My SENSORY TRAINING WEEK for an EFFECTIVE freestyle stroke (from coaching over 3000 people): www.thefrenchswimcoach.com/ (including the MAGIC PALM exercise in video)
4:30 If you watch many of his swims carefully you will notice that he breaths every 2 strokes, but he alternates which side he breaths to, typically after the turn, depending on the race conditions. So he was completely comfortable breathing to either side. Another unique quality of the Thorpedo.
Swam with a guy at VA Tech who swam in California with perhaps the first swimmer to do long fly kicks underwater - this was late 70s, early 80s. It translated very well to backstroke, and the "Berkoff Blastoff" was one of the first times it was seen on a world stage. I had age groupers using it in 81, much to the derision of the local swim community - but I never claimed to have invented it. Watching the fly kick begin with the hands - perhaps 8-14 inches - was something new. (Except to sea mammals, who lead with their heads!) In the masters swimming magazine, there were pictures of a VA Masters swimmer, CS, whose ankles were unbelievably floppy - but whose times were unbelievably fast!
Your experience is super interesting, thank you for sharing it! I also think that other coaches in the world had already thought about the magic palm ;-)
Btw, I tried the "palm to the sky" drill you keep mentioning for a few sessions now. I like it. And I think I get why it helps the catch, both in term of feeling it in the water and also understanding it conceptually. But it's a bit difficult to explain with just text and no visual aids. I used to be able to do 10 strokes over a 25m when aiming for minimum stroke count. Rotating the palm to the sky I get the same (i.e. I cannot yet go lower), but it feels a bit easier, despite the initial awkwardness of doing something unusual.
@@TheFRENCHSwimCoach I was talking to a friend from the pool and I guess the best way to explain the benefit of the "magic palm" is that it puts the hand and forearm in alignment, i.e. the ideal relative position they are in at the end of the catch. So if you start with palm facing up and you just focus on getting your palm to feel pressure (without moving it relative to your forearm), then it will guide your entire forearm to where it needs to go for an effective "high elbow" catch. Conversely, If you start from a "normal" full reach position (i.e. palm facing down), then you can get immediate pressure on the palm by tilting it down and dropping the elbow, which is not what you want to do. But proprioception is difficult and I find that the palm has good sensory feedback (that's why pressure on the palm is easy to feel, but pressure on the forearm, not so much). Reading back what I just wrote, I guess it's not too clear, so it proves what I said before: it's difficult to describe in just words, lol. 🙂
I am watching his kick. The #1 kick on the breathing side, he does a high amplitude flutter kick, or a small scissor kick. Back side foot, which is far more stream lined than his front side thigh, sweeps pretty far back.
I tend to think about riding my ribs, like a canoe, instead of pushing my chest down. This requires more mobility or range of the serratus anterior muscles, particularly the middle and top "fingers" of the muscle.
I was lucky enough to work with Ian at his peak. I spoke to him about his head position. He said that he wanted to keep his kick lower. I even asked him to get his head down to see how ot worked. Obviously, it didn't work as well as it did with his head up. He pressed down on his clavicles.
@@TheFRENCHSwimCoach yes good when doing drills for that purpose. But they don't have the core and kick to maintain a good position. So they often need fins to compensate.
I wonder why that is. I wonder if it is because he can have more pressure and force from the legs, if looking forward and not as flat in the water if he was looking down. Thorpes 800m races from 2001 is some of the best freestyle technique - soft and gentle feet. You can see how much feeling and sensation he must have had on his feet.
Sometimes when I am feeling low I write down questions in my head I would ask my favourite swimmers about their technique. I’ll add this to my Thorpe list 😊
More under water is in theory better, however in the actual olímpics they rise the head but try to over extend and dig for maximum momentum One thing in Thorpe is that his kick is too separate
100m freestyle kick 1:30. My pb currently as a 47 year old is 1:02 long course. I'm not very good at kick and get tired easily - I'd consider myself much more efficient at the pull and arm stroke
@@TheFRENCHSwimCoachhmm my kick is like 1.55 and 100m 1.46. That's just pushing off from the wall doing sets like 10x50. So I feel I should be faster on 100m any ideas why my kick and 100m sets are so close in time?
@@andys2856 it's crazy to have such a small gap...I've already seen that and you swim "upside down": propulsion with the legs. Concentrate on the arms, namely catching and accelerating the movement underwater without worrying about the legs (it will coordinate itself)
With a board, I kick (100y) 2:30 all out and more like 2:45-3:00 usually! My kick is atrocious even though I am a former bike racer whose lower body strength far exceeds my upper body.
Have you tried kicking on your side, with your lower arm outstretched and the surface-side arm at your side? If you practice a quick short amplitude kick from the hip with little knee flexion (and maximum ankle flexibility) in the above position without the need for a kick board, you will improve your freestyle kick power and endurance. This is because you are kicking the resistance of water that is not cavitated or filled with air/bubbles. Of course as always in swimming efficiency, you will strive to maintain a streamlined position by keeping your head stationary and low in the water and breathing when needed, curling your mouth a little to capture air in the bow wake formed by your head and surface-facing shoulder. I think our host swim coach will concur with these thoughts.
@@stuartlichty4250 thanks for the great suggestions! I have (in the past) done "six kick switch" drills but almost always with Zoom fins on. In fact, I have pretty much thrown in the towel with kick sets and only do them with fins on now. I'm usually doing around 2:00/100 kicking with a board and I think 1:45 ish may be the fastest I can do at max effort
Those are fair remarks, but I don't consider those to be swimming skills. Sure, you need a good dive and turn to get the best possible time, but those are only because of the artificial constraint of the limited size pool.
My SENSORY TRAINING WEEK for an EFFECTIVE freestyle stroke (from coaching over 3000 people):
www.thefrenchswimcoach.com/
(including the MAGIC PALM exercise in video)
4:30 If you watch many of his swims carefully you will notice that he breaths every 2 strokes, but he alternates which side he breaths to, typically after the turn, depending on the race conditions. So he was completely comfortable breathing to either side. Another unique quality of the Thorpedo.
Really? Do you have a video on this?
You had it in your Video. Sydney Olympic final and WR. 400m free. Then Manchester Com Games 3:40 WR. Bi lateral per lap.
@@trn8061yep ! Thx
OK, thx !@@trn8061
Yeh I noticed this too, each lap he breathes to a different side.
Swam with a guy at VA Tech who swam in California with perhaps the first swimmer to do long fly kicks underwater - this was late 70s, early 80s. It translated very well to backstroke, and the "Berkoff Blastoff" was one of the first times it was seen on a world stage. I had age groupers using it in 81, much to the derision of the local swim community - but I never claimed to have invented it.
Watching the fly kick begin with the hands - perhaps 8-14 inches - was something new. (Except to sea mammals, who lead with their heads!)
In the masters swimming magazine, there were pictures of a VA Masters swimmer, CS, whose ankles were unbelievably floppy - but whose times were unbelievably fast!
Your experience is super interesting, thank you for sharing it! I also think that other coaches in the world had already thought about the magic palm ;-)
Btw, I tried the "palm to the sky" drill you keep mentioning for a few sessions now. I like it. And I think I get why it helps the catch, both in term of feeling it in the water and also understanding it conceptually. But it's a bit difficult to explain with just text and no visual aids.
I used to be able to do 10 strokes over a 25m when aiming for minimum stroke count. Rotating the palm to the sky I get the same (i.e. I cannot yet go lower), but it feels a bit easier, despite the initial awkwardness of doing something unusual.
10 strokes is good! Congratulations! The magic palm is a preliminary step to catch ;-)
@@TheFRENCHSwimCoach I was talking to a friend from the pool and I guess the best way to explain the benefit of the "magic palm" is that it puts the hand and forearm in alignment, i.e. the ideal relative position they are in at the end of the catch. So if you start with palm facing up and you just focus on getting your palm to feel pressure (without moving it relative to your forearm), then it will guide your entire forearm to where it needs to go for an effective "high elbow" catch. Conversely, If you start from a "normal" full reach position (i.e. palm facing down), then you can get immediate pressure on the palm by tilting it down and dropping the elbow, which is not what you want to do. But proprioception is difficult and I find that the palm has good sensory feedback (that's why pressure on the palm is easy to feel, but pressure on the forearm, not so much).
Reading back what I just wrote, I guess it's not too clear, so it proves what I said before: it's difficult to describe in just words, lol. 🙂
I think I understand. Thank you for the feedback@@allydea
@@allydeai think i understand
I am watching his kick. The #1 kick on the breathing side, he does a high amplitude flutter kick, or a small scissor kick. Back side foot, which is far more stream lined than his front side thigh, sweeps pretty far back.
Yes, well done, to balance what is happening with the arms. I talked about it on some of my FR videos, some of which I will translate in due time. Thx
I tend to think about riding my ribs, like a canoe, instead of pushing my chest down. This requires more mobility or range of the serratus anterior muscles, particularly the middle and top "fingers" of the muscle.
I was lucky enough to work with Ian at his peak. I spoke to him about his head position. He said that he wanted to keep his kick lower. I even asked him to get his head down to see how ot worked. Obviously, it didn't work as well as it did with his head up. He pressed down on his clavicles.
Okay, interesting! I also think it helps some people (maybe not Ian) to catch better (thanks to their sense of sight)
@@TheFRENCHSwimCoach yes good when doing drills for that purpose. But they don't have the core and kick to maintain a good position. So they often need fins to compensate.
I wonder why that is. I wonder if it is because he can have more pressure and force from the legs, if looking forward and not as flat in the water if he was looking down. Thorpes 800m races from 2001 is some of the best freestyle technique - soft and gentle feet. You can see how much feeling and sensation he must have had on his feet.
Head looking forward can create a better pull posture(think about how the body is positioned during a pull-up)
Sometimes when I am feeling low I write down questions in my head I would ask my favourite swimmers about their technique. I’ll add this to my Thorpe list 😊
this guy was all about hip driven technique and maxed kick
feet driven ;-)
awesome video
Thx !
Please analyse Florian Wellbrook in 1500m
More under water is in theory better, however in the actual olímpics they rise the head but try to over extend and dig for maximum momentum
One thing in Thorpe is that his kick is too separate
Thanks for your comment. It makes me think ;-)
GOAT
In freestyle 200-400 yes !
The closer to 15 meters underwater on every turn is where the time drops will come in the future.
Exactly, swimmers without fast UW will no longer be there...
only him,,wearing full suit at that time,,way a head of his time indeed
he swam fast even in classic swimsuit
His suit was a joke in comparison to the high tech suit which were used in the 2008 Olympics
100m freestyle kick 1:30. My pb currently as a 47 year old is 1:02 long course. I'm not very good at kick and get tired easily - I'd consider myself much more efficient at the pull and arm stroke
the difference is not too high in my opinion between your 2 times. I had some swimmers at +1'30 in kick and under 55 in full swim, even at 50-51
@@TheFRENCHSwimCoachhmm my kick is like 1.55 and 100m 1.46. That's just pushing off from the wall doing sets like 10x50. So I feel I should be faster on 100m any ideas why my kick and 100m sets are so close in time?
@@andys2856 it's crazy to have such a small gap...I've already seen that and you swim "upside down": propulsion with the legs. Concentrate on the arms, namely catching and accelerating the movement underwater without worrying about the legs (it will coordinate itself)
25 years ago my 50m kick pb was 27. Never did 100m but I couldn't see it being anywhere near 1:00. 😂
awesome !@@trn8061
How to get fast kick Like Thorpe any suggestions
Improve the flexibility of the ankles a little and strength in the legs
get some flippers?
Focus on it at practice every day every practice. The more you do the more you put in the muscle memory bank.
I do 100 yards kick in 1:06 and swim 100 yards in 49.0 200 yards in 1:46.1 500 4:48.1 size 10 shoe. I think I’m bad at kick ?
I don’t know my meters kick time, and my pbs are old. But I go 57.7 2:03.1 and 4:24.3 in the free style events
I think I'm on the same times as you in meters (50 to 100) but perhaps a little slower in kicks. How long ago ?
With a board, I kick (100y) 2:30 all out and more like 2:45-3:00 usually! My kick is atrocious even though I am a former bike racer whose lower body strength far exceeds my upper body.
Improve the flexibility of the ankles a little
Have you tried kicking on your side, with your lower arm outstretched and the surface-side arm at your side? If you practice a quick short amplitude kick from the hip with little knee flexion (and maximum ankle flexibility) in the above position without the need for a kick board, you will improve your freestyle kick power and endurance. This is because you are kicking the resistance of water that is not cavitated or filled with air/bubbles. Of course as always in swimming efficiency, you will strive to maintain a streamlined position by keeping your head stationary and low in the water and breathing when needed, curling your mouth a little to capture air in the bow wake formed by your head and surface-facing shoulder. I think our host swim coach will concur with these thoughts.
@@stuartlichty4250 thanks for the great suggestions! I have (in the past) done "six kick switch" drills but almost always with Zoom fins on. In fact, I have pretty much thrown in the towel with kick sets and only do them with fins on now. I'm usually doing around 2:00/100 kicking with a board and I think 1:45 ish may be the fastest I can do at max effort
Size 16 feet.
Look at his shoulders
his whole body is made for swimming ;-)
He went under 3:40 in training
When ?!
He didn't break 3:40 in training. He did break his 200m wr in training though. He could swim incredibly fast in training.
By today's standards some of his technique is kind of bad especially the dive and underwater. He'd probably be even faster with modern technique.
Hes not breaking dowm his djve and underwaters though hes breaking dowm his catch
wich part exactly for you in the dive or UW ?
@@TheFRENCHSwimCoach The two feet at the front and his head and arms not being locked on the uw.
@@hallockstuart7899 I wonder about locking the arms precisely because it gives mobility (but I think I agree with you on this point)
Those are fair remarks, but I don't consider those to be swimming skills. Sure, you need a good dive and turn to get the best possible time, but those are only because of the artificial constraint of the limited size pool.