My way to describe would be that writing with a Pilot is smooth and buttery, the broads are great for shading inks. The Sailors have a nib to paper tactile feel not scratchy but toothy, great for smaller handwriting and journaling. In my pen life Sailors have their place but aren't used nearly as often as my Pilots. My dream would be to have Pilot and Sailor do a collaboration with Pilot nibs and Sailor body and beautiful color choices. Sailor wins hands down in the beautiful color and body design in my opinion. 🙃 Great video!
@@VladimirRobespierre It also depends what Pilot and Sailor product nib range we are talking about. Sailor's 21k nibs will be broader than their 14k and steel nibs. Pilot #5 nibs a bit broader than the #10s which will be a bit broader than the #15s. I would expect a Pilot #5 to be as broad than a 21k by Sailor.
Great comparison, I’m also more on the pilot side and I agree that they are amongst the smoothest for Japanese style nibs, I also own a few sailor including a Pro Gear Realo in Medium and it’s also rather smooth, but on 1911s fine and medium-fine are more feedbacky than pilot. To me pilot is much bouncier but sailor is still a great brand, maybe being stiffer they are better if you want a lot of control. Small note, the 823 nib size is 15 and not 10, the 912 has a 10 size. Tip: a two digits number 74, 92. Takes a size 5, a three digits ending with 2, 742, 912 takes a 10, and ending with a 3 like 743 or 823 takes a 15, exception 845 also takes a 15.
Smoothness is subjective not objective measure. Smooth is not necessary better. I have £5 pens that are smoother than any of my Montblancs. And all are less smooth than a Zebra ballpoint I have.
@@alexmood6407 That's a good point, indeed there is subjectivity and I guess is a function of many objective variables as well as subjective ones. Nib size, nib material, ink, paper, feed material, wetness, ways to hold the pens are probably amongst the more objective aspects, and perception and feeling are very subjective aspects. So nothing absolute in my comment, only my own observations over my own experience.
@@alexmood6407This is not true. Smoothness is indeed objective. You can feel it, experience it, and compare it. "Better" is subjective based on preferential variables.
Pilot fans who like that "shock absorber" effect in the nib might consider Pilot's "Soft Fine" or "Soft Medium" options, available on certain pens -- I have the SM nibs on a Custom 74 and a 743. Not true "flex" nibs, but they provide more "bounce" and greater line variation than the regular nibs. Technically I think they are only sold in Japan, but not hard to get online.
I think what you're trying to describe with the Pilot nibs is called “bounce.” I've experienced it with the Vanishing Point and the Custom 74, both with Medium nibs.
I never understood the “bounce” or “shock absorber” analogy until I got my Pilot VP. Though a small nib, it definitely helps grasp the concept. I think both explanations or expressions are very accurate as the to feel of writing with a pen that does it.
I can never understand people who find Sailor nibs smooth. I’ve tried F, MF, M in 14k and 21k and I find Sailor nibs scratchy unless you hold them at exactly the sweet spot. They are designed for Japanese characters, and the most common strokes like left down and short strokes. Works better for printed letters than cursive. But I still like them because they feel different to any other nib. One can only try this many Bock, JoWo or modern stiff Montblanc or Parker nibs without getting bored.
@@zveryok1 it is to do with the nib shape. Under magnification you can see the shape that is not rund but has a flat foot and edges. I find sailor nib has a sweet spot that is smooth but any rotation will make it scratchy. But I haven’t tried their broad nib
From my experience with Pilot fountain pens, their M nib is really medium, but F suddently goes crazy to an EF for me. And for some unexplainable reason, I bought most of my Pilot pens in fine (my brain must have some issues). But luckly they are still usable, I just need to get use to them. Thanks for the video, best regards.
@@bitteralmonds666 I think that really depends what You are writing and how. Like for me, I use 9mm lined paper, EF and some fine Fine make my hand tired (due to not smooth enough of the nib and my hand need to cover longer distance/more movement). I like to use M for my daily writing on that paper. But when I practice handwriting, I like Fine just because the M nib lines crowd together. But these are just my experience. Best regards.
I'm an avid Pilot and Sailor fan. I have 823s and 845s in F and M like you and love them. I find that the jump from F to M in pilot is almost too big though, which is something that you allude to in your video. For me, the Sailor FM is the absolute sweet spot in terms of my preferred nib size and I have a 1911 Large and Pro Gear with that nib. They definitely have a lot more feedback, to the point of being audible when you write but the perfect line width more than makes up for that. Never ventured in the jumbo nibs that are available for both brands in the Custom Urushi and King of Pen. Wish Pilot made a 0.4mm nib which is apparently what the Sailor FM is. There is a chart on Pen Chalet.
Pilot do make in-between-sized nibs and they also make them in soft versions; maybe they still don't sell them in the US market though. You'd probably like the Pilot FM or SF nibs, based on your preference for Sailor's FM line width
The chart in Pen chalet doesn't tell what nibs it is precisely "charting" though. There is variation in Pilot nibs from the #5 to the #15, as well in Sailor's from steel to 21k gold.
I love both pilot and sailor nibs, and overall the pilots are a tad more smooth - then I bought my King of Pen, and...yeah....that's the absolute winner for me
@@arapaimagold8088 Custom 74 has a #5 nib; 912, 742 has #10 nib, 823 and 743 have #15 14k gold; Urushi 845 has #15 18k gold, and Urishi (not to be confused with 845 Urushi) has a #30 18k gold nib. This was for Pilot. Namiki Yukari Royale has #20 18k nib, and the Emperor has a #50 18k nib.
Thank you! These videos are so helpful for a beginner aspiring pen collector! For future videos, I don't think I see anything comparing Sailor gold nib pens to Platinum 3776's! I would love to see how you think the two categories compare, since they both seem to be stiffer gold nib models. Thank you!
I have found the Sailor nibs are a bit softer than the Platinum nibs, but have a smaller sweet spot. The Platinum feels similar to a pencil in a way. Overall I prefer Platinum nibs.
I've just been reinking my Pilot 912 Neoclassic brown and I noticed that it looks uncannily like your Pro Gear Walnut brown; I'd need to see them side by side to be sure, but the colour, translucency and trim colours and ring positions are really similar AFAICT. Obviously the body size, 14k vs 21k nib and converters are different though.
Yes they are both different personalities, but I also notice a difference in Sailor 14k v21k. I have a sailor 1911L with a 21k Music nib and a 1911S with a broad 14k. The difference I have found is that the 21k has that softer feel and is sufficiently broad enough to have a line variation as well as being juicy. The Broad 14k is hard and in my view not sufficiently broad enough, even though I know its Japanese.It is also a lot dryer. I love these pens and their differences.
Pilot Vanishing Point gold nibs are excellent, but missing here. Re gold nibs: From a comment in The Fountain Pen Network: The Japanese big three had a 'carat' war in the 1970's. Sailor eventually won with 23k nibs. You can find 22k Platinum nibs and 21k-22k Pilot nibs. Pilot and Platinum stopped making these high carat nibs but Sailor did not. Danitrio [not a Japanese company, but uses Japanese techniques] uses 24k #50 nibs on their Yokozuna series pens. These nibs are made in Japan unlike the Bock made nibs in their other pens.
Generally speaking, Japanese nibs are made to "build" Kanjis, that is why they are more on the "finer" side than Europeans, which are made to write cursive. So because "their use" is very different, so is the feedback Japanese nibs give to the writer.
I am hesitant whether to like or not like bounce. I like the pen to glide, but not splay. I like a consistent line if that explains it, so bouncy without flex for me Also, I cannot tolerate light as a feather touch, I have to feel the pen tense up in downstrokes and spring back under its own weight in upstrokes.
The only Sailor pens I own are fude nibs. I don’t think I’ve seen Sailor equivalents to Pilot Penmanship, Pilot Kakuno, and Platinum Preppy EFs or Pilot Plumix stub nibs🖋🤔🧐
Thank you for making this comparison. I find it interesting that you described the Pilot as smooth and the Sailor as stiff. My description would have been the other way around. When compared to Pelikan or Parker nibs, I found the M nibs of my Pilot 92 and 912 to be very rigid. They are "smooth" in the sense that they are well polished and do not have the sharp edges a Montblanc pen has but their ink flow is so low that it affects the colour of the ink e.g. a thin black can become grey at times. My Sailor 1911 on the other hand has a much stronger ink flow which allows the nib to glide and the pen can write on paper where the Pilots give up e.g. legal pads, copier paper. The nib itself may be stiffer but I would describe the Sailor writing experience as much more fluent than that of the Pilots.
I totally agree with you that Pilot pens feel very smooth and glide across paper which I like but on very smooth paper they can be a bit slippy/less sure footed, particularly with small writing, such as with Hobonichi planners. Sailor pens are more beautiful and have far more colour variations and body designs. Their nibs are finer in my experience and pretty stiff, although their broads feel less so and are very wet in a nice way and great with Sailor chroma shading inks. They do have feedback ie. Seem to grip the paper better and make a little pencil like noise. My medium fine sailor is perfect for using in my Hobonichi planners small squares and gives a more controllable writing experience when writing small on very smooth/slippery paper. Pilot ans Sailor pens, in my experience, are wonderful but have slightly different strengths and weaknesses.
Our host uses car suspension analogies only for Pilots. In fact, it could be extended to Sailor saying they feel like stiff-suspension cars. Which are less comfortable to ride, but give superior handling if one wants to drive fast. Neither is superior in general; each is for a certain kind of use, and user.
Great video! Speaking for myself, my Pilots tend to have less feedback than my Sailors, but both have excellent nibs and both offer a satisfying writing experience. And the fine nib on my Custom 823 writes like an extra-fine or even an extra-extra fine. It's amazingly smooth and wet but it puts down one fine line, let me tell you. I like the pens in both lines a lot but I must like the Pilot line better because I own more of them. Thanks again for the video!
Pilot: supple, forgiving, cushioning, yielding. Sailor: rigid, stiff, firm, stiff. With both being smooth and beautiful. This is a very helpful review.
14K vs. 21 K -- All things being the same, they would probably feel different, BUT -- all things are never then same. There are much more important differences that determine (for instance) soft vs. hard nibs.
Funny enough, I have the same imbalance in my nibs: more Pilot, but definitely more Platinum. I do really enjoy the Sailor Zoom nib. Other of their nibs don't do much for me. I honestly enjoy Platinum nibs because of the feedback. And their soft fine is wonderful! But the Pilot fine is much nicer than the Platinum fine. The Sailor Broad did absolutely nothing for me, and I didn't like the Sailor Music nib: too picky about orientation.
Thanks, enjoyed that. I have a pilot 74 m, and a pilot falcon and I like them both. I like the softness of the nibs and the reliability. I have a sailor progear small (aka Sapporo) in fine and a 1911 with a m naginata togi. Very different, both great and super reliable. The fine sailor is ‘precise’. Idea: how does the Lamy 2000 compare to others in its price range as a daily writer? There are German, Italian, Japanese and others to compare to.
Love the Compass so much more than the Metropolitan, having owned a few of both. It has such a great precision and feedback on the page. That nib - which they have in the Lecoule also - *really* grew on me and it performs flawlessly.
Pilot gold nibs seem to be ground for smooth and safe for occasional bouncy pressure writing, I have E95S, Custom 74, and Capless/VP, except the EF, the Fine(and thicker should be, though I don't have one) nibs have flatter sides that definitely tell you if you twist, but not much that it feels scratchy, like 'its the 'wrong' side but its okay I won't punish you with unpleasant scratchiness'. Sailor 21k seems exceptionally picky with stroke direction-pressure on the other hand, if you can pull a long line or continuous figure 8 without scratching(this is done by not rotating the wrist, the writing muscle moves to forearm-arm), that is how the nib shape likes to write, that even it can allow some pressure that would otherwise scrapes the paper unpleasantly. Sailor 14k would be more direct in telling the 'wrong' side of the feedback because its much stiffer. Strangely, the premium steel offering from Sailor(like Procolor 500/Shikiori), feels less daring and tuned smoother instead, while keeping the Sailor feedback shtick intact as for Platinum Century or even Platinum vintage gold nib pocket pen, they just have grippy writing experience, without quirky shape character like Sailor does. for the experienced though, even Pilot gold fine nibs have a little grip actually! compared to their steel offerings which I can't help but despise for its slippery smooth
So with Sailor we have, from smoother and more elastic to harder: 21k, steel "high range" (Shikiori & Procolor), 14k? I only own a 21k F, so I am asking for confirmation here.
@@ikarugaxx3749 I got large 21k F too, the large 21k F doesn't seem to utilize much of the 21k's material and size, for the most enjoyable experience, in my experience. sure it bounces like 21k M that I have, but it reaches its toothy feedback feeling almost as immediate as the 14k F. I suspect that EF 21k would only be an unpleasant trap to those who think they'll get more 'flex' out of smaller tipping. however toothy these nibs can be, probably its pale in comparison to an extra soft fine Nakaya nib I tried(maximum toothiness right there), so... they seem to all have their quirks across nib sizes and types, eras not all that important, as I now collected up to a 30s vintage Waterman smooth flexer, and soft 60s-80s nibs. your best bet for soft and smooth 21k Sailor would likely be a music nib or custom ground stubs, because material wise, the 21k large nib does feel close to vintage soft, not flex though.
@@ikarugaxx3749 Its strange, but they can feel toothier the softer they go. the meaning 'smooth' according to some Japanese sense of it, is one that you enjoy to write the most without feeling distracted, and it can be toothy, feedbacky. as someone who buys Japanese fountain pens to write Japanese, those toothiness are definitely added functional value; slippery, rounded/flat -feeling smoothness is in less favor the finer you go. though, 'Japanese Fine' and finer gets very unique between era, model, and material, even within the same manufacturer.
Thanks much. Interesting and useful. And although it really isn't part of what you were reviewing, I love that color on the Custom 74. Does that shade have a name, or is it just good old "blue?"
I would call Pilot gold nibs “bouncy”, “smooth” or “soft” but not quite like a platinum soft nib or even a Pilot soft or Falcon. It just feels like a softer nib than Platinum or Sailor. I can’t speak much on European gold nibs, but I’ve heard that Pelikan gold nibs are supposed to smooth and sorta “soft” too.
Pelikan high-range nibs match Sailor's 21k and Pilot's best nibs for quality. But if you start where prices are moderate, with Pelikan you get the pen body and no nib, while with the Japanese you get a cheap body and an expensive-pen grade nib. I much prefer the Japanese approach to not-so-expensive pens than the European.
It's rather unfortunate that I enjoy the look of the pens in the order of Sailor>Platinum>Pilot, but I like the writing experience in reverse. Sailor makes a gorgeous green and gold "manleaf" pen that I can find for $80. Platinum makes a Laurel Green Century that looks fantastic (although a bit pudgy) for about $120, and Pilot has a rather plain green Custom 74 with an odd looking clip. Even the cheap Pilot and Platinum pens I have write extremely smoothly, so I know they can only get better, but my western pens of the dark green flavor (Namisu Ixion, Franklin-Christoph 02 Intrinsic Emerald, Lamy Aion Dark Green, The Good Blue 130 British Racing Green) obliterate their Japanese counterparts in design.
I am Japanese enjoyed this video I like sailor fountain pens Japanese is originally a language written vertically. This may be the reason why I like the Sailor Fountain Pen.
The only thing that always stops me from buying a Sailor KOP is convertor, for me lack of piston/vacuum/eye dropper makes a pen a bit too "digital" for me. Not sure it makes sense.
Wait...you have two 823s as well? Besides the nub response - I much prefer Pilot overall - the only Sailor I'd seriously considered in the past was the Rialo...until I discovered the paltry capacity for a piston filler. My 823s are M and F. I prefer the term *responsive* when describing their nibs, which is entirely discrete from feedback, and the word "bounce" sounds too close a synonym to flex.(For the record, the only Pilot I didn't get on with is a clear Custom 74 with a B nib, which I used exactly once, then put back in the box, and should actually get around to selling shortly...I just don't dig B nibs.)
you dont know what your are talking about , if you say that the 14 k sailor is the same as 21 k sailor then you dont know what your talking about. and this comparison between a 14 pilot and a 21 sailor they are different pressure setting on them , lost my interest the moment you made that statement , i am offended
My way to describe would be that writing with a Pilot is smooth and buttery, the broads are great for shading inks. The Sailors have a nib to paper tactile feel not scratchy but toothy, great for smaller handwriting and journaling. In my pen life Sailors have their place but aren't used nearly as often as my Pilots. My dream would be to have Pilot and Sailor do a collaboration with Pilot nibs and Sailor body and beautiful color choices. Sailor wins hands down in the beautiful color and body design in my opinion. 🙃 Great video!
Which one is thinner between sailor ef and pilot ef?
@@VladimirRobespierre It also depends what Pilot and Sailor product nib range we are talking about. Sailor's 21k nibs will be broader than their 14k and steel nibs.
Pilot #5 nibs a bit broader than the #10s which will be a bit broader than the #15s.
I would expect a Pilot #5 to be as broad than a 21k by Sailor.
The way I put it is Sailor tiptoes across the page and Pilot glides. I hope this helps.
Thanks!
Great comparison, I’m also more on the pilot side and I agree that they are amongst the smoothest for Japanese style nibs, I also own a few sailor including a Pro Gear Realo in Medium and it’s also rather smooth, but on 1911s fine and medium-fine are more feedbacky than pilot. To me pilot is much bouncier but sailor is still a great brand, maybe being stiffer they are better if you want a lot of control.
Small note, the 823 nib size is 15 and not 10, the 912 has a 10 size. Tip: a two digits number 74, 92. Takes a size 5, a three digits ending with 2, 742, 912 takes a 10, and ending with a 3 like 743 or 823 takes a 15, exception 845 also takes a 15.
Smoothness is subjective not objective measure. Smooth is not necessary better. I have £5 pens that are smoother than any of my Montblancs. And all are less smooth than a Zebra ballpoint I have.
@@alexmood6407 That's a good point, indeed there is subjectivity and I guess is a function of many objective variables as well as subjective ones. Nib size, nib material, ink, paper, feed material, wetness, ways to hold the pens are probably amongst the more objective aspects, and perception and feeling are very subjective aspects. So nothing absolute in my comment, only my own observations over my own experience.
Pilot makes the best EF and F stub nibs I’ve ever written with 🖋🧐🤔
agreed. pilot 823 has a 15 nib
@@alexmood6407This is not true. Smoothness is indeed objective. You can feel it, experience it, and compare it. "Better" is subjective based on preferential variables.
I love Japanese Fine nibs. Sailor Fine nibs can have more feedback than Pilot. Sailor can feel very much like a pencil.
Pilot fans who like that "shock absorber" effect in the nib might consider Pilot's "Soft Fine" or "Soft Medium" options, available on certain pens -- I have the SM nibs on a Custom 74 and a 743. Not true "flex" nibs, but they provide more "bounce" and greater line variation than the regular nibs. Technically I think they are only sold in Japan, but not hard to get online.
I think what you're trying to describe with the Pilot nibs is called “bounce.” I've experienced it with the Vanishing Point and the Custom 74, both with Medium nibs.
I'd say bouncy would be a good description
I never understood the “bounce” or “shock absorber” analogy until I got my Pilot VP. Though a small nib, it definitely helps grasp the concept. I think both explanations or expressions are very accurate as the to feel of writing with a pen that does it.
I can never understand people who find Sailor nibs smooth. I’ve tried F, MF, M in 14k and 21k and I find Sailor nibs scratchy unless you hold them at exactly the sweet spot. They are designed for Japanese characters, and the most common strokes like left down and short strokes. Works better for printed letters than cursive. But I still like them because they feel different to any other nib. One can only try this many Bock, JoWo or modern stiff Montblanc or Parker nibs without getting bored.
Interestingly enough, I recently picked up a Sailor Profit Light in bold and this is a gusher and is utterly smooth. No feedback whatsoever.
@@zveryok1 it is to do with the nib shape. Under magnification you can see the shape that is not rund but has a flat foot and edges. I find sailor nib has a sweet spot that is smooth but any rotation will make it scratchy. But I haven’t tried their broad nib
@@zveryok1 Of course nibs in the B size are always smooth.
From my experience with Pilot fountain pens, their M nib is really medium, but F suddently goes crazy to an EF for me. And for some unexplainable reason, I bought most of my Pilot pens in fine (my brain must have some issues). But luckly they are still usable, I just need to get use to them. Thanks for the video, best regards.
Pilot EFs are the perfect nibs 🖋🧐🤔
The only Pilot F I use are in stub form 🖋🤔🧐
@@bitteralmonds666 I think that really depends what You are writing and how. Like for me, I use 9mm lined paper, EF and some fine Fine make my hand tired (due to not smooth enough of the nib and my hand need to cover longer distance/more movement). I like to use M for my daily writing on that paper. But when I practice handwriting, I like Fine just because the M nib lines crowd together. But these are just my experience. Best regards.
I'm an avid Pilot and Sailor fan. I have 823s and 845s in F and M like you and love them. I find that the jump from F to M in pilot is almost too big though, which is something that you allude to in your video. For me, the Sailor FM is the absolute sweet spot in terms of my preferred nib size and I have a 1911 Large and Pro Gear with that nib. They definitely have a lot more feedback, to the point of being audible when you write but the perfect line width more than makes up for that. Never ventured in the jumbo nibs that are available for both brands in the Custom Urushi and King of Pen. Wish Pilot made a 0.4mm nib which is apparently what the Sailor FM is. There is a chart on Pen Chalet.
Pilot do make in-between-sized nibs and they also make them in soft versions; maybe they still don't sell them in the US market though. You'd probably like the Pilot FM or SF nibs, based on your preference for Sailor's FM line width
@@gazzar67 Thanks for the heads up! I'll definitely check those out.
The chart in Pen chalet doesn't tell what nibs it is precisely "charting" though. There is variation in Pilot nibs from the #5 to the #15, as well in Sailor's from steel to 21k gold.
I love both pilot and sailor nibs, and overall the pilots are a tad more smooth - then I bought my King of Pen, and...yeah....that's the absolute winner for me
The pilot 14k M nibs feel bouncy/ soft to me and over-polished, rubbery on the page. They also bring shading out in the ink, I agree.
Yes, they’re kind of mushy and spongy to me too.
Is it same nibs like what they use on Urushi pen?
@@arapaimagold8088 Custom 74 has a #5 nib; 912, 742 has #10 nib, 823 and 743 have #15 14k gold; Urushi 845 has #15 18k gold, and Urishi (not to be confused with 845 Urushi) has a #30 18k gold nib. This was for Pilot. Namiki Yukari Royale has #20 18k nib, and the Emperor has a #50 18k nib.
Thank you! These videos are so helpful for a beginner aspiring pen collector! For future videos, I don't think I see anything comparing Sailor gold nib pens to Platinum 3776's! I would love to see how you think the two categories compare, since they both seem to be stiffer gold nib models. Thank you!
I have found the Sailor nibs are a bit softer than the Platinum nibs, but have a smaller sweet spot. The Platinum feels similar to a pencil in a way. Overall I prefer Platinum nibs.
I've just been reinking my Pilot 912 Neoclassic brown and I noticed that it looks uncannily like your Pro Gear Walnut brown; I'd need to see them side by side to be sure, but the colour, translucency and trim colours and ring positions are really similar AFAICT. Obviously the body size, 14k vs 21k nib and converters are different though.
Yes they are both different personalities, but I also notice a difference in Sailor 14k v21k. I have a sailor 1911L with a 21k Music nib and a 1911S with a broad 14k. The difference I have found is that the 21k has that softer feel and is sufficiently broad enough to have a line variation as well as being juicy. The Broad 14k is hard and in my view not sufficiently broad enough, even though I know its Japanese.It is also a lot dryer. I love these pens and their differences.
They do that to provide customers, and fans, with a range of "characters" within their product range, even in the nominally same nib size.
Pilot Vanishing Point gold nibs are excellent, but missing here. Re gold nibs:
From a comment in The Fountain Pen Network: The Japanese big three had a 'carat' war in the 1970's. Sailor eventually won with 23k nibs. You can find 22k Platinum nibs and 21k-22k Pilot nibs. Pilot and Platinum stopped making these high carat nibs but Sailor did not.
Danitrio [not a Japanese company, but uses Japanese techniques] uses 24k #50 nibs on their Yokozuna series pens. These nibs are made in Japan unlike the Bock made nibs in their other pens.
Generally speaking, Japanese nibs are made to "build" Kanjis, that is why they are more on the "finer" side than Europeans, which are made to write cursive. So because "their use" is very different, so is the feedback Japanese nibs give to the writer.
Sailor Pro Gear and 1911L are my favorite pens! ❤. But the Pilots are also stunning
😊
I am hesitant whether to like or not like bounce. I like the pen to glide, but not splay. I like a consistent line if that explains it, so bouncy without flex for me
Also, I cannot tolerate light as a feather touch, I have to feel the pen tense up in downstrokes and spring back under its own weight in upstrokes.
The only Sailor pens I own are fude nibs. I don’t think I’ve seen Sailor equivalents to Pilot Penmanship, Pilot Kakuno, and Platinum Preppy EFs or Pilot Plumix stub nibs🖋🤔🧐
Love the comparison and love your content
An interesting comparison. Just a shame you only had one Sailor in the line up right now. I wonder if a comparison with Platinum would be instructive?
I’ll put it on the list!
Thank you for making this comparison. I find it interesting that you described the Pilot as smooth and the Sailor as stiff. My description would have been the other way around. When compared to Pelikan or Parker nibs, I found the M nibs of my Pilot 92 and 912 to be very rigid. They are "smooth" in the sense that they are well polished and do not have the sharp edges a Montblanc pen has but their ink flow is so low that it affects the colour of the ink e.g. a thin black can become grey at times. My Sailor 1911 on the other hand has a much stronger ink flow which allows the nib to glide and the pen can write on paper where the Pilots give up e.g. legal pads, copier paper. The nib itself may be stiffer but I would describe the Sailor writing experience as much more fluent than that of the Pilots.
The Sailor 1911 King of Pen is the best nib I've ever used by a country mile.
I totally agree with you that Pilot pens feel very smooth and glide across paper which I like but on very smooth paper they can be a bit slippy/less sure footed, particularly with small writing, such as with Hobonichi planners. Sailor pens are more beautiful and have far more colour variations and body designs. Their nibs are finer in my experience and pretty stiff, although their broads feel less so and are very wet in a nice way and great with Sailor chroma shading inks. They do have feedback ie. Seem to grip the paper better and make a little pencil like noise. My medium fine sailor is perfect for using in my Hobonichi planners small squares and gives a more controllable writing experience when writing small on very smooth/slippery paper. Pilot ans Sailor pens, in my experience, are wonderful but have slightly different strengths and weaknesses.
Our host uses car suspension analogies only for Pilots. In fact, it could be extended to Sailor saying they feel like stiff-suspension cars. Which are less comfortable to ride, but give superior handling if one wants to drive fast. Neither is superior in general; each is for a certain kind of use, and user.
@@ikarugaxx3749 good analogy
Great video! Speaking for myself, my Pilots tend to have less feedback than my Sailors, but both have excellent nibs and both offer a satisfying writing experience. And the fine nib on my Custom 823 writes like an extra-fine or even an extra-extra fine. It's amazingly smooth and wet but it puts down one fine line, let me tell you. I like the pens in both lines a lot but I must like the Pilot line better because I own more of them. Thanks again for the video!
Have you used a vanishing point? If so how does that nib compare to other pilot gold nibs?
More fashionable and comfortable to retract and prevent from drying. Less suited to calligraphy or more expert & refined writing.
Are sailor pens worth the price??
Bcz the body is just acrylic plastic(pms resin).
Also does the 21k nibs loose their sheen over time??
12:18
So it's not just with cars that second-hand purchases come with risk. Fountains pens are the same... :D.
Pilot: supple, forgiving, cushioning, yielding. Sailor: rigid, stiff, firm, stiff. With both being smooth and beautiful. This is a very helpful review.
14K vs. 21 K -- All things being the same, they would probably feel different, BUT -- all things are never then same. There are much more important differences that determine (for instance) soft vs. hard nibs.
Funny enough, I have the same imbalance in my nibs: more Pilot, but definitely more Platinum. I do really enjoy the Sailor Zoom nib. Other of their nibs don't do much for me. I honestly enjoy Platinum nibs because of the feedback. And their soft fine is wonderful! But the Pilot fine is much nicer than the Platinum fine. The Sailor Broad did absolutely nothing for me, and I didn't like the Sailor Music nib: too picky about orientation.
Springy nib not flex is my way of describing bouncy :)
Thanks, enjoyed that. I have a pilot 74 m, and a pilot falcon and I like them both. I like the softness of the nibs and the reliability. I have a sailor progear small (aka Sapporo) in fine and a 1911 with a m naginata togi. Very different, both great and super reliable. The fine sailor is ‘precise’. Idea: how does the Lamy 2000 compare to others in its price range as a daily writer? There are German, Italian, Japanese and others to compare to.
Love the Compass so much more than the Metropolitan, having owned a few of both. It has such a great precision and feedback on the page. That nib - which they have in the Lecoule also - *really* grew on me and it performs flawlessly.
Pilot gold nibs seem to be ground for smooth and safe for occasional bouncy pressure writing, I have E95S, Custom 74, and Capless/VP, except the EF, the Fine(and thicker should be, though I don't have one) nibs have flatter sides that definitely tell you if you twist, but not much that it feels scratchy, like 'its the 'wrong' side but its okay I won't punish you with unpleasant scratchiness'. Sailor 21k seems exceptionally picky with stroke direction-pressure on the other hand, if you can pull a long line or continuous figure 8 without scratching(this is done by not rotating the wrist, the writing muscle moves to forearm-arm), that is how the nib shape likes to write, that even it can allow some pressure that would otherwise scrapes the paper unpleasantly. Sailor 14k would be more direct in telling the 'wrong' side of the feedback because its much stiffer. Strangely, the premium steel offering from Sailor(like Procolor 500/Shikiori), feels less daring and tuned smoother instead, while keeping the Sailor feedback shtick intact
as for Platinum Century or even Platinum vintage gold nib pocket pen, they just have grippy writing experience, without quirky shape character like Sailor does. for the experienced though, even Pilot gold fine nibs have a little grip actually! compared to their steel offerings which I can't help but despise for its slippery smooth
So with Sailor we have, from smoother and more elastic to harder: 21k, steel "high range" (Shikiori & Procolor), 14k? I only own a 21k F, so I am asking for confirmation here.
@@ikarugaxx3749 I got large 21k F too, the large 21k F doesn't seem to utilize much of the 21k's material and size, for the most enjoyable experience, in my experience. sure it bounces like 21k M that I have, but it reaches its toothy feedback feeling almost as immediate as the 14k F. I suspect that EF 21k would only be an unpleasant trap to those who think they'll get more 'flex' out of smaller tipping. however toothy these nibs can be, probably its pale in comparison to an extra soft fine Nakaya nib I tried(maximum toothiness right there), so...
they seem to all have their quirks across nib sizes and types, eras not all that important, as I now collected up to a 30s vintage Waterman smooth flexer, and soft 60s-80s nibs. your best bet for soft and smooth 21k Sailor would likely be a music nib or custom ground stubs, because material wise, the 21k large nib does feel close to vintage soft, not flex though.
@@ikarugaxx3749 Its strange, but they can feel toothier the softer they go. the meaning 'smooth' according to some Japanese sense of it, is one that you enjoy to write the most without feeling distracted, and it can be toothy, feedbacky.
as someone who buys Japanese fountain pens to write Japanese, those toothiness are definitely added functional value; slippery, rounded/flat -feeling smoothness is in less favor the finer you go. though, 'Japanese Fine' and finer gets very unique between era, model, and material, even within the same manufacturer.
This has been really useful! Thank you!
Since you seem to be so rich in Pilot pens, perhaps you should, like, maybe give me one?
(This is a joke, I hope you enjoy your pens
Thanks much. Interesting and useful. And although it really isn't part of what you were reviewing, I love that color on the Custom 74. Does that shade have a name, or is it just good old "blue?"
Good old standard blue 👍🏻
I would call Pilot gold nibs “bouncy”, “smooth” or “soft” but not quite like a platinum soft nib or even a Pilot soft or Falcon. It just feels like a softer nib than Platinum or Sailor. I can’t speak much on European gold nibs, but I’ve heard that Pelikan gold nibs are supposed to smooth and sorta “soft” too.
Pelikan high-range nibs match Sailor's 21k and Pilot's best nibs for quality. But if you start where prices are moderate, with Pelikan you get the pen body and no nib, while with the Japanese you get a cheap body and an expensive-pen grade nib. I much prefer the Japanese approach to not-so-expensive pens than the European.
I thought the pilot 823 was a number 15 nib!
It's rather unfortunate that I enjoy the look of the pens in the order of Sailor>Platinum>Pilot, but I like the writing experience in reverse. Sailor makes a gorgeous green and gold "manleaf" pen that I can find for $80. Platinum makes a Laurel Green Century that looks fantastic (although a bit pudgy) for about $120, and Pilot has a rather plain green Custom 74 with an odd looking clip. Even the cheap Pilot and Platinum pens I have write extremely smoothly, so I know they can only get better, but my western pens of the dark green flavor (Namisu Ixion, Franklin-Christoph 02 Intrinsic Emerald, Lamy Aion Dark Green, The Good Blue 130 British Racing Green) obliterate their Japanese counterparts in design.
Fantastic vid - cheers!
I don't see the point of nail stiff gold nibs. When we want a nail stiff nib, save your money and get a great steel nib fountain pen.
I am Japanese enjoyed this video I like sailor fountain pens Japanese is originally a language written vertically. This may be the reason why I like the Sailor Fountain Pen.
Very good discussion. RS
The only thing that always stops me from buying a Sailor KOP is convertor, for me lack of piston/vacuum/eye dropper makes a pen a bit too "digital" for me. Not sure it makes sense.
Wait...you have two 823s as well?
Besides the nub response - I much prefer Pilot overall - the only Sailor I'd seriously considered in the past was the Rialo...until I discovered the paltry capacity for a piston filler. My 823s are M and F. I prefer the term *responsive* when describing their nibs, which is entirely discrete from feedback, and the word "bounce" sounds too close a synonym to flex.(For the record, the only Pilot I didn't get on with is a clear Custom 74 with a B nib, which I used exactly once, then put back in the box, and should actually get around to selling shortly...I just don't dig B nibs.)
Great help; thanx..
Smooth nibs are terrible if you want to do anything other than write cursive.
you dont know what your are talking about , if you say that the 14 k sailor is the same as 21 k sailor then you dont know what your talking about. and this comparison between a 14 pilot and a 21 sailor they are different pressure setting on them , lost my interest the moment you made that statement , i am offended