Storytime with DGM! Rich Reads from Fred Cohen's Blue Note Guide // $12,600 Blue Train Commentary
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- Опубликовано: 6 мар 2024
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Please note: At 2:24 I didn't mean to say that *any* record made from the original master lacquer will sound *exactly the same* as a first pressing. Lots can happen during the manufacturing processes that can make, for example, a W63 Blue Note and a '70s black "b" copy sound markedly different. I simply meant that *in my mind*, "original" is more so referring to the original mastering than anything else.
It is curious that the NY23 one side label is considered the only true original. As if Blue Note folks thought “good thing we have exactly 500 copies of label x and 500 copies of label y, so we can carefully mismatch them for this pressing.” The much more likely scenario is as you state, they are both original from the same initial run. The only thing that seems intentional here is to that one of the new labels was used in every situation. Wouldn’t there otherwise be an accidental pairing of two NY23 labels if it was purely random? Also, 19 people have recorded on discogs they have the mismatched label. Hardly an indication that a full pressing run of this album is out there. The Cooker OG has over 200.
From Fred Cohen, regarding this one record: "The New York 23 label had a very short shelf life, appearing on 1544-1559, 1561-1563, 1565, and 1576. It appears on either Side 1 or Side 2 of 1575 and 1577, but never been seen on both sides. Inasmuch as 1577 is clearly the demarcation point for the NY 23 label, it very rarely shows up. The fact that it is a rarity on a Coltrane LP only makes it all the more desirable. No one knows how many of these were pressed."
To clarify, NY 23 was a short run series that ended with Blue Train. Since it was a preceding series, that makes the copy of Blue Train in question the first pressing. Fred has West 63rd pressings of Blue Train, but doesn't expect them to bring the same insane sum at auction, as the NY 23 first pressing.
Always enjoy your perspectives and content. Thank you!
Very interesting. :)
I love the outro so very much
as always a great joy to listen to your videos. i read here some comments and there is perhaps an important detail on the "price" and "value" of these kind of LP´s : " the grading. ..... " ... as we LP jazz people know, that a 1960 LP can be VG with 250 dollar and a VG+ can be 500 dollar and than suddenly some "serious grading with vinyl in your hands", like sitting next to fred cohen with the LP and it looks and sounds NM and the cover is NM .. would be wow ! .... perhaps in 10 years no NM NM was ever sold in the www .... it could happen these days a buyer would say : i pay 3000-6000 easily, cause i have the best "sounding" and looking version. makes me happy. + is a value reason. ... perhaps that is sometimes a reason why a price gets really high. "same" LP in VG is much cheaper than the same in NM. well. sure it is ! ...... about fred´s book. i have many "first press" and "first press USA stereo". which is also a tricky saying about that ORIGINAL/FIRST PRESS naming, as you know. as stereo is officially not first press, if mono exists before. but "first stereo" exist. i have many blue note where after finally fred did the book, has minimal differences, which indicate some are not "first", where i always thought i have the "first". anyway. but i also have funny things like : BLUE NOTE LP 84197 with all the details from FRED´s book but a DEEP GROOVE on side one ! fred´s book says : no deep groove is the first press stereo. ... so PERHAPS in that case my LP is first press stereo, as it has DG on one side. as fred suggests in general it COULD be an indication. ... but .... who knows. ..... so the journey and fun with that record label goes on and on and on ........ all the best from berlin / germany
I am convinced that there are W 63rd NY 23 both sides out there, think about it, there are W 63rd - W 63rd NY23 side 1, W 63rd - W 63rd NY 23 side 2, so the NY 23 labels are there for side 1 & 2, its probably that they never come up fpr sale, so perhaps this winner has paid £12600.00 for a non 1st pressing.
sure was quite the auction closing price. I don't have the deep pockets to play in that arena but there are quite a few who do. Only have a few OG Blue Notes. Do have quite a few of the Japan pressings from King and Toshiba and almost all of the Music Matters, Classic and Tone Poet re-issues. Jazz is so much larger in Japan than in the US that King and Toshiba both regularly ran large pressing runs of 10K or more. Hence the titles are much easier to find over there. And the pressing quality from King and Toshiba is 2nd to none.
How do you quantify $12,600 worth of listening pleasure ? $100 is my limit for any record.
For $100, you'll get to "hear the air in the room." (LOL)
I think that many people who spend this much on individual records do it for more than one reason. It is possible that the entity that purchased the record will play it only once, or maybe never, in order to preserve the integrity of this artifact. These items can be collected to preserve purchasing power over time while enjoying the hobby simultaneously. I think that most of us regular folks really have a hard time understanding the perspective of someone for whom money is not an issue at all. There are people out there to whom $12k is the equivalent of $100 to most. Would you pay $100 for this record? I would.
@@danijelsan81 I do it with cds. I have 80,000. I collect rare soul cd singles, UK and Japan imports, and out of print jazz titles and pay $20-500 for some rare ones. Occasionally I pick up a $3-10 item but not that often.
Some music like Elvis, Ricky Nelson, and Charlie Parker 78's have actually declined in value as trends come in and go out. It will never be worth nothing.
For me the issue is that I felt the most comfort in my teen years and even younger than that listening to the radio. I want everything they played and want to seek out stuff I don't know about in a similar style. By the time I was 17, my interest in current styles waned and by 22, I wasn't listening to currents but backtracked into earlier eras.
@@DorianPaige00 Ha! Yes, jazz collecting in general seems to be going in that direction, doesn't it
@@danijelsan81 I also wanted to add that, perhaps contrary to popular opinion, I have no problem with someone buying a vintage jazz record for thousands of dollars as a pure investment without any intention of playing it. There is no classic jazz album I like where I can't enjoy it in high fidelity somewhere, so it's not as if these wealthy "investor collectors" are depriving me or anyone else of the music, right?
In light of your comments we can say that the record was not worth 12 grand since I could buy the same record with the early no inc label for less than two grand
From a sonic perspective, no. But over the years it has become very clear to me that the big bucks get spent in this hobby more on the principle of rarity than sound quality. And I don't see anything wrong with that personally. Would you agree that the NY23 copies seem (much) rarer?
Nice to see a new video from you, @dgmono. ‘Always informative. (‘Love your outro by the way.)