life and set the tyrants straight. It's in the doctrine of both religions, the only difference being the question of his "Godhood". Muslims believe him to be the second highest prophet in rank, and Christians believe him to be a literal offspring of the Almighty.
@@phillipholland6795 anywhere i Can text you?
How the yahweh and allah become same??
Different languages.
Elohim
There same there both the God of arbaham both eternal same God
Different linguistics different names for the One and same Creator. The beauty of the word ALLAH is that has no gender and no plural.
Look I was pointing out to you that I recognize your arguments from Deedat and that you have nothing new to tell me. That was the point in me saying that. Also: You are making mental pictures the criterium for monotheism haha. That's very funny. I dont care how many mental pictures of God you have. It's not a counting game. We are not toddlers. Count 50 mental pictures if you want. It's still ONE GOD. May Jesus bless you.
world’s oldest recorded Marian prayer. It’s the Sub Tuum Praesidium, and it goes like this:
Beneath your compassion,
We take refuge, O Mother of God [Theotokos]:
do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:
but rescue us from dangers,
only pure, only blessed one.
Recently divorced papyrus 470 from Egypt says actually Early Christians worshipped Mary as God.
One God friend in mystery!!!
Government trying to kill me vibration my feet.
What?
Mark chapter 1 it says
"a voice of one calling in the wilderness, 'Prepare the way for the Lord(Jesus), make straight paths for him(Jesus).'". This is a quotation of Isaiah 40:3. A voice of one calling:
“In the wilderness prepare the way for the LORD (God) ;make straight in the deserta highway for our God. Therefore in the very beginning of Mark Jesus is God.
Mr you didn't study the Gospel.
You worship Yahweh. Exodus 3 13 ,15 The Devine name revealed.. then read the footnote bottom of page. YHWH. Or Yahweh. We don't no Allah.
The Bible really doesn’t matter. It is filled with contradictions. Its a useless corrupted book. Maybe if there weren’t so many alterations I’d trust it but there are so yeah.
@@bartbattista6295 different bloody languages
HE is "GOD" therefore his power is unlimited he is omnipotent. He can multiply himself many times, but still one. He can multiply many times, you can name them JESUS if you like.
Trinity, 3 in one explanation is as follows: As GOD he can multiply himself and still equal to one.. 1x1x1=1.(1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1=1) , Now, Although the GOD the Father is higher in Authority, JESUS is one with the FATHER, and HOLY SPIRIT is the action and the Words. Meaning, they are like a family. THE FATHER is the TOP, but they act as one as they have one goal, one will, and act and speak as one, because they think as one, and the will of the other is the same as the other. So, you can consider no matter how big the number a family, or a community has as long as they have one will, speak as one, and act as one you can consider that they are one. If one member, meaning JESUS CHRIST may think differently and temporarily not one with the FATHER,..... HE HAS to speak and pray to the FATHER explaining his thinking and asking the FATHER if HIS thinking is right that he may align his thinking with the HOLY FATHER, if the FATHER see that JESUS thinking is right that thinking will join as one. The HOLY SPIRIT do the action. I hope this clear everything. TO GOD be the glory, JESUS is our saviour. HE speaks the TRUTH. May HE be with us all.
Answer is at 2:43.
Nope! You're wrong mate. The Quran is actually wrong about the trinity, please don't try to invent arguments.
world’s oldest recorded Marian prayer. It’s the Sub Tuum Praesidium, and it goes like this:
Beneath your compassion,
We take refuge, O Mother of God [Theotokos]:
do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:
but rescue us from dangers,
only pure, only blessed one.
Recently divorced papyrus 470 from Egypt says actually Early Christians worshipped Mary as God.
@@Peter_gorge mate, I don't know which history book you're reading, but the fact is that early Christians never worshipped Mary. Maybe you're confusing what the roman catholic does today. Regardless, even if they did worship Mary (WHICH THEY DIDN'T) that still doesn't prove that the trinity was Jesus, Mary and God, in fact, no one has ever seen the trinity like that apart from Mohammed.
@@servantofjesus9642 you are absolutely wrong. Please look at Wikipedia or different renowned websites about sub tuum praesidum. Sub turn praesidum which says protect us from danger mother of God is recited in catholic churches. In it people prayed to Mary to remove their sorrow. Mary was goddess in early Christianity. Read my other comment. About part of trinity actually there was disagreement about what will be the status of holy ghost before Nicea convention. There were heretic Christianity than. Moreover Quran doesn't say that trinity consist of father, son and Mary. Wrong. Read the verse again. It says Mary and Jesus will deny that they claimed divinity. Another verse says it is better for the people of book to say three Mary son father. It forbids to say that. There were people at that time and long before in early Christianity people said holy ghost female and they worshipped Mary as goddess. What that proofs?To verify it search google. It is the power of God that he knew about it and we are getting evidence in 1917.God bless you bro.
@@servantofjesus9642 give a reference of a verse that say trinity means father mother son.
As C. S. Lewis pointed out, if Jesus is not God, then Jesus is the worst of liars and untrustworthy in every way.
• If Jesus is not God, then the apostles would likewise have been liars.
• Jesus had to be God because the Messiah was promised to be the “Holy One” (Isaiah 49:7). Since no one on earth is righteous before God (Psalm 53:1; 143:2), God Himself had to enter the world as a human.
• If Jesus is not God, His death would have been insufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only God Himself could provide an infinite, eternally valuable sacrifice (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21).
• God is the only Savior (Hosea 13:4; cf. 1 Timothy 2:3). If Jesus is to be the Savior, then He must be God.
Jesus had to be both God and man. As God, Jesus could satisfy God’s wrath. As a man, Jesus had the capability of dying. As the God-man, Jesus is the perfect Mediator between heaven and earth (1 Timothy 2:5). Salvation is available only through faith in Jesus Christ. As He proclaimed, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).
I microchip in my brain satillite trying to kill me with music.
This college kid @RohullahMojaddedi says the same thing about cybertorture
I cannot believe that a scholar like Ally can lie that blatantly and suggest that the Council of Nicea had anything to do with a supposed devolopment of the idea of the Trinity. What a disappointment.
15:28 - Allah breathes his spirit onto Adam thus creating him
12:91/66-12 - Allah breathes into Mary and creates Jesus.
19:16-21 - Allah sends down a spirit who appears to Mary, breathes into her and creates Jesus.
Therefore this spirit is another God capable of creating life.
17:85 - Contrary to scholarly consensus, this spirit has been identified as not being Gabriel
If it is Gabriel then Gabriel is Allah - already identified in 12:91/66-12 as the One who breathed life.
4:171/58:22 - Jesus is Allah's spirit and his Word breathed into Mary giving rise to Jesus
Therefore, according to the Quran, Jesus is Allah.
Jesus can be part of the spirit of God without being God himself. Very simple and obviously the Quran is not preaching polytheism so I don’t know how you came to this conclusion
@@mohamadkhateeb402 1. You made an assertion that is not in the Qur'an. Where does Allah say Jesus is part of the spirit without being God?
The Quran doesn't preach polytheism but it's clear from the readings the author is trying to appease Christian doctrine otherwise he would've rejected it completely.
The Quran itself admits Jesus is much more highly elevated than Muhammed which explains why Christians rejected him. He kept on stating the obvious instead of wholesale dismissal which would've been smarter.
@kajoli khatunSorry man, got verse numbers mixed.
15:28-29 - When I have shaped him, and breathed My spirit in him, fall you down, bowing before him!
21:91 - And she who guarded her virginity, so We breathed into her of Our spirit and appointed her and her son to be a sign unto all beings
19:17 - "Roohana" is used from the root meaning spirit or soul. If Allah wanted this soul to mean the Angel Gabriel he could've said Jibril, and we know he is perfectly capable of saying Jibril to avoid confusion. Could've even used Malik which means Angel and we know Jibril is an Angel.
The author of the quran is trying to mirror heretical Christian beliefs and getting it horribly wrong.
@@mohamadkhateeb402 A 𝕄𝕚𝕣𝕒𝕔𝕝𝕖
That is what the Doctrine of Trinity is.
It is a Divine Attribute. Miracles by definition don’t make sense to people.
And Muslims who believe that Mohammed flew around the Middle East on a horse shouldn’t be pointing fingers.
@@gherieg.1091 i never insulted the trinity or Christianity so why are you insulting my religion. I was simply responding to his comments about the Quran
Let me simplify this for muslims with clear understanding.
Muhammed/author of Quran and the Trinity.
If Allah revealed the verses relating to the Christian doctrine of the Trinity then it shows ignorance on the part of Allah, so the only logical conclusion is that Muhammed/Arabs inserted these verses themselves based on what they knew about Christianity, and the Quran makes much more sense using this hypothesis. Let's analyse using objective logic and reasoning instead of what we want to feel to be true.
6:101 - The author of the quran thinks Allah could not have had a son since he has no sexual partner (mate) - therefore Jesus can't be Allah's biological son. At what point did Chistians insist had God had a partner in order to produce Jesus?
4:169-171 - Author of the quran says Jesus was created from Allah's spirit and then still rebukes the Christains for saying "Three"(Gods). Christians believe in ONE God that has 3 natures just as muslims believe he has 99 Names. Allah/Muhammed didn't understand this concept.
5:73 - Author of the quran rebukes the Christains for saying Allah is the third of 3 Gods, so who then are the other 2 Gods?
5:75 - Jesus and Mary can't be Gods as they "both ate food" like mortals.
5:17 - Author of the Quran, still struggling to understand the the concept of the Trinity, says Allah can kill the the other 2 gods Mary and Jesus and all mankind - in order to prove he has no partners. Charming
5:116-117- Author of the quran now really confused so throwing in the kitchen sink. Apparently Allah once asked Jesus - did you by any chance tell men to take you and your mother as Gods???
Jesus apparently replies. I don't have the authority to say such a thing and if I did say it you would have known it. I only told them what you commanded me to tell them.
Author of the quran is clearly fabricating a conversation between Allah and Jesus to solidify his point that Jesus denied telling people to worship him and his mother as the other 2 Gods in the Trinity.
al-Zamakhshari (b - 1075) commentary.
'The gods are three.' ACCORDING TO THE EVIDENCE OF THE QUR'AN, the Christians maintain that God, Christ, and Mary are three gods, and that Christ is the child of God by Mary, AS GOD SAYS (in the Qur'an): ‘O Jesus son of Mary, didst thou say unto men: "Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God"?’ (Sura 5:116), or: ‘The Christians say: "The Messiah is the Son of God"’ (Sura 9:30)
You seem to misunderstand that the Quran beautifully reaches out to the Christians by showing them that what they have done to Jesus is not too different from the pagans. Any breaking down of Allah is believing in more than one God. Literal sonship is not the point.
Are you ex Muslim by the way? Your name is Majeed
@@mohamadkhateeb402 The Quran doesn't beautifully reach out to anyone except make erroneous assertions about Christian doctrine which further alienates the Christians it's trying to guide. A catastrophic error in judgement
Consider these objectively with an open mind.
6:101 - The author of the quran thinks Allah could not have had a son since he has no sexual partner (mate) - therefore Jesus can't be Allah's biological son. At what point did Christians insist God had a partner in order to produce Jesus?
4:169-171 - Author of the quran says Jesus was created from Allah's spirit and then still rebukes the Christians for saying "Three"(Gods). Christians believe in ONE God that has 3 natures just as muslims believe he has 99 Names. Author did not understand this concept.
5:73-4 - Author of the quran rebukes the Christians for saying Allah is the third of 3 Gods, so who then are the other 2 Gods?
5:75 - Jesus and Mary can't be Gods as they "both ate food" like mortals.
5:17 - Author of the Quran, still struggling to understand the the concept of the Trinity, says Allah can kill the the other 2 gods Mary and Jesus and all mankind - in order to prove he has no partners. Again, Christians have NEVER believed in 3 separate Gods.
5:116-117- Author of the quran now really confused so throwing in the kitchen sink. Apparently Allah once asked Jesus - did you by any chance tell men to take you and your mother as Gods???
Jesus apparently replies. I don't have the authority to say such a thing and if I did say it you would have known it. I only told them what you commanded me to tell them.
Author of the quran is clearly fabricating a future conversation between Allah and Jesus to solidify his point that Jesus denied telling people to worship him and his mother as the other 2 Gods in the Trinity.
This HAS to be ignorance, desperation and arrogance not Divine Wisdom.
@@mohamadkhateeb402 I'm a secular Muslim. I do the cultural stuff for family reasons but completely reject the belief aspect.
@@majeedm689 So are you a Christian
@@mohamadkhateeb402 Not at all - but the author of the Qur'ans understanding of the Bible renders Islam false using the following hypothesis.
The Qur'an confirms the Torah and the Gospel known as the Bible. If the Qur'an confirms the authenticity, preservation and authority of the bible but contradicts its core doctrines then Islam is false. If the Bible is corrupted and the Qur'an is confirming a corrupt scripture then Islam is false.
Muslims insist the Bible is corrupt, which is irrelevant since any outcome will render Islam false, so Muhammed must've been false prophet.
Muslims have no choice but to entertain the idea that there's an alternative explanation for the existence of the Qur'an that doesn't include divine revelation.
This is a theological catastrophe for Islam and there's NO alternative explanation.
Shabir the coward..why you cancelled the debate with cp.....???none of muslims dare to debate cp???.....damm
Trinity means Father, son and the holy spirit
Same God same blood whether you're Muslim or Catholic you might as well face it God is God love is love even though the Catholics believe in the Holy Bible and the Muslims believe in the Quran both can come from good religions but one thing cannot come from the Muslim religion denying the Holy Trinity Father Son and Holy Spirit I recently took an interest in the Muslim religion I am Catholic and proud of it I have a problem making friends with my Catholic Brothers but I'm not going to go into that the Muslims came they talk to me we had a very good spiritual discussion Dave said in order for me to become Muslim I had to give up the Catholic faith in the Holy Trinity the Believe In Father Son and Holy Spirit and I said leave now and never come to my house again how could you give up the Holy Spirit but I believe that a bridge can be made it's not the Catholics you understand if a Muslim came into the Catholic church we would welcome them love them as a universal brother of Christ but if we went into one of their mosques they would shut us because we believe in the Holy Trinity the true Holy Trinity Father Son and Holy Spirit that's wrong
Think if matter we say there three state of matter
If you believe in the Coran, then you must accept, that it confirms the scriptures before it (or "in his hands"). And these scriptures say: Jesus is the Son of God. So we have Son, Father and Spirit/Ghost, three aspects of the same one and only God. In the OT / Tanakh as well, there are: God Elohim (plr.!!!), the Ruah and the Word of God (dvar YHWH). And in the Quran: Allah, Ruh (al-qudus) and Word (kalam). Everything there, eplicitely and unchanged. ^^
Thach Sinh yes the Qur'an confirms the predictions of the coming prophets and other prophecies AND is the CRITERION over them of the truth and falsehood also the gospels in the Bible are the stories of Jesus not the actual gospel or injeel which he was preaching
there are 2 plurals in arabic and hebrew: plural of more than 1 and plural of respect😉
Christian Prince challenge you to debat him but as he said you refused
Surah 5:116 ... AND LO! God said: 139 "O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as deities beside God'?".... I'm not Roman Catholic, leaving aside their many heretical teachings they NEVER taught what Surah 5:116 says. So WHY does allah say it? when this never the teaching of Roman Catholics..
I used to attend Catholic church and we would say "Oh Mary Mother of God" so 1) That basically taking Mary as a god, 2) At least it is logical, if as majority of Christian doctrine teaches that Jesus is God and Mary was his mother than yes that make Mary the mother of God.
Logan Altair, you have got it wrong. A Christian would consider it blasphemy to say that Mary is God. You obviously have not looked at the doctrine of the Catholic church. It is not a doctrine or teaching of the Catholic church (or any Christian church) that Mary is part of the Trinity (in other words, God). The Bible and the Christian church (including the Catholic church) are very clear that the Trinity is only the Father, Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit (not Mary!!). Therefore, there is definitely a misunderstanding (or mistake) in the Qu'ran in that it indicates that the Trinity is the Father, Jesus and Mary. The Qu'ran's definition of the Trinity is definitely against the teaching of all Christian churches. When Catholics refer to Mary as the "mother of God", they mean "the mother of Jesus" - and that is only the human form of Jesus that she is the mother of. (In my opinion, Catholics shouldn't say this, as it is misleading). We know from the Bible that Jesus (the "Word") has no beginning. He is eternal, he always existed:
John 1:1-3 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."
John 1:8 - "The Word became flesh and made his dwelt among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
So we can see from the Bible that Jesus existed before he was born on earth in the flesh (to Mary). God is a spirit, so He does not have physical children as we do. Jesus is the Father's spiritual son, not His physical son. And one more thing, the three persons of the Trinity are together ONE GOD, not three gods!!! Please read the Bible for more understanding on this, not just make things up! And please look into the fact that there are thousands of ancient manuscripts of the Bible, that when compared show that the text has not been corrupted. It says the same thing today as it did then. Please do your research in this and you will find it has not been corrupted.
"John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well."
Jesus was allegedly telling to his disciples, likewise if you have seen me you have seen the father.
It is no wonder then Christians have a mental picture of God, as a man, like you have taken in actuality that God looks like a man.
as per "John 14:9 ... Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father...."
Jesus never meant the physical state but rather his character in that, if you experience Christ's character then you have seen the Character of God which is Love.
@@peterkoome8722 💖
Amen. ☦️
???
@@peterkoome8722 _" Christ's character then you have seen the Character of God which is Love. "_
If there is a 'love' in Christian's 'god' then there is no need to kill Jesus(pbuh) to find mercy, forgiveness and salvation.
@@micheal74rich The reason you do not see it as love is because you think God killed Jesus. Jesus chose to lay dow His life willingly. He says this Himself in
John 10:17-18,
“17. Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
18. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
As humans, we are sinners. The only way that one can pay for their sins, is by blood, that is dying. But since God loves us so much, He did not want us to end up dead and seperatd from Him. He wanted everyone to have a chance to spend eternity with Him. So He sent Jesus to come on earth, live a sinless life and willingly take on the punishment of death for all humanity. Anyone who places their faith in Jesus is free from the punishment of sin. Given that they live a life of obedience to Christ..
Finally consider these verses from the bible and tell me if Allah has spoken such to his followers.
John 15:13 - 17
" 13. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16. You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another."
Anyone can become a friend of Christ. Even muslims can experience the unconditional love of Christ. It only takes faith. Believing in Christ as your Lord and savior.
I hope you will not just take my words as they are but search for the unbiased truth about both Allah and Jesus of the Bible. I believe aGod is faithful to reveal the truth to you.